Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Samuel L. Jackson

Episode Date: June 16, 2019

Samuel L. Jackson’s breakthrough in the cult classic “Pulp Fiction” came at the age of 45, after he had already lived a full life both professionally and personally. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist talks to the legendary actor about his prolific movie career since then and the road to becoming the most bankable star in Hollywood. He also opens up about his latest project – bringing the iconic role of “Shaft” back to the big screen.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. My guest this week, a Hollywood legend, Samuel L. Jackson. Did you know that Sam Jackson is the man, the actor, whose movies have grossed more at the box office in total than any other actor in the history of Hollywood? Something like $15 billion around the world his movies have made. A lot of that is owed to the franchise movies he's done, Star Wars, Jurassic Park. Marvel Cinematic Universe, but also because he's just a damn good actor, and he's been in a lot of good movies. Some of the big budget like those, others, of course, classics, like Pulp Fiction, which at the age of 45 for Sam Jackson, and this is 25 years ago in 1994, was the big breakthrough. He'd done some movies, of course, with Spike Lee before that, but it was Pulp Fiction that cemented him as a star, and by the way, about six months later, die hard with a vengeance came out, and that launched him as a box office star as well. something Bruce Willis told him would happen before it did. Sam Jackson tells that story,

as you'll hear in just a bit. Also a guy who's had, well, you know, 45 years old. There's a lot of life before that. And so he grew up in the segregated South in Chattanooga, Tennessee, came from a broken home. His grandparents raised him along with his aunt. He talks about the impact they had on his life and why he was steered into acting. His latest project is Shaft. Remember he did a Shaft movie about 19 years ago. Now he's back, reviving that role inspired, of course, by the original shaft of the 1970s, Mr. Richard Roundtree, who's appearing in this new version of the movie as well. A great conversation with a great guy. I'll paint the picture for you. We're in an empty Tribeca, New York Steakhouse, the two of us, Sam Jackson, in a blue suit and a matching blue

cangle wearing white sneakers. What I'm wearing is immaterial. This is all about Sam Jackson right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Sam, thanks for doing this. Oh, my pleasure. I know how busy you are. Beating the bushes for this movie, getting people to see it. I don't think that's going to be a problem. I told you, I just saw it.

It's funny. It has all that spirit of shaft in it from 1971, but it's been updated. And I think there's a new generation that's about to see Shaft for the first time, because your last one was almost 20 years ago. That's true. So what does that feel like to introduce this character to some people now who's been around for the rest of us for so long. I like to think that, you know, there's an audience that knows about it kind of in the back of their minds. They just didn't know that they did because

Isaac Kay's music is classic. It's kind of like when you hear that music, everybody almost knows what it is. It's kind of like, you know what the, oh, that's a shaft thing or something. And their parents have played it somewhere. Maybe they see one of the other films. Maybe they didn't see mine. Maybe they did see mine. But they have a kid like Jesse, that they identify with in a very real kind of way is going to help. And he's sort of the technological shaft to my analog shaft. Right, you are. Well, that's the funny thing.

Over those 20 years or even farther, almost 50 years, back to the original, he actually hasn't changed that much through the years. You know what I mean? I mean... Well, he's... Well, you're the... made specifically sure when they brought me in that Richard was that. Right, right, right.

Everybody would know that chapter is still here. Yes, but the linear. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of the legend. He is the original myth maker. He's the guy who was the sex machine for all the chicks that was cool.

They had the really great leather clothes and, you know, the friend for his brother man who had everybody's back. You know, he was that guy. But his spirit lives on in your character. Oh, his spirit lives in mine. So by the time I got to do mine and we had a minute, I was. able to be an angrier and kind of more aggressive shaft for the change of the century. Right.

You know, right. So I had more issues. And now this one, interestingly enough, was not around me. And his mom thought I was a little too dangerous. So she took him away from me, raised him in the suburbs, sent him to MIT, and now he's an FBI. But he needs my help. So when he comes back, I have to kind of show him. what it means to be a member of this particular family and what it means to the community in general.

And they try to drag you into the 21st century, your views of the world, things like that. And part of why I love the movie is because by the end you think there's going to be this moment where he sort of realizes his old ways and he's got to move for you with, no, right up until the closing credits in the movie, he's still shaft. Still look okay, man. They're drawing pictures on the wall. Yeah, that's right. So how do you decide when it's a good thing? time to go back to a project like that, like something you've done before. What was this the script, the director? Was it something that told you I want to do this now? I thought it was a

fresh take on what's been happening with Sha. Shaft's always been a thriller. And they're like gritty crime dramas. And when I was approached with it, they said they wanted to make a comedy. I was like, straight ahead comedy. I don't think I can sign off for that. And I said, what do you want it to be? I said, well, it needs to be an action comedy if there's got to be anything. You can have comedy, but you have to have an element of danger that's very real. That's authentic. So when an audience is watching it, they can laugh from time to time, but also know that, oh, my God, that this is toxic and crazy. So hopefully we managed to make that, you know, mix.

Oh, you did. You did. And those shootout scenes are no joke, and there are a lot of them. There's your action right there. Well, yeah. Well, you know, I'm a huge fan of bullet ballets. I started watching them with John Wu. That's a good euphemism. I like that.

Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned Richard Roundtree. This isn't exactly a cameo. He's got, like, a good, important part at the end. He's chunky. It takes all three of us to make this thing happen. What did he tell you the first time you came back to play Shaft, 19 or so years ago, about the character? What did you need to know about him?

I didn't need to know anything about him. I was really more concerned when I was doing mine about when it was going to be my. opportunity to be a sex machine for all the chicks. And John kept telling me, don't worry, it's going to happen. It's going to happen. When's it going to happen? And Richard was just laughing because as soon as they brought him on screen, they handed him two women.

And he walks in with the two of the best-looking women in the movie. Really? This is what we're doing? He's the sexy guy. I'm the angry guy. Okay, fine. Right. But no.

But he's the quiet. the storm, you know, and all kind of stuff. It's chaos on set. Richard's just sitting on the side, smoking the cigar, chilling, waiting on him to call his name. He doesn't get involved. He doesn't. He just walks in when it's his moment.

It's smooth. There you go. So what does it feel like for you on the eve of a movie? We're like three days right now from the release as we sit here talking. You've had so many big hits, so much success. Do you still get like nerves thinking about how people are going to react? It has nothing to do with me at this point. Right.

It has everything to do with how the people. are marketing the film. Yeah, I'm out here doing my part, but the marketing department has got to do their part. They got to convince people that, you know, they want to see it. I see the billboards. They're kind of nice, you know, being this big old billboards with three guys and these really nice coats. It's out of my hands. I've done everything I'm supposed to do. And hopefully, if people spend their money to go into the theater, they will see that I did my job and hopefully I'm entertaining them and I'm making them happen. I'm making them laugh. I'm making them smile. And I make them go, you know, so I do all the things that I had to do. And, you know, hopefully wish for the best that

it works out like most of the other films I've done that they're enjoyable. I like doing popcorn movies. Yeah. I have a, you know, a thing about going to the movies and leaving the world that we live in and not having to think about what's on the front page or the newspapers or who won the game that day. Just go in, lose yourself in this world for a little while. And laugh. cry, you know, have some fun and come out and say, wow, that was good. I want people smiling and having fun when they leave the movie or wake up the next day. I got some text from my friends the other day said they woke up the next day thinking about, man, I just thought about that scene in the movie.

I just busted out laughing. It's like, thank you because that's what you want. Sticks with them. That's what you want. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know this probably better than you'd like to know it by now, but you've had a lot of those successes where you have the time.

title now is the actor whose movies have made more than anyone in the history of Hollywood. It's like a lot of people. It's well, yeah, it's like $15 billion worldwide. Does that number mean anything to you? It means I did a lot of movies that people liked or a lot of people went to see the movie that I was in or I made a good choice of a franchise to stay part of that I enjoyed myself and I'm glad that a lot of people enjoyed them also. Nothing to do with you though? Come on. You were in all those movies. It's not just the franchise. Well, I was in on, you know, Star Wars is Star Wars. Yeah. Star Wars would have been Star Wars without me. You know, fortunately, I had an interesting part in it and I had a great character. That was great.

Jurassic Park was Jurassic Park or would have been Jurassic Park without me saying, hold on to your butts. You know, but hey, I said it. People say it. It's on the T-shirt. I own. it, you know. And being part of the Marvel universe, come on, you know, it's hard to beat that. And to be a character that has such a dominant place in the series in terms of who he is to those superheroes, a guy without powers who can wield so much power over those guys who do have powers and being able to inhabit it and embody it and embrace it in a real kind of way. And just love it. Those are the kind of things. that I dreamed about when I was a kid of being that superhero or a superhero or somebody

with Kate or somebody with some powers or somebody who could do this, that, the other, being fortunate enough to be in a franchise that has those kinds of characters in it and allows me to watch myself do things that I thought I would do when I was a kid. Even a movie like The Incredibles. In Frozen, it's awesome. Yes, it is. Can't beat it. So I've been very fortunate, and I understand that, and I know that that number, it means something, but there are a lot of other people who are in some of those movies.

They can add those same numbers to their names, too. Because as long as you're into credits, you can say that. Right. You know, so it's not like I was driving those films. I was in some films that were driven by a popular opinion that allowed a lot of people to come and see them. And I was fortunate enough to be there. All right. Well, you made them better.

How about that? I'll just give you that. I'll take that. You take that? Okay. All right. You talked about Marvel Cinematic Universe. I told you before we started talking that Brie Larson and I were talking about you. And man, she talks about you. I think she called you her Yoda. This wise man that always knew the answer, always knew the right thing to do, whose instincts were so good. I was reading something Scarlett Johansson said about you along those similar lines. Is that nice to hear that people you work with, these huge stars look up to you in such a way and so lean on you for advice? I'm probably the oldest guy there and I've done more movies and everybody else. Sure it does. I pride myself on my professionalism. Being there, being present for the other actors, being present for the crew in terms of my efficiency

and how I want to get the work done so that they don't have to be worked to death also. Hitting my mark, saying my line, knowing their lines, I can help them if they need it, understanding a setup. I approach a lot of movies from an audience member standpoint of what I want to see

or even films that I've watched and this situation has been in a film that I've seen and I liked it and I can tell you how to efficiently make that happen without doing eight different setups. So I try and do stuff like that. And a lot of times people take my advice.

because I've been around. And, you know, I get a little cranky sometimes. Oh, do you really? Yeah. When it's not moving efficiently. Yeah. And other people haven't come ready? Or when it's not fun.

It's kind of like, this is the place I come to have fun. This is my, this is my workspace. This is the space that I come to create. And in order to create, you've got to be free. You've got to be open and joy. It's like, you know, a writer facing the page every day or an artist facing a blank canvas, you know, Except in my case, when I come to set, I generally seen the scene that we're going to shoot in my head already.

And sometimes I'll ask the director if they've seen the scene and they look at you like, uh-oh, don't get bad day. So does a director ever feel like Sam might understand this movie better than I do at this point? I think there are a couple who have. How do they feel about that? They're okay with it. Well, I make their job easier. You know, I mean, I'll come in and they'll start talking about it.

about a setup and I'm going, you don't really need to do that. All you need to do is this, this and this. You move the story alarm because you've got to get to this next thing. This is talking about that. So don't waste a whole bunch of time doing it. Turns out we should have your name on the director title as well on half these movies. Too much work, because then I got to go somewhere and sit in the room and watch them cut the movie every day.

And I got to talk to some people about music. And I could do three more movies by that. And you will. You always will be working on your great. grip on your t-shot too. There's a lot of stuff you'd rather be doing than that. I'm curious, Sam, just how this acting thing started for you, going back as a kid

in Chattanooga with your grandparents and your aunt. Who was the first person who told you acting as something worth trying? It's something to do. How did you find... Nobody told me that. You found it yourself? Well, I kind of figured that out, but

what happened actually was my aunt Edna, who lived in the house with us, was a fourth grade teacher was also a performing arts teacher. She taught dance classes and all this other stuff. So when they did pageants, plays, or any other thing, she never had enough boards. I lived in the house with her.

So she just put me in stuff. Before I was even in school, she was just making me do stuff. And I learned early on the appreciation for the, oh my God, you're so cute. Thank you. So you learned that. And that was probably where the seed was planted as I thought about it over the years or how I got here. And when she left, I still did plays to the point that the other teachers would say, well, you can't be in every play.

You have to let someone else try it. I'm like, nobody else is here. You know, so either I'm going to be in or I'm not. So I felt it. And when I got to college or where I got to high school, I kind of let that go. and I was in the band. So that was my performance outlet. And by the time I got to college and I took a public speaking class,

and the guy teaching the class offered us extra credit to do three-penny opera because he didn't have enough guys that auditioned. So I did it and I found myself like, this is the place I want to be. This is the one place that I found that makes me want to get up in the morning and go to class. The other classes were tedious and required. So that was the place I want to be. wanted to be. The theater turned out to be that spot, you know, that I was anxious to get to every day. It sounds like from reading and listening to other interviews you've done, that you

were an outgoing young man, like that you'd go with your grandfather to work and start chatting people up around the office. Were you that kind of kid? Very outgoing, happy? Yeah. I didn't talk a lot because I stuttered. So I would kind of mask it or try to mask the fact that I stuttered by not talking as much as, you know, most of the kids, because I try to talk too fast and I can, you know, that was caught up in that. But when I was with my grandfather at his job, he was always telling me lead those men alone. And, you know, they talked to me and I talked back to him. You know, I'd look at the stuff that they were doing, the real estate papers on the desk. And, you know, they were old redneck guys that referred to my grandfather's

boy or Ed, you know, he called him Mr. Whatever. And just watching that dynamic and being around him and listening to what he said about that dynamic after we, you know, left there and who those people were and what they did. Interesting kind of place to be, you know, I was talking about Chattanooga yesterday with somebody. Yeah, this East Tennessee, 1950s, 60s, and all that comes with that. All that comes with that. Yeah. Segregation, the signs.

Yeah. You know, where you can't go, where you can't go. Totally black education. Yeah. All the teachers I had taught my mom and their brothers. So they understood what the expectation was in my house of me getting out and going somewhere. So it never occurred to me that I was going to live and die in Chattanooga, Tennessee when I was growing up. You were getting out.

Well, according to what I read, saw on television or imagined in the movies, yeah, I was out of it. I was going to get on a pirate ship. and go hang out with Errol Flynn. Swing from ship to ship with a dagger in my mouth and sword in my hand. Well, you came pretty close to it. I got a lightsaber. I'm good. Yeah, right.

You got your version of that. It's sword. Well, one of the places you sailed away to was New York City in the 70s, right? To become an actor, a theater actor. Right. What were those early years as a struggling actor like when you were running around town with people like Denzel and Wesley Snipes and young guys trying to make it? Delightful.

You know, that was a huge legion of us that were out here in the streets and doing plays all over town. We worked at Henry Street, Frank Silvera Writers' Workshop, a Negro Ensemble Company, the public theater. You know, everybody was in something. Joe had a black Hispanic Shakespeare company at the time, so a lot of people working there. My wife got here. She immediately became a color girl. She was in the national company of color girls. they were touring all over the place.

So there was a lot of people working, and we were doing stuff, and we went to the same auditions. So we would meet each other at auditions. Where are you going next? Oh, yeah, I got that audition. We walked together to do that. But the artistic community was nurturing and very vibrant. And the fact that we could tangibly see,

it's like when we were doing soldiers play, and Denzel left and started doing St. Elsewhere, and then he ended up doing carbon copy and became a movie star. And I was like, okay, so Dengel's gone. And I was doing Mother Courage. I was Morgan's understudy. Boom, Morgan was gone. He was doing street smart.

And then, you know, Fish Lees, and then Alphrey Lees, and Robert Christian Lees. So you know you're in the right place. It's just your time hadn't happened yet. Right. So being around that and being in it and learning the craft of acting, that by the time I was in the throes of my addiction, I was still, you know, doing pure surprise winning plays. I mean, I was at Yale doing, you know, piano lesson.

I was the first boy Willie in the piano lesson, first wolf in two trains running. So I was doing August Wilson plays with Lloyd Richards and learning those lessons. So by the time I was caught up in the throes of that, I had also lost sight of this because I was so, happy with what I was doing in the theater in terms of the kind of work, what I was exploring

through those characters, listening to the audience every night and the appreciation of what they did, pleasing somebody like Lloyd Richards and, you know, August, in terms of the characters that I'd created to be in their productions, that when this happened, I had just kind of, oh, what? Oh, really? All right, fine. But I was doing a movie for Spike every year. So it was like going to Spike Summer Camp. Right.

We do the right thing, school days. Jungle fever. No. Mobetter Blues. Right. And jungle fever. Right. So when Jungle fever happened,

when Spike called me about Jungle Fever, I was in rehab. So he was telling me, yeah. I want you to play like the Marvin Gay character, you know. I was just saying. I was just a drug addict, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay. I've done the research, so I'm ready. So by the time I came out of rehab and they were starting to shoot,

and the drug counselors were telling me I shouldn't do moving because I was playing a crack addict, you're going to have pipes, you're going to have lighters, and they're going to be triggers. Next thing you know, you're going to relapse. And I was like, if for no other reason, I will not relapse because I never want to see any of you ever again. So they were foremost in my mind. So by the time I got to set to start to work, I approached the craft service table.

The security guys who were through to Islam from the nation of Islam were running me away from the table because they thought I was like a neighborhood crackhead. Is that right? I didn't need makeup. I was already there. So by the time that happened and the film came out, I used to have this running joke with my agent where I would call her everything. and go Hollywood call and she goes, no, but you have an audition.

And so I called it one day, I had run into Spike, they were going to Cannes with Jungle Fever. And I was like, oh, so we're going to Cannes? He's like, no, just the stars. It's like, really? Okay, fine. And I went on with my life,

and they go along, and I call my agent and said, you know, Hollywood Call the Day, she said, as a matter of fact, they did. Seems as though they created some award for you at the Cannes Film Festival for Jungle Fever. And I don't know what, they don't give

supporting actor awards. They created one for you. Like, oh, okay, fine. So do I have to go? No. But they do want to see you in Hollywood for this movie and you got a meeting with these people.

Oh, wow. So I get that job and I go and Spike's getting ready to shoot Malcolm X. And these people hire me to do white sands. And they offer me more money than I made probably in the last 10 years. and Spike calls about Malcolm X-Lex, I'm going to do this movie now. I'm sorry. And we kind of fall out behind that. But that's when, you know, things started to click over.

Because while I was doing White Sands, I ended up going back to L.A. to interview with Harrison Ford for Patriot Games. Right. They were doing, this was the first time I'd ever heard of cast approval. Harrison had cast approval. So because I was going to be this guy who was with him all the time, and they wanted to see what kind of relationship I would have with him or if I ate with a knife and fork or whatever.

It was crazy. So I went to Hollywood to do that, and while I was there, I started talking to him about this friend of mine. He'd done a film with Bill Nunn. Bill Nunn was my college roommate. And I was going to give you and a friend of mine, Billy, did this movie together. That was it.

I was in. I was locked. So I did White Sands. Then I did Patriot Games. I got like a three-picture deal at Morgan Creek and that never worked out and another three-pitch deal at Paramount somewhere else but that didn't work out.

It's really amazing how jaded you get, how quickly you get dated. Right, right. You know, it's insane. You know, you go from getting 40, 50 grand to do six weeks of work and then somebody tells you, yeah, well, this next

movie we want you to do, you know, it's going to be 10 weeks but we only got like 150 grand. work 10 weeks 150 grand I hadn't heard my name and 150 grand the same sentence ever you know

but you know it happens really quick and he's crazy and he finally go snap out of it yeah right take that money so is it fair to say

Sam that jungle fever was like the big leap for you in terms of like okay Hollywood accepts me now they created a ward it can for me I don't know

they accepted me because interesting they liked you though interestingly enough a lot of people a lot of people really thought it's like my aunt

had this friend and I was staying in her house and she had just seen Jungle Fever her friend was there she'd just seen Jungle Fever and she was telling my aunt about the movie and about this crackhead that Spike Lee had found to do his movie but you know the movie's over now so he's back on the streets and he's homeless and smoking crack and I came out of the back of the house like hi and she's like oh my God it's him

and my aunt was like yes it's my nephew Sam he's not back on the street That's incredible. Yeah, so why did I say that? Well, we were just talking about that was the transition. Yeah. All right. So, yes, that happened.

And I was doing, by the time I got Diehardt was when Pulp Fiction was getting ready to come out. Yeah. So we're shooting Die Hard when Pulp Fiction starts to get some buzz here and there. So Bruce and I go to Cannes and watch Pulp Fixing and Pulp Fiction wins. and everybody, you know, like all up in the air, Bruce was like, yeah, the movie's good, but this movie's going to change your life. It's like, really? It's like, yeah.

Believe me, when this movie comes out, your life will never be the same. And he was right, because when Die Hard came out, it was the highest grocery movie worldwide that year, and it turned me into an international figure. Now, as popular as Pope Fiction was, they still couldn't show that movie in the UK and a bunch of other countries because of whatever the restrictions on. Right. So when die hard happened, I became an international figure. It was like the first time I got to go to Asia and walk around,

and I was asking the guy, so who are the popular black actors in Asian? You go, well, Asians generally know, no, they know Will Smith, Eddie Murphy, and who do you tell me? Denzel. I was like, really? He's like, yeah, that's pretty much it. So why are these people whispering? and smiling when I walked by them and pointing at me.

He was like, oh, I guess that'll change. They know who you are. It's like, yeah, I think so. So things started to change at that point, but Bruce was right. That hard changed the whole dynamic of everything. And is the story true, Sam, that you actually auditioned for Reservoir Dogs for Tarantino, didn't get the part, but he liked you enough that when Pulp Fiction was kind of picking up steam, he called you for that off that audition?

No? But I actually went in to audition. And I read with Quentin and Lawrence Bender, the producer, not knowing who they were. I just knew they were really terrible actors. And I left there thinking, I'm like, I didn't get this job. They suck. And I didn't. But I went to Sundance.

For some reason that year, I was at Sundance. And I went to the first greeting of Reservoir Dogs. And after it was over, I went up to Quentin to tell him how much I liked it and realized, oh, you're that dude. And he's like, yeah, how much. you like, yeah, who got your part? I'm like, what? You remember me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm writing something right now for you. I was like, oh, okay. Wow.

And sure enough, I went off, and two weeks later, I got the Pope Fiction script. I was in West Virginia shooting a PBS film, and the script came. And I thought, oh, he was right. So that was 25 years ago. The anniversary of the release is coming up this fall, 25 years. That would make it 26 or so then. Right. It was a year so prior to that.

Right, when you had that meeting. So the film came out 25 years ago. And just as a practical matter to your life, what did that mean? When Pulp Fiction came out, how did your life change? With the combination, I guess, of Die Hard, of people knowing you. Well, Die Hard, Die Hard, didn't come out until almost a year after Pulp Fiction. Right, but that time. Because we were shooting it at that time.

Right. But I became like this, like, you know, cult figure. Because interestingly enough, when we went to can, I was the one person that people peripherally knew. They weren't sure if I was that guy from jungle field, even though I was the only, you know, I had my hand and footprints there for some reason. Somehow that happened. I don't even know how that happened. I don't even know if they're mine. They may be somebody else.

But there's a block with my name on it. I don't remember doing it. But going to Cannes and everybody knew everybody in the cast kind of except me. Yeah. So by the time the film won the award, and then we came back and they started that Academy campaign, there was so much going on around that that I was kind of brand new to and didn't understand. And so when the manipulation of the nominations were happening,

I was like, well, wait a minute. they didn't want to put me and John in the same category because they said we would cancel each other out. So I'm like, well, who's the lead actor and who's not? Right. So I got put in supporting and John got put in lead. And I'm like, well, okay, he's in a movie more than I am. I thought in my head.

So that's how that works. And I'll go in this other category, I guess. And that was a lot of talk about, oh, my God, you were amazing in the movie. And da-da-da-da. You're going to win. But, you know, Martin's been nominated a lot of times. You're going to be around for a long time.

I'm like, what the hell is that made? They're setting me up for something. And sure enough, you know, I would go to all these things. I went to the Golden Globes. I went to whatever else there was. Martin didn't win, but that was another actor who won. What's an actor's name who died that year, Hispanic actor? I don't know who that was.

He was a great actor, too. Well, he did a lot of theater, but he was winning most of the awards. And then by the time we got to the Academy Award and they said, Martin Landau, Ed Wood, I was kind of like, what? I think I cursed. I think I might be one of the few people in that little box that said, I think me and my wife left. Did you?

We're out. We're done. Yeah, we're done. Do awards mean a lot to you or anything to you, Sam? Would it be nice to have one of those trophies on the shelf? I guess so. I'd rather have a green jacket. A lot more people will remember who won the green jacket than who won the Academy Award last year.

I mean, if I said who won Best Actor last year, you'd have to stop and think. Yeah, you're right. I got Tiger like that. Yeah, right. So you get it. Bang. So there you have it. Yeah.

Stick around to hear more from Samuel L. Jackson on the Sunday Sitdown podcast, including what's next for the legendary actor. Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Samuel L. Jackson. What's the secret, Sam, to you, your long marriage, obviously having a great wife helps, in Hollywood, and to be in it for so long. It's not just in Hollywood.

But I mean, people view celebrity marriages. It's more difficult. Why? I don't know. Marriage just fall apart all over the place. Marriage fall apart in the projects and suburbs. It doesn't matter where you are. Doctors have the same problems.

Lawyers have the same problems. People go, well, you know, you have more access to beautiful women. Really? You know, I don't think so. It's whatever it is or the temptations are greater. No, temptations aren't greater. Same thing. I go to grocery store and see the same people you see in traffic.

You know, so it's not that. It's the commitment to that other person and what that means to you in terms of your shared history. and I guess being mature enough at a certain point to say to yourself, how would that other person feel if I gave in to this desire? Okay, it's a passing thing. It's not something, you know, feelings ain't facts for what they used to say to me in rehab, you know, just a feeling.

Take a deep breath, it'll go by, you know, or play the whole tape in your head of, what do you think is going to happen after you do that? you do that. Marriage changes the dynamic of how we perceive ourselves because we have to start thinking of someone else. The selfishness of who you are has to be subjugated in a very interesting kind of way, especially when you have kids also. That becomes a whole other kind of dynamic.

But what kind of person do I want to present to the kid? what kind of family unit do we want to look like. And both of us are products of like broken homes. So we understand what it means or the value in our heads of having two people there that have a unified front of sorts that gets destroyed from time to time. Sometimes you know you're wrong, right? But being able to show what a family is and to create something that's going to last in that little person that watches how you and that other person react to each other and treat each other and define what love, compassion, and responsibility is. So there are days when you say you're sorry and you're not because that's just being matured.

sure, that's what you do. And like my wife says, you have to have a certain amount of amnesia. I know what you mean. You let the amnesia sit and, you know, settle with it. And sometimes, I mean, you just swallow it. And you become a strong unit for it. You become a better human being. You learn how to do something or to accept something about another person that you wouldn't accept in other people. Or there's a specific, a special person that deserves that kind of respect, that kind of understanding and that kind of tolerance that makes you a better person in the end and makes you a strong family unit because of it. It sounds like there's some element for you of wanting to create something for your daughter

that you didn't have growing up with your mom. Writing the wrongs of the past in some ways. Yeah. Well, I can't write the wrongs of the past, but... Doing it better. Yeah. Yeah. Write my own story.

Yeah. So what's next for you, Sam? Because you're a busy man. You've got a lot of projects. Is there something out there now? Is there something out there that you haven't done? Because you've been in every kind of movie. Not really.

I keep thinking about going back to the theater, though. Just because my wife was in the play for a play for a movie. her last year. She's been doing a play for a year. So I've been in and out of here and going to shows and, you know, kind of thinking about it. Maybe not being on location so much as I have been kind of being in one place doing eight shows a week and hearing the live audience and smell the grease paint. Do that. I kind of want that for a minute. It might be a nice deep breath for you. Yeah. And I like to go back on vacation, so she screwed that up this year. We'll see.

Sam, thanks for the time, man. Oh, great talking to you. Not a problem. My big thanks to the great Samuel L. Jackson for that conversation. You can catch his new movie Shaft in theaters now. And my thanks as always to all of you for tuning in this week to hear more of the full-length conversations with all my guests. Make sure you click subscribe so you never miss an episode.

And don't forget to tune into Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sun. Sunday Sit Down Podcast.