Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Sarah Silverman

Episode Date: September 2, 2018

Sarah Silverman is known for her hard-edged, taboo-breaking standup act and her progressive political bent off stage, but her Emmy-nominated TV series “I Love You, America” shows a different side of the comedian. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist talks to Silverman about traveling the country for that show as she tries to understand today's American divide. She also opens up about her early love of performing and her rise from the basement comedy clubs of New York City to being one of the most successful comics in the business. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, it's Willie Geist. Thanks for clicking on another edition of the Sunday Sit Down podcast on a Labor Day weekend. Always appreciate you being with us. Hopefully you can take some time this week. Listen through the full library, full catalog of interviews. And we've got a good one. We'll start you off with the always hilarious Sarah Silverman. The always edgy Sarah Silverman. I don't know if we bleep these. Do we bleep the podcast? If we do, there are going to be some bleeps in this one. Sarah and I got together at the fabled comedy seller here in New York City down in the West Village to talk. about her rise from those dark basement comedy clubs to being one of the biggest comedians in show business we talk about growing up in New Hampshire how she found her voice as a comedian with three older sisters she watched Steve Martin on SNL growing up and eventually landed a job on that show it didn't last long she knew she though she wanted to get into comedy when she watched Saturday Live she also talks about her chronic bedwetting problem actually her memoir is called the bedwetter sounds

maybe like a bit of comedy on the surface, but when you peel back the layers and she talks about this, she says it's actually what gave her her her courage. She said, you couldn't scare her. If you heckled her, you booed her from stage, she'd been through much worse with her problem in childhood. And she talks about that. We're also going to dig into her latest project. The Emmy nominated now. Yes, it just got nominated for an Emmy, the series, I Love You America. It's on Hulu, entering its second season. What she does basically is travel, and I think what might be a little bit surprise to people given her politics. You know, she's a self-described

Bernie Sanders supporter and democratic socialist and outspoken about politics, but she goes out into the country, so she's bummed out about how divided we are, and she goes into people's homes, she goes where they work and where they live, and listens to them, and gives her point of view,

has dinner, sits and breaks bread with them. And she does it, of course, with her own brand of humor, finding common ground for all of us, an important show, I think. And a great conversation with Sarah Silverman right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Thank you for doing this, Sarah. You're welcome.

Thanks for finally thanking me. What's it like to be in rooms like this where you've done a lot of your work where you made your name? What do you get in these rooms, the darkness, the feel, the smell? It's, I wish I had a better answer. It's like I did that Finding Your Roots show. And every page, he's like, what are you feeling? and I'm like, wow, I must be dead inside.

But I mean, yeah. It's nostalgic. It's, you know, I just was here Monday night, so it's quiet right now. But yeah, when there's a crowd and there's energy, and, you know, it's always a chance. To keep writing, you just, you have to be willing to bomb. That's the big, like, secret to growth, you know, as a comedian. So, I mean, like, Chris Rock is. is really like a role model for me in that way,

because he'll do a special, you know, then it's done and you have to start at zero, you know? You have to go up and maybe the crowd, because people know you, have very high expectations, and you're gonna disappoint them because you have to try stuff that doesn't work, you know? But it's, there's no way around it. You can't practice in front of a mirror stand up.

You have to just do it in life. On the other hand, though, do you find because people know who you are and they love you going in, you get the laughs at the beginning, they're giving it to you just because you're Sarah Silverman? Yeah, you buy, you have a buy, a bit of a buy, but it's like, you still, you still eat. You still can eat it, like, for sure, but I don't think people are mad, you know, and I bring my notebook, and it's, I'm just, I'm pretty totally transparent. I don't try to act like I've got my shit together, you know, and just like, all right, what about this? This is definitely not funny yet, but, and I think that I like to lower the bar as much as possible. You know, before I, people knew who I was, it was already very low, so it was like easier, you know.

But it's interesting. It's, it's, it's very anthropological, you know. I mean, it's, I think, like, my interest in social politics and all that stuff comes from, like, people in an audience. You know, hecklers, there's common denominators. You learn so much about people, you know. I mean, hecklers used to be my biggest fear. And I still get hecklers sometimes, but it's fascinating to me. I mean, I definitely don't want to, like, encourage it.

But I always, whatever someone heckles, the subtext is always the same, which is like, I exist, right? And there's something heartbreaking and very human about it, you know. So you talked about this as an anthropological exercise, and you have really undertaken one with your show. I love you America, which is to... Sweet segue. I'm in all of you.

Okay, go on. Let's lean it a little bit. Where you go out into the country for people who haven't seen the show, and you talk to people who see the world completely differently from you. What was the idea behind it when you started season one? I knew I wanted to do something. the country's so divided and it's been getting that way for so long. And as much as social media really makes the world smaller, it also divides us so much.

And we're able to be less compassionate and see each other as less human. And it's dangerous in that way, kind of, you know. And I mean, social media has been incredible. I always liking it to, this is going to be really far off, but it's the Wild West, you know, so it's like when rollerblades became popular, and then you rollerblade inside the mall because it's so fun, and then they have to make a rule you can't rollerblade at the mall. But they never had that rule before because nobody thought to rollerblade at the mall. I can't remember what my point is, except that the Internet is just the Wild West,

and it's not, we don't know how to regulate it yet. And it, you know, it's like, do we suspend this person? Or is it freedom of speech? Or is it hate speech? Or is it, you know, it's like, all these definitions are so individualized and it's hard to all be on the same page of like, what is right and wrong, you know? I mean, but also social media showed me a lot.

Like, this conceit of liberal bubble is real. Like, I believe it because I feel that I've been a part of it. And when I, you know, I said last season, there were a few years ago where I was looking online and going, oh, my God, there's an epidemic of unarmed black teenagers being murdered by cops. And then I went, oh, this is how it's always been. I'm just aware of it now because of social media and I was so ashamed. But you can only just be changed and move forward. What was the question? Is this even close to an answer?

My question was about rollerblading in malls and how bad the problem really is. See, I really have a... I digress. But so anyway... No, but you make an important point about the bubble. But the instinct for a lot of people now in the age of Donald Trump, I think,

progressives and conservatives, is to dig down deeper and to sort of fortify that bubble even more. and to say the most extreme thing you can. But what's interesting about your show is that you're doing the opposite. You're stepping outside of the bubble. Well, I found myself being scared of the other.

And that's no way to live, and I feel like it's only getting worse. And I also, even on my own, you know, in the liberal world, like I just see this kind of online, like this righteousness porn, like this like, I'm right and you're wrong, and I'm smart and you're smart, and you're dumb.

And there's no connection in that. No one's going to be changed by that. What are you winning? I don't know. So I did want to do a show where I could connect with unlike-minded people. And it's really based on like the tenets

of Mr. Rogers to me because I do think we are, you know, my first thought was I wish there was a bat signal for Mr. Rogers, you know. For me, he taught me so much he looked right into the camera and he told me, you know, if it's mentionable, it's manageable, and to talk about things and that there isn't anyone you couldn't love once you've heard their story and all these things. And then I realized like, we need this for adults and what are

adults? We're just kids plus time, as corny as that sounds. It is what is true. And also, I think we live in a time where truth just has no currency. We have different sets of truths and facts. And what I've learned doing this show is that spewing facts at someone or poll numbers or anything like that, it doesn't change people's minds. It makes them dig in deeper, as odd as that may be. And what is most important to do, the only thing that changes people or makes them open is is if their porcupine needles are down, you know? Their defenses are down. So to connect on any level, even if it's like,

oh my God, you watch Walking Dead, so do I. I used to hate Carol. Now she's my world, you know. It doesn't matter, but that just, any way that we can see ourselves in each other, which is really not that hard if you're face-to-face is a positive thing, you know. And I'm not talking about everyone.

I do see a difference to me between the liars and the lied to is how I see it. And I do not have respect for the liars. But the lied too, and maybe they see me as the lied to, we need to bond together, you know. So you're talking about the difference between elected leaders and the people who voted for them. Yeah. You look at them differently. Yeah, the elected leaders right now, people who are. you know, say that, you know, the same people that are saying America's 2PC are the people

who are, like, disingenuously clutching their pearls when it behooves them to take down maybe a liberal-leaning, outspoken comedian, or of which there are many, you know. It's, I don't like liars and I don't like disingenuousness. I'm liberal, I'm a Democrat, but More than anything, I just really care about what is true. I want to know what is true, no matter how inconvenient. And traveling the country, there isn't any family or any group or any people that I, online or like separate from, I would think, are insane. But you see humanity when you look in someone's eyes.

And I really leave their loving people. You know, it doesn't mean that I agree with them, but you know, I mean, we love tons of people we don't agree with. I mean, in our own families. And, but I do also see in my travels that people are not ready to accept the truth if it's inconvenient to the lives that they've built. And that's really a truth, especially. within like the wealthy community. Gary Shanling years ago told me something and it's more true now than ever,

which is like he said, this country is run by wealth addicts. Not being anti-capitalist. Everyone can still be a rich-ass if you want to. Thank God. Thank God. But there are wealth addicts. And they're really running things,

whether they're in politics or they're lining the pockets of politicians. And it's as if he said, it's as if we gave a bunch of cocaine addicts, a pile of cocaine and said, distribute this among your people evenly. You know, it's just, it's not going to happen. And now I've changed the topic into like,

we need to get money out of politics. But, I mean, I do think Citizens United is kind of the end of democracy. democracy, if unchecked. One of the, for me, the pleasant surprises about the show is knowing your world view, as you said, you're a liberal Democrat, is I guess I thought at some point in a piece where you go to Louisiana or Texas with people, there was going to be a wink and a nod or a turn to the camera and say, point a finger at the people in some way, not mock them, but just to underline that they're seeing the world in a way that you don't and that your way is right.

And that moment never comes. it seems to me that you go there with an open mind and with genuine intentions to hear them out. Yeah, that's what it is. It's not, I mean, listen, it's, some of my favorite shows are the gotcha shows that you look at the camera. You know, you have, you know what they're going to say and what you're going to say back. And if they don't say it, you find a way they make. But this isn't that show. It's not a gotcha show. I hate using a Sarah Palin word. But, but. But it isn't. And because of that, the comedy's harder. It's harder to, but I like that.

I'm a veteran. I want a challenge. I like that it's harder to mind comedy and vulnerability and earnestness, you know. And, you know, going into the show right before we started the first season, there was, it was so much about being earnest and connecting. and that I suddenly went, oh my God, we have to number one be funny. I mean, because otherwise I feel like people would watch the show

and go, I don't know how else to say this. I'm trying not to say, fuck you, but just be like, screw you. You know, like anything heady has to be served in a very silly, aggressively stupid, bready, you know, comedy, which is my favorite. Well, you do that, and I'll use the example of, Texas with the firefighters.

Yeah. Where you're having a deep conversation about climate change and all these serious, heavy issues, and then you find your common ground in a place that, like, it turns out we all can relate to. Yeah, I mean, you're going to need to bleat me, but it's like there isn't everyone, the one thing we all have in common is we love our families, we care about our friends, and we all have humiliating stories that involve shit. And it was perfect. And they all had one, and they were amazing.

Everyone has one except for me. You don't have one? Of course not. I don't do that. Good hold. I really don't. Good hold. I know, I committed. I have to say my favorite was the woman in the beauty salon who met her husband that way. Yeah.

And you're like, wow, that's a beautiful love story. She told it well because it was like, and then he had, you know, I've done this and everything, and that's how I met my husband. I know. Her delivery was incredible. It was. And you've been nominated for an Emmy. Congratulations.

Thank you. You know, we were talking about this. There's so much content out there, and you can put on an amazing show, and it can get lost in that universe. So it must feel so good to have somebody stop and say, that's good. We were, I want to say, like, hey, it's frosting on the cake, you know, but we were so happy, because we are this little show on Hulu, which is just an app like Netflix anyone can get. Handmaid's Tale is on it.

You should get it, Castle Rock. So just for the like little more visibility, it was, we're so happy. And Hulu was pretty psyched too. Yeah. Daddy was happy. You touched on it a little bit, but there's this interesting thing happening now with comedians and athletes even

and politicians obviously where you're held responsible for everything you've said or done over the course of your adult life effectively and they'll come through tweets and Facebook and everything else. Is that a dangerous thing to you? Yeah, it is a dangerous thing because what happens is there are people on the right

people involved in things like Pizza Gate or, you know, people on the, not just the right, not just Republicans, but certain dark people who have found a real power in searching outspoken liberal comedians like Twitter feeds and finding, you know, jokes about pedophilia or, you know, all these things. And then they, they interpret them Sands comedy.

Like, you can't take the comedy out and then just leave, like, the absolute power of that. It's so dark. Of course it's going to look awful. I mean, there were some people that came after me for a joke a few years ago. It was, I don't know, is it molestation if the child was. makes the first move. All right, not the best joke, but it is like, you know, and I don't think there's anyone who accused, who brought this out to get me in trouble who thinks I'm a pedophile. And that's a dangerous thing. I mean, it's to accuse people of someone disingenuously to get them,

to cross them out and get them out of your way, to make them afraid to speak out. And it is. It's scary to speak out when you know there are people actually organized. to take you down through your own comedy. Comedians explore the darkest places of humanity. That's our job. Not all comics, but I do, and many comics do. And if you couple that with the fact that comedy is not evergreen, it's art,

it changes with the times. The same joke looked at 10 years later is very, very different. Right. especially in the span of these past 10 years in which has had the change of a hundred years, you know. And it is. It's very, it feels like very McCarthyismish. And it is scary and I know comics that are afraid to be outspoken because they get punished for it, especially when giant companies will fire people.

to me that tells those people we negotiate with terrorists. You know what I mean? Yeah. Do you look back at your stand-up specials, for example, from 10 years ago? And cringe, yes. Do you really? Of course. You do.

God. Because you think something's not funny or you think it's not offensive or all those things? Or I think it is offensive? Yeah, it's offensive. I mean, there's stuff from my first special, from my first series, which I love in lots of ways, there's stuff in it that makes me totally cringe. And I think that you're not progressing as a comic or as a human if you're not looking back

and cringing at your old stuff. It's just, that's what growth is, you know, but you have to be able to do that, you know? And especially Twitter in its early days was, you know, a club at 1 a.m. It was this kind of small place where you could try things out. And I still treat it that way,

which probably doesn't behoove me. Okay, I want to go back to the beginning of your stand-up career, which you say was like third grade, something like that? I didn't stand up I was 17. Well, you didn't actually do it, but I'm saying you knew it was something you wanted to do. Oh, I did know. Like be funny in front of a group of people.

How did you know that? I have no idea. It never occurred to me that I wouldn't be a comedian. I don't know why. I saw that it was a thing. I saw like Steve Martin on Star Night Live, and I was like, yeah. June Rivers.

I don't know. I just always, I was, you know, I was the class clown. I was the funny one in my family, although my family says I'm the least funny one of my family. And, you know, this is, I feel like I've, my dad taught me swears when I was three. He was like that dad that thought it was hilarious. But I do remember being three and saying swears

and getting this intense reaction from grownups, you know, despite themselves. And it gave me such glee. It made my arms itch. It just, it felt like it definitely was something I needed to feed, you know, probably to an obnoxious degree. And so, yeah, I just always, I never, I wanted to be in musical theater for a while, too.

But I always wanted to be a comedian. And so when you got up on stage for the first time, did you get that itch on your arms again and say, Yeah, this is the feeling I want. Yeah, the first time I did it, it went well because I had, like, my teachers came and, like, people came. But, you know, then it's like you just eat, eat it for, you know, a decade until you figure out who you are. Right. So what were those years like for you in New York when you got here?

You're standing on stages like this late at night? Was it a struggle? Was it a struggle? Yeah. You know, I always say, like, because I was a chronic bedwetter and I, you know, well into my teens and I had to go to sleepover camp since I was like six. So I had already gone through so much intense humiliation by the time I became a comedian that it was much less daunting than I think for the average bear.

Like, oh, I might bomb on stage, whatever. I mean, you say that half kidding, but I mean, you write about that in your book. No, I'm dead serious, yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah. So what else did that teach you? that, you know, you've titled the book, The Bedwet, or what else did you learn from that?

It taught me that something that I thought would be the biggest shame and biggest secret of my life was something that became very freeing for me and kind of taught me to be, I probably exposed myself too much. I, you know, I don't like, I can't be alone with any secrets, you know? Like, I mean, I can't keep a secret.

But, you know, I feel the need to expose myself. You know, when it looked like a big brother might be, like, seeing our search words and stuff, I mean, might be, of course. I mean, I just posted my most embarrassing search words immediately. I just, like, I don't want any, I don't want to hide a single thing, you know. So when you're on these stages as a 20-something-year-old, what are you dreaming of? Like, what's the progression?

You got SNL, which was a huge deal, did that for a year. Yeah. What are you thinking of? Is it a sitcom, or what did you imagine your career looking like? I had a lot of really great mentors in my life. I remember, you know, when I started out, it was very different for women. It was very different just in general. It was a totally different time.

But a comedian, you're supposed to want to get a sitcom, you know, you're. You don't just stay a comedian. You're being a comedian to get to something. But I always just love being a comedian. And I had a friend Ken Ober, and do you remember Ken Over? Yeah, of course. And he said, I remember him telling me, like, don't just assume your dream is what everybody's dream is. Like, you might not want to be on a sitcom.

You might not, you know, like, you have to really look inside. And I see this with people in every industry and every part of the world. in high school and everything, you just kind of assume you want what you're supposed to want. And it's important to really think about, like, what does a good life look like for me? It may not be the same as everyone else. It's like how we're raised to think that money,

no matter how it's achieved, is equal success, you know? I mean, it's not like I don't like money. I love being able to stay at a hotel with a soaking tub. I'm not going to lie. But there's a country called Bhutan where they measure success by a gross national happiness. I think that's probably a smarter way to live. Imagine that. And we're a very rich country.

We could have, everyone could have the same opportunities. Like I don't think it's, I do like socialist ideals. I'm not totally a socialist, but I do think that it's such a trigger word. like you're a socialist. Well, I don't know. I like being able to call the fire department if there's a fire. Is that? I mean, that's a socialized program.

I like public schools. I like calling 911 if somebody's robbing me. Like, those are socialized programs. Like, it goes with democracy. It's not a crazy idea that people who are not born with the same opportunities as you and me are able to get the same opportunities as you and me. I don't think that's some insane conversation. communist thought.

If the 1% pays their fair taxes without being able to have loopholes that get around the spirit of what is taxes, we could afford those things. And by the way, if you look at what's happening just this year, that philosophy that you just expressed is ascendant in the Democratic Party. In other words, people who call themselves Democratic Socialists are getting elected all over the place. Alexandra Cassia. Yeah, you were on that early. Yeah, well, I just, you know, my sister, my oldest sister, the rabbi, she said something like, it's so simple, but just like, you have to figure out for yourself what you're willing to give up, what comforts, what things in life you're willing to give up for the well-being of others. you know and maybe it's not a lot maybe it's a little maybe it's a lot

but it is something to think about for yourself because people are so afraid to to give I mean we were raised by a dad who said who taught us that taxes I mean listen taxes suck I make like 10 cents on the dollar

between everyone I pay out but I'm able to live fine and and taxes are our dad taught us the taxes are an honor to be able to pay that that they go to infrastructure and they make our country great. I mean, there's nothing more American, you know.

But people just, rich people. You know what I found? Rich people are so cheap. Many of them are. It's so weird. It's always like people have weighted tables who know to tip well, you know? Rich people are so bananas, how cheap they are sometimes. Would you give up the soaking tub?

No. That's what I won't give up. I like a soaking tub. I'm a bath person. And then also, I'm ashamed of this, because I do separate my, you know, I try not, I use a thermos, I don't have plastic, all this stuff,

but a really absorbent paper towel goes a really long way. I try to use the rags than I do, but if I use a paper towel, if it's just water, I dry it, I use it again, but that's another one. Do you do the, like a nice bounty two-plice? I do.

Yeah. Sometimes I'll do a seventh generation, but I'm a sucker for a bounty and I know it's wrong, but I try to really use it sparingly. And I get the kind with the perforated where you can take a little strip. You're a soaking... But you have to make those decisions for yourself. These are the tough choices we make in a civilized society. I don't need fancy things.

I like to travel comfortably. I like a nice soaking tub. You're a soaking tub socialist. But I don't need a lot of stuff, personally. Stuff doesn't make me happy. You talked about how it wasn't easy being a woman in comedy early on. What about today, 2018? I mean, you've seen a bunch of your friends become movie star

and get their shows and all these platforms. It's amazing. What's it like to be a woman in comedy now? Well, it's funny because I always say the last vestige of, like, feeling like a woman in comedy is, and this is, and I love you, but is the interviewer question, what's it like being a woman in comedy? Because it's just, now it just feels like you're just a person in comedy.

Right. There is, you know, there still are people who say like, and they mean, and it's so nice and flattering, but they go, oh, you're my favorite female comic. And I'm always like, who's your favorite black comic? Because you just would never do that. Like, it's just so odd. It's just a very weird, like, division.

Well, by the way, I don't make that distinction. I was just asking me because you were saying it was tough out of the gate. You did. And it feels like it's different now. Is that true? It is. Not fixed, but different.

No, I think it's great. I think women have a lot of power in comedy now. And it's because, you know, when young women would come up to me and say, like, give me some advice to be like a woman in a man's world or whatever. And I'd always say, and I'm sure this is true for any marginalized people,

it's just be undeniable. You just have to be. be the best. Just be undeniable. And now we live in a time where maybe a white male might have to be undeniable. And that's, you know, there, I, you know, I have white male friends, writers who are like, oh, I can't even get a job. Yeah, you can. Be the best. Be undeniable. It's all right. You can do it. I believe in you. And isn't comedy the perfect test for that? If you get up and say something and everybody laughs, that's undeniable. It's a reaction. You know, when I started out, people who I love and trusted and still love.

It was just another time. Their advice would be, your material has to be gender neutral. They would say like you can't talk about woman stuff. They would always use Paula Poundstone as an example, who's brilliant. They'd say Paula Poundstone, a man could do her material and do well. So that's what a real comic is. And it's so crazy that I accepted that. Or, you know, to even hear that now sounds so crazy, but it really was.

And they'd say, because there are women in the audience, but they're on dates, and they're only laughing if the man is laughing. So you have to only make the man laugh. So you can't talk about the female experience. It's basically what they were saying. Did you go with that? You did accept it for a while? It did for a while, but then I lost my virginity when I, you know, as a comedian.

I was starting when I was 17. So then I was like 19. And then all I could talk about was sex, but still like sex. But still, like, sex jokes are, like, male-oriented in lots of ways. But now, and for a while, like, to be able to talk about your own experience or being, or the experience of being a woman is, you know, of course, there's an audience for it, you know. And it is. It's very interesting.

And the Me Too movement has opened my eyes in so many ways because, You know, I was, before Me Too started, I was sitting in the back of a comedy club with my friend Nick Kroll and we were watching Natasha Legerro, name drafting much. And she's, you know, so brilliant and she said something, and I'm going to misquote it, but I think she already did it in her special so I won't ruin it. But where she asked, you know, how many women here have had a man, a stranger masturbate at them uninvited? And every woman raised their hand. And Nick was like, what? And I go, yeah, that's part of life as a girl.

I just had the same reaction when you said it. Yeah. And Me Too has really made men for the first time, really, have to see the world through the lens of women, whereas women have always had to see the world, not just through their own lens, but through the lens of the male world. And then that blew my mind when I realized that

because then I realized, oh, I've only had to see the world through a white person's view. And people of color, black people, you know, they see the world through their view and they have to see the world through this white, country's view, you know? And that's changing too, and there's a long way to go,

but when I saw my own, like, complicitness in that, I was like, whoa, you know. So I love those big realizations and being changed, and that's also why I love the show. I'm so fundamentally changed with everyone I talk to. Well, that's what I was going to ask you. When you go into the show, do you feel better or worse coming out of it

about the state of the country? Do you know what I mean? Like you go in saying, uh-oh, we're in trouble here. Do you feel better when you walk out of those rooms? Do you feel like you bridge something that could be bridged by the country? There's a certain high when I leave a field piece where I feel like it just felt so good to connect

with someone so different. And as the days where on, I, reality sets in of how different we are and how differently we view this world and our, that our fears and everything. There's a beauty in it in that like when we come to see each other, we have anticipation and we have, what's it called? Our minds fill, pre-conceived notions. You know, you can't keep yourself from that.

Our brain fills in what we don't know with stuff that's like familiar that we are guessing. And then you find out what is real. And to be, you compare that. that to what your preconceived notions are, it's very interesting. But yeah, I leave some, and as the high wears off of, you know, part of why I'm good at this is because no matter how different the person is, no matter how much we are at opposite ends politically or ideology,

I still have that messed up need to be liked. And that works well with us. But I also do interview and interview on the show, And the people I've interviewed have been so inspiring to me. Christian Picolini, who was a skinhead Nazi, and changed. And I asked him what his advice would be to people, and he said, find someone who doesn't deserve your compassion and give it to them, because that's what happened to him.

And then I wonder, if I met him before he changed, would I be big enough or smart enough or stupid enough? I don't know, to give him compassion. But it is the only way that people change. It's the only way people change. That's one thing I've really learned too is. People go towards where the love is. People go towards where they're accepted,

and that may be a very dark place. But if they feel like they're supported or there's family in that, that's the whole appeal of hate groups. no one's accepting you come with us brother you know so there is something that if we could be more empathetic compassionate and this is very easy to say on a television show and a daytime in the comedy club but i think people are people only change if they're changed by their feelings and their defenses are down and they're able to be open and none of us are really in that state right now and we need to get there. It sounds soft. Right. But it's kind of the

only solution. Well, the instinct is to go harder, right? To fight harder. Yeah. And yes, protest. Yes. Speak truth to the man. Speak truth to power. But to the powerless, to the people, to peers, we need to, we really have to see ourselves in each other. Amen, sister. I think. I don't know. I'm talking out of my ass. Thank you. That was great. My thanks to Sarah Silverman, the second season of Sarah's show. I Love You America, premiered September 6th on Hulu.

For this week, thanks as always for tuning in to the Sunday Sit Down podcast to hear more of the extended conversation with my guests every week. Don't forget to click, subscribe, and make sure you tune in, as always, to Sunday today, every Sunday on NBC. Hope you're enjoying your Labor Day weekend. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week. on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.