Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Shaquille O'Neal (2019)

Episode Date: May 3, 2020

NBA Hall of Famer Shaquille O’Neal is one of the most dominant athletes in the history of sports. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist gets together with the basketball legend to talk about his success on and off the court, including his second act as a prolific businessman and analyst on “Inside the NBA.” (Original broadcast date: April 21, 2019) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along this week. My guest is a larger-than-life legend goes by the name of Shaquille O'Neal. Yes, Shaq. One of the most dominant athletes in the history of sports, one of the greatest players in NBA history. Let me set the scene for you, as I always like to do. He lives in rural Georgia, about 45 minutes outside Atlanta, drive down to the little town where he lives, go to a spot.

called PJ's Cafe, restaurant on the town square right there, hanging out, waiting for Shaq to come in, and man, does he make an arrival? Comes in solo, but in his jacked-up pickup truck, and all of 7-foot-1 and 300-whatever pounds, but kind of rock-solid these days, big arms, just wearing a purple polo shirt, and sunglasses. Sunglasses for the entire interview, I believe, and I'll have to check with the Sunday Today Historian. it's only the second interview that we've done for this Sunday show where the guest has worn sunglasses throughout the other being Ice Cube. So Ice Cube and Shaq, the two guests wearing sunglasses throughout the interview. We got together and talked business. There was no real peg. Usually

you interview somebody for a show or a movie or a song or an album, whatever it is. Shack just wanted to talk. So we sat down, we talked basketball, yes, but to me the most interesting part of the conversation was his business success. It's been eight years now since he played his last NBA game. Obviously, you know, he won the three titles with the Lakers, later won another one with the Miami Heat, played in 15 All-Star Games, was the NBA rookie of the year, won the MVP award. Going back to LSU, he was the college player of the year, and as you can imagine, he was pretty good in high school, an All-American there, too. But really, we talked about what he's done since he left the game, and that's become a crazy successful businessman. with restaurants, real estate, car washes, and as one of now the favorite and best-known pitchmen on TV.

For products like the general insurance, icy hot, gold bond, wanted to get into him about why he picks those products. Because you are watching them and you go, I love Shaq, I love the ad, why is he doing this? I know he doesn't need the cash. We talk about all that. And then, of course, he puts on his analyst hat. You know, he's one of the host of Inside the NBA

with Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, Ernie Johnson. We talk about the Warriors. We talk about the greatest players in NBA history. I get his all-time top five out of them. All that. And a lot more with Shaquille O'Neal right now on the Sunday Sitdown podcast. Shaq, thanks for doing this. Thank you.

Appreciate it. I know you just came in late from L.A. Big opening of Shaquille's restaurant out there. What kind of place is it? It's similar. The best description I can give that people understand. Sort of like a Houston Hillstones, which is the same thing. Very classy, very southern.

Fried chicken steak, Kobe burgers, ribs, whatever you want. Is this like some of your other projects, where you'll start one in L.A. And then build them out all over the place, but one in Atlanta maybe? I would like to. That's always the plan. But, you know, the first one is always the test to see how it works. Big chicken. My other restaurant in Vegas is doing fabulous.

So I think about Orlando, maybe New York and Times Square, and Chiquel is the other. I've already, I already own about six or seven restaurants in Vegas. We always start out in Vegas because my chef and my partners are in Vegas. They can do most of the watching while I'm working. So most of my seven restaurants there have been very, very successful. So now it was the time to branch out a little bit. So where does this instinct come for you, Shaq? Because you've got the restaurants, you've got real estate, you've got clothing,

you've got jewelry. You've got this huge portfolio of businesses. When did you get that interest in business, but not just an interest, but being good at it, having that savvy for it. My father did an excellent job of preparing me for life at the basketball. His ways were very aggressively unorthodox. So every time an athlete got in trouble, I would be punished.

Really? Yes, the worst punishment of my life was when Lynn Bias passed away from a cocaine overdose. My father came in very upset and put his hands on me and said, if you ever do coke, I'll kill you. And me, young at the time, I was like, Dad, I like Coke.

I was like, you know, I thought he was, I'm not talking about that crazy. Right. So we had to sit down and watch and learn. So his methods were that we learned from everyone's mistake. So it's a shame that 63, 65% of all athletes, especially in the NBA, when they retire, they have nothing. He didn't want that for me. I didn't want that for me.

So every moment was a teaching moment. Whenever somebody did something wrong, he would throw it in my face. Whenever I would have an injury, he would throw it in my face. It could be times where I have a hell of a game, 40, 50 points, and he would say, yeah, what's going to happen if you blow your knee out? What's going to happen? So he started it. When I was 19 years old, I met Magic Johnson.

in Los Angeles. Imagine you pulled me to the side and says, you're going to be a big star in this league, but at some point you want to start owning things. I had no idea what that meant, right? So when I first came in, you know, people thrust at the leadership position. Be a leader. Do this. Do that. So I know basketball. I didn't know business. Now I had to learn business. Now I had to watch people and see what they do. I had to buy a book called The Dumbies Guy who was starting your own business. Read that 50 times. Tried it.

Failed a couple of times. And I said, you know what? Let me go get my master's of business administration. Let me do it. So then finally, I would say to myself, okay, I want to own a restaurant. I'm playing. I'm doing movies.

I'm doing interviews. How am I going to do it? Go back to my leadership and how I ran the team. And then I figure it's all about teammates. So my strategy is I love doing joint ventures with people Right So the only thing you have to worry about

Is the trust factor For example, if I'm going to start a talk show You're going to be one of the first guys I call And you're a lovely producer She's going to be with us I say it's the Shaq show Boom Boom Boom Boom And y'all do what y'all do

Be my teammates and we have a great show Rather than me trying to interview people And do this and do that I'm not that good So every business that I'm involved in, I have great teammates. And that's how I survive in this world because I'm all over the place. Everybody knows it, right? Commercials, movies, T&T, and people ask me, how do you maintain all this?

It's all about the teammates. And I manage my teammates. So the five to seven restaurants we have in Vegas, I got two great point guards, the mats. They run everything. And I'm educated and smart enough to be like, Let me see what happened this week. Oh, sales are down? What's going on?

Well, well, no, no, there is no well. Maybe we need to go over to the convention center, hand out little panfins. Let them know the shack has seven restaurants in Vegas. So just like, you know, little stuff like that. And the biggest thing I learned was not to micromanage. So, kudos to my mother and father for seeing something that I never would be able to see. because look, I wasn't an A student.

I didn't score high on the SAT or the ACT, but they knew I had great leadership and great people qualities. So they always say, hey, when you're done playing, whenever that is, you need something to fall back on. So at 19 years old, you're at LSU, you're a college student. No, at 19. I'm in the NBA. 19, 20, yeah. Okay.

So when you're rookie year, most guys at that age are thinking what car they're going to get, what house they can have? what they can get for their mom. And you're already, thanks in part to magic, thinking forward. I did all that also. I'm not going to lie to you. I saw grips. Yeah.

I did all that stuff. And, you know, I like meeting people. I'm not ashamed to say I don't know at all, right? So, you know, part of education is also having a conversation with people. Education is not always read a book, take a test. Pass a test, you're educated. It's about meeting people. So one day I'm in the four seasons, Beverly Hills, L.A.

And I hear these gentlemen. Oh, I just did this, 70 million this, 50 million this, 80 million this. You have a napkin? I'm going to show you. Nacking? Yes. No, no, I don't. This is part of my spill.

70 million this, 80 million this. So I grabbed the gentleman. I said, who are you? He said, I'm boommoom. Oh, I heard of you, Graibbins, and man. I'm sure, oh, I know who you are wrong? How do I save money? How do I create generational wealth?

Pulls out a napkin. Actually, he pulls out a hundred dollar bill. He said, this is 100. My half of a hundred is what, Willie? 50. You save that. Save it. Put it away.

Don't even look at it. It's not there. Whether you're investment, government bonds, do not touch it. How much it we have left, Willie? Another 50. All right. He says, so the real people that are very wealthy do this. How much is this, Willie? 25. All right. You put that away also. Put it away. So you got 75 safe. Now this, do whatever you want to do. Houses, cars, jewelry. I did that. So I really did that. I was so scared of investing in things because I would always read stories. Athletes investing lost all the money. So I was government bonds, three, four, five percent. I didn't care.

Even at that young age? Yes, I'm not investing nothing. Yeah. Nope, I'm not doing it. Put all the money over there and this, I'm going to do whatever I want. Mom, you need a house, boom. Dad, you need two cars, boom, all that. And I didn't touch my first NBA check until I got married.

Really? Yeah. Wow. Reebok was paying me a lot of money and Pepsi was paying me a lot of money. So those are my, those are my, I'm going to play with these. Yeah. This big money and real money, leave it alone. Don't even touch it.

Because I was just terrified. My father would say something like, if you go broke, I would kill you. There comes dad again. No, seriously. I was like, man, I can't do it. So, you know, and then another time in four seasons, you know, because I always consider myself a geek.

I wanted to be the first one to have, you know, everything. So I'm in four seasons and one problem. I hear two guys talking about investment. They're like, man, this is good. going to be the future, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I'm sitting right here, you know, he's pulling our thing. We're going to do this. They're going to call this the search engine,

and you type in the search engine, and information will pop up free right here on your phone. And I already had a phone that was a little bit computeristic. It was a Nokia flip phone. And you open it up. I remember that. And I was like, OK, so I'm doing that. And I said, sorry, I'm Shikila.

Oh, how you are? I would like to talk you more about that. And he said, who's your representative? He said, God, oh, I know last I'll call less. So Lesser calls said, you want to invest in this Google thing? I said, let's do it. This is early Google? Early Google.

So let's do it. And that was Larry and Sergey sitting at a table? That was my first big risky investment. I didn't know. Did pretty well on that, huh? Yeah, did pretty well on that. And Apple too, right? Didn't you get in on Apple too?

Yeah. But then I would always watch the rich fellas talk. You know, Jimmy, Buffett, Warren Buffett. and Jeff Bezos. And basically what they would say is, if you invest in things, it's going to change people's lives, it has to be a win. So once I heard that, once I heard them say that,

then I tested the warders a little bit more. Is it true that you made more money, Shaq, since you retired than playing? I don't know, because I don't count it, because, for me, it's not about money. It's about the ability to still be here, the ability to still be able to work. Believe it or not, even though I know how much I'm making, my representatives are not allowed to tell me how much I'm making on a deal. Why is that?

So I never want to base a deal on money. Like, for example, they say, hey, you're in McDonough, we want to do a restaurant. I'm like, I don't really want to build a restaurant, but there's a guy around the corner named PJ. He's been here for a while. I'll come and have a conversation, say, PJ, let's do something together. Yeah. Because PJ's been here, he knows the market. I would try to do a JV partnership with PJs.

We have a successful restaurant rather than me trying to come and build and do. No. So partnerships has always been my big thing, but I never want to do anything based on money. But I've been doing okay. And another reason is my mother always used to tell me, you're going to be known for something more than basketball. The best feeling I have in my life is when I go to a PTA, meetings and they addressed me as Dr. O'Neill in front of my kids. Love it.

Because I, listen, my kids grew up with the Shaq character, but I want them to know me for something more than Shaq. Like I tell my children all the time, you need two degrees to touch some of my cheese. I have them on a little allowance and I have six children and I tell them all the time, we don't need another NBA player. I got two of them that'll probably be in the NBA. I tell my daughters all the time, you sure you don't want to go to law school? I'll take care of it.

You sure you don't want to be an architect? I'll take care of it. You sure you don't want to go to Harvard Business School and hang out with the guys that create Facebooks and all that? I'll take care of it. And that's my goal for my children. But to answer your question,

I don't know how much I make. It doesn't really matter. Because another thing that fascinates people, they always say, what do you want people to know you for? And my answer has always been the same. I want people to say Shack was a nice guy. Because in this world we live in, it's all about treating people with honor and respect.

It doesn't matter how much you make. Just because I make more than you don't mean I'm better than you. So it doesn't matter how much I make, how many businesses I own. What have I done to put a smile on your face? that's what I want to do on this life. I just want to put smiles on people's faces. Do you take any of your dad's approach with you, with your own children?

No, I can't. I can't because I grew up in the area that it was a lot of temptations. So the first time I met him, because he's not my real father, he's my stepfather. He said, I'm going to teach you to be a leader, not a follower. So the first thing you did. And I tested this theory a lot of times, and I would get punished for it. And I'm happy that he punished me for it. Because now my discipline is so karate kid, Missa Miyagi, it will never, ever be broken again.

So it was tough growing up, but it was definitely, definitely worth it. But my children didn't grow up in that type of environment. So I have to kind of reverse it. I have to kind of, even though we have the shabs and the housekeepers, I have to reverse it. Go clean your room up. Man, what did you say? Yes, sir. I have to teach them about real life skills.

And I can say I have six wonderful children. I have no problems. I'm blessed in a lot of categories, and the children category is one of them. I got an older daughter who's about to graduate. I got a son who's a junior at USC. I have a son who's a freshman at UCLA. He just went through heart surgery. I know. How's he doing?

He's doing fine. Good. It was a very tough, fabulous young man. His little brother is behind him. And then he has a little sister that's a junior. And another young daughter, she's in the eighth grade. They all play sports. But I have fabulous children.

I haven't had any problems. You were talking about the businesses and the companies you choose to work with. Some of the ones that jump out to people when they watch commercials are the general insurance, icy hot, and Gold Bond. And some people watch those and go, I love Shacking those ads, but I know he doesn't need the money. So what's he doing in all those ads?

It's not about, buddy. It's about partnership. So the general, people ask me all the time. Why the general? This is why. Because before the character Shack was created, he had to go to college. I'm in college, I'm walking around.

I'm working odd jobs. D.J. construction, boom, boom, boom. I get $5,000. I go to $4,000. Ford dealership, there's a Bronco two there. Oh, one, Rusty beat up for $3,000. I know nothing about buying cars.

I go buy the car, the guy said, you got some insurance? I'm like, what's insurance? So I said, sir, you need insurance before we let you go buy a car. So I'm going to all the big boys, $200, $300 a mile. I ain't got that. So I go to this one little place, this is a little general insurance, $29 a month. I got that. Go on there, sign me up, go back, I'm going.

my little insurance slip. Basic covers. Listen, that's all in there. I'm not going to be driving cross country. Just, you know, drive out to the club, to hang out, drive here, drive there. I know I'm not going to crash. Can't afford to crash. Right?

So I go, give my little paper, my little $4,000 buy a car, boom. So now when I'm at a conference one day, I see the general, I see the CEO, I said, you know I had the general insurance when I was in college. We need to talk business. Okay, boom, boom, boom. guy kind of all right and he went back and I guess he checked it he said man he's guy really did that the general and then that song you gotta load that song for a great no great dream you can get online go to the general let's say like I hear

that song every morning when I'm watching Mori Popovich I gotta watch Mori Popovich every month oh is that right yeah mori Poppich is my favorite guy that's part of your wake-up routine wake up 930 watch him at 10 while I'm doing doing a little bit of cardio on my Peloton bike and I just get a kick out of that show so And then you see yourself come on in the ads? And then I see hot. Yeah. I'm playing one day, and I get a little, you know, tightness in my thigh.

Say, hey, man, give me some heat. The guy puts it on my thigh. It rises up during the game. It touches the boys. Oh. So it's hot. So when they came on and said, hey, you want to do it? I said, your product works.

I know it works. Yes, I'm in. Well, you're not going to. I'm in. nothing talking about I'm in so go bond I see how they're owned by the same same company so you know how I got that deal was very fascinating I went to the CEO and I said you know black people like lotion he's like what did you say I said black people like lotion we need to do something with gold bond and it's true I

know you see how shiny I am today yeah it's a gold bond baby man up with gold bond so that's moving products so that's how I got that deal Well, what do the CEOs say? So the CEO of the general, Shaquille O'Neal comes up to him out of nowhere and says, I want to work with you. Is he shocked by the? He's obviously thrilled,

but is he shocked that you want to do business with him? They're definitely shocked. And they're definitely shocked that I'm the one doing a lot of the talking. I have great representatives. But one of the reasons why I got my master's is I used to show up with my big-time agents

in their suits and guys would be like, hey, Shaq, how you know, boom, one. Anyway, they wouldn't even look at me. We want to do this with Shaq, three years ago, and I took offense to that. I said, okay. They're looking at me as one of these athletes that don't know what's going on. And they're probably right. Let me go to school.

University of Phoenix, five years, boom, boom, boom, got my master. So now I'm like, hear what you have to say, sir. Oh, no, no, I'm right here. Here we go. Oh, you want to do this? You want to do it? And then I'll talk to my guys. That's been kind of better for me.

So everything has been a learning experience. You also have a track record now. They have to listen to you because you've succeeded time and time again, right? Because when I'm selling stuff to the people, I think the people can see if it's a paid advertisement or you really believe in it. Growing up from a military man who's all about honesty and respect, I can't take your money if I don't love your product. I always tell the story and people, it's a fascinating story to myself. win the first championship get contacted by Wheaties

hey we want to put Shaq on the cover I told my guys I can't do it big argument ensues in the office what do you mean you can't do it is Wheaties the breakfast championship growing up where I grew up we couldn't afford Wheaties I don't know what Wheaties taste like I know what the box looks like

everybody sees it every kid wanted to be on the cover but I can't do it what do you mean you can't do it so I tell you what call frosty flakes call fruity pebbles that's what I grew up on let's you know change the narrative here I can't I'm a champion

I understand that but I can't call Tony the tiger so we call Tony they weren't interested called fruity pebbles no we're not interested all right cool still can't do it second championship we need's called back oh you know

can't do it call my people call Tony so third championship you call Tony so fourth championship we need to deal with the NBA They used my likeness I was on the cover. So about seven years after I retired, I get a call for my representative. And I only took $1 from this deal because it wasn't about money. He said, hey, man, I got the best news you want to hear.

He said, you want the good news or bad news? I said, well, give me the bad news. He said, Frost or Flakes still not interested in have you with Tony. So that's cool going on said. I said, it was good news. Free Pebbles wants to put you on 13 million boxes. I told my guy, hell yeah. He said, he said, it's not a money to us.

I don't care. I don't care. So one time I was walking through the aisle with my kid, because I knew it was in there. I wanted my kid to see. So I was like, hey, go get some cereal. And my kids eat the same thing. I said, crap.

So they look and like, yep, daddy's undercut. And that, it was bigger than anything. So again, I can't be disrespectful to you and your business by taking your money and then trying to deliver it to the people. Well, you're always authentic, and that comes through with those. It's all real. It is.

But you're also funny and charming, and there's a reason my nine-year-old son, who's never seen you actually play an NBA game except for highlights on YouTube, loves you, based on where he sees you on TV and in commercials and inside the NBA and all that. Have you cultivated from the beginning that is sort of a brand that I'm the fun guy? I used to get in trouble from being a class clown. Like, I remember my mother saying one day, either going to be in trouble or you're going to be successful. So I'm in marketing class at LSU.

Guy says make a product. I want a presentation tomorrow morning about something that you can see in the future being sold. A real, a real presentation. So you know me, Shaq shoes, Shaq shirts, Shaq underwear, shack golf, shack everything, right? If I come and make my presentation, class is laughing, the professor to the side and said, well done, Mr. O'Neill, but it's not going to work. And I said, why?

So we had a conversation. She said, look, I love you. People in the bad rooms love you. But if you look at the climate of the NBA, big guys just don't sell. And I was like, and I would go back and I watch. It was only Michael, Magic and Bird. Yeah. Like, damn, he's right.

So now, I don't like to use the word depression because I know that's a real problem. So I'm sad. Mm-hmm. Because I'm like, man, I probably never have a commercial. Like, as a kid, I used to have different type of dreams. Like, I'd sit there, oh, I could do that. My mom, alone, he has that first name. I could do that commercial, right?

And you're looking at a TV. You're looking at rappers. I can do that. Like, I would always say, I could do that. So I'm sitting there and I'm watching. I'm like, damn, I'm never having a commercial ever. And this dumb doll comes on the TV. Spudson McKinsey, you remember him?

Of course. It was everywhere, right? Right? Something like, but his commercials are always funny. They're always cute. So then I kind of forget about it. I go to the store. This dude got cups, hats, damn napkins.

Like, he's all over the place. So then I said to myself, okay, if I ever get a commercial, I got to shack it up. I got to make people laugh. I got to make people remember. So if you remember my first commercial, and I hope you can show it, my first commercial was a Pepsi commercial. I'm walking and I'm playing with this kid, and the kid has a Pepsi

and I reach and go grabbing. He says, don't even think about it. And he intimidated me. Right. So I kind of got that from the mean Joe Green. I was going to say, it's the opposite of the Coke commercial. It's the opposite. So I did that.

And I was like, okay, how's it going to test? How's it going to test? And people love that. So my theory is to make them remember something in the commercial. See, the good thing about the general is you don't even know it's insurance. Well, great low-rangee, that's it.

That jingle makes you say, what the hell was it? Oh, that's a general insurance, right? So with Icy Hodden and Gold Bond, man up. It's always man up, right? So I have to make them remember what I'm talking about, and I only try to do that one way, just make them laugh. Because I could easily say, this was a napkin. Like, you know, with this, I would probably make a napkin

and do something like this, and then the napkin and turn into a butterfly. PJ's napkins. turns it, you know, right? So people, Shaq took a napkin and turned into a butterfly. You can only do it with PJs. So I try to make them remember it just by making them laugh. And it's been working.

And you start. Because when I watch commercials, I don't want to see boring. Yeah. Info-Marshal commercials. I hate those. You started early, too. I think it was your second year in the league that your album came out, right? Shack Diesel that went platinum.

Yes. Blue chips that year, too. A couple years later, Kazam. which was the best worst movie of all the time. Is it a better genie movie than Aladdin? That's the question. I haven't seen Aladdin. And you know what?

I can't disrespect Will Smith. He's the man. He's always been good to me. He's a great actor, and he's smart. So I'm sure he's not going to pick a movie with a bad script. When's the last time you went back and watched Kazam? I watch it all the time. Do you?

When it comes on TV or he just pop it in? I watch it all the time. And what do you think over the year? I get a lot of bad reviews from older people, but my thing is, you're too old to be watching that. But then every now and then I see a kid, a guy that's 20, 25. Man, that was my favorite movie. I was a kid. It was for the kids.

Right. But I was such a, you know, the adult, oh, what are you doing? Listen, I'm not a movie star, but I'm not going to turn down an opportunity. Same restaurant. Same restaurant. I'm under four seasons. I haven't got so much business with the four seasons. I was going to say.

And a guy named William Freaking, Billy, you know Billy Freaking? He said, my name is Billy Freaking. I'm like, Exorcist? He said, yeah, you know that movie? I said, me and my mom's very movie. So anyway, we got through the small talk. He said, I'm doing a movie, Blue Chips. I want you in it.

And I was like, I don't know nothing about actor. You don't have to do that. You just have to be a basketball player at college. I said, well, I can do that. And that's how I got in the movie. So you want me to be a kid that grew up, however I grew up, and a Hollywood producer say, Hey, you want me to say no, that's not going to happen.

Any other kid, if you meet a Hollywood produced, he wants you to be a movie, do it. I don't care how bad the movie is, you just do it. My takeaway today is I need to hang out the four seasons more often. Good things happen at the four seasons. Yes, I do. Was there any risk to you to doing that early in your NBA career, that kind of stuff off the court?

Michael wasn't doing those kind of things. No. Magic wasn't really doing those kind of things. No? No, because we have to take advantage of all opportunities. I don't know when I'm going to get those opportunities again. And I realize that you're doing a lot of stuff, but this is the bread and butter.

So make sure that this outshines everything else. So I know when I did a album, people, whenever we lose, or if you weren't doing videos with notorious BRG and doing all those rap albums, you probably would have won't. And I understood that. But what that did was drive me to become better. That's all it did Like I knew

I knew the probability of me Win the championship early on It was very low But the more I lost The more I got upset The more I trained I knew it was coming And we just had to have the right pieces

And we finally had the right pieces And then when you add Phil Jackson To that mix a guy with a stellar resume That's a win-win win You got close in Orlando Really close Really close 95

And I broke a rule What? You celebrate it too early. Because we beat Michael Jordan, which nobody has ever done. I want so much money on that with kids. Who's the last guy to beat Michael Jordan in the playoffs? Nobody. You better Google me, buddy.

Yeah, $4.95. So we beat them. I'm partying like a mug. I got a 60,000 square foot house. I'm bringing people over. Because in my mind, I already had the championship won. Right. But you broke the thing.

a major rule. The basketball guys paid me back very nicely because I had already won. I was already celebrating. We already had a little mini parade at Disney and you know, I was, you know, I was always I was always playing, oh, we're going to beat these dudes in six and I'm going to go to Miami and run a yacht.

I was out there. And then the king put it on me. But before you succeed, you must first learn to fail. So what that taught me was, if I ever get back to the finals, I'm going to dominate so hard that nobody will ever beat me again, ever, ever, ever, ever. And when I was, when I got back,

that that's what I tried to do. You won three in a row and you won the MVP of all three of those finals. So you definitely did that. Yes. So more basketball questions for you then, if I could. The greatest player you ever played against? Well, from my position, it would be Akeem Elijah. He was a guy that I could not break mentally or physically. Greatest guy I've ever watched. Live is Michael Jordan. The greatest guy to get me to want to become an NBA player, Julius Irvin. The greatest guy that I watched how he navigated through the sea of L.A. On and off the court, Magic Johnson.

A guy that's not afraid to say was on his mind, Charles Barkley. I'm going to make sure of a lot of guys. That's true. I'm going to make sure of a lot of guys. So if you had to do your all-time starting five, I know this is hard. All-time NBA starting five. Do you have one? Kobe and Mike.

Okay. That's the one and the two. The three, I got to go with Bird. Okay. Four, I got to go with Malone. And five, I've got to go with a team. You left somebody out? No.

You're not first team? No, I'm not first team. Not at all. Okay. Can I give you my five? Tell me what you think. But let me tell you why I'm not first team. One day I was riding around with my mom.

I'm Shaq. I'm the man. I was a little bit arrogant. My mother says, it's not always about you. And no man whatever is, excuse me, no man is never supposed to talk back to his mom or disrespect. So when my mom talks, it's gold. It's scripture.

And she doesn't say things like that much. So when she says that, I'm like, you know what? You're right. She got everything, but it's not about you. See that homeless couple over there? Go help him out. And she was the one who taught me the concept of, what if you done to make somebody smile today?

Ain't about you. Everybody can't do what you do. Yes, you're blessed and all that, but why don't you bless somebody else? So, why don't she tell me that? And I'm glad she told me that early. Like, people ask me all the time, I always leave myself up.

It ain't about me. Because when you ask me that question, that puts me back. fan of them. So now I'm a fan. So now I'm just like you. Right. So that's, but yeah, so I would probably never put myself on one of those lists anyway. She taught you humility. Oh yeah, I'm all day every day. Okay, here's my time you tell me what you think. Magic, Michael, LeBron, Shaq at the five, and then hear me out on the power forward, I slide Bill Russell into the four, the back end defense there. I can't be mad at that.

Okay. That's just I can't be mad at that. How about the current debate, LeBron or Michael? It's not a real debate unless you have Kobe Bryant in that mix. So you think Kobe's better than both of them? I don't say he's better. It's not my job to say who's better. He's adequately equal, right?

Like in your field, I put you up there, right? I definitely put you up there. But there's a lot of other people who have different opinions. That's why I like conversations like this because it's all opinion-based. Yeah. But me, from my perspective, I don't want to have that conversation unless you put that name in. Right? It's like saying, who's the best big man and you say Bill Russell and Wilk Chamberl and you leave out Kareem.

Or you say Kareem and Wilk and you leave out Bill. No, put those three in. Now we have a real conversation. So I don't think it's a real conversation without Kobe. Kobe but I don't know the answer to her but my answer is I got to go with Mike and Mike said something I never heard anybody say so I don't want to say I'm the greatest of all time because it's disrespectful to the other ones that played before me so that's how I kind of answer when they ask who's the greatest big one

of all time and you have these conversations as you said with Charles and Kenny and Ernie on the set yeah with with with everybody yeah everybody asked me on talk who's the goat we're right so what about Kobe most of time they go oh you right. Good conversations. And then I think to make it fair to everyone, I think we should go by error. Okay. Because one thing about sports figures and superstars and anchormen and anchor women, we all come and go. That's true. We all come and go. Somebody's going to bring something different. So I think to make it fair to everyone, I think we should we should go by errors. For example, when I was coming in, the Chicago Bulls dominated that area.

And then Kobe, myself, and the Spurs, we dominated that. And then after us, I think, probably Boston at Miami had to run, Golden State is dominating this era now. So I think it's fair if we did it like that. But, you know, one thing about opinions is everyone has one. Opinions are like hair follicles. Skipped over that one nicely. So what about the Golden State Warriors? Do you think they win again this year?

Yeah, definitely. Yeah? I have way too much talent and the way they play. It's actually a pretty good brand of basketball. Yeah. Because when everybody's involved, that's when your teammates rise up. I had to learn that early that you've got to keep everybody involved. That was part of the leadership thing.

I had to learn how to, you know, be a true leader rather than trying to do it by myself. For example, your show's fabulous, right? You ain't doing it by yourself. You got a hell of her producer. She's a point guard. You got a shooting guard. You got a sound guy who's a power for it, and we went as a team. The business that we're in, it's not an individual sport.

So unless everybody is clicking. Imagine if the sound guy didn't have the mic on. We'd be like this right now. And people would be like, what did he say? What did he say? So everybody has to be on point. Everybody has to be in sync. So when the team is running beautifully, you have a higher chance of winning that championship.

And they could go on for a while. They're all relatively young, right? This could be something we've never seen before. Do you think they keep it together? And win five, six titles? No. Because a lot of people are coming up for new deals. Yeah.

And as a businessman, you can't pay more than three guys to max. Can't because it's a business. You've got to make money. Right? Yeah. You've got Steph, Clay, Dray, and Drainon, and Doreen, who all meet Max. And cousins. Yeah, yeah.

So they're going to break up at some point. Can you give me some hope for my New York Knicks? No. Which is. Which I don't understand. It's crazy. If I was the Young Shack with my mindset, because remember, I'm all about life after basketball, too.

Wall Street, are you kidding me? You know how many times I can go in a restaurant and get some stock tips legally, of course, Mr. IRS? No, I would love that. So I don't understand why New York is not a destination with some of these players. I would definitely relative. That could change.

this year, theoretically. I hope so. Maybe they get Zion, K.D., Kyrie, something like that. I hope so. But if I was a young guy, if my son was coming up now, I said, go to New York. I got you back. And I'd hook him up with every guy.

Hey, man, this is a guy from Goldman Sachs. Right? This is a guy from this firm. That's what it's all about. LeBron kind of did that, right, with the Lakers. He's setting himself up for the next chapter. That's what he's supposed to do. You think he did the right thing going to L.A.?

I did. It's a good thing about our stories. It's only a few people that stories go like this. But everybody else is the regular stories go, Orlando, Swet, Lakers. Lakers are not that good. Phil Jackson. Oh my God, oh, they win, they win, they went.

Oh, Shaq and Kobe, they have a problem. Oh, let's get rid of Shaq. Shack's done. Oh, Shaq goes in Miami, it was D-W-8, right there. Shack's getting old. Trade him here. Trade him here, train him here, train him. Shack has a career Indian injury.

What's he going to do? We don't know, we don't know. TNT, Emmy, Emmy, Emmy, Emmy, one more sure. So, you know, that's what life is. And being that I was raised by a military man, when you fall down, you get back up. You get back up. You mentioned TNT.

Is that show as much fun to be on as it is to watch? Because they allow us to utilize our humor. Ernie, let me tell you something about Ernie. Ernie reminds me of you a little bit, very professional. Ernie is the funniest guy on the set. don't let Ernie fool you and then you got Chuck Chuck's don't say whatever you want

and you got Kenney you got me they allow us to utilize our human because we figure look you're up in 1 a.m. We got to make you laugh

yeah most people got to go to work in the morning but most people like sports they want to hear in-depth you know conversation or interviews about their team

so if we're going to keep you up at 1 a.m., we want to make you go to bed like that because we need to you go to bed like that, hopefully you have a great day the next day. But that's you if you're team won. If your team lost, you're going to be in the mood like this. We want to get you out of that

mood. But to me, why it works is, yes, you guys are funny, but the credibility you guys have as Hall of Famers, to say the things you say, you're not like a sports talk radio guy ripping somebody. Because when I was in fan mode, listening to people, my first question is, how do you know?

Right. I understand, but how do you know? I don't know. I don't know. I don't been to every situation in me good and bad, so I know. Not an expert, but I know. What's the one thing, Shaq, in your career? It doesn't have to be on the court. It could be off your most proud of professionally,

as you look back on the chapters you've had along the way. I'm most proud of that I was disciplined enough to continue my education. Because when you're young and you're getting a lot of money, You don't know what you do with it, but you're just following certain steps and you're still successful. You never think about the end. But it's always an end. It's always an end. A lot of people, and for example, there's a lot of ice in this water.

They ain't going to be cold forever. If I leave this here for 30 days, guess what? It's going to be room-timp, nasty water. Right? So it's always an end. The people that don't see the end are the ones that get drunk. I saw the end from a beginning. And then for me, it wasn't about making money.

It was about being able to, mom, you want to go to Paris? I'll take care of it. Simple stuff. Brother and sisters, hey, I need a down payment to a house. Here you go, love you. Simple stuff for me. Want to be able to just, you know what? I'm tired today.

Let me go to PJs. Oh, here's my convertible, 64. Four of them, like, just to be able to maintain, right? And then along the way, you just do stuff, you just do stuff. stuff, you just do stuff and it keeps coming and it's coming. The stuff that I do is not monetary base. It's joint-ventureship base, relationship-based, and just children-based also. I want my kids to be proud of it. So the best thing I did was just continuing to learn, just continue to have fun. And to do it all on that 25%. 25%. That's a good lesson.

Thanks so much for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear Shack answer burning questions from a very special guest, my nine-year-old son, George. Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Shaquille O'Neal. So when my son was young, you know, four or five, six years old, he'd throw questions out from the back seat when we were driving. Right. These philosophical life questions.

Good. And he views you as almost a mythical God in size and strength, loves you. So he asks, these are three honest questions he asked. me. Maybe you can help answer. Excuse me, Dad. Could Shaq just pick up a cannonball and throw it instead of using a cannon? To answer your question, young George, yes. What you have to say to yourself is the cannonball real? No. So I would get a black ball painted the color of a cannon ball, and when I pick it up, you will see the muscles. So it would give you an impression that it's real heavy, but it's not heavy, and then I would throw it. And then you go, man,

Shack's strong, but I'm not that strong. But you can be strong if you listen to your mommy and daddy and follow your dreams. You can have whatever you want. That's a great answer. That's a great answer. Okay. One more. Dad, together, could you, Shaq and Andre the Giant lift a car?

Yes. Your dad's not going to do any work because your dad is the director-leader type. If you look at your dad, he has this sexy Ted Kennedy look. I hope when he's done with this, he runs for governor. Your dad looks like a governor. But me and Andre would do most of the work, and then your dad would come in at the end and give us that final push.

So yes. All right, actually, this is the last one. Dad, who's stronger? Shack, Andre the Giant, or Bruce Lee? I don't have to say me. I think that's right. You don't have to say me. Even though Andre Giant was very strong.

As a kid, I met him in the airport. Did you really? Yeah, and I just shook his hand. He was a strong. strongest I've ever met in my life. And I tried to be real strong, because I was, like, in wrestling mode. Like, I was a kid like, yeah, Shaq, but. Like, I used to do stuff in my head, Shaq, body slam, like that.

So I was like, Mr. John, I'm a family. Oh, Lord, he shook it. I was like, damn. My dad was like, you're going to be strong like that one day. I was like, I am. Yep, if you listen to me. He was right? Oh, yeah, it was right.

Thank you, man. Thank you. My thanks to Shaquille O'Neal for a great conversation, such a generous, warm, charming guy. He's everything you think he is. And what you don't hear there is what happened after our sit-down interview at PJ's Cafe in Georgia. We were supposed to go just the two of us to this park where there was a basketball court

that we'd found. And we were just going to go to the two of us shoot around and talk a little bit. But when we pulled up, there was already a group of, I'd say they were 11, 12-year-old boys, maybe 6th, 7th grade, playing pickup at lunchtime with their teacher. They're watching. So imagine their surprise when out of that job. jacked-up pickup truck steps Shaquille O'Neal, all seven-foot-one of them. Jaws dropped. Shack? A few of them said. And Shack being Shack walked right up to him, brought him into a huddle,

gave him a pep talk about life, and said, all right, let's play. So we played a game of pickup. I had to guard Shack, unfortunately, with a bunch of these sixth-grade kids from Georgia. It was incredible. I can't imagine what they must have been thinking. I knocked down a jumper. I took Shack outside, knew I couldn't handle him on the interior, took him outside, a little pull-up jumper, hit it. And I think I made Shaq mad because on the next possession, he demanded the ball, backed me down, and dunked on top of my head like you've seen him do to so many victims over the course of his great career. Thank you again to Shaq. Thank you again to all of you for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast this week. To hear more of the full-length conversations

with all of my guests, make sure you click subscribe so you never miss it. episode. And don't forget to tune into Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sitdown podcast.