Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Sterling K. Brown

Episode Date: November 17, 2019

Sterling K. Brown is best known for his role as Randall Pearson, the adopted son and adoring father on the hit NBC show “This Is Us.” In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist talks to the actor about the huge success of that show, the 13-year grind before landing that breakout role and his emotional connection to his new movie, “Waves.” Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along with us. My guest this week is another good one, I think. Actor Sterling K. Brown, you know him, of course, as one of the stars of the hit NBC show that people have to watch with a full box of tissues. This is Us, the tearjerker. Now in its fourth season, an amazing cast of which Sterling K. Brown is an Emmy and Golden Globe winning member. Joining me now, as always, the producer of this fine podcast and the producer of the Sterling K. Brown interview, a two for this week.

Maggie Law. Hey, Maggie. Hi, Willie. Before we get to the important business of this interview, we have some more important business. More important, arguably. Since we spoke last, Maggie Law is engaged, everybody. Come on. Yes.

Yes. You've got a nice rock sitting on your finger. Yes, yes. My eyes are blinded by the reflection in this fluorescent light. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. You're like me. You dated your fiancé for 100 years before you got engaged. Actually, 10. We met at boarding school, and we've been dating since the end of junior year of high school. Yes. So we share that. Christina and I dated beginning junior year in high school.

We dated for a long time, broke up for a little while. You had a little break. And then we found each other again. I will say we did not have a little break. Ten years strong. And here we are. I'm telling you deep roots are good for the marriage. Exactly. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm very excited. Let's talk about our interview. Yes. Sterling K. Brown is a guy I'd met a couple times, didn't know well, had really high hopes for the interview, just based on what I know of them as being sort of not just like a smart, interesting guy, but also this sort of electric speaker and presence. Personality. Right. I have to say it.

Absolutely. He was electric. I think it's a good way to say it. He really, I feel like he brought it to the interview and just the nicest guy. You just love when you meet them and they're just so nice and they say hi to everybody in the room. And they're just like there to, I don't know, I feel like he really brought it to the interview. Yeah. One of those people you hope they'll be who you think they are.

Exactly. And he was. And he was. And he was. And he was. He, I think part of that is, is that he's earned his place. Absolutely. And we talk a lot about this in an interview.

He was sort of on this 13 year grind of small roles in TV. He says, look, I was happy. Acting was paying the bills. I got married. I bought a house. Right. But hadn't had that sort of big break in Hollywood. And then in the fall of 2016, along comes, This Is Us.

People versus O.J. Simpson. Oh, well, that was her. Right. He won the Emmy for that, right? People versus O.J. Simpson, when he played Johnny Cochran, that was earlier in 2016. And then shortly after, This Is Us comes up. And that's what really says. Put him on the map.

That changed everything for him. I think he says, now things are stupid good. So things were always good. They were always good. Now they're stupid good. A little background for people. I know you like to paint a picture in your mind as you listen to these interviews of where we are. We're a place called the public theater in New York City, a famous, famous place that's so many of the actors.

I venture to say every famous actor you know has played a part there or started there in New York City. And we're upstairs in the library there. Yes. Yeah. Sterling, actually, that's what he asked to do the interview. It's one of his favorite spots. He went to grad school at NYU, so right nearby. And he said when he was in school there, everybody dreamed of performing at the public at some point. We always wanted to do Shakespeare in the park and everything like that. Eventually, he got to do a show there, I think, 2014. And so he requested to do it there. And that's

great spot. Yeah. And then you'll hear later we get up, walk around a little bit in Washington Square Park. Yes, Washington Square Park. And very cool moments of a place he used to walk around, dreaming of being somebody in that business. And now he draws the crowds. We walk into that park and boom, like flies to honey. Crazy. They came on to Sterling Kay Brown, all those This Is Us fans. His new film is called Waves. It's a lot about fatherhood. He's kind of a domineering dad in this movie. He lost his own father in real life at the age of 10.

To me, it was the best moment of the interview. And you can listen and see if you agree. When he started just going into the story of the day. And I will say, in an interview setting, it's hard to sometimes because of the lights and there's people around to get lost in the emotion. but it was as emotional as I remember being interviewing. I could tell you were really feeling it in that moment. It was emotional. He was so, first of all, I'm just grateful that anyone would share such a personal story.

Absolutely. Has that with me of the day his father died? And he was 10 years old. I have a 10 year old son. I think part of that hit me. What would it be like if I left my 10 year old son unexpectedly and in such a sudden way? And he remembers every detail of the day. And he volunteered it.

You know, it's not something I would ask him to describe because it is so traumatic. But man, did he go there. Yeah, he did. It was really emotional, but it felt special that he was able to share it with you. And significant because it's how he tapped into characters in waves, but also in this is us. Also in this is us. Yeah. Talks about how it's sort of like a cathartic moment for him, being able to sort of say goodbye to his dad in a way.

All those themes are there. Okay. We've described the interview enough. We just let Sterling K. Brown tell the story himself. Sterling K. Brown, right now on the Sunday sit down. podcast. Sterling, thanks for doing this. Thanks for having me, Will. Great to see you. Back at you. We got a lot of history to talk about you in this neighborhood, you in this theater. This is my stomping grounds, dude. I went to NYU from 98 to 01. I lived at

one astor place right around the corner and so the public was this fixture, like this beacon of when we get out of school, maybe we'll get a chance to work at the public. Maybe we'll get a chance to do Shakespeare in the park. And I've got a chance to work here on a couple of occasions and it's been magical every time. I was telling you, I've interviewed a number of actors who said, I want to do the interview at the public theater. What is it about this place that's so special for people who don't even know about it?

There's all these people that come through here. Right? So, you know, like, Meryl Streep has done Shakespeare in the park. Liev, like you said, I've seen him do Hamlet. You see all these actors whose careers you want to emulate, and they could be off doing all these fancy movies and TV shows, et cetera, but they take time to make sure that that muscle of being able to tread the boards never atrophies, because they care about the art of illuminating the human condition. And that's sort of what was embedded in my fiber at grad school at NYU.

And so it's something that I keep coming back to over and over again. I mean, you look at the faces on that wall. It's every major actor you've ever heard of. It's kind of stupid. They've all been here. All of them. And you too. Yeah.

So we'll talk more about. that, but I said to you when we were walking in here, it's the highest compliment I could pay an actor is I didn't know where to begin with you. You have so much going on right now. I appreciate it. But let's start with the film, Waves, which is unique and different than anything I've seen. It tells a beautiful story and it really uses music well. How do you describe this project? When you first read it, did you get what they were going for? Man, that's a good question. It's hard. It's complicated. It is complicated because it's a hard movie to describe to people. It's a family drama that focuses more on the children of this family.

It's an African-American family, mother and a father, a son and a daughter. And the first half of the movie sort of is the son's half of the movie. And the second half of the movie, you kind of shift narratives, and it becomes the daughter's journey. There's a major tragedy that happens in the midpoint that I'm not going to give away. But it also sort of shows how a family deals with grief. loss and how you keep moving forward with grace and with love. And the music is huge. Even like I said in the script, there were music cues laid into the script so you could press a button, listen to a song as you read the scene.

Our director, writer Trey Edward Schultz, had something very specific in mind. And the movie is autobiographical, I should say, and then leaps into narrative fiction and then back in autobiography and then to narrative fiction. because I say that because he is white, right? And this movie focuses on an African-American family, but because he hired Calvin Harrison Jr. To play the role of the son in the family because they worked on a film before.

It comes at night. They sort of collaborated and said, like, tell me something about your childhood, about your father, about what it was like for you to grow up in New Orleans, et cetera. And so they combined their narratives and came up with this story together. And it was a real collaboration.

from the onset. And I think we came up with something special. It is. It's unique. It's unlike anything I've seen before. You're in a good position in your career where you can get a script and sort of decide whether or not it's something that's worth all the time that you put into a role. What was it about this story that jumped off the page to you? Okay. So I was shooting This Is Us at the time. And my agent and my manager read the script and they said, we think this one's pretty special.

I was like, guys, I got a job. I'm on the show. And they're like, yeah, but check it out. If you like it, maybe we can make it work. First and foremost, it was something completely different than Randall Pearson, whom I love and adore. But now that you have the opportunity to not be locked into one character and to be known solely for that character,

I try to take advantage of those opportunities whenever they are offered to me. No, to keep going with that point, About 10 years ago, there wasn't the same sort of fluidity between film and television. Right. And now that it exists, it's like, I'm a kid in a candy store. I'm going to jump around and play in as many sandboxes as I can. This guy was, is a father in Waves, who is very much present for his family, but is a hard man, not the easiest father to get along with.

And so I enjoy the challenge of inhabiting people who aren't readily. likable, but who are humane, who are good. And my goal is not to be liked, but to be understood. So I enjoy the challenge of finding someone who people will be like, I don't know if I like this dude, but trying to find his heart. And I think the character has a really beautiful journey. Without giving too much away, I think he recognizes by the end of the film that the way that he is in the beginning didn't elicit the results that he was looking for

so that there is a strength and vulnerability that he has to access in order to continue going with his family. Yeah. Because of the heartbreak he suffers, which we won't give away. He has to look at himself again and say, that I have some role in this. Yes. Did you bring any of your own parenting?

You've got two boys. I do. To this role. I imagine it's hard in some ways to separate the way you act as a dad and the way you raise your children from a character. Do you bring some of yourself to it? I think I bring all of myself to every character I play. Different parts of yourself come out with different characters. Like Randall is a dorkably sweet. And I think I have a sweetness to me. And then there's an edge to me as well. Please ask my wife when you get a chance. You'll be like,

oh yeah, he's got edge. There are times in which my son plays flag football and soccer right now, right? And I'll catch myself just barking on the side. Are you that dad? I can be Willie at times that dad, but I do it with the hopes of trying to instruct, right? And there are times in which he takes the instruction, and there are times in which he'll stop in the middle of the game, and he'll be like, can you please be quiet? And I'll be like, my bad, my bad, I'll bring it down. But like, we have a dialogue. I think that's the good thing about it. Like, I can hear when I go too far. Right. And he's like, I need you to press pause. I'm like, I got you, big dog. Backing up right now. There's another layer to that, too, which is the other

parents are looking like, that's Sterling K. Brown who's barking at the sidelines. It happens every once in a while. Yeah. But most of the other parents are barking right along with me. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're not alone. Not alone in the barking. By no means. You talked about this being a film about loss. Clearly, it is, and grieving. You had that in your own family, obviously, when you were a young boy at 10 years old. On the other side of it, how much of that did you bring to this part? I think the whole dynamic of fathers and sons is one that resonates with me and is resonating really strong right now.

My dad was 45 when he passed away, and I was 10. And I'm 43 now. And I think I knew that that was young when I was a child. but now that I'm two years away from that age, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's painfully young. And so I have this desire to sort of carry the old man around with me and infuse him into a lot of the things that I do, especially right now because he's just very, very in the forefront of my consciousness.

And I saw this relationship between a father and the son on the page, and it's not a perfect relationship. And I think there's parts of it that allow me, when you step into somebody who is imperfect, you may have been judging them, their imperfection, as if you are perfect and they should be perfect like you. But then once you step inside them and you recognize, well, none of us are perfect. And I truly believe that all of us do the best that we know how to until we know how to do better. And so there was a part of me that I was actually able to forgive aspects of us. of my dad, aspects of other men in my family who were paternal figures, because I recognized that the love didn't always feel loving, but it was love nonetheless.

I know exactly what you mean about the age, because when you were 10 years old and your dad was so young at 45, he still felt like a grown man. Absolutely. Okay, maybe that's when people die. But when you reach the age, you and I are, we're about the same age, you go, wait a minute. No. That wasn't fair? Not at all. Yeah.

Not no, it was way too soon. Way too soon. Way too sad. I remember, I think it was the first time I ever saw my mom cry because she wasn't a crier. I remember, like, really specific things. Waking up that morning and going into the kitchen and my mom being on the phone, calling the paramedics, and asking me to put clothes on my dad because he was

naked in the bed and his body was stiff, like stiff as a board. And I tried to like pull underwear up on him and it was uncomfortable for me. It was uncomfortable for him. He says, go get your mom. Go get your mom. I go back to the kitchen. I said, Mom, he wants you. And she got mad at me if you're not doing what she wanted, but she gets him dressed.

The paramedics come in and they carry him out and we have a split level house so you have to go down the steps to get to the front door. And as they're carrying him out on the stretcher, he looks at me over the railing, and he winks. Just winks. They carry him out the door last time I saw him. Last time I saw. But I will say this about Sterling Brown, Jr. He filled me up with so much love, Willie.

Like I was his only son. My mom has two other biological children from her first marriage. and I have an adopted brother and sister who when I got 25, she's like well I guess I should start all over again and got a six month old and then my little sister is about a year and a half younger than my little brother.

But so I was my dad's kid. Yeah. Right? Like I was his boy and we were tight. Like I like football because my dad likes football. I like boxing because my dad

likes boxing. I love football. movies and television because my dad loves movies and television and we would watch movies for hours. It was the beginning of, don't tell you, mama, you're watching this. You know what I'm saying? And we would watch things that were completely and totally inappropriate, but I would watch and I would see the joy that he would derive from it and the joy that I would derive from it. And maybe on a subconscious level, it would be like, man, how cool would it be to bring that kind of joy to lots of people? Because it was transnational.

transportive for both of us. And so while the time was short, it was everything that I could have hoped for for 10 years. I have a 10-year-old son right now. Yeah. And so the idea of being separated from him and leaving him that quickly with a wink is unthinkable to me. Do you ever think it's unfair? I mean, you talk with such love and joy and you find a blessing in it. Sure. That it led you to the career. found and succeeded in. Was there a time, though, where it made you angry? Oh, yeah. There's a time. I think so. From 10 to 16, I did not grieve my father's death, right? I didn't think that I could cry. I thought that I had to be the man of the house. Right. Like, mom is crying. I got to keep it together. There's also growing up Christian

believing that he was in a better place. And maybe that, like, he'd been sort of unhappy. He lost this job as a grocery store clerk at Kroger's stores and have been laid off for a few months. And I could see, learned a valuable life lesson. What I do and who I am are two separate and distinct things. And I have to know who I am first and foremost because if I am ever taken away, if my job has ever taken away from me, I still need to know my own personal value. And I saw his value just declined in his own eyes and his sense of self-worth, right? But so at six years, I was like, oh, he's in a better place.

And, you know, he doesn't have to be in pain anymore. And then I turned 15 or 16. I just boohooed. And I can't even really explain it. Like grief works in funny ways. But I just bawled and I missed him. And I was acting and I was playing varsity football. And these are like two of his favorite things.

And he wasn't getting a chance to experience his boy do these things that he loved so much. And I felt the loss, right? And that's when, because I went by Kelby, right, until I was 16. And I was just like, no, it's time to be Sterling. It's time to hear that name again, because when people call me by that name, I get a chance to carry a piece of him with me. So there was a period, but I'm a true believer that all things work for good, and everything happens for a reason. There's a lesson in it at all if you look for it, right? The circumstances don't define us, but our reaction to those circumstances is what matters.

And so I'm, I just take the blessing, bro. That's it. I had 10 good years and I want to make sure that my kids have more. You know what I mean? I want to make sure my kids are 8 and 4. So he's just two years away. So I feel like the template for fatherhood, I kind of, I got it for the next two years. And then after that, I'm in a whole new territory, right?

We never had the sex talks or anything like that. So those things are going to be coming down. I'm like, all right. I'd just be making it up as I go alone. Listen, I saw the pictures of men's health. I don't think you're going anywhere anytime soon, man. I appreciate it. Thank you.

I loved the moment when you won your Emmy, too, and you got to stand on the stage and say some of the things you just said to me to the world about your dad. What did that feel like, knowing that he in some way inspired you to get to that place where you ended up? It was magical, man. Like, that's a... It's a magical...

view that not too many people get to take in. You get to stand on this stage, and it reminded me of this year, Jarrell Jerome won Best Lead Actor in a Limited Series, and everybody stood up in applauded for him because his performance was outstanding. And I don't know if I was outstanding or not, but people stood up. And it was this overwhelming moment of like, wow, you guys. see me as like belonging as being worthy. To be embraced by your peers in that way

was a really sort of overwhelming moment. But to get a chance to share him and my mom with the world, yeah. Yeah, it's cool. And then also too, I know he saw it, right? Like, I know he was there, and he was very, very happy. Yeah. There's no question.

Yeah. As he sat and watched those movies with you that he didn't want you to tell your mom you were watching. Exactly. You couldn't imagine you'd be one of those people. No, dude. Right? I remember we watched The Terminator. I was like, five.

What am I watching The Terminator? Isn't that part of fatherhood, though? My dad, when I was nine, took me to see Beverly Hills cops. theater. And I remember sitting and going, are you sure I should be watching this? He's like, this is just us. It's just us. That's it.

Don't repeat any of these words. This is us. I also don't think people realize because you came into most people's lives about three years ago, four years ago. You go back to OJ. How long you've been working to get to this point, that you had 13 and change years. to get to the place where you were standing on that stage and you were grinding and you were out here. You were on famous shows, but you didn't have the lead in the show.

Nope. Was there ever a point in those 13 years where you said to yourself, I don't know if I'm going to end up where I thought I was going to end up? All right, so here's an anecdote. I did, my first series regular was on an FX show called Starved, right?

And it started the same year as it's always sunny in Philadelphia. They were both half seasons. It was like seven episodes apiece. It was about bulimic, a group of people with eating disorders in New York City. And I played a bulimic New York City cop who would pull over bicycle delivery people on trumped-up traffic charges, steal their food as compensation, and then binge and purge. Right? One time I threw up, thought I was by myself on a pile of garbage and there was a homeless man sleeping in the garbage. and I told them to get a real house.

Don't know why it didn't last, but it was hysterical. Anyway. Is that a comedy? It was a comedy. It was a comedy. It was a comedy. It was, yeah, definitely dark. And so my mom watched the pilot, and I said, this is a good Christian soldier now, really.

You got to understand. I said, Mom, I appreciate you watching the pilot. If you don't want to watch anymore, I am. understand. And my mother touched my knee and she said, thank you. Like she tapped out as quickly as she could, right? So the show goes at seven episodes. We don't get renewed, but always sunny in Philadelphia. My man Charlie Day and all those guys go on for like 15, 16 seasons. It's crazy. We finished the show and my mom goes, do you want to come home now? I said, my, I was just a series regular on a TV show and she's like, yeah, but that show ain't the one, baby.

And so this is, she wanted me to turn it in because she didn't think it was going to work out. She had expectations as parents often do. Sure. I graduated from NYU and I've gone to Stanford University for undergrad, NYU for grad school. I said, God, we spend a lot of money on this degree, right? I know there's no guarantees on things working out in any particular. way, can I please pay my bills by doing what it is that I love? If I can do that, I call it a wash. I have paid my bills doing nothing other than act since I graduated from school, right?

And everybody has a very different path. There's temp jobs and different kinds of day jobs, bartending, catering, et cetera, et cetera. I've been blessed to be able to tell stories, to pay my bills. So that first 13 years in change laboring in obscurity was fantastic. I paid off my student loans, right?

I bought a house. I had a son. I was married. Like, things were good. And then this last four years, things have been stupid. So it's not like I ever anticipated this

moment to happen. Right. The 13 years was what I thought it was going to be, and that was success, right? To be able to work at what you love, that success, this is just gravy, like delicious gravy. I had a great biscuit. Now I'm just sobbing. I'm sobbing, and it's just stupid good. You were happy with good.

You didn't even need stupid good. Bro, I was, my first job out of school. So I moved up to Harlem, and I was in New York for 9-11. I was living in Harlem and a four-story walk-up, and the water pressure got worse, the higher up you went in the building. And so when I took a shower, which was a shared shower for the hall, not a shower in my apartment, right? There's three apartments on the hall that all shared a shower.

Sketch. Sketch, right? And the water pressure was so bad. I had to move my body around like that. this, so it would get my whole body wet, right? This furnished room, which had one window, and I had my little green fan, everybody knows the little rotating fan, I would lay down on top of the bed in my birthday suit. This is not pornographic.

I would lay in my birthday suit because it was so hot the summer of 01. I would get up. There would be a perfect sweat imprint of my body on top of the sheet. Like, I would ride the bus up and down 125th just for AC, right? This is real talk. Right? But the room cost $85 a week. Okay.

And my first job was at the classical stage company for a Kafka short story turned operetta called In the Penal Colony. Right? It was directed by Joanne Acolytus with original music by Philip Glass. And I didn't speak in this role. It was a movement thing where I just did choreography taking care of this prisoner, right? I made $300 a week for this gig. I cleared 215, and you couldn't tell me nothing. I was doing the do, man.

I was in New York City as a working actor, and I could not have been happier. And it's interesting because I think about that time, and I've been experienced so much more success, and life is incredibly fulfilling right now, but, like, for pure joy points, I don't know if I've ever been happier. It's interesting too.

Don't you think there's something about earning over those 13 years of where you ended up? I was thinking as you were talking, I interviewed Orlando Bloom about a month or so like this. He graduated from college and the next day was on the set of Lord of the Rings. And he didn't have that in between. And he talked about having to sort of go back

and do theater and learn how to become a good actor. You had all that training and it was almost like this last four years have been a reward for all that work and that apartment you lived in, uptown. It feels good. And it also feels very much appreciated. Yes. You know, because you know that those moments don't come around.

Like, this last four years, to be able to go from OJ to This Is Us. Like, it doesn't happen like that for a lot of people, and it doesn't happen with great frequency. I'm incredibly appreciative of this moment. I know so many talented people that don't receive this moment. So I know it's not a pure meritocracy.

You know what I'm saying? Like preparation meets opportunity. That is luck, right? But you have to be prepared for it and you have to be presented the opportunity. And I got that and then things changed. So what was the moment for you when things changed? Was it the acclaim you got for the people versus O.J. Simpson?

Was that the first big pop? Or was it before that or was it this is us? When did you start to feel like, Like, okay, things are changing for me here. I would say on the set of OJ, we would have, the editor would come up to Sarah Paulson and myself and be like, you guys are cutting together really nice. Got some serious chemistry. And we'd be like, oh, thanks, buddy. Appreciate it.

I'm glad you're enjoying it. And then the producers would be like, Brown, just keep doing what you're doing. He's that you're becoming the heart of this series. I was like, guys, Chris Darden. like nobody likes christmas but he was like no no for real just trust us and i was like okay i'll keep doing i'm doing and um and i remember going home one day and my wife was giving me a hard time because she wanted to go work out and i was trying to work on my lines and i can be become sort of obsessive i go into the garage and i just like lock myself in for

hours and I just work it and work it until I feel like I get it to a place where I want to present it to people. And she's like, I need you to come watch these kids. You're still a father. I'm like, I know I am, but I'm trying to work on something. Just give me a second. And she's like, all right, because I don't lose my temper that often. And so she saw that, like, I was really trying to focus.

Because I knew something special was in the ether. You know what I mean? and when we finished shooting, I was like, I know I've watched some wonderful performances. I've sat across from Courtney. I've set across from Sarah. And I was like, I know that these are wonderful performances.

If I happen to be in their range, maybe something could come from this. Right? So as we started to get towards the end, and I remember Brad Simpson, one of our producers came up to me, he says, don't take another job until after the first six episodes

come out, right? And I was like, really? He's like, trust me. I'd already booked this is us. You're like, uh-oh. I was like, I already got a job. And he's like, oh, well, you're all right. But that was a special moment because not only do you feel the confidence of people sort of

knowing your work before, you're sort of reproving yourself with each job. Like each job is not leading to like the next great job. It's just like job, job, job. And it's not like steps that go up, right? After OJ, it was like steps. And it was like people saying, what do you want to do? How can we be in partnership with you? And you're like, me?

Right? After like just waiting for people like, please, I have some more. Like all of a sudden they're like, we want to work with you. And you're just like, wow, it's crazy. And that's a crazy thing because you spent 13 years having to prove yourself in every room you walked into. Yeah. And now there's just happy that you showed up in the room with them and they're trying to get you to do their show. Yeah.

It is amazing. And is it true that on the set of OJ, you were working through This Is Us already, like getting that audition ready because you knew that could be something special too. Yeah, I was, I told Paulson and I said, I think I found my next job. And she's like, you want this one? I was like, yeah. She's like, go get it, right? So we'd be sitting at the prosecution table, and I'd be reading the script and looking at Randall's monologue in the pilot when he goes and he costs his father. And I was like, ooh, this writing is really good.

And you don't come across a lot of network television shows where the writing pops off the page and grabs you. But Fogelman has a way of grabbing you with his words. And so I went in to audition for a meeting with him. And I got to gush because I love crazy stupid love. And my wife and I is one of our favorite romantic comedies. And so I gushed. And he's like, yeah, tell us when you're ready for your, you know, come in when you're ready. I was like, okay.

So I prepared and I came in and it went really, really well. And he was like, the room was rooting for you. You know, the room doesn't always root for you in my history, in my experience. But now this new thing, this intangible thing called Buzz, you always look at people. people like, how do they get that buzz? Like, where does it come from? And then all of a sudden, you have buzz. And it's cool.

It feels good. Like, you can feel it. Like, when you walk into a room and you can feel the energy shift in such a way that, like, I can't wait to see what Sterling's going to do, rather than being like, who are you? Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, it makes a huge difference. And so you get the part, obviously, famously.

what do you think it is about this is us that has so connected with people now in its fourth season the hope of it, the goodness that's the word you've used to describe it, family, all those things come together. Why do you think it is connected

the way it has? I think it has because we're disconnected. I think we as a society are very sort of bifurcated divisive. It's very hard to have a conversation with people that doesn't frequently lead to an argument. Talking about politics or talking about just the state of the world, you know.

And this show is something that I think, whether you're in a blue state, red state, whatever your religious affiliation, like people know, recognize and appreciate the importance of family. And the show is about family. So it's like we get a chance to put our side our differences for an hour, every Tuesday for about 18 weeks out of the year. And it's not about us versus them. It's this is us, right? And I feel like people sort of defend themselves consciously,

unconsciously about being attacked or being sort of put in a box in a certain kind of way. And now folks just feel sort of like collectively they get to enjoy the experience of this Pearson family. And we go through so much. We go through adoption. We go through anxiety. We go through dealing with obesity.

Like, we deal with so many different topics that people see themselves in one or all of us in varying degrees. I think there's a certain kind of reassurance in knowing that you're not doing it alone, right? And like, hey, Randall understands what I'm going through. And maybe it's not so bad. You know, if Kate and Kevin get it, it's not so bad. it takes away the isolation and it brings us together. I think the show in a beautiful way brings people together. There's no question about it, but there are a lot of shows that attempt to do that.

Sure. Right? Yeah. There's just something different about that. And I think you're right. There's somebody on the show that everybody can relate to. Yeah. That he's like me, she's like me.

I've been through that same thing. And there's also, at the heart of it, loss. Yeah. There again, there's a show. goes up again. Was that something you were able to tap into for this show as well? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, yeah, absolutely.

Like, you know, Randall has two dads that he's lost. And with William in particular, my biological father, as soon as I saw and knew what that story arc was going to be, it sort of presented me with an opportunity that I didn't have when I was 10, and that was an opportunity to say good. by, like to be present at the crossing over of my father. And I found it strangely cathartic, right? Ron Seafus Jones, who was a brilliant, brilliant actor from New York City, who has worked at this theater as well, and a beautiful soul.

It was a joy to play with him and sort of the parallels between, between Randall and Sterling, I was able to access in a real direct way with regards to saying goodbye to William. It was kind of like me getting a chance to say goodbye to Sterling Brown Jr. And some things are just meant to be, Willie. Like I was meant to be Randall, you know? I'm sure other people would have done a wonderful job with it, right?

That's not saying like I'm the, it was just meant. for me. It's impossible to imagine anyone else there now, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. So it's cool to catch you in this moment where things are going so well for you. Yeah. I'm curious how you're handling it on the celebrity front, your wife, how she handling it when you're on the cover of magazines and everybody knows you walking down the street. And I imagine we talked about your acting foundation. Yeah. The foundation of your relationship that she's known you long before you were Sterlingay Brown No doubt. Celebrity.

So how are you handling that as a couple and a family? One day to time. It's interesting. Celebrity is interesting. Even using the word is difficult. Yes. Right? It's like, am I a celebrity?

I was like, yeah, I guess so, right? I think of myself as an actor. And because of what I've been able to accomplish as an actor, I've gained a celebrity. Nothing kills peripheral vision quicker than celebrity. And what I mean by that is New York City is one of the great places

in this world to people watch. Yes. Right? So many different people, ethnicities, race, creed, color, et cetera, et cetera. And you just watch fascinating people all the time until everybody's watching you. And then you get, right? I put on her.

I put on hats or whatnot. And it's not because I feel ungracious or anything like that, but you're still a regular human being that's trying to accomplish things through your day, right? And no one knows that. Like, no one sees you as a regular human being anymore. They're just like, yo! Yo!

Right? Not so much in New York and L.A., but it still happens. Yeah. Right? In Middle America, in St. Louis, where I'm from, oh man it's hard to go to the mall like it's hard to go to the mall and so there is a fight for normalcy for me in particular for my children right so I had to establish a couple of things I no longer take pictures when I'm with my family one day I was at church and some people

were really big fans of the show and like they started queuing up and like can we take a picture and I was like yeah yeah sure no problem no problem I said Andrew my oldest I said would you hold daddy's jacket. Andrew took my jacket, threw it on the ground, stomped on it. And I was like, big boy, did I do something? Like, what's going on? He goes, well, you just stopped doing what you were doing with me so you could take pictures with these people,

so I guess they're more important than I have. Strangers. Yeah. And I was like, Lord, have mercy, this kid hits you. Like, people underestimate the intelligence of children on an emotional intelligence level. You shouldn't do. Oh, yeah.

Because they know what's going on. I said, I will never do it again. And he's like, whatever, take the picture. I was like, no, I won't do it again. So the next time that we were together, we were getting off of a plane. And these really nice people were like, yo, we didn't want to bother you on the plane. But we're really big fans of the show. Were we all right if I took a picture.

I said, I'm sorry. I'm with my family. And when I'm with my family, I don't take pictures. Could you take a handshake or a hug instead? And they were really cool. And my son looked at me, and he said, you remembered. I said, I got your back, bro. Like, you deserve all the things that I had as a child that you take for granted.

Being able to go to a park and kick it with your dad, right? Like, every kid is entitled to that without their dad being the center of focus. Right. Right. And so you find the balance. You're like, hey, nice to meet you. Thank you for the love. I appreciate you.

Now I'm going to give back to my kids. Right? It's interesting. My wife is much more gracious because she's a Thespian as well. And so she laughs and she looks at people and they don't even know. They think you this nice dude and you all this and all that. America's daddy, they don't even know. And I'm like, I know.

I try to tell him bird, but they won't believe. She's going to go public on you one of these days. Here's who he really is. She already has. She already has. But it is, I don't know what I thought it was going to feel like. I'm the dude who likes to go to the Vaughans and to Trader Joe's or Whole Foods or whatever and do my shopping. And I still do.

I fight for it, right? And what it means is I acknowledge you. I see and I say thank you. And then I just try to keep it over. That's right. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes I put on headphones, just to block things out a little bit. And I've had people like tap on my headphone.

And I was like, that freaks me out a little bit. No touching. Right? People will grab you. Sure. Well, especially because you come into their homes and they feel like they know you, right? And it's like, I get it. And I'm never ungracious because I do know what it's like to meet someone that you're a fan of and they blow you off.

And it's the worst feeling. And I'm not going to put that on anybody. So it's my responsibility to be as cordial as. as I can in the moment, right? And also to get back to my family. I think that's a good way to handle it. Yeah. Find that balance.

One of the other great things about being the position you're in now is your production company. Yes. That you get to take stories and lift up people who may not otherwise have a platform or a voice. Why has that been so important to you? Very few people afforded the opportunity to start a production company.

You know, it's not like, I'm going to start production company. Right? Like, there's opportunities that are presented to you, and you feel obliged to take advantage of them because you know how much help was needed in order for you to get to where you are, right? And if I can make it easier for someone else coming up behind me to get their story out there.

Like, we complain about diversity. I as an actor have been like, how come there's not more roles for black men, black women, et cetera, et cetera. Now, the way in which you solve that and fix that is you have to have as many storytellers behind the camera putting those stories out there, right? So it's not about just what's happening in front of the camera. It's what's happening behind the camera as well. And if I really have a problem with diversity in Hollywood and I have an opportunity to be a part of the solution, then it's my obligation to take advantage of that opportunity, right?

So my production company, Indian Meadows, is named after my neighborhood in St. Louis, Missouri, working class African American neighborhood, where I came from, and that I carry with me everywhere that I go. And in order to, for me, be successful, like, I can never experience that disconnect. Like, I feel like some people, when they've become celebrities, sort of be like, all right, now it's time for me. me to be a new person, right? I was like, the person I am is the person that got me here. Like my sort of accessibility, I like people. Like, I really like people.

And just because people sometimes can kind of bombard me, I was like, I get it. They're being sweet or whatnot. But I still like you. I still love you. So I got to hold on to that. So naming the company, what I named, it just reminds me is like, this is who you are. This is where you came from. Don't forget.

Just don't forget. In terms of the stories that I want to tell of marginalized people that are sort of relegated to the sidelines sometimes, but it's changing, right? And we're seeing more people of color front and center, more minorities front and center. And I just want to be a part of intelligent diversity in storytelling, right? I'm looking for that black flea back. You know what I'm saying? And then like the things that excite me that seem to be relegated to just mainstream, like how do we make sure that we put a little bit of color into that as well?

So that's what I'm looking at them. And what a legacy to leave, right? If this goes on for a long time, and so you expect it will to watch somebody grow up on the opportunity you gave them and be sitting in a chair like this someday. Oh, dude. If somebody comes out and I was like, yeah, I remember I did this Indian Meadows production, and that was my first chance to do something. That would mean the world.

That would be bigger than any acting gig that I had. And acting is what I love, but to be able to provide opportunity for other people, that's something that's special. Like, I think about Andre Brower, who won the Emmy before me, the actors that have come before, the Denzel's, the Paul Robesons, the Ozzie Davis's, etc. like these guys are giants that endured. Paul Ropeson did Othello on Broadway and could not go to a cast dinner with his cast because of segregation, right? Like these dudes endured all of this

so the Brown can get up and make people cry, man. Do a damn good job of it. I appreciate it. You can tell you firsthand, my wife crying constantly when he watches you. Well, you led me into the next thing I was going to ask you about, which is the fact that you were a historic actor. I mean, you mentioned Andre had been 19 years since an African American actor, had won that award. And then your Golden Globe, the Ami's, you are a historic actor.

When you stood on that stage, you weren't just the latest guy to win best actor in a drama. You were the first to do something. Do you stop and think about that as part of your legacy, or is that just too much right now? Way too much. Yeah. It's way too much and it's way too surreal. Yeah. Because like firsts were supposed to happen a long time ago, right?

Right. You know, like, Jackie Robinson did this a long time ago. Like, it's 2019. It was 2018 or 17 when it happened. I was like, firsts? That stuff is still happening? Like, I never thought I'm not the dude who's at the avant-garde or like at the forefront of like movements per se. I'm a guy who deeply loves everything that he does.

And so when I was told for the Globes in 75 years at that time, I was the first African-American male to win best lead actor in a dramatic series. For SAG, which was only 25 years or something like that, but the first, I was like, oh, gosh, like, this isn't happening, right? Like, is this me? It dawns on me from time to time. Like, I have a place in my office, which is in the back of my house, and the awards are on a couple of different book shelves. And from time to time, I look at them. I'm like, oh, crap.

Like, I won this stuff, right? It's really cool. I was like, I never anticipated winning any of this stuff. And to be the first of anybody to do something, I feel ill-equipped to be the first. I feel like I should be much more articulate. much more sort of militant. I don't know. Like, I feel like the first of the people,

they're, like, prepared to be the first. Like, you know, you have those conversations with Branch Ricky, and you're like, this is what it's going to be like, kid. Like, nobody talked to me about any of this crap. You're like, oh, I'm holding the trophy. It's me. Holding the trophy.

Well, I promise I won't keep you here all day, but I can't let you go without asking about a couple of huge projects coming up. Frozen? I mean, come on. Being part of one of the biggest movie franchises in the history. Yes, I have young children, yes. Believe me. It's playing on a loop in my head all these years later.

How cool is that to join that? It's amazing. I took my oldest to see the first Frozen. And he's a boy with very boy-like energy. So when I would play the soundtrack for him, he'd just be like, I want to hear the first song over and over again. And the first song is like they're going, the guys are like chopping the ice.

Yeah, yeah. Born of cold and winter air and mountain rain combining. That's all they say. Yeah. And I can sing, yeah. Wow. I appreciate. Another talent.

Yeah. But I was like, you want to hear you want to build a snowman? He's like, no, I just want to hear the first. It's on repeat. So to be now of an age where he can go. and like appreciate the daddy's in it. My old, my youngest is four, and he's going to love it. Like he's just got a sensitive soul that's sort of built for these things.

Like the first movie that he got a chance to see all the way through was Coco. He made it through Coco, and he loved it. And I've seen just bits and pieces of Frozen, and it functions just as much as like an action adventure, or more like an action adventure than anything else. So it's got something for the ladies because we have our heroines that are at the forefront of the story. But like the boys who have boy energy, they're going to be riding this ride just as hard as anybody else. So they don't get a chance to see a lot that Daddy does.

So it's nice when they can see something that he does and vibe with it. That's perfect. Yeah, for that age too. They're right in it. Right in it. And then the other project that I'm asking about is the marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Yeah, man. Which if the story is true and this speaks to where you are in your career, you were like, I want to be in that.

that show. And they're like, yeah, you can be in that show. Is that the way it happened? Kind of. Really? Yeah, dude. I was like, I shouted out, Rachel. I was like, yo, if there's ever a way that I could be on your show, drop in, like, wreak some havoc or have some fun, let me know. And she's like, we would love to have you. And then the Palladinos reached out to me and they're like, we've written this role. We don't really see anybody else doing it other than you. Please come play with us. Right? And I was like, are you kidding me? Like, I just, I just, I just, I just, I put it out there and it's happening? Oh my God.

It's amazing. You living in that Harlem apartment uptown where you could just say, call somebody and say, I want to be on that show, would freak out if he knew that story. He would have no idea. I have no idea. Like, this isn't going to happen. Just be happy for your 300 a week, partner. You're living high off the hog as it is.

Get back on that bus for the AC. Exactly. No, we've come a long way, for sure. Stick around to hear more from Sterling K. Brown on the Sunday Sitdown podcast as he and I take a walk around Washington Square Park in New York, and he reflects on his time living in New York City as an up-and-coming actor. Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Sterling K. Brown.

First time I'm walking through Washington Square Park, you're from the Midwest, and you see like breakdances, you see people playing music, you see the old dudes playing chess, you got the students coming from NYU cutting through. Like it's sort of this magical, vast cornucopia of people just spilling in doing all these different things. And you're like, wow. Like this is New York City.

Yeah. Like I'm in it, dude. I love, I would cut through any excuse that I could to cut through Washington Square Park. Yeah. Always took it. Might get offered a few things you hadn't heard of before. I don't know. That's my experience.

I think, like, so the West Forth stop is over that way. And so I would get off on West Fourth when I lived in Brooklyn and cut through. here to get to school. And it was just... I talked about people watching. You know what I mean? Like, this is a place where you watch until everybody's not watching me.

Now, this is a good moment because years ago, when you were in school, you walked here peacefully and watch other people. Absolutely. And now everybody in this park is watching you. Is that a weird thing for you? It's kind of crazy. Yeah.

It's kind of crazy. Every once in a while I fool myself in the thinking, that I'm still an incognito. But then... I've never heard that term. But then it's like people stop and they pull out the camera. And you're like, I guess...

I guess not anymore. Judging by the number of cameras out, I don't think that's happening anymore. Not anymore. What do you feel, though, when you come back to New York and you get to walk around and revisit some of these places

that were so foundational for you? I remember the pulse that this city offers, right? It's a city that has a heartbeat, right? And you start to walk differently. I move faster with like a sense of purpose when I'm New York City. And I love that hustle. Yeah.

Right. In L.A. you're just kind of like, hey, you're sitting in your car and you're talking on your phone and you're chilling. But like you bump into people too. Like whereas in L.A., you have to plan to meet people. Right. But you can just walk around and be like, yo, Willie, what's going on, man? I didn't see you in a minute. But like because it's a walking culture, your access to people, you feel more connected in New York City than you do anywhere else in this country.

Yeah, subway too, right? I love the subway. Oh, dude, I take the subway all the time. And my publicist freaks out. He's like, why is he taking the subway? And I'm like, because it's my right. I am one of the people I can take the subway anytime I want to. He freaks out if I go for a walk.

And I'm like, I'm putting my hood on. It's going to be okay. I do feel like you said this poor New York's a little bit better, though. Like they might just give you like, hey, man, keep walking. They'll keep walking. Hey, love you on the show. Yeah, exactly. Thanks a lot, buddy.

I appreciate it. It's pretty easy here. And I see famous people on the subway all the time. Yeah. And they don't get messed with it. That's right. That's right. So it does give you a bit more latitude.

But I'm always surprised, especially for this as us, you think people are more jaded or not so cool like they're more cynical in new york there's huge fans everywhere yes every show's got a really beautiful follow and do you get the tears in person they come up to you they see you they remember an episode they want to talk about the show oh yeah yeah i'll get tears in person and then i'll also just get can i can i hug you oh and i'll be like yeah man i'm down for the hug and we just squeeze it and sometimes they hold her i was like all right We're good. Like, we're good.

And they're like, and then they'll let go. That's the power of your show. That's the power of the show. That's the power of the show. It's relatability. When people feel as if they see you and know you and recognize a part of themselves in you, they just want to share that. Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you, man. You got it, brother. Appreciate it. Right on. It's great. My huge thanks to Sterling K. Brown for a great conversation. And again, my gratitude for his opening up about such personal stories

and details of his own life and his childhood. And also for showing us around his old stomping grounds. His latest film, Waves, is in theaters now. And Frozen 2 hits theaters on November 22nd. Maggie, you're a big viewer of This Is Us. I am. I know when my wife has it on and I come in, there are always tears. I was going to say, is she just bawling all the time?

Yes. Yep, that's pretty much it. It's, I think somebody called it once, or they said, you know, America just needs a good cry. Yeah. And that's what happens. It's like, it's sometimes you just need that. Yes. And it's, it's, that's a perfect show for it.

And as he says in the interview, there's something in that show for everyone. Exactly. Somebody can relate to something. You can relate to somebody. Maggie, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Congratulations again on the big engagement.

Thank you very much. We'll see if this changes things on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always to all of you for tuning in this week. If you want to hear more of the full-length conversations with all my guests every week, be sure to click subscribe so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.