Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Taraji P. Henson

Episode Date: December 20, 2020

Taraji P. Henson is synonymous with Cookie Lyon, the unforgettable matriarch she played on the hit series Empire which earned her a Golden Globe award. But she has also won praise her performances in films like Hustle & Flow, Hidden Figures and The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist gets together with Henson over Zoom to talk about a different kind of project – her new Facebook Watch series Peace of Mind with Taraji, where she hosts open, honest conversations about mental health. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. If you've been with us for the last couple of years of this podcast, even longer, Sunday today on NBC. You know, we're going back to some of our favorite guests for a second interview. And we got another one of those today for you with the great Taraji P. Henson, the Golden Globe winning Oscar-nominated actress. You probably know her best for playing Cookie Lion on the hit Fox series. Empire, which just ended this year after six seasons. For all you Empire fans out there, we do get into whether or not there's going to be a cookie spin-off series. There's been some talk of that,

hang in for that conversation. She's had an amazing career, which we went all the way through in our first time interviewing Taraji, and now she's got this new project that we dig into today. It's a show. I call it a talk show, and she kind of semi-corrects me, but I think it is a talk show. It's called Peace of Mind with Taraji, and it's really a show. about mental health and taking away some of the stigma of talking about mental health. So the format of the show, it's on Facebook watch. It's a brand new show. It's her and her buddy Tracy Jade, who she's known since seventh grade. And they basically welcome her friends into Taraji's house. So it starts with them talking in the kitchen about what the topic of the day is. In the case of the first show, it's PTSD. Then the knock on the front door. And there's Gabrielle Union, for example, in the first show. And she comes. and literally sits on the living room couch in Taraji's house, and they just talk as openly and honestly as I've heard people talk in public, to be honest with you. It all comes out.

It's a really cool idea launched, as you'll hear Taraji discuss, because she felt like particularly in the black community, there is that stigma, and they don't talk out loud about mental health, and they don't talk about anxiety and depression, and Taraji has done that, and she's found that by, doing that. She's opened the door to a lot of other people in her life talking about it and her fans talking about those things that they live with in their own lives. So a really interesting conversation that goes far beyond Hollywood. It goes far beyond her movies or shows. We do get into some of that,

of course. But I think you'll really enjoy this important conversation about a new show right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast with Taraji P. Henson. Taraji, thanks so much for doing this. It's great to see you. Good to see you. Good to see you safe and healthy. Yes, you as well. You as well. And I can add to your long list of credits now, including being a Golden Globe winning actress

and Oscar nominated actress now talk show host on Facebook Watch. The show's called Peace of Mind. Where did the idea come from, first of all? Well, you know, we birthed the foundation first, the Boris Lawrence Henson Foundation, in honor of my dad. And then, you know, you don't stop there

because I felt like what else can we do? How it felt like it needed a talk show. The mental health crisis in the black community felt like it needed some urgency, something where we can reach more people. And Facebook was there. They understood our passion. They saw that this show is definitely needed.

And here we are. I don't, it's funny you call me a talk show host because I honestly don't consider, consider myself that. I don't know why. I just feel like I'm an audience. I'm experiencing, I'm having the same experience the audience is, but I'm just asking for the questions. Well, you're, no, you know what? You're absolutely right because when people here, Taraji has a talk show, they think you're coming out from behind a curtain and everybody's clapping and you're dancing. No, no, this is, for people who are getting ready to see it,

just describe the setup because it starts really with a ring at the door, a friend shows up, and then a conversation starts. It's literally a conversation on the sofa. Peace of mind with Taraji. We're all trying to find our peace of mind certainly now during these times. And, you know, it's me and my best friend. We start in the kitchen

and we're chatting it up with some tea or food or whatever. And we're talking about today's topic, whatever the topic is of the day. And we talk about who the guests are coming and then the guest is at the door and I greet them and we sit down and we begin our process. And we just talk.

And my hope is that people see that that's literally what a session looks like with the therapist. Yeah. You laugh, you cry. And the thing about it is everybody that comes on the show, and this is, I feel so good, they say they feel safe. And that's what therapy is about being in a safe place where you can unload. Yeah, and I mean, I think we were talking before we start here. It's so important to have a voice and a face and a name like yours saying, hey, this is part of my life. I deal with a lot of the things you deal with.

Was that part of the motivation to do this show is to kind of put yourself out there and open that door to other people? Absolutely. I remember when I first launched the foundation and I went before Congress to push legislature for mental health resources in the community and schools. And I remember I was so afraid because I was like, the headlines, the headlines, what are they going to say? And I just remember saying it, like, publicly, I suffer from anxiety and depression. And then I remember a big sigh of relief.

And then looking around like, whoa, I'm not alone. Hey, you suffer from, whoa. You know, it's like, it's such a burden to carry secrets. to hold secrets and to suffer and silence is such a burden. When you just allow yourself to be vulnerable, that is the strength. There is the strength, and that's where the healing begins. And the relationship with your friend Tracy who runs your foundation, which you mentioned, your longtime friends in seventh grade, that is a great dynamic to the show.

It's a great. Yes, it is. It's because you're immediately comfortable. You know you two have known each other forever. and you have sort of reversed roles where she was more open about her mental health way back when and you didn't quite get it back then. Is that fair to say? Yes. Well, you know, because of the stigma around it, we made fun of her.

And I did as her best friend. And she didn't take offense. She just took it because that's what we did, you know, but she still took her medicine. But, you know, and it's unfortunate because it's just it's ignorance. You know, it's just not knowing, uneducated, just. don't know or uncomfortable. And so, I cut to,

hi, best friend. I suffer from anxiety and depression now. She's like, oh, come here. Let me just help you out with that. All those years of me making fun of her. And that's why I feel like, that's why we both felt compelled to do something on a broader scale

because it's just information that we need to know. And the more you know, if you know better, you do better. You know, and for the teenagers, like, you know, a lot of things are, you know, a lot of parents like to say, oh, that's just, they're just being a teenager. They're just, you know, teenagers, they're in that funk. And that's usually around the time where mental health issues show themselves, present themselves. And I just know that so many parents watching this show are like going to feel like, Like I did.

I wish I knew then what I know now. You know, to watch, look for the signs, you know, and not write it off as just a moody teenager. Or this person is just difficult. You know, people, honestly, most people unless, you know, there are instances where you're just born a certain way because something is off in the brain where you just wreak havoc on society. You know, we, no, we've done study cases, case studies.

But then most humans want to please. They want to be nice. They want to be good. But when they're disruptive or when something's going on, there's usually a reason. There's usually a reason why. You know, trauma maybe most of the time is trauma. And people not knowing how to work through it. Or not even recognizing trauma, not even recognizing what trauma looks like.

When you say PTSD to most people, they think, oh, I don't suffer from that. I never fought in the war. I'm not a Vietnam vet. I'm not a war vet. PTSD is, I suffer from PTSD just looking at the news. A lot of people do right now. There's no question about it. And I think that's one of the great messages from the first episode with Gabrielle Union when you're talking about PTSD is you frame it around your father, who was, he served in Vietnam and definitely suffered from PTSD.

but then you come out, the three of you, and say, but wait a minute, there's a whole other piece of PTSD that can be about where you come from, how you grew up, the family you grew up in. So do you feel like it took you a long time to realize that maybe your childhood caused some PTSD in you? Oh, absolutely. I mean, just sitting down talking to my therapist,

I will just brush by something Because see, in the black community, we are told to be strong, pushed through that phrase, strong black woman. You got to be careful with that. Because what happens is we put, and that's how I found myself suffering from anxiety and depression because I had pushed through for so long. I just, oh, got over it. You know what I mean? Pushing through being strong. And then one day I couldn't push through anymore.

Pushing through was difficult. And I needed help. And so when I'm talking in therapy, all those moments that I thought, oh, I just, you know, water under the bridge, just let it roll off your back, you know, push through, be strong. Those were traumatic moments that now I'm having to sit with my therapist and unpack them. And so I'm trying to help people. I don't want people to suffer. I just, you learn better, you do better. So I've learned and I want to share my experience so that others, maybe they can cut through some of the muck that I had to go.

through to get here, you know? But it's scary going through healing and unpacking your trauma. It's very scary. And what I find and what I've been for, I'm learning so much. I'm not a doctor, though. But I'm just learning so much that people usually when they are, when they're afraid to change, because that's where it comes to, it's fear. It's fear of day facing those demons or that trauma, right?

they usually surround themselves with trauma buddies. And I learned this from this therapist, clinician, Jay Barnett, who is going to be on one of the later episodes. But trauma buddies. And so you surround yourself with people that remind you of that trauma, and you stay there and you stay comfortable. Because on the other side is too scary. Yeah.

wish people just knew that how freeing it is. When you unpack all that luggage, you feel so light. I mean, it is. It's totally liberating to say it out loud sometimes. Do you feel Taraji that there is, though, generational progress? We were talking a little bit earlier that my dad also served in Vietnam, and I know he wouldn't and has not sat and said, here's how I feel about it. Here's how I feel about my childhood. It's just not something you really did. Do you think we're getting better at it and shows like you're certainly helped?

But do you think we're moving in the right direction on it? Oh, absolutely. And I think particularly the younger generation, they're talking about it more, you know. And I think it's also, too, because, like, the parents, we're starting to, we have to take care of ourselves, you know.

So I do see a shift. I do see a shift. I, for me, the, up. My area that I'm really focused on that we're really focused on right now is the African-American male because there's still resistance there. But I do realize, and I'm seeing a shift in that though. I'm seeing a shift in that because you have Charlemagne, who has been very vocal about mental health for some time now. And I'm starting to see a lot of African-American male clinicians step up and become more public figures. I'm starting to see that. And I, we, we had, we did a virtual fundraising campaign for during the pandemic.

93% who signed up for the free services. We gave five services to each person. Um, worth women. And, um, don't, seven percent were men. So in the third round, we focused just on men. And we, I mean, the outpour was astounding. I'm just so grateful because that makes me know that they want to, you know? Yeah.

And I think they felt special that we singled it out just for them. You know what I mean? And they felt more inclined to sign up. Oh, this is for us. Like, we'll do that however we get them. We don't get this healing. I was interested to hear you say, though, because so much of this does feel pandemic focus, because we all feel this anxiety. We all are keeping something inside and we're worried about the world and worried about our neighbors and our people and our family.

But you actually started this developing it before the pandemic. It just sort of came into this moment. I mean, listen, we started this, what, two years ago? Can't remember. That's crazy. Two years ago. And then we rolled right into getting the show together and then the pandemic here. Talk about perfect timing.

Because literally we blew all of the money that we raised to make a big splash in the community. We wanted the world to know we were serious. And this was a foundation that is going to make an impact. So we used all of the money to host all of these therapists from all over in Washington, D.C. and I put up a lot of my money as well. And then we found ourselves like broke. And I was like, Tracy, how are we going to maintain this? Like we have to do scholarships.

We promised this. We got legislation. Then the pandemic hit. See, that's why I really stopped looking at the pandemic as a curse and a bad thing because so much good is coming out of it. You know, and it's all perspective. It's all how you see it. And the moment I stopped looking at it in a negative way,

I started seeing all the beauty out of it because we were able to raise so much money and help so many people. We couldn't have done that if this pandemic didn't happen. I'm not wishing that a pandemic happens. No, I understand, yeah. I understand what I'm saying. Of course, yeah.

I mean, Jesus, the blessing that came out of this and the people that are being helped and that will continue to seek therapy after this, like, wow, couldn't have planned this better myself. Yeah, it's a silver lining at least, right? Some good that we can take out of it. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Taraji P. Henson right after the break. Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast.

Now more of my conversation with Taraji P. Henson. How has the pandemic been for you, someone who works nonstop and has done so much in her career? What's it been like to sort of just put on the breaks for these months? First, at first, it was fun. I was like, ooh, yeah, a break. Then after a while I was like, okay, then that's when I bought this. Started directing yourself. I just was walking around the house going to cut!

Because I started to get it. get a little nutty. And then I then I sunk into a depression because I work, work, work, work. I work so much that I'll be forgetting. My mother's like, how come you didn't tell me you? I'm like, Mom, I can't remember it all. And so then it was a loan.

It was like, then you're hit. Then I write scripts. I'm never going to work again. What does this mean? And then that's when I literally had to shift my focus. and I started meditating more. I started back working out because it's like now

it was almost like I had to reinvent myself. Like what am I going to do now? But then I went out to my salon. I have a salon here that I was using as literally my glam room for, you know, to get dressed for things like this. But then I started playing around out there and I learned how to cut hair and I learned how to make wigs

and I've been doing my own nails. Really? And then you know what? And what I realized through therapy is that I'm a creative. I'm a creative person to the bone. I must create. So I couldn't create the way that I'm used to creating in front of a camera. I found another way.

You know, I noticed those nails. And I was going to say, come on. We got another career for you. You know, I'm a survivor. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to survive. No one doubts you. No one doubts that you will. I also saw just the other day. It was a release that you were going to star in and direct a new film for the first time. How cool is that? I am so excited. And I really, I, you know what, I didn't want it to direct at first. I remember on Empire, they kept telling me, you need to direct. You need to direct. You have such an eye and this and then the third. And I'm like, no, you guys don't sleep. I like my sleep.

But liking my sleep has actually helped me make my day. So then I finally, I said, okay, I'm going to direct. It's the last season. I might as well do it now. So I love it. I absolutely love it. The bug bit me. I want more.

And I think it was proving that I could make my day. And I made my day. I mean, the crew, they were hoisting me up like, yes, I'm a champion. Because I was coming in at 10 hours. 10 hours. One day we had an eight hour day. Wow. Look at you. Because I'm on the other side, I know what it, I know what it takes. It doesn't take 10 takes. You know, if you cast properly, that's half the job done right there.

So that's why you got the slate there. Now I know really why you have it because you just got to get it already. That was before. That was actually before that movie was. Yeah. I literally got it. for my insanity. But it's a comedy. It's a coming of age, comedy. And, you know, when I was growing up, I didn't have a young lady to look up to a coming of age.

I had Molly Ringwall, which I did identify with her because she was poor and she grew up and her character was in a broken home, you know. But I didn't have, I didn't have somebody that looked like me.

And so I have to go back and take care. You know, And when you're dealing with therapy and you're healing yourself, a lot of it is taking care of your younger self. So this is me taking care of my younger self, my younger friend, my best friend, my younger, all my younger friends. And those little girls who didn't have this image, you know, and represent. I mean, what is it? Representation is everything.

It's very important. It's very, very important. It allows you to dream. and to see yourself outside of this little box that you're in, you know? Yeah, of course. Is it a crazy thing for you to stop and say, wow, there are little girls who are going to look at me and dream something different than they might have dreamed otherwise? In other words, you're right.

You didn't have that person growing up, but now these girls do. I mean, I know you're somebody who appreciates the journey, you know, who said, your dad spoke the dream into you while you were going to go be an electrical engineer at college. Is it a crazy thing for you to be in this position now where so many people are looking to you? It makes me feel good. It makes me understand that what I'm doing is very important and it's needed. And I don't take it for granted. I don't take it lightly because I know that eyeballs are on me and young little hungry eyes.

And I take that very serious. Seriously. Very, very seriously. Yeah, because I know how important art is. I know how art changed my life. Art gave me a life. It allowed me to dream. Where would I be without it? It broke. It breaks my heart that we don't have as much art in schools anymore. It breaks my heart. We don't even have schools anymore. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. But, you know, art is so important. It just really is. And I guess I get to see or reap the benefits of knowing I had these young hungry eyeballs on me when someone like Meg the Stahlia reaches out to me and asks me to be in her video

or when Cardi B., you know, reaches out to me. Because Cardi B actually when she first came out with her first album, she wanted me to do one of her videos. But I was on the show, we couldn't make it work. and then Meg the Stallion comes along. So that's a clear sign that people are really watching. Yes. Because I know they're my son's age.

They stop watching me. Well, it's respect to you too. You're the one they want in the video, right? So I've got to ask you before I let you go, this idea of the cookie spin-off. Do we feel like that's going to happen somewhere somehow? How are we feeling right now? I look, it's a special. It's special.

It's very much what they did with Mary Tyler Moore when she had her own show. And it was, you know, can this woman make it on her own? And she did, you know, and I think that's the message with this show that, you know, Cookie did so much for her family and for these men. And now she's on her own trying to build her own empire. I think it's important. And now, we're in the age of the woman. And Cookie deserves her spot in that movement, for sure.

So I think that's a yes. We're going to see Cook. You know, I don't like to count my chicken and my egg before the hatch, but, you know, it has to be bought. It has to be, you know, bought. But we're pitching the hell out of it. Just know that. They'd be fools not to buy it.

Taraji, it's always, that's it. That's it. Got it on the mic. It's there. It's always so great to talk to you. Thank you for what you're doing with the show. I think it's so important for so many people and it's always good to see you. Thank you and stay safe and happy and blessed this holiday season. My thanks again to Taraji for a great conversation. Her new series, Peace of Mind, airs Mondays and Wednesdays on Facebook Watch. And my thanks as always to all of you for tuning in. If you want to hear more of my full-length conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click subscribe so you never miss an episode. And of course, don't get you tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist.

We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.