Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - WICKED STARS: Cynthia Erivo on Bringing Elphaba to Life and Building Her Bond with Ariana Grande

Episode Date: November 8, 2025

Cynthia Erivo is a Grammy, Tony, and Emmy-winning performer who stars as Elphaba in the movie musical Wicked and its upcoming sequel Wicked: For Good. In this sit-down from November 2024, Erivo talks with Willie Geist about stepping into the beloved role, the unforgettable moment of seeing her first Wicked billboards light up Times Square, and what it was like working alongside Ariana Grande as the pair built a meaningful friendship beyond the set. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. I am very excited to bring in my conversation this week with one of the co-stars of the highly anticipated new movie musical, Wicked. Yes, based on the Broadway show that starred Kristen Chenoweth and Edina Menzel way back when. Cynthia Arrivo is my guest today. She plays Elfaba. She's the Green Witch, the Wyn Witch, the Wynch, the Wynnewitch. Wicked Witch of the West. In the story that takes us to Oz before Dorothy arrived, Cynthia plays

opposite. Ariana Grande as Glinda, the Good Witch. It's a phenomenal performance, and it's a show that Cynthia has loved since she was a kid. It originated on Broadway in 2003. It was based on a novel as well. She went and took herself to see it as you'll hear when she was 25 years old, had already memorized all the music, and now a dream come true to be starring. in this huge movie opposite Ariana Grande. So we get into the movie. We talk about how it came about for her, about how nervous she was

and how she just heard about the movie and development but didn't want to set any expectations that maybe they would call her. They did. She crushed her audition with the director, John M. 2, who also did Crazy Rich Asians, just as a point of reference. I got a chance to see it.

It is amazing for anybody. If you got kids, if you don't have kids, if you love musicals, If you don't love musicals, it is truly amazing. So I will get out of the way. So sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation right now with Cynthia Arrivo on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Cynthia, it's so good to see you. You too.

I'm so happy for you because I saw the film yesterday. It is absolutely spectacular. Thank you very much. What does it feel like to be on the cusp of the world seeing this thing that you have worked so hard on? I'm very, very excited. I feel extremely privileged to have been part of this huge, huge project. I just, I guess you mean have these dreams that you don't think are going to come through

or so you don't dare really to dream them that is one of those moments. This is one of those moments where it's just like, oh, this huge thing is happening but I'm going to take it bit by bit because maybe it's not real and then it is. So finding and feeling the excitement that people are experiencing and expressing

is really like meaningful and touching. It is. I mean, the movie's not out for a few more weeks but there's already this anticipation and this build. And obviously some of that is connected to the love people have for the Broadway show that was and is right around the corner from here somewhere. So what was your relationship with the Broadway show and the material? What did you know about it first? So I knew about the music before I knew the show.

I was at drama school. And a friend of mine, his name was Michael Peevoy. When we first started drama school, he sort of spotted. like on you. I think I must have sung something. He was like, oh, you can sing. I can play piano.

Do you want to, should we go off and play some music and just hear some things? And what he would do is collect a bunch of books from the library, all the librettos from different musicals, and one of them was wicked. So he would just play,

and I would sing, and we would go back to this book over and over and over again. And by the time I left drama school, I knew this music off by heart already. I knew it like the back of me. my hand. And so when I was 25, I decided to take myself on a solo date to Wicked in London and immediately sort of fell in love with the story and with these characters and with Elferberg,

particularly, just because of how different she was and how outside she felt. And I sort of immediately took to who this woman was. And then when I got to New York, I took myself to see it again. Oh, you did? Yeah. I've seen it several times at this point. And I think I didn't know that a film was coming. I think I knew it was coming a while ago and just didn't think it was ever going to come my way. And then when it came back again and it was, we knew that the film was being made,

I just asked no one to tell me. Because I just, I really wanted to be a part of it, but I didn't want to let myself be hurt by not being asked to come in. so I just waited and when it finally came in my way was raring to go. And the phone call comes in

and you sort of keep that same posture which is don't tell me who else they're talking to. Don't tell me who else they're talking to. Don't tell me anything about it. Don't tell me who they don't want to see anymore. I don't want to know anything. Just tell me when they want me to come in and tell me when I have the material

and I will go in and do whatever is necessary. I don't want to know anything. It just was like as long as I can feign ignorance about what's going on. I can sort of protect myself and be and just be open to what's in front of me. Did you go into that audition with the confidence of someone who had kind of grown up on the music and was so familiar with it and had such love for it? Confidence of being familiar and ready. I trained to go in for that audition. I really worked to be ready for it. I didn't want to go in just sort of

carelessly or without care I wanted to go in with them knowing that I had gone away and done my homework and done my work before coming into the room yeah and the story goes that you go into the room

what did you sing you remember all of it all of it did um defying gravity I did The Wizard and I I did for good because I was working with two other actresses for good and I I want to say that we maybe did no good deed, but that might just be my memory merging with everything.

I did those songs. And we did some scene work. And John asked me about my relationship with Wicked, and I told him about what happened in drama school. And I think it was only at that moment that I realized that what I was doing at drama school was using this music to sort of find a space for myself to create a little safe haven

whilst I was in a place that I felt really unsure about and it made me really emotional and I didn't realize that I had that kind of relationship with it but I learned in that moment that that was what I was feeling. You mentioned John, the director John Chu, he has said since then that you did your audition, you walked out of the room and he said we found Elphabat. And I, like, and I, it blows me away to hear that

because I just, I knew I had put everything on the, the table. I knew I had given everything I could give. And you never know. You never assume until you know. So the fact that that's how he felt when I left the room means everything to me. It's interesting to hear you say you feel a connection to Elphaba because so many people do. I mean, even in your childhood growing up, maybe you felt like an outsider at times. You felt different, certainly at many times. Is that an important part of what you bring to the character? I think so. Yeah. Just like the understanding of of what it feels like to be an outsider and feel different.

And I think the reason people connect with Alphabah is that so many of us feel like we're on the outside, and so many of us feel very, very different. And I think that's probably why I related to her, and I cared so much about this particular character because I know what it feels like. And so I guess I funneled all of those experiences and feelings right through her. Obviously, when you think about Wicked,

you think about Alpava. Yes. And then you think about Glinda, of course. Did you have any sense during that audition process of who they might be looking at? None. I mean, when I say don't tell me anything. The only two people I knew about, the two people I had to audition with in that room, I didn't know anyone else. Wow.

Okay. So you were really locked in? I was, like, locked in. Yes. So when did you first hear that they were either talking to or had given the part of Glinda to Ariana? I had given the part to her after I found out I had got the part. Okay. Yeah. So she was on board. You said yes. And now we've got our too.

I think we kind of found out almost at the same time. So they were, I think they knew they were going to be telling me and her on the same day. And then I found her shortly after that she was also paying. What is that phone call like to hear you're going to be Alphabet in a major? Very dramatic. Production. It was really dramatic. I had an, I had an email first from my agent who pried on my very Capricorn. sensibilities of like business and making sure that everything is done and like what do you need for me. Um, he had said that there was a book that we could get the IP for and that we should talk to the author about because it felt he felt like it was a good piece for me. And I said, great, what do we need to do? And I'm in London. It's 1 a.m. in the morning and I'm half asleep, but if we have to have a

conversation now, we should have a conversation now. So I get ready and I put my glasses on and I sort of set my iPad up because I know I'm going to be on Zoom and I click the link that I'm given and John Chu comes up and I, but it doesn't click because I think, well, they said it was a book, so it's a book. It could be, but maybe we're not talking about that right now. We're going to talk about this book. So I get on and other people start popping up and I'm still not allowing myself to really believe what this is. I think there's a small part of me that maybe has an inkling, but doesn't want to fully like... Right. Don't allow yourself to go there.

Don't go there. Yeah. Until you hear the words, it's not that. Right. Right. So then John starts talking about this girl who was at drama school who felt like she was outside of herself and would take this musical about this green girl to this room and sing the music and knew the music the back of the hand.

And then he... And I'm like, what is this? And then he says, I don't know what planet you came from, simply, but I think the rest of the world should see. And I just broke. Because I don't even think I was remotely articulate. I remember saying, thank you so much. And I just cried.

I cried. So I just, you don't think those things happen. And have big, big moments of people believing in you and your talent and what you can do and what you can bring. and the effort that everyone went to to share the news was just so, it was so special. I will never, never, never forget that. That's beautiful. I got chills hearing you say that.

What a moment in your life, you know? Yeah. I'm curious if there's a moment where it goes from that elation and that emotion to, oh, dear God, I'm carrying a pretty big torch here. I think, I think, I think, when it was announced that we were doing it, I think then, because I think we knew that it was like, oh, there's something big happening. But when we were announced, I think is when we were like, oh, yes. Oh, we have to do this. Okay, we're doing this. Yeah. And then, and, but, but you get,

like, continuing, continuing, um, realizations, moments of realization that, oh, this is, this is a big moment. This is a huge responsibility. Whether it's, when we, the first, day at rehearsals, the first day that we start testing makeup, when the makeup is complete and we have everything, the first day on set, the next day on set. And Ari and I used to joke that every day was a big day. Not one day felt like it was a small moment because they're all iconic things, you know? So you just go with it. Hey guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Cynthia Arrivo right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with Cynthia Arriva.

As you get into the role, are you able to block out of your mind all of the expectations that people may have about it? You have to because everyone has an idea of who she is and what this role means to them. All I can really do is tell the truth of the story in front of me and with the script and the words and the music. be as truthful to my telling of it as I can be and wish and hope that people connect with with that version while still being very conscious of what has been and what's come before, but not co-opting those creations because those

versions belong to the women who made those versions and so mine is to give a version that's as truthful to me as I can that pays homage to the work that's gone before. Yeah. So you've got the role, and then they tell you, Glinda will be played by music superstar Ariana Grande. What's your first reaction to that? Good.

Fantastic. That makes complete and utter sense, is my reaction. I'm like, that makes all the sense in the world. I cannot wait. This is going to be good. This is going to be fun to do. Yeah. And so you have a meeting, I think at John Chu's house,

is that right? And you sat down and sing? Yes. So first time we meet, she comes to my house and we sit, we just talk. We were on my floor, just chatting. And the second time we get together is at John's house. He has a dinner. And then dinner finishes and we all gather around the piano.

And Stephen Schwartz is playing for us. And that's the first time we sing. And we sing for good together. And we realize our voices work together. And that for us is a really big moment because now we know we can really do this. We can really do this together, not just as actresses, but as singers too. So the language that we both really love and speak well, we can share with each other, which is a very intimate thing anyway.

And the chemistry, the two of you built, just jumps off the screen. You can't fake what you see up there, it feels like. And I love behind the scenes just reading other things you've said and R&F said, the support that you had for each other. This truly was a collaborative effort with you too. It couldn't have been any other way. And we knew that from the beginning. That's what we needed to do.

Both of us agreed to come together and just be good for each other to each other. And be honest and be caring, create the space that we needed for each other. Because that's what this story needs. And I think both of us also knew that we wanted more than just this working relationship. We wanted to build friendship outside of it, which is what we have now. I love the idea, and I don't know how common this is on other project you've done, that you've texting each other at the end of long time. You are great today. You were great today.

Like that energy must be so beneficial to the film. And sometimes it would just be, I love you. And that's the end of the day. And that's how we are. We function like that every day now. I've already spoken to her today and I've already texted with her today. We know what we're doing. I'm going to see her later on.

I saw her yesterday. Like, this is our life now. And even when we were apart and sort of like waiting for the film to be made, we would still text and call and send videos and pictures. And, you know, I'm on my treadmill doing my walk and she might be on her treadmill doing her walk. And I sometimes just send the sound of the treadmill. And she both went on your treadmill and where you are, you know, that we really like building and cultivating a real relationship outside of work. But because of that, our work, I think was fortified because of it. Clearly it was.

And such powerful voice as the two of you. I was asking you before we started about singing live in the movie. Can you explain to a viewer, the layman, who doesn't understand how that works, why that was so important to you? Yeah. So for the both of us, even though we can record and we do that, and what we do at the beginning is we record the music so we can do all of our rehearsals so that we know where things are and if we have to rewind things and restart things. and then we can do that. But when we got into Situ and we were on the set, doing the piece,

we found it very, very important to sing live on set because it meant that we were further connected to the work that we were doing. And I personally am not the best lip-sinker. I don't think I am. I think it's an incredible skill to have, but I don't have that skill. I like to connect with the music.

And I felt like it was very helpful, and I think she did as well, to be able to sing into the emotion and into the action, it meant that we were there, present. So when you see our mouths moving, you can see our throats moving, you can see our muscles going in our necks,

we're singing. You know, it's real. And that's so for people who watch it, the songs you're hearing in the film are happening in that moment. It's not, things pre-recorded. It's just there. And, you know, sometimes you would get there

and you would sing something and you'd think, oh, actually, I want to try something new. There's a song called Wasn't an Eye. the very end of that was not recorded, I did it on the set because I wanted to try something new, so that's what I did. The makeup, obviously, is a huge part of the role of Elphaba. I understand it was two and a half, three hours a day. Does that sound right?

That's right, yeah. So that's a big addition to... You have all these other ways you need to get into the character, but then you have to sit there for three hours. How did you get through that part of the process every day? I mean, I found it quite pleasurable. I had been asked what I wanted to do. There was a choice of doing CGI or doing practical makeup.

And for me, it was never a question. I always wanted to do practical makeup because I wanted to see the transformation as well. And I felt like there was something very different about walking into a room and being green when there are people who are on the set who have never seen you any other way. And the reaction that you get, that's pure and real. And I wanted that feeling. There's an atmosphere that happens when a person is walking into the room who looks like alphabet. And I didn't want to deprive myself of that or our day players or our background actors or even Ari, you know,

to be able to see the elephant in the room, so to speak, that we're all navigating, right? And I asked to do it. And it took between two hours and 45 to sometimes four if we were doing full, like body as well. So sometimes, depending on how much green we were using. And I think it was just wonderful to watch it gradually become Alphabah. So starting with me, and then bit by bit, it would become this green-eyed, green-skinned lady, which I loved. And everyone took such care. Everyone was so careful with it and so detailed.

And there were loads of... I started to know about what time we would maybe have my ears and my... face green. When do we have the freckles done? What time do we have my eyes and my lips done? When the hair comes in, styling, and then we get into costume. So it was little pieces of method that strong together that I sort of enjoyed being a part of. And I asked to be active as well, so I would always do my own lips and do my own eyeliner. And just be involved. I would help with styling my hair sometimes and we would decide what we wanted to do with it. It felt like a really collaborative process, which I love. I live for that. Do you remember the first time you saw

yourself in the mirror as Elphaba and what that felt like? Yeah, it was surreal because it made it very, very real. And it was all of a sudden, oh, she's in the room. This woman we've been thinking of and imagining now exists. I felt really giddy. Yeah. And, and, I felt really giddy. and emotional because here she was. And how I wanted her to be, you know, how I imagined her. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for a viewer, it's like, oh, wow, it is.

Like, we're walking to the room and seeing you for the first time. Yeah. It works and then you just get lost in it. Stick around for more of my conversation with Cynthia Arrivo right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Cynthia Arrivo. There are so many iconic songs, of course, in the music. that you and Ariana sing sometimes together, sometimes separately. Define gravity, perhaps the most famous among them.

And my gosh, the performance, I don't want to give away too much, but as an important part of the film, as someone who grew up and studied the music and sang with your friend at school and saw the show a couple of times, what was it like to be delivering that song that is so important and famous, iconic in your mind. It was a big deal.

It felt like, and the process of getting to it was also like a marathon. You know, you take time. It was one of the last things to be filmed, if not the last thing to be filmed. And when I say the last thing to be filmed, we had to stop because of the writers and actor's strike. So it was the last thing slated to be done. So we went away for six months before I could come back and do it. And right before we get to it, I got ill.

So we had to wait another week or so before we could actually do this thing. So it felt like the universe was testing my passion for it. And my passion never waned. And then finally I was able to just be and let go. It's one of the most gratifying songs to be able to sing just because of what it feels like to sing, those notes you get to sing, and the words you get to say. to be able to proclaim no and nobody in all of us is ever going to bring me down.

To say I'm defying gravity, whilst defying gravity, is just one of the most thrilling, most meaningful things to me in this moment, particularly, because it feels like to be in this place now feels a little bit like defying the odds, defying any limitations that might have been set for me. by myself or otherwise, to be honest. And to be able to proclaim it, it feels like also claiming it. Yeah.

It does, even from the outside, feel like a big moment for you. As an actor, you're so accomplished. You've won all the awards. You've been nominated for Oscars. You've been Harriet and Aretha and the color of purple. And we can go on and on and on. But does this feel to you like a leap?

Yeah, it feels like a big leap for me, a big moment for me. and I'm really proud of it. I'm really proud of being able to be a part of it. Whatever happens, you know, it's been, this has been a ride. You know, what's kind of neat to think about is, as important as the Broadway show remains and was to you. This will introduce an entirely new generation of people.

For them, this will be wicked. Yeah, that's really special. That's really special. It always dawns on me. My goddaughter was walking through a store, and she saw a doll on the, in one of the aisles. And she said, that's Auntie Cynthia.

It's a green doll with a witch's hat and it's a version of Elfla and she recognizes that as me. Which is beyond. It's just, that's awesome. It's that. You've been at this a while. I mean, going back to the young

Vic and drama school and all the steps you've taken along the way. Does this feel like a moment to stop and say, I've done okay? Yeah, yeah. I think so. Yeah. I think so.

Yeah. It's been a long, long journey. It feels really, really good. This feels gratifying. Yeah. All the work was worth it. Yeah. I think so.

Yeah. Well, you've delivered. Thank you. People are going to be absolutely blown away. Thank you. By your performance, by Ariana. We were talking about the cast. Michelle Yo, Jeff Goldblum.

What can you say about the group that's... That we, just, I don't know how, John did this, but he assembled a cast of people who are deeply caring, deeply loving, deeply gracious and kind people, open people who want to do the work, who want to tell the story to the fullest, who will make space for each other. And I'm so glad I get to be a part of that. Michelle is just one of the most incredible people I have ever met. On set and off.

And Jeff Goldblum makes me smile every single time I see him. He's amazing. He's just wonderful. And then you have Johnny Bailey, who I spoke to yesterday, who's like getting ready for all of this as well, who at the beginning of this was rehearsing for a film, shooting something, and then coming to rehearsals for this. He was doing double time and still showed up, like, ready and open,

and amazed everyone. And I just think that we have been really lucky to be a part of a group of people who care just as deeply as each other about this wonderful piece. And I think that starts with John Chu, to be honest, because he's one of the most incredible people I've ever met and had the pleasure to work with. And he is also very stuck with me. I told him I'll go with him wherever he wants me to go with him. Because I just, it wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't for him. Well, you guys have taken something that people already love and frankly elevated it. Yeah.

I mean, you've given it some not just new life, new energy and modernized. And it's just, it's beautiful. So all I can say is congratulations. Thank you very much. And I understand there's a big old billboard of you out in Times Square if you want to take a quick walk and check it out. I'd love to. I'd love to. All right.

Thanks. After our conversation, Cynthia and I popped up from the table and went for a walk into Times Square because I wanted to show her for the first time, the massive wicked billboard with her face on it. An emotional moment for her. Take a listen. So you've done your time on Broadway. I have indeed. Good to be back in the community here.

It is. And I try to visit as often as I can. I see as much as I can as well. I always love being in a theater and seeing everybody's work. And it always feels a bit like home. Yeah. You know? What is so special about that Broadway?

community. It's not actually that big, it turns out. No, no, no, it's very small. And I think the special thing is that they, we will have to be live every night. So we're a part of a thing that's always changing and moving, even if the script is exactly the same, you know? Right. You're always having to take on whatever energies in the theater that night and transmute it or ride the wave of it. And you're sort of bringing what some people see on TV. lead to life, you know? And I think that that's a really special thing. And because we're all working together,

you end up becoming a bit of a family. Right. You're spending eight shows a week, six weeks, which is about six days a week together. Yeah. Which is more time we use than with a lot of people to be there. And at Christmas time, we're spending a lot more. Yeah, yeah.

Because those shows run on. Right. So it's a lot. Somebody said for the immediate reaction from the crowd. That's right. Yeah. We're wicked. You shot it a couple of years ago.

Now you have to wait to see everyone feels about it. Yeah, there's like an anticipation for it. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what they're feeling immediately. Yes. Which is lovely.

They'll tell you what they want. There's like a learning that you have when you work in theater, you get to learn how to listen. Yes. You have to learn what people want. And if you're astute enough, you'll find out that they are loud with what they want. Yeah. Yeah. You've talked a lot.

I was watching our last conversation a couple of years ago when you had your children's book out. It's about a mother supporting a daughter and supporting her dreams because that was the experience you had. Yeah. How thrilling has this ride you've been on then for your mother? Oh, she's very happy. Yeah? She's very, very happy. She can't wait.

She asked immediately, when are we, when is the premiere? When can I come? When can I come with you? what should I wear? I need to get my outfit together. So she's very, very pleased for her birthday. Her birthday is also in January, like mine. And she's got material for everyone and that we're going to make clothes out.

And it just so happens that she managed to pick pink and green materials to wear, which is amazing. So sweet. Didn't tell me that she was. And then when she said, come and pick which material one? She had two choices, pink or green. And I was like, I love you. Oh, that's amazing. And she's so, like, she didn't, it's like, didn't say, I had pink and green.

She just said, these are the two choices. Oh, my gosh. It's a very, very subtle with it. Yeah. So I think she's getting a quiet thrill from all of it, you know. How fun to be able to share it with the person who really got you here, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, are you sick at all of the color green?

No. Green happens to be my favorite color. So when it happened, I was like, oh, this is just an excuse for me to keep buying more green. And I do love it because it comes to so many different shade, so I'll never be bored of it, I don't think. Yeah. The nails are spectacular. Thank you very much.

Now, but also in the movie. Yes. They're fantastic. Yes. So the reason for the nails in the movie is because it comes from the law of ours. I went back and did some research over the aesthetic of the Wicked Witch. And what I saw with Margaret Hamilton is that she actually had nails. I thought, well, I want to incorporate this.

And because it's something that I know very well and I was already doing, I wanted to find a way to marry the two together. So how do we make it as part of Alpha's DNA? How do we make it a part of her aesthetic anyway, something that comes just naturally to her? Another thing that makes her a little bit different to everybody else. And John went with me on it. And we found the right shade of green for her nails at the beginning,

and that becomes a progressive thing also that grows. Right. Okay. I think it's time, Cynthia, for you to see. It's so insane. How cool is that? It's really cool. That's awesome. Why? It's happening.

It's real. It's so crazy. What do you think when you see that? It's just a huge, huge moment. You've earned it. Thank you. You've burned it. There's another one here as well, where we get both of you.

It's so insane. I love that we get to be here together like that. That's just like... Really cool. It's someone who's not seen the Broadway show or seen it on the West End. It must be a little bit surreal to have it be you on the billboard and not someone else. Yeah, like walking through here, seeing all of these billboards and movies, everyone else up there and having been on Broadway myself, like you just don't.

I don't know. You just don't know it can ever meet. And then it is. Yeah. I think what else we're learning here is Universal has a nice marketing budget. Yes, they do. Like goodness. We like that. We like that. There you are. Yes, I do. You're going to be sick of yourself by the time this is over. Wild. So crazy.

Yeah, they were saying even the pre-sale for it is like on levels of the biggest movies to see. You know? It's like... Yeah. And I don't know that... I mean, I think they expected it to do, like, well. But I don't know if they expect you that. I think that, like, that even surprised.

Yeah. Just how, like the frenzy. Yes. You know? Yeah. So, it's so cool that people are excited, you know? And it's cool that it, having seen it now, it delivers. It's not just hype of, oh, I like that brand.

It's like, wow. Yeah. Like I said there, it's going to be an entire gender. generation that this is wicked to them. Yes, yes. Right? That is the thing that I think is something to like, grab my head around. You're Elphaba. That's it. There are people who haven't seen this. Right.

And there are people who are waiting to see this. Yes. Well, thank you for this. This was special. We're so excited for you and going to support it every step of the way. Thank you so much. Yes. You deserve it. I like seeing super talented people get what they deserve. Thank you.

And that's you. Thank you very much. My big thanks again to Cynthia for a great. conversation. My thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of my conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sitdown podcast.