Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Willem Dafoe

Episode Date: December 17, 2023

On this week's episode, Willie sits down with Willem Dafoe. They discuss his latest film, "Poor Things" - the stunning, fantastical film that has Hollywood talking - and a long career that ranges from "Platoon" to "Spider-Man". Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. I am very excited for you to pull up a chair this week for my conversation with the great Willem Defoe. When I say his name, an image pops into your face of a man, of an actor, of a movie you love. He's been in more than 140 of them. He's been nominated for four Academy Awards. And the range is from things like Platoon, which made him famous around the the world.

1986 film by Oliver Stone for which DeFoe was nominated for an Oscar, but also Green Goblin, where in the Spider-Man movie, he played the villain, joining the Marvel Universe and becoming internationally famous. Movies like Finding Nemo, his voice is in that. And then the guy can do it all. He's been in seven movies that will appear this year alone. The guy is incredibly prolific, and what you get from sitting and talking with him is that he just loves the job and loves the work.

His latest movie is getting tons of talk, tons of critical acclaim, award season nominations. It is called Poor Things. It is directed by a man named Jorgos Lentamos, who did the favorite and other films that just look and feel so different and so distinctive. Emma Stone stars in this one, along with Willem Defoe. I'm not even going to try to explain the premise to you. You just have to let him explain it, see if you can picture it, and frankly, just go see. to understand it. It is a fantastical world created by this director, inhabited by Emma Stone, Willem Defoe, Mark Ruffalo, an incredible cast as well. So I'll set the scene for a little bit.

Willem and I got together at a restaurant in New York's Soho neighborhood called Raouls. It's been there forever. It is an institution down there. And when Willam moved from Appleton, Wisconsin to New York City in 1976 to start his career as an actor, he founded a theater troop and used to hang out. It was divey down there, as so much of New York City was in the 70s and 80s. Now Soho is beautiful, and has boutiques and all the kinds of things that you've probably seen if you go on vacation, but it was rough down there. And we went to one of his old haunts, Raoul's, a great restaurant, still has the cool vibe from the 70s and 80s. And it was just fun to be down there back with him as he reminisced a little bit. So with all that said, sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation

with Willem Defoe on the Sunday Sit Down Pound. Welcome. Willam, it's so nice to see you. Nice to see you. Thank you for doing this. Sure, sure. We should give a little context about where we are in Raoul's, the famous Soho restaurant. Yeah, it was one of the first restaurants. Significant to you because of the time you spent here. Yeah, yeah, I lived down in Soho for many years. First one, I came to the city, I lived in the East Village for a while, but then not only did I live in Soho, but right across from where I lived, was the theater that I worked at for 27 years. So for many years, I was a Soho guy, and This was one of the first restaurants in a day where there were no grocery stores,

there were no restaurants, there were certainly no clothing stores. It was an area of, you know, failing sweatshops and funk, you know, it was people homesteading, people, you know, doing work in lofts, you know, renovating lofts. The most happening place was a place called ZELF, where, you could. rent sanders for the wood floors. Oh, is that right? Do your own home renovations. Yeah, yeah.

And it still feels, I imagine, pretty similar to what it was, right? It's exactly the same. And I came back recently with an old friend, and they were so sweet, and they were very welcoming, and they treated me as if I was just there yesterday, which was pretty, which is quite a trick. I was just telling you, they still have the spiral staircase behind you going up to the bathroom with a pay phone at the top of the steps, which I loved. And a lot happened up there. happened up there in the day. It does. I won't press you on that. No, no. I didn't say I was involved.

We'll come back to those years in a bit, but I do want to start with poor things, which is just an extraordinary film. I just finished watching it. I was telling you an hour ago, so I'm just sort of reorganizing your face as we sit here. Forgive me. Someone asked me as I was finished watching it said, what is it about? What is it? And it's a hard thing to explain, is it not? It is because for me, when you watch it, many things come up. I mean, it's very resonant. But basically, it's about a woman's journey.

She's a woman. I don't know what spoilers are, you know. But she's a woman that's died and been reanimated. But when she died, she had a baby inside her. And my character, who is a scientist, sees this as a great upert. to do what to him is the natural thing. Put the baby's brain in this woman's body and reanimate her. So you have a woman, you have a person that's in a woman's body,

but has the brain of a baby, learns like a baby, learns fast, and isn't socially conditioned. And at first, she's kind of coistered, but when you realize that she feels a niche and has to go out and see the world, And I'm kind of a broadly a parental figure to her, and I hold on to her for a little while, but then I let her go. And a lot of the movie is her adventure going out into the world. I think you described it very well without giving way too much. I try.

It's not so easy, but that is essentially what it is. And your character, Dr. Godwin Baxter, has been through some things himself. Again, don't want to reveal too much, but much of it is evident right away. Right. It's a complex relationship. One of the beautiful things is the relationship between the creator and this woman. It's not just paternal. It's more than that.

And the arc of their characters is very interesting to me. And you, as a true Willem had to go and learn under a mortician for a bit? Well, no, that's part of your process. No, it was fun. And we do some operating and some cutting. I do some teaching in it. in the movie, it's minimal, and we're using period instruments. So it's nice to practice, so on the day you're proficient and confident.

But it goes beyond that. It just gives you an experience that you can apply to your pretending and kind of gives you a foothold into the character. But this was all stuff that I sort of knew, because I grew up around labs and doctors' offices and all that, because I come from a medical family. Your father, a doctor, your mother, a nurse, right? I used to go on rounds with him, and I used to hang out in the clinic,

and I was a janitor in the clinic. Wow. And the physical transformation you undergo, again, I don't want to say why, but you're disfigured in some way. We could even say why. Should we? Should we just do it? I think we can.

His father was also a scientist, a doctor, and he used his son as a guinea pig. And so he's a character when you see him. He's literally scarred and boy is he scarred because there's many things. He's kind of alienated from society because he's quite funky looking so he doesn't really go out. He really has, he's decided to turn his pain into something positive and really devoted himself to science. And there's holes in that and you see how he severance and negotiates that. But I think it's interesting.

It's always interesting when someone has the whatever it takes to turn their pain rather than complain about it and sit in it to turn it into something else. And there's also parallel with the Bella character because he gives her a chance. He gives himself hope and her hope at the same time. The physical transformation is extraordinary. Do I have it right that you had to go four hours every day? Yeah. To get that face on it.

And then two hours at the end of the day to get it off. So building in six extra hours to your day. Yeah, yeah. But you're certainly ready when everybody shows up sleepy to start work because you've been there for four hours. And it's really true. Of course, it's not pleasant. But you sit there and it is in good preparation

because you see yourself go away and you see something else emerge and emerge. And that certainly helps you to pretend. It helps you, you know, when you look different, when you feel differently, when you see something different than normal reflected back to you, it creates a shift and makes it much easier to inhabit something that is not you. I've read so many interviews and listed so many interviews with you where you talk about... Poor baby.

Research, research, where you describe your process as an actor, which is you don't show up with your own ideas typically, rather you're there to serve what the director has envisioned. Is that fair to say? That's pretty fair. I mean, that's pretty broad. I mean, there are colors and degrees to that, but yes, yes. Because I'm not so there to interpret. I'm there to as an extension. I like it when I attach myself to a director and he or she sees something and then I've got to embody it. And if that sounds boring or sounds slavish, it's really not. Because when you take away, you know, it's like you serve something. And when you're imagining something

or you're trying to become something that someone else sees, you have an adventure. You get a different view. If you're serving your agenda, often you're going to what you already know. And it's not as fulfilling, I don't think. It completes itself too easily. And it becomes just a show

and becomes an interpretation rather than surprising yourself and learning something. It's, I mean, as I say, every project's different. Sometimes you approach it differently. But the sweet spot for me is when you're an extension of a director

and you become a fabric, you know, of the work. You become a thread in that thing that they're making. And the reason I raised that is because what a vision you stepped into. Your goes here. Well, that's it. You know, he's a great director, and I love his work. Emma and Yorgos, Emma was attached in very early stage.

Yorgos invited her into the project very early. They called me, and I knew I wanted to do it because I liked so much the work of both of them. But when I get to the set, it's so complete. It has so many details. It really tells you what to do. You enter it, and it doesn't remind you of anything, so you don't rely on kind of familiar responses to things. You really put in a place of curiosity

because it's so strange and so specific, and you have to go towards something. And I always like that best to go towards something that you don't quite know what it is, and your expression isn't something you already know. it's a chronicle of your having adventure, having that shift, realizing something that you couldn't see before, because I think that's the pleasure of making anything. That's so well said. How could you possibly walk into a familiar place when this is so fantastical and surreal?

No one's ever seen anything like it. That set must have just been something to see. I used to just hang. I mean, we're kind of bragging here, but, you know, you, You're on the set. You have plenty of downtime. You've been on film sets. You know, sometimes it's very slow.

I like to hang out on the set anyway to see what's going on and to watch the other people, and it's a special environment. So I'd like to be there. But this set, I would wonder. I would wonder. I would go to a bookcase. I'd pull out a book.

I'd open it, and there were character-specific, you know, period, surgical, you know, drawings in there. And I'd read them, you know. So that helps you further along the way. It's not necessary, but it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. There's many things. The world is there.

When the world is there, I think that's the best thing a director can do. People have a lot of fantasies about they come by and, oh, think of your mother, and we want to, I want you to cry here. It's never like that. Directors don't do that, at least in my experience. It's much more you help them make the world. and understand the world and melt into the world and then inhabit that world. And that's the fun. That's the pleasure.

And as a viewer, too, just to be taken into that world is so spectacular. The idea is, you know, you have an experience that, I don't know whether this is true, but it's an idea. You have an experience that transparent enough that people can be there with you. So you are like, you know, you represent. and people are with you. And if you do it in an honest and true way, I think that's another reason about that. Going towards something is so important.

Because if you have it in mind to show something or interpret something, it becomes dead. It becomes just one point of view. But if you're going towards something, you know, you're negotiating. And if the audience is open-hearted and awake, you know, and they're really paying attention, they'll do that with you.

They may even get ahead. you well that's as we're chatting before we started that's what i said to you i guess the first 10 or 15 minutes you're sort of as a viewer orienting yourself what am i watching right now because it's a very um it's very strange world and it's the setup it's the setup but the setup is really essential because the setup earns her the right to be who she is because she's she's both an innocent and but she's also ends up being the wise wisest person because she knows nothing about conformity. She knows nothing about social convention.

She doesn't even have an attitude in rejecting it somewhat. As her kind of creator, as her father, I've taught her things. But she's also been cloistered. So when she goes out in the world, she sees things very directly. She takes nothing as a given, and she's questioning, and she speaks of her experience. So that's the exhilaration of watching her. And it's a woman finding her path, and it's tinged with also her sexuality and her becoming, becoming her own person without, you know, the dictates of society, you know, telling her who to be.

She's quite free. And once you realize what the game is, once you've been set up and it clicks, you know, and then you're along for the ride. And by the way, it's very funny, you should say. She's hilarious. For me, it's funny because we recognize ourselves. You know, it's like one thing, she has this man that takes her off,

beautifully pretty by Mark Ruffalo, and they have this huge globe-trotting, sexual adventure and all that, and she wears them out. That's pretty funny in itself. And then on top of that, are these spoilers? I guess they are. Go for it.

Okay. She wears them out, but also when their relationship which he's a Don Giovanni, you know, he's telling her he's going to show her the delights of the commissueira, that kind of thing. He gets worn out, and he also sort of falls in love with her, and his first response is to hold her down. Right. And that ruins any attraction or any energy that was there.

So you see those things, you know that impulse, and it's done in such a colorful, playful way that, I don't know, it's a fun movie, and it also presents you with a lot of food for thought. The euphemism, Furious Jumping, is something I learned. This movie that I will carry with me forever. Yeah, well, everybody, yeah. Now, that's a spoiler you'll have to figure out. It's one of those things that you cannot forget, yeah. Can you talk more about Emma Stone's performance?

She's fantastic. She's remarkable and what it was like to be across from her. And, you know, I'm starting to do press, so it's getting a little boring to talk about how brilliant she is. But it's true, it's true, it's true. And now she's, it's a beautiful role and she's ready for it. And she's just really fun to work with. I really enjoyed working with her. You know, she was, she calibrates this development of this character

because she starts out basically, you know, in movement and in the way she speaks, like a child. And then in the process of the film, she becomes a woman. To calibrate that, particularly when you, not always shooting in sequence is very tricky. Right, especially in this film. Yeah, she's very skilled, she's open-hearted, she's fun. She's the kind of person I love to work with,

and she's got very close shorthand and a kind of intimate understanding between her and Yorgos. She worked with him on The Favorite before. Right. And she's worked with him on other things like short films since then. I think at least two. And we worked together again on another movie. And that's a very different movie, but that was pure pleasure too.

So I guess that answers the question what the experience was like for you. You signed up for another one. Oh, absolutely, and I'll do it again. Yeah, I would like nothing more than to be part of his company, you know, his company of actors. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Willem Defoe right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with Willem Defoe. You've worked with so many direct, incredible directors and all very specific in their taste and their vision for a film.

Do you lead with that as an actor? In other words, when someone comes to you, you say, I trust your ghost. Whatever it is, it sounds like an adventure I want to be a part of. Yeah, I do. Because, you know, a huge part of, if you want to perform, you don't really know this, but so much is submission. and submission to something. And that doesn't mean you're passive at all, but it means you find out what we're trying to do

and you become it, which means you go away from yourself. You don't assert yourself. That doesn't mean what you're doing isn't personal. That doesn't mean it's not connected to you. That doesn't mean that's not who you are because I believe, you know, we're all capable of any kind of behavior.

and all characters exist inside of you, the existence side of me. I'd even go crazy. We're all brothers and sisters, okay? Yes, amen. Yeah, so to work with the director, it's nice to trust them. And also, if you give yourself to something,

you want to know it's worth it. And you can't always, films are so collaborative that sometimes they don't work out great, you know, for whatever reason. or they don't get, you know, seen properly or whatever happens. But if you know why you did it and you approached it with a kind of, for lack of better word, I'll say honesty, but that's not really the right word,

then you can live with it, you know, and live to fight another day. So, director is very important. And also working with directors multiple times has another dimension, too, because you enter this body of work and you become like a character in their body of work. And I think that's pleasurable. It's pleasurable to me, you know, when you see someone like, you know,

who, Cassavetti's Fassbinder, you know, that used a lot of the same people. It's fun to see them go from movie to movie to movie and be different or not be different or be used iconographically. to use yourself as a thing almost, you know, as an animal, you know, in the landscape. This is beautiful. Well, as you have with Wes Anderson, just this year with Asteroid City, going back 20 years or so, I guess.

Yeah, yeah. You know, that wasn't a very substantial role, but I love Wes and he's fun to work with. Do you, this film is getting incredible praise, critical praise. Yeah. Winning all the festivals, people talking about Oscars. Do you listen to that? Is that interesting to you? I love your honesty.

Hey, what else do I got? That's all I got. Yeah, I do. I do. Also, you know, colors, promotion, and I like promoting movies. Maybe I'm deluded, but, you know, you try to articulate what you do, and if you get some kind of clarity, sometimes that can push you further down the line. And then it's just nice to do, you do this private thing, you know,

And then to see how it connects with the world, you know, and bring it to the world as best as you can. It's fun. I like it. I guess that's the social part of me, you know. And also that's the part that, yeah, it's enjoyable. So I listen to this stuff and you cross your fingers and, you know, you want the movie to get well. You want people to enjoy it. And, you know, with Oscar buzz and all that, that's part of it.

That's part of it. It's not so bad to hear your name in the buzz, is it? No, no. And in the past, when I've been nominated, particularly it's been, this isn't so much the case for this, but in the past, they've always been small movies. And it's really helped to get them seen more. Right.

You know, that's part of the game. You know, if you do something and if you like it, the next work is to get it out there. And here we are spreading the word. Here we are. That's the idea. No, I can just see you. Just came for lunch?

So I want to go back briefly to the beginning. We were joking about Appleton, Wisconsin. Yes. But I can't joke about Appleton, Wisconsin. Because every time I do, I get nasty, nasty press. I shout at in the local press that gave me a hard time. You love your hometown. Be clear.

I grew up there. It's my hometown. And I said we're joking only because my wife traveled there for business a lot. And we were laughing that she was in and out of the air. airport there. But you were the seventh of eight kids, so I guess it's no secret why you begin performing. You got it. Is it the old cliche? Well, I think where you are in the family is very significant, you know, in the numbers. And eight, eight is quite a big group. And also my parents worked together. So they, they were very present to us, but they weren't really present. So

we ran the place, and I was like raised by my older sisters. So you find, you find, you find, You've got to find your place, you know, in order to survive in that tribe. And I think when I started out, my thing was I was the prankster. I was the Joker. You wouldn't know it now by the movies. I do that, I guess. But that's where you start, you know. And it starts out as a thing just for pleasure and to amuse people and keep, you know,

keep them enough amused that your brothers don't beat you up and, you know, this kind of thing. So it's a strategy. And then it becomes a social thing. And then after it becomes a social thing, you start to see the deeper value of it. And then you become serious about it. And then you try to be an artist. So at what point do you find a stage then, Willem? Go from, I'm a prankster around the house.

I perform a little bit to, oh, there's an outlet for all of this, somewhere I could actually perform. You know, I guess practically speaking, you grow up in Appleton, Wisconsin. And it's changed a lot. But when I grew up, there weren't a lot of people I knew that were in the movies or, like, I didn't know anybody. So it was a strange thing. And I even remember my parents, you know, they were like, what are you going to do? And I said, I want to go to university for a little while to study this acting stuff. And they were like, fine, do that.

But when you're serious, come to us and we'll help you out, you know. And I never really decided because it was on-the-job training. And also, I started in a theater that was not a place. There was no career there. Right. You know, you were there for the moment. You were young kids in the city hanging out with people that attracted you

and you were hearing new things, new ideologies, politically and ways of living that were different than my middle class Midwestern up there. And that was fun, but I didn't think there was a career in this. But then after a while, I got seen at the theater

and people asked me to do movies. I continue to do theater. And then after a while, you look at yourself and it sounds coy, but it's really true. I say, well, I guess I'm an actor. They keep calling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what gave you the guts?

Willem to leave Wisconsin and to come to the New York City you just described a little while ago. That was Mecca, and it wasn't just the theater. It was, the music scene was happening. That was the beginning of this explosion of like punk and new wave stuff a little later. Dance, I've always loved that. Dance was exploding. Visual art a little later, maybe. It was Mecca. It was Mecca. It was there. the place to go. And also, I think there's a tradition, at least there was in my family, even though they were kind of working class people that, you know, pulled themselves up by the bootstraps. The thing is, when you're ready, you leave, you leave. Once you're ready,

you get kicked out of the mess because it stunts you if you, you know, live with your family. I don't think that's necessarily true. And you particularly see in Italy, where people live with their parents for some time for a long time until they make a family or they, it's very different. But culturally, you say, where did you take the courage? It was expected of me. And I saw all my brothers. Like, for example, nobody lives in Appleton, Wisconsin, of my family anymore.

They all, phew. They went in a million directions. And that's no slur on Appleton, Wisconsin. And I guess I'm just saying that it's part of our, you know, to find your way, to find your way. That's sure it's good. I'm not sure it's bad, but that was it. Well, you did find your way. You started the theater group down here, right?

Yeah. In the mid-late 70s, I guess that was. A scrappy group putting on performances. I love that you describe yourself as a downtown actor. You weren't going to be at a kickline uptown. I wanted to be, but it didn't quite happen. And that's not, you know, when I came to the city, I really intended to be like a commercial theater actor.

I wasn't really trained, but I had performed some. And, but when I got down here, I just found myself attracted to downtown, you know, to law of performances. I guess, you know, I was toying with this other world, this other world that was made of artists, and there was a lot going on. And just socially, that's what.

was attractive to me. And that's what fed me. I felt like that was the adventure. And then you start reading about artists and you start reading about, I don't know, it was you're a kid and you're a dreamer. And the dreamer didn't, wasn't

about, although we did end up on Broadway. You know, it wasn't about the classic, you know, do a play in a barn and then have success. Right.

It was about hanging out and making stuff and then having the world accept you. And they didn't right away. It was a long time that, you know, I remember reviews in the New York Times, you know, like I'd say, hey, what's detritus? You know, I had not much of an education. I had a lot of catching up to do. But then what happened is we toured a lot internationally. and got a reputation. And then those same writers would see us in Paris at beautiful venues

or Berlin or London. And they think, something's going on here. And then when we come home, they were like, hey, this is great. Right, right, right. They love you in Amsterdam and Paris. Right. So they started to fall in love with you after the fact a little bit. Stick around for more of my conversation with Willem Defoe right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Willem Defoe. So what was the leap then, Willem, from those kind of shows, which did you say were relatively small and they were loft shows, to Hollywood calling you?

It's a bumpy road. It wasn't one phone call? A little bit. I mean, it's start. You know, when people say, well, that's the most important thing. It's like the first, you know, where you stub your toe. I was doing this, I worked with the Worcester Group for 27 years, and probably after about,

three or four years, four or five years, I don't know. I did a couple of things, but principally, Catherine Bigelow and a co-director, Montemontie Montgomery, saw me at the theater and asked me to make this little movie called The Loveless. And that was Catherine Bigelow's first feature. And it had trouble getting a good release, but it played festivals, and a manager saw it. and looked me up in the phone book because I was in the phone book, naturally, and said,

do you like doing movies? Do you want to do this some more? And I said, yeah, yeah. So then I started actively looking for stuff, you know, getting an agent and going to auditions. But I was lucky because I found work fairly quickly. And I kept on working at the theater. So as long as I was there, I could only work so much, you know? Right. Right. And, you know, right. And you were not totally run off from Hollywood by your first experience on Heaven's Gate. Thank goodness. As one might have been. I came home with my tail between my legs, but, you know, what doesn't kill you makes you strong.

It was humiliating, but it wasn't really humiliating because it was a little bit of a mistake. Obviously, what you're referring to is being fired from Heaven's Gate, which was really my first studio movie. But I was a glorified extra. And of course, if you wanted to be nasty, I could say I had the last laugh because I don't like to say that because I'd like the movie. And I think Michael Chimino was very talented. It's just there was excess. And then once there was excess, he started to get squeezed and he started to get nervous. And that was really the product of what had me fired because we were in.

a lighting setup and someone told me a joke very instantly we were like eight hours standing you know you had to raise your hand to go to the toilet you know it was that kind of thing it was took some so you're there and people to kill time this woman told me a dirty joke and I laughed and his back was to me and he heard me and he turned around and he was so paranoid and stressed by that point he said will him step up and that was it and I said what happened they said nothing your parts finished. And it's like, yeah, but what happened? Nothing. You're going home. So then I got home and I came home and everybody was like, great. They were happy to have me home. It was a great career. Yeah. But here we are now. Yeah. And I thought, okay, well, these things happen. Now I'm being

pointed in the right direction. Well, you recovered very nicely, I have to say. And Platoon, I think, was the first time a wider audience was probably introduced to you. You were nominated for an Academy Award. And I think the general public there said, who's that guy? He's very good. That happens when, you know, that movie was a small movie. People forget that. A tiny little movie that took a long time to get made. And the nice thing was, it was popular movie, and it also was a critical success, and played very well internationally for the most part. So that was a big step up. People saw things like Streets of Fire and to Live and Die in L.A., but it wasn't, it wasn't, doesn't do the same thing. And then, of course, being nominated people are always like,

who is this kid, you know? So that helps. Did you feel your life change after that film was so popular after you were nominated for an Academy Award? A guy who enjoyed just being sort of in this small community of actors in New York? It's gradual, you know? And you got to remember, like years ago, a movie would come out and remember it would stay in theaters for a long time. Right. And if it was successful, you'd feel a blip in your celebrity, you know. But as soon as it would go away, it lasts very long, because that's even

before, I mean, I don't want to sound like Old Man Mountain, but that's even before DVDs, you know? Right. And then DVDs came, and then the life of a movie got extended, and then DVDs, not DVDs, first VHs, and then DVDs, and now, you know,

you do a movie, and it may be hard to find, but it's around forever. Yes. So, and also, there's an accumulation. you know right um well within a couple of years you're playing jesus christ for example you build and build but but did it change like excuse me like that no no um it's it's a gradual thing and also i'm still working at the theater so that's my that's my that's my day to day that's my you know i'm cleaning toilets i'm uh you know we're playing to small houses um you know we're it's a

It's a self-run thing. That's my reality. And I've got this other thing that people sometimes lean on, but not usually. Even when we're touring, you know, it changed with time. But when we're touring, I was with this theater company. That's who I was. It feels like you still may even are the perfect amount of famous, if that makes any sense, which is that everyone knows you, but you can live your life a little bit, right?

That feels like a good place to be. Listen, people are nice to me. I can't kick about it. And, you know, the perks of a celebrity generally are positive for me. You know, because it's real simple. If someone isn't into you, they don't bother you. If someone's into you, you know, it gives you energy. And sometimes I am touched when someone's sincerely, you know, like you have it too.

I'm sure people appreciate what you do and they tell you, you can't help it. It gives you energy. It gives you. lets you go on. You don't mark it, but you feel useful. And I think that's very important motivating. You don't do it for that. But when people appreciate

and you feel like it's honest, it helps you. Now, with all that said, when you did Spider-Man and you became the Green Goblin, I imagine that big change. That's something else. That's something else. Now you're in the Marvel universe. That's, you know, a movie like that is so widely,

saying that, you know, you can be in Timbuktu and people will recognize you. And I've learned I have a distinctive face, something that I didn't know. It's true. I can confirm. And I always remember I was on the subway years ago when New York was still pretty rough and I was taking my kid by subway to, from downtown to the Bronx Zoo. And some guys got on the train. Can you, can you swear on this program. Okay. Some guys got on the train, and they're sitting there, and they're looking at me, and they're looking kind of, you know, rough.

And I think, oh, God, even with my son here, these guys are going to, you know, they rolled me for money or something. Something bad is going to happen, because they were looking kind of mean, and then they were looking at each other. And then I heard one say, yeah, God be him. Nobody looks like that motherfucker. That's when I knew. I don't know what that was worth telling.

I think that's a compliment? I don't know. A distinctive face. I don't know. I'm not ashamed because I'm telling the story. And the voice, too. When you hear the voice, you know it's you as well. You have the combination of the two, I think.

Yes. I think you've done, maybe you'll correct me, between 140 and 150 films. Or you've appeared in one form or another. Yes. In that neighborhood. Yep. You've done six or seven just in the last year or so.

Yeah, sounds crazy. It strikes me. That's like you. Well, yeah, I do volume sales. Quality, I don't know. But it strikes me that you love what you do, that you love to work. And when these opportunities come, you jump into them. I do.

I mean, what a beautiful thing it is to love what you do. And I think, you know, you see it in people, whether it's a cook or a guy that has a flower shop or a woman that, you know, I don't know, it makes a huge difference. And yeah, I like it. So it's a good life. We're all better for it. We're glad you work as much as you do. No, I can't help it. It's adventure.

It broadens your view of things. It always challenges you in a safe way, you know. No, I feel fortunate. But anyone's fortunate to find what they really love to do. And when people sometimes, you know, when I'm, I don't do it much, but when I'm teaching or something like that, you know, they say, give advice. I say, I have no advice. But the one thing, just, you know, make sure you do what you love and don't wait. That's all I say.

That's perfect advice. Last thing before I let you go. Beetlejuice, too. Yeah. Very exciting. Yeah. Yes. Tim Burton, you know, when you think about the movie he's made, he's made a whole genre.

Yes. And he was fun to work with, and it was special because beer juice, I remember. And I think I did a bad thing by speaking about it because I think he likes to, you know, wait until it's released. And I keep on meaning, this is, maybe he's watching. I apologized him. I spilled the beans. But it, I can't wait to see it. It was really fun to work on.

Yeah, and he's great fun and has a very particular vision and isn't precious, you know. He's on top of it and he's full of life and incredible energy. He works with incredible energy. And then to have all those people return was great. Well, we can't wait to see it. I'm noticing, too, all these great directors with very specific visions and styles. They like working with you, too. It's not just from your side of it.

There's a reason for that. We try not to get fired. That's always the goal. Willem, thank you so much. What a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks. My big thanks again to Willem for a great conversation. You can check out poor things in select theaters now.

And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear my conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sitdown podcast. Thank you.