Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Willie Nelson

Episode Date: February 21, 2021

Willie Nelson is an American icon and music legend, winning 10 Grammy Awards over the course of his eight decades in the industry. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist gets together with the country singer to talk about 80 years of music, including his latest album “That’s Life,” a tribute to his friend Frank Sinatra.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. I am always excited about these conversations. I mean it sincerely. I mean it genuinely when I say it. The fact that I get a chance to spend as much time as I do with people who I admire, people am I curious about, people I'm interested in is a privilege and it does excite me. But some days, you're a little more excited than others. And today is one of those because my guest is an American icon who goes by the name of Willie Nelson, the great Willie Nelson, the icon Willie Nelson. This is my first ever, I believe, Willie on Willie interview. I've never interviewed Willie Mays. Boy, I'd love to do that too. And this is my first conversation with Willie Nelson. So we had some fun. He is at home outside Austin, Texas, just to paint you a picture. He is over Zoom. His wife, Annie, of 30 years. They'll celebrate their 30th anniversary later this year. It was just the two of them. I don't. love telling these behind-the-scenes stories because a lot of times you'll get a team, a technical team, a creative director setting up shots. No, this was like talking to relatives. This was like

talking to parents. They flip open the laptop. There's Willie Nelson sitting there waving to you saying hi. And then Annie is setting up the shots. She's trying to get the angle right, get us connected on Zoom. It was just awesome. The two of them getting us ready to have a conversation about Willie's new album called That's Life, which is a cover of Frank Sinatra songs. He loves Frank Sinatra. I didn't know that. It's one of his favorite artists of all time. He loves the way he sings, loves the way he phrased a song,

eventually became buddies with him and did shows with him and got to know him really well. But he was one of his heroes growing up as a singer and modeled himself in a lot of ways after Sinatra. So this actually is his second album of compilations of Sinatra songs. The previous one won him a Grammy. So we talk about that. We talk about his career. Willie is going to be 88 years old in April. God bless him. So we were so grateful that he would sit down, take the time, talk through a little bit of his life and career. And again, a big shout out to his wife, Annie, for helping make this possible. So I will shut up now. You want to hear from the real Willie, the great Willie Nelson right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Hey, Willie, it's good to see you. Thank you. It's good to be seeing. I've been waiting a long time to say,

hello Willie. I don't think I've ever interviewed another Willie, let alone the Willie, Willie Nelson. So it's a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. So I'm curious what you've been up to. I want to talk about That's Life, the new album. But this long year, I mean, you've been busy. I mean, a couple of albums, you've had a book out, your sister Bobby, you've been doing these virtual shows.

You have kept very busy, not out on the road like you like to be, but it seems like every day is filled with something. Yeah, fortunately, we found something to do. It's a big drag not to be able to tour, but we're lucky enough to have a studio very close and musicians around, so my little sister Bob is here. So we just finished a gospel album,

just finished it up this week, matter of fact. Wow. So you've just taken the time to sit and write songs, like you would. I mean, you typically out on the road, right? You're busy doing your shows, but you just had time to sit and write, haven't you? I have written a few songs, yeah. Whether they're any good or not, I don't know. So another important development, Willie, is that you got the vaccine, which I think we need to protect our precious national treasures like yourself. So that's good news. How do you feel?

I feel great. We're going in for our second shot in a couple of days. so I feel fine. Good, good. I mean, you mentioned missing the road. You've spent your life out there, obviously, on a tour bus. What has it been like for you just to kind of sit still for a minute and not be out in front of those crowds? Well, you know, there's a plus and minus. I'm very fortunate.

I'm here on our place here in Austin. we have a nice little ranch here with some horses that I love. So we've got some chickens now and hogs. So I'm just kind of having fun hanging out, but trying to make the best of it, really, because hopefully we can get back out there pretty soon. So you're a gentleman farmer, in other words. You're taking up the...

So let's talk about... that album, that's life. I didn't fully appreciate what a big fan of Frank Sinatra, you were and always have been since you were a young man. What was it about Frank when you were young that so caught your ear down in Texas? Well, his choice of songs, first of all, he could pick up, you know. I don't know if he was a writer or not, but I know he could really go into a session, and I knew he'd have 10 good songs. And he never let me down, you know, practically everything that he's recorded, I've loved it. So naturally, I'm a huge Sinatra fan. And you talk a lot about Willie his phrasing. And I think people who aren't in your line of work don't fully understand quite what that means.

What does it mean to have great phrasing the way Frank did? Well, that was another thing that I liked about Frank. What's his phrasing? He never did. He never did the same song twice the same way. He did it the way he felt it, and each way he felt it a little bit different than he did the time before. But that's cool. I thought I loved you about it.

And that's unique, isn't it? I mean, most people want to stay on the beat, and he was ahead of it sometimes and behind it other times, and he didn't mind that. Yeah, I love that. I'd love to be able to play with the beat. And, you know, you screw up sometimes. beautifully, though, beautifully,

you're trying to cover it up. That's right, that's right. So what compelled you then to start covering some of his songs? You had an album out a couple of years ago that won you a Grammy, and now this is another effort covering some Frank's songs. What made you think, I love the guy so much, and I'm going to do one of his albums? Well, the first album that I did of Sinatra was because I love him so much,

and we had so much success with that one that I said, why not let's do another one because there's a hundred other great songs out there. Cottage for sale. Cottage for sale to me is one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard. Is there a challenge to reproducing songs

that people love so much? Do you ever wonder, boy, people love the way Frank did it. I'm not sure how they'll feel about the way I sing it. Well, you have to believe that your fans at least will like the way you're doing it. I don't think anybody expecting me to sound like Frank. And even though I was good, I don't have that good a voice. Well, it's beautiful. I was listening to it last night and this morning.

It's just a beautiful album. He'd be so proud of you. Do you, did you have much of a relationship with Frank? I know you looked up to him when you were young. Did you get to know him a little bit? Yeah, I did. We played some shows together. We played a show, I think, Vegas and Reno in different places.

And one of my greatest regrets, I was telling somebody a while ago, is that one night we played a show in Vegas, and he invited me by his place to hang out. And I couldn't. I had to get on the bus and go to L.A. And I always regretted that I didn't get to hang out with Frank. I mean, not many people would pass up the opportunity. hang with Sinatra in Vegas.

And it stays with you, doesn't it? We, he's got, he's such a unique character. Did you, once you got to know him, what was he like to be around? Well, he's a lot of fun. He was, you know, tell a few jokes and, uh, he was great, you know. You guys did, I was just telling you before we started, you did some, um, videos together for NASA, which I was watching her. earlier, and it's Frank in his tuxedo and you and your headband and your in your pigtails,

and it was just two guys who didn't look like they ought to be together, but it worked perfectly. You guys had some fun, didn't you? Yeah, that was, I remember doing that. I think Reagan was in that some way, too. I remember him being in there. Yeah, it was back in the 80s. I love doing Sinatra songs, and, you know, I probably won't, do another album, but I'm sure glad that I got to do too, you know. And Willie, how do you pick the songs that you'll put on an album? Because as you say, there are just so many to choose from with him. It wasn't hard at all. I just kind of, I said, yeah, I caught you for sale. Yeah, we'll do that one, we'll do this,

and we'll do that one. It was a no-brainer, really. Yeah, he's, he, um, in some ways, he is an icon in the way that you are an icon. Is that a, a strange thing for you to think about that there are young artists out there who want to grow up to be Willie Nelson or would love to someday play a bunch of your songs on an album? I need to talk to it. They need some advice. What does that term mean to you, legend? Willie Nelson, he's a legend.

What does that mean to you? I thought it's a legerard. I wasn't sure. with it. So I'm so big words always throw me. Yeah, legend, icon, all those things. I bet they do. I bet they do.

I'm just, I'm so interested that growing up in that little town in Texas and Abbott, Texas, about your musical taste that brought you to Frank Sinatra. What kind, I know you grew up singing in the church, and Amazing Grace was probably your first song. Who are your other influences at that young age, Willie? Well, Hank Williams, Bob Wills, Ted Dath and Floyd Tillman, just so many of the old, old time guys that I knew.

Leon Payne, a blind singer from Texas. He had a great song called I Love You Because. But I don't know. I just love all those old songs. And I never get tired of hearing them. I never get tired of singing them. Were there a lot of people listening to Sinatra in Abbott, Texas? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He was popular everywhere. Yeah, he was.

Everybody knew Frank. But I imagine you grew up, based on the names that you just listed, Willie, that you wanted to grow up to be a cowboy. You wanted to be a country singer. And Frank was something a little different. So how did you use his influences in your own career? Well, you know, I also like Gene Orchery and Roy Rogers and, you know, the Cowboys. And so I kind of mixed it all together.

I was glad that I got to know Sonatra and Gene Artery. That's a pretty cool life, if you can say that, both of them, huh? Do you remember, Willie, the first song you wrote back when you were, I guess, seven years old with your new guitar? Or do you remember playing in front of a crowd for the? the first time. I remember the first poem. I was about five years old, six years old. And they introduced me to do something. And my poem was, what are you looking at me for? I ain't got nothing to say. If you don't like the looks of me, look the other way. You're five years old with that attitude, Willie?

Yeah. And you never really changed. I had on a little white sailor suit with, you know, red trimmage. And I got nervous doing my poem. I started picking my nose. And so I started, my nose started bleeding all over my little sailor suit. Why are you looking at me for? That one will stay with you.

That moment will stay with you for a long time. So you come up playing that music. Willie, and then I guess around 1960, you decide it's time to go to Nashville. What was it like once you got to town there? To Nashville? Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, it's funny, Willie. I was looking at old pictures of you.

We think we know what Willie Nelson looks like. But when you first got there, you looked like you could have been into Beatles or something like that or the Beach Boys. Well, and I got into the hog business up there in Nashville, too, you know. I raised hogs for a long time. and wore my overalls a lot. I've got an album cover with me with overhauls. I'd wait about 180 pounds.

So it was healthy up there, Ridge Top, Tennessee. Yeah, yeah. And professionally, as you kind of tried to find your way, you weren't originally the outlaw country, as people have called you since then, were you? Not really. I really didn't I didn't consider myself being

because I liked all the country guys Ray Price and Roy Cuff and Hank Williams I loved all those guys but I left honestly I left Nashville and come down to Texas because this was where all my jobs were

you know the broken spoke and the different John T. Floors, all the clubs around Texas that I grew up playing, there wasn't many places to play in Nashville. So I was on the Grand Ole Opry, and in order to say you're a member of the Grand Ole Opry, you have to play it 26 weeks out of the year. So a lot of times I'd be down here in Austin or somewhere on Friday, night, and it would be hard for me to get back on Saturday night to do the Grand Ole Opry. So it's just a matter of long statistics that I just couldn't do it. I had to choose,

and I wasn't, I was making a little money down here in the clubs. So that brought me on down. I bet. I bet. You got to go where the, go where the money is. And when did you feel, Willie, like you sort of, you made it. It's a cliche that you'd broken through. that people were starting to listen to your music and maybe starting to buy your music and you weren't just playing small clubs in Texas? Honestly, the first time I thought I had made it, I had been picking cotton and bailing hay

and working in corn showers up there in Abbott and I had got a job playing guitar. I was 12 years old, and I got a job playing rhythm guitar in a bohemian poker band down in west, which was six miles south of Abbott at the SPJST hall down there. And I made $8. I said, what the hay, man?

I didn't make this much picking cotton all week. So I found me another way to go. So that was my first paying gig. And that was the moment you realized, oh, maybe I could make a living doing this? There you go. And here you are. still making a living doing it every day.

Did you, I wonder, Willie, if you, when you go out and play all these wonderful songs that you've written over the years, is there one that feels most special to you or more special than the others? Is there a song you go, wow, that's a damn good song I wrote? Well, I do a medley sometimes

of three songs that I wrote that are kind of my favorite. Funny how time slips away. crazy and nightlife. And I do those in a medley in my show. So those three songs have really been good for me. Yeah, I bet. Well, I'm glad you mentioned crazy

because I'm not sure everybody casual fan knows that you wrote crazy and that Patsy Klein obviously recorded it famously. But that is a Willie Nelson song. Did you write that for Patsy? Did you have her in mind when you wrote it? No. I had already had it written when I came to Nashville.

And I was hanging out in a place called Tootsie's Orchid Lounge. Do you ever hear of that place? I've been, yes. And I ran into a guy, his name was Charlie Dick, and he happened to be Patsy Kline's husband. And we were in Toot's and drinking a little beer, you know. I had brought a 45

up and put it on Tuss's jukebox of me singing crazy. And he heard it and he said, you got to do that for Patsy. And I said, well, it's already after midnight. He said, don't matter, come on. So we went over to Patsy's house that night

to his house and Patsy's. And I said, I ain't getting out. So he went in and Patsy come out and made me get out and go in. And I sang a song for as she recorded it that week. It was that quick. All-time jutebox favorite.

I think that's still true, Willie. I think it's the most played song in the history of the jukebox. Yeah. That's amazing. That's an amazing story. So was that the kind of song as you write them that you might want to keep for yourself

and not surrender because it's such a good song? No, I was writing for everybody. One of the first songs I wrote was Family Bible. I sold it for $50 and watched it go up to number one. Claude Gray recorded it. And I wanted to go to number one. I said, oh, God. Maybe you learned your lesson with that one then.

I did, I did. What do you make of Willie of the way music is sold and distributed today as we talk of the business side of it? You know, people just cutting singles, putting them up on iTunes. how has the business changed that way over the years? Say that again now. Just the way that music is sold and distributed these days where you pop it up on iTunes

and people sometimes don't even make a full album, they're just putting singles up and selling them. How do you feel about the way music is sold these days and how it's changed over the years? Well, I leave it up to anybody to sell them any way he can, I guess. But for me, I like the old common way of making an album or a CD and selling it or selling it that night on the show and try to make enough gas money to get to the next show. So that's the way we did it.

Yeah. And is your process the same? You're talking about writing all these songs during our year at home. Is the process basically the same as when you started back with crazy in songs like that where you just sit down with a guitar with trigger and a piece of paper and figure it out? I wrote one not too long ago that started out. I don't want to write another song, but I can't tell that to my mind. It just keeps throwing out words, and I have to try to make a rhyme. Oh, that is great.

You just wrote that one? Yeah. See, still got it. So does that just come to you? You just sit down there and spit it out? I wrote one called. live every day like it was your last, and one day you'll be right. See, there's the genius right there. There's the genius.

You also, Willie, I understand, have a book coming out called Willie Nelson's Letters to America. What did you want to sit down and write to America? Well, honestly, Turk Pitkin, the writer, the old friend of mine, is a great writer. And he's really writing the book, and I'm looking. at it and say that's good, you know. But we write together really well, and this is not the first book we've done. So I really like what he's doing on it.

And maybe I'm contributing something. I hope so. And what's the message of the book, Willie? If you're reading this book, you probably have run out of things to do. Is it of this moment, though? Is it born out of the sort of divisions we feel? I think it's almost down.

I think you can. Yeah, it's coming out of a couple months, I think. Yeah, it's not out of yet. But is it, are you speaking to sort of where the country is right now, Willie? Is that the idea behind it? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you've seen a couple of things in your life, Willie, born in the Depression and

come up through World War II and the Civil Rights Movement and Vietnam and everything you've seen. What do you think about where the country is right? now. Well, we have a lot of negatives going. You know, there's a lot of things that people are missing out on. You know, there's a great energy exchange whenever an artist comes to town and people come out and pay money to clap their hands and sing along with him. That's a very therapeutic thing to do. And to not be able to do that, you know, it's not healthy. And it's not healthy for the musician who can't go play. So this is a very trying time.

We'll get through it. It will pass. Maybe next fall things will get back more than normal. But in the meantime, we just got to tough it out. I noticed, Willie, that your buddy, Chris Christofferson announced he's retiring. Chicken. He's a chicken. No such announcement from you, then, I trust.

Well, I know. Not yet. No, not yet. So you'll be back. As soon as they say you can go, you'll be back on that tour bus back on the road. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I'll be looking for the next big town. Good, good. And speaking of Chris and Johnny and Whalen and your group in the highway men, how do you look back on that moment and that time? Because maybe on paper, those four didn't quite go together. But man, when you, when you sang, it was something special. How much fun was

that? That was fantastic. We went all over the world and we had our families with us. We had 278 pieces of luggage. Don't exactly travel light, do you? We had all our wives and kids and everybody and we went everywhere. And it was a lot of fun. A lot of fun. And you made some great music, too. I'm just curious, Willie, at this point in your career and your life, you are as prolific, it seems to me, as you've been. I'm looking at Willie's reserve over your shoulder, and you've got all these businesses and companies going,

and you're writing books and recording albums and testing yourself creatively with a Sinatra album and a gospel album. Where do you find the energy to be, you make us all tired, Willie? Well, I don't know. my wife Annie is pretty good at kicking me in the bud every now and then. She might be doing it right now. I can't see. Yeah, she is. How do you, how do you keep it all straight and how do you run it all so well? Well, I wasn't aware that it was that straight.

From the outside, it looks like it's going okay. Well, I'm doing a good job if I'm covering it up good, I guess. But thank you. Yeah. Frank Sinatra famously talked about regrets that he had a few. When you look back on your career, can you come up with any yourself? If I change anything in the back, it would change where I am now. And I really like where I am now.

So I wouldn't change a thing. That's a good way to look at it. You wouldn't change the road because it brought you where you. you are right now. Do you ever think back, Willie, boy, seven, eight-year-old Willie Nelson in Abbott, Texas, and thank my goodness, how did that little boy get to where you're sitting right now in life with your career? Well, you know, my sister and I have been playing music together all our lives. Yeah. And I figure that's what we'll always do, and I hope we can always do it together. But it's been an incredible, you know, life being able to play music and

make a living doing what you really love to do. And you've given so much joy, Willie, to so many people over the years. There aren't many people, I would say, that all of us can agree on in this country anymore. We're so divided. I think you and Dolly may be the last two. I love I was actually interviewing her a few weeks ago, and she was on her Christmas album, and she was talking about pretty paper and calling you up and asking if you'd do that song with her and how much she loved you and was hoping you'd say yes, and you did.

So you've had a chance to work with so many people. You mentioned your friendship with Frank, there's Dolly. Any stand out to you, Willie, over the course of your career, where you said, boy, I can't believe I'm on the same stage. Those two for sure. and I got to work with Ray Price, who was fantastic Sayer, and Ray Charles. I've been lucky. So you've done just about everything.

Is there anything out there as you look out to the horizon? You say, boy, I still haven't done that and I'd like to try it. I haven't done any skydiving yet. No. Does Annie know about this plan? No. Hey guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Willie Nelson right after the break.

Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Willie Nelson. Is there any truth to the legend that you wrote the famous song on the road again on the back of an air sickness bag somewhere out on the road? Well, yeah, it was in an airplane. I was flying with Sydney Pollock and somebody else. I forget the director of the movie. And they wanted me to write a song for the movie that we were going to do.

What was the movie? Honeycuckle Rose, yeah. Right. And they wanted me to write a song. and I said, what do you want me to, he said, well, something about being on the road again. I said, what about this? On the road again?

I can't wait, you get on the road again. I have a load like me as a brother. Can't wait, you get on. How about that? They said, yeah. Just like that, they asked for it and you delivered it. It was that easy, really. And so the only thing you had to write it on was the air sickness bag?

Yeah. Flipped it over. and made history, didn't you? Threw up and moved off. It's got to be cool. One more question for you, Will. It's got to be cool to stand on a stage with your son, Lucas, and play with him

and also to see the success that he's had. Well, yeah, Lucas and Michael both. They are incredible musicians. And it's always great to have your kids on stage with you. especially when they're real good. These kids are great. Yeah, they're awesome. It's fun to watch and especially when you hop up there with them.

Willie, thanks so much for the time. It's really an honor to talk to you. I appreciate it. Thank you, Willie. Take care. Thank you. My huge thanks to the great Willie Nelson for our conversation. His new album, That's Life, is out on February 26.

It was a privilege to spend even a few minutes with him. And one last shout out to his wonderful wife, Ann. As always, thanks to all of you for tuning in. If you want to hear more of the conversations with my guests every week, be sure to click subscribe so you never miss an episode. And of course, don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.