Switched on Pop - 25 Predictions for 2025: Grammys, J-pop, kazoos and more

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

2024 was an unpredictable year, and 2025 seems to be cut from the same cloth. So for this episode of Switched On Pop, Nate, Charlie, and Reanna look into the crystal ball of pop music to create a (playable) bingo card of predictions for the coming year – including AI songs on the Hot 100, a return of boy bands, and... kazoos? The Album of the Year race for this upcoming Grammys is similarly unpredictable, with a stacked nomination list including Grammy darlings Beyoncé and Billie as well as Gen-Z favorites like Charli and Chappell. The team takes a crack at guessing who will take home the award by debating the nominees, bracket-style. Subscribe to our newsletter to receive your own bingo card! Songs discussed: The Traveling Wilburys – Handle With Care Ghostwriter – Heart On My Sleeve (ft. AI Drake and AI The Weeknd) Songs from Silvio Berlusconi, Imelda Marcos, and Randi Zuckerberg Chino Pacas, Drake, Fuerza Regida – Modo Capone Elton John – Your Song Luis Fonsi, Daddy Yankee – Despacito Jack Black – Peaches Tyla – Water Rema, Selena Gomez – Calm Down Bloodhound Gang – The Bad Touch Megan thee Stallion, Yuki Chiba – Mamushi Joan Osborne – One of Us FKA Twigs – Eusexua Katy Perry – Woman's World David Bowie – Moonage Daydream Jimi Hendrix – Crosstown Traffic Jack Harlow – Lovin On Me Billie Eilish – CHIHIRO Billie Eilish – BIRDS OF A FEATHER Charli XCX – guess Charli XCX – 360 Charli XCX – i think about it all the time Charli XCX – 365 Beyoncé – TEXAS HOLD 'EM Beyoncé, Miley Cyrus – II MOST WANTED Beyoncé – YA YA Taylor Swift – I Can Do It With A Broken Heart Sabrina Carpenter – Espresso Chappell Roan – HOTTOGO Chappell Roan – Pink Pony Club Chappell Roan – Red Wine Supernova Outkast – Hey Ya! Andre 3000 – That Night In Hawaii When I Turned Into A Panther And Started Making These Low Register Purring Tones That I Couldn't Control ... Sh*t Was Wild Andre 3000 – I swear, I Really Wanted To Make A "Rap" Album But This Is Literally The Way The Wind Blew Me This Time Jacob Collier – 100,000 Voices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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great for a year per Meper RECords. Welcome to

Switch John Pop I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. I'm songwriter Charlie

Harding and I'm producer Rian Charlie, Rihanna, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. We're only, what, three or four weeks in to 2025, and it's a terrible year. Wildfires. Siegheiles at inaugurations.

Dark. And on top of everything, I fractured my scapula. Sorry to laugh. Not spatula as autocorrect likes to change it to. The shoulder blade got a big old broken bone as we were. record this. And yet, I'm here, we're all here, we must go on. How can we make 2025 a little more positive? How can we have something to look forward to? Fear not, comrades. I present to you the first edition of Switched on Pop Bingo. Sweet. We are going to make 2025 bearable by giving

ourselves a little game to play over the course of the next 12 months. We are going to come up with 24 predictions that we anticipate occurring in the pop music world and we are going to create bingo cards to share with not only the three of us, but everyone who listens to this show can play along. And any time you encounter one of our bingo categories out in the wild, you can mark it down and we will update you week after week on the pod as we see things materializing. And you know what? Whoever gets a complete bingo, we'll find some way to honor you for being. the most assiduous pop listener out there.

Okay, so if you want to play along, subscribe to our newsletter in our show notes, and we'll send you your very own bingo card. Okay, so we've got a five-by-five grid and a free space in the middle. Yeah. That means we have 24 predictions. That's eight apiece.

Okay. At the risk of this being a four-hour podcast, we got to get into this quickly. And I want to give a shout out to the host of the podcast, tipping pitches, my favorite leftist pro-union baseball podcast. Because they did this in 20, 24 and I was like that it was so much fun. We're shamelessly cribbing that idea. So we're going to do it like this.

Charlie will give us a prediction. Rihanna, you give a prediction. I'll give a prediction. And we'll go around like that and eventually we'll have our full grid. And then after the break, we're each going to make the biggest prediction of them all. Who's going to win the Grammy Award for Album of the Year? Eight megastars from Beyonce and Taylor Swift to Chapel Rhone and Andre 3,000 are battling it out in the wildest context. in recent memory with the winner being announced on February 2nd. So we're going to gaze into our crystal balls and talk about who should win album of the year.

But first to the bingo cards. Okay. Can I go first? Take it away, Charles. Bingo Square number one. Super group surprise. This is going to be the year that the next boy genius forms. Boy geniuses, of course, Phoebe Bridgers, Julian Baker, Lucy Dacus.

They had a Rolling Stone cover. They were just like all the craze during the pandemic. but they didn't have a top 40 hit. So I'm looking for a supergroup with a top 40 hit. Doesn't count if you are a co-lab. You've got to have three more members, a new name, and you get to be in the Hall of Fame with the likes of like the traveling Wilburys.

George Harrison, Bob Dylan, Tom Petty, Roy Arborson, Jeff Lynn. They had a number 45 hit with the song, Handel with Care in 1988. All right, there's our first entry. A supergroup cracks the top 40. Rihanna, what have you got? All right.

So I'm predicting a music video comeback. Now, I know like TikTok was going to be banned and then now is back, right? But I think the ensuing discord over TikTok as an app is going to lead to a pivot away from the snippet focus songwriting that we see on the app. And I think people are going to move towards the long form music video. Now, there's an article, do music videos still matter? Published by chart metric. And it says that 30, out of the top 40 tracks released between 2022 and 2023, had accompanying music videos. But those videos only garnered less than 400 million views, where the tracks themselves had over a billion streams. So there's clearly a discrepancy between the songs released and their videos. So I'm predicting 2025, get back to the MTV Days of Yore, and really put some emphasis on the music video.

So to track it, you're saying, like, video plays half, to outdo streams. Or at least equal. At least equal. Okay, cool. Yeah. What do you got, Nate? All right, I like it.

I'm going straight to a controversial issue. I think in 2025 we'll see an AI-generated song hit the Hot 100. In 2023, we had a controversy when this anonymous producer named Ghost Writer created a song, Heart on My Sleeve with the synthesized voices of Drake and the weekend. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a song that is completely generated inside an AI program, say like Suno or Udio, and it's not trying to emulate anything else as its own thing. And it gets all the way to the Hot 100.

I don't like it one bit. I have another one which I don't like. I think this could be the year of oligarch pop. I think this year either a major oligarch or politician is. going to release a pop song that becomes a viral hit. And this has happened before. Do you remember when Mark Zuckerberg's sister, Randy, put out a song about crypto? It was not good. Former Italian premier Sylvia Berlusconi and former cruise ship Kruner did put out a number of love songs in his career.

And of course, former First Lady of the Philippines and controversial figure, Amelda Marcos, put out an album, Amelda Pappin sings Amelda Marcos, which later inspired a Broadway musical by the great David Byrne. When the thing should play. So, oligarch pop, it's coming. All right, I'm taking a massive. I'm taking a large. I'm talking pop star triple album. Okay. So I'm predicting a big pop star releases a behemot of a record.

I'm talking three discs, right? Because this year, we saw several artists release massive, massive records. Siza just put out Lana, which is the SOS deluxe record. That has 38 songs. The deluxe edition of Torchid Poets Department by Taylor Swift, the anthology version, has 31 songs. Drake can't help himself from putting out a near 30 track record. I think we're really going to see in 2025 artists lean into this. And I'm seeing a three-disc triple album.

I'm talking like near 40 tracks. Wow. All right. 40 plus track triple album in 2025. It's happening. Prepare your ears. My next prediction involves an artist that's already come up a few times. He had a rough 2024.

I'm talking about Drake, who was just flattened like a cartoon character under a steamroller by Kendrick Lamar. You know, how do you recover from that kind of public beatdown? I think you have to retreat to a genre that is welcoming to everyone. Drake goes country in 2025. Drake, we're going to hear a straight up country song from the embattled Toronto rapper. That's my prediction. I don't see that as particularly out-of-pocket, Nate.

I think that's honestly very on brand. In fact, last year, 2024, Drake actually put out a Coritos track that nobody's talking about with Chino Pacas and Fueza Rehira. And I've brought it up to everybody because Drake clearly is having an identity crisis. And I think country might be his next move. He's already done the Mexican version of country. So why not just full send? The Drake Morgan Wallen crossover that nobody wants, here it comes.

All right, what is definitely happening this year, though? A thousand billions. Currently, there are 863 songs at a billion streams on Spotify. They call it the Billions Club. There's a whole playlist. Last year, 323 were added. So we're close to that threshold. And if they continue at the same amount, unless we get flooded with so many AI songs that songs just simply don't make a billion,

I think we're very likely to see a thousand songs in the Billions Club. One of the latest ones, Elton John's, Your Song, just joined the club. Huh. And you can tell everybody this is your song. So my next prediction,

you know, last episode, we talked about Bad Bunny. Bad Bunny currently has the number one album on the Billboard 200. I think in 2025, we're going to get the first Spanish language number one hit since Despacito.

So it's really been a minute since we've had Spanish number one. Oh, come on. That's going to happen next week. Bad Bunny is about to get it. Well, that gives people a little start, you know. We already have a given. Okay, Charlie, my next one is kind of the opposite of the one you just gave us. You're talking about people flocking to Spotify, to send songs up to a billion plays. I think we're going to see the exact opposite reaction as well. 2025 sees a Spotify boycott. Some organized mass of users will leave the platform. And I anticipate, let's say, three high-profile artists remove their music from the platforms. We've seen people

do this in the past, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Taylor Swift. I think it's 2025 is the year of the Spotify boycott. We've seen too much of how this company is eroding musicians' ability to make an honest living. So I think this is the year musicians and listeners fight. back. All right. I think that this year we're going to see some video game fame. You know, a song primarily either made for or first featured in a video game is going to go into the top 10. You might think this is ridiculous, but we know that video games are bigger than Hollywood. And they have crossed over together to make a hit somewhat recently. Peaches, peaches, peaches, peaches, peaches, peaches, peaches, peaches, peaches, peaches,

Jack Black's 2023 song Peaches from the Super Bowl. Mario Brothers movie went to 56 on the Hot 100. Wow. So I think it could happen in 2025 some video game fame on the charts. Okay. I'm actually excited for that. I like that. I like that.

And maybe it ties into my next prediction. We're going to get a new genre on the Hot 100. It's going to be a new genre with at least five songs on the Hot 100. It's been a minute, right? Maybe it's video game music, like a chip tune moment, you know, hits it big. But I think the charts, genre-wise, have been pretty stagnant, you know, and we're kind of getting some of the usual suspects, right? Like, country's really big.

Hip-hop had a pretty good year after a few years of declining numbers on the charts. So I think we're ready for a shake-up, and I think 2025 is going to give us something we've never heard before. Cool. This is fun. I can't wait to hear what new genres, our listeners, identify out there in the pop world. Oh, yeah.

I'm also thinking about what's new, Rihanna. In 2025, I think we are going to see an Afrobe. beats moment on the charts. Oh, yes, please. This is a genre that has been bubbling up for years, and we've seen some artists really break out recently. The South African singer Tila with her hit water representing the Amapiano genre, Rima featuring Selena Gomez.

I mean, there's Suburna Boy. There's so many artists from this genre, but I feel like it still hasn't happened. this like massive cultural moment. I think we're going to see that. Maybe let's say an Afrobeat song in the top five of the Billboard Hot 100. I like that. I think that this year is going to be the year of Brain Rot Pop. Brain rot is the theme of 2025.

The internet has ruined all of our minds. I think that we're going to see a song with the words brain rot, either in the title or heavily featured in the lyric, somewhere in the top 40. You know, if Baby Shark can do it, if who let the dogs out can do it. I mean, clearly Brain Rock can have its moment. And I think we need it because I would like to see the culture reach even lower than it did in 1999 with the Bloodhound Gangs, the Bad Touch, which went to number 52. Brain rot pop.

What's our next prediction? So my next prediction is two words, boy bands, all right? Yes. So, you know, 2024. I think was a tough year for the concept of the boy band. You know, Liam Payne famously of One Direction, passed away after years of substance abuse issues. And I think there's a lot of scrutiny around the concept of a boy band lately. You know, like I just saw the movie Better Man. Robbie Williams' monkey CGI biopic just came out. It's a musical. It's a banger.

But that movie spends a lot talking about like the tortures of being in a boy band. That being said, though, I think we've had a dearth of grief. groups on the Hot 100, right? We've talked about this on the show. Billboard published an article the middle of last year that said groups used to rule the hot 100. Now they're endangered on the chart. So I think 2025 could really see a boy band rise up and take one of the top spots on the chart. I'm talking maybe top 20. We're going to see a boy band. Cool. One of my favorite songs of 2024 was Megan the Stallions and Yuki Chiba's Mamushi. and I learned that this was one of the

history of the Billboard chart with Japanese lyrics. And the last number one song with Japanese lyrics was all the way back in like 1963. So it's been a while. We've had this huge K-pop moment, but I think J-pop is going to rocket onto the Billboard Hot 100 and become a similar cultural phenomenon

to what we've seen from K-pop over the last decade. So 2025, J-pop takes off. I can't stand for the Mr. Roboto Eurasia, but I don't think it really counts. Yes, we did miss that in our Mamushy episode, so important correction. Thank you, Charles. Okay, I think we're going to have a 90s Phoenix rise again.

Some major group for the 90s is going to have some kind of renaissance. They're going to put something new out. It's going to be in the top 20 of the Billboard 200. Yeah. And this is very possible. In the last to do it, Blink 182 had a top 200 hit with their album one more time. I think we're going to see another major 90s band revival. I'm looking at you, Creed.

Ooh, this is fun to think about. What about Joan Osborne 2025? What if God was one of us, part two. Let's go. I dig it. Let's see it. My prediction is kind of still in the 90s. I'm predicting a trans revival on the Hot World.

100. Now, I've talked about this for a few years now, and I'm really holding out hope that 2025 is the year that we're going to see trans music and its sonics appear in the top 40. Yeah, yeah, no, all night since. Exactly, Charlie. I mean, FK Twigs just put out an album, Usexua, heavy-laden in trans and techno sounds. Addison Ray is going to put out a record this year is perhaps my most anticipated album of the year. And her record was recently described in Rolling Stone as very trancy and very poppy. Now, I'm not saying these songs per se will hit the top 40, but I do think they're the precursor and they're going to pave the way for perhaps a big pop star, you know, maybe like

Duolipa with a song that sounds like in underground all night or rave. I'm counting on Kesha and Trance. Hell yeah. I think that would be a really great pivot for her, too. Sold. Okay. Trance in 2025. Here's a more somber prediction.

Charlie, you talked about a 90s Phoenix. I think we're going to see the exact opposite. I think we're going to see a legacy act bomb. Oh, no. We all remember where we were when Katie Perry released Woman's World. Oh, stop. In 2024. No.

That car crash of a comeback, I think sadly it's going to be repeated in 2025. And I think we just have to pray it's not Lady Gaga. Stop. Don't will that. Don't will that into the world. I'm sorry. I know that's close to home. But I think we are going to see a big comeback album from a major pop star flop in a really just hard-to-watch way.

Speaking of hard-to-watch, have you all been looking at the lights in the sky recently? Oh, brother. Not you in the drones, Charlie. Are you going drones here? Whoa. This was unexpected. We're talking to aliens. Like the U.S. government is all of a sudden.

Into aliens. I don't know how it's going to be in the new administration, but we've been getting all this, you know, these classified files coming out. I feel like peak alien fever is here. I think we're going to see a concept album that is about aliens chart in the top 20 of the Billboard 200. You might be thinking, this is ridiculous aliens.

Can I point you to Janelle Monet's Metropolis series of albums that featured Androids, Aliens, and Stories about a Future Society? Or how about Ziggy Stardust, which served as a messenger for extraterrestrial, beings channeled through the voice of David Bowie. I'm an alligator. Papa coming for you. I think it's possible that it's going to happen again this year.

I'm going to similarly go concept album and my prediction is going to be a big soundtrack album. Movie tie-in soundtrack goes massive. The Barbie soundtrack, which was released in 2023, sent hits all the way into 2020. Right? Like we had what was I made for by Billy Elish really do numbers in the first half of 2024. So I think we're kind of overdue for a new movie soundtrack, you know, along the lines of Barbie and Black Panther. I don't really know what property it would attach it to at this point. You know, the Michael Jackson movie comes out in 2025. Maybe there's like a cover record happening there in the back half of the year. It could also be for one of the family movies coming

out this year. I know there's a Minecraft movie starring Jack Black, another SpongeBob. joint. So I think a soundtrack album has potential to hit it big this year. I don't know if it's a development, but I think it's inevitable that My Little Nausex moment for my next prediction. I think we're going to see a hit song sung by a deceased artist. But not even an original song from them, like a brand new song using their voice. You know, what could this be? Elvis rapping about Pringles. Musk is going to revive the voice of Sinatra. Fly me to the Mars.

Bleak. Bleak things happening in 2025. I thought we were keeping this light. I thought we were keeping this exciting. I'm just trying to call it like I see it, folks. I think we have a back from the dead pop hit in 2025. All right. For my final prediction, I'm going to pull a wild card.

Kazoo makes a cameo. You might think that the. children's novelty instrument, the kazoo. I'm sorry, I'm probably insulting a kazoo. Hey, I have a kazoo sitting right over there, watch it, Charlie. Well, you know, the kazoo had an amazing cameo many years ago on Hendrix's cross-down traffic off the number one album, Electric Lady Land. I think we could use some more kazoo.

In fact, can someone send some kazooz to the music studio named after that album? Electric Lady, do you have kazzoos on hand? Let us know. I want to hear a kazoo cameo in 2025. All right, my last prediction. So there's a song in one of my favorite movies, Pop Star, Never Stop, Never Stop, That is titled, Turn Up the Beef. Okay, that's the name of my last prediction for 2025, turn up the beef.

2024 was a beef heavy year. You know, we talked about Kendrick and Drake on the show. And in the world of the pop star, you know, there was a little tension between Simerna Carpenter and Camila Cabello. So I think 2025 we're going to see another massive beef hit pop culture because clearly, beefs are successful. Not like us. Kendrick Lamar's big disc record had massive acclaim, broke records, right? So the disc track is proven to be a commercial success and a critical success at that. So I think 2025, we're going to get more beef. I'm ready. I got my fork and my knife and my bib ready to eat it up. What do you got, Nate?

Okay, my final prediction, for a long time, we've talked on this show about how songs are getting shorter and shorter. And in 2025, we're going to see a song that is less than two minutes chart on the Hot 100. Now, I'm not talking about like a skit or something or a little outro because sometimes these pop up and they're just a few seconds. I'm talking about a proper song that does not last past two minutes. Some artists have danced around this last year. Jack Harlow's Lovin' On Me was like two minutes and 20 seconds. Tommy Richmond's Million Dollar Baby was also in the low two minutes. But I want to see a sub two-minute pop song.

You know I like brevity. You know I like I like them short. I like my short kings. So I want a two-minute pop song on the Hot 100 in 2025. Give it up for the one-minute hit. So there's 24 predictions for the pop landscape in 2025. We had more. more that couldn't make the list, sadly. This is just, you know, the cream of the crop of our

predictions. And I'm sure you all have some too, which we would love to hear. But this is now locked in. Remember, you can access your own individually, randomly generated bingo card to play along over the course of the year by signing up for a newsletter at our website and keep us updated as you scratch these off, you know? Reach out to us on Instagram, TikTok, because some of these might be controversial, you know, a new genre. We need to debate some of these before we can mark them down. So that's going to be part of the fun of this as well. Speaking of debate and bringing the beef, we have the craziest competition for Album of the Year this year for the Grammys. When we come back, we're going to debate and choose who we think should win at this year's Grammys for Album of the Year.

Turn up the Beef. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova, and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay. Ready?

Ready? Do not sugarcoat something for me. No. No. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being unapologetic in their pursuits.

I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. Immigration may be Donald Trump's signature issue. President Trump is now targeting predominantly democratic cities for ice raids and deportations. Dozens of protesters clashing with immigration and customs enforcement agents in Minneapolis Tuesday. We will begin to press. of returning millions and millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to do in this space is talk about America and politics beyond the current president.

So what do most Americans think about deportation and border security, period? I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ICE. When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want to... order at the border. They don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. The view on immigration from the bottom up instead of the top down. That's this week on America Actually. Every Saturday in your audio and video feeds. On February 2nd, all the biggest stars in the world will be gathering in Los Angeles for a

restrained Grammys due to the wildfires. Many of the parties have been canceled. But the award ceremony is continuing at this point. You know, there's dozens and dozens of awards, but we always look at the big four, record of the year, song of the year, best new artists, and of course, album of the year. Now, do albums still matter? Absolutely. It's one of the big four categories. And this year, oh my gosh, have people brought it? We have Billy Elish's Hit Me Hard and Soft.

Charlie XX's Brat. Beyonce's Cowboy Carter. Taylor Swift, the tortured poets department. Sabrina Carpenter, short and sweet. Chapel around the rise and fall of a Midwest princess. and Andre 3000's New Blue Sun as well as Jacob Collier's Jesse Volume 4.

So, in the spirit of bringing in the beef, we're going to do this tournament style and we're going to debate two albums at a time. We'll each take a turn advocating for an album. Because there's three of us, one of us gets to be the deciding vote in each topic. We have eight albums, which gives us four rounds.

That will give us four semifinalists and we're going to choose a final finalist amongst those four. Excellent. Can't wait to be an arbiter of taste. This episode is like our Olympics. It's our games. Our games episode. Nate, your revision is my Olympics, but yes, this game will continue. We began with Billy Elish versus Charlie X-CX.

Wow. Can we get a Mortal Kombat sound effects right there? Literally. Great, we sound effects each time. Mortal Kombat. Nate, how do you feel about Billy Elish's Hit Me Hard and Soft? I'm a fan, Charles. This record was released in May. produced by Billy's brother, Phineas.

It debuted at number one on the Billboard 200 and some of the standout tracks, which we talked about when the album dropped, lunch, birds of a feather, Chehiro. I would describe the themes of this album as bending genres, being introspective about fame,

being incredibly personal and vulnerable about things like body image, and even exploring Billy's queer identity. If I had to pick one song from this album to highlight, it would be Birds of a Feather. It was the highest performing song from the album. And it features one of the most classic chord progressions in pop music, the 50s progression. The ice cream changes. One, six, four, five.

Nate, when we covered the release of this album, I think we did a 24-hour turnaround on that episode. And I had to make some decisions of what do we play, what's going to be interesting. The most accurate prediction I've ever made in my, My work as a music journalist was Birds of a Feather. I heard that song. It was not the lead single. Lunch was the lead single. And I was like, Birds of a Feather will be Billy's biggest hit off this album.

And it's going to just like ride the charts for the entire summer. And it did. It went to number two. It did not beat Shibuzi's bar song. But little known fact, bad guy is her only number one song. Well. Charlie, did you remember to stretch? because when you're patting yourself on the back like that

I just want to make sure you're not going to injure yourself I want to make sure you're limber says the guy who broke his arm Oh that's low That's low Wow All right

It's getting on here turning up the beef All right you better You better bring the heat with this brat defense now I mean okay Let me just ask both of you When you think of the summer and music associated with the summer, what would you say is the single word that describes the entire summer of 2024? I'm going to say not like us all one word, but... It's Brad Summer. It's Brat Summer.

Charlie X-EX has been working her entire career to have this culturally defining moment. Her album Brat debuted at number three on Billboard 200, her highest yet. She had amazing singles, Von Dutch, Club Classics, 360, Apple, guess. I mean, there's so many good songs here. And fundamentally, Brat taught us that it's okay to be messy and to be confident at the same time, which is to say, we can all be so Julia. There are so many musical standouts here. I think the final two songs are the greatest mashup of all time in the penalties.

ultimate song, I think about it all the time. She's confronting what she wants to do next to her life. Is fame really worth it? Does she want to have a baby? In the final song, 365, no, it's all partying 365. She is the most aggressive party song I've never heard. And it's also a reprise of the song 360 from the very beginning of the records. So the whole thing, you can play on repeat over and over again, which I did over the summer. Now, listen, I will give you two counterpoints for this record, and I'll let Rihanna be the deciding vote. Mm-hmm. One could say that declaring Kamala Bratt might have decided the outcome of a major election.

However you read that. And the song Guess, the remix of it featuring Billy Eilish, actually has more streams than any other song on Brat. Now, I think the remix album is arguably one of the best remix albums of all time. She completely re-recorded the entire thing. It's its own artistic statement. But that leaves us with Charlie versus Billy Rihanna, who wins. All right. I think that last point you made, that guest featuring Billy Elish had more streams than any song on Brat.

It's a tough one. It's a really close race. But I think I'm going to give it to Billy Elish. You know, there's a line on one of the Drake diss tracks from this year, right, that repeats in my head when I think about Billy Eilish. And it's, Kendrick just opened his mouth. Someone go hand them a Grammy right now. I feel like the Grammys do that with Billy Elish, and I think they really, really love her. And so I don't know, my money is kind of on Hit Me Hard and Soft for this one.

Wow, going basic, just like the Grammy's voter is just going to give it back to Billy. You're a Charlie traitor. Yeah, I know. I was lucky to get a famous brat hater, Rihanna Cruz. I'm not rigging it. I promise this isn't rigged. I know we have to move on, but this discussion is actually making me appreciate how much these albums have in common. They're both very self-reflective.

They're both made without any features, you know. They're very much like the statements of the artists themselves. And they both were like soundtracks of the year in profound ways. So everyone's a winner. Okay. Next category. We've got round two. Round two.

Beyonce first Taylor Swift. Wow. Dun-d-d-dun. And so, Rihanna, now you have an opportunity to make your stance for Beyonce's Cowboy Carter. All right. Cowboy Carter, not my favorite album in the world, but here's why I think it's going to win album of the year, okay? Released in March of 2024, everybody had their hands on this one from Grammy favorites like

John Batiste and Paul McCartney to producers like Raphael Cedek, Soundwave, Swiss beats. Miley Cyrus was on this joint. Post Malone was on this joint. Dolly Parton was on this joint. Come on. It's everybody was on this record. It was number one on the Billboard 200. It was critically acclaimed. You know, one of the biggest albums of the year, one of the best albums of the year is regarded by a number of publications. Okay. We got Texas Hold'em. Sixteen carriages. Two Most Wanted with Miley Cyrus. Levi's jeans with Post Malone. Beyonce just did the halftime show at a football game recently, called it the

Beyonce Bowl, did only cowboy carter hits, and really took the field by storm. Okay. And I think the album works well because it serves as kind of a tome, right, at a statement. It's an ideological statement of a record that country is black music, okay? And it's always been black music, and it will continue to be black music. It's a really loaded album. in that regard, but it has the music to back it up. I think there's a lot of musical standouts. It's a very long record. I think that's one of the issues with it.

I put quotes around that if you really had to give a counterpoint to this argument. But one of the standouts on the record to me is two most wanted stuette with Miley Cyrus. I'll be a shotgun rider till the day I die. Smoke out the window. And Yahya, which is an incredible look at the history of black music in relation to country. It's laden with samples, laden with the turplations. Beyonce is the most awarded and nominated artist in Grammy's history. But she has never won album of the year.

Okay, Renaissance lost to Harry Stiles in 2023. Beck's morning phase famously beat Beyonce back in 2015. So I think the narrative is skewing Beyonce this year. How are you going to be the most awarded artist in history but have never won album of the year, 2024? I think she's going to change that. I got to jump in real quick and share something about Cowboy Carter that we weren't able to pick apart when we did our show about it. And it has to do with the very first sounds that we heard on the record, which were the banjo sounds of Riannon Giddens on the hit single Texas Holdham.

And I learned after seeing Rian and Giddens perform that song that she's not playing it on any old banjo. She's actually playing it on the minstrel banjo. The minstrel banjo was one of the very first mass-produced banjo instruments. And it was created in the era of minstrelsy in which white performers would put on blackface and play the banjo in the style of enslaved people. And so to reclaim that sound with their menstrual banjo and to open a country album with that instrument is a profound statement. What an incredible accomplishment. This album is powerful. As a music historian, I find it incredibly exciting.

But y'all, history doesn't win Grammys. Bops do. And you know who has them? Taylor Swift on her album, The Tortured Poets Department. Sorry, not the, just tortured poets department. You're already flubbing your argument. I mean, you have to take the most, the worst. Nobody wants to take the stance, and you can't even get the album right.

Okay, watch, no, watch me do it, though. Okay. Okay. 2024 was the year of Taylor Swift, like it or not. It was the year of the heiress tour. It was the year of every NFL camera leaving the action on the field to pan to a skybox. It was the year of breaking records. And in the midst of it all, dropping this almost surprise release and then dropping another whole edition anthology on top of it, I mean, this is like the imperial era of Taylor Swift right here. This is what the emperor throws down at the peasants from the golden throne. Here, another self-introspected Jack Antonoff and Aaron Destner produced masterpiece. Here you go. And here's another, here's your bread and circus.

Here, okay, I lost the plot here a little bit. Does it have any musical standouts? Okay, I have to get back to the Bops. Yes, it does. It does. Let's talk about I can do it with a broken heart, okay? This is a song that takes all of Taylor Swift's narratives of heartbreak that she's been mining over the course of her career and translates it to her present victory. We actually have like crowd noise in the back of this track.

You know, this is the era's victory lap. And how empowering not just for her, but for all her fans and listeners to hear this and to siphon off that same kind of energy and bravado. Despite a broken heart, she can run on a treadmill and get ready for this era's tour and win the world and make a billion dollars on tour. And the great thing is I get to be the deciding vote.

And honestly, I don't think that the Grammys survive another year if they don't give it to Beyonce's Cowboy Carter. So right now, we've got Cowboy Carter up against potentially Billy Eilish, who was another Grammy's favorite. She seems to lose nothing. But that brings us to round three, Sabrina versus Chapel. Wow. I'm going to keep a short and sweet.

Sabrina Carpenter, man, she's been working so hard for so long from that Disney career to six studio albums or so. And is she the best new artist as well, which doesn't make any sense. But that's not the point. She put out just the perfect pop album, short and sweet. Not only does it describe her stature, but it, is a power-packed album that just defies genre. It's a postmodern bop full of country songs, folk songs, disco songs,

bubble gum pop, rock, R&B, explores Carpenter's love life and perspectives on 2020's dating, but done with just the most wonderful, winky, clever songwriting, who on earth can top that's that me espresso? Well, she can. She pairs it with a twangy curse on please, please, please, please. that just melts my heart. I love short and sweet. I think that this is the best album potentially of the whole year.

Rihanna Cruz. Well, now I'm in a tough position because I agree with Charlie, but I have been assigned to defend Chapel Rones' rise and fall of a Midwest Princess. So I will put my debate hat on. As a public defender here. Exactly. I'm going to do my job. You don't get to pick your clients.

Hopefully I do it well. So rise and fall of a Midwest princess. Princess, released in September of 2023, okay? So we have perhaps the oldest of the album of the year nominees. Which, by the way, Rianna, you were on it before anybody else.

You spoke with Chapel on our show last December before anybody was paying attention. Exactly. And the concept of the episode was artists to look out for in 2024. So who was right on the money? Me. Look up for those kazzoos in 2025. All right, sorry, back to Chapel Room.

So the record is produced by Dan Niagara and features such hits as Pink Pony Club, Red Wine Supernova, Hot to Go, which you cannot go anywhere this summer without hearing that. You know, Chapel Room drew the largest Lollapalooza crowd, I think ever, I remember reading. She has really been taking the world by Storm and the album as a whole is an emotional, exploration of queerness and embracing queer identity in all of its guises. It's very outright. It's very forthcoming with this lyrics and its themes and the things that it talks about. She's speaking in very direct terms about being a lesbian, which is always fun to hear on a mainstream pop record.

And a lot of people love it, you know? I don't know if I could consider myself a chapelhead, but I do respect it. You know, I think it was really, really hard to avoid this record. I have never pressed play on any of the songs myself in 2024, but I know the lyrics to every single off this record. And I think that says something, right? It says something about the melodies. It says something about the lyrics. They're catchy.

They're memorable. I think it's the dark horse. A lot of Grammy voters really like Chapel Rhone. So I think there's good odds her way. I hope I did a good job. Nate Sloan, you get to decide. You did a great job, Rihanna, because Chapel is winning this round. Wow, I'm two for two.

Despite your hesitancy, you presented a really powerful case for this being maybe the most inescapable album of 2024. When you were talking, I was like, yeah, everyone sings these songs. They're multi-generational. Exactly. Even though she's political, it's like, I feel like people of all backgrounds listen to this music. And when I sit down at the piano and play that D flat seven arpeggio, that starts Pink Pony Club, everyone in the room starts singing instantly. And that hasn't happened for a while.

So, yeah, I'm going chapel on this one. Sorry, Sabrina. I love you. It might also be, you know, a political choice. You know, we're entering the second Trump presidency, you know, and he's already rolled back protections against LGBTQ folks like myself. So we could see maybe some Grammy Vival. voters throw some points to the queer record, which I like.

All right. So far, we've got Billy Elish, Beyonce, Chapel Room. That brings us to round four, the underdog round. We have got Andre 3000's new blue up against Jacob Collier's Jesse Volume 4. Nate, how do you feel about the flute king? Andre 3000 is my personal hero. He has done something literally no pop artist has ever done before. 20 years ago before this album was released, it was released in 2023, like Chapel. It's like kind of a, you know, late, late contender. In 2003, he released Hayah. 20 years later, he gives us new Blue Sun and a completely instrumental album dominated by his acoustic and electric flute playing. It's psychedelic. It's introspective. It's meditative. It's 87 minutes long. Its song titles are novellas, untrue,

themselves. For instance, that night in Hawaii, when I turned into a panther and started making these low-register purring tones that I couldn't control, shit was wild. This album deserves Grammy of the Year because it would not just be rewarding the artistry on this album. It would be rewarding the courageousness of this album. And it would be Grammy voters making a stand for artistic bravery. And Andre 3000 even acknowledges this with the title of the first track in this album. I really wanted to make it. a rap album, but this is just the way the wind blew me. Awesome.

I think that deserves its accolades. I had some friends that hosted a New Blue Sun listening party, and we all sat down on cushions. We closed our eyes. We started listening to New Blue Sun. We made it through the first song, which I don't know if it was 15 minutes long, but it felt like it was 15 minutes long. At which point the host of the party were like,

we can all talk. We don't have to just sit and listen the entire time, It just felt a little too awkward to get that heady. And so that is part of my argument against that record. My job, though, is to argue for Jacob Collier's Jesse Volume 4. I mean, come on, a quadrilogy? How many quadrologies do we have in the world of popular music? This is a truly stunning work.

You know, I got to talk with Jacob about the making of this album. I think it was the first person to interview him about making this record. And he traveled the entire world, working with his musical heroes, putting together sounds that I think nobody else can put together. One might say that this is a boundless record, it doesn't have enough focus, there's too many different genres. I think Jacob Collier is the person

who really shows us the universal nature of music and can bring together disparate sounds in really compelling ways. And there's no better evidence for that than the piece 100,000 voices. The album begins with literally 100,000 different people singing. Jacob is famous. for his live performances where he gets his audiences to sing with him.

And we're not talking about sing-alongs. He does fully improvised harmonies of his audiences singing ooze and oz. And he sampled these various recordings to bring 100,000 voices together. I mean, if that doesn't speak for the power of music, what does? We've got our modern Mozart here, Jesse Volume 4, obviously going to win. These are two true underdogs, I think, for album of the year. I think I got to throw it to Jesse, Volume 4 and Jacob Collier. Rihanna, I did not see that coming.

I know, I know. I love New Blue Sun. I'm a flute head, you know. I'm a three-stacks flute head, but the Grammy loves somebody who can really shoot for the moon musically. I think when John Batiste won album of the year in 2021, caught everybody really off guard, myself included. So I think the John Battiste Award for...

for album of the year underdog goes to Jacob Collier in this round. I mean, we literally have an artist who has been minted as the next big thing by Quincy Jones and Herbie Hancock have basically been knighted this guy. That's what's going to happen. That leaves us, though. Now, in a very difficult position, we have four albums. We have Billy Elish's Hit Me Hard and Soft, Beyonce's, Cowboy Carter, Chapel Rones, the Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess, and Jacob Collier's, Jesse, Volume 4. And here's how we're going to decide the final round together. On the count of three, we're going to say out loud which album we think is going to win. And I hope that we'll find consensus. And if not, chaos will ensue.

Three, two, one, cowboy carton. Wow. What? What? What just happens? Maybe and contrarian. Oh, my gosh. Now, Nate, is that your personal opinion or your opinion of the Grammy voters?

It's both, baby. Wow. I think you all are underestimating child. Applaron's moment that she's having and overestimating the Grammy voters' conscience. They don't care that they haven't given Beyonce an award. This isn't Merrill Streep at the Oscars, or this isn't Martin Scorsese. This isn't Leonardo DiCaprio at the Oscars or something. They don't care. Right, right. They've shown over and over that they have no respect for her. Why should this year be any different? Yon Nate, I'm really happy for you. I'm going to let you finish,

but Beyonce had one of the best albums of all time. We're giving it to Cowboy Carter, Two beats one. That's what's happening in the Grammys this year. That's Switched-on Pop's predictions. Bingo. Play along with us throughout the entire year. Get your bingo card by subscribing to our newsletter in our show notes on our website. Friends, this has been delightful. It's great to brawl with you all. I've enjoyed our debate. Until next year. Switched on Pop is produced by Raina Cruz, edited by Art Chung, engineered by Brandon McFarlane, illustrations by Iris Gottlieb, theme music by Zach Tenario and Jossi Adams of Arc Iris. We're a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network at Production of Vulture,

which is part of New York Magazine. You can subscribe at nymag.com slash pop. Find us on social media at Switched on Pop. Tell us, A, what bingo categories you would have added to your own 2025 edition, and B, what your pick for Album of the Year of the Grammys is going to be. Check us out on Instagram, TikTok, Blue Sky, wherever you might be. We're there.

And make some noise. We'll be back again next Tuesday with a new episode. And until then, thanks for listening. Thanks for listening.