Switched on Pop - A Higher Power Ballad

Episode Date: April 12, 2022

The recorded version of Justin Bieber’s “Peaches” opens with a full-blast chorus alongside driving percussion and ringing guitars. But when he performed the song at this year’s Grammys, the song’s instrumentation was stripped down, with Bieber alone at a grand piano, crooning into the mic. Slowly, a band built up, and in came guest verses from Daniel Caesar and Giveon between seven repetitions of the chorus. Each time the chorus returned, the band got louder, the music pointing upward until a high-flying synth solo closed the song. It may have been a surprisingly churchy arrangement of Bieber’s hit, but it was the same sort of slow climb heard earlier in the night when Maverick City Music, the first Christian group to perform at the Grammys in 20 years, gave an uplifting performance of their song “Jireh,” off their award winning album Old Church Basement.  In the church tradition, the slow build is a common feature, beginning as a quiet prayer that expands outward as more voices join in. Naomi Raine, one of Maverick City Music’s members, describes this kind of slow build as a “common and underlying structure” that feels “supernatural and spiritual.” But it’s clearly not restricted to the church. “We are called to blur the lines as far as what is Christian and what is gospel — those two have been segregated for too long,” says the group’s leader, Chandler Moore. The expansiveness of the music is represented in Maverick City Music’s diverse makeup. The seven core members invite dozens of songwriters from countless backgrounds to songwriting camps to explore the traditions constraining boundaries. Having only started putting out music in 2019, Maverick City Music has since released more than 17 combined LPs and EPs in multiple genres, including worship, gospel, R&B, and Latin pop. Consistent across all those records is the transcendent slow build. After exploring the discography of Maverick City Music, one starts to hear the slow build all over pop music. In the case of Bieber, who is both friends with the group and has a religious background, previous hit songs like “Holy” and “Anyone” also use the technique. Even the reworked “Peaches” Bieber performed at the Grammys makes sense, given the chorus’s final line: “I get my life right from the source.” There has been a long history of stylistic exchange between the religious and secular world. There would be no rock and roll without gospel, and Christian Contemporary draws its sounds from the ’60s folk movement. Today, songs made for worship share qualities with power ballads, the former elevating the spirit, the latter coaxing out emotions. On the latest episode of Switched on Pop, hosts Charlie Harding and Nate Sloan speak with Maverick City Music and listen to songs both religious and secular that lift us up. Songs Discussed Justin Bieber - Peaches (feat. Daniel Ceasar & Giveon), Holy (feat. Chance The Rapper), Anyone Maverick City Music - Old Church Basement, Jireh, Same Blood, Used To This, Nadie Como Tú Coldplay - Fix You Céline Dion - Because You Loved Me Luther Vandross - Endless Love (with Mariah Carey) But, Honestly - Foo Fighters Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switchdown Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. Nate, do you know the song Peaches by Justin Bieber? I do. It's a bop, as the kids say. I got my peaches out in Georgia.

Oh, yeah, shit. I get my weed from California. That's that shit. I took my chick up to the north. Bad ass bitch. I get my light right from the source. Yeah, that shit. It's kind of like the Beach Boys, California girl.

for fruit and weed. Wait, I don't understand what you're talking about. Well, you know, in California, girls by the beach boys, they talk about girls from all over the country. And so he's doing the same thing, except with fruit and weed. I got my peaches out in Georgia. Oh, yeah, shit.

I get my weed from California. That's that shit. I took my chick up to the north, yeah. Bad-ass bitch. I get my light right from the source, yeah. Do you need me explain that further for you? Okay, I got it. You called Peaches a bop.

I kind of agreed with you. It's a song I've always enjoyed hearing. You know, it's one of these songs that's actually just a chorus. Like, yeah, there's other verses by Daniel Caesar and Givion, but like actually they repeat the chorus in the song seven times. It begins with a chorus and there's maybe little interludes that just chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus. I was like, it's a pop. It's a fun song. We need a term for that, like, perma chorus or something.

Permacorus. Yeah. But then everything changed for me when I heard this song performed just the other week at the Grammys. Check out how Justin Bieber starts the song there. My feet is out in Georgia. Okay, Justin. I get my chook up to the know, yeah, that's big. I get my life right from the sores. And I see you.

Okay, so we're grooving again. Yeah. Got that bop. It's happening. Mm. And then the song just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Okay. Don't be distracting.

This is the sweetest we are. And I'll be right here. Would you tell me? Yeah. And now I'm feeling like, wait a minute, that song, which just felt like it was one vibe all the way through chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus, permacorus, permacorus, permacorus, has been transformed where the song starts small and gets bigger and bigger and bigger all the way until the end. And I have this realization. It's not just the California girls thing and his weed and this and this and that.

It's the, him talking about his faith, right? Ah. He's talked publicly about his relationship to God and his faith. He's been a member of various mega evangelical churches and regularly attends worship services. And then right there in the chorus, there is the line. I get my light right from the source, which is a pretty. clear reference to faith and God. Interesting. So it's like watching this performance on the Grammys with its soulful arrangement,

its slow build, the impassioned vocals of Givion, you had this moment that you were like, oh, this has the potential to be a worship song. That's exactly right. And I guess I was sort of queued into it as well because not long before Bieber performed, a group called Maverick City Music was the first solo Christian group to perform at the Grammys in 20 years. No way. I hear these killer harmonies. I hear these repeating chord progressions.

I hear that build and lift. Yeah, there's a lot of similarities between the Peaches performance and this Maverick City music performance. I'm glad you're hearing those connections as well. I wanted to call up Maverick City music to give me a bit of a tutorial on how they create this feeling of uplift.

And it turns out that there's another reason and why they were a perfect source. One of the reasons I met one of my close friends, Justin Bieber, is because of our music. That's the voice of Chandler Moore. He's one of the members of Maverick City Music, whose music, in addition to reaching out to Justin Bieber, really touched a lot of the Christian world. Word. People started really discovering us during the pandemic 2020. At the time that Maverick City came out, there was a need for hope.

Maverick City music are relatively new. It's kind of surprising how quickly they got to. the Grammy stage. Maverick City came to be in this very unorthodox way. See, there are a bunch of songwriters who put together a songwriting camp to kind of mix up the sound of Christian music. They don't even call themselves a group. Maverick is a collective.

That's Naomi Rain. Alongside Chandler, there are seven core members of the group, but wow, at least a hundred have participated in these songwriting camps. Cool. And they've already released since 2019. 15 albums, NEPs. Wait, wait, wait.

Since when? Since 2019. Just in the last couple of years. They told me they've written thousands of songs. Okay, so that's like five albums a year and approximately 20 members per year. Okay, impressive. One of the things that impressed me was the broad spectrum of music that you hear from Maverick City.

It started as a place and a space for people to meet around the tables. Our music is very diverse. You're going to see black people, you're going to see white people, you're going to see Indians, you're going to see Hispanic. You're going to see all type of people worshiping to the same music. You can hear the diversity and enormity of those voices in a song like Old Church Basement off their album of the same name that also won the Grammy this year.

Here's Naomi again. You know, it's not like three-part harmony. It's like a 50-part harmony. All of these different voices means that their music is as diverse. as the collective, you know, in the world of the Christian music umbrella, there's so many genres. Soft rock worship to screaming organs with full choir gospel. Maverick City music bridges a lot of those divides. We are called to blur that line as far as what is Christian, what is gospel music?

Those two have been segregated for so long. I think that Christian music is not a genre. Christian is a message. Let me play you what they're talking about. Okay. you can hear a soft rock-like vibe in a song like Jira. You've got Latin pop in their song Nadiqamo too. And even R&B in the song, Same Blood.

But something I notice in their music is that no matter the genre that they're playing in, in addition to the message, there's also this common energy in their underlying structure. When we're writing a verse, there's a storyline. When we get to the chorus, we want you to think about what you're saying, but we don't want you having to think about words as much. We just want you to get there and we're in the moment. It's more anthony. Anthemy.

You can feel how the chorus swells into an anthem in the first song we played, Jira. It's going to feel like it's directly to God, and it's going to feel supernatural and spiritual because we are connecting to the Holy Spirit of God. I ask them what makes that connection. How do they evoke that feeling of the supernatural as songwriters? I think initially we try to start out centered and a little more calm. I think we always actually get to a place where we're bouncing, jumping, or feeling some sort of energies. It's like this slow, gradual incline.

To get that kind of cathartic payoff, you really need to be patient in the way you build the song. You can't rush it. You have to wait. And I wonder, forgive me if I'm going to send us off track, but is that why so many worship songs are much longer than a lot of pop songs? You know, maybe seven, eight minutes and why they might not work on formats like the radio because they have these long builds. I think specifically worship music, which has written. to be performed in a church setting has a really different set of criteria

than what you want from radio. You want participation, repetition, and that feeling of that ever-rising climb. Yeah. I feel like we need to give a name to that structure. Like, it's kind of like a power ballad. Mm-hmm. What if we called it a higher power ballad?

I like it. All right. We're going to use that. Lots of Christian music. uses this higher power ballad dynamic, if you allow me. But I feel like there's something else that sets Maverick City music apart from what else is happening in the contemporary Christian landscape. Here's Chandler again.

Our generation is very desperate for authenticity. So the dynamics of that room in every song is authentic to what that moment is. You can hear real people. You can hear clothes and fingers and feet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it sounds like they're in the room with us. You hear us talking and laughing before, before we start recording, which I think makes it just feel like, oh, we're just with the people. It does sound like a departure from so much top 40 pop, which is so carefully engineered and manicured to sound almost as if it was recorded like in an airless vacuum.

This, by contrast, has, like, echoes and reverbs. stumps and rustles. And like they said, it feels authentic. It feels like you're in the room. Yeah, there's a lot of ways that Maverick City music is in conversation with the world of pop, the genre stuff, familiar chords and melodies. But that higher power dynamic and that live spontaneity does really stand out to me. And it made me want to consider what happens now when we go back and listen to the Bieber. Are we getting some of those vibes? Take me there. I'm kind of an idiot for not realizing this when we spoke about his song Holy back, I think, last summer.

Yeah. It's right there in front of us in the title. I mean, that's not the reason you're an idiot, but yeah, that is, I guess, part of it. So please continue. Well, let's let this song forgive me. We start with the soft piano opening. I hear a lot about sinners. The lyrics are on the nose.

And then the song just. builds. Like a track star, can't wait until the second. There's a way you hold me, oh me, hold me, home me, feel so holy.

And then by the end, it reaches an apex. There we have it, right? That's that ever rising build, the higher power ballad, and all of those spontaneous improv vocal moments

that it feels like you're in the room. Yeah, there we go. There's been a long history of interplay between secular and religious music. This is nothing new. Like, it goes way back. You can go to the 16th century. Martin Luther incorporated folk music into his hymns, hymns that composers like Bach were used to create inspiration for his Baroque pieces

that then classical musicians brought into the secular world. And in modern days, you wouldn't have rock and roll without gospel. Christian contemporary music is undeniable. inspired by secular rock and folk music of the 60s. And when you tune into contemporary Christian music, you're going to hear verse, chorus, pop songs with familiar progressions and melodies, but with that extra layer of the higher power energy bill,

maybe some of those great improvised moments. And I think it's important to remember that, because sometimes I'm like, oh, that kind of sounds like a marketing gimmick of like you're just trying to get people into the pews by playing something kind of contemporary. And then I remember, no, these things are interwoven. constantly trading. And for me, as someone who's not in the church, I think it's a real testament to the power of that music that those dynamics really work on us. I mean, it is powerful

listening to it. So what I want to do in the second half of our conversation is look at how the secular world uses that higher power ballad concept to evoke great emotion. Cool. Pulsed in the banner, make the quiz, and discover your fragrance euphoria. Convience your passion

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other world. That is music for your ears. I really appreciated your period of peri-a-merec.combe. I really appreciated Maverick City music sharing with us this structure,

this higher power-ballot idea. And upon hearing it then in the Bieber, I'm realizing that it's actually fairly ubiquitous. Like, this is a form that we just don't talk about enough, but it's all over the place. So what I want to do, Nate, is I want to play you some of my favorites of a playlist that I created of,

higher power ballads. And I want you to name, what is it that they're doing within this format? How does it make you feel? I'm ready. The first is one that I actually think that you can just play in church. It's cold plays fix you.

Here we start with some very churchly organ. By the middle of the song, the organ opens up. Guitar and piano. And then we get full rock band moment, which lead us into a choir of giant voices at the end of the song. There it is. Higher power ballad. We are peeking at the end of that.

I feel like the only thing it's missing is the call and response vocals between soloists and choir that we get in Maverick City music. otherwise, this could probably rock in a church, I would think, with some lyrical amendations. I think it's very fitting. I want to move on now to, I think, actually, the person who might be the true master of this form. Do you have a guess? It's a songwriter. A songwriter who builds things up and up and then they explode.

it's either Jim Steinman or Diane Warren Yes, Diane Warren Yeah Cool Now we could talk about Aerosmiths

I don't want to miss a thing We could talk about Leanne Rhymes How Do I live But I think we have to talk about Celine Dion's Because you loved me By Diane Warren

We'll move forward Okay And we got to go to the biggest moment Mm I'm feeling that I'm feeling that higher power. I'm feeling that slow build. And we even get a little call in response there.

Yeah, we do. Between Celine and what sounds like a bunch of other Salines. What does it want to make you feel? It makes me feel hopeful. What does it make you feel? Is it just way too corner to say fully immersed in love? I feel like the song is surrounding you with the biggest hug, and it just gets bigger and bigger and squeezes you in.

too, Cardi. In fact, you're making me tear up right now, Charlie. It's beautiful. I mean, the Celine Diane Warren combo is, whew, it is, it's a lot. It's a lot. Speaking of combinations, one of my favorite duets ever, Luther Van Dross,

Moriah Carey, endless love. I thought you're going to say Pizza Hut and Taco Bell, but go on. You can't leave Kentucky Fried Chicken out of the bunch. Combination Pizza Hut and Taco Bell. It's a very specific reference, Charlie. it's kind of ruined, let's go on. All right, and let's love. Of course, you know how we're going to start.

The amazing voice of Luther. And then the drums come in. Mariah. Just when you think two people could not be more in love. I feel like by the end, there's actually more ad libs than there are lyrics. I mean, listening to these three songs by Colplay, Celine Dion, Luther Vandra,

and Mariah Carey, all coming from very different genres. My takeaway is that the sound of Christian music, especially black gospel music, is so deeply baked into the fabric of American popular music writ large, that it takes the kind of stepping back and the kind of expansive listening that you're asking of us right now to really appreciate that influence and to hear it clearly and how it touches so many diverse genres of music with this slow build and this cathartic ending. I mean, that all comes back to the influence of the church and especially, I think, the black gospel tradition. Yeah, man, and you know the way that genres are just ever evolving, chameleonic, if you will? Is that a word? Sure. We'll give it to you.

Why not? I'm taking it. Sometimes we don't necessarily. hear the direct influences. Like you don't hear a gospel choir or a church organ. You might only hear the underlying structure. I made a playlist of so many songs that have this kind of feel.

There was a new one by chance the rapper called Child of God that I love. That one's a little bit more on point. You're like, yeah, it's got all the stuff. But, you know, even before he was doing the Sunday Services, Kanye West on my beautiful dark twisted fantasy, has a song like Lost in the Woods that does it. Metallica does it. L.C.

sound system, Gloria Gaynor, Nine Inch Nails, Miley Cyrus, Barbara Streisand. There's so many. But I want to end with one today that is really in memory of somebody great. This is the song, but honestly, by Foo Fighters, in honor of Taylor Hawkins, who's recently passed.

That's great. Start slow, simple guitars, vocal comes in. The song picks up in the middle, as we expect. Bass, electric guitars, subtle kick drum, and then the full power of Taylor Hawkins

at the song's Zenith. I'm thinking about something Chandler said in the first half of the show when he said that people right now are desperate for authenticity. And I feel like there's something about these formal structures that demand of you to be patient, to wait, to pay attention,

and that there will be this payoff at the end that is really refreshing in a world of instant gratification. It's like this puts you in a place of contemplation in a way. in a place of a higher power valid? Sure. All right. We coined it. And I'm really glad you had this epiphany listening to Justin Bieber at the Grammys

because you've helped me think about how to hear the Christian gospel roots of so much music. Because you've given me a way to listen through songs into the possible gospel and Christian roots. that structure them. And that's really cool. Switched on Pop is edited by Jolie Myers, engineered by Brandon McFarland, illustrations by Iris Gottlieb, community management by Abby Barr, our executive producers, Arna Cora, and Hannah Rosen, a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network, and a production of Vulture. You can find more episodes anywhere you get podcasts and our website, switchedonpop.com. Hit us up on Twitter, Instagram, at Switched on Pop.

Tell us what your favorite higher power ballads are. And Charlie, it sounds like you've got a playlist to share with the people too. I do. I'll make sure that we share that in all the places. And other than that, we're going to be back again next Tuesday. And until then, thanks for listening.