Switched on Pop - All roads lead to Pharrell: Tyler, Clipse, and Cardi

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

The conversation around the new music this summer has been a dour one. Some of the biggest songs in the country right now are downtempo stomp-clap anthems and wistful Cranberries pastiche. Even on this very show, Nate and Charlie have asked: where's the fun? As it turns out, the party (as always) is happening in hip-hop, led by a formidable influence: Pharrell.. On this episode of Switched On Pop, producer Reanna and engineer Brandon join Charlie for a tour through rap music's latest sweaty offerings, including the new album by Tyler, the Creator, Clipse's return to music, and catchphrase worthy singles by Cardi B, PLUTO, and Drake. Songs discussed: Tyler, The Creator, Pharrell Williams – Big Poe Nelly – Hot in Herre Noreaga – Superthug Kelis – Milkshake Tyler, The Creator, Cole Alexander – Deathcamp N.E.R.D. – Rockstar Tyler, The Creator – Ring Ring Ring Tyler, The Creator, Frank Ocean, Steve Lacy – 911 / Mr. Lonely Tyler, The Creator – I THINK Mr. Fingers – Mystery of Love Michael Jackson – Off the Wall N.E.R.D., Nelly Furtado – Hot-n-Fun N.E.R.D. – Things Are Getting Better Pharrell, Nelly – Baby Clipse – So Be It Clipse – Virginia Clipse – Intro Talal Madah – Maza Akoulou Beastie Boys – Paul Revere Clipse – Ace Trumpets Clipse, John Legend, Voices of Fire – The Birds Don't Sing Cardi B – Outside Cardi B – Bodak Yellow Cardi B, Bad Bunny, J Balvin – I Like It Cardi B, Megan Thee Stallion – WAP Cardi B – Up PLUTO, YK Niece – WHIM WHAMIEE OJ Da Juiceman, Gucci Mane – Make tha Trap Say Aye Roxanne Shante – Roxanne's Revenge Drake, Central Cee – Which One? Drake, Rihanna – Too Good Rihanna, Drake – Work Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're tired of endless scrolling to figure out where to eat, same. I'm Stephanie Wu, editor-in-chief of Eater. We've just launched the new-ish and way better Eater app. It has all the restaurants we love, gives you personalized picks wherever you are, and serves up smarter search results just for you. You can find my list of the best places for martinis and fries in New York City. And save your favorite spots, share lists, follow editors, and book right in the app. Download the eater app at eaterapp.com.

It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switchdown Pub. I am producer Rianna Cruz. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. Dr. Sloan is on vacation, and so we are graced by the great engineer Brandon McFarland. Hello. What's up? I'm back. Always a pleasure to have you here. Boghorns, lasers, smoke show.

Hell yeah. I'll add all that in later. Happy to have you here, Brandon. Makes the show sound good. Happy to be here. So recently we had an episode about the song of the summer. After that episode, I went to check out the Billboard charts. And when I checked, I saw that there's no hip hop in the top 10 anymore.

What? That really surprised me. I mean, the closest thing to it is Luther at 12 by Kendrick Lamar and Siza. R&B throwback track. Exactly. And that really surprised me because I feel like this summer, specifically, there's been some really great hip-hop releases. True.

And so what I'd like to do today with the two of you is look at some of the tent pole releases in hip-hop this summer, specifically albums by Tyler the Creator and Clips. And then we'll do a sort of singles roulette where we look at three songs that are currently having a moment

in the genre's mainstream. Look at Brandon's smile right now. I'm so excited. Let's talk. The perfect episode to have Brandon on. Yes, I knew if I had the call, I was going to talk some hip-hop. It's my favorite thing to do.

Let's go. Brandon, one of a kind music producer you have produced in the world of hip hop. And these records by Tyler and clips, I think, are, like, completely in your wheelhouse. This is like a little bit of millennial fodder here. It is. This is my high school Neptune's fandom all over again. I get to fan out about Farrell and his amazing beats in the clips. But then also, which I think we'll probably talk about later, Tyler is kind of like

the offspring of that. So I'm in heaven. I'm enjoying all of this. Rihanna, where do we start? Sweet. I'd like to start with the latest from Tyler the Creator. His album, Don't Tap the Glass, which starts with this. Welcome.

Number one, body movement. No sitting still. Number two, only speak in glory. Leave your baggage at home. Number that deep shit. Number three, don't tap the glass. Before the beat even kicks in, we get this intro from Tyler. This is the song Big Poe instructing the listener how to consume the record before it even begins.

I love that. Yeah, more manifesto than intro. He's saying, you got to move your body. Like, actually what we're doing right now is not allowed. You're not allowed to sit down and talk about music. So we might have to like put our standing desks up, shake the booty a little bit, move the hips. He's like, none of that deep shit. Tyler is known for, you know, very complicated personas, interwoven, lyrical messages across albums.

This is, like, move. I love the vocoder voice. And then there's Tyler in his, like, most California accent in the back, like, saying these little things is, like, funky. Dance, bro. Like, it sets you up to have fun. Yeah, it reminds me a lot of, like, classic electro. Number one. body movement.

And I like this intro because it feels so conceptual in a way that is different than I think most records in the streaming era. Tyler is known for these albums that aren't necessarily concept albums, but they have a similar sound and theme. You know, Flower Boy was him expressing a sensitive side, chromocopia. He was crafting this alternate universe. This is like so simple, but sets the tone for a dancey, fun. bouncy record. You know, you already know that you're going to be moving.

So let's move. Yeah, let's get into it. Burned shit down. Turning shit up. I don't consent. I don't get fucks. You on my dick. Nigger get up. Why your lips off while I zip up? I'm a sick cup. Girl, I'm nasty. Eat the cream kind of. In your face. Blap. Slapped. Immediately, we got a different vibe. Just the first light on the song after the intro going, burn this shit down, turn this shit up. Like, that's hard.

He's also putting us on a very specific time and place. Like, these strong synthesizers, these sampled beats, very sort of like 2000s era hip hop. And that's very well aligned with this manifesto that he's set up. When I teach about the history of hip hop in my coursework, we talk about this sort of like ebb and flow of sometimes hip hop is like fun party music like in its founding. And sometimes hip hop is like deep cultural commentary or refurb. reflecting the lived experience of black urban America, like gangster rap. But the 2000s were an era where hip-hop was really fun. It's party hip-hop.

It's the mixture of synthesizers, dance beats, and that's what I'm hearing on the first track of Tyler's new album. To that point, and back to the Neptunes, you hear the half-step. It's one of those half-step melodies. The whole time. The Neptunes and Pharrell love that half-step sound. Just to be clear, like, what we mean by this half-step thing is it's just like playing two notes back and forth, like the Jaws note. You do that, and it's like a Neptune's beat.

So we're talking like Hot and Her. Nelly. Brandon, what are some other, there's so many, what are some other good examples? Okay, one song that comes to mind that does the Half-Step beat is Super Thub by Nouri. Hey, yo, we light a candle. Run laps around the English channel. Yo, heat. I know we're listening to this like 25 years removed or whatever, but hearing this in the early 2000s was absolutely insane.

You were just like, what is even happening? It reminds me a milkshake by Calais as well that does the same thing. La la. It's that. La la la la la. Okay. And we're hearing the same thing on Tyler. Rent it back.

He's running us back to the 2000s. Burn it shit down. Turn this shit up. I don't consent. I don't get fucks. It's men, I get up, why you looks off while I zip up. It's menacing, it's quirky, but it's fun. So Tyler's last record, Chromacopia, was more serious and heady.

You know, there were some brash songs on it. I know Sticky was a big radio hit. But on the whole, it was a vulnerable record. Big Po evokes to me previous Tyler songs that had so much energy and really grabbed your attention. It reminds me of the first track off of his 2015 album, Cherry Bomb, Death Camp. So fun.

It's got that same half-step thing, but then at the end of every phrase, it turns major. Yeah. It's both like really dark and minor and that very major. He's really messing with us. He wears his influence on his sleeve like this

because, like I said, I'm also a Neptune's baby, and so, you know, Farrell's rock band is N-E-R-D. Like, that's what this gives. Once the guitars come in and it starts sounding like rock star from the first NERD album. I can hear the NERD influence in this one. You can also hear the vocal processing. It's so similar.

So we have this nerd-inspired beat, right? So along with the intro, we got to mention skateboard, skateboard, the featured performer who has a couple verses on this track. I'm in Paris where it rains Married to the game For the carrots in the rains And what you drive You can't compare it to the chains Tome I kind of hurry up with the plane

G, seven hundred Oh they glow are eight thousand Those are extended with the mousin But jangy for the pran says the housing I got a bunch of woods They are downpick Hout Mm-hmm

Skateboard is an alias from Star Producer Slash Rapper Slash Lgo Officionado I watched his biopic Farrell I feel like I buy this vocal a lot more than I buy his vocal on Lose Yourself to Dance and Get Lucky.

Like, this is his home base. Yeah, he sounds good. And his voice on these verses is delivered with such a cadence that it feels almost put on. You know, it feels almost like he's not supposed to be recognized. I mean, the feature is from skateboard, you know. He's credited as Farrell Williams on streaming. But the title of the song is Big Po featuring skateboard.

Yeah, new persona? I'm not mad. I mean, he's linking with Tyler who does personas all the time, you know? Isn't that honestly him, though? It's like he was the Neptune's duo. He was an ERD. He's someone who brought a very futurist and yet unheard of sound to the world of hip-hop that really transcends hip-hop.

I mean, he makes hip-hop. He makes dance music. He makes pop music. He makes everything. And I think leaning into persona and the sort of caricature of the, fun, club-oriented hip-hop of the 2000s is actually really on point. It's so braggadocious, man. My favorite line is mouthful of rocks like Dino.

Like, what a way to say you have diamonds in your teeth. Fuck around and get found in. I like two necks, polos and chinos. A mouthful of rocks like Dino. Yellow diamonds. I'm a joke of Nihon. Help me that with my reference. We're talking with Dino from the Flintstones, like the dinosaur from these rocks.

Yep. So if you smack together, Ferell, electro, music, and Buster Rhymes, you get Big Po. And I want to stay on Forel for a second, right? Because, for one, he's going to be all over this episode. Nearly every song we talk about today is going to have a connection to Feral. But don't tap the glass is indebted to his work. For example, take another one of the record's big tracks, the song, Ring, Ring, Ring. For the record, everybody here, we are listening to Tyler.

We are abiding by his manifesto. We are dancing, listening to this record. We are moving while podcasting. I didn't know this was possible. Can't help. So we got another bouncy dance, hip-hop track. And off the bat, Ring-R-R-Ring-Ring is similar to Big Poe in a few ways. You know, we got a call to action in the chorus.

Ring-Ring-Ring, pick up the phone. There was the call-to-action in the Big Po intro. Like Big Poe referenced Tyler's previous track Death Camp. There's references here to previous Tyler tracks. Ring-Ring-Ring uses a metaphor of a phone. call, which connects with Tyler's previous album, Call Me When You Get Lost. He also loves a phone metaphor. It's all over his catalog. It's on songs like 911 Mr. Lonely off of Flower Boy. And the beat of Ring Ring Ring reminds me of other Tyler

tracks like, I think, off of Igor. This is part of what makes Tyler such a great artist to talk about. He's an autur, right? He self-tebrose. produces most of his work. He's super involved in every creative decision that is made in his project. Yeah. And he's self-referencing himself. He's referencing lots of other music. I mean, can we talk about that baseline in Ring, Ring, Ring for a second? Well, I hope you miss your touch. I miss your smell. I miss your lips. If he wants to make a dance record, there's probably no better thing to cite than a classic house track like Mystery of Love by Mr. Fingers.

To be clear, this is more of an interpolation and a nod. That song was previously sampled by Kanye on The Life of Pablo and the song Fade. But I think he is trying to place us in this mindset of mid-90s house music, dance infused with 2000s hip-hop. You know what I heard, though? What's that? Humor me for a second. I heard like a little bit of Michael Jackson off the wall, like that bass line. Yeah.

It's kind of similar. People on Genius say it's interpolated I hope you're good I hope you well I hope you touch It's close Oh yeah It's in there

Okay so like lots of dance music Is happening in this baseline It's working hard for us Yeah and I mean Farrell is already on the record You know we heard him on Big Po But this song also is heavily Inspired by Farrell

I know we mentioned NERD In the context of Big Po But I see a connection between Ring Ring ring and NERD songs like Hot and fun. live instrumentation, sort of like rock instrumentation into the world of hip hop.

Exactly. That's their version of a rock band. I wish I had a name for the type of like sound. It's like galaxy, almost prog rock, hip hop sound. It's crazy. And it's a direct lineage into, I think, the sound of Tyler. Right. This is a little bit more disco with the strings,

but we've got those sampled acoustic drums in the background. We've got piano, keyboards, a bass line, which I think is like plausibly an elastic. electric bass, but probably a synthesizer. Yeah. But let me just say, NERD had other sounds than this, like, massive, hard-hitting rap-rock hybrid.

They could also go softer. And I think a song, like, things are getting better off of In Search of, reminds me of the part that I just played of Ring, Ring, Ring. Disco vibes. Yeah, it's their attempt at Sheik. I mean, we can't give for real enough flowers here, but I do want to show my age and just mention

this album that people don't really talk about that much, but Farrell released like a solo record. It's called In My Mind, and there's a few songs on there that remind me of Ringring. One of them is called Baby with Farrell and Nelly. Yeah, it's something that happens when you're like, those hip-hop producers that can do everything themselves, they get to this zone where they can pick any instrument

and make it sound good, almost. So Don't Top the Glass is filled with this danceable genre-spanning hip-hop. but we can cite Farrell and NERD as the genesis point of that, along with the Neptunes. And, you know, I think we could just call 2025 the summer of Farrell, Loki, because he is also the executive and only producer on the other landmark hip-hop album this summer. The Virginia duo Clips made a return to music with their album, Let God Sort Them Out. Baller title. Let's listen to their track, so be it.

see it. I be bentley driven and very strategic. R. M's sleeve, no diamonds are needed. Floods are heated. So be it. Fucking with pee, get something to meet you. You so don't like your body. We help you free it. Then we wait for TMZ to leak it. It ain't no secrets. So clips is a duo,

two brothers, push a tea, and malice. Both of them have had varying levels of success over the past few years since Clips's last record, which was released in 2009. Big gap in release. Yeah. In that span of time, Malice left the group. Pusha T. went with Kanye and good music. You know, just a real brief thing.

Malice, he found religion. He became a Christian or recommitted his life to Jesus. And so we didn't really hear from Malice. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. You got to say, like, Clips is also known for developing their sound as like Coke hip hop. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely.

Like playing the mobster, gangster character, Coke-slinging. I mean, you listen to the first lines of Virginia off of their album, Lord Willen, and they spell it out for you right there. I'm from Virginia. Where ain't shit to do with cook. Pack it up, sell it triple price. Fuck the books. Where we re-up, relocate, re-off the roof-the-roof-the-roof-love.

You know which one I was thinking about? The very first song on that album, Pusha says, we ain't the same. I'm into Kane. and guns. Like, it just set the tone right off the top. Players, we ain't the same.

I'm in the cane and guns. Chopin'all with the fishes, make the facelift numb. Out in Panama, that amazing sun. I'm amazing, son. You niggas wonder where my grace is from. They're like Grand Theft Auto music. The beats are fun because Ferell discovered them

made all the beats. And so it's like party music with hints of 90s gangster rap, but clearly the most over-the-top hyperboized version of that. Yeah, for me, it always defined like the streets of Virginia, because I've never been to Virginia. This was like my window into that. So that was 2002, bringing it to 2025. So be it features another Farrell beat.

You know, I want to stay on the Farrell tip here for a second. And look at the beat that we got cooking, right? When the song starts, we get a striking sample. 16,000 square. 8 million up there, 2 million down here. When I was born, So what we're hearing is a pitched down version of Saudi Arabian musician Talal Mada and his song Maza Aqul.

Mada a cool. Beautiful strings. is it doing there? Does it have any commentary on the music? Great question. I don't really know. Here's what I think. I think there was a period in the early 2000s where hip-hop producers would

use Arabic, you know, Middle Eastern samples in the music to give it, I don't know, a kind of exotic quotes around that feel. Right. You know, it reminds me of the stuff that Timbalin would pull off or like how Bloodshy and Avant grabbed a vintage

Bollywood score to do Toxic by Britney Spears. Right. By the way, Timbalin and Farel went to high school together just so we remember that. They're both from Virginia Beach. Like this whole thing is just like Virginia Beach is what we're talking about. But I feel like then people spent 10 years on the internet talking about cultural appropriation and like who has the right to use what sounds. I feel like in a certain way, clips are preempting that criticism because if there's anything that runs throughout this entire album, it's this one line, they keep playing over and over and over again, this is culturally inappropriate. They use it all over the place, and it's working on multiple levels. On one level, it's sort of

anticipating the criticism of cultural appropriation, which I think is a very valuable conversation to be had, even though we now live in a world or people just go on podcast and say whatever they want. I think it's also trying to preempt the criticism of like, this is Coke wrap. It's bad for the culture when it's really no different than a movie like Scarface or The Godfather. It's working in those kind of metaphors. And they're cheekily playing at the criticisms that they're going to receive. And we're here for the rhymes. You know what we're here. We're here for the metaphors. And I just wanted to say, shout out to the Paul Revere drums by the Beastie Boys. I was going to say, Brandon. Yeah, I don't know if this was a Farrell sample outright. I mean,

they're easy to do. It's like a reverse. drum break. Yep. Here's a little story. I got to tell about three in history with that Rob C and me. My dear. It ain't no secrets. So be it. So be it. The B isn't the only thing that's top shelf here, right? Like Brandon said, the power of clips is like in the rap. And I want to look at the verses because they are technical beasts.

Listen to this one from Push a T. C-L-B. S-E-F-B. A-ball L-V. I can show you how to bust the brick if you let me. I'm on a gram like confetti, switch is ready. She leaning on Celine because she ain't stepping in Giuseppe. Catch a buck 50 like each Pirelli. I got eight of them called me and dready. If I'm not in a telly selling a Yeti, then I'm twirling your bitch like she and spaghetti. Okay, it's hard to use spaghetti in hip-hop because then you're going up against, you know, Eminem.

They have some spectacular pasta rhymes on this record. Can we listen to the song Ace Trumpets? We'd later vodka. Panama fishing village visiting with papas. All of you impasta. Simply just... We'd later get a facchia rhyme. I love what he does with Penny Olive vodka.

All of you are impostas. Yes. It's so silly. You know, gangsters love pasta. I don't know what that is about. But back to so be it, I love the... They always connect the rhyme. Like, it's never disconnected.

Yeah. It's just really top tier. Right, because the whole verse, hinges on this rhyme that he sets up in the first line when he's spelling out clips, right? Where he's like, C-L-I-P-S-E. And that rhyme carries the rest of the verse so tight. C-L-I-B, A-B-A-B-B-A-B-B-L-V. I can show you how to bust a brick if you let me.

I'm on a gram like a fetti. Switch is ready. She leaning on Celine because she ain't stepping in to step in to step-epe. Catch a buck 50 like each Pirelli. I got eight of them. Spill it out for me. CLIP ESI Rhy. Rimes with EPI. Rhymes with LV. Bust a brick if you let me.

Monogram like confetti. Svich is ready. She leaning on Celine because she ain't stepping in Giuseppe. Next line. Pirelli. Andretti, Yeti, spaghetti, heavy, Kelly, belly, and so on and so forth. Both of them do this through the entire song. And it's really a flex because over the course of time, we've seen people rap.

and we can section them off in like, these are the lyrical, miracle ones, and these are the ones that can make the party rock. Yeah. And so to have dense lines and really tight rhymes be rapable, we haven't heard it in a long time. And it's almost like they're the only ones that can do it on this level, you know? I mean, let's just check out Malice's verse.

Because, yeah, like you said, Brandon, he does the exact same thing. And his verse, Malice said on genius, is, quote, speaking to the integrity or lack thereof of of so-called competitors. You ain't solid, ain't valid, you ain't malice, being quiet, ain't right, you ain't Paris, blow money, you owe money, we ain't balanced, you ain't believed, God did, you ain't calid, all black, back to back, this ain't traffic, can't wrap your head round that, you ain't arab, y'all tweed, bird talk, we all parrots, lone star, cross the border, we like Dallas. For a man who found God, he's got a lot of fronting that he's wanted to do.

And a man in his 50s. I think he's, this is like the get off my lawn sentiment in the best flow you've ever heard in your life. Just looking at the first four lines, there's nine rhymes in there. It's, you ain't solid, ain't valid, you ain't malice, been quiet, ain't riot, you ain't Paris. Low money, you owe money, we ain't balance. You ain't believe God did. Quank, Calid. Like, it's crazy. Nasty. Wow. This is that millennial rap candy. So be it is the manifestation of three musicians, Push-a-Tee, Malice, and Farrell at the apex of their craft.

The rest of the album, Let God Sort Him Out, is similarly technical. It doesn't just talk about money and Coke, which, you know, they're famous for doing. We're going to talk about the album's opener after the break. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcast? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova, and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you.

Okay. Ready? Ready. Do not sugarcoat something for me. No. No. No. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs,

and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. Immigration may be Donald Trump's signature issue. President Trump is now targeting predominantly democratic cities for ice raids and deportations. Dozens of protesters clashing with immigration and customs enforcement agents in Minneapolis Tuesday.

We will begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to do in this space is talk about America and politics beyond the current president. So what do most Americans think about deportation and border security, period? I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ICE. When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want order at the border. They don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. The view on immigration from the bottom up instead of the top down.

That's this week on America Actually. Every Saturday in your audio and video feeds. So the first song on the clips album features John Legend and the Voices of Fire. And that's the song The Birds Don't Sing. So this is the first song on the album. And we're already coming at it hard. That's a pretty compelling line. The birds don't sing.

They screech in pain. This is the most intimate song on the whole record. So much of this record is this sort of mobster persona, the Coke rap thing, going back and doing their old stuff. But this is an ode to their deceased parents. And you can hear immense amount of pain in the performance. Yeah, and I'm going to drop some cinephile knowledge on you guys right now. Okay.

Film major. The birds don't sing, they screech in pain, is actually a paraphrased quote from German filmmaker Werner Herzog. Wait, can you do it in his voice, please? I'll do you one better and play the clip. The trees here are in misery and the birds are in misery. I don't think they sing, they just screech in pain.

Wow. A little bit of background. There's this Werner Herzog movie called Fitzgeraldo set in the Amazon, And there's a documentary about Fitzcaraldo called The Burden of Dreams. That is where that quote is from. Herzog is talking about the jungle and how cruel it is and how hard it is for things to exist in it. And when you extend the central metaphor, right, the birds don't sing, they screech in pain. It drives this song, which is about grief.

You know, it's about the death of Pusha and Malice's parents. And it connects the cold harshness. and the striking nature of the jungle to the real world lived in experience of losing a loved one. Wow. And I think it really works with the John Legend vocal. He can be someone I think of as like a great balladeer. But I actually think he's really channeling that lyric very effectively. I would not have expected him to be the first feature on a hip-hop throwback record.

Yeah. And yet I think he sells it very well. So there's two verses in this song and each brother has a verse. And Push's verse talks about his last conversations with their mother. On my way to Texas, that's when Virginia hit me. And I realized in that instant, her last conversation you was against it. Told you I was going to Turks for Thanksgiving. I heard what I wanted to hear but didn't listen.

You said you told Gene that Bup needed forgiveness. I see you went to Ditties and stuffed both her fridges. You even told Dad you wished y'all never split it. So you were checking boxes. I was checking my mention. Rhymes flying everywhere, internal rhymes, rhymes across bars, and yet it tells this really clear narrative, right, of like the moment he finds out about one of his parents passing. It's really heavy and it's really artful. Yeah, and I think it breaks the fourth wall in a way.

Like, you really feel like these lyrics are from Push's diary because there's a line in here that says, you said you told Gene. Gene is Malice's given name. By addressing Malas, who was also on this song by his birth name, it's like from the heart. And they're talking to their parents. It's just one of those things where it's like writing a song about grief is so hard to do. And also maintaining your rap persona. Like I can't even imagine it might play to their age than being like real grown men and being able to not put the persona aside, but take it along with them and tell the story. It comes with wisdom.

It comes with age to me. that they can write like that. Yeah, and they let their words do the talking, which I think shows a lot of confidence. When Malice's verse starts, it strips away everything that was added by John Legend and the choir and the orchestra and just has a simple piano riff.

The way you miss mama, I guess I should have known. Chivalry ain't dead, you ain't let her go alone. Found you in the kitchen. Scriptures in a den. Half written text that you never got to send. Come in through your dresser drawer. Where do I begin? Posting noted Bible quotes, where you preparing in?

I can hear your voice now. I can feel your presence. Asking, should I rap again? And when malice raps, I could hear your voice now. I could feel your presence. This synth comes in and kind of swallows you. It's so massive. So I think it's a really great example of production serving what they're talking about.

And I think the maximalism of the chorus, contrasted with the stark nature of these verses, is kind of giving like catharsis versus trauma. You know, the two things are at odds. And then as the cherry on top, you know, we have this beautiful outro with John Legend, leading chorus, this orchestra. We get an outro with somebody who I never thought would appear on this album, Stevie Wonder.

Remember those who lost their mothers and fathers and make sure that every single moment that you have with them, you show them love. That's who that is? That's Stevie? Yeah. Isn't that crazy? You're blind, Brandon's mine.

I was like, oh, that must be a family member. Yeah. Or they found like a clip of their mother. It's Stevie. Stevie is kind of like at this point in his life, he sort of like pop music preacher. Mm-hmm. Saw him in Madison Square Garden.

He was like, this is an opportunity to like sing together, to experience love and life together. He felt like a preacher. And here he is sort of doing one of the jobs of a preacher, which is like consoling someone through. a difficult time. Crazy. So I wanted to talk about

the birds don't sing because I feel like a lot of the conversation around clips and push a tea in particular. One of my favorite rappers of all time, like top three, solid. But part of the convo around him is that he only raps

about being rich, selling drugs, doing Coke, right? Which all over the album. And I love listening to Coke Raps, but this is a take on a different type of hip-hop song, one that immediately doesn't come to mind when you think of clips.

And the fact that the Birds Don't Sing is the first track on the album sets up this cohesive and quite masterful record. Take that, Post Malone. What did he say? He had it in line, if you're looking for introspective lyrics or songs that make you cry, don't listen to rap. Take that, buddy. Listen to rap is fun.

What else we're going to listen to today, Rihanna? Yeah, so I don't want to keep the convo to just albums. You know, if you really want to know what's happening in hip-hop right now, you got to look to the singles, right? And I'd be remiss if I kept this episode album focused because I feel like for most mainstream rappers, projects seem to come worse bearingly. So I want to play single roulette

and take a quick spin through some tracks that are popping right now. And I think the concept of an artist with a lack of timely record releases is a perfect segue to the first single we're going to look at, Cardi B's Outside. Talk about dirty dogs I'm convinced

It's time you see your mama Tell her how she raised the bitch Ha ha Talk about throwback So New York Patron St. Cardi B is back with the lead single

from her first album in Countem Seven years The album is called Am I the Drama? Question mark which has been in my vocabulary since she announced it

Always asking that question Cardi's last record famously was her debut studio album Invasion of Privacy in 2018. That, of course, was a blockbuster era-defining record with the singles Bodak Yellow. And the little bitch, you can't fuck with me If you want it to These expensive These is red bottoms These is bloody shoes

Hit the school I can get them both I don't want to choose And I'm quick Cut a nigga So don't get comfortable And the song I like it with J Balvin and Bad Bunny

Which has almost two billion streams And despite not releasing an album Since then Cardi B has still managed to dominate the culture with singles like WAP, of course, with Megan the Stalian, which came out in 2020. So both WAPE and Up, that's some wet ass, pussy.

And I mentioned both of them because here's the funny part, both of those singles are going to be on Cardi's new album. Stop it. Wow. Oh, so she's going to have a top 200 album no matter what by including those old singles. I think it's pretty funny that four and five years later these songs are going to be on a brand new record. You know, they haven't had a record before, so I guess this is their chance to shine again.

Ridiculous. What a strategy. It's definitely like an out-of-pocket move, you know. It's very streaming era core. Biggest album of the year already and it's not even released. Yeah, crazy. Speculating. But at the same time, the thing about outside is that it's not hard to see how it fits next to these two previous songs.

You know, it sounds pretty similar to what she has already done. So let's give the hook of Outside another listen. It's just the song Up in a different font. You know, the way that she pushes out the word out, like the way she sings it. It's out and it's up and it's up. Exactly. It's the same thing. Yo, mash it up.

My first reaction, of course, was that outside is also such a throwback track because that line is the Trigger Man beat, like the foundational beat to all of New Orleans bounce music. The Trigger Man. Sampleong, black and yellow, lots of other hits. To be from New York, those two songs in particular sound very, very New Orleans influence. They really do. Because it's fun music. I mean, you know. It is fun music.

Not even to knock her, right? It's like that is the dance music in strip clubs around the world. And so like it serves to the brand to make that music. It's fun. And I enjoy it. I'm a big Cardi B fan. You know, I don't know what they call them, bar-denators. But as we wait to find out in September, if Cardi B is in fact the drama,

I'd like to pivot to a duo of female rappers who have emerged recently in the year since Cardi's last record. And this is a song that I've heard everywhere this summer, the track Wim WAMmy by Pluto and YK. Neese. Just proving that hip hop is having fun. Exactly. You heard it, right? It was like a little edit. Oh yeah, yeah. I was like, you would have put that in a note for me, Charlie, like to cut that out. Yeah, we don't accept that on the podcast, but it's also a way of like proving your authenticity. This sounds like it was just like chopped up at home. It's a way of saying this is real. Whim Whammy is a fun song, you know, I think it's like the anthem of being outside this summer, but it's also definitely strange, right? Like, it's low-fi and weirdly mixed.

Like, it seems like it's designed to be blasted out of speakers on the street, which like... Bad speakers on the street. Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, driving past. We're talking like an old boombox from the 90 that recovered from the ghost of a radio shack. Right. I was going to say, like, speakers in the back of a Nissan Ultima. Yes.

Definitely Nissan Ultima crack speaker in the back as soon as the kick comes in. Yeah, it's crazy. The bass is just going to go, in spite of or because of these quirks possibly, like I love this song. There's such a charm to it. And the lyrics have an extremely singable vibe. You know, they get lodged in your head. Like, I think every listener after this episode will be walking around their house going whim whammy.

Like, it's so, it's so catchy. She says let the Draco sing Da da da da da da I was like I didn't know the Draco sang like that My favorite is when she sings Lululemon You know like really putting that Spon con in the song

But perhaps aspirational Sponcon The whole group said Lulmin Yeah everybody was in on it I like the coining of the phrase Whim Whammy There's been a debate recently where the term comes from, you know, Mook B of D4L has come out and been like, I made a song called Wim Wham, Your Jack and My Swag.

So, you know, it could be D4L origins, but Wim WAMI, it rolls off the tongue. It could be a dance. I think it's funny because, like, famously, from Pressure Luck, you don't want whammies. But this is the opposite. Like, you want the whammy? I don't know.

But when I heard in the beginning of the song, I heard Zaytoven's tag. Zaytoven produced Wimmy. Whammy. Biggest producer of Atlanta trap music. I mean, a quick rundown of Zay Tovin Beats Versace by the Nigos, Icy by Gucci Man. And just one of my personal favorites, make the trap say A by OJ the Juice Man, which might have been the inspiration for whimwame. I feel like this is yet another great throwback track.

Clips is showing us one way to look backwards is flow excellence, right? just being the best rappers on the planet. Another way of looking backwards is the origins of hip-hop, like super lo-fi, made with budget gear. It reminds you of stuff like Roxanne's Revenge by Roxanne Chanty, where it's just like it's loose, it sounds not professional intentionally, and in that way it sounds fun and real. So before we close out, I have one more track,

and I think I'm state mandated to include it because we have to mention Drake in any hip hop convo in 2025, unfortunately. Oh, he wants to be? Yeah, he has two new singles out. But the good thing is, the most recent one of his, I quite enjoy, frankly, and that's the song, Which One, featuring Central C.

Yeah, all the girls that's here for the shoot come put two hands on a DJ boot, then whine your ways, but a real good dude, then you want Central your ex, which one? You want friends of success, which one? What do you do when you lose the biggest rap battle in history? You just go back to the thing you're really good at, copying dance floor hits, putting on a not very good Jamaican accent. Exactly. The reason why I find this song compelling is that I feel like much of the discourse, both in and outside of the Drake-Kendrick beef, has been, Drake needs to go back to making fun music. But I agree. It seems like Drake has taken.

notes, you know, he's internalized those criticisms. I mean, we had Nokia earlier this year, which is one of my favorite songs of the year so far, and Drake's having fun. We're getting Summer Drake on which one, peak Drake era. Drake dabbles in a little cultural appropriation here and there. In Summer 16, we got Jamaican Drake. Not for nothing, those songs were pretty good, you know, when he was dabbling in the patois and the Afro beats, songs like too good. And that same year, I'm way too good to you. You take my love for granted. I just don't understand.

And that same year, he featured on the instant summer classic work by Rihanna. So nearly a decade later, he's literally a decade later, he's literally just friends. referencing his past. I mean, how do you feel about the fact that this new song literally lifts the chorus of work? You need to throw that thing in the reverse. Then work, work, work, work, work. Yeah, work, work, work, work. Your last man broke your heart and it hurts.

You could cry out. Yeah. I love a self-reference. Yeah. I think it's a reminder. They're like, hey, I'm Drake. Remember I made all these hits? Exactly.

I mean, it's like cheeky. This is where he fits. You know, he's in the pocket on this. There is like a fun cross here between like the UK style of rap on this Jamaican or Caribbean style beat like it fits. 360 my head got spun junk in a trunk can see it from front got your body is tea it's pain I'm sprung your backside weighing you down one ton I got a chopstick for your one ton tell me what you want where you really really want put coin in a slot you just hit jackpot

We have entered the era where people can say anything and get away with it and ascend to the highest office And it seems that music is moving in the way of the rest of culture. So maybe going back to his dance hall days before getting called out for cultural appropriation is really going to work for Drake this time. I think so. I think it'll create balance in the universe. Speaking of balance, I mean, what is going on, Rihanna? Like, this seems to be the summer of looking backwards, right? Like, there had been all of this conversation about hip hop at 50 in this major moment of

looking inward, will it continue, or will it go in the way of so many other essential black genres, rock and roll, jazz, things that eventually fade into, outside of the commercial realm? And it seems like looking back to the 2000s in hip-hop, maybe working hasn't generated any big hits. It is fun, though. And I think that's the core word that I want to focus on, right? Like, fun. Because I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, there's no hip-hop in the top 10 on the Billboard Hot. 100. And I think largely, the conversation around the charts has been that the songs that are big in

the country right now are pretty dower. They're down tempo. They're not fun. Like, I don't want to throw that shit on at a party. You know, I don't want to throw that shit on at the beach. No, we literally call that episode Summer Bummer. Exactly. And I think what I want to show with these songs, you know, save the birds don't sing by clips. Yeah. These songs are fun. You know, they're exciting. I want to hear them when I go outside. You know, we're in the middle of August. I feel like we need something. to galvanize the people to dance. And I've been hearing all these songs on the radio, out of cars. And I think from this selection of music, we could gather that hip hop is feeling fun right now.

It's feeling exciting. The hot temperatures are getting to us. And I think we just got to dance. Agreed. Let's hear it for some late summer bounce. Rihanna, you caught my ear when you talked about the two billion plays of Cardi B. You might recall that we've been playing bingo. in the background all year long.

We made all these predictions about things that would happen in 2025. One of these bingo cards has been flipped over. Is that how bingo works? I don't know. Blotted. It's been blotted. Blotted bingo. Be Billions Club, which is a playlist on Spotify, keeps track of how many songs have surpassed a billion streams. I had predicted that we would have more than a thousand people in the billions club.

And we now have about 1,014. If I'm right, I believe the song, Rewrite the Stars by Zach Efron and Zendaya, was the thousandth song to cross into the Billions Club. And so if you're playing along, you can blot out your Billions Club Square on your bingo card. If you've won bingo, let us know. There are so many other predictions that we haven't talked about.

If you don't have a bingo card, you can still get one from our newsletter. You sign up at switchdumphop.com or in our show notes, and you can get your own little bingo card. Switched on Pop was produced by Rianna Cruz, engineered and co-hosted with Engineer Brand McFarlane. Eam-Bibbibu-Beele. Editing by Art Chung, illustrations by Iris Gottlieb, theme music by Jossi Adams and Zach Tenario of Arc Iris. Remember with the Vox Media Podcast Network production of Vulture, which is part of New York Magazine.

You can subscribe at NYMag.com slash pod. You can find us anywhere on social media at Switched On Pop and our website, Switchedonpop.com, where you can do many things, including signing up. for our newsletter. We'll be back again with a new episode on Tuesday, and until then, thanks for listening. Whimwammy! Attention Spotify! Has arrived on the new Good Girl Jasmine Absolute

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