Switched on Pop - American Oxygen

Episode Date: March 23, 2016

How do you collaborate with five people to write a song that captures that national temperature? The stakes may seem high with stars like Alex Da Kid, Candice Pillay, Kanye West and Rihanna, but Sam Harris from X Ambassadors has unlocked the secret. Having penned much of Rihanna's hit American Oxygen, Sam gives an honest account of his process to create a hit and capture the American Dream. And we also get an exclusive peak at X Ambassador's version of the song. Featuring X Ambassadors - Renegades Rihanna - American Oxygen Bruce Springsteen - Born In The U.S.A. Radiohead - Pyramid Song X Ambassadors - American Oxygen You can download X Ambassador's newly released version of American Oxygen from Interscope Records and KIDinaKORNER on iTunes: http://smarturl.it/AmericanOxygenXA  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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app at eater app.com. It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switched on Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. Today we get to go inside the mind of a great songwriter and learn what it takes to collaborate with four other writers and producers to create a hit that is challenging yet successful and captures the national sentiment in a single line. I'm really lucky to be joined by Sam Harris from the band X Ambassadors whose hit Renegades from their album VHS top the charts last year. He's also the the songwriter on Rihanna's American Oxygen, which he co-wrote with Rihanna, Candace Palley, and Alex the kid, who also produced the track along with Kanye West. Sam was in the middle of a recording session in New York City when I spoke with him, so you might hear some sirens

in the background later on. But first, let's take a listen to American oxygen. The skeleton of the song started out with, the breed out, breathing American oxygen, and that was pretty much it. And that's the first and the last time I'm going to sing on a podcast. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Yeah. So I just recorded that, sent it to Alex, and he immediately called me and he was like, I think

this could be really big. Yeah. And so we kept working on it and working on. I knew he was in the studio with her. We're on tour and then we're off tour and I'm working on it. We're on tour. I'm working on it. Finish this chorus six months later.

Can you say a little bit about what it takes during that period of time of what kind of things you're working on to perfect that down to its essence? God. I mean, just like everything. From coming up with gibberish words with just different melody options, I mean, it's just a lot of like banging your head against the wall and trying to come and just coming up with a million different lyrics and words and melodies shooting 99.9% of them down. And I spent many hours pulling my what's left in my hair out, you know, and just like feeling so downtrown. and like I was never going to finish this thing. And I couldn't get the message right.

I wanted it to be succinct. I wanted the message to get across no matter who was listening to it. And the first time you heard it. What happens next? So that was when he brought it to her and she really loved that chorus so much. And Alex and Rihanna had been speaking about thematically where they wanted to take the song. And both of them are immigrants. their first generation.

Alex came over from the UK and she came from Barbados and they really embody what the stereotypical American dream is. They started with nothing and they built themselves into these... Empires. Yeah, yeah, they really did.

They built those empires themselves and from nothing. I was kind of the vessel for that idea, putting words to that. I read somewhere that you said that it was inspired by sort of the themes and Bruce Springsteen's born in the USA. And obviously they are super different sounding.

But I'm curious, what are some of the themes in common with the Springsteen song? I wanted to write a song that really characterized our country the way that I saw it. You know, take Born in the USA, for instance. You know, you take that chorus on its own, and it's kind of like a patriotic go-America anthem. And it's been used as such. you know, many times, you know, much to the chagrin of Bruce Springsteen himself. Right, right. Yeah, lots of politicians have tried to co-op the song.

Yeah, yeah, you know, like, I think Ronald Reagan tried to use it in his campaign, and there was like a big... But we actually did a whole piece on campaign walk-on songs, and basically every GOP candidate has tried to use this song more or less for the last 20 years. Yeah, yeah. And Bruce keeps coming back and he's like, guys, you're just not getting the message. Yeah, because that's not what it's about. It's about a soldier coming back from war

in the country that kind of just like turns his back on him. And that's partially the beauty of the song, you know, that like we're still proud of this place where we come from. But, you know, there are a lot of problems and we've got a lot of issues. So you're tackling similar themes here

with American oxygen? Trying to, you know, I'm doing my best, man. Listen, I'm no Bruce Springsteen, but it was a very important song for me, there are a lot of problems with this country, but it also has the potential to be something really great. And it also is, you know, the land of opportunity for a lot of people. And, you know, there's a reason why people, you know, abandon their lives from different countries all over the world and risk everything to come here. Okay, so you start this song with just a nugget of an idea,

just the chorus that you're working on with Alex. And then you start collaborating with Rihanna and all these other great folks. So where did this all go down? This was all done behind closed doors. And Alex would come back to me and was like, okay, this is kind of where we wanted to go. And I would write a version of it. Give it to him. He'd bring it to her.

And she would give her notes. And I guess, I guess Kanye had heard it too. And he would give his notes. And then he would. It's incredibly collaborative. You have one sort of giant mind meld. Yeah, yeah. And then Alex.

Alex, bring it back to me with the notes, and I'd be like, okay, all right, and I'd fix these words here and there. And when you say that he's bringing you back this stuff, I'm assuming you're not in person. Oh, none of this was in person. I was only with Alex. So I still have yet to meet her or Kanye. That's amazing. I don't think most people recognize that that's how songs are made today. Yeah, that's how a lot of it's done, man. A lot of it is done like that. It's a brilliant thing. I mean, when could you all get in the same room together, way. It's probably the only way you could possibly all collaborate. I know. And like, you

know, it also gives me the space to just like try whatever and, you know, grind it out, man. I got to get through all, I got to wade through all the bad stuff before I get to anything that's, you know, has any semblance of being good.

So you're, you're top lining, throwing out gibberish, trying a thousand different melodies and you're trying to distill it down to, as you said, that essence, you get it the first time you hear it. How did you know that you had it when it was there? I didn't. I had no idea. But, you know, what was great is that I had a, I had a bouncing board. I, you know, I had Alex. So I would, I would just be, I was floundering and I'd come up with something.

I'd come up with this. Breathe out. Come up with that. Breathing. Come up with this, coming over that. Breathe out. Breathe out. And eventually I'd come up with something. American arts to know And he'd be like that I love that melody That melody's sick I was like oh

Okay In like in my haze And then I would And then I would put lyrics to it So Alex is sort of making the call Of putting everything together And finally saying This is the final composition

Yeah and I love that Because honestly you know It allows me to take my ego out of it A little bit more And just focus on the song And what the song needs That's his job as a producer You know

That's his role as producer is to be there to be the filter. You know, I consider myself just, you know, a vessel trying to, you know, channel whatever, you know, weird stuff I can come up with. It's much easier for me to operate like that, actually. And so, and then Rihanna records the single, and it does incredibly well. Yeah, you know, I guess so. I like to not really keep too much track of how, like, how well these things all, do. Even with Renegades, you know, with our single, I kind of try to just ignore the numbers and

like the charts and all that stuff because it's so fleeting and so, you know, you just can't ever. Numbers aren't so useful for songwriting and creativity. Yeah, not so useful for creativity. Which is amazing because this song is both, I think, lyrically and musically challenging, and yet it was a, you know, it hit the charts and did really well. And which is, it's so exciting to see that there's room for more challenging topics and themes on the billboard. It was a very bold move for her to write a political song because that's not what people, you know, like, want to hear from Rihanna. Yeah, they want dance hall tracks.

She'll do whatever she wants. And that's exactly, you know, what artistic integrity is all about. And she is the epitome of that. In some ways, the song makes me wonder about the health of the air that we're breathing. Right. And I feel like that is mimicked really beautifully in the production of this natural. acoustic piano, which opens the piece, and then is distorted by this warbly bass synth line and heavy drums.

Yeah. Let me say a little bit about that duality and what that means for you and how it ties into the lyrics? Well, I mean, it definitely was a guideline for where the song was going to go because it has you're right. You know, there's what I love about a lot of what Alex does is that he incorporates these very organic, familiar elements with something that is so foreign and kind of weird. And so there's this ominous quality to something that's so beautiful, almost like a little

bit of like a, it almost kind of makes you uncomfortable listening to it. But you can't help but keep listening. That hook is pulling you back in. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's part of what, you know, this country is like, you know. there's something about it that keeps the world kind of fascinated with it as weird and duplicitous. And there's also something so pure and beautiful about it. Maybe it's because it's such a young country full of opportunity and hope.

I feel like the piano line maps really well to that idea of opportunity, openness, and hope. I mean, the core changes are really. interesting. They're not your typical four-core changes. Yeah, not one-four-five. It kind of reminds me. When I first heard it, I was like reminded of this song by Radiohead off of Amnesiac called Pyramid Song, which is one of my favorite, favorite radio. One of my favorite songs as well. There's something about it that sounds, when you first

hear it, you think it sounds familiar. You think you know where it's going to go rhythmically, but it's like in this crazy time signature. And I mean, these chord changes are still in 4-4, but he's hitting them in a different way. I feel like it opens up and doesn't give you the information you need to know what meter we're in. Yeah. You got like a one, two, three, pause. And then this big bass note comes in, the low end of the piano. And you're still like, wait, where am I? And none of those chords are typical chords. There are these suspended chords. and things that aren't giving you a lot of harmonic context. Yeah, again, the suspension, I think, is a big part of what gives it that ominous quality.

And you're kind of in your mind searching for that note that would make it whole and would make it robust and familiar. But it's not going to give you that. It's only going to hint at it. And that's just in the first phrase. I mean, in the second phrase, you think, well, maybe I'll get some resolution. And, well, what happens? No, it doesn't.

It doesn't resolve. You know, it leaves you kind of hanging. It's that anticipation that that kind of drives throughout the whole rest of the song. Yeah, in that second phrase, it actually repeats the three same chords that open up the first phrase, but then plays them with a different baseline. And so giving you a different harmonic context. So again, it's sort of just continuing to deceive you. Yep.

And then the final chord is not the home key. No. It lands on this sort of open G chord. You're like, where am I? And then it just repeats. And again, that speaks to the brilliance of Alex in his production.

You know, he's trying to really incorporate these advanced and very left-of-center productions and put them in a top context, you know. That's the hardest part. Yeah, but that's where you come up with a new genre, and you come up with something that is that no one's ever heard before. And that's, that, you know, pushes the wheel further along.

If we're already challenged by what is the sort of more naturalistic and pure piano chords, were, I think, thrown off even more when the drum and synth production comes in. Can you say what's going on when we first hear those drums and synths? I mean, it's just like this triplet, like the drums don't even really give you anything. It's just this powerful 808 kick that's the foundation there. You know, like you got a little bit of a snare on the two and four. But that's pretty much all you get. And then that powerful 808 comes in like every other bar.

Yeah. I mean, to put it bluntly, it's not a very American sound. It's a very worldly kind of sound. And I think incorporating that with something, you know, like this strong piano that is so familiar and that we've heard in so many pop songs, that also kind of adds another, whole other layer to it. Yeah, so we are given things which are both familiar and foreign at the same time, with the piano, we're not getting any clear, chordal, typical, progression. We're not getting any resolution, but it is sort of natural and clean. And then the drums come in and it gives us a little bit of meter. It gives us a downbeat and a two and a four on the snare. So we're like, okay, this is somewhat familiar. But again, the drum production is also really strange, distorted and wobbled. So this is constant push and pull kind of like a breath, right, of breathing in and out and letting go, breathing in. But not really sure what it is. We're necessarily breathing in and out. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, that's me waxing a lot of more.

I love it. No, I love it. You know, and that's the beauty of music, man. You know, it's like the creators just kind of make it. And it's really great when it can be, you know, up for interpretation in so many different ways. And, you know, you're seeing things in it that I wouldn't have even thought of. Attention, Spotify. Has arrived on the new Google Jasmine Absolute of Carolina Herrera.

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has open to so many interpretations and maybe I'll just throw out one of them. Rihanna sings this

beautiful line, the New America line over and over. And... This is another. I feel like where the production and the piano work leaves us wanting and a little loss and confused, the repeating of this is the New America, the firmness of that line, along with the chorus is sort of that is that groundedness.

That is that hope in America is held down by the vocal. Yeah. I think it's a beautiful juxtaposition. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. You know, that was the last piece of the puzzle there, that bridge. That was literally the last thing we wrote. Yeah.

It has this kind of like flighty. quality to it. I'm curious, what is the new America to you? Hopefully an America without Donald Trump is our president. Okay, good. No, no. Well, within the context of the song,

you know, this America is we've moved past a lot of injustices, but there are so many that still are around and we are more vocal about it now than ever before.

and more aware of it now. And I think a lot of walls and barriers are being broken down every day. Our children are growing up in a world where, you know, they're used to seeing differences and learning that those differences are strengths in each other. In a Billboard interview you did, you said you have your own version of the song. I'm wondering how does that sound different? How do you play it? It's rather than a piano being the foundation of it, it's an acoustic guitar, finger-picked and strummed.

Yeah. And it's a little more of like a kind of like an American dream. an Americana version of it, but drum-wise still got this it's got a little bit of more of a shuffle to it, but also has these glitchy electronic elements. We still maintain some of that

juxtaposition of familiar sounds and instruments and something that's like kind of folkier. It's a little bit folkier. And so this song has been great for Rihanna. I hope it's been great for you. And I'm wondering what's going on with ex-ambassadors now? What are you working on and what can we look forward to hearing?

Well, we're going to start working on our next record pretty soon. But we never really stopped writing after we finished, you know, after we put out as soon as we put out VHS, you know, we were already working on stuff that after we had finalized

the track listing and sent everything off. But, you know, songwriting is a muscle that you have to just keep working or else, you know, you lose it. I write every day. And, uh, you know, if I can't, if I can't spend like six hours of writing stuff, I'll at least be able to get like two hours of writing and writing in. And if I'm not even able to get like two hours of writing and recording in, I'll just journal, you know, but just writing and writing. Um, because you can't stop. I can't stop, even if I wanted to. You know, everyone always wonders, what is, what does it

take to write good good stuff and it always comes down to just that well you do it every day and a lot of it yeah man because you got to write i mean you got to write a hundred really terrible songs where you come up with one song that's okay and that's and then that song is only okay so you got to write a hundred more until you find one that's better than okay that's good and then you got to write a hundred more to write something that's great you know that's really what it comes down to you're an incredible spokesperson for the band X Ambassadors and for the song American Oxygen.

So happy to have you on the show and cannot wait to hear more stuff coming out of that genius songwriting brain of yours. Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate that. The X Ambassador's newly released version of American Oxygen on Interscope Records and Kid in a Corner can be heard on iTunes now, and we'll

post a link to it on our website. This episode of Switched On Pop was produced by me, Charlie Harding, and I want to say thank you to Kirsten Stubbs and Vanessa Patinsky from Interscope Records, and Adam Samuels from this fiction for helping me put this piece together. Luke Harris designed our logo,

and I want to welcome new members to our team. Thank you, Susan, Pergo, and Michael, who will be helping on the show. You can find more episodes on our website, switchedonpop.com, and if you really need to scratch that music itch, you can tweet at us at Switched on Pop. We'll be back in two weeks with a new episode,

and until then, thanks for listening. You can find more episodes on our website, switchedonpop.com, and if you really need to scratch that music, Thank you.