Switched on Pop - Benee and the Art of the Sad Banger 

Episode Date: August 26, 2020

How does it feel to become a global pop star under lockdown? Benee’s “Supalonely” had been out for over 5 months when in March of 2020, it quickly became the second most popular song on TikTok. The song’s hook “I’ve been lonely… Supalonely” clearly reflected a global collective malaise about the pandemic—and people wanted to dance to it. She wrote this “sad banger” to help get over a breakup. And now the song changed her life. Not along before she’d dropped out of college to make music while working at a pizza place. Her first EP had found an audience in her home country, New Zealand. Now, with her TikTok success Benee has ascended the top 100 in 30 countries. All of this happened from the solitude of her childhood bedroom, where like so many people, she’s taking zoom calls all day. She tells Switched On Pop about using levity to overcome personal difficulty and what’s like to achieve global recognition from home. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switched on Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. When I first heard the song, super lonely, I was probably scrolling through TikTok, trying to forget everything in the world. And then I heard it again. And again. And again. After hearing it many times, the song's hook resonated with me and seemingly the rest of the world as well because we've all felt super lonely at times during the pandemic.

And that shared emotion has led to great success for Super Lonely, which has moved from TikTok to the Billboard charts and has made a star out of the 20-year-old artist behind the song. I wanted to talk with her about how it came to be, what it was like to find success in an industry that was locked down. and how she's connecting with her global audience while touring is nearly impossible. So I'm excited to introduce you to one of my favorite new artists. Hello, my name is Benny, and I am a musician from New Zealand. You can hear in her voice that Benny is really fun to chat with, but her song Super Lonely was actually born out of heartbreak.

So I have been dating this guy, and it's August. I decide I'm, I break up with him, and I'm going to LA for a month. I was at the airport and I'm leaving with just my manager. My mom is going to come after a week of being there because I need her for my emotional support, like human animal. I just accepted that I was going to be sad for a majority of the trip. I just want to cry in my room alone.

But Benny can't just stay in her room. Her label has set up a month of songwriting sessions that will go towards her next EP called Stella and Steve. so Benny has to get to work and get ready for her first session. I was like kind of nervous to be going to a session. We went to the studio called The Tree House, and it's the first session that I'm in, and I'm working with my producer Josh Fountain

and my friend called Jenna Andrews. She was like an hour late, and I was like, I was nervous. She's nervous because she's about to have a co-writer, and this could go a million ways. Jenna could walk in and take over and write. her whole song for her. There's a history full of producers stepping on songwriter's feet. She doesn't want to

end up like the monkeys who had limited studio time and then had to fight for the right to put their own music out under their own name. Very silly name. Yeah, so this is her first big session and it could set the precedent for things to follow. But then her co-writer Jenna walks in and says, Hey girl! And it was just like, hey.

And it was just like this huge catch-up session from the start she said, like, I'm not here to write your song for you. like we're going to talk about it and we're going to bounce ideas of each other and I was just like okay cool like this is not so scary like I trust that she's going to help she's not going to like get in my face and I think that we worked really well together because we kind of laid out what we were comfortable with at the start and and talked about it sometimes it just takes an open ear to help process where we're at and turn our woes into something creative I didn't actually start

writing like until like an hour in because we were literally just like talking about our lives and I was telling her that I had just broken up with my boyfriend and then telling her exactly where I was at and she was just relating to everything, which was really nice. And I think that I needed like someone like a kind of a female figure like that at that point because I was pretty alone in LA where everything is quite like unfamiliar to me. Everything she's going through is setting Benny up to write a real tearjerker.

You know, like Adele level sad. I'm just thinking like, right, I'm going to use this to, you know, to help me. It's going to be like a retreat thing. And I feel like that's usually what happens when I am sad or whatever kind of emotions I'm feeling. I always want to put that into a song and write about it. So Benny, Jenna, and Josh start writing the first song of the trip.

They will end up being Benny's most successful song yet. And I think in part it's because of the raw emotions that she's channeling. I'm going to write as like a super self-deprecating song. And I'm going to swear on it and say that I fucked up and I'm a loser. I know I fucked up. I'm just a loser. I really was like, people are going to hate this song. But I'm having a lot of fun writing it, so I don't actually care.

Then I write a song. And it ends up being a kind of happy song. I've been lonely. She writes a happy song with sad lyrics. She even has a term for that. I want like a sad kind of banger. And I just write this song. where I'm super self-deprecating, and I'm just poking fun of myself for being upset because

I don't like feeling sorry for myself. I've never heard the word super lonely. How does this come to you? That was an ad lib that I made up when I was in the booth. I was just kind of like we had laid down the verses in the chorus and everything, and I was like, right, I'm going to go in there and I'm going to like, I want to scream and I want to swear. and Josh, my producer was like, okay, cool, and I went in there, and I just kind of, I don't know, I just kind of repeated it. I'm a lonely bitch, super lonely.

Just kind of made up a bunch of things that came to me at that time. How does it feel that something that you just completely ad-libbed ends up forming your career? Dude, I don't even know. I mean, I think that's the way that I've been working recently with most of my work, and it's kind of just, Crazy wouldn't people like that kind of stuff because I'm like, oh, shoot, cool. Cool. Cool. What's great about this line is that it just occurs to her. It's what feels most true what's on the top of her head.

It's not poetic or flowery. It's just what she's feeling. And the goofy vulnerability in which she coins that term is, I think it's what connects with so many people. I feel like you can understand who I am, just listening to it. Like, I feel like people know me after listening to it, you know?

Did this song help you get through that breakup? I don't know. I'm like, I don't know. Because honestly, I'm still like, I still haven't like fully like moved on from it. So I'm kind of like, nah, not really. Just to be clear,

the song has been played almost 400 million times on Spotify alone and it didn't help her get over her breakup. That's why breakups suck so much. This is everything you need to know about a breakup. have 20,000 people and their dogs dance to your song on TikTok, and you still knock it over it. I mean, I feel like healing after breakups is just like a key. I can say that it helped, but I also feel like I'm still waiting, still freaking waiting to get up with this person.

But yeah. Okay, so Super Lonely didn't work for Benny, but it did work for so many other people. They love this sad banger And I wanted to know How she came up with it So I asked Benny to break down the sounds, lyrics and feelings of Super Lonely I started the session by saying

That I really wanted to make it like a melancholic But also kind of like a beachy sound And I think that that was definitely where the guitar Strumming kind of came in I feel like the New Zealand sound is very It's pretty like beachy and like summery For a lot of artists But it's also like kind of sad

I kind of just was speaking to Josh and being like, okay, I want it to be like upbeat and fun. And then I can write some real sad stuff. And so I think that's when he kind of, the percussion and all of that is kind of like, you're stroll in the park. It's like kind of light and it's, I don't know, it's happy. I feel like the bass is like one of my favorite parts of the song. I think Josh played the bass. And I feel like he just does such a good job of kind of making it like,

I don't know, it's kind of like animated or like. It reminds you of like a cartoon or something. And I feel like that kind of carries the whole song in this weird kind of funky way. And then I start singing. And then you have my vocals over the top and me swearing and stuff. And I don't know why.

I just wanted to come in strong and hard and be like, yeah. This is the real tea. This is the fun. But yeah, I always think, like starting with a chorus is always, I always like to start with a chorus. I think it's quite fun. And it's like, here I am, this is me.

Now I'm in the bathtub crying, think I'm slowly sinking, bubbles in my eyes now, maybe I'm just dreaming. In the verses, I specifically asked Josh to put, like, a ton of autotune on my voice. Because I love that sound. Like, I was listening to, like, a bunch of, like, Travis Scott kind of stuff. At that point, and, like, at that point in, like, Even James Blake has used a ton of auto-tune and stuff in his songs. As lonely as you feel right, where is my beautiful life? I want to do it in that kind of style where it's kind of almost like spoken,

kind of wordy, like singing, like rapy vibes. Yeah, I mean, this was when I was kind of getting into the, like, this is the sad stuff, the statue is happening. Water is pulling down from the ceiling. I mean, this would happen and this is me just kind of, I don't know, just like, this is how I was feeling. like that you kind of have like this like weight on you I think when you're upset and you kind of feel like the world is like against you and you're kind of just like I don't know just like super super sad girl at this point I think the auto tune kind of covers the fact that that it's actually kind of sad stuff does it the auto tune make it feel safer to say for you definitely yeah I think I think even the beat like I was like I don't think I would write this kind of stuff if I was if it was like a really slow beat but then I did do a sad version of the song.

So. The lonely version. Yeah. The lonely version. Exactly. All of my friend, though is heaven. You're about. I think my favorite moment from the song is the tiny little second just between the pre-chorus

and the chorus when you say, Ah! That one. That one. Yeah. But it doesn't sound like that. It's like, ah. Yeah.

That was fun. We were all laughing, like, in the studio, which felt good. It's kind of when you realize that you can literally do anything when you're making a song. You kind of just get in there and you're like, fuck it. I'm going to scream. Turn down the speakers. It's going to be loud.

Yeah, that's probably one of my favorite parts as well. I think, I think lorically I was just kind of just being really mean to myself. But then also being like, I am actually sad. By the way, I'm in this big world, it's a mad world. I was definitely kind of referring to LA and how I felt when I was there because it felt very massive and I was very little

and I was kind of like, uh, start crying, no. All right, I think what stands out like for me now listen to it is like the ooze and the ad libs, I think. I tried to make it sound really like pretty and like cutesy with their

and then I mean the adverbs are just like It was me just letting it all out And like venting I always try to like figure out like lyrics and stuff For like a post course But I think in this one I just kind of like I'm just going la la la la la because it's la la la la

I feel like sometimes when you're like sad That's kind of like the vibe It's like la it off Yeah and then it blends in with lonely so nicely Exactly there we go Thank you I always feel ridiculous when I'm asked to like speak about like deeper meanings in the song and like I did a genius video

on it and I was like oh people like I think I'm so dumb because it's not a super deep song and I don't think that I don't think that when I was writing it I was like really thinking about it like overthinking anything and I think that it's kind of just like throw away like you know things I will say I would say to like my best friend when I'm sad like taking the piss out of myself I think it's a good think that Benny didn't overthink this one, because it might not have ended up being the biggest song of her career. Yet, the path that it took to get there wasn't so clear. The song came out on her album, Stella and Steve in November of 2019 in New Zealand. It had some success in New Zealand and Australia. And yet it wasn't until March 2020, just as the pandemic is

taking off, that it becomes a smash overnight success on TikTok. I talk with Benny about how that went down right after the break. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness.

I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay. Ready? Ready. Do not sugarcoat something for me. No, no. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being unapologetic in their pursuits.

I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. Immigration may be Donald Trump's signature issue. President Trump is now targeting predominantly Democratic cities for ICE raids and deportations. Dozens of protesters clashing with immigration and customs enforcement agents in Minneapolis Tuesday. We will begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to do in this space is talk about America and politics beyond the current president.

So what do most Americans think about deportation and border security, period? I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ice. When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want border at the border. They don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. The view on immigration from the bottom up, instead of the top down. That's this week on America Actually. Every Saturday in your audio and video feeds. The path to super lonely was not so straightforward. Just a few years before Ben, any's breakout global success with the song.

She'd been working on music on the side while flipping pizzas and just starting out university. Just two weeks into school, she has an emotional epiphany. I came home after like the Friday of this. I think it was the Friday. Yeah, it was the Friday. Or maybe it was a Thursday of the second week. And I came home and I just like started crying on my beard and I was just like, Mom, like,

like, Mom, you come here. And I was like, I don't think I want to be doing this right now. Like, I don't think that I want to be here. Like, I want to do music. And I was just breaking down. Little court life crisis. And then, I mean, she was, like, fully supportive. I mean, she would be fully supportive of whatever I would want to do.

But she was kind of just like, you can go back if you feel like you want to go back. But, you know, if it doesn't feel good, you can make pieces and you can work on music. Like, you've got stuff to do still. So she told me to do whatever. and I dropped out. To make pizza and make music. Yep, exactly. It was great.

Benny connects with her producer, Josh Fountain. They make some songs that start to do well in New Zealand and Australia. She puts out her first EP, Fire on Mars in June 2019, and things are going pretty well on the home turf. She even follows that up with a second EP, Stella and Steve, just six months later, which features our song, Super Lonely, as the third single.

The song has been out in the song, public for five months when all of a sudden. I am getting sent a bunch of these like videos on Instagram and I'm like, what is, what is this stuff and what is this TikTok thing? And I got the app and I was like, oh shoot. Like this is what is happening. The song is trending on TikTok and seemingly everyone is reproducing videos with super lonely as the backing track.

When I had people reaching out to me from Mexico, I was like, okay, this is insane. Yeah, this is like Lil Nas X. This is like, that's what someone told me. This is like, what happened to Lil Nas X? And I was like, oh, that's insane. It was the second biggest song of the month. Yeah, that's insane. Of all of TikTok.

I mean, only Savage was played more than super lonely. Dude. So your song ends up being the second most popular. song on TikTok that month. It goes all over the world from there. Go back to March 2020. What is this supposed to do for you? I kind of tell my manager not to tell me too much stuff like, you know, like it's going to make you a star. Like I hate, I hate like that kind of talk. So I feel like, I feel like most of that kind of stuff he doesn't like, he doesn't kind of speak to me about because I, I don't like it. It freaks me out, you know? It must be strange that the greatest

success of your career is happening in one of the, you know, worst times for the world. And typically when someone has this kind of moment, you're like going on press tours, getting on airplanes, going all around the world. Where are you? What are you doing? I am in lockdown in New Zealand and I'm doing Zoom calls every day in my room. It's weird because there's like all of this like really like horrible stuff going on in the world and you're kind of like, Like I don't feel good about any of this and obviously we're in lockdown and it's like and then I have this like song

that is like pushing my everything and I'm kind of just like I'm kind of happy but I'm also like sad and I also feel like guilty for feeling like good but yeah I don't know very weird times and a very weird like a very weird year and a weird year for like my music to be

getting you know this kind of I don't know response but it's been crazy and it's been good, but it's also been weird. What do people say to you that this song is done for them in this time? I think a lot of them kind of reach out and just say that it's, you know, it's kind of made them happy and like kind of positive about about being lonely, which is nice. And I feel like, I don't know, when people kind of reach out and say that it's

that a song of mine has done something like that for them. It's pretty crazy. What would the Benny, who's crying on your bed Thursday, the second week of university, you're feeling like you're going to drop out, you're making pizzas. What would that Benny think of Benny today? Oh, my goodness. I think that they'd be pretty shocked. And I feel like I still am pretty shocked, and it all feels very surreal to me. And I probably wouldn't believe myself.

Yeah. What does Benny do with this surreal quality and this shock of success during the pandemic? She, of course, translates it into another wonderful song. My new song is called Snail. and it's my lockdown song and I wrote it a week coming out of New Zealand lockdown I was super fascinated by snails for some reason in lockdown and I like tried to keep a couple of pets

and I've actually moved out of my parents' house now but I think that there's like, I think it's like low-care infested with snails because there are just so many, like there are so many and I just felt inspired to write a song about like a snail kind of like wondering what a human is doing and why they're not outside and living normal life. And it's kind of like this little song,

about the snail and this human. That's so sweet. Yeah, thanks. Like a snail, you're a guy, kind of when it stays, when it burns. This is, like, one of, I think, one of my most favorite productions. With snail, I really didn't want to hold back on, like, going crazy and mixing genres. I feel like it's kind of like a techno-y. and that goes out like throughout the whole song.

And then also the percussion is all like still kind of cutesy and fun. But it's like that kind of goes over that really heavy like bass. I like to contrast those kind of things. I feel like it's nice like blending it all together. Like a big stew. As I wake down goes day. Out comes night look at light. I think here I'm like kind of speaking like I'm the snail and I had like a vocoder

all my vocals which I kind of had never really used before, but I was super excited about it. And I was like, okay, cranked the Vakoda. As I wake down goes day, out comes night, look alive. I was thinking, like, kind of like, like the soundtrack that you'd hear to like a short kind of film, where it's kind of like someone's like riding on a bike

and it's like, there's like this weird kind of like synthy music going on in the background. I feel like if you take away some of the kind of the 8080, like heavy stuff in here, I feel like it kind of feels like that to me. It's sort of cinematic, except it's like, honey, I shrunk the kids on a snail. Yep. Exactly. It's like a snail. You're a guy kind of mad.

I can fly. When it's stay. Hide a way. I come out. When it rains. When it rains. I'm like a snail. You're a guy kind of mad.

I can fly. When a stay, hide away. I come out when it rains. It doesn't make any sense. And like super lonely. I think this was one where I was kind of just like having fun with it and playing with these ideas

that I'm like a snail and I'm like kind of stuck in a house and that I kind of added another character to my narrative where it's like I'm speaking to someone and wondering why they're not you know, free and outside and it's kind of like this whole story where I'm like meeting up with this person

to kind of like be free and I'm a snake I kind of am a snail. It seems as though you really use levity as a way to deal with some of the most difficult situations going on in your world and our world. Yeah, definitely. I feel like I kind of feel like it's sort of a Kiwi thing. I feel like a lot of friends of mine and myself, I feel like we kind of, you know, we tend to kind of find like a joke to kind of mask the fact that we're sad or like, you know, You know, we can kind of joke about it and we can, like, relate.

That is definitely my approach to songwriting. A lot has happened for you in one of the strangest periods of everyone's lives. And who knows what the future is going to look like for anyone? Nonetheless, I'm still curious. Given that you've gone from making pizzas, trying to make music, to really making music, what would Benny today want to say to Benny five years from today? I like to remind myself to not take myself too seriously. I feel like I like to remind myself just to kind of have fun with stuff

and to kind of, yeah, not take myself too seriously and not overthink too much enough because I do that a lot and it tends to like not be the bestest. But yeah. It seems like the way that you're writing songs and the way that they are connecting with people if you keep that in mind that's going to keep working for you. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully.

This has been genuinely one of the most fun conversations I've got to have on the show. Thanks, dude. Nice talking to you. Cheers. Bye. Switched-on Pop is produced by Bridget Armstrong, Megan Lubin, Nate Sloan, and me, Charlie Harding. And I want to say a big special thanks to our guest producer this week, Andrea Selenzi. We're mixed mastered and engineered by Brandon McFarlane, social media by Abby Barr, and illustrations by Iris Gottlieb.

Our executive producers are Nashat Kerwa and Liz Kelly Nelson. and we're a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network. You can find all of our social media stuff at Switch. On Pop. Please send me fun suggestions. I really do love listening to them. And we'll be back again next week. And until then, thanks for listening.

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