Switched on Pop - Brittany Howard's Chaos Theory (with Brittany Howard)

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

When it comes to powerful artistry, few can match the intensity of Brittany Howard. Over the past decade, we’ve seen her bring her signature Southern belt to the Alabama Shakes, her intimate songwriting to her first solo record, and now, her boundary-pushing genre experimentation on her new album What Now. The record, which drops on Friday, February 9th, continues to show Howard’s versatility – the record jumps from disco pop to pared-back R&B to roaring psychedelia.  This episode of Switched On Pop, we’re giving you an early look at all What Now has to offer, as well as an interview with the woman behind it all: Brittany Howard.  Sign up for the Switched On Pop Newsletter Songs Discussed: Brittany Howard – What Now Alabama Shakes – Hold On Alabama Shakes – Don’t Wanna Fight Alabama Shakes – Future People Leon Bridges – Coming Home Khruangbin – Two Fish and an Elephant Brittany Howard – Tomorrow Erykah Badu – Window Seat Brittany Howard – Stay High Brittany Howard – Prove It To You Brittany Howard – I Don’t Brittany Howard – Another Day Brittany Howard – Interlude Brittany Howard – Red Flags Robin S – Show Me Love Brittany Howard – Every Color In Blue Brittany Howard – To Be Still The Shangri-Las – Leader Of The Pack Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's why over thousands of businesses have made. made the switch. So why not you? Try O-D-O-D-4-3 at O-D-O-O-D-com. That's O-D-O-O-O-O-com. You should scat on your next record. I like scatting. Now, that's the art form. Ski-de-da-da-da-do-do-do-do. That's what we need to hear. That's what the people need to hear. That's the new intro to your show. Ski-b-b-de-b-b-b-switch-daw. I'll be something in invoice. Welcome to Switchdown Pop. I'm producer Rihanna Cruz.

And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. So over the past few weeks, as we move into the second month of 2024, this great year we find themselves in, I've been doing my due diligence to keep up with new music. There's a lot of good stuff out there already, and we've talked about some of it on the show in the past few weeks. There's also a lot of albums that I'm excited for. And this week, an artist I really love is putting out a great one. Britney Howard with her record, What Now? Vienna, what's got you excited about Britney's new album? Amen, there's so much to love here, but What Now I think is really special because it serves as

a further exploration into Britney Howard's eclectic, multi-genre sound. On this record, she jumps around from the rock sound that we've come to know her for into more dancey, more poppy territory. There's a lot of cool stuff happening on it. So I thought we take this opportunity to explore the music of Brittany Howard, get into this new record. And in the back half of the episode, I'll be asking her all the questions. I'm here for this because 10 years ago, I remember when the Alabama shakes hit the scene and I was like, wow, this is incredible. I remember when Britney Howard released her first solo record and I was really taken with it. And then I kind of lost the thread a little bit. So maybe you can get me back.

into this world and help frame what I should be listening for in this new album. fret not knee. I'm here. You can feel me, fret. You can sense me fretting. You know I love to fret. Oh yeah, you're sweating over there. You're sweating over there. The suris. But it's okay. The Michigas. The yeah, it's it was it was weighing on me. Okay, so where do we start? Well, I'm assuming for most people their first encounter where Brittany Howard was with the band she co-founded in 2009 Alabama Shakes. The band was a pioneering Americana and soul act that put out two critically acclaimed albums before going on hiatus. And on both of those

records, Brittany plays rhythm guitar as well as sings. And Nate, I wanted to ask you, do you remember the first time you heard Britney Howard's powerful, raspy, one-of-a-kind vocal? I can tell you exactly when it was. Someone sent me a YouTube video. This must have been over 10 years ago, 2012 of the Alabama Shakes performing the song. Hold on. No context. I'd know nothing. I just clicked my mouse and I was riveted. I would be riveted as well after hearing that. But I know for me the first time I heard Brittany Howard, it was on this track. That is Don't Want to fight off of Alabama Shakes' 2015 album, Sound in Color. And I think Don't Want to Fight was a maybe one of the free songs that you could download on iTunes for the day.

You know, like it was one of those things. A simpler time. Yeah, simpler time. I don't know how I came upon it, but for some reason I downloaded it, changed my life. I mean, hearing that first vocal from Brittany, which sort of begins almost like a wheeze before transitioning into this breathy vocal explosion. I can imagine you would be like, what is this? Who is this?

How is this? It's pretty stunning. Sound and color changed my life. It was one of those albums that I heard when I was a teenager, you know, just starting to get into music. Yeah. You kind of click on a random record and then your worldview is changed forever. Sound and color opened my eyes to all that music could be. Wow.

That's powerful. Thank you. Steve Jobs for you. your free Apple download that day. We appreciate it. Let's check out the fourth track on Sound and Color, Future People. I feel like Future People is pretty indicative of the Alabama Shake sound. Rit large, we're hearing lots of garage rocky, fuzz, distortion.

There's mid-tempo, 60s-inspired guitar that's a little plucky. We got roomy drums. Of course, there's Britney Howard's staple, powerful focal. It's a little, this isn't a, technical term, but it sounds a little swampy to me. It's got that. I like that, though. Got that swamp vibe, you know, that southern. Yeah. Kind of like in the back pocket. I mean, again, you know, I'm putting my PhD aside for a moment and just giving you my feels here. But I love it. It's great. Yeah, I think like around this time, right, 2015, there were a lot of peers also chasing this sound, this swampy revival moment. Thinking of someone like Leon Bridges, for example, or even looking at Crangben's first record

at a song like Two Fish and an Elephant. All three of these artists came out around the same time, and they're playing in this kind of 60s, 70s studio pastiche. Really highlighting the fact that these are all organic instruments being played by people. There's a liveliness to this sound that may be contrasted with some of the more synthetic textures of the mid-2000s. But much like the way this organic sound faded into the ether in favor of new and experimental ways of making music,

Alabama Shakes went on hiatus, and Brittany Howard took this opportunity to test the waters with a solo career on her 2019 album, Jamie. Here's the song, Tomorrow. Very different aesthetic than what we'd heard with the Alabama Shakes, a little more introspective maybe, a little more like experimental, not really recreating this specific sonic historical moment,

but really seems to be following her own voice and her own path. For sure. We're seeing on this song tomorrow a lot of genre experimentation, which is indicative of the album Jamie writ large. It's a shift away from the Americana tones of Alabama Shakes, into more R&B, into more unexplored territory for Brittany Howard. This track, to me, feels very Erica Badu-esque. Badu-esque or Baduism?

Sorry. Cool, there's never a bad time to channel Erica Badu. So I like that analogy. No, of course not. That was Window Seat. And both tracks show a very vocal forward approach, whereas I feel like in Alabama Shakes, there's equal emphasis placed on the voice as there is on the bass, as there is on the guitar. In Brittany Howard's solo work, a lot of it is very vocal forward, which I think works because, of course,

you know, her guitar playing is excellent, but what's really notable is her vocals. And the song Tomorrow and Jamie Ritlarge charts new territory forward for Brittany Howard. There's less trepidation, I feel, to move into more modern textures. We're hearing less distortion and less rock inspiration in her work writ large. There's still inklings of that Alabama Shake sound on Jamie. Take a song like Stay High, for example. But her new record, What Now, is her second solo album. and there's a lot of surprises.

It's a continuation of this genre experimentation. We're getting stuttering breaks. We're getting psychedelic classic rock. It feels like her most chaotic record in the way that it jumps around sounds, but perhaps the most surprising pivot can be heard on one of her singles. The track, prove it to you.

This is different. sparkly, effervescent scents over this propulsive house groove. I feel like Brittany Howard is exploring like different corners of what her voice can do, kind of like taking us down into her lower range a little bit, building it up. If this is indicative of this new album, it's like we're hearing an artist evolving and experimenting with each new release. Yeah, when I heard this, I was so gagged. I said, Britney Howard doing full pop? What? When you look at it, it's like, we got the foreto the floor beat. We have shiny,

shimmering, glowing synthesizers. And there's still distortion, but it's still such a new direction for her that it really caught me off guard. It's poppy. Well, if we go back to those Alabama Shakespeare's recordings, we were describing them as being sort of consciously reaching back to an earlier time of music making with just drums and a bass and electric guitar. Now, Brittany Howard is embracing some of the more digital synthetic soundscapes that are available, but doing it in a way that still sounds true to her, I think. It's a really interesting bridge between the sounds that her career is founded on and this new uncharted territory. I wanted to know more about what went into Brittany's new album, What Now?

And to do that, I had to go straight to the source. My conversation with Brittany Howard after the break. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier.

CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, O-DU replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try O-D-O-F-Free at O-D-O-D-O-O-com. That's O-D-O-O-O-O-com. Hi, my name is Brittany Howard. I had the absolute pleasure of speaking to Brittany on January 23rd

a few weeks before the release of What Now, her second solo out. album. What now to me in both sounds and tone feels a little bit lighter than Jamie. How is what now specifically different for you than your previous solo work? I feel a little freer than I did before, maybe a little more evolved, a little more experienced. It's been about four years since Jamie come out. And since then, I've had like multiple relationships rise and fall. And also like, like, an entire pandemic to live through. Lots of introspection. And thank God throughout that process, lots of growth.

Do you see your own solo work different than your work with your band, Alabama Shakes? Yeah, I think it's different because, you know, there's really no one to bounce ideas off of. It's kind of just me making ultimate choices and decisions. And it's actually been really freeing creatively, which I think is just exactly what I needed. I think I just needed a moment to succeed or fail on my own terms. I can say that is very liberating in a lot of ways. I mean, you keep mentioning freeing, right? Is this something that you feel comes through in the songs on the record?

I think so because on this album, each song is its own little movie. You know what I mean? You know, maybe if you listen to it, the album sounds consistent with itself. But to me, each one is like a snapshot of my life in a little journal. And, you know, I've never made a four on the floor track before. And that's on there. Right. Lots of sampling is on there.

Anyway, it's on the record. It's definitely like a little more expansive, I'd say sonically, too. Tell me a little bit about the sampling. I was unaware that they're sampling on the record. That's so cool. Are you at liberty to share? Yeah, I mean, I sampled myself, which I think people do that. Nice. What track do you sample yourself on? I'm curious.

It's a song called I Don't. Also, I sampled Maya Angelou. Oh. Yeah, because I just really love a voice. And so I sampled her as well. Was that on the interlude? Yeah, it's the interlude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In multiple cases on What Now, I feel like some of the songs sound more communal than personal. Did you approach songs like Another Day differently?

Because Another Day to me, I think, is a standout on the record. for the way that it speaks to the we, you know, rather than like the eye. And I think that's like really special. It's interesting because I don't, sometimes I don't know if I can speak about the we without the I. Or vice versa. Can I speak about the I without the we? You know, we always obviously are affecting each other and informing each other. So a song like another day, like originally came from a place where I needed to know where I and who I was during like really chaotic times.

I wrote that during the pandemic and we couldn't go outside. And it was scary to know what was going to happen. But at the same time, I was having like all of these emotions. Like at the time I was like falling in love and I was having good feelings. And I was having really scary feelings and all of these feelings like existed within me. And I just wanted to write music that reflected that. And I think a lot of people were going through that, you know, not just me. there's lots and lots and lots of feelings with nowhere to go sometimes.

Yeah, and I think, like, I'm not a musician by any means, but I feel like turning to art during the pandemic was a logical response. You know, it's like kind of a catharsis, you know, and a release in a lot of ways. And, you know, what's funny is, it's like the last thing I wanted to do. Right. It's so funny because, like, during the pandemic, I was looking at all these people, like, being productive with their art and their creativity.

And I wasn't. And I was just like, I don't know. maybe envious is the word. I was like, I can't believe people are able to produce during this time. Like, why can't I do that? Meanwhile, the whole time I was writing an album, I just didn't know it. I didn't know that that's what I was doing. I thought I was just fooling around.

That's when the most beautiful work comes, though. You know what I mean? Emerging through these fiddles and kind of just like seeing what works. And I just thought that the songs I was writing, no one was going to hear them. And I think that's why I felt so much freedom to do everything. Well, speaking of freedom, I think, like, you know, we're talking about liberation a lot. We're talking about being free. Thinking of a song, like Red Flags, for example, I think, like, there's a very freeing catharsis on these tracks.

Yeah, so Red Flag started off with the drum pattern. And I loved the drum pattern. I thought it was so strange. It was very stop and go. And I was like, okay, cool, cool, cool. I like this. And then I had, like, this baritone guitar, which I've never used. My friend let me borrow it.

Shout out Tom. My friend let me borrow it. And I had never used it, and I had had it for like a year. And I was like, all right, this song's getting the baritone. So then I had that do do do do do on there. And I was like, we're off to the races. And at first, lyrically, I wasn't talking about anything at all. It was just making noises.

And then it kind of later on in the song's life took on this life of red flags. and how I ignored them. Previously, you mentioned that you'd never done a four-to-the-floor pop song before. I'm assuming that's Prove It to You, right? Right. Prove it to you. For me, prove it to you. I like house music. And a very particular type of house music I like was like kind of 90s, like maybe starting to get into the 2000s a little bit.

I wanted this song to be very simple and straightforward. And I just wanted it to be danceable because I feel like danceable. and movement is very healing and very release. It releases a lot of things stuck in the body. And I think that's why human beings have danced since the dawn of time, you know, to move things out. Animals do it. So humans need to do it.

And so I wanted to do a song like that with a huge baseline and these big Ato-A drums. But at the same time, I wanted the vocals to be very vulnerable and very small and very insured themselves. And I just thought that was like a really interesting juxtaposition. And it came out kind of hopeful. get not completely helpful. And so I was like, toss it on the album. I like that contrast, though, because I'm a big, like, househead, right?

Especially from that time period. And it's like, you listen to, like, I'm chilling, you know, I'm on my own, kind of like Robin S Show Me Love thing. Like, I am a powerful woman in my own being. Juxtaposing an unsure perspective with that powerful house influence is fascinating. I think it's, like, very nuanced. And I think that's what makes the tracks. special is that it has both of these elements in and of itself.

Yeah, thanks so much. Like, that's why I decided to keep it around. I just thought that was just that interesting take on how to do a house song. Yeah, I'm hearing a lot of, like, disco influence on that. You know, hearing a lot of clubby pop type B. Like, I don't know, I go out and like, that's a song that I would hear on like Santa Monica Boulevard. You know what I mean?

Like, during like brunch hours, you know, kind of just passing by here. Not brunch. Are you not making brunch music? Go on. No, no, no, no. I'm curious. I'm making, what is it? You can't have pizza anytime.

I'm making that kind of music. I love that. I love that. Hell yeah. So true. But yeah, I don't know. I'm getting a lot of like fun, disco kind of clubby elements to it. Do you feel as though this record is more poppy writ large, or is it just on these specific tracks?

I think it's on the specific tracks. I always like to do an album that has, maybe not equal parts, but accessibility to it. I feel like sometimes if you have some accessibility on it, you can maybe expand some people's listening with the other material on the album. And I don't know if you've noticed, but as time has gone on, I've, become a little bit more, what's the word I want to use, like, experimental. And I kind of like to bring my fans along, and maybe there's music on there that people wouldn't have otherwise listened to. And I'm kind of just going in that direction very slowly. You know, I'm not putting my noise record out, like, right now.

We need it. Soon. I read your New York Times profile today, and you spoke a lot about frustration. How did you communicate that through the music? Well, I don't know. Like, sometimes I feel like frustration can feel like chaos. And I feel like there's a lot of chaos on this album. There's a lot of things that there's a lot of elements that kind of shouldn't be where they are.

Like, for example, like during Red Flags, there's like a 1940s inkspots-esque chorus. There's like four vocals singing in the background. It's like kind of old barbershop way under the chorus, which doesn't go there, but somehow is giving creepy, is giving urgent. And it just all adds to the chaos. And another song on the album is Every Color in Blue, where there's so much going on at once. It's just whipping into this, like, tornado. Viscerally, I just wanted to do elements like that to kind of, like, I guess, portray where I was at the time. which is like, how does any of this make sense?

Like, especially America, like, at the time, just like being on fire, you know? Yeah. So you mentioned, like, music kind of breaking through the chaos, particularly, you know, the music this record's serving as, like, kind of a balm for that chaos. At the same time, I feel like the lyrics are very poetic. They're not very chaotic to me. They feel very, like, smooth and simple and easy. And looking at songs, like, to be still on paper,

They read like poems, you know, they read like things, sand's music, kind of standing on their own. How do you dream, you would hold me for in summer, you could play me in the sun or in the shade. How do you approach crafting a song from a lyrical perspective, when you have this whole chaos, you know, vibe going on, in the music. So a lot of where I get

like lyrically references from is like music from the 50s, kind of like these older love ballads where the music is like very sweet and the lyrics can be like about their boyfriend dying in a car accident.

You know, like yeah. It's always like it's the most interesting pop subject matter and everyone was singing it and no one batted an eye at the lyrical content. But everything was just so simple and sweet, you know. And that's kind of like a place that I'd like to approach my work from,

which is like this juxtaposition, right? Because I find it interesting and I find it mixed things like Richard when you're coming at something like chaos. And musically, it's swirling around and there's like all this reverb and you're like in this environment. And then there's lyrics that are poignant, straight to the point, short and sweet. and maybe sung in an opposite style as all that chaos. And that pulls your ear to that place, right?

Unless purposefully I'm trying to create an entire environment of chaos, which, like, I don't know how long I would let a listener sit in that, maybe just a little bit, you know, like maybe five seconds of that. But, you know, all of it's kind of purposefully designed to be seen. And so, like, when I approach lyrics, I really do sit down and think if they can stand on their own. and if I care at all about what I'm talking about because if I don't care, then it's not good.

Of course, to me, good isn't the eye of the beholder. And it's kind of like a puzzle in a way because it has to fit within these parameters that I just laid out. But also, it has to mean something and pull something emotionally out of me. So sometimes the lyrics can take a really long time because I actually care. And I'm just curious,

why won't you let a listener sit in the chaos for a long time? I mean, it's more for me just about your ears getting tired. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like an onslaught of noise? Yeah, we can do onslaught of noise, but I just wouldn't do that for very long. I guess when I say chaos, I mean absolute nonsense. One of my last questions is you've previously spoken about being influenced by artists like David Bowie and Prince, both artists that have played and toyed with gender in their artistry.

And I'm curious how gender comes into play when you're approaching your work, if it does at all. I think maybe the only times it really enters into my work is that when I am singing, I make sure I'm announcing that I'm singing to a woman. Because I think that's important. Because this song, I think it's important for me and it has a lot just to do with being seen. And I think that's that. I don't know if there's any more dissecting that goes into that. No, but I appreciate that because, like, I don't know, like, as somebody who's queer, I feel like listening to your music, you know, there was something there that I connected with, right?

And even listening to Jamie in songs like Georgia, like, it's like I locked onto that. And I remember listening for the first time and, like, getting emotional because I was like, this feels like I am being seen. As a queer person of color, like, I think it's, like, very important in probably, you know, similar ways that you do to be seen and be forward in the way that we present our work. And I think it's like really cool that you're very forward with that because I think like a lot of artists aren't or can't afford to, you know, it's just like it's really special. Yeah. Thanks for saying that. I mean, it's kind of also like it's not just a sexuality forward

type of feeling. Yeah. That I do hear a lot in pop actually. Like when it comes to women loving women or whatever. But it's more like the emotionality, the fearfulness, the uncertainty, like all of these feelings that we actually all feel when we're accessing love. But I just wanted it, I wanted it to be known like, I'm sending this to another woman. And these feelings, surprise, of love are all the same across the board. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And it's like, yes, being witnessed by my peers and people who, who are like me and like us, but also for people who maybe don't understand

the LGBTQIA plus community. Yeah, I did it all. I did it all. But it's like maybe they don't understand and maybe, maybe, maybe perhaps they could listen to my song and my songs and be like, oh, this is actually just the same way as I felt.

Maybe this is just the same way. Maybe that's a reach, but it's hopeful. Do you feel as though that you have to represent, like a certain community, a certain way? You know, that's the thing. Like, I'm living. I'm making a space for myself and therefore anyone who relates to me. And, of course, at the same time, as I'm doing interviews, I do live in Tennessee. And there are certain things going on.

And I will always speak to them about, you know, what's going on here. I don't mean to get into politics when we're talking about my new album and stuff. But, you know, I'm a Libra, and there's like a lot of things that are unfair, and I can't help it, but become aggravated and angry for my communities, my communities of musicians, my communities of LGBTQ, my communities of black folks. I cannot help, but be loud and proud. It's like you have to balance the scales. I get it. The Lieber metaphor works.

Yes, the Libra metaphor does work. It's true life. It's real. Yeah. Thank you, Brittany. This was a lovely interview. Thank you. It's great to meet you. This episode of Switched on Pop was produced by me, Rihanna Cruz, edited by Art Chung, engineered by Brandon McFarland. Our illustrations are by Iris Gottlieb, community management by Apu Bar, our executive producers in the Shot Kerwa, and we are a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network and a production of Vulture, as well as New York Magazine. And you can subscribe at nymag.com slash pod. Talk to us on social media at Switched on Pop.

Tell us what you're hearing in the latest Brittany Howard release. Tell us your favorite, you know, Britney Howard performances over the years, from her solar work to the Alabama Shakes. And I think you would do well to go to switchedonpop.com or go to our show notes and sign up for our newsletter. And let me tell you why, because if you listen to this show, you probably love hearing and learning about music. This newsletter just shows up in your inbox once a week.

It's very gentle, it's very unassuming. And yet it is filled with additional insight, rube, germane to the topics that we're discussing, right? Like this week we had my personal diatribe about what I love and value in musical theater and how I put that into my, own, you know, compositions. A must read. Thank you, Rihanna. But also incredible listening suggestions, you know. So, wow, that was a very long and roundabout way of saying.

Signed for the newsletter. Rianna, anything else? Not much jealous. I got to say, I recorded my end of the Brittany Howard interview in the Newport, Oregon Public Library. So I just wanted the shout-out libraries, shout-out third spaces. Wow. They rock. Love a library shout-out.

Yeah. Yeah, I felt like I got to give them their flowers. That's on the coast. It's on the Oregon coast, I believe. Yeah, right on the water. I'm a Pacific Northwest geography. Can I shout out the Pasadena library system while we're here, Rihanna? Yeah, why not?

Sure. Switched on Pop loves libraries. Switched on Pop loves libraries. We'll be back again. Next Tuesday with a brand new episode. And until then, thanks for listening. Attention, Spotify. Has arrived on the new Google Jasmine Absolute of Carolina Herrera,

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