Switched on Pop - Chasing old sounds: Djo's "End of Beginning" with Joe Keery

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

Joe Keery is best known for his acting roles, such as the reformed jock Steve Harrington in "Stranger Things" and his chilling performance in season 5 of "Fargo." But he's also a spectacular musician. Rising through the Chicago music scene in college, he has self-released two albums under the moniker 'Djo.' His latest work, "Decide" from 2022, serves as a coming-of-age story and a meditation on navigating modern life. Despite strong initial reviews, the album only gained widespread attention two years later when its breakout hit "End of Beginning" became a soundtrack for youthful nostalgia on TikTok, casting Keery as an accidental pop star. Joe Keery joined "Switched On Pop" to discuss the creation and significance of "Decide." Sign up for the Switched On Pop Newsletter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Attention Spotify. Has arrived the new Good Girl Jasmine Absolute of Carolina Herrera, a fragrance intense with character gourmet and addictive. Imagine a jasmine emvolvent, toffee caramelized,

and tonka-tostata. A combination that seduce from the first instant and a waya. Good Girl Jasmine Absolute hypnotica irresistible. Discover it now and let you

turn to move over for your sensia. Welcome to Switchdown Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. Before yesterday, I had known Joe Kiri as an actor, especially for his breakout role as character Steve Harrington, the reformed jock in the 80s throwback sci-fi show Stranger Things.

But I hadn't known about his strengths as a musician until recently when his song, End of Beginning, started popping up seemingly out of nowhere. Joe Kiri may be known for his acting, but he's been making music ever since he saw a school of rock as a kid and got a guitar. He self-taught, made songs and garage band as a teenager, and when he moved to Chicago to pursue an acting education, he played in the psychedelic rock band Post Animal. Then, late in 2015, he got the Stranger Things gig, and music turned into a pastime. While filming on set, he'd like a cheap recording can guitar and a simple audio set up and MIDI controller,

and that's how he self-recorded and released a debut solo album called 2020 back in 2019. And his latest album, Decide, produced with Adam Thien, came out in 2022 to strong reviews, but not really much airplay. That's all until the song, End of Beginning, bubbled up, organically on TikTok as the soundtrack for teenage nostalgia. It brought Joe riding up the billboard chart going all the way to number 11 on the Hot 100 and topping the alternative chart. I have to admit, I'm kind of allergic to meteoric rises on social media, especially by a celebrity

music project. But when I inspected Joe's entire body of work, it was immediately bought in. And I think you will be too. Here's my conversation with Joe. Hey, I'm Joe Kiri, and my band's called Joe, D.J. I have to admit that I totally wrote you off when I... Good. I totally, I understand.

And for two reasons. Uh-huh. One, no spoilers. I'm currently in the middle of Fargo. Oh, cool. And your character is terrifying. Yeah, I have a pretty rotten guy. So I'm like, I don't want to talk that guy.

I know. I wouldn't want to talk about that. I wouldn't either. But the second is, you know, I generally am just skeptical of anything that might appear as a vanity project. Of course. Yeah. Right. and I had no idea what your musical talents were.

I spent the last couple of days listening to your work, and both albums, but especially, your latest album, just completely blew me away. What is the story event of beginning? The recording of the second album, I did a lot on my computer, really in the box. We're talking in the MIDI zone, just, like, tak, tak, tak, you know, really get into it.

And trying to push the boundaries, I had sort of done the guitar-based drums indie thing and I was kind of feeling inspired with hyperpop and more artists who felt like a little more avant-gardeau pushing the boundaries so I really wanted to try to do that incorporate kind of like the psychedelic aspects from my own background in Post-Animal and then also just try to write like kind of pure good songs

and so by the end of it we had all these songs that I felt like were really interesting to me And we worked long and hard on a lot of them, arguably, I think, maybe too long and too hard for some of them, and we had to dial some back. And so I wanted one more song. We all felt like we need one more song that's like, we just needed one more.

And so it was a voice memo that I had done, and it was very simple. I guess the conceit of the song was like, let's make the most fucking simple song ever, verse, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge chorus. And we tracked guitar, bass and drums live. And then we kind of finished the instrument, This is my first time in a professional studio also.

We had two 10-day periods. The first 10-day period was in 2021, like in September, and then December was the other one. And so in September, we finished the instrumental and kind of, I guess, cracked it when I was home with my family, I think, for Thanksgiving, really. And then I ended up visiting Chicago, and it kind of just fell kind of all into place.

Chicago, you went to college in Chicago, studied theater there. I did, yeah, and played kind of in a bunch of different bands in the music scene, kind of left a mark on me. And I guess... At the most pivotal point of one's developing identity as a young person, right? I'm guessing this is like 18 through 20s. Exactly right.

And basically, I booked Stranger Things when I was living in Chicago and was waiting tables and stuff. And unbeknownst to me, my life really changed in like a year. Things were really, really different. And so the song is kind of like about me coming back to Chicago and thinking about, wow, like, I really miss this time. And I really... I kind of like yearn for just, I didn't know how great it was.

How, like, this community that I had and, like, I miss certain elements of my life that I had at that point in time. And when I'm back in Chicago, I feel it. Obviously, there's all sorts of wonderful things have happened in your career, but it also finds you for multiple months taping in Calgary. Yeah, exactly. No shame to Calgary. But I'm assuming that you don't have a large community there. Yeah, exactly. You're moving around to Atlanta, Los Angeles, New York.

You're all over the place. Exactly. there is something to be nostalgic, I guess, about. So the song's about that, being nostalgic about that, but then also, I guess, about how you kind of always take that part of your life with you. You can't spend your time just in your whole life, wishing for a simpler time,

but you can learn from it and kind of enjoy the time that you're living in now. So that's really, I guess, what I meant with that song. I mean, it's really rewarding for me that people are connecting with it. with it. Yeah. Really cool.

How did it happen? I really don't know, to be honest with you. I think obviously somewhere along the line on TikTok, it seems like it has dug its fingers into it and kind of got shared and it just sort of, these things kind of come and go. I've had one song before that had like a nice little bump, but this one kind of just didn't stop and kept being shared. And I think an element of it was that it was a discovery that I was the guy who made it. Sure.

And then also it just seems like people connected to the core themes of the song and I've experienced being a part of something that kind of has a real rise and to have that same experience but with something that I actually wrote and is my own personal experience is extremely rewarding.

What has your experience been over the last couple of weeks? What is your relationship to this thing as you said it's just continued to climb? You know, I've been doing press and kind of going around and talking to people about the song. Yeah. That's been really cool bunch of people that I admire or like, you know, people reach out that I admire too and be like,

hey, this song's cool. It's like, what the hell? What about what happened when you found out you were on the Hot 100? Yeah, it's like ridiculous. I didn't have the notion that I was going to make a big pop song. I was just kind of writing this music for me. It's sort of like my moonlighting job. I have my day job and there's like my hobby that I really like to do. And so it's hard for me, I kind of think, to like put into perspective anything that's really going on. I'm also, I'm not playing any live shows, so it's not like, I'm going to a bigger and a bigger show. It's kind of just like a number on the page. And I think it'll take some time, I guess, to really have it sink in. Yeah. You know, I don't know. Is this going to last forever,

or is this just like a cool thing that's happening now? I don't know. Yeah, it's pop music. So, you know, it could be, it could be decades or it could be... Or it could be... And tomorrow. Yeah. I know. It's funny. And, like, It kind of makes me feel like, what is pop music, I guess? And how is this pop? I mean, I guess it's popular, but like, when you think of pop music, you think of a certain style of production, I think. So you obviously have an advantage as, you know, you're a known actor.

That's helpful for getting the song out there. But this thing sort of bubbled up through TikTok, people using this song as background to their own nostalgic experiences of their place. It's actually more of a country trope than it is a pop trope. Yeah. Like, I guess it's also in hip-hop as well. like really representing the place you're from and having nostalgia for where you're from

and people are using this song. Yeah. And this really beautiful, authentic way. It's kind of like a background for nostalgia. Yeah. For a lot of things. I mean, the trends that I've seen are all kind of like, I guess that, you know, like a background for that.

It's not necessarily, the only thing that's about the song maybe is like, oh, it's this dude that wrote this song. Yeah, I've seen, you know, as I did my research and looked on TikTok a handful of the now popular ones are like, oh, did you know that this trend came from this guy? I'm sure that's helpful if people know your face, but you didn't see this out there. It just kind of happened.

I wanted to ask about the advantage of making music without any particular intent, actually. Do you think there's any sort of creative advantage in doing so? Certainly. I'm so privileged to have it as this like, not side project, but like it's my hobby that I'm really interested in. I have this job that I, you know, am comfortable and I can live the way I want to live

and just put money into this as like a fun thing. And it takes the pressure off. in terms of like what you need your music to do. I don't need my music to do much of anything except push the creative boundaries that I want to push. If anything, the only time I've really felt like a little bit of pressure is really now, I mean, that people are actually kind of listening. Before, it's like I felt like I had kind of a core group

of, like, dedicated fans that, like, were really kind of into what I was doing. And, you know, I like really eclectic albums. I don't think, like, this album, not all the songs sound like in the beginning. It's kind of all over the map. What is The Side? What are you trying to say on this album? And how does end of beginning fit into whatever the larger statement might be? Yeah.

I feel like when I was writing it, it was just like kind of throwing paint in a wall. But for me now, it's very clear, I guess, what the album kind of is about. Yeah, I was living in L.A. I was really kind of like I was, you know, in my late 20s and kind of asking myself those questions. Like, who am I? like where do I belong? What do I want to say? And I think there's kind of like a lot of that,

a lot of like self-questioning and anxiety. And I think at the beginning is an outlier, but I do think it's like a strong, powerful emotion that feeds into that or at least fed into that, like being so confused in the present and kind of like reaching for the past to try to, as a little like life raft to kind of like make sense of maybe what you are now.

There's a kind of death that happens in one's 20s of the end of youth. And so there's something about end of beginning, which, I mean, it's a tearjerker because I'm no longer that age. Yeah. Right? And I was just listening last night

to like a whole bunch of songs about that, those songs that are about the interminable youth of teenagerdom, like teenage dream. We are young by fun. There's a whole category of songs, which are, Tonight is the Night. we're going to live forever tonight,

dance forever tonight. Tonight's never going to end. Yeah, yeah. And so I do love that that song. It is about the ending of that. Yeah. There's not a lot of songs that are about the end. The night is over.

I realize it's over. That's sad. Yeah. But it's part of this larger questioning that's happening for you about who am I? Who do I need to decide to be? Yeah, I think like the first album, a lot of it is like kind of dealing with like,

whoa, this show has popped off. And I'm like experiencing. like a new, just like fame thing. And then I think the decide, I mean, even in the title, it's about just kind of like this internal decisiveness. It's more of like a mantra for myself. The title is more like, why can't you decide anything in your life, you know? Why can't you just like make a decision?

You know, sometimes deciding anything is better than being indecisive. You want to do life. You don't want life to just like happen to you. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic,

and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay. Ready? Ready. Do not sugarcoat something for me. No, no. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives,

actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. Is there a certain way that being swept up in the stardom of one of the biggest franchises of the last decade, makes decisions just start happening to you? Kind of, I think you can just, like, you can allow yourself to be paralyzed by the whole thing,

and you can allow yourself to be afraid to go outside and afraid to meet new people, and, like, afraid people are using you or afraid that, like, it's very small, I guess, this level of fear, but I think, like, you can allow it to kind of, kind of seep into a lot of your decisions, your daily decision-making that you do,

like, ah, I'm just going to make coffee at home, I don't want to, like, go down the street. Yeah. Or you can just, like, live your life, I guess. Mm-hmm. In retrospect now, I was living in L.A. I've left L.A. I went on, after this album came out, I worked basically from July of 2022 until July of 2023 straight, not living anywhere. So I had this big journey of myself, with myself on the road, just kind of alone.

And writing and recording music as I was doing that with the recording game. So, yeah, I've had kind of a long journey since then. and I'm really thankful for kind of the way that it's worked out because everything, I really do believe everything does happen for a reason. I don't know. I never really got to talk about this record in depth. I mean, it came out, but it's just, I don't know. This is a fun format to do it.

You talked about this feeling of Decide is almost like a mantra, and there are a number of mantras on this album. Definitely. Right? I think you open with a mantra. Yeah. Let's listen to the runner. So we've got love and hate decide,

money grows and dies, people never change, but I have to try, try, try. And if you'll just allow me, I'm going to jump to the end because the mantra does evolve in this song. We can tell already by the second repetition of this mantra, things are going to explode. Yeah.

That's cool. Kind of bleak. Yeah. Pretty bleak, man. This is a dark mantra. That's a dark mantra. Are you somebody that believes people can change or people never change?

And I guess I answered my own question there, at least where I was at in my life, that people don't change, that people always say the same. And I think you could think about it as sort of like, it could be bleak, but it also is like, why try to change things when things are just going to happen? Why not just relax and let them happen

and not sweat the small stuff? There are many smarter people than myself who say, yeah, we have absolutely no control over anything. It's all fate. But I think embracing the perspective of try at least makes us happier and puts smile on our face rather than not try. So that's our opening mantra.

And then we have a closing mantra, which for me is kind of like if Daft Punk went to the dark side, it remade harder, better, faster, stronger. That is sick. Oner, better, faster, stronger. It's grouser. It's getting me.

So, we have that main mantra. It's growing larger. I'm pushing harder. I'm acting sooner. I'm building to it. I'm moving faster. I'm coming closer. It's getting near.

I'm feeling older. It's growing larger. I'm pushing harder. It's sort of off the start. I think, yeah, the way that we did it, it's like doesn't quite line up. Oh, exactly. It's kind of like all mixed up.

You're like, what's the beginning? Something's off kilter. Where does the beginning and where does this thing end? Hard or better, faster, stronger. There's a similar sort of thing by matching up two different lines that eventually form some larger meaning. There's this other moment, maybe a refrain. So tell me about this mantra. Yeah, this is kind of just like life is coming at you.

Life is coming no matter if you're ready or if you're not or if you're prepared for it, if you like it, if you don't. It's kind of just like, life is coming at you, and we're all doing the best that we can, you know? And just having the understanding that everybody is going through this, I guess. Sort of just like a keep your head down and just like, in spite of everything that's happened on this record, in spite of all the shit that you're dealing with, just like, keep going, man. Just keep going.

There's a lot on here about the temptations of digital life. Yeah, yeah. My favorite song on the album is Half-Life. Oh, I love that song. which is like a sonic journey through the sounds of the internet trying to lull you in. Of the synthesizers. It's like Metroid Prime or something. Like video game music.

So we kind of have like a four to the floor, really dark, housey thing happening. And by the time we get to the end, it totally flips on us. And we get this sort of 6-8 groove. Is that what this is? Or 12-8. I don't know. You're not a theory guy. Not at all. Self-taught.

No, I was just like, we should do this. It has a steely Dan, purdy kind of drum feel. And there is this... There is this voice, this lower octave saying, I know you. I love you. I want you. I need you.

You complete me. That's kind of just like the giving in to the temptation of like believing everything you hear. when you're hot, you know, and letting that get to your head, I guess, is what that's about. The whole song's kind of about, like, yeah, interfacing with the internet and, like, your ego, the beginning. I fight the urge to search my name, like, Googling yourself on the internet and, like, boosting your ego, you know, quite literally. And it's kind of embarrassing, to be honest, at the time, I remember being like, oh, should I change this lyric? This is so cringe and embarrassing. But I think, you know, it's like true and also, I don't know, I'm not like proud of it, but it's just like kind of the reality.

Everybody does it. Yeah, yeah, it's just a reality. Everyone's checking. And wait, did someone say something about me? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, checking for that hot buzz of a notification. But the songs also really do give in to this temptation of the digital life. I think that the song on and on is the sexiest song about a phone ever written that sounds like it uses the sounds of genuine.

pony. That's funny. I also feel like that's, it's so funny that you mentioned that, that track, and then also I want your video, I feel like is genuine pony. Oh, like that was two of the, yeah, let's listen. Let's listen. Two moments of genuine. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. A little Timberland production inspiration. So you have this song, I want your video. It's about the, you know, I want a video of you. Yeah. Could be a sexy video. Yeah. It could be just a video, whatever it might be, and you sing about, this is my testimony of how I feel about you. Yeah.

And it's like a quiet storm style sexy song about a iPhone video. I was listening to a lot of like Britney Spears and like in sync for this one. And just trying to make like short songs and like songs that are like stuffed with a little like, ooh, there's a little thing here, little thing here, little thing here. I remember when I heard this, I was like, I'm hearing a little bit of JT's vocal styling. Yeah. So I hear the sing Britney I feel like it's like JT and me maybe share

It's like white dude trying to be Michael Jackson There's some well there's also a lot of There's a lot of Prince styling Yeah, for sure. Yeah, Prince is old Your falsetto I think shares something Yeah, I really I love Prince as well So you have these songs about I want your video

And you know in on and on You literally talk about feeding the algorithm Yeah Have you reflected on the fact that you've written a somewhat cynical song about our relationships to our phones and feeding the algorithm and that it has come back and gifted you this beautiful moment. Yeah, you're not the first person to say that to me and I do think it is kind of like, like, just insane. What are we supposed to do with this? Yeah, I guess it's just, I don't know. I don't really know how to think about it, I guess.

I just wrote it because I was, I felt like I had like an unhealthy relationship with like being on social media. That's basically, you know, I ended up kind of deleting it around the same time. I think it was like in 2021 or 2020 maybe and I just got rid of it because like I was on it too much and looking at my phone being like holy shit I'm I saw some stat where it was like you're going to spend six years on your phone I know your life I was like oh dear Christ I got to get off this thing good for you but yeah and here we are now and like I have TikTok to thank for the fact that this song's gone off maybe maybe it's just like I feel like Bo Burnham captured it so well on his film inside.

Good, I interest you in everything all of the time. A little bit of everything all at the time. Apathy's a tragedy and boredom is a crime. Anything and everything all of the time. The internet is a little bit of everything all at once. And it has both these beautiful moments of people reflecting on the places that matter to them. And then it also has the worst parts of humanity all happening at the exact same time.

It's true. It really is. It's just like this unlimited forum. Yeah. Yeah. And it has gifted us this song that has taken on this whole new life. But before we go, I want to listen to just a few more things. When I listen to the song, Go For It. This is my favorite song. I just wrote, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah.

What are you going for? It's about making a decision in your life, I guess, and pondering on whether it's the right thing or it's the not, or not the right thing. I hear almost like equal amounts of confidence and insecurity happening at the same time. Yeah, definitely. I think that's like basically what indecisiveness is. Somehow we're here to last a thousand years. I mean, yeah,

what it's basically about is like a relationship not working, you know? Yeah. And questioning what the right thing to do

is, you know, is it the right thing to stay or is it the right thing to go and like how much work is too much work and how much expectation should you have for yourself

to like make a sacrifice in a relationship? where you should or, you know, are you being fair, are you being unfair and being so clouded by all those feelings that you don't know what to do, and you don't know what to feel and you don't know how to think about it, I guess. I feel like it leaves a lot open for interpretation.

When I say, I hear go for it, right after unmet needs in 40 ways, it's very unclear. Is it go for it, go for the relationship, or is there something else tempting you somewhere else? And which thing are we going for here? Yeah, I don't, yeah, exactly. I think it's supposed to be open for interpretation. I guess, like, also the reason for that sort of, like,

polyrhythmic bridge. To sort of personify, I guess, how twisted up everything is and how, I don't know, there's like a real negativity in the song, but then also like, I think that the final chorus is sort of hopeful. Communication breaks, then trust us free. But then it sort of also ends negatively. The reason I like this song is because it's ambiguous still to me. I think. The sounds put us in a place of a lot of unease. Yeah.

Like the little pigs, the little... Those sounds. Yeah. And I have to ask if there were any connection to Kate Bush, I hear a lot of similar sounds. I've recreated running up that hill. Had that happened when you wrote this song yet? No.

So the running up the hill, Stranger Things thing, happened after you wrote this song. I hadn't even heard that song until watching Stranger Things. Because a lot of the sounds that she's using, one of the first bedroom or home studio musicians. Her label is getting upset

with the cost of her making her her music. And so she gets a bunch of synthesizers and tape machines and build a home studio and she's using the Fairlight CMI, one of the first early samplers, which you probably have access to

on your computer now, the digital amalgamation of it. And you can actually get the exact same cello patch that she uses to create that just weird like, roo-bron sound and running up that hill.

And there's something that's just so uncanny Valley about a natural sound being heard in such a digital kind of way. And I'm getting the exact same quality. That's like all that stuff at the intro is like a nylon string plucked guitar, but just like erratically programmed. So it sounds sort of like... It's a sample of a guitar. It's not actually guitar playing. Yeah, something about this, album that I was really interested in was like delving into Kevin Parker, I feel like, June 060, you know, well, 106, you like, you know, use these now.

Everybody uses them. Right. And the fuzz guitar. Exactly. Yeah. So I was like, what is sort of like, what are people not using? Mm. And I kind of turned a lot on this album to Ableton patches, presets.

Everybody downloads Ableton. Right. Gets like a million plugins and uses all these plugins and uses the diva and uses this. And uses sound toys and uses this. And I was like, what if we just like only use like the shitty instruments you're given? Yeah. But it's the same thing that people do with like Cassio keyboards. Right.

It's the new Cassio keyboard. Exactly. Right. It's like everyone has it, and so nobody uses it. They instead buy the $500 plug-in that has the amazing high-end things that emulate the thing from the studio. So you're using cheap sounds. So right now it's just like halfway between like the Casio keyboard version of that thing. Right.

And the actual real thing. It's like right in the middle where it's like a little bit more believable than like keyboards that we grew up with in the 90s. Right. But worse than like actually really good stuff. And that's what I did. It makes, so it creates this sense of unease. I think in the ending of the song, it feels almost like a

carpenter horror soundtrack with its digital synthesizers. Oh, the pigs. That's like Donkey Kong. Donkey Kong pigs. And that was like something I did as a... Honestly, it was like a joke. I was like, I just got to get a patch

to fill this idea in this like... And I just got to get a patch. And I just got to... really hooked to this funny little sound. I was like, who in their right fucking mind would put these things in a song? This is so funny because you're using very contemporary production techniques. You're on a laptop, using Ableton Live. You're using sounds that are built into that software. And yet, to me, it sounds like 1980s John Carpenter Horror Films, which were made often on cheap synthesizers or nice synthesizers of the era as a way to create more affordable soundtracks than

hiring an entire orchestra. And the sounds at that time weren't good enough to really emulate them they always sounded a little odd and off, and there is that, that eerieness that you love about those sounds. It's also fitting, and I don't know if intentional or not, that your acting career in stranger things also puts you in that same domain. It's like, well, I also just like love studio tech

recording from that era, I guess, kind of late 70s, early 80s, when the technology was kind of on the cutting edge and things were really changing. You know, it wasn't just sort of like analog, it was kind of becoming this blend. I really love that era. And I guess some of my favorite modern artists take either influences from the past and kind of reinvent them or recycle as we all try to do.

And so I guess it's just sort of that chasing old sounds and trying to reinterpret them in a new way. I love it. I just have one other song I want to talk about really quickly. Yeah, please. You took like a bunch of notes on this thing? Can't look at my notes? Oh, my God. This guy's got notes.

He took a lot of notes. Oh, shit, this guy is a teacher. I failed all my class. Oh, Jesus. You'd pass my music class. The song, Climax. Yeah. Really enjoy the sound space that you've created here.

A lot of kudos to Adam on that one. Honestly, I think that was a song that was a Frankenstein. That was like three other songs. It's a dream waking up into some sort of digital reality, it feels like. Yeah. Your voice is almost not your own voice. Yeah. Yeah, it is a blend of, like,

a bunch of different things. Let's hear it for a second. It's wonderful. I don't know if anyone got that. My Star Wars reference. I got the Star Wars references, Carbonite. Yeah. I don't know.

What is an acolyte? I thought it was a stone, but it's not. It's something else. So it's just a fuck up now. They can read into whatever you want. Yeah, there's the very end. I grew up on the album Discovery, and I got this heavy dose of a blend of,

of Something About Us by Daft Punk. But there's something about us I've got to do. With also their collaboration with Julianne Cosabolic It's in the direction. It's in crush. It feels like this hybrid. Definitely. That was like a huge influence for us

when we were making this song. We kind of like found our way there. Yeah, it'd be fun to sort of unpack the demo in the one day of this song because it ended up being so different. It's really held together by Scotch tape. But yeah, you're dead on. with your influences, for sure.

This just feels really appropriate because, you know, Random Access memories just had its 10-year anniversary, and the influence of the group is infinitely long, but also I think, like, always kind of like an undercurrent. The fact that disco is huge right now. They really sort of kicked off in 2013.

They had such a large influence in modern pop music. But a lot of people don't get the sounds and the sort of, like, Baroque qualities that I really like. I completely agree. Some of your textures here. Oh, thank you. There's other places where there is a sort of

like barokeness. I think we heard it like Oh, go for it. With go for it. Yeah, yeah. That doesn't sound daf punky at all, but there's just complex rich harmonies that are sort of not pop harmonies. They're the sort of older harmonies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a song I feel like that. It's also kind of about like deja vu, and I kind of like

that, you know, you can kind of feel it's cool to hear you say that you can sort of feel the influence of it. I'm a person who really thinks that it's important not to shy away from your influences, and if you're influenced by something, eat it up, and then spit it out because there's a chance

it could be kind of something interesting and I think a lot of people try to like say, oh no, I don't listen to that. But like, I think it's like, that's a part of making music. Oh, we're all borrowing. We have to be. All borrowing. It's a dialogue.

Yeah, and that song is about like kind of deja vu. And sort of it's kind of a cool, right now I'm just sort of realizing. It's kind of a cool that the song is about that and it's kind of like the deja vu of instant crush almost a little bit coming back to life, coming back to life in my life. Oh, cool. Yeah.

There's so many, so there are sounds that I've quoted here, like I hear a bass sound that reminds me of pony. Yeah, I hear sounds that might be a deaf monk. I hear a vocal styling that sounds like Prince, but the record stands on its own as this, I had conceived it after I listened to it as a concept album.

And it doesn't sound like it was intended as a concept album, but there is this sort of flow moving through the temptation of the digital world and the attention economy. And I don't know if there's any conclusion to it at the end. Not really. I think it is just sort of like put your head down, keep going on a kid. That's where we are, isn't it? Sort of. Yeah.

Thank you, Joe. It's been really great. It's been so awesome. Thank you. Switched on Pop is produced by Rianna Cruz, edited by Art Chung, engineered by Brandon McFarlane, community management by Abby Barr, illustrations by Iris Gottlieb, and Nash-Cruhe is our executive producer. Remember of the Vox Media Podcast Network and a production of Vulture, which is a part of New York Magazine. You can subscribe to New York Magazine at nymag.com slash pod. If you like Switched on Pop and you want more, insights going deeper into the songs. You can subscribe to our newsletter. It's linked in our website,

as well as in our show notes. You can find us on social media at Switched on Pop. We're going to be back again next Tuesday. And until then, thanks for listening.