Switched on Pop - Comeback Kids: The Jonas Brothers are Back

Episode Date: March 25, 2019

After a six year hiatus, Nick, Joe, and Kevin Jonas are back with a new single and the stakes couldn't be higher. With each brother attaining a higher plane of celebrity during their time off, the three must achieve pop success or face public humiliation.  How do they do it? With three ingredients that ensure a hit song in 2019: 1) whistle while you work, 2) Homer the funky drummer, and 3) tune in, turn in, drop out.  Songs Featured: Jonas Brothers – SuckerEdward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros – HomeFlo Rida – WhistleDaya – Sit Still Look PrettySharon Jones – How Long do I Have to Wait for you?Bruno Mars – 24k MagicEmily King – Remind MeJason Derulo – Want to Want MeRina Sawayama – CherryPost Malone and Swae Lee – SunflowerSurvey We are conducting an audience survey to better serve you. It takes no more than three minutes, and it really helps out the show. Please take our survey here: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/3X6WMNF Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So please head over to voxmedia.com slash pod survey or click the link in our show notes to fill it out. Thanks, and now onto the show. Welcome to Switched on Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. And I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. Charlie, today, under discussion, the art of the comeback. Oh, this is exciting. Yeah, and this is a high-stakes comeback, because we're talking about a big pop act that has been broken up for like six years now. Oh. Releasing their first new single, and like, they got to come correct, right? It's the grateful dad. It's going to be embarrassing. It's a trio. Oh. Okay, so that narrows it down a bit. Okay. All male. Bill Evans trio. All related.

Oh. And now it's narrows. All recently married to famous celebrities in their own right. Oh, wow. I'll give you the partners. Yeah. Priyanka Chopra. Oh.

Sophie Turner, aka Sansa Stark of Game of Thrones. Danielle, I'm not going to say her last name because that will give it away. Oh. Reality television star. I have no idea. Wow. You are out of the loop and I love it because we are going to bring you in because today we are talking about the Jonas Brothers. Oh, cool.

Yeah. After a long hiatus, Nick, Joe, Kevin, they're delivering the goods and they have to, right? Because if they make this big comeback, especially now that they're all married off to celebrities in their own rights. Yeah, they're megastars. They can't fail.

No. So this is where, on this episode, we're going to explore their new song, Sucker. And we're going to see how a reuniting mega group is going to go through a recipe list, essentially. All the,

what are, what are the key ingredients of making a surefire pop hit in 20? 2019. Awesome. I am so excited. So where do we begin? Let's begin with the chorus of their new song, Sucker. Great.

Ooh, is it like an almond break kind of thing? Yeah. The drums and there's like, this is not, I was expecting like even more bubblegum pop for whatever reason. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense because they are, when you think of the Jonas brothers in their sort of prime incarnation. Yeah.

Yeah. Absolutely. They were like the paragons of bubble gum pop. Yeah. But now they're a little older, a little more mature. Yeah. So they have to retain something of their, like, innocent past while also showcasing their newfound maturity. Sure.

But you're into it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a cool track. Yeah. Good. It's got really good energy.

Yeah. Great. Now, I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit. In the past, who was the lead singer of the Jonas brothers? I'm going to say Nick? And you'd be wrong. I'm just guessing. I have no idea.

It's not Kevin. You do know that. Kevin. It's kind of a trick. Kevin doesn't really sing. He's more of the guitar player. But yeah, Joe is always up front. Now, let's go to the very beginning of this track

because we'll see if that's still the case. We go together. And that falsetto is belonging to Nick Jonas. Yeah. Yeah. So he's, this is interesting. He's like maybe becoming the new leader of the group, perhaps.

He had the most successful solo career music, no? I would say so. Yeah. So I think we're seeing like they're reforming, but there's a new hierarchy. This is like if the Beatles got back together and Ringo were the lead singer. No, not quite.

That would be if Kevin was the least singer. Okay. Okay. So this is really smart, though, the way they start this song, because they're playing into the narrative of the band itself. So now Nick is the new lead singer. Let's go back to the verse.

So he kicks it off, but then Joe is going to come in. Okay. So let's play that clip from the start again. So here's Nick at the start. And they go together. Okay, now here's Joe. Is this a song about climate change? And then check this out.

And then check this out. Ooh. Maybe you know it's obvious. Ooh, I like that. Right. Yeah. Okay. So we get one brother, two brothers.

Brother, it's why. It's really fun, right? It's like, it's musically satisfying, but it's also giving you this narrative of like literally these brothers coming back together, one voice, another voice, and then the two voices in harmony. It's really cool. And the lyric as we go together, birds of a feather. I mean, I think it sounds like it's maybe about a relationship, but it has a double meaning. The brothers are back.

It could be about family. It's basically back streets back all right. Yeah. Never, never a bad idea to reference. Wasn't that their first song? I don't understand. It was one of their first mega hits. And I don't know where they're coming back from.

I think it's ahead and whatever. That's a profound question that we must say for another time. So this song is smart. I think it's a very smartly constructed song. And they're going to pull in a lot of references that are, I think, really deliberately poised to make the song. success in 2019. So I want to pick out a couple of those now. And I want to start with that section that you really liked, the funky drum breakdown section. There's a lot going on here. And the first

thing I want you to pay attention to is the whistle. That is some hot whistling, if I do say so myself. It's good whistling. And not common. I don't feel like we hear a lot of whistling. Oh, see, I disagree, Charles. This is great. Okay, I disagree. I think we do hear it a lot. And in fact, it may be so common that we're not even totally aware

of how much we see it. In fact, I think throwing a whistle on your track in 2019 is like a sure-fire way to get above it. And I think we can trace this back. It's actually been going on for a good decade because if you go back about 10 years,

you had a big hit in a song by Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zeros called home. Whistling is not as good on this one. It's a little out of tune. Yeah, I don't disagree. But I think that's because what we're hearing here is like the start of this trend in the world of indie rock.

It also serves a different purpose. Like that whistle for me is like whistle along. It's okay if you're not totally in tune. Yeah, yeah. Or maybe the Jonas brother sounds like whistle at. Yeah, totally. And we won't play it, but there's also other examples like young folks by Peter Bjorn and John. Right.

Like in the late 2000s, this really belonged to the world of. indie music. But what we see, I think, over the 2010s is like the trend of whistling starts to migrate into the language of pop. So like we can listen to actually, I'm not going to tell you who this is. Let's just play the next clip. So so far we're just hearing acoustic guitar and whistling. Any guesses who the song might be by? I have no idea. What kind describe the kind of artist that might be by? Uh, nickel back comeback. Okay, great. Let's keep listening. Okay, here's the first clue.

Charlie is grimacing so deeply right now. Now Charlie is shaking his head. I don't like it. Why not? That drumbeat, if you're not, done poorly sounds like the first drum beat that a rock drummer learns. It just is very cliche. I'd hate the compressed guitars. The whole thing just sounds very affected. I don't disagree and probably not uncharacteristic for a flow rider track. I was going to actually, I'm not even

kidding. I was like, don't tell me this is flowrida. I was going to say that. Yeah, and you would have been right. This is whistle by flowrida. I don't like it. So we're hearing this like indie, sound now starting to wiggle its way into the world of pop music. As this whistling technique migrates from the world of indie to pop, I think it becomes more and more an essential sound of a pop hit in the late 2010. Let's spin a little song, Sit Still, Look Pretty by Daya. All right, I'll tell you what I heard. Yeah, whistling. Another side, this is another sign. I've heard it on the I never liked, I never noticed before. This, this features whistling very prominently.

I'm going to give you one more. It's Maroon 5 moves like Jagger. Wild. I would have almost, if you would have asked me to hum that, I would have been able to, or to whistle it. Thought it was a synthesizer or something else. Yeah, I mean, it may be, I don't know, this may be a synthesized whistle or like an augmented human whistle.

But it's interesting, you know, like, now let's step back for a second. Like, why the whistle? If you buy my argument here that the whistle is, actually kind of a ubiquitous feature of modern pop hits. Why? Because it's a little odd. It's like, why the whistle? I'll just be direct.

It sounds like crowd pandering. It's like getting everybody to start clapping their hands at a particular moment. It's just a surefire way of getting people to participate. I don't mean to be too cynical about it because musical participation is a beautiful thing. Here's the downside of that's true. Most people can't whistle well. Oh, no. Oh, no.

Yeah, that was rough. I'm sorry everyone had to hear that. And I try it, Charlie. I practice all the time. No, I think you're totally right. And I don't mean to suggest that we are listening to this century's modern masterpiece. I think we're listening to a very savvy pop song here. Not necessarily, you know, one of extraordinary artistic integrity.

But I think you're right. The whistle is a tool to pander. Whistling is like what you do when you're skipping down the street. And it makes you feel good. And it's naive and child. It's simple, right? Like, pot, good pop music. And I've got it.

Okay, so get this. So the whole song opened up. We go back to the Jonas Brothers, right? So the first lyric is like, we go together. Yeah. They start joining each other. Uh-huh. So it's brother, second brother, third brother.

And the whistling is everybody else. It's like everybody is invited to participate. Yeah. I'm totally on board. It's very, yeah. Good comeback. Yeah. If you want to smash in 2019, you want to throw a whistle on there.

What else do you want? Okay, the next thing is actually in that same exact section. It's that those drums that immediately you were like, whoa, I like this. Yeah. Okay, let's spin that one more time. Let's just focus in on that funky drum rhythm. I love it. It's so good, right?

It's one of those drum brakes where you can't find the repeating pattern because there's so much syncopation in it. Yeah. And so you just keep getting pulled into it. Yeah. This is the other ingredient in the recipe for a perfect pop song in the 20s. 21st century. It's it's not a program. It's it's not a software. It's not an instrument. It's a person. A person named Homer Steinweiss. Wait, what? That's not where I thought you were going to go. Yeah. No, it's true. If you want to have a pop smash in 2019, you have to get yourself a Homer Steinweiss.

Wait, where do I buy one? This is, because I was even noting like, that's a long interlude for just, drumming and even live drumming. So Homer must be a live drummer. Homer is indeed a live drummer. And he's the essential session drummer right now. Yeah. In fact, I'd hazard that you've heard him many, many more times than you might think. Because Homer Steinweiss is, among other things, the drummer for Sharon Jones and the Dab Kings.

What? Yeah, that's it. That's beautiful. Yeah. That's how long do I have to wait for you? Rest in power, Sharon Jones. So Homer Steinweiss, drummer for the Dab Kings. But also on tracks like 24-carat magic by Bruno Mars.

Oh, such a good track. Everything that Bruno does is pristine. Every note is placed perfectly. And just like the drum break in the Jonas Brothers, the drumming here, I cannot find the repeating pattern. And it's different here. I think Homer Steinweiss is being like augmented with some maybe electronic drums and some other sounds. Yeah. Oh, certainly.

But you're right. We're hearing some characteristic qualities of his style, like these non-repeating phrases, these sort of off-kilter syncopations, and just something more indescribable, a certain feel, a certain touch, a certain approach that cannot be recreated in a, in a laptop. No, no, it's too, it's both so perfect and so human. Totally. And oh, I love that, Charlie. I think one other place you really hear this is his drumming on one of my favorite songs of all time rehab by Amy Winehouse. Yeah. They tried to make me go to rehab. I said no. Yes, I've been black, but when I come back, no, no. And if my daddy thinks I'm fine, just try to make me go to rehab. Right. Even though just those little fills in between.

I know. Perfect. It seems so simple. And yet there's all these little moments where he just like snags a spare moment of open space. Yep. It's like something you think you've heard before. But then you realize like, no, I've never heard that exact rhythm before. I'm fascinated by this too because his style is so 1950s.

You can certainly hear in Amy Winehouse. But even in the Jonas Brothers, I was noting that as well. It's like both feels like it's got a like breakbeat thing. Totally. but as if done on oldies radio. Yeah, no, it's, it's totally unique. And if you're, you know, a canny pop star in 2019 and you want to, you need a shirt for your, you know, fraternal reunion,

you got to get a Homer Steinweiss. I got to figure out if I can get one of the guitar center. Okay, so just to quickly recap, you need your Homer Steinweiss, you need your whistling, and you need one other element to send your song to the top of the charts. But we're going to talk about that. after a short break. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster?

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So we've heard how whistling and the unique drumming of Homer Steinweiss are two of the elements that the Jonas brothers are using in order to make sure their new song, Sucker, gets to the top of the charts. And there's one other thing they're doing. This is a little more subtle. So I think we're going to have to break down this final ingredient a little more slowly. And actually, I want to start somewhere else. I want to start with our last episode with Emily King. Okay. Something we didn't really go into too deep with her, but something that really stuck with me. She said the hardest part of a song for her to write is the second verse. Do you remember this?

I'm not remembering right now. She said this is the second verse is so hard because you've just peaked with the chorus. Right. That's right. Yeah. You've you've finally given the listener this like triumphant moment and then you have a challenge. You're about to go back to like a less, maybe a less exciting or like a less dynamic part of the song. The verse. Yeah. I remember she had described the chorus is like getting ice cream. So you've just had dessert and now you have to have another meal. Exactly. So this is like a challenging juncture for songwriters. What do you do with that second chorus? Now, let's listen to what Emily King does on her song, remind me. So here's the big, triumphant ice cream chorus. What happened there? There's a moment of silence. Yeah, exactly. You need a transition because the kinetics of the song are going to, they need to be different. You have to have contrast. And hear, rather than, you know, rather than, you know, then sort of going from the highest slope down to like a middle plateau.

She actually goes all the way down to the bottom for a second. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh, I like that. Yeah. Okay, cool. So falling from a cliff into a well or something. Deep mixed metaphors.

No, no, no. But it's like it's retigenous. It's disorienting. Maybe that's what you need in order to get the listener to pay attention. If we go back to our earlier metaphor, we could call it a pallet cleanser. I like it. Let's call this, for lack of a better term, the second verse. dropout? Sure. Okay. I'd like to suggest that Emily King is far from alone in using this

technique in order to sustain interest into the second verse. Because it's exactly what the Jonas brothers do following the first chorus of sucker. I'm a sucker for you. Yeah. Ooh. That's good. Feel suspended. Like you're holding your breath and your hope. Everything's going to be okay. Yeah. Is it the end? It's, yeah, totally. And it's, counterintuitive because you're like, as we've talked about, you're generating all this energy in the chorus and then suddenly you just like pull the rip cord. But it works. In fact, it's so effective that I would argue that this second verse dropout is like another one of these ingredients that you can use to get a sure fire pop hit in the 21st century. So we've heard it in Emily King. We've heard it

in the Jonas Brothers. Let's find some other instances of this second verse dropout. Okay, cool. And I want to start with one of my favorite songs. I mean, more than anything, this is just an excuse to play. Jason DeRullos want to want you. Again? Yeah. This one's a little different. It drops out.

There's like a tiny second of silence. Totally. Millissecond of silence. And then his voice comes in and then the rest of the arrangement comes in. Yeah, yeah. You're totally right. So a variation on the second verse dropout. But I think accomplishes the same thing.

Oh, definitely. Deep drop in energy and then you start to build it back up. It feels like a... Yeah. another track that does this and you know I'm indebted to our listeners for this one for

for turning us on to an artist I'm a big fan of now Rina Sawayama and this is her song Cherry let's check out the chorus The 90s are alive on pop radio Similar to Dorillo Music drops out

Voice is what carries you through You need sort of like there's always sort of like maybe one element Oftentimes it's just a reverb tail but something is bridging. Totally. Once you start to listen, and I really encourage our listeners to do so, it's everywhere.

It's everywhere. I mean, as soon as I started actively searching for it, it was kind of overwhelming. You hear it in Maroon 5, what lovers do. You hear it in Taylor Swift, shake it off.

It's all over the place, the second verse dropout. So this is not a thing of 2019. This is a bubbling up. Good songwriters are doing this all over the place. I guess I should, should rephrase. I'm saying these are some of the techniques you can use to generate a hit in like the 2010s. Sure. More accurate. Not just now. But I think the Jonas brothers are clear,

and their producers are like clearly very clever. They know what's going on. And I think it's no coincidence that another song that is currently sharing the top of the pop charts as of this recording also features a second first dropout. And that's Sunflower by Post Malone. and sway lee. This one's neat. I like this because it drops out, but the arrangement doesn't come immediately back in. The drums wait a moment.

Yeah. And so there really is this take a breath moment. Yeah. It's such an effective technique to overcome what Emily King is talking about, that challenge of like how do you keep an audience's interest in that second verse? Yeah. Now, I want to put a little bracket on our discussion of the Jonas Brothers one sec because I'm doing, I'm very consciously picking sunflower right here. Oh.

Because this is, and this is about you and me, Charlie. Oh, oh, no. We're just going to take a quick moment because I need to ask you something. Did you like that? Oh, I love sunflower. I thought you did. You were smiling. You were grooving.

How do I put this? What's going on? I don't know. Anytime Post Malone comes up, Charlie goes apoplectic. He is, he detests this artist. Or so I thought. And yet here you are, grooving along to Sunflower. So you got to tell me what's going on here.

I feel like this is a case of where I will get hung up in both the, like, the celebrity and narrative around the person and use that to supersede my ear and actually listening to the music. which is the exact reason why we do this project. It's like not get wrapped up in all of the, you know, celebrity journalism. It's really interested in what the music has to say and I got swept away. Which to a certain degree, I think is fair, right? Like, Post Malone has some issues. The way that he represents his participation in hip-hop culture, I think is, let's just say, not particularly woke. The guy doesn't seem to have really done his homework.

and has on and on said some really stupid stuff about the role of hip hop and his participation as a white hip hop artist. And so I'm like, ah, just write that guy off. And, you know, I think throughout pop music, there's all sorts of folks who are complicated personalities of varying degrees. At the same time, I will admit that Post Malone has a totally unique sound that is a blend of really catchy pop hooks. with inane lyrics mostly. But the guy can write a melody, basically. And he's like kind of blending songwriting into a lot of sort of trap.

And when I'm not paying attention and I'm just putting on the radio in the car and a post Malone song comes on, I've been finding myself, not just like bopping my head, but actually like starting to sing the melody. Yeah. So there is these like this conflict of,

I don't like the dude, but the music has hooked me, even despite my best intentions. This is very moving for me to hear. And, you know, I didn't, it's not an accident that I've sort of pivoted us to post-Mallone here. Okay. Because what I'm hearing, okay, because the way that you're describing your post-Malone journey, I think it mirrors my Jonas Brothers journey. Because when I first, you know, delved into the music of this band,

I had so many, I'd already decided how I felt about them. And that was, I didn't like them. And they're not cool and they're lame. And this music is not for me and it sucks. Yeah. And, you know, through studying their music and their history, I did come away with this newfound appreciation for what they do. And I think we could even maybe expand that to like some kind of thesis about pop in general, which is like, okay, so let's step

back for a second. Okay. Our songs, Sunflower and Sucker modern classics. Are we going to be listening to these 100 years from now? Are they going to be like in textbooks? Are they going to be studied alongside Sam Cook's, a change is going to come? I mean, maybe if it's a textbook about spring 2019, then sure. But if it's about the last couple of decades of pop music, I mean, obviously juries out, but probably not.

Right. And it's a good point. You never know. You never know, but I agree, unlikely. And yet I feel like it's still really valuable to dig deeply into these tracks, to understand how they work, even though they are fleeting pleasures. Right. Even though they are disposable, even though we might not be listening to them a few months from now. I think we shouldn't get too stuck on the issue of a song's indelability.

Like it just, is that a word? I don't know, buddy. I'm all in on it. I just meet it up. You can verb anything. We're going to throw it up on like wikwikshiny or whatever. But like I think I think that there is this anxiety within pop music of like, does it matter in the long term? And I like what you're getting at where it's like there is something beautiful about what is momentary, but what's happening right now.

And especially if you're having a comeback that's happening right now, you better be relevant at this particular moment. You've got to capture people's attention. It's kind of like it makes me think of like it's like a flower bloom, right? A pop song, it arrives. It's beautiful. You can water it for a while. It has a life. And then it moves on.

That's a beautiful metaphor, Charlie. And in that spirit, let's recap. What is the sound of a hit pop song in 2019? And we're looking at three ingredients in particular. I'm going to put you on the spot here. Okay. We'll see if I can bake this cake. Okay.

We have got whistle while you work. Whistle, yes. The pandering whistle. There is. One drummer, his name is Homer. Very good. Steinweiss. Homer Steinweiss.

Yeah. You need a Homer Steinweiss. And if it's not Homer, it sounds like live drums with a lot of vivacity in them. But if you can't. No, you need it. You need a home. Yeah. And you can't get it at your local guitar center.

Oh, man. I'll have to get his number. And number three. Number three. Ooh. Okay. So you got to drop out so that there's a place to build back to. You can't give it all the way.

way too soon. Tune in, turn on, drop out. All right. Wait a minute. It would be too bold to say that the dropout songwriting method and the Jonas brother's career are like entirely linked.

Like the Jonas Brothers career is a metaphor of the dropout. It's like I'm reaching too far. I don't even have put the words for it. It's like they had to like they had to like they had to like they had to show up, have their big chorus, and then they had to disappear for a second, so that when they came back, you get really excited about it. That is, whoa, we just have to end the episode. I have to step back and process that, the profundity of what you just said.

That's generous. Let's roll credits. Switched on Pop is a production of Vox Media. Our producer is Gillian Weinberger, Engineering by Brandon McFarland. Our community manager is Sarah Terry. Our executive producers are Nashat, Kerouah, and Allison Rocky. Again, we'd so appreciate it if you go to Voxmedia.com slash pod survey and just take two or three minutes to fill out an audience survey. It means everything to us because it is actually helps us understand how to grow our show, where to take our show.

It helps make the whole thing possible. So it means a lot. Yeah, Voxmedia.com slash pod survey. Beyond that, you can find us on Twitter, Instagram, at Switch on Pop, or send your thoughts to contact at Switchonpop.com. Yeah, we love getting your thoughts and recommendations. We're going to be back again in another week on Tuesday. We've got something really exciting coming up. One of my favorite songwriters, it's going to be spectacular.

It's going to get deep. Until then, thanks for listening.