Switched on Pop - Doja Cat is the new Janet

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

This summer, one singular artist could be heard everywhere from the new Cardi B album to the TikTok charts: Janet Jackson. The incomparable Queen of Pop has had her fingerprints all over pop music for the past few months, and it’s never been more apparent than on Doja Cat’s “Jealous Type.” The lead single from Doja’s new album Vie has all the hallmarks of the Janet Jackson sound, from breathy and percussive vocals to nods to iconic production from Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. This episode of Switched on Pop, we go on a journey guided by Janet, and discover the implicit connections to Doja Cat – the so-called “queen of pop-rap” – in the process. Vote for Switched On Pop in this year's Signal Awards! We're nominated for Best Music Podcast and Best Original Score/Music, linked here. Thank you! Songs discussed: Janet Jackson – Someone To Call My Lover Sabrina Carpenter – House Tour Cardi B, Janet Jackson – Principal (feat. Janet Jackson) Doja Cat – Jealous Type Janet Jackson – What Have You Done For Me Lately Janet Jackson – Nasty Janet Jackson – Feedback Janet Jackson – What About Prince – 1999 Janet Jackson – Throb Janet Jackson – Control Janet Jackson – When I Think Of You Janet Jackson – Go Deep Doja Cat – Cyber Sex Doja Cat – Rules Doja Cat – Boss Bitch Doja Cat – Woman Doja Cat – Agora Hills Janet Jackson – Let’s Wait Awhile Janet Jackson – Escapade Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier, CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, O-DU replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

That's why over thousands of businesses have made. made the switch. So why not you? Try Odu for free at Odu.com. That's ODOO.com. Everyone, before we get started, Switched on Pop is nominated for two Signal Awards for Best Music Podcast and Best Original Score. In order to win, we need your support. Please go vote for the Signal Awards. The link is in our show notes. Welcome to Switched on Pop. I'm producer Rianna Cruz. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. So Charlie, Nate, the summer of 2025 has come to a close. Stop. No.

I know. It's unfortunate. I had a really great summer. I'm sad to see it go. It's a PSL season. You've got an orange hat on. It's happening. Autumn is here. It's real. I look like a pumpkin. It's true. Summer's over, but I'm here to make a bold claim about the past three months. I think summer 25 was sort of a Janet Assange. I'm talking about the one, the only, Janet Jackson. Love Janet.

The Janissance. I mean, first, there was the newfound virality of her 2001 tracks, Someone to Call My Lover, to kick off the summer. Beautiful sample there, A Ventura Highway by America. I love that guitar sound. Very summary. So we had that earlier in the summer. And then you had noted to me, Charlie,

that you heard inklings of Janet on Sabrina Carpenter's latest. record, man's best friend, like on the track, House Tour. Much cheekier than a Janet Jackson song, but it has all of that 80s synthesized sounds that Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis and Janet Jackson were dreaming up in Minnesota, you know, around the era of Janet Jackson's control record. You've got those Minnesota-style synth stabs. You've got the giant 80s electronic drums and just an unbridled optimism. That's Janet Jackson, for me anyway. I like that.

So we had those two examples. But recently, we even had a Janet feature on Cardi B's latest record, Am I the Drama. What? As Cardi sampled the pleasure principle for her song, Principal. It's the principal, the principal. It's like me. This niggas out here praying for a bitch like me. Hey, let me to the trap.

Then I meet your mother. You know a bitch is bad at what she with the fucking. Come on. The Janissance continues. The Pleasure Principle from 1986 Control, the album that I think it's the most important record of like the next 20 years of pop music and still doesn't get nearly enough credit for how important it was. But I think the most direct example of Janet Isom this summer can be found in Doja Cat's lead single for her new album V. That's the track, Jealous Type. It got me doing a little Bobby Brown two step to that John.

Bobby Brown, who made New Jack Swing music, which was directly inspired by Janet. Jackson's control. It's all connecting. You know, the first time I listen to Jealous Type, you know, it's not performing super well on the charts, but I knew in my brain was one of the best pop songs I've heard this year. It's simple yet so catchy. And I'm also a huge Janet fan, so I feel like the two go hand in hand. And, you know, Janet's been referred to as the Queen of Pop. Doja's been referred to as the Queen of Pop rap. So I think the two might be closer together, then, you know, the average listener could imagine. I love this theory, Rihanna.

It's not necessarily the first thing you'd think of when you think of Doja Cat, but clearly from Sabrina to TikTok to Cardi B, Janet is having a moment. So if we listen deeply to this track, where might we find the janitisms, as you call it though? Well, that's what we're going to explore today. What I'd like to do is see how Doja Cat is using Janet as a blueprint for her music and persona, and I'd like to look at jealous type and unpack its brilliance. Let's do it.

So first, I'd like to start by looking at what feels like to me the most obvious connection between jealous type and Janet's catalog. The thing that struck me when I heard Doja Cat on this song, she's kind of singing like Janet. The vocal affectations to me feel extremely similar right from the jump. Check it out. When I think Janet's voice, she's incredibly percussive and exacting with her rhythm. which we're going to hear obviously in Doja, who's one of the great contemporary rappers.

I'm in complete agreement. First, I want to mention Doja's delivery. I really like how she sings the opening lines, specifically the lyric could be torn between two roads, and I just can't decide. The way she sings it, it sounds kind of like a vocal drum fill. It bounces on top of the beat. The only thing that's missing is like a, we need some like exasperation. Yeah.

We'll get some of that later, I think. And lyrically, very Doja Frost right here. Right? Doja Frost? What? Two roads diverge in a wood. Oh, my gosh. That's good.

That's good, Nate. Wow. A well-read man. Very literary of you. One could do worse than to be a swinger of New Jacks. Okay. So you were saying, I think you're saying something about the percussive rhythm of her voice, Rihanna. Yeah.

I think part of the percussiveness comes from Doja's rhaps. Abapping ability. Good flows are percussive and driving, but also playful. And Doja's really great at that. You could hear it in a rap later in the song. So that's the other Janet thing. We need to hear some like in breaths and out breaths. Yeah. Like all the breaths are kept in there because Janet

uses the breath like it is a percussive instrument. Yeah. I feel like we need to hear Janet now, though. Yeah, you could hear it on a song like nasty. Offa. Yes. How do you notate that? You can't just learn that song from the lyrics.

Yeah. There's all of this extra. Oh. She's not a belter. She's not going to give you some soaring, diva-esque vocal performance. She's going to be in the pocket rhythmically in terms of every phrase, and she's going to put her voice kind of as another element in the overall mix. It's like very effective for dance music because the voice becomes part of the tapestry that locks you into the rhythm of the song. And her voice works in tandem with the drums in the baseline, creating an extra layer of percussiveness.

It's all over control. Nasty's on the album control. but it's also on a song like What Have You Done for Me Lately? From the same record. Janet kind of turns her voice into like a point sometimes when she sings. Like on top of the beat here, what have you done for me lately?

Like it really drives also the lyrics home because of the delivery. Like it's very direct. You feel like you're kind of like being attacked a little bit. And it's stunning to me that this isn't more of a reference. That percussive nature, we heard some of it on early Britain.

for sure. I'm entirely speculating here, but there may be a reason why it kind of went out of vogue. Maybe, as all things do, there's just, you know, fads eventually fade. But I wonder if vocal tuning might have changed how people started to sing. Because

when we sing into a microphone, all of the percussive moments, all of our consonants, those are hard for vocal tuning software, auto tune, melodyne, to grab onto. And you can get weird artifacting with them. Those tools have improved significantly in recent years to be able to adjust for those

moments. But I wonder if it made it harder to tune a vocal and maybe people stopped doing it as much. Pure speculation. I like that theory. It's a compelling theory, check. There's bits and pieces of this percussiveness on jealous type, right? Like, we heard it in the rap when Charlie pointed it out. But there's also little subtle nods later in the song. Doja does this weird little hiccup breath. Okay, and the outro of the song that's very blink and you'll miss it, but it feels like a nod to me of that vocal flare. There's a little... Yes, exactly. It's like, do, do, do, do. Can we hear that one more time?

I heard it at that time. Is it an inhale or an exhale? Kind of bolt. I believe it's an inhale. But it's buried in the mix and it feels a little swallowed, but it's like a wink, you know, a little like subtle, like if you recognize it, like... They know what they're doing. I would say so because there's another element to Doja's vocal on jealous type that evokes what I think arguably Janet is more known for. Jana has this beautiful airy quality to everything that she sings.

And even on a production that is a little bit more crowded, a little bit more intense, her voice is still light. Like I'm thinking of a personal favorite of mine feedback from 2008. So late career, Janet, we still have that breathy vocal over a beat that's a little bit more contemporary. Leave it to Riana Cruz to be the Janet Jackson completest who's going to reference late Janet Jackson material. Not that it's not important, but let's be real. Like her biggest impact was in the earlier material. Yeah. She's consistent throughout, isn't she?

Absolutely. I'm going to get on my soapbox right here and say discipline, Janet's album from 2008. It's one of her best. Bangers like Feedback. Rock with you. Can't be good. Come on. Janet's vocal, on feedback and otherwise, captures both being unbothered but also being intentional.

That's not to say that Janet doesn't come on tracks like mad as hell, right? Like there's songs like, What About? Off the Velvet Rope where she's like on it's spitting. Both voices right there. Exactly. I was fin of say, like you see this duality of her doing this soft and delicate thing and then launching into this direct brash percussion. percussive again vocal you know and that duality is also how Doja

sings her songs she invokes that on jealous type so the vocal technique of Doja Cat seems to be clearly referencing the many sounds of Janet Jackson now I feel like we can get to what Charlie desperately wants to talk about

the production how might this classify when the drums the scents etc as being part of the Janice. I mean, it's the whole thing. Yeah. Like, the sound of the 1980s

can be attributed to so many people, but I do think that Janet Jackson's control is one of the absolutely most important, right? So, contextually, we have to know that Janet earlier in her career didn't start as a musician. She started as an actor in the Jackson family, youngest child,

and does go off to make two albums that just really don't hit it off. And people kind of assume music's not going to be her thing. Jimmy Jim and Terry Lewis grew up in Minneapolis. They had been in Prince's band the time.

They got kicked out of the time because they were two-timing Prince and were doing some production on the side for some other artists. So they're offered this list of all these artists. One of the names is Janet Jackson. And they're like, cool, let's work with Janet.

So Janet, like, is just like 19 years old. She decides to leave the family management, go to Minneapolis, partner up with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, and tell her real story. and say that she's taking control of her narrative. And they form one of the most important creative collaborations and I think really sort of take the sound of Minneapolis

and some of the sounds of prints and push it into whole new directions of pop music. Those are the same sounds that producer Jack Antonoff of Jealous Type still uses on all of his records. It's the Lindrum, one of the most important drum machines in pop music history that uses samples instead of analog circuits. It doesn't sound like a real drum.

It sounds like a Lynn drum. The Oberheim, OBX, and OBXA synthesizer is the sound of like every Prince track. I don't know. Name a song, like 1999. There's the Lind drum, and there's those big sense steps. And let me correct myself. That's actually the Lynn L.M-1 drum machine,

the precursor to the Lynn drum, just in case the music producer heads out there are going to get mad me. Yeah, I thought that was the case. I'm glad you've corrected your son. Yeah. Great, great. So the Oberheim sound, the Moog bass, obviously as well, a sound that is enjoyed by every producer of all time. But certainly, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, and Jack Antonoff.

So they're using all of these sounds. And it's not just the actual devices. It's how they're processed, how they're presented. The synth stabs are bright. They're brassy. They are in your face. The bass is often presented in a really wide stereo. image. They put like stereo chorus effects on. The drums are processed and pitch down in really

creative ways. And the snare, of course, is going to have some strange nonlinear reverb that doesn't exist anywhere on planet Earth except for in some digital reverb unit. And that outer space quality was the sound of control. It's the sound of jealous type. If I might translate your producer ease into plain English, Charlie, the oral quality of a lot of the sound. you're describing is generally bright, sharp, yes, popping. It's very stark in a lot of ways. That lindrum is not like a regular snail.

It's very staccato and intense. And that matches all those vocal qualities we were discussing. Rianna's description of Janet's voices pointed, you know. That's sort of complimentary to the synthetic sound world you're describing. And it was also a rejection of the sound of the 70s, which was often very dry,

unprocessed, dead-sounding drums, often a super-close mic. The 80s was in so many ways a response to what came before, and so much popular music today is also a response to the 80s. Things became much duller later on. I mean, you think about so much hip-hop production of the 2000s was like this underwater track of just like, where you could someone could sing over the top. Yeah.

And so when we bring back the brashness of this 80s production, We know exactly where we are. The timbrel signatures of it are so clear. And I want to say a word that neither of you have said yet that I think encapsulates the production of Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Funky. Ah, yes. I would say funky. And I think this gives me an opportunity to bring up yet another one of my favorite Janet songs, the Jimmy Jim and Terry Lewis production Throb off of 1993's Janet.

The drums are so loud. They're in your face. We have this out-of-tune saxophone doing these staccato like, boop-b-b-b-p-p-p-p-p. It's awesome. Maybe not out-of-tune, but certainly, like, hitting some chromatic non-cord tones. Rihanna, you called it funky,

but you're missing an important other half. Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis described their music, quote, Funky Bottom and the Pretty Top. Yo. Right? Terry Lewis is the bass player. He's that funky bottom.

Yeah. Jimmy Jam is the keyboard player He's the pretty top You know they better not take this out of context Tarley I think I've seen something like that on Grindr Or this Switched on Pop fan fiction maybe Enough We know we know who's here

We don't need to say it out loud It's okay I'm gonna rope you guys in I'm gonna bring it back to jealous type Much like the vocals There's a bounce and groove to the production Like we've been saying Because it's inspired by Jimmy Jim and Terry Lewis

Layers upon layers upon layers of percussion and synthesizers. It's crazy. Every time I listen to this, I pick out a new layer of sound. It's nuts. She even brought out Kenny G. to play sax on this song

when she performed it at the VMAs, perhaps, as a tribute to the sax we heard on Throb just now. Oh, I was thinking, like, what does this have to do with Janet? Yeah. I was going to say there's a saxophone that comes in in the latter half of the song. And that belt from Doja in the outro.

So many different voices, so talented. And the sax playing here is from players in bleachers, which leads way more Bruce Springsteen than it does Janet Jackson. It's also worth pointing out, Y2K is another producer on the track as well. So the vocals and the production are two things that we hear on Jealous Type that beckons these larger comparisons to Janet Jackson. I want to talk a third more ephemeral quality that speaks to both our artists, but you're going to have to wait until after the break.

Discipline. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier, CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more.

And the best part, O-Doo replaces multiple. expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odu for free at Odu.com. That's ODOO.com. So we've already talked about how Doja implements her vocal affectations and production to evoke the queen of pop.

But there's also something a little bit more nebulous happening here, one that extends beyond the song and into Doja's whole career. And I would say that is the Doja Cat persona, the Doja Cat character, is one that I find to be essentially a copy of Janet's whole thing. And I say copy affectionately because both access this delicate balance of empowered sexuality and sensitive femininity. I want to start with the idea of empowered sexuality. It's a core part of Janet's whole thing since day one. We talked about the story behind her album Control. And I want to look specifically at the lyrics that kick off that album that introduced Janet to the world. This is a story about control. My control. Control of what I say. Control of what I do.

And this time I'm going to do it my way. Because it's all about control. And I've got lots of it. Wow. Mike dropped. Yeah. This is all about control and I've got lots of it. What a way to kick off your debut album, my goodness.

Not debut. This is her third album. The debut of the Janet Jackson image. The real Janet. This is her debuting herself. Like, I am not an entertainer. This is the real Janet. I'm taking control of my career and extends that metaphor into sexual empowerment as well.

Yeah. And that theme of control goes throughout Janet's whole discography. You know, we have that album titled Control. Then that moves to the revolutionary messaging on Rhythm Nation. Then there's the sexy house songs on Velvet Rope. Like one of my favorites, go deep. I don't know how to explain it other than like sexy, empowered lady in control. Like, it's simple as that.

Like, I listen to that song. And I'm like, wow, this is hot. No comment from either of you? I think we're just sitting here blushing listening to this song. Yeah, that's fair. It's not thinking music. What can I say? I just know that MoG bass does something deep inside me. Doja, in comparison, does not have the same meta-narrative of control that Janet has, right?

And part of it is that her career is so new. But Doja zeroes in on the sexuality aspect, the empowered sexuality, as a cornerstone of the Doja Cat persona. You know, Doja came on the scene with the infamous moo, you know, the bitch on a cow song, right? Which was silly and facetious. What a great turn of a career. I mean, to start just as like a meme troll artist and look what we're doing now. Spectacular. Didn't she have French-R-R-R-N up her nose, as I recall? She did.

That was a classic. But soon after that, she exploded with a bunch of take-charge sex-positive hits, like the track Cybersex. You see me in my room. It's even a little bit of the things I do I want to get freaky on camera I freakie on camera Even a little bit of cursive singing in their Indie Girl voice

The song came out in 2019 Hot Pink It's an article of its time I would say But certain songs I mean stand the test of time I like rules because it also carries This message of empowered sexuality Say play up my pussy But don't play up my emotions

So I heard of So I'm not going to give you Want to shake the ass I'm going to do the shit in slow motion You got a whole lot of cash in Nick You know I won't it So I heard bass and drums And

I'm not going to give you any deep lyrical analysis here, I'm sorry No, I don't think we need I think it speaks for itself It's on point And you know I want to evoke Doja's Harley Quinn tie-in track The song Boss Bitch

Which I think is notable Because it uses bitch in a positive way. And I know I'm not going to get much out of the both of you in this part. So I'm just going to throw the music at you. Empowerment. Actually, Rihanna, when I hear those lyrics,

it reminds me of the 17th century composer Archangelo Corelli, who famously wrote his boss bitch aria as one of the first How could I forget? You know, opera seria of that era. So don't count me out

for the lyrical analysis. You're still in it. I want to compare a song like boss bitch to nasty by Janet. Has the same vibe. Because prophecy is my middle name. My last name is controlled. No, my first name ain't baby.

It's Janet. It's Jackson if you're nasty. Nasty. Nasty. Yeah, she takes the metaphor of being in control of her life into the bedroom and a question of who is in control of who. Exactly. That's the lyrical analysis I was looking for. Perfect. We put a bow on it. Miss Jackson, if you're nasty. But that leads me into the sensitive femininity of both artists, the other side of the persona. I think of the song that led off Doja Cats, aptly titled Planet Her, the track Woman.

The feminine nature of the song is obviously at the forefront, right? It's called woman. She repeats woman over and over and over again. But it's different from Doja Cat. There's a sensitive side there. And other Doja tracks feature this other side of the coin. It goes back to the delivery of the vocals. Thinking of a track like Streets or Agoa Hills,

Doja delivers those choruses softly and delicately. Here's how she sounds on Agora Hills. So just as the vocal can be aggressive, or gentle, the entire emotional state of the song can lean in either one of these directions as well. Yeah, and throughout Janet's catalog, you see that happen. It reminds me of a song on control, like, let's wait a while. Let's read, let's wait a nice ballad and in great contrast what we heard in control. The song is talking about abstinence, so another way of asserting control.

So in this mix of sexuality and sensitivity, we get what makes both of, of there, as in Doja Cat and Janet Jackson's, songs so compelling. I think the best tracks from both artists tow that line between both sides. One of my favorite Janet songs, it's on the radio all the time here in LA, the song Escapade off of Rhythm Nation. And I think it handles that divide really well. As the song moves into the chorus, the track shifts in tone slightly and we get both that sexuality, but also that sensitive side. So, to bring it full circle because I said the best tracks from both artists do it, the two worlds are also joined on Doja Katz, jealous type. So in the delivery of this pre-chorus, she's soft and sensitive as she sings, you know, invoking the femininity of her music. But the

instrumental is brash and it's forward and the lyrics emphasize the empowerment. I made a choice. I'm not your toy she sings. She's confident in her decisions. And so I think I'm drawing larger comparisons here. I find both artists to be tethered through their personas. I hate to say Doja is the new Janet, but I don't know, this record, she's kind of putting that out to the world. I mean, if Janet would put out another record, which is long overdue, Janet would be the new Janet. Always. But I'm hearing it. I love the idea of Doja paying tribute to Janet on this album. I mean, Janet is a huge hitmaker, a force in the history of popular music.

And at the same time, it feels like she's always overlooked, right? She's overshadowed by her more famous siblings. She was kind of blackballed by the entertainment industry to a degree after Justin Timberlake exposed her body parts during the maybe 2003 Super Bowl, I want to say. Like, she hasn't had maybe the career she should have. So seeing her have this renaissance moment now feels really meaningful. Yeah. It was the 2004 Super Bowl. Her career nosedived afterwards.

Justin Timberlake, he went on to have a very successful career highlighting some of the overwhelming inconsistencies and sexism within the business. And she has definitely do so much more credit than we give her. So there's a larger question here of why Janet, right? And why Janet now? Why is there a Janet Sons, as I said earlier in 2025? And I think there's something to know about how Janet's music and character cuts through the bullshit, so to speak. We don't really have many pop stars that stand out and serve as a model for the current industry. You know, Janet was revolutionary in her direct sexuality.

So maybe invoking Ms. Jackson in 2025 is a balm to the nondescript nature of today's pop stars. And granted, jealous type isn't performing super well. As we record this, it's currently a 49 on the Hot 100, but Doge's new album is out. And I feel as though history will treat this song well because over time, Janet's influence only seems to grow. I want to know what other Janetisms we've missed. Like we talked about Cardi B, right?

We talked about Sabrina Carpenter. I think she's out there as an influence in so many ways. We just named a few of them. I want to hear more of them. Let us know what you're hearing. Hit us up on social media at Switched on Pop. Tell us where you're hearing the Janet Sound. Switched on Pop is produced by Rana Cruz, edited by Lissa Soap, engineered by Brandon McFarlane,

illustrations by Iris Gottlieb, our theme music, which is currently nominated for a Signal award for Best Original Score. Let's go. By Zach Tenario and Jossi Adams of Arc Iris. Go vote for that on the Signal Awards. We'll put a link of the show notes, perhaps, Charlie. Yeah, we'll link in the show notes, definitely. Absolutely.

Sweet. We are also nominated as a show for Best Original Music Podcast for the Signal Awards. Please go vote. We're a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network, production of Vulture, which is part of New York Magazine. You can subscribe at NYMag.com slash pod. We'll be back again next week talking about what is like to be in the life of a showgirl, I believe.

It's that time of year already? I feel like she announced this album like last week. Keeps on happening. Strap in, Rianna. All right. Here we go. We'll see you next Tuesday. And until then, thanks for listening.

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