Switched on Pop - Dua Lipa’s Disco Fever

Episode Date: January 14, 2020

Dua Lipa remembers the disco era in her hit “Don’t Start Now.” What may sound like just another dance floor track, upon deeper listening unfolds as a celebration of the genre. References to Gloria Gaynor, Chic, Giorgio Moroder and The Bee Gees are all waiting here for the curious listener to uncover. But so are the Italian and Daft Punk inspired bass lines. Yet the song is more than just one big disco ball cliché. It is brilliantly written too. We asked our listeners to help us highlight the best moments of the song as this is a song that continues to sound anew upon each playback. In 2020, the influence of Disco is still very much alive and Dua Lip’s “Don’t Start Now,” written with Caroline Ailin, Emily Warren and Ian Kirkpatrick, is a shining example of a great contemporary disco track.  Songs Discussed Dua Lipa - Don’t Start Now Gloria Gaynor - I Will Survive Chic - Good Times Giorgio Mordoer - Baby Blue The Bee Gees - You Should Be Dancing The Michael Zager Band - Let’s All Chant MFSP - TSOP Todd Terje - Strandbar Piano Fred Falke and Alan Brav - Intro Daft Punk - Voyager Ryan Paris - Dolce Vita Madison Avenue - Don’t Call Me Baby Marvin Gaye - Got To Give It Up Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switched on Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. It's a new year, a new decade, and while lots seems to be falling apart, I'm a firm believer that expressing joy is part of how we build the world that we want to see. And so today, it's time to walk away from the last decade. It's time to put on our dancing shoes, step out on the dance floor, and take a request.

Okay. Hey, Charlie and Nate, this is Will in Oakland. I wanted to call your attention to the very fun new Duolipa song, Don't Start Now, which I've had on repeat since I first heard it last month. It's got pew-poo noises, cowbell, even some oos. But that said, I think she's really picking up on several waves of disco revival, especially European ones. Anyway, there's a lot more I'm sure you all can pick up on,

so I'd love to hear the switched-on pop take on this tune. Thanks. First of all, I really respect Will for using the crew. Correct technical terminology of PiuPew and OOO. It was an OOA. OOA. Sorry. Yeah. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. You need to be very specific with this kind of clinical language. We're going to get into this because he went through a whole of masterclass in this song in just a few seconds. Duleepa, she is one of the biggest stars right now. She had a hit new rules that ruled the charts.

This song is actually a class. collaboration with the same songwriters and producers of New Rule. So this is with Caroline Ailin, Emily Warren, who we've spoken with on the show, and producer Ian Kirk. We got to listen to the track. Let's do it. Wow, yeah, that is fun. And I hear already what Will from Oakland is talking about. There's like a kaleidoscope of textures just in that little excerpt we listen to.

Yeah, this song for me is a memory palace of disco. And not just disco, but also new disco. At its core, the song is about overcoming heartbreak, confidently stepping out onto the dance floor, maybe with a new partner, while pushing your pass out of sight, out of mine, and having a great time. I think that's a great message for the new decade.

Word. And I love that it pairs that message with the genre of disco. A genre that we've actually, frankly, somewhat overlooked on our show. I mean, it's there throughout. We did a fun piece on Disco Demolition Night with, like, a Selkine years ago.

Yeah. But Disco's influential. is actually truly hard to overstate. In the 1970s, it was the dominant form of popular music for about five years. And a lot is reported about the sort of excess, the drugs, the party culture, the commercialization through films like Saturday Night Fever. But I think the other side is also really interesting, the context of the music as a catharsis for economic depression, a way to let dance be a reprieve from the things that are letting people down. and especially as a safe space for a lot of people of color and queer people. Yeah.

So I thought what would be fun today is to see how, don't start now, uses the sounds of disco and disco revival to both create an entirely new composition, but celebrate everything that's come before. Cool. That sounds fun. I could only skim the surface of this song and had to recruit some of the ears of our listeners. I want to go back to Will because some of his insights on the essential sounds of disco, we couldn't pass over without going a little bit deeper.

Here's what Will had to say again about the disco references. I've heard radio hosts call it a disco song, which is definitely there with the funky bass line, the Nile Rogers style guitars, references to Gloria Gaynor's, I Will Survive, and a lot more. It's got pew-pew noises, cowbell, even some o-o-os. All right, we got funky bass, Gloria Gaynor, Pew-Pews, Latin percussion, and OOas. Let's hear what he's talking about. So the first part, the funk.

funky bass and guitar. I think you can hear a clear connection between Nile Rogers, as he points out, is the guitarist and founder of the band Sheik and the important sort of late disco bands and had a revival in the 2010s with being the guitarist for daft punk. Sheik's song, Good Times, I think shares a lot in terms of its funky bass and guitar lines with Don't Start Now. Yeah, yeah, I'm hearing that. Man, something about those rhythms just go directly. to my ass cheeks.

And unconsciously, my glutes just start kind of like pulsing in time. It is bouncing in its chair right now. That might be too much information for the radio public, but I got to be real. I mean, if you want to start 20-20 off on the right note. That is the purpose of these tracks. But there's also the message of overcoming adversity. Will points out the connection to Gloria Garner.

One of them is important disco stars. And, of course, everyone knows the song, I will survive. Yes. Just one of many lyrical references. I love that moment because, you know, you think, well, maybe she's just talking about getting through a relationship, but she emphasizes that survive you with backing harmonies,

and clearly it's like a nudge nudge. We know our disco. Yeah, it's like finding salvation on the dance floor. So those are some of the more maybe on the nose references. How about those pew pews? Take me there to the heart of the dance. Pew, Pew. I wasn't exactly sure what

was talking about here. I went back and listened to the track, and I think you can get a, we get a pew at the end of the first verse and just don't start now. A solitary pew. One pew. It's a one pew shot.

There's a few pews later on as well. Okay. Where do the pews come from? I got nothing. Popular synthesizer technique that was used quite a bit by George Marauder who was one of those sort of icon producers of disco. Yeah.

Here's his song, Baby Blue, Pew, Pew, Pew. It's not actually called Baby Blue Pew, Pew, Pew, but I'm going to call it that. Excellent Pew detective work there, Chuck. I hear it, yeah. I did have some help from some folks on Reddit on that. Right on. Okay, we heard some Latin percussion. This is an important part of disco.

Something that I hadn't really considered enough in researching this piece. was about how disco isn't just a genre. It is such an amalgamation of the things that came before it. The funk bass and chic style Nile Rajner guitar, that we can hear in plenty of funk that was coming before. Latin percussion is through and through a part of disco, and I think we could relate to the sort of boogaloo revival, Latin revival that was happening in the 1960.

So there's all these other musics that come into it. Let's hear some Latin percussion in Don't Start Now. We're going to hear that in the chorus where it goes, we have like that woodblock effect. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Or a cowbell maybe? I don't know which sound that is. It's a sharp percussive, yeah, somewhere between a woodblock cowbell clave.

Hard to say. I'm sure some very talented percussionist will let us know. Yes, I look forward to it. You can hear Latin percussion through so many disco tracks. I thought it would be appropriate to reference. The Bejee's, their song, You Should Be Dancing, has an amazing Latin percussion break. I feel like the Latin percussion is this really important element that provides much more rhythmic interest than the underlying kick drum. That's one thing that actually Will didn't mention probably because it's so obvious is that typically in disco you're just getting a four to the floor kick on every beat.

The Latin percussion adds a little bit more life to it. Some ticcation. Yeah, totally. Okay. I'm with you. Okay, so we had one other very important technical term that Will mentioned. U-U-U-U-U-U-I. I think it was an O-A-O-A.

O-A. That sounds very unfunkey, but go ahead. Here it is, and don't start now. U-U-E-I. Yeah. I went back and forth with Will on this one, and I was like, well, what are you talking about? And it's like, I don't know. It's just like, you know it's a part of disco.

And so I did some sleuthing. and I found the Michael Zager band's Let's All Chant, which was a hit during the disco era. All right, wow, wow, Will. Will came correct. And at this point, you're thinking like, wow, the people that made this song really knew what they were doing. They're not just like, let's make a disco-esque song.

They're going to just weave it with every little element of the most popular disco elements. There's one other element of disco music that we would be remiss if we did not mention. I'm going to let you guess. Hold your guess. I want to go to a listener, Anna, who has a favorite moment of the song,

which I think highlights the importance of this other ethereal. This mystery element. Yeah. Okay, okay. Hi, my name's Anna, and I live in Los Angeles. My favorite part about Duelipa's Don't Start Now is definitely the chorus and the bridge into it, just the way the music slows down,

and you have the little cowbell, and, oh, she just gets it. It gets you into the vibe. I think what Anna might have been hearing in this transition section. Well, let's just hear it. Okay. You got a huge grin on your face. Yeah.

I'm just, I'm pleased because it confirmed my guess. We need a string orchestra somewhere in this track. And we get it right before the chorus hits, this angular, funky little jagged unison string line that, as Anna says, just kind of puts us in the vibe for that chorus to hit. very cool. There were many reasons why disco eventually faded out, but one of them was the cost of production.

First of all, you already had a whole Latin percussion section going on. Right. Now you need to add a string orchestra. Yeah. It's very expensive to make disco. One of the best examples of the sort of heyday of that period was the song T-S-O-P. Do you know that song?

Oh, the Sound of Philadelphia. The Sound of Philadelphia. By MFSB? That's right. Yeah. Motherfather, sister, brother. Yeah, this is symphonic. I mean, this is massive.

I think it's part of what really elevated the experience on the dance floor. It felt like you were flying high, maybe because of some other things that were going on in the discotheque. But I think also because of the string elements. Like, it really feels like in this enormous space. And it's the most celebratory orchestra. Yeah. The other thing that this section made me think about was how disco provided popular music. One of the most important things that we take for granted,

which is the remix. I don't know if you know this, but disco DJs, they wanted to be able to spin songs for longer periods of time. And so there would be actual DJ imprints of a song that would be longer versions of the track so that you could actually keep people dancing on and on and on. And I think that the sort of little breakdown element

in the Dua track almost feels like a remix of the song hinting at that remix culture that was spawned out of disco DJing. strings, vocal ad lids, little hints of the original chorus, and then this bridge, but it's almost like a breakdown, fades even further. Strings and we're back. It's like a little remix within the track. Yeah, with some very modern elements as well. Oh, absolutely. Well, that's Will's other point, is that this song, many people have been calling this a disco song, but it's not just disco. I was saying that we can't overstate the importance of disco's influence upon popular music and that they're very, been so many revivals of that sound, but there's also just been continuations and permutations of the sounds that were themselves amalgamations of things that had come before. Right.

And so he points to a couple of more contemporary things that he's hearing in the track. I'm going to go back to Will for a second. I think she's really picking up on several waves of disco revival, especially European ones, from more recent Scandinavian new disco artists like Todd Terrier and some of Robin's recent work to 90s French Touch house producers. To name just one example, if you compare the baseline and don't start now to intro by Fred Falk and Alan Brax or Voyager by Daft Punk, you'll find a ton of overlap. Wilts is Ph.D. and Dual Lipa over here. That's amazing. It's amazing. The first thing that I caught was the Todd Tierier connection. This is his song Strand Bar. Yeah. I'm glad none of us know how to correctly pronounce his last name. At least we're not alone.

That's so great. Right? The piano sound from disco sort of goes through. a digital hybridization through house music and becomes extremely percussive and sequenced. I think we can hear a little bit of that in the Duolipa piano. Yep, it's there. The other thing you pointed out was the bass sound, and there's definitely some hints of some contemporary bass production in this. So here's Doolipa's bass. Okay.

This is 100% the first thing that pulled me into this song. Oh, it's so great. The power of the octave in disco and in this track. The bass just going, bum bum, bum, boom, same note, just. You know she does some of that and her melody as well. Oh, yeah. This is a very octave-driven track.

I think that gives a sense of energy and propulsion. Will pointed us to intro by Fred Falke and Alan Brex, as well as Voyager by Daft Punk. My feeling is the Duolipa is actually a little bit more a true electric base. It feels more like the older style. But there are some other references that I caught on, too. Did you notice how this song actually has two entirely different bass sounds? Enlighten me.

This is one of my favorite things about this song. It's one of these things where, like, there's a subtle change. You can't quite recognize what it is. And then you zoom in. You're like, oh, this song just went into an entirely different decade. Base one. That's a subtle, but noticeable. difference. You want that one more time?

I would, I would. Electric bass. Digital bass. Or synthesized bass, I should say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm hearing. It's a little fatter, a little squishier. So that is the famous sound of most likely the Roland Juno 60 keyboard, which was a very famous 80s synthesizer that was particularly popular amongst Italo disco performers.

And we can hear that same sound on a track. like Dolce Vita by Ryan Paris. There it is. Squishy. I don't know how to say it. It's a squishy bass. Do you like the squishy bass? I do, yeah.

I mean, it's very, it really conjures a moment for sure. Like a little later in the disco era. Exactly. So we've gone from the 70s into the 80s. Yeah, interesting. And one of the effects that that sound has is as we go from the verse,

which uses the electric bass, that sound is mono. It's happening right in the 70s. of the stereo field. It feels like it's just like it's happening right to us. But the synthesized bass uses an effect called a chorus

and it widens the sound. So as we move into the pre-chorus and they use this wider synthesized bass, it feels like the track is opening up so that eventually we're going to get even bigger sounds, strings. And so it's a production technique which is used a lot in pop music,

which I don't think we've ever talked about, but how you use a sense of spaciousness, whether you're in a sort of narrow space or a much broader open space, you can use the movement of space in a song to heighten energy throughout. And so a really subtle but I think potent way of propelling the song forward.

So we've gone through the way that Don't Start Now uses the sound of disco and also borrows from the sound of new disco and disco revivals. It's not the only song to have done this, of course. There are so many to be named, but we had a listener that wanted to call out one really important song to them. Hey Darrell from Sydney, Australia here.

I love Jewelieper's song, Don't Start Now, as it's reminiscent of the type of Eurodisco you'd hear on Eurovision and on the huge Eurovision tragic. The song reminds me of our own Princess of Pop, Kylie Minogue's Eurodisco tracks, but when I heard it the first time it took me back to 1999 when another Australian act, Madison Avenue, released a very bass-heavy Eurodisco track called Don't Call Me Baby, which peaked at number two on the Australian charts. The same spot, Jewelope's song has peaked out here as well. You've got to play the Madison Avenue song

as a comparison because they are so very similar. Both songs peaked at number one on billboards, dance tracks, and the main charts in a few countries around the world. Give a listen. Thanks, guys. Oh, yeah. Wait, I've heard that song.

Yeah. I know that song. That's by Madison Avenue. Yeah. And they're an Australian group. Yeah. While I can hear how Don't Call Me Baby is a sort of more 90s version of a disco song, we've got those strings.

We've got those pew, puo-poo's. We've gotten the lap percussion. Indeed. The four to floor kick drum. We've got those funky octopi bases, all the same kind of elements. Yeah, the full menu. I realize in listening to this, I think disco might actually just be one of my favorite kinds of music and one of my favorite cultural touchstones.

I just love all things that point to that period. Oh, so satisfying. You know, this song isn't just a memory palace of disco. It is also a track that uses so many important musical techniques to bring the song to life, to say something meaningful. When we get back, we're going to hear from more of our listeners and some of the things

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Duol Pus Don't start now is more than

just a disco song. It is so well written

and it tells its story uses all kinds of songwriting techniques that we've talked about on our show. We're going to go back to Will one more time, because he pointed out a handful of them that I thought were particularly keen in just like the first few seconds of the song.

It's also a great example of a super slick pop package hiding a lot of pretty interesting musical ideas, which I definitely wouldn't have picked up on without listening to your show. In the first 10 seconds of the song, there are four techniques I've heard you talk about. The intro is a catchy snippet from the pre-chorus, what you've called a pop overture before. It's also a preview of the house piano chords that keep the song from ever resolving fully,

making it a really effective dance loop. When she sings, did a full 180, right before the song backs up into the first verse, that feels like a classic example of word painting. Finally, right before that first bass drops, there's a little touch of what sounds like sampled vinyl hiss. And the song's barely started. Isn't that awesome?

Oh my God, that will from Oakland. You're making my heart. Sorry here. This is so cool. And we'll send the royalty check is in the mail. Here's the intro of the song just to show what he's talking about. All right. So what were those references? He mailed it. All right, all right. We've got a snippet from the pre-chorus, a kind of preview of the song to come. That's something we have identified as the pop overture common to many tracks in the streaming era that are trying to grab your attention. We've got those house piano chords that we've heard across a lot. of popular music of the 21st century. And he actually points out that it sets up a somewhat non-resolving chord progression during

some parts of the song, and so it creates some interesting harmonic tension. Sure, yeah, no doubt. And then there is the vinyl hiss that you can hear really clearly in this sort of gap right between the end of that intro and the start of the first verse. And the last one, remind me, what was the last one? And then he had a text painting example. Text painting. Did a full 180.

And so I guess the song sort of flips itself from one section back to the verse or something like that. Ooh, wait, let's spin that back one more time. Oh, my God, yeah. Even better with the bass at that moment. Right, and then the whole texture of the track changes as she does a full 180. Masterclass in pop production. Totally. Very cool.

We'll have some fantastic insights. there are so many things to unpack in this truck. We're not going to be able to cover even, I think, the beginning of it, because I keep finding new things the more and more I listen. But I did recruit some other listeners, and I want to go first to Daniel, who found another case of text painting that I particularly enjoy. My favorite part of Don't Start now is in the second verse

when Dua Lepa sings took some time to survive you and literally takes extra time before saying survive you. The backphrasing both subverts what the listener has come to expect, and creates a beautiful moment of text painting. It's kind of brilliant. Here's what he's talking about. That's the original phrasing. Can even hear her like take a breath right there, right?

Right. That line to survive you comes a little later than you expect. She's taking more time. Damn, Daniel. That is deep. Very cool. I feel this is a great moment of earned text painting. where she's taking her time

because this song in many ways is about developing confidence to walk out on her own and say get out here, stop following me around, I'm interested in anymore. Taking time, taking a breath, pausing is such a powerful way of claiming confidence.

It's not the only way that the song informs her emotional state. Here's Manuela. I love how in the verses the melody changes and it just kind of slows down and it overall just emphased. this heartbreak that was going on her, how much it's weighing on her. And then as soon as that's over, this high tempo chorus comes in,

and you just get so excited, and it just matches well with the overall tone of the song. The core insight that I really enjoy is the way in which she uses the standard verse chorus song form to pair with her evolving emotional state. The way that she sings in the beginning is a little more airy and soft. By the time she actually gets the chorus, the melody actually becomes much simpler. This sort of almost single note assertive melody, which I think is that display of confidence. This is a song where every section is a hook. There is a memorable melody in each moment.

And yet, the chorus is actually the simplest moment. It's the easiest to sing along to. It's the most direct. often we get the inverse of that. Oftentimes it's the verses which are sort of simpler and the chorus is where they sort of show off their vocal, right? Here I think she switches it because I think it is a great way of trying to say what she has to say.

Yeah. There's something about her voice that is hard to put into words, but her vocal timbre is like just unmistakable, unique, and just like kind of expansive in this way. Like you feel like you could just like sit in her voice, just like draw a bath in her voice. pitch a tent in her voice. It's very broad.

Like, it feels like it almost spans two octaves at the same time. There's so many overtones. Yeah, yeah, no, it's thick. It's a robust. And it gives a weight to what she's saying. In a song like this, these lyrics could feel just very kind of vague and sort of tossed off. But she gives it, like, this importance that makes you, like, gives it this urgency. Yeah.

Isn't that so hard to pull off where you're making something which is a reference, it's nodding and nudging and even winking? That could be kind of, I don't know, hammy. Certainly cliche. And yet we buy her vocal performance. We buy the lyrics, even though she's making all of these references. My favorite thing is when our listeners not only have something they want to share with us, but they have something that they want to sing with us.

And our friend Andre picked up sort of the same moment as Manuel. He had a different way that he wanted to share it. My favorite part of Don't Start Now is the pre-chorus when she jumps up an octave and dances around the F-sharp, but also uses it as a landing point for the other phrase. If you don't want to see me dancing with somebody, if you want to believe that anything could stop me. This is so good. hearing André's reinterpretation with the clarity of the acapella makes me hear

how again how deliberate each of these melodic choices is like there's a lot of subtle slides and I guess Mordance might be the word I don't know the word Mordance Mordant is like literally comes from the Latin root to bite but it's basically when you go from like

a note down or up to its neighbor in a little slide. Yeah. So it's like an ancient kind of musical practice. She does that a number of times, in fact. Yeah, so the melody is always kind of like sliding between notes, which Andre illustrates beautifully in his voicemail. So Andre knows exactly what he loves about the song.

However, friend Jason is lost about something and needs some help identifying what exactly it is that he's hearing. Hi, Nate and Charlie, this is Jason. So for Dulepah's Don't Start Now, my favorite bit in there is in the second chorus, there is this weird little recording of a crowd, it sounds like cheering and murmuring and chanting almost, as if she's at a party or something or dancing or out and about. All right, no promises, but we'll do our best. Yeah, it sounds like Jason's a little bit more in the verse right now. I'm not sure exactly what he's hearing. Let's see if there's a crowd.

That's a crowd. Whoa. How did we? I had completely missed that before. That's what I'm saying. I first really enjoyed this song because I had a cool bass line. And I listen deeper.

And then I'm like, oh, there's this amazing melody. And then there's this cool harmony. Is that every time the chorus hits there's that crowd? That's just the second time, I believe. The second time there's that crowd in the background. Let's hear them one more time. Don't show up. Don't come out.

That's wild. Isn't that fun? One thing it makes me think of is the beginning of Marvin Gay's got to give it up, part one. You're not the only person. Oh, really? Here's Davey. In the second pre-chorus, you get this amazing buildup of all these swirling sounds, which you think will lead you to this huge chorus with all these additional instruments.

What you actually get is a stripped back chorus, this disco-forking. funk situation with crowd sounds in the background that echoes back to Marvin Gay's 1977 song got to give it up. You know, at first I thought, well, maybe this is just another reference. Like, let's just make yet another connection to the past. And yet, on a compositional level, it also really works well for the song. Like, this is are stepping out. This is like, I'm going to be seen in the crowd.

And after these swirling strings, things are getting big and wild and you think there's almost might be this like, I don't know. kind of like EDM style drop or something. No, the whole thing zooms in, it becomes very close. It's just her asserting, you know, don't start now. And then in the background, we hear the people who are observing her. I love that. This discussion has been most revealing,

because I really enjoyed this track when I heard it, but I did not think there would be this much to uncover and breaking it down. This is really fun. And I agree, this is good material for, starting 2020 off on the right note. I want to end by sharing a final voice note from our listener, Sav, who I think actually takes all of this extensive analysis we've done and really narrows down on what the song is about and what's most important here.

And this song also proves that a breakup song or an I moved on song does not have to be sad and melancholy and boring. It can be fun. It can be expressive. It can be cool. It can be a beat. And she can still communicate. Don't start now. I'm over you. Goodbye. This is the best pop song that came out in 2019 and I will die on this hill. What fun, man. Well, we'll die with you. I think Sav said it right. This is just a great track. It is so fun. It proves that you can break up with confidence. It proves that you can move on

into the next decade. Assertiveness. There is so much more here. For example, there are other lyrical snippets. The lyric walk away might be a Donna Summer's reference. She talks about So Moving On. Is that a Kelly Clarkson reference? I'm not sure what the term for this

is, but in the chorus, her vocals are like cut off. There's no like decay or breath. They're like, they're really, I wonder if that's Oh, they're chopped. That could be an interesting reference. Yeah, there might be something there. There might be a Whitney Houston reference if you don't want to see me dancing with somebody. There's so much here.

So if you have other things that you find and you want to share them, please chat with us. We're on all the social media at Switchdown Pop. This has been great fun, Nate. Thanks for breaking down. Don't start now. Switch on Pop is produced by me, Charlie Harding. And me, Nate Sloan. We're mixed and engineered by Brandon McFarlane.

Our producers are Megan Lubin and Bridget Armstrong, and our executive producers are Nashat Kerwold. and Liz Nelson. We're a production of the Vox Media Podcast Network. You want to say happy 35th birthday to Kelly. Yeah, but we're not going to sing happy birthday. No. No, we don't like that song. Or Nate doesn't like. I don't know how Charlie feels. I love happy birthday. I have a strong anti-happy birthday feeling. Another time. But it's sincere happy birthday to Kelly. Yeah, sorry, that's the point. Happy birthday to Kelly. You really had to make this all about you, didn't you? Yeah. I also want to say thank you to everyone who has bought our book. It's been a very

exciting time for us. If you've been enjoying it, please leave us review. That would mean a lot to us. Again, connect with us on social media at Switched On Pop. You can find back episodes anywhere you get your podcast and on our website, switchedonpop.com. You can also find upcoming events. We'll be in Berkeley, in Seattle, and Los Angeles coming up this month. We'll be back again in another week. Until then, thanks for listening.