Switched on Pop - Elvis, Big Mama Thornton, Doja Cat, and the Long Legacy of “Hound Dog”

Episode Date: July 26, 2022

Baz Luhrmann’s hit box office hit biopic Elvis has spurred new interest in the music of The King. Elvis Presley’s streaming subscribers has grown by two million listeners on Spotify since the film’s release according to ChartMetric, and if you’re hearing a lot more “Hound Dog” these days, it might be partially due to the success of Doja Cat’s hit song “Vegas,” which updates – and interpolates – the song for contemporary listeners.  Doja Cat’s version samples from the original 1953 “Hound Dog,” sung by Big Mama Thornton and written by acclaimed songwriter team Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller (whose credits also include Presley’s “Jailhouse Rock” and Ben E. King’s “Stand By Me”). The original is a sauntering blues song with a raunchy tale about a two timing man; Presley, who is frequently said to have stolen the song from Thorton, instead sings a tepid lyric about an actual dog, and radically changes the groove.  But in an interview with Rolling Stone, Stoller says Presley didn’t steal the song at all. Rather, he adapted one of many covers of the song, specifically the version performed by the Las Vegas lounge act Freddie Bell and the Bellboys. Their “Hound Dog” borrows its upbeat rhythm from a song responding to the original “Hound Dog,” titled “Bear Cat.” It’s a similar rhythm to the one we hear on the contemporary Doja Cat version, “Vegas,” which heavily features samples of Thornton’s original vocals: listening closely reveals a song that synthesizes a complicated music history by uniting the best parts of the many versions of “Hound Dog.”  Listen to the latest episode of Switched On Pop and uncover the long legacy of “Hound Dog.” Songs Discussed Big Mama Thorton - Hound Dog Elvis - Hound Dog Doja Cat - Vegas Esther Phillips - Hound Dog Jack Turner - Hound Dog Rufus Thomas - Bear Cat Freddie Bell and the Bellboys T.L.C. - No Scrubs Sporty Thievz - No Pigeons  W.C. Handy - St. Louis Blues Duke Ellington - Conga brava Sister Rosetta Tharpe - Didn’t It Rain Fats Domino - Mardi Gras in New Orleans Dave Bartholomew - Country Boy Little Richard - Slipping’ And Sliding’ Jack Harlow - Dua Lipa Future - Puffin on Zootiez Hitkidd, Gorilla - F.N.F. (Let’s Go) Bad Bunny - Después de la Playa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're tired of endless scrolling to figure out where to eat, same. I'm Stephanie Wu, editor-in-chief of Eater. We've just launched the new-ish and way better Eater app. It has all the restaurants we love, gives you personalized picks wherever you are, and serves up smarter search results just for you. You can find my list of the best places for martinis and fries in New York City. And save your favorite spots, share lists, follow editors, and book right in the app. Download the Eater app at Eaterapp.com.

It's free for iOS users. Welcome to SwitchDom Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. Nate, you've probably heard that the filmmaker Baz Lerman has a hit biopic about Elvis Out. Oh, you mean friend of the show, Baz Luhrman? Yes, I'm familiar with his latest opus. Yeah, he was on our sunscreen episode.

He has helped rejuvenate interest in Elvis Presley, whose streaming numbers are currently up by 2 million, monthly listeners on Spotify, according to chart metric. And if you're hearing a lot more of Hound Dog, it's probably because you're hearing a lot more of this. Okay, that slaps. That's Doja Cat's cover titled Vegas. Not called Hound Dog, called Vegas.

It's from the original motion picture soundtrack that updates Elvis's music for today. And yeah, it sounds a lot different, though, obviously. Yeah, it's got that booming 808 bass. It's got some trap high hats. It's got a Doja Cat signature rap. We're a long way from the 1950s here. We are a long ways from the 50s, and people are really digging this Doja Cat version. It's performed very well. It has almost 100 million streams on Spotify. It's gone to number 31 on Billboard's Hot 100. Double damn. And listening to it made me want to figure out how did an iconic song storied in the history. of rock and roll morph into this modern hit. And to answer that question, we need to go back to the original hound dog. That would be the big Mama Thornton recording that predated Elvis's cover, right?

Yeah, exactly. I've always been told that Elvis stole hound dog. It's a part of the narrative of the original sin of rock and roll, the appropriation of a song from a black artist who was not fairly compensated. And obviously Elvis's overall legacy is part of the story. part of that long history of white musicians extracting black culture. And it's undeniably true that Big Mama Thornton, who performed the original song, received very little compensation due to an exploitative contract with her label.

She sadly never saw riches from the song, and it took decades of ink spill to get the cultural credit she deserved for her quintessential rock and roll performance. But when we listened closely to the music, the narrative of musical theft from Hound Dog specifically it's just a bit more complicated than it seems. So let's listen to the original. So that's the undeniable voice of Willie May, Big Mama Thornton. She was born in Alabama, 1926, and in 1951, she signs to a small and exploitative label called Peacock Records. She has a couple of failed singles.

So in August 52, she gets into the studio with two young white Jewish songwriters, Mike Stoller and Jerry Lieber, who are brought in to write her a hit. Which I assume is hound dog. Yeah, exactly. And according to Stoller, the song's written in just about 15 minutes. The best ones always are, Charles. It's the story of a two-timing man with the slaying metaphor calling him a hound dog. Big Mama Thornton's rendition saunters.

It's a 12-bar blues. She sings with a real growl and rasp, much bluesier sound with bronchy lyrics. Just totally over-deliversed in her performance. And I love this call and response that she does in her improvisation. Yeah, I mean, when you listen to this recording, it sounds like the way she would perform this live, right? She's like doing these ad-lips, these interjections. She's like egging on the musicians. the crowd. It's like you've stepped into a live performance with her and it just pops out of the

speakers all these decades later like a shot of gin and vermouth. Totally, man. And people felt similarly at the time. It was a hit. They released the song in February of 53. It reached number one on Billboard's R&B charts. It's really striking to listen to this big Mama Thornton recording if you're more familiar with the Elvis version of the song because the groove on the big Mama Thornton version is like so much more kind of slinky and down low and in the pocket and just kind of loping along whereas the Elvis is a little more like urgent. It's like, take it, take it. Oh, we got to play this song. And like Big Mama Thornton is just like, nah, let's just take it. You know, and it's just like, I got no no place to be. I just got to like get

some stuff off my mind about this POS dude that's been sniffing around my door, you know. I think that if you only hear these two versions, it's easy for you to say, hey, well, it looks like one is just a copy of the other. Elvis is just a sort of copying hound dog watering down the lyrics because it is a song about a dog rather than about a guy with a euphemism of being a hound dog. Right. That's so funny. It's a literal dog now. I know. It's ridiculous.

And the vibe of the song has totally changed. But in an interview with Rolling Stone just this month, the songwriter Stoller, who's still with us, one of the original songwriters of Hound Dog, Big Mama Thornton's version. He says that this was not stolen because he wasn't copying Big Mama Thornton. He was copying the copiers. Okay, walk me through that, Charles. Copying the copiers? What's that about?

Well, Big Mammothorton's version of Hound Dog was so successful that it inspired many covers and spin-offs. For example, March 1953, Esther Phillips has a great cover of the song. Whoa snooping around the door And quit snooping around the door Whoa, Esther. I know I love that vocal. Very different kind of vibe, though, is Jack Turner's countryified version

with Chet Atkins on guitar also comes out in March, 1953. You ain't nothing but a hound dog snooping around my door. You ain't nothing but a hound dog. It's almost like putting a different Instagram filter over this song. It's like, here's the blues, here's the country, here's the rockability, same lyrics, same music, but wow, does it sound different?

You say that these songs have the same lyrics. It turns out that at the time, it wasn't uncommon in R&B to have response songs. So in 1953, just two weeks after Big Mama Thornton releases Hound Dog, a DJ and singer Rufus Thomas cuts a record called Bearcalf. flipping the gender and changing the entire vibe of the song. You ain't nothing but a bell cat. It's scratching at my door. You ain't nothing but a bell cat. Scratchin at my door.

You can purr a pretty kitty, but I ain't gonna rub you no more. It makes me think of when TLC released no scrubs. And then there was this response trap. from the male perspective called No Pigeant. Oh, God. It's a tale as old as time. Yeah, it's the response song that nobody needed.

Nonetheless, it was very successful. It also went up the charts, number three on the R&B charts. And it also gives us a bit of the inspiration that we hear, I think, in the Elvis. Oh, okay, so maybe this is where Elvis got the idea that he could change the lyrics of the original once he heard this Rufus Thomas flipped version? Close, but not quite. Oh, okay. Because actually, Elvis is covering a cover from another band called Freddy Bell and the Bell Boys.

They were a Vegas lounge act known for making spoof songs. And in 1955, they whitewash the song, sanitizing it of its risque lyrics and turn it into a song about a dog. I mean it's I'm not a hound dog, I mean, it's sanitized, it's about an actual dog now But it swings, man, it's groovy. I dig it. I'm also kind of having a shining moment

Because if you watch the YouTube video of this, it's just a still image of Freddie Bell and the Bell Boys, and the pianist looks exactly like me. It's a little unsettling. That's pretty funny. I wonder if Elvis felt the same thing when he walked in and saw them in Las Vegas. He's like, hey Sloan? Is that you?

Because that's actually where he first bumped into them. He was playing in Vegas, and he went to the live set of Freddie Bell and the Bell Boys, loved it. He starts to incorporate it into his own touring, and he eventually releases his own version that has that same. same bass groove that I think you're really hooking on to. It's fascinating to hear all of these covers that existed before Elvis ever got to the song.

This track had such a circuitous path to the iconic Elvis version we know today. Absolutely. Elvis is channeling Freddie Bell, channeling Rufus Thomas, channeling Big Mama Thornton, and ends up on a version that has an updated vibe. It takes a small part of the bass rhythm from Big Mama Thornton. intensifies it and speeds it up. And it's that bass rhythm, which for me is the key to unlocking how we get to Doja Cat's modern rendition. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster?

Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay. Ready? Ready.

Do not sugarcoat something for me. No. No. No. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us.

New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. Immigration may be Donald Trump's signature issue. President Trump is now targeting predominantly democratic cities for ice raids and deportations. Dozens of protesters clashing with immigration and customs enforcement agents in Minneapolis Tuesday. We will begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to do in this space is talk about America and politics beyond the current president. So what do most Americans think about deportation? and border security, period.

I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ICE. When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want border at the border. They don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. The view on immigration from the bottom up instead of the top down. That's this week on America Actually. every Saturday in your audio and video feeds. So Elvis releases Hound Dog in 1956,

and it's one of the greatest successes in music history. It sells more than 10 million copies. It tops the Hot 100 for 11 weeks, a record that Elvis holds until 1992 when Boys to Men beats him. And the song is also finally a hit for Lever and Stoller, the songwriters, because like Big Mama Thornton, they also had gotten screwed out of much of their publishing, and they finally recouped their credits properly

when Elvis's recording comes out. And go on to become songwriting legends working with everyone from the drifters to the coasters to Ben E. King. And Elvis himself, they write jailhouse rock among many others. But I want to get back to Houndog. There's something about this song

that really clicks with people. It's a shorter song than the original. It's got this rattling drum fill, an angelic backing vocal. It's got this rhythm that you can hear from the original Big Mom with Thornton. But in Elvis's Hound Dog, it's emphasized, upright, and in your face, it just never relents. Bum, bum, bum, bum, b, bap, bough.

Nate, what would you call that rhythm? Well, Charles, I would reach down to the Crescent City of New Orleans, and I would probably call that a treceo rhythm, the kind of rhythm you'd hear in a second-line marching band. A rhythm, I would expect, has its roots in Latin America and then migrated to the southern shores of the United States and then spread throughout the world. But I don't know, maybe you can enlighten me. Yeah, that's pretty spot on. It's an African rhythm that goes by many names today. It's part of the clave, known as the hop-or-nara rhythm.

But yes, we will call it the traccio. It was spread around the Caribbean. It was popularized in the 19th century as part of a Spanish-American dance called the Contra Danza. and was particularly popular in Cuba. You can hear it as early as 1803. Yeah, it's a little quicker there, but you can hear it. D-D-D-Dick-Dick-Dick-Dick-Dick-Dick-Dick-Dick-Dick. Nate, are we going to start an Aucapel group now?

I think we should, Charlie. Well, that rhythm that is inspired. inspiring you right now has inspired so many genres. It inspires Ragtime, Congo, Tango, Mambo, Rumba. You can hear it in so many places, and of course, at Mardi Gras, as you pointed out, in New Orleans, it becomes a thing. You can hear it in the 1914 track St. Louis Blues by W.C. Handy. This rhythm just spreads and spreads.

In 1940, Duke Ellington uses it in Congo Brava. One of the earliest proto-rock-and-roll artist's sister Rosetta Tharp uses it and didn't it rain in 1948. And hear it on Dave Bartholomew's Country Boy from 1953. Now we're really getting that vibe. BB King picks it up on his 1953 track, woke up this morning. We have to mention Fats Domino, one of the inventors of rock and roll, his song, Mardi Gras in New Orleans, from 1953.

That rhythm's all over it. And released just before Elvis's version of Hound Dog, Lil Richards, slipping and slide in from 1956. So when we hear Hound Dog from Elvis via Freddie Bell via Rufus Thomas via Big Mom important, we're hearing a well-established rhythm that's been around for a long time. But it's Elvis's interpretation of this vibe that becomes a Billboard Hot 100 number one hit. Nate, when you hear that sound today, what radio format do you associate it with? Golden oldies.

Golden oldies. Yes, exactly. It feels overplayed. That rhythm became totally overplayed. And then I realized, actually, maybe it's the most contemporary sound because it's still everywhere. This rhythm remains extremely popular. In fact, the trisio, bum, bum, bum. In fact, it's one of the most dominant rhythms in the music. contemporary pop, hip hop, and Latin music.

I just went and checked out songs that are performing well this year on the charts. And it's everywhere. Check out Young Gravy's Betty, get money. What? Bum, bum, bum, bum.

Bum, bum. You thought I Rickrolled you there. I had a moment, but then that Trecio dropped and I was like, okay, we'll let this go. Yeah, you can hear. hear it, it's that heavy bass line, you can hear the exact same kind of vibe on Jack Harlow's Duelipa. It's on Hit Kid and Glorillaz, FNF, let's go.

And I'm S-I-N-G-L-E again. It's on Futures Puffin' On Zooties. Bomb, bum, bum. That's cool because in the future baseline, we're actually hearing kind of an extended treceo with an additional two beats. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, which technically turns it into a clave rhythm. Yeah.

Another ubiquitous rhythm of the Afro-Latin diaspora. Speaking of which, we should probably also hear some bad bunny. It's all over his latest record. There's a fast trisio. It's sent a bit, boom, pooh, boom, poop. Yeah. It's sending us into another genre entirely into the world of Marengay. But we're all connected through that triceo rhythm, and it is the thing that's going to bring us back to Doja Cat's Vegas.

A lot of people are hearing Doja Cat's Vegas as a reclamation of the original Big Mama Thorne, and they should. The song is an interpolated sample with vocals performed by the late Shanko DuCherty, who plays Big Mama Thorne in the film. So while Doja Cat may sound like a modern trap beat with a blues chord progression, it also feels. feels deeply connected to the original hound dog. And from the very start of Vegas, we also hear that triceo rhythm. So Vegas may actually be the synthesis of the more popular version by Elvis and the original performed by Big Mama Thornton, an homage to two songs that will stay stuck on you. I like that, Chuck, because next time I hear this Doja Cat Vegas track,

I'm going to be thinking about how it's not just this song, it's not just this sample of Big Mama Thornton. It's not just this reference to Elvis. It's also all the layers of everything in between and even going back to the 19th century trisio rhythm. The song is like a wormhole through multiple musical dimensions. And I feel like I can hear that clearly now. Thanks for traveling down that wormhole with me. It's been fun. Switched on Pop is produced by Rihanna Cruz, edited by Jolie Myers, engineered by Brandon McFarlane, Community Management by Abby Bar, illustrations by Ira Scott Lee. Our executive producers are Connor Rosen and Ashok Kerwa, a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network and a production of Vulture.

Check up more episodes of our show anywhere you get podcasts or our website, Switchedonpop.com, and hit us up on the Twitter on the Instagram at Switch on Pop and tell us what your favorite song from the Elvis soundtrack is. Tune in next week when Rihanna brings us an episode about Demi Lovato's reintroduction into the world of pop punk. It's going to be a lot of fun. And until then, thanks for listening. Attention Spotify. Has yet yet yetmobile Jasmine Absolute of Carolina Herrera. A fragrance intense

with character gourmet and addictive. Imagine a jasmine emvolventy, caramelized and tonka toasted. A combination that seduce from the first instant and a waya. Good girl Jasmine Absolute

hypnotic irresistible. Discover it a hoy and let you involve for your sensia. Convierter your passion in a new with Shopify and batte records

of the business with the form of the world. Has heard The best conversion of the world. The incredible system of of Pago of Shopify facilitates the site web, in the

social and in the world. That is music for your eyes. No, you'll be more vultas. Your business will be a super-exit with Shopify. Empecies your period of a month for a euro at

a month in Shopify.es. Barra Records.