Switched on Pop - Eurovision feast: Poison Cake, Milkshake Man, and Espresso Macchiato (featuring Tommy Cash)

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

It's that time of year again: Eurovision Song Contest is upon us. And with the competition comes a tradition at Switched On Pop, where Charlie and Nate look at the songs (and countries) that have the best odds to take home the title. This year, we have an ode to the sauna, soaring operatics, and a feast of food-themed tunes – including the Estonian entrant Tommy Cash's ode to the "Espresso Macchiato." This episode of Switched On Pop, we take a sonic trip to Basel, Switzerland – and in the back half of the episode, talk to Tommy Cash himself about his entry and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to Switched on Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. And I'm musicologist Nate's

that time of year annually. We take a trip to Europe together. The purpose for our European destination is, of course, the annual song contest Eurovision. Last year, it was won by Switzerland. And thus, we'll be going to Basel, Switzerland, for the 69th competition that's taking place May 13th through 17th. One of the best moments in the pop music calendar.

I always love revisiting Eurovision. I feel like the music is so unusual and often outside of the cultural norms of our American perspective. Today, we're going to do our usual fare. We're going to look at some of the top contenders in Eurovision this year. Then we're going to look at the wild cards. The really out there songs. And finally, we actually have an interview with Tommy Cash, the Estonian contender, that we're going to hear in the second half with our producer, Rihanna Cruz.

All right, it's an action-packed episode where are we going to start, Charles? So I always feel like the best place to start is with the bookies. Each year, people make bets on who is going to win this giant, song contest featuring dozens of nation states. And today, I want to listen to the top three and evaluate them how the judges of Eurovision are expected to evaluate the songs. Now, remember, there are two rounds of voting. Each country sends its own judges. These are people that have a musical background. They might be a musicologist, a music journalist, or a musician, past contenders. And then there's, of course, the voting public who also get to vote on the winner of Eurovision.

Okay, it's been a year. I need a little refresher. What criteria do the judges use to determine the ranking of these songs? One, the vocal capacity of the performer. This is primarily a vocal competition. In fact, live instruments aren't played during Eurovision. Two, is the composition and originality of the song that does absolutely matter. Three, is the overall impression of the act. It's a little room for subjectivity, if you will.

And then, of course, the quality of the performance on stage is also important. This is a visual performance. However, this is a podcast. So we are going to not think about the visual. We're going to listen to the vocal, the composition, and how it makes us feel, you know, how we think about music, basically. The impression. Okay, yeah, that's the one that I'm a little hung up on, like, just kind of how, yeah, okay, so we're just going to do a gut check at the end of the song and be like, do I feel warm and fuzzy or cold and distant? Okay, that works.

Yeah, so here we are. We're in the beautiful pastoral, historic Basel, Switzerland, right near France. Yeah, nestled in the Rhine. And we're going into the Eurovision competition. And on stage is the number one predicted act to win. It's Sweden's K-A-G, Kaj. Kaj? Let's go with Kaj.

I don't know I'll speak Swedish. Kaj. And their song, Barra, Bada, Bastu. Kaka Zona. Sauna. Okay, a little bit of hint what this song is about. Our group here are actually a trio of comedians that sing songs. They're actually from Finland, but they sing in Swedish.

What? And they had to work with a Swedish songwriter in order to be able to represent Sweden in the competition. Twist. I thought there was something Finnish about these guys. What was that? Well, in the past, when we've done this, the Finland entries have always been very like Utre and outlandish. And Swedish have been a little more kind of buttoned up. So I was a little surprised to see this kind of somewhat silly song.

from a, you know, serious Swedish contender. There's probably a couple of other hints. Now, some of them might be the composition. One of the things we often hear in a Eurovision song is a combination of Europop, EDM sort of sounds, and some traditional instrumentation. Like, you got a nod to the home country. Here we have some kind of accordion instrument,

which is taking the lead, driven by a very Europop beat. And I think the biggest hint, though, is that line that you said of Sala. Yes, the sauna. This song is an ode to sauna culture. Incredible.

Let's do some translation here. The song begins, well then. The clock strikes. Now is the time. All worries will soon disappear the best cure for body and soul. Four wood paneled walls. The firewood of our hearts just as well.

And then they go, one, two, three, Sauna. No, not sauna, sauna, Charlie. We've got to get the correct pronunciation, not our Americanized version. We're going to have a sauna, sauna, sauna, steam up and release all stress today. Sauna brothers were the ones who glow 100 degrees. It's such a fun song.

So good. Sauna is, of course, a big part of a Finnish culture. Sauna. Swedish culture as well. Or as we call it in Yiddish, a schvitz. Many cultures have their ways of releasing stress in warm environments. We have onsens. we have. Wow, if you pull this off, if you take me on a global tour of saunas right now, unprepared. I will be so impressed. Can you get one more? Can you get more? Oh, nice. We've got, what do they call it in Turkey? Oh, it's really good. It's the most beautiful, oh gosh. I don't know. I just know about the Russian Turkish baths and the lowery side, but I don't know what they're called. The Hamam. That's what I'm thinking of. And then they're always like beautiful. Did you pull that? Do you look that up? Tiles spaces. No, I've been in one before. Damn. All right. Well played Chuck. Yeah. Okay. Let's get back to

music. What criteria of the ESC are we going to dig into for this one? ESC. Eurovision Song Contest. Wow. Charlie, okay, wait, wait. We need to explain to the people out there that Charlie was at the Charlie X-C-X show in Brooklyn last night. He is not operating 100% capacity. I am operating at 175%. You're going 365. Okay. Are we, are we? Are we? Are we going to do voice? Are we going to do composition? Like, where do we start?

I mean, I think it's all three altogether. What's your impression of how the music and the lyric and the performance that comes together? Okay. Here's my take on the vocals. I am surprised these guys are comedians because their vocal performance is sharp. It's spot on. Okay. It's not like necessarily impressive in terms of the the range or the tone or the vibrato that they're using or anything. But they're just nailing it. It sounds really clear. It sounds, it's got a lot of purpose. personality, you know? As soon as this dude starts singing, I'm like, oh yeah, okay, I don't understand the word of this, except sauna, but I'm totally in because he's got me locked in. And there's always like a weird rap in these Eurovision songs. Can we listen to a little bit of that? I don't know if this is comedic or serious. I mean, this just might be an ode to how great it feels to be in the sauna. I'm loving it. It's on the razor's edge. And, you know, composition of the, it's it's not like there's any big surprises here necessarily. Like, is there a modulation to this one if we go to the very end trails? I don't think so.

Whoa! There is a modulation. I was wrong. I am happily wrong. I was not expecting it, but there is. I mean, they love to do it in these ESC tunes. It has to go over the top. So not necessarily surprising, but welcome, you know.

It hits all the marks. Okay. For originality, have you ever heard a pop song about a sauna? I have not. I'm racking my brain. I don't think so. Well, there is a Wolfpack song called Sanna, I think. But I believe it's wordless, if I'm remembering correctly.

So no, is the answer. No, I don't know any. Okay, so it's definitely off the charts for conceptual originality, perhaps not necessarily for the performance. The voice is totally fine. I think it's a good entry. Should we go to the number two? Let's do it.

So Sweden currently has a 39% likelihood of winning, according to the bookies. Our number two entry at 16% likely to win is Austria, the performer JJ and his song, Wasted Love. Opera, Belcanto. I feel like there's a massive drop about to strike us. Yeah, JJ born. Johann Peach is an Austrian.

Filipino countertenor. Can you explain to me countertenor how that works? Yes, let me use very technical language. It is a male voice that's really, really, really high. How about that? Operatic goes into the soprano range. Goes into the equivalent of a female soprano, yeah. Can you demonstrate, please? You know, I'd love to. I've got a little bit of a tickle in my throat. Otherwise, you know, I'd be all over that hitting those high vibratoes. But I go. Okay, okay. How do you feel about JJ, Wasted Love. I love the vocal. So far, I'm very taken by the composition. I mean, there's a nice synchronicity between the two, because when JJ goes to that operatic place for the chorus singing, Wasted Love, it sounds so tragic because he's like inhabiting these tragic,

operatic figures. So it's very effective. But then I feel like there's a drop, some rhythm that's about to enter. I need to hear a little bit of that, Charles. Oh, hell yeah. It's like Queen of the Night dubstep. That's awesome. I mean, yeah, this kicks ass. I have to say, really the only negative that I hear is the similarity to last year's winner, which was The Code by Nemo, which I can tell by your expression right now, Charlie,

you have zero recollection of because... I remember the Code by Nemo? Because your brain is still at Barclay Center being crushed under the Stelph. heel of Charlie X-X's club classics. But in the code, Nemo also has this countertenor voice. Nemo also sings with this operatic vibrato. We also move from this kind of spacious texture to this like thumping club feel. So I feel like this song has a tough road because of those similarities.

I'm picking up what you're putting down. I hear it. At the same time, if someone does something successful, pop music is all about, you heavily borrowing from those who are successful before you and trying to up the ante. One thing I like about how JJ is doing that is in the composition, they take JJ's countertenor high note and then it becomes this sort of synthesized element. This expression of having this wasted love feels fulfilled in the way that JJ's voice is being taken away from him and turned into this sort of synthetic texture.

I totally agree. This track is a banger. I just think given the shadow that it's being performed in, it's going to be a tough win, but we'll see. We'll see. Okay. So what I'm hearing is extreme high marks for vocal performance and tepid praise for originality. Tepid, no, tepid is too lukewarm. It needs to be a little, it needs to be, you know. Like a cool sauna? Sure, let's go with that. You know, many of these songs are lyrically vague. They're about reaching the largest audience. They are supposed to be apolitical. So there's a limit on what can be done within this framework. But despite the sort of cliche that the song presents, I really like the opening line.

I'm an ocean of love and you're scared of water. That is good. I mean, sometimes the serious Eurovision entries, suffer from not being able to have any sense of humor, frankly. So I appreciate that there's a little levity in that opening line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keeps the song from becoming too heavy. Speaking of being serious,

our number three most likely song to win comes from France, with 8% of the vote. We have Luans Momon. Mammons. Excuse me. I dropped French really early on, so excuse my terrible accent. Tom you. I know that for your PhD, you had to learn additional languages, right?

Wasn't there's like some French and German requirements that you had to take? Yes, yes. I've got to bring French. And okay, so the Deutsch is less. Deutsch was questionable that I passed. I'm just going to be perfectly real with everyone. Sure, sure, sure. Okay.

And let's just give the people some context here, Charlie. it's a reading exam. It's not a speaking exam. You have a dictionary. You have to translate an article. So speaking of translating an article, what are we talking about here? Ah, very well. My French accent, though, is quite good. You can use the French accent. English with a French accent, please. Zut al-Lor. We have a song, Mama, you know. Mother. Yes. Even you know that one. Yeah. But it's not just a tribute to Mom. it's more a reflection on becoming a mother

and rethinking your relationship with your own mother. So I think that's like kind of an original take on like what might be a tried and true genre of like the parental love song. Right, right. But I have to say in the verse, it's not really moving me, you know? It's not exciting me.

It doesn't feel unique or different. The vocal performance isn't particularly, impressive. Oh, I disagree. There's no more of love. Oh, okay. Charlie, the floor is yours. Now, my translation skills

are not excellent, but Genius.com tells me that that our singer here is talking about how I've built this life and that she's feeling empty and she has all these questions and she's sort of reaching out to her mother from beyond the grave. How are you doing? Do you see everything?

I'm growing up and I've kept all these memories of you. And vocally, it's actually almost more spoken than sung because it feels like we're building towards some larger expression. So I feel like she has to start from this place of vocal reserve so that she can go to her full-on voice. Okay, fair. Let's hear that peak then.

Well, in her second verse, we start to hear time ticking forward. Right? So we hear the ticking, time has moved forward. She starts talking about how she has now found love. The song is going to turn about crying out to her mother and more towards like, I am a mother. So she built this thing up. We have transversed time. We have shifted from being the daughter into being the mother role.

And we hear exuberance and love and appreciation and celebration of motherhood in the later half of the song when I think we really get the full vocal powerhouse that we expect from Eurovision. I agree with everything you just said, and yet it still doesn't sound unique to me. It sounds a little generic. It's like it's a little bit saccharine. I don't know how to describe it, but it's just, it's not like hitting in that way that the other two are. All the Eurovision songs are either a little bit saccharine or way too overly sweet. So I want to go to some of those overly sweet songs in a second. But I just want to share with you a very quick hit of some honorable mentions that I think are particularly lovely and deserve a listen.

the Netherlands, Claude, Sayla V. I had this one playing during breakfast this morning, and my youngest son, this was his reflection on Sayla V. That's my favorite song. Isn't that cute? High praise, wow. You had never heard it before, but it's now his favorite song, so I had to play that one for you. Love it.

We have to hear Roa by Via, from Iceland. Sorry for the pronunciation. Ooh. I've never heard EDM Pirates at the Caribbean, so definitely an interesting one. And then there's Survivor by Parg from Armenia. And for me, this is if, like, the song The Beautiful People was written by Imagine Dragons. I'm not sure that that's praise. The Marilyn Manson song?

Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a nice screaming in there. One of the great things about Eurovision, there's always some people that bring metal into the mix. It's usually kind of jockey metal, but I did appreciate some of the death growls going in the back of Survivor. Finally, a song I really like is from the UK. They're a group called Remember Monday, and they have a song called What the Hell Just Happened? What the hell just happened? Go listen to the rest of it.

It's like queen rock anthem. It is so much fun. That's awesome. But I know why we're really here today, and that is for the wild cards. They overly sweet, the absolutely ridiculous, the kind of music that only happens at Eurovision. And leading the pack for me this year has got to be the entry from Malta, the song, Serving. Have you heard this yet? I have not.

Serving cunt. Now, obviously, what you're probably paying attention to right now are the Middle Eastern influences that we would expect from Malta. That's probably what's standing out more than anything about this track, right? Can you drop a C-bomb like that in Eurovision? Oh, you're thinking of the lyrics. So, the song Serving, originally titled Kant, K-A-N-T. Oh, my God. As in Emmanuel, Critiques of Reason?

I should have known this song was about continental philosophy. Yep. Exactly. However, I was wrong. Kant, K-A-N-T. I believe translated in Maltese means singing. She's serving singing. They knew exactly what they were doing.

No, of course they did. The BBC levied a complaint. The morality, please. Of course, said, no. You know exactly what you were doing. You can't say that. It's not going to pass. And so they have changed the name of the song from Kant to serving.

And when you hear it at the Eurovision Song Contest this year, they have changed the lyric as well. So now it's serving. I mean, the censor version still serves. I have no complaints, but I do like knowing the original here. There's one other thing that really stands out to me about this song, which is this little ending melodic phrase. This little melody is everywhere right now.

It's all over the Eurovision song contest, It's the sort of descending minor thing that kind of goes down the scale, walks back up, and then back down. You can hear it in Spain's entry in their song, Melody. And then the Luxembourg entry, La Poupe Mont La San, also has this melody. Yeah, very similar. Da, da, da, da, da, some version of that. 3.5, 251. We should do it in Solfesh to pay tribute to serving.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like there is some hit that's, like, happening on TikTok right now. and I just cannot remember what it is. That is that melody. Do you know what I'm talking about? I don't, but man, I mean, this melodic device is... I think if we went through past Eurovision song contest, we'd find it as well. I'm saying, I don't think it's unique to 2025.

I think it's like... No. So there's something very satisfying about that kind of sting. It's a little, like, classical in its character, which maybe lends itself to this particular setting. But, yeah, I love it. There are a lot of different Eurovision cliches, including a love of celebrating Western classical music.

And we have already heard maybe some homage to opera. If we go to Croatia's entry, and their song, Poison Cake, we also get a little bit of classical music and a ridiculous lyric. They're right. Made you something that I know you like. Chocolate covered sugar and size.

Another clock. Tasty, tasty, yum, yum, tasty. Tandy colors, bosharlance. Take a bite of my poison. Okay, maybe not that much classical music. I'm just getting these big orchestra stab kind of thing. However, I just had to play in the song. I needed some kind of transition.

Poison cake. What? I don't like it. I don't like that image at all. I don't like, I don't like songs about food in general. I'm just going to say that. If you don't like food and your music,

you're not going to like the entry from Australia. Yes, Australia is in Eurovision. And their entry by Gojo, It's called Milkshake Man. Come and take a sip from my special coat. Nope. Nope. I'm not into this.

Oh, go. I can tell you on a taste of the milkshake man. This is like if Daniel DeLuis's character in There Will Be Blood at a, what's the name, Daniel Plainview at a Eurovision song contest entry? That's so dark. He drinks your milkshake, Charlie. He's the milkshake man. Yeah. No, I enjoyed that.

That was good. That was good. What do you enjoy about this? I mean, the level of commitment to the silliness is so extensive. And there were some cool musical moments, the end of the little tag at the end of the chorus. Can we hear that one more time? It's like order up. Yeah, I grudgingly admit this is a banger.

Okay. So you do like food and music, which is good news because it turns out we have one more. Oh, whoa. Okay. Oh, yeah. Coming out of Estonia, we have Tommy Cash and his song, Espresso Machiato. That's a beverage. That's a completely different category. And we just talked about Diet Pepsi for an hour last week. Beverages, that's right. Very different story.

Okay. Okay. So this is an Italian and English song by avant-garde rapper Tommy Cash, who pursues every possible Italian stereotype. Let's take a listen. Already into it? So just to start, we've heard three genres. We hear a sort of stereotype traditional-ish, like karaoke version of a traditional Italian, like restaurant-style song. A tarantella, perhaps. And then, like, so. silly Euro club version of the exact same thing we just heard.

Mm-hmm. And now we are transitioning with some electro-swing into a truly offensive verse. Oh, gosh. Yeah, Bella, I'm Tomasio, addicted to tobacco. Me like me coffee is very important. No time to talk is so. My days are very busy.

And I just own this little restaurant. Lemons when dancing with the Dostresso, no need to be Depressor. Word on the street, the Italians are not happy about this entry. Again, this is coming from Estonia. Yeah, I can see why. Yeah, I'm Depresso. I mean, it's like

stereotype. Now, you know, perhaps you could argue that due to their relative position of power in the global political economy, you know, making fun of Italians is not

punching down necessarily, but I get it. That's true. You know, in the Eurovision Song Contest, there is the Big Five, which includes France, Germany, Spain, the UK, and of course, Italy. They all make the biggest contributions, and they always get to participate in the finals. And so, yeah, okay, that makes a little bit of sense. What about reading it this other way? Okay. Which is that espresso is the highest form of expression of coffee and that it will solve all of your woes. This is an ode. This is a love for Italian cultural. and espresso macchiato with a very heavy sneer.

It's giving a little bit of the, I want to say, I didn't forget the year, forgive me, but the Russian entry from Little Big was Uno, 2022, 2023. Kind of similar, a bunch of Russians doing a duolingo level one version of Spanish. That is arguably also kind of offensive, but your memory, of it astounds me. Are you revealing yourself to be a bit of a Eurovision head? I mean, doing these episodes every year, I've got sediment of Eurovision just like caked in my frontal cortex. So, so yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm absolutely a fan. These silly songs are as much of a part of the contest as the serious dramatic ballads. And frankly, I feel like I need to understand what the

heck is behind espresso macchiato. Luckily, we've got the same. We've got the same. We've got the the inside scoop right after the break. Producer Rihanna Cruz, we'll be talking with Tommy Cash about espresso macchiato. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster?

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When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want border at the border. They don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. The view on immigration from the bottom up instead of the top down. That's this week on America Actually. Every Saturday in your audio and video feeds. Rihanna, I feel like the deeper I get into Eurovision, the more I know about how it works, the less I actually understand about some of these ridiculous song entries.

Yeah, I kind of feel you. I mean, as an American, I feel like it's almost impenetrable for us to fully understand the European mindset that goes into a contest like Eurovision. And yet, one of your favorite songs this year is espresso macchiato by Tommy Cash. It is. It is. It's true. So I know you have the opportunity to talk with Tommy Cash. What is this song doing for you? What do you want to know about it?

It's fun. It's silly. I think the first time I listened to it, it got stuck in my head and it never left. And I've been a pretty big fan of Tommy Cash for several years now. He had a feature on Charlie XX's Pop 2 mixtape. And I've been very into him since. I saw him in concert last year. And so I thought it'd be cool to sit down with him and talk to him.

and talk to him about espresso macchiato because it's so different than the rest of his catalog. And he's a really cool musician. I'm curious to see how he translates his artistry to a contest like Eurovision. Are you going to clarify whether or not this is a follow-on song to espresso by Sabrina Carpenter? You know, I didn't ask that,

but I think we can consider it to be so. All right, cool. Let's go check in with Tommy Cash. Hey, hey. Hey, what's going to? going on. Thank you for joining me. I appreciate it. I produced the show Switched on Pop, which is about pop music. Every year we have a Eurovision episode. When it's USA going to be on Eurovision? Because Australia is, right? So why not? No, I know. That's what I'd be saying

that. I'm like, I feel like there's an opportunity. Yeah, absolutely. It's like Olympics for singing and performing. I think America should be there. I'm sure it would be a strong competitor. For this year, I think Jojo Siva should go. Very good. I think she would do very good. Yeah, she was born with Eurovision in her jeans. I mean.

Yeah, totally. Talk to me a little bit about espresso macchiato. What's the story of the song? It's the story to bring people together. You know, I wake up, you wake up, first thing we do, we drink coffee, right? Mm-hmm. If we meet up, what we're going to do? We're going to go for a coffee.

Coffee brings us together, so I hope that my song will bring us together too, no matter the differences, the taste. I hope my song will do the same. So what was the sonic inspiration for it? I know, like, your catalog is filled with a lot of, high-energy dance music. You know, there's a lot of, like, gabber, there's a lot of, I don't know, like traditional Euro dance sounds. Unz, mousis is fucking classic.

It's so fantastic. The espresso macchiato is a little different for you, and I'm wondering what the inspiration was for the track. The sonic inspiration was freedom. I had a trip to Capri, this little Italian island. We had this idea of espresso machado as a title. But like kind of the verse is weird. I don't remember the name of this style, but it's like this really bad style of like jazz

mixed with electronic music that no one uses and it's like so bad. I was like telling let's use this because no one is using this. sound and for me it's the year of trying things that Tommy hasn't tried before if you know you like you've been to my concerts you know my catalog and yeah and it's really scary to perform with the song like this because with a song like this you're naked on the stage you have no beat to hind behind to you have no base to hind behind it because if you have this

gabber of you have whatever Euro dance you have kind of this man-made energy pulse behind you, what already works with the crowd automatically. It's our heartbeat. It makes you move. Right? Yeah. But having this kind of, I don't know if I can call Machiaro ballad or opera song, it's different. It's kind of a battle with myself. I'm not used to it. I'm I'm used to having Baba Yega for Win a lotto, right? It already works. It opens up the mash bit, but this is when I'm like naked, when it's just my charisma, my, like you say, my aura, it's me, you know.

So how do you approach writing a song for Eurovision versus writing something for your own catalog? Is there a different take that you have on songwriting? Yes. We took some time with it to figure out the sessions of having the verses right took us time. And the variety of people that watch Eurovision is different. And I feel that I couldn't do classic Tommy Cash, let's say there. But I would say Macchiato is for everyone. Everyone can have a coffee.

And I'm not saying that I didn't talk about Eurovision with A.G. Cook. I'm not saying that I didn't. But yeah, we drink coffee this time. I like when the Eurovision songs have cultural sounds in it. Do you think espresso macchiato represents Estonia specifically? Well, specifically, it represents because it is sang by the most Estonian, top of the top tier, number one Estonian artist in the world. I mean, I also like these elements, what you say, but we're way past that.

It's way past that because the language is being used in different songs are not their own languages. The musicians are not from the countries. We're all past that. The competition is so international that what matters is the emotion. It doesn't matter in what language you sing. It matters if you make them feel good or bad. whatever, whatever your song brings. If it works, it works.

It doesn't matter the language. Yeah, and I think espresso macchiato works on a very high level. I'm really stoked to see how it goes. Yeah, I'm very excited too. Thanks, Tommy. Thank you so much. Ciao. Switched on Pop is produced by Raina Cruz, edited by Art Chung,

engineered by Brandon McFarlane, illustrations by Arras Gottlieb. Our theme song is by Zach Tenario and Jossi Adams of Arc Iris. Remember of the Vox Media Podcast Network, production of Vulture, which is part of New York Magazine. You can subscribe at nymag.com slash pod. Find more episodes of Switchdown Pop anywhere you get podcasts. Head over to our website, switchonpop.com. Sign up for our email list. Play bingo with us.

We haven't forgotten about bingo, folks. We're going to be checking in with that very soon. And we want you to fill out your cards because there could be a winner out there, potentially. Some very short songs we're having on the charts. It's going to be interesting. We've got social media at Switchdown Pop. Tell us your favorite Eurovision entries. Songs we didn't talk about that we should have covered.

Let it all hang out. And you know, we discussed how we wouldn't talk about the visuals of Eurovision. Would it be fair, this is a podcast. Well, it turns out we do reveal our faces now on social media. So if you want to see some fun video clips of each episode, you can find them on our Instagram and on TikTok at Switchdown Pop. Faces for radio. I would say you do have a great voice for radio. That baritone, I would love to hear the countertenor.

We'll save that for another day. Wasted love. He's got it. Give me another octave. Wasted love. Ooh. Oh, my glasses just broke. With that, we'll see you next Tuesday.

And until then, thanks for listening.