Switched on Pop - Eurovision Lives! (with Netta)

Episode Date: May 12, 2020

Like many events, the international song competition Eurovision 2020 has been canceled. Sadly, there will be no champion crowned this year... or will there?! Charlie and Nate comb through the emotional, the catchy, and the downright bizarre entries, then—with some help from our audience and 2018 Eurovision winner Netta—pick the best song in all the land. Come for the Lithuanian moose dance, stay for the unshakeable power of pop glory in a world gone mad. Songs discussed Netta - Toy Netta - Ricki Lake Senhit - FREAKY! Tornike Kipiani - Take Me as I am Go-A - Solovey Efendi - Cleopatra Gjon’s Tears - Repondez-moi The Roop - On Fire Dadi Freyr - Think About Things Roxen - Alcohol You Little Big - Uno Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're tired of endless scrolling to figure out where to eat, same. I'm Stephanie Wu, editor-in-chief of Eater. We've just launched the new-ish and way better Eater app. It has all the restaurants we love, gives you personalized picks wherever you are, and serves up smarter search results just for you. You can find my list of the best places for martinis and fries in New York City. And save your favorite spots, share lists, follow editors, and book right in the app. the Eater app at Eaterapp.com. It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switchshodem Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan.

And I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. Songwriter Charlie Harding. Today we have a task ahead of us that we have been shirking for many years. We are going to break down the Eurovision song competition. That brings me so much joy. I feel like this is one of the most requested things that has come in from listeners. It's to talk Eurovision and yet as Americans, we are somewhat woefully ignorant. So I'm excited for you to enlighten me. Eurovision is the yearly competition in which countries from all over the world, not just Europe, all submit a song. They are performed at a neutral location and a panel of judges and an international audience decide a single winner every year. This is a single winner. This is a

a mix of saccharine love ballads, outrageous Europop, and campy dance moves. It's been going on since 1956 and has given artists from Abba to Celine Dion, their big break. As you say, we are really overdue to talk about this global phenomenon. Yeah, but why now? Because like so many events, Eurovision 2020, meant to be held in Rotterdam, has been canceled. And for those artists who have been selected to participate, it's devastating because their entries will not be considered for 2021.

There will be a whole new crop of songs, which means this is their last chance. And it's a moment for us to celebrate the contest that never was. I want to go through some of our favorite tracks and just revel in the beauty, the emotion, and the absurdity of Eurovision 2020. I'm totally on board. So where do we start? Charlie, I'm hoping we can listen to some of the favorites from the crop of 41 entries this year.

And in lieu of an actual Eurovision 2020 winner, we can pick our own today. A switched on pop winner with the help of some celebrity guests and our own audience. I think we can get to the bottom of this. This is going to be interesting because Eurovision has all of the public interest that American Idol has, but with international politics layered on top of it, and we're going to insert ourselves in the middle and choose a winner. Yes, we are entering uncharted territory here, and I thought it would be helpful to have a guide, someone who actually won the Eurovision competition in 2018. Ooh.

My name is Netta. I am a 27-year-old singer and a looping artist from Tel Aviv in Israel. Hey, Netta. Netta's experience on Eurovision, well, I'll just let her put it in her own words. It's like a parallel universe. Like, everything is very good and very magical in that bubble. And it's marvelous, and it's cheesy and it's corny. It's your vision.

It's cheesy and it's corny. I love it. And some of the entries this year definitely qualify under this magically weird, cheesy and corny rubric. I'm just going to give you a little sampling of some of the entries this year. From San Marino, here's Senheat with Freaky. I love it. Freaky dreams on rooftops and kissing in the dark. And is that an elephant being sampled there? I, yeah.

I mean, when you think freaky, you think elephant samples. I feel like I just ingested a tab of LSD. There's like the imagery from the Virgin Mary and like 70s psychedelia and some stuff that I don't even know what is happening. This is wild. meta-mash-up. Let's go over to Georgia and discover a song by Tornike Kipiani called Take Me As I Am, in which every single note is not sung, but screamed. That's a perfect Eurovision entry. It's self-consciously nation hopping while somehow paying homage to Nickelback. It's so good let me give you one more little taste here's goa with salivay from ukraine and i love this one

because unlike some of the other entries we just heard this one is very traditional in the language and the harmonies but of course it has a techno beat i don't think it has a techno beat what would you say it has it sounds like some kind of traditional folky elements and mashing them up into sort of a hop aesthetic with some kind of dance music vibe. Yeah, I totally, I totally accept your revision, Charles. So we see already the kind of palette we're going to be working with here. Everything from kind of nonsensical dance tracks to emo rock to traditional folk music. It's all up for grabs in Eurovision.

So how do we pick a wist? How are we going to decide between all of these incredible sounds and flavors? Let's go back to Netta. She managed to win this whole shebang with her song Toy, so she might have some insights into what makes a truly great Eurovision song. The song needs to have a very strong subject. It helps it a lot if it had a relevant issue. Like my song Toy had a Me Too movement kind of team.

It was actually bigger. It had like a bullying kind of thing. So even if maybe there are some like folksy things going on, it's important to have a message which is going to resonate a very clear story. Yes. Number one, your song needs to be conceptually really strong and tight according to Neda. And you can hear that in her winning song, Toy. Here's a little bit of the chorus.

I love it because it both has a really powerful message and it's also really joyous at the same time. Exactly. Despite the silliness of a lot of this material, you're not going to win this competition unless you have something to say. Yeah. Okay, so what else do we need to judge a winning song?

Let's go back to Netta. The singer needs to carry it like he is the actual song. It's less of a song, more of a campaign. It needs to conquer. you have like three minutes. You have to be an icon. It helps if you're a diva. It helps if you're a big personality that people can look up to.

Okay, so no pressure. But in addition to having a song with a strong message, you also as a performer need to be an icon, a diva. You need to conquer. The messenger matters. And in her winning song, Toy, you can really hear that. Neda has a personality that is larger than life, and it starts from the very first note. She doesn't have to say anything, and you get so much.

And you really get a sense of her artistry. Netta is someone who uses looping pedals to layer her voice step by step, And that's what we're hearing here. We're hearing her personality, her inner diva. So you need a song with a message, a performer who turns that message into an icon. And finally, there's one other essential thing. Here's Neda. A Eurovision song, a good Eurovision song, has a lot of international lyrics inside it.

We want, as when we write a Eurovision song, that every single soul can relate to it around the world because obviously the watchers are not Americans and Australian only and in English. There are coming from Scandinavia and France and Belgium and all over Europe, basically. It's like 200 million watchers live and we want people to get it. That makes me think about how some of the quirkiness that I associate with Eurovision might have a lot to do with the fact that it really is such a melting pot of different pop cultures. There's not just one massive pop culture.

And thus we get entries which might really resonate with certain blocks of Europe differently than maybe what I hear on the radio. Yeah, absolutely. And if you can really crack the code, you can maybe find something that will appeal to everyone across the globe. It's a tall order, but it can be done. Okay, thanks to Netto. We now have some idea of how we're going to judge these songs, right? We're going to look for a song with a strong message, a performer who is a diva and embodies that song's message, and a set of lyrics that can reach an international audience.

All right. I'm ready. Now, again, there's 41 songs total representing 41 countries, and maybe a dozen of those were expected to make it to the finals. In the interest of time, I've gone ahead and cut that down to six of my personal favorites, and I'm hoping that together, Charles, along with our listeners, we can come to just one as the winner. Cool. All right, how do we do it? Well, let's just dive in with entry number one from Ager Baijan. This is Effendi with Cleopatra. Okay, so in the verse and the pre-chorus, it's like me, just like me, just like me, straight again, or in between, in-between, in-between, in-between.

Betrayed by Okay, so in the verse and the pre-chorus, it's like this is a pretty fun, successful, kind of feminist anthem, I would say. Yeah, it's meeting some of the messages too because it's international. It's referenced in Cleopatra. She's broadly known across cultures

as an essential leader of the ancient world. and it also has a queer positive message, so it's doing a number of the things that Netta wants. Totally. We've got a real exciting mix of instruments at the very beginning. Oud, Balaban, and Tar. But I think the song really emerges as a frontrunner once we get to the chorus. I love that you have this mashup of this drop. with a bunch of traditional instruments.

And Cleopatra with a rolled R, Cleopatra. I've been singing that nonstop for the past week. I think this ticks a lot of the boxes. We have that strong message. We have definitely a diva with those rolled R's being a nice example. Offendis got it. And... The international message, yeah.

Okay. So, Offendis, Cleopatra, representing... a gerbijan. Let's travel over to Switzerland. Ah, yes. Here's an artist named Jan's Tears and his

song, Repondéme, I think you'll hear immediately we are in a very different musical world than Cleopatra. This is a slow build. I have a couple of questions for you. Okay. So the first thing I noticed, of course, this is not in Swiss

Dutch, but rather in French. Very good. Probably for more appeal. We have a hook. Porqueh keeps coming back. A little refrain. Was there a line in there that said, how come we die after we live?

Wow. Not bad, Charles. Yeah. Why does death come after life? Yeah, okay. And did he also use the word pantalone? Or did I just mishear that? Antelone?

No, no pantalones in here. Okay. This is a really slow build, though. This is very sentimental, and I think by that line contemplating life and death, this is some heavy, serious stuff. Yeah, you know, I initially thought this was a love song. But after reading a translation of the lyrics, I realize it's about something else. Jan is singing, why do we run without ever stopping? Why do we pray everyone alone?

Why am I a stranger here? A stranger over there. This is actually a song about immigration. Migration, yeah. And Yon's Tears is an Albanian immigrant who moved to Switzerland with his family. So this is, I think, has a personal resonance for him, obviously, but is also something that I think people all over the world can relate to that feeling of displacement and wondering if you belong.

Wow, that's particularly powerful because getting to migrate to Switzerland is particularly challenging. And so I'm sure the experience of otherness must be very profound for the singer. So it sounds like we have number one of Neta's criteria, a strong message here. What about Jan's tears? Is he a diva? And before you answer, let me play some of his vocals towards the end of this song. How does he hit those notes? Wow, is that a contretaner?

Very good, contra tenor. The highest male voice? That is impossibly high. It really gives me chills when I listen to it. I'd ask you to try, but I don't think our ears could handle it. So I'm judging by your tone here. You're convinced that this is an iconic performance of a song with an international, strong message. So it seems like this is hitting all the bell.

here. Yeah. Also makes the cut. Let's take a quick jaunt over to Lithuania and get to know the Rup with their entry on fire. This is like classic Eurovision to me. The pronounced Eastern European accent, the kind of generic mashup. And if you you're watching this video, which I highly encourage you to do, you're seeing a guy with a shaved head in a turtleneck and

pants that taper out to be about like three feet wide at the bottom. It just looks like if you just had an image of Eurovision in your head, I think this would be it. Yeah, you said the word generic, not generic.

Generic. a match of of genres. You know, this is in many ways, I agree. This feels like a straightforward, yep, Eurovision entry, but it didn't quite connect with me. There is a little bit of an interesting message. Like, it's never too late to raise your voice up and sing a song. But the song itself didn't feel like it had that fire for me. You know, I think, I don't disagree.

And I think part of that might be that the, There's kind of an anti-chorus here. There's this instrumental section where you would expect this anthemic sing-along moment. But that's a dip in my expectation. It wasn't a nice surprise. I will say, in defense of this song, something that does happen during this wordless chorus is one of the greatest dance moves I've seen in this entire competition. Oh my gosh, it's the moose.

What I witness is a dance move that I can only call the moose. You take both of your hands, span them behind your head, and then just shake your hips in every way. And that's the moose. So I think that this song could win a TikTok competition. I do like that it has this throaty 80s new wave kind of vocal to it. The song's not there for me, but the dance is. Okay, so on fire from Lithuania has us on the fence. Let's see if Iceland's entry will spark your interest, Charles.

This is Think About Things by Dottie Fair. Oh my gosh, this is fun. Yeah, I'm into think about things. There are more people on stage than I can count. because I can't count very fast. And this is appropriate because my understanding is that Iceland has the highest number of bands per capita. I think everybody is in like 3.7 bands. That is a made up number, but I did hear the stat.

I believe it. I mean, for a country of its size and population, they really over-represent in the international music scene. I'm feeling this track. I love funky groove, the low baritone tones of the singer. And a set of lyrics that initially I thought were a pretty straightforward love song. Yeah. But then after doing a little research, I learned are about something else entirely. When this singer says baby at the beginning of the chorus, he's not saying baby like Diana

Ross sings baby or any, you know, millions of pop singers have sung baby. he's literally talking to his newborn child. And when he says, I want to know what you think about things, he's saying, I can't wait to know who you are. Like what you're going to be like. Oh, that's sweet. And when I think of the song in that way and hear this like, abelient rhythm and this instrumental horn breakdown,

I'm just like, oh, I get it. This is a celebration of life in the future. You know, one of the categories that isn't present is hookiness. But I'm just going to insert my own pop bias here. And this song has a hook. That has multiple hooks. It's just like hook upon hook. There are so many moments where I just want to hear that again,

whether it's the fun, syncopated vocal and the chorus. I will always be there so you can tell me anything. And I'll listen. Whether it's that horn breakdown. This is something that gets stuck into your ear. All right. So Iceland, making a strong showing. Charlie, we've got two more.

Okay. Let's visit Romania and listen to a song called Alcohol U by Roxanne. Okay, a lot going on here. Wow. Okay, definitely, that's a lyric I've never. overheard, and that's kind of a fun play on where it's... I'll call you when I'm drunk. That is...

I'm honestly shocked that no one has done that before. But isn't the winkiness of that lyric kind of contradictory or certainly dissonant to the sort of sentimental nature of the music? Like it feels... And maybe this is an issue of like, you know, through translation, jokes don't always land. Like, I hear that as really funny, but the music is very somber. The song sounds a lot like Stay by Rihanna.

Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah, it definitely does. It has that same piano intro. I hear what you're saying because there's another moment in the chorus that has the same impact for me. And it's when the singer drops the lyric, fake news. Yeah. Which seems to me that they're trying to do what Netta was talking about earlier, like trying to find a buzzy world.

that everyone, you know, around the globe would be talking about right now. But I don't know that it really lands for me. Yeah, I mean, I think they've already won with the alcohol you. That's going to translate it internationally, I'm sure. But the fake news, I just, this isn't a political song, so it feels like it's the wrong reference for the seriousness of the music. The vocal's great. I think it's got some diva quality to it.

But it, this could just be an issue of translation. and I'm not quite understanding the context. Absolutely. And that could apply to, I think, all of our assessments here. Yeah. But I think this is one where the performance kind of outshines the material. It doesn't have that strong message maybe that Neta said a good song has to have. I'm with you.

Okay. That brings us to our final contender. For this, we need to go to Russia and meet Little Big, with their song Uno. Oh, I know a little big. You know Little Big? Yeah.

Quick aside, one of the most fun things I've ever been able to do was watch Eurovision with a bunch of European friends and the collective arguing over who the best Eurovision contestants are

from people from multiple nations. It was like seeing, as Netsa put it, it's like, this is bigger than the Super Bowl. The fandom is bigger than all sports fandom put together and one of my friends played for me a little big song. They are so fun.

Yeah, so fun. I'm a new fan. Okay, here's Uno. This is great fun and absolutely meaningless. Pure uncut, Euro pop nonsense. Yeah. And I love it. It's really fun.

I mean, I don't think it can win because it completely lacks, I think, any. meaningful message. It definitely feels like it will translate across cultures. They're using multiple languages. They're referencing Spanish and Spanish music and Latin music, but also Europop. So I feel like people will like the timbers. They're going to enjoy the absurd dance moves. Everyone needs to go watch this video. But it doesn't really have a diva quality. I mean, I guess it's sold really well. Well, I think the iconicity of the performance here comes not from the vocals, which are, you know,

not particularly impressive, but from the personality and the kind of outrageousness of the performers. They really command the stage. I just don't think you're going to get action. Is that compelling of a... You can't go on a campaign tour and sell that.

You're totally right. And yet this song has been rattling around in my brain, stop. I don't think it's going anywhere. Okay, that's Little Biggs Uno from Russia. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, one of these six songs will be crowned the winner of our imaginary Eurovision 2020. Great. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough.

Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay. Ready? Ready. Do not sugarcoat something for me. No. No.

No. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power. in being unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. Immigration may be Donald Trump's signature issue.

President Trump is now targeting predominantly Democratic cities for ice raids and deportations. Dozens of protesters clashing with immigration and customs enforcement agents in Minneapolis Tuesday. We will begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to be.

to do in this space? It's talk about America and politics beyond the current president. So what do most Americans think about deportation and border security, period? I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ICE. When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want border at the border. They don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. the view on immigration from the bottom up instead of the top down. That's this week on America Actually.

Every Saturday in your audio and video feeds. Charlie, it's time to pick a winner. Maybe we just do a lightning round kind of revisiting each of these tracks real quick. Super quick refresher. Okay, we've got from Azerbaijan, it's a feminist anthem with a shocking chorus. It's Cleopatra by Offending. From Switzerland, Jan's Tears has a moving ballad reflecting on immigration, repandé moi. Lithuania's The Roup serve up classic Eurovision fodder with On Fire.

Dottie Frere of Iceland gives us the funkiest jam about fatherhood with Think About Things. to know what do you think about things believing Romania's Roxen likes to alcohol you

when she's drunk and Russia's little big have salsa meeting Europop with Uno there's really high stakes here

this is as I said we've got like international politics and whole national identities are resting

on this assessment, I feel like I have to take anything I've said so far is this is entirely how I hear it. And there's probably a lot I'm missing. But I do have a favorite. Yes, we have a thankless task before us. All of these songs are winners, but we're going to pick one. We won't do it alone. We have criteria from the 2018 winner Netta and we have true to Eurovision fashion input from the audience. So let's begin by reviewing what Netta said makes a great Eurovision hit. It has to have a strong, coherent message. It's got to have Hutzpah, diva quality. Hutzpah, diva quality, yes. And a set of lyrics that can appeal to anyone around the globe. With that of mine, Charlie, are there any songs here that you

feel don't make the cut? I love the moose dance, but I just didn't think that the lyric had that iconic quality and as someone who likes to write songs and express my passions, it's still just, it wasn't a big enough message for me. Vilnius's own, the Rup, we're so sorry, but you are disqualified. Okay. Are there any other songs that don't quite rise to the standard of something with international appeal, a strong message, and an iconic performance? I'm afraid I'm going to put Romania's alcohol.

you by Roxen on the chopping block. As we discussed, the song's titular metaphor kind of rocked our worlds when we heard it. But the other ingredients don't seem to quite add up to a song that has international appeal and a coherent message. So I'm sorry, Romania, alcohol, you. Gotta go.

You're disqualified. Okay, that leaves us with four. Azerbaijan, Switzerland. Iceland and Russia. Will it be the queenly tones of Offendi with Cleopatra, the emotions of Jan's tears, the funk of Iceland's daddy frere, or the absurdity of Russia's little big?

This is too hard for us to answer, Charlie. I agree. I put this to our listeners. We threw up a poll of these four songs on Twitter and asked, which is their favorite to win the imaginary Eurovision 2020. Before I reveal their answer, Charlie, do you have a favorite of these four? Oh, I feel like I'd have to go with the best layover nation in the world, Iceland.

I just love the song. And with the message that you shared with me as a new father, it won me over. Oh yeah, that's no. There's no contest. All right. So you're putting your money on Iceland. Yeah. I'm going to double down. Double or nothing. You're going Russia, aren't you? Oh, I'm so tempted. I'm so tempted. But Iceland has it for me. What about the people? What did they say? It's Iceland's think about things. It's unanimous. That's great. Congratulations to all the contestants. This experience of listening to 41 songs from 41 different countries has been some of the most fun I've had all year.

I cannot recommend enough that everyone go out and listen to these songs, watch the videos. You know, even without crowning an official winner, there's so much to celebrate in Eurovision 2020, the competition that never was. And for our winner, Dottie Frere of Iceland, congratulations. You have been awarded the unofficial, switched on pop crown. You know, this might come with some exciting new opportunities for you. As our 2018 winner, Netta can inform us, this is a big deal. Winning Eurovision turned Netta into an end. international celebrity. And with that was something kind of unexpected for her, the sense that she

became a role model and an inspiration for people. I was walking like in a very simple day with my boyfriend in the street. We were carrying this microwave of our new apartment, a very like, very like a normal couple thing to do and then we were just like going out the store there was like a little girl with a backpack she was looking at me and and she she was obviously she she was overwhelmed she was seeing me in the street and then she started to cry and you can obviously see on that girl that she was a little chubby and she had like a univore and she was like uh she had this bow in her hair, all these like characters. And she started, she couldn't even say a word.

And all she could say was thank you. And I, I collapsed. I, I didn't know what to say. Realizing that nine-year-old me didn't have this kind of figure, ever. Saying what it wants, doing what it wants, listening to no norms or, No boundaries, like saying, hey, I'm here to love you. And her new music has changed as a result of winning this competition. Her newest release, Ricky Lake, is a direct response to those people who come to her for guidance and for advice.

I get all these questions all the time, being an instant influencer, like all of a sudden. So it's baby I dance to my own. drum and if you don't, the new dumb, dumb, dumb. It's like the song is really silly because the answer is very silly. Like, we can't be other people. Everybody is already taken. And we're never going to be happy pursuing somebody else's life. I loved hearing this from Netta because it made me think of two things.

One is that there is life after Eurovision. And if you like these artists, Charlie, if you're a little big fan like me now, If you want to get down with the Roupe, like, there's no reason why you can't continue to follow these artists. I'm excited. I want to go watch all 41 videos. And secondly, I think what Ned is saying here is that Eurovision has something to teach us about pop music writ large. Pop music can be silly. It can be dumb and simple. It can be escapist nonsense. sense, but it can also be something more. It can be a way for us to come together.

It can be a way for us to see ourselves reflected in someone else's sound. And it can be a way that we understand the world we live in. So, like, I am forever a Eurovision convert. And if you want to know the power of pop, look no further than this competition. Eurovision 2020 lives on, Charles. Beautiful. Switched on Pop is produced by Bridget Armstrong, Megan Lubin, Ashott, Liz Nelson, Nate Sloan, and myself, Charlie Harding,

were edited, mixed, and mastered by Brandon McFarland, illustration by Iris Scott, leave, and social media by Abby Barr, and we're a part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. You can find more episodes at our website, switchedonpop.com, or literally anywhere you get your podcasts. Tell us who your favorite Eurovision entry was on social media, at Switchdon Pop. If you follow us on Twitter and Instagram in the future,

you might also get to be a part of choosing the winner of such a thing. It'll come back next week when we dig into one of the most interesting phenomena happening in popular music, the rise of the Lo-Fi Beats playlist. Until then, thanks for listening.