Switched on Pop - Feeling Fine with Faye Webster

Episode Date: October 11, 2023

The past two episodes of the show have been in Atlanta, and this week, we’re staying there with a look at singer-songwriter Faye Webster. Her music defies genre and convention: over the course of four albums, her sound has come to contain both pedal steel and indie rock as well as soft vocals and R&B sensibilities, all the while embodying the city of Atlanta. On this episode of Switched on Pop, we take a look at the work of Webster and how she builds her anomalous sound – even talking to the artist herself. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switched-on Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. So we've been hanging out in Atlanta for the past two episodes of the show. We're talking about crunk music, trap music. And today, I actually want to stay in Atlanta, but go in a totally different direction to the Atlanta-based artist, Fay Webster. In 2020, her song Better Distractions was honored by President Barack Obama as one of his favorite

songs. Her song, but not Kiss, is one of the best songs of 2023, according to our pal, Justin Kirtow at Vulture. And pitchfork said about her music, few R&B albums have a pedal steel, few alt-country albums have a rap feature. Webster, who has both, is an anomaly. I should stop asking people for assistance. I don't like to get caught up in commitment. I just stop asking these holes for forgiveness. Yeah. She thinks it's an unfa.

Her music is this blend of alt-country, R&B, indie rock, and it seems far from the sounds of Crunk and Trap that we talked about over the past two weeks, but her city has been important in her music making. She's been surrounded by Atlanta's hip-hop scene from the very beginning. She went to high school with Liliotti and was on the same label as Playboy Cardi. And she even named her third album, Atlanta Millionaires Club after her hometown. So what I want to do today, Nate, is listen to this much heralded, artist to see how Faye Webster builds her anomalous sound.

And in the second half, we'll even get to hear directly from Faye about how her hometown has played a part in it. But first, let's get our ears into her music. And I want to start with a song, Better Distractions, the same song that Barack Obama loved so much. Charlie, is it kosher to ask you to stop this track before we even get to Faye's vocals? Yeah, of course. What do you want to talk about?

Well, the soundscape that is setting up the song is very intricate. There's a number of elements. There's that effervescent pedal steel guitar, kind of washing over the whole thing, that feature mentioned by pitchfork. There's this kind of mid-tempo loping groove. There are these guitar stabs. Everything has its little place in the sound, and it's all kind of familiar, but maybe you've never heard it put together in quite this way before.

Yeah, I like that. It's both familiar but arranged in a unique sort of way. I want to hear how she treats that arrangement with her vocal. There's this real strong flow to the way that she sings. She rises up. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And she has this little motif that da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And it falls back down. Ebbing and flowing.

against this very sort of velvety, jazzy lounge chords. And then her vocal timbre is interesting. It's very forceful on one hand, but then she kind of pulls back each word and then kind of shows you this bit of vulnerability at the end of each phrase. So there's a combination of confidence and insecurity or something, I think,

and the way she sings these lines that you're describing. Yeah, there is a forwardness to that vocal. I actually really like how this song treats the instrumentation, which is big. It feels like it's this warm hug completely surrounding you. The drums are powerful. The pedal steel is all around you. And then her voice is just direct, clear, no reverb. Making it much more intimate in contrast to the instrumentation.

which feels like it's a little bit more cavernous. Right. And that's a conversation, too. She sings a line, one of those, like, limpid rising lines, rising and falling. And then there's a little space. And the instruments kind of respond, right? The pedal steel is like, yeah, I'm here for you. You know, it really actually makes me feel a sort of 1960s wall-a-s sound kind of quality.

It strangely reminds me of listening to, like, Be My Baby by the Ronnets, where the drums and the instrumentation are enormous and cavernous and the vocals are present and right in front of you. Okay. Was not expecting that reference. You see, and then Faye Webster's song has that same enormous reverberating instrumentation all around her. And her voice is direct, just like Ronnie Spectors. Okay, okay.

I mean, it's a different kind of wall. Like, the Be My Baby is like a great stone wall. And the Faye Webster is like kind of like millennial pink with some like kitschy frames on it. It's like it's a chiller wall of sound. Is that fair? It's fair, fair. But they also have a connection in that both songs are about pleading for a lover. Such a simple but highly effective chorus.

Do you think that's what Barack Obama likes about this song? Charlie? What do you mean? That simple effectiveness that you were just describing. Yeah. You know, I used to look forward to Obama's lists. I feel like they've lost some of their luster after Lucy Dacus retweeted his inclusion of boy genius. And she just wrote, war criminal, sad face. And ever since then, I've been like, ah, these Barack Obama lists don't quite hit as hard as they used to. Yeah, mixing art and foreign politics, challenging. But I do think that this song is excellent.

I agree. It's a stand. And it's introduced a new concept into our musical lexicon, the gentle wall of sound. The gentle wall of sound. The stucco wall of sound. For me, better distractions shows us that

Fay Webster is all about taking classic recording techniques in instrumentation, but placing them in a new context. I feel like you hear a lot of those same elements in another Faye track I really dig right side of my neck off her 2019 album that you mentioned earlier, Atlanta Millionaire's Club. All right, I got to stop you right there. I'm sorry, I don't mean to cut face off. No, I did it last time, so you can do it this time. I love this intro.

It's so simple, just two chords that feel like they want to go. go on forever and ever, F major seven, C major seven, back and forth, back and forth. I feel like they kind of place us in this infinite now where I, yeah, I could live in that song forever. Wow. Infinite now. Okay. Sounds like a title of a young adult novel.

And her whole vibe is back, right? It's like that's the same big drums, live instrumentation. It's cool. It's like, I love that continuation because it's really establishing her saying, her, like, this is my sound, right? You know, these elements, this is the Fay-Webster sound. It's cool. Yeah.

Charlie, can we listen to the verse? Yeah, of course. Okay, so keep that melody in your head for a moment, Charlie. And then let's keep going. I want to hear the chorus, and I want to hear that simplicity that you were just talking about. Wait a minute. Is the verse melody and the chorus melody exactly the same? Well, good ears.

They're not exactly the same, but they're very similar. Yeah. You're stepping on each other a little bit. It feels very seamless as you move from the verse of the chorus. Like the accompaniment changes. We get a little like kind of double time feel and the drums. But man, that melody is like you said, very similar. It kind of creates that simplicity.

And like, to be clear, not in a bad way. Not in a way like, oh, this is just taking. the easy way out or something. I think it keeps you in that infinite now that you were talking about earlier because it's hard to differentiate one from the other. It just kind of flows seamlessly. The melody continues.

It's all part of the same pitch fabric. It really kind of lets you sink deeper into this world. Just like she's singing about having this lingering memory, right? This like olfactory sense memory, the right side of my next. still smells like you. And it's like you're kind of staying in that moment because the melody is hardly moving.

Okay, so we're hearing that she creates these enchanting progressions and melodies that keep you in this overall vibe. And I think this is where we're really catching a lot of that country pedal steel twang sound, yet in the context of much jazier kind of chords. I mean, in the outro there, it's like the country pedal steel is in conversation with the much jazzier electric keyboard.

They're going back and speaking with each other. I imagine that this music spoke to you because, and I mean, I know you lug around a very heavy electric Rhodes piano. This music spoke to me first really because of that pedal steel sound. And if you'll allow me to indulge for a second, can we take a little pedal steel sidebar? Petal steel sidebar? It's permitted.

Okay, so do you know really what the pedal seal is, just to be clear? Okay. I know you use pedals that change the tuning. No, okay, I don't know. I don't know, all right? Okay, the basics of it, not a complete history. When you think of the Spanish style of guitar, like an acoustic guitar, when it was first introduced through colonialism into Hawaii, Hawaiian people took that guitar and tuned the guitar strings down into alternate tunings called slack key guitar tunings, which led to a whole new way of playing guitar.

I actually have a few examples all played by Johnny Lamb, an amazing pedal steel, lap steel, and slack key player. So then in 1885, a Hawaiian guitarist named Joseph Kakuku is widely reported to have started to play the guitar with a railroad track bolt, like a metal. bar that he would use to slide along the strings. And he would play the guitar horizontally on his lap using a lot of the same slack key tunings. And he created a whole new style of guitar. Wow. Actually, the first electric guitar was an electrified Hawaiian style of guitar. They called it a lap steel. The first one was it looked like a frying pan. It was literally just like a round piece of metal with a neck and some strings and you play it on your lap. And rather than using a lap, frets, you use a little slide, either glass or metal, and finger picks to pick the strings.

And so it creates this very sort of woozy, open, shimmery sound. And the lap seal was a mainstay instrument in the 30s and blues and 30s and 40s and Western swing music. Eventually, people wanted to be able to do more of the instrument. The problem is it's tuned to a single tuning and you have to use this bar, so it's actually really hard to change the notes around and change your chords. And so some ingenious inventors figured out around 1940 that you could put pedals underneath your lap, some at your knees and some at your feet. And each different pedal as you bend it would actually bend a string changing the tuning of the instrument.

It is one of the most beautiful and haunting sounds. And you can hear some early pedal steel. Actually, on a clip that we played in our daft punk series by the player Alvina, Ray and his talking steel guitar. I don't think I played you, though, his gorgeous solo originally. Well, first of all, Charlie, I feel like I wasn't that off with my definition of pedal steel. You were getting there. That was very illuminating, and I didn't know the deeper lineage, so thank you.

That clip you just played pretty remarkable. Yeah. Almost sounds like a human voice at points, but it's also maybe not like the typical country-fied pedal steel sound that you might associate with the instrument. Yeah, that country twang pedal steel sound that we associate so much with the instrument, that comes a bit more into the 50s. The pedal steel player Bud Isaacs was known for starting to really bend those various pedals and knee levers. You can hear his quintessential sound on Webb pierces slowly from 1954.

Okay, that's the pedal steel sound. That's like the dictionary definition. Totally. Cool. It is the dictionary definition. I think for most folks, when they think pedal steel, they're thinking this sort of country lineage. But for me, there's so much I love about this instrument. One is that it can be incredibly virtuosic.

Well, players can be if they're very, very trained on it. You talked about how Lvino-R-Ray can really make it sing like a human voice. Maybe this was implied in your description of the instrument. but it is notoriously difficult to play the pedal steel. It's very difficult. Like, it's hard to play just a lap guitar that you were describing because of those reasons, the tuning and the fact that you're using like a metal or glass slide. But then when you add these like pedal contraptions with your feet and your knees,

it just takes it to another level. It's a really impressive instrument. I feel like that there has been this pedal steel resurgence brought about by definitely artists like Fay Webster who are using it in new and creative ways. Publications like NPR, The New York Times have written about all the new ways that pedal steel has been occurring in Alt Country and other places. And even our acclaimed producer Rihanna Cruz has been noticing more pedal steel as of late. And so I thought maybe we could bring Rihanna in to share some of their favorite picks of new pedal steel sounds. You know, Charlie, I'm so happy that you're able to bring me in to talk about pedal steel because I really have been noticing it everywhere.

Serena, why don't you share three of your favorite songs you've been hearing pedal steel on as of late? Totally. I feel like pedal steel specifically has been more apparent in the indie rock scenes over the past few years. I really enjoy the song from this year Chosen to Deserve by Wednesday. I also love the song just like me by the band Slaughter Beach Dog, and they also love the song, Just Like Me, by the band Slaughter Beach Dog. also have a pedal steel player that they take around with them on tour, which is pretty cool. Got to see that. And I recently got into this artist Dougie Poole, who put out an album this year that's really great, and the track, High School Gym, has a lot of really cool pedal steel on it. So I've come to really like the sound because I feel as though it adds a kind of wistful contemplativeness to what otherwise would classify itself as

standard like indie rock, you know, and I think it harkens back for me to the work of like Graham Parsons, right? And the whole cosmic country movement. It's very soothing to me. And I think it places a kind of Western sensibility on

songs that are different from traditional country music. I'm also noticing it used a lot in live performances. I caught Tim Heidecker a few months ago and he had a pedal steel player. Like I mentioned, Slaughter Beach Dog has a pedal steel player. So I think it's really interesting because it adds a dynamic element to the guitar playing that I think suits itself well for rock music.

Rihanna, thank you for dropping by because I did not know any of those bands and I really dug those tracks, which is usually the case when you come by and elucidate us on what the youth are listening to. So that was very illuminating Goodbye Thanks for coming by, Rihanna Thanks for having me Try let's get back Let's get back to Faye Webster Yeah yeah yeah okay I mean

Faye's doing the same sort of thing Taking traditional sounds And putting them in new contexts I think that was one of our takeaways Maybe we can hear some of that On her song Kingston Let's do it The day that I met you

I started dreaming Remember in time About King's... Very hypnotic. Yeah. It's like all those sonic textures we've been describing, still present, pedal steel, kind of lulling you into this, like, trance-like state. Yeah.

And then this melody that just repeats over again. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Just over and over and da-da-da-da-da-da. Just like very hypnotic, very kind of transportive. Yeah. Very simple, right? But in a very careful way. And it's fitting.

Here we have a song talking about her. writing down her dreams, and I feel like the song exists in that place where you're kind of half awake, half asleep, just like when you are supposed to capture your dreams in a journal before you forget them as she talks about. It sounds like only a Fay-Webster song, and yet, you know, she uses this instrumentation in new ways each time. Here, there's this great conversation between the pedal steel and now the, the horns and keys. And just for Professor Sloan,

we get a lovely jazzy-style keyboard solo for a moment. Daddy like. The orchestration is rich. The players are just at the top of their game. And yet, I love also how it's never too serious. I mean, she literally wrote an album. I know I'm funny. Ha-ha.

And you get that playfulness in her vocal. He said baby, that's what he called me. I love you. Going from song to speech momentarily, kind of breaks you out of that hypnosis for a moment. Totally, yeah. You know what I'm thinking as we're listening to this, Charlie? Yeah.

This woman, she does not write a pre-chorus. These songs, they go from verse to chorus. And often, you know, the choruses are kind of like, less intense than the verses. So there's kind of this almost like an anti-climax you get with the chorus, which I feel like is very intentional. The chorus kind of takes you down a notch often, at least lyrically and melodically.

I feel like that is what creates so much of a Faye Webster sound is that when I hear one of our songs, it puts me in a very particular place and feeling. it is all about vibe like a rainy Sunday morning hanging out drinking a cup of tea is a perfect setting it feels very sensory

and I think some of that has to do with the fact that we're not getting these big ebbs and flows of epic pop builds or anything like that it's just like we're in this place two chords instruments which are familiar but being used in a novel way and these melodies which are

haunting and repeating, never going too high, never going too low, just putting you right in that perfect spot. Couldn't have said a better, Chuck. You know, I feel like we've turned over a lot of stones in this sound, but now, now it's, I would love to hear from the artist themselves, right? Let's go straight to the source, Charlie. What does Faye Webster think about all of all of this? That's perfect because I actually got to speak with Faye earlier this morning, and I asked her about her two new singles but not Kiss and Lifetime, which take this vibe and kind of put it in some new territory. I also got to chat with her about how her hometown of Atlanta has influenced the making of her music. Faye Webster, right after the break. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova, and I'm hosting a new podcast. podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay. Ready? Ready. Do not sugarcoat something for me.

No, no, no. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. My name is Faye Webster. I'm at home in Atlanta. Walk me through the story of the song, Lifetime, where it came from and how it came together step by step.

It was like one of the last songs that we did for the record. It came like pretty easy to me. It just felt like in general, just like a song about a literal lifetime or like even maybe just like spinning a lifetime with someone. There's a real sort of elegant simplicity to it. It's just really eight lines and a refrain in a lifetime. But you seem to literally stretch out time. How did you achieve this feeling? I don't know.

I'm really good at writing songs with. Two chords. And I think that part didn't happen until we were recording it where it was over. And I was like, wait, I don't want it to be over yet. And I was like, is there a way that we can just like repeat this for a while? And I'm so bad at music theory, but my keys player is really good at it. So I was like, is there like some alternating chords we can play that just like keep this on a loop but make it at the same time feel like it's changing? and it was like then when we were recording it that like that version came about, I guess.

I feel like it's also moving along at almost this sort of snail's pace. I feel like it's so much slower than I lead much of my life. How do you feel that playing at this slow pace, what does it do physically and psychologically to you and to the song? I like it. I feel like even when we play live, we, end up playing my song so much slower than they actually are. And I don't know if it's like me, like if I'm the one that's slowing everybody down. But I kind of just like being in the moment, we're not in a rush. But that one kind of just was like naturally slow like when we recorded it. And we record everything live. Like we play together. And we were never like, what tempo should this

song be? It was more like we sat down and played it. And it was like, okay, well, that's how this song exists now. Where does tempo come from for you then? Is it from the meaning of the lyrics? Is it the natural cadence of speech of the lyrics? Where do you arrive at that tempo if it is sort of spontaneous? I don't know. I think it's mostly like how I want to play guitar in that moment. I've always been a rhythm guitarist. Like I feel like maybe it's just from like me being the one that's writing the songs and I kind of have to do that. But like even just like performing it. I feel like that's like my lane, like my comfort zone. The rhythm section is really important to me when I'm playing live.

I feel like I'm always like cushioning myself in that corner just because I feel like, I don't know. I have a lot of fun doing it. Let's talk about but not kiss. I feel like this song, but not kiss, starts like in a quiet nap. And then you're suddenly shaken rudely awake. Can you tell me about this moment going from this very soft to very loud intensity? Yeah, I don't know. Like, I don't really know what I wanted when I wrote this song.

Like, for the longest time, this song existed as, like, a six-second memo. Like, that was my entire memo for months. And I was, like, sending it to the band, like, this is the what? Like, this is my favorite one on the record already. like it's not even done. I feel like it set like a precedent so early, like even just in the memo itself. And I feel like I kind of like got in this really nice pocket of a love song,

but like anti-romantic song almost. Like it was all these things I wanted to say in a really nice, caring, loving way, but like things that were like kind of hurting me, I guess. And you communicate. it with this contrast and dynamic, really quiet, soft guitar, quiet voice, and then this really intense moment that happened suddenly. Tell me about how you went from this six-second voice memo to orchestrating it and bringing that to life.

It was funny because when we were at Sonic Ranch and it came to this song, like, I think it was the six-second demo I played. And I was like, all right, let's go record it. And I kind of just like, I kind of knew what I wanted to say. Like I had a lot of things to say, and that's why there's three verses on it, which I feel like is more than most of my songs. But it took a minute to like fully become a full song. Like I remember them waiting for me in the studio. They were like waiting for me to write a chorus.

And I was like in my little. bungalow trying to write a chorus and I just couldn't think of like anything and I felt like everyone was waiting on me and I was kind of just like okay I'm just gonna like say yeah like that's all I can think of right now and I like brought it

I walked back to the studio and like played this like weird chorus I made and everybody was like yeah that's it and we just like I feel like that song specifically was like made like truly like that day almost How do you feel about that result of just that cathartic, yeah, as a chorus? I feel like I say so much that it's kind of like, yeah. Like, okay, yeah, I get it. Like, I don't need to, like, yeah, I didn't feel like I needed to say much else.

Like, I didn't even want to take away from, like, the dueling, like, feelings and the verses. Here's some very interesting processes to make your work. I've read that on your past records, you'll record your vocals at home into garage band in your kitchen, despite recording. band in the studio. Why this method and did you do it again on these latest songs? Yeah, I did. I don't know. I just want to be home and I like want to be around my stuff. And I feel like that's just like all I know how to do. So I just keep doing it. Do you think it contributes to your sound in any sort of way? I think so. I think I sound like I am really comfortable at home when I sing and I hope and feel

like that kind of goes through in my vocals when you hear it. So there you have a lot of control over the outcome. Yet, on the other hand, when you enter the studio with your band, you said that you really don't rehearse anything in advance. You intentionally want to just make it feel live. How come? I think I'm just really big on like first impressions. And I feel like even my demos, when I bring them to the studio,

I like don't let the band hear it beforehand. because I don't want it to alter their way of thinking or like plotting on it. Yeah, so I kind of just like doing it in the moment because I feel like that's the best representation we could get of a song. Like it's supposed to sound like this because off first instinct, it felt like I needed to play this or do this. Sometimes it's like the very first things you do even though it's an accident can sound really cool. Were there any happy accidents on but not kiss? Yeah. In the chorus for the yas, my keys player was like hitting wrong notes.

And we were like, that's actually so cool. Like, can you really, can you hit wrong notes more? Why did you like that? What does it do for the song? It just made it like this weird moment where I feel like the chorus is really pretty. Like the chords themselves are really pretty and like the pedal steel is like sliding up. And it's just like this really nice moment. And then it's kind of just like these weird two bangs that's like way wet.

You know, throughout your catalog, you use a lot of, obviously, rock, drums, guitar, and bass, but also honky tonk, upright piano, string orchestras, and pedal steel. Curious why you gravitate to these textures in your music. The pedal steel is so easy for me, just because that's like an instrument I grew up with listening to. Like, I listened to, like, a lot of, like, old country music. One of my favorite childhood bands was asleep at the wheel. And I just became obsessed with the pedal steel. So when I started making music, I knew that's always what I wanted.

It's my favorite instrument. Why does it speak to you? It's just so pretty. And I remember being, like, fascinated by it, like, watching it live. It's kind of insane. And then, like, now actually knowing how it works, it's even more insane. I always feel like the pedal steel is, like, doing calculus in your head or something. Yes.

Like, you literally are doing math. And moving your knees and your feet and your, like, hands. It's like, it's so crazy. Now, you have a background and music in the household of country and bluegrass. One of the challenges of the pedal steel, though, is that it has such a strong association and pull to country music. Do you feel that you either need to lean towards or against those associations to fit it into your work? No. I think Pistol has kind of, like, made his own style of, like, playing pedal steel almost.

Pistols my Pistol player. and we've been playing together for so long. I feel like he's almost found a way to really compliment me on just knowing me really well and use this instrument to help tell what I'm trying to say almost. You named your third album, Atlanta Millionaires Club After Your Home City. You're based in Atlanta, home to so much hip-hop.

How does your city and its music scenes contribute to your work? It contributes a lot. I think it wasn't until I started collaborating with other people. I'm so used to just making my own music. I think the biggest moment of that for me was when I was on awful records. I think of awful records, certainly a lot for a lot of its hip-hop coverage.

Was that a part of the kind of music you were contributing to? Yeah, for sure. I think the most songs I've ever sang on was for Ethereum, who's still one of my best friends. Yeah, and it was like the first time I've ever, like, worked on music, not just in my childhood bedroom.

So I feel like that was a really important time in my life. After doing these collaborations, did it change the way that you work on your own work in any kind of way? Yeah, I think it almost put me in a headspace of thinking less, if that makes sense. Like, I feel like when I would, like, sing on songs all the time, like, it would just be like these one-take kind of things and, like, whatever I had to say I had to say. And I kind of really enjoyed that, like, not overthinking in the moment. And I feel like I kind of just really try to just like, like when I write, just say things that are like in my head instead of like being like, okay, I'm writing a song. That sounds like that's just exactly what happened with but not kiss. Everyone sitting around waiting for your genius moment of inspiration for the biggest chorus with the most important thing ever to say.

And you had one very simple thing to say. Yeah, exactly. Atlanta is particularly known for the dominance of hip-hop. How does it feel to be sort of maybe against the grain of the predominant music scene in your city? I feel like everyone in Atlanta is like a creative. And I feel like that's why I like the city so much. Like every single friend of mine does something in some kind of like form. So like I know a lot of musicians, especially, yeah, being a part of awful for so long or so early on in my career.

I feel like that kind of was like the beauty of it, you know, like a group of collaborations. collaborative friends that just make music and want to like make cool stuff. And for that reason, I always felt like I belonged. Yeah. Switched on Pop is produced by Rihanna Cruz, edited by Art Chung, engineered by Brandon McFarland, illustrations by R.S. Gottlieb, community management by Abby Bar, executive producer, Neshaqqq, we're member of the Vox Media Podcast Network and a production of Vulture. We want to know your favorite uses of the pedal steel in music. What are you listening to? Tell us at Switched on Pop on all the social things. You can also go to our website, switch onpop.com to find out more about the show and hear episodes or just go listen to them anywhere else you get podcasts. And buy some cool merch.

Buy some cool merch, says Charlie. We're talking totes. We're talking hats, talking mugs. Essentials, right? Things you need in your life. Tanks teas. When you need that little extra dose of pop in your coffee. That's what I'm talking about.

The extra little dose of harmonic analysis in your tote bag. then you go to the Switch Jump Pop merch site. And finally, next week, next Tuesday, we'll have a brand new episode, and it involves our own Rihanna Steel Cruise talking to a little band called The Talking Heads. So I don't think you want to miss that. Yeah, well, until then, thanks for listening.

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