Switched on Pop - Fleetwood Mac perfected turning drama into hits

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

In 1973, before their ascent to rock superstardom with Fleetwood Mac, Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks were just two young lovers making music in Los Angeles. Their debut album, Buckingham Nicks, though commercially unsuccessful at the time, would prove to be the catalyst that changed their lives. When Mick Fleetwood happened to walk into Sound City Studios and overheard Buckingham's masterful guitar work, he knew he'd found what his band desperately needed given the departure of their guitarist Peter Green. Fleetwood invited Buckingham to join the group, and Buckingham agreed on one condition: his musical and romantic partner, Stevie Nicks, would come too. This fateful meeting would birth the legendary lineup that created Fleetwood Mac and Rumours, albums that would define a generation. Yet all this time, the band's origin story, captured in Buckingham Nicks, has remained locked away in aging vinyl archives – until now. Grammy-winning guitarist Madison Cunningham and virtuoso multi-instrumentalist Andrew Bird have breathed new life into this historic recording with their interpretation, Cunningham Bird. Cunningham, celebrated for her sophisticated fingerpicking and intricate compositions, joins forces with Bird, whose distinctive violin work and plaintive vocals have earned him critical acclaim. Their reimagining of this pivotal album offers fresh insight into both Fleetwood Mac's enduring influence and the rocky romance that sparked their success. I sat down with the duo to discuss their approach to this legendary material and what drew them to resurrect these long-lost songs. Switched On Pop spoke with Madison Cunningham and Andrew Bird about how they adapted Buckingham Nicks into Cunningham Bird Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're tired of endless scrolling to figure out where to eat, same. I'm Stephanie Wu, editor-in-chief of Eater. We've just launched the new-ish and way better Eater app. It has all the restaurants we love, gives you personalized picks wherever you are, and serves up smarter search results just for you. You can find my list of the best places for martinis and fries in New York City. And save your favorite spots, share lists, follow editors, and book right in the app. Download the eater app at eaterapp.com.

It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switchedon Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. Hey, would you say that we're living in a sort of Fleetwood Mac Renaissance? The Macassants? Absolutely. What do you think makes them so appealing to folks?

Okay, if I had to break it down, Fleetwood Mac have incredible songwriting, Immaculate production, stunning vocal harmonies. And so much drama. These are definitely all true. I feel like there are a lot of bands born out of the 1960s that have a lot of these qualities, and yet very few get to have songs return to the Hot 100 because of their ongoing multigenerational appeal. I mean, Fleetwood Mac came out of the late 60s. They were a British blues group founded by Mick Fleetwood on drums, John McPhee on bass,

Peter Green on guitar, eventually Christine McVee joins on keys. In addition to a number of rotating cast of characters later, the band evolves into a pop rock sensation in the 70s when they add the Californian duo Lindsay Buckingham and Stevie Nix, and the band takes off on their self-titled so-called white album from 1975. And then tops themselves with their 1977 album, Rumors. It's been five years since the band has toured. It's been more than 20 years since they've released a new album. Tragically, they've lost bandmates, including Christine McVee, who died in 2022,

creating a major riff for the band, a loss for fans, really marking the end of Fleetwood Max active years. And nonetheless, I feel like this band and their music is at a new peak. I feel like they have reached a legendary. nostalgia phase. Yeah, if you had told me that in the 2020s, the hot new band on the scene would be Fleetwood Mac, I would have been like, what are you smoking?

But 2020, we had that viral TikTok. I want to say the guy's name was like the dog, the doggy face or something, is that right? 420 Dogface 208. 420 Dogface 208. This dude just chilling with his handlebar mustache and his skateboard, drinking a mountain dew, listening to Fleetwood Mac and getting like

bigillions of views. An ocean spray cranberry juice to be clear. Okay, okay, I stand corrected, okay. He got a free car and eventually built a house out of the donations that he received for this video. Unreal. Because he helped bring Fleetwood Mac's only number one single Dreams back onto the Billboard charts.

And since then, we've had Amazon Prime's video series Daisy Jones in the 6 from 2023 that follows a fictional 1970s rock band that is basically Fleetwood Mac. Thinly veiled. Then you have the multi-tony award-winning play Stereophonic that is also loosely based off of the making of Fleetwood Mac's iconic 1977 album rumors, but I don't know how they're getting away with this thing because it's basically just Fleetwood Mac. The Macassants continues.

There's a great book called Dreams, The Many Lives of Fleetwood Mac. by Mark Blake that was released this October. And there is a new album, just a few weeks old, by Andrew Bird and Madison Cunningham, that unearths the long-forgotten recording Buckingham Nix that's a precursor to Fleetwood Mac. We're going to hear from them in the second half. But to understand the appeal of Fleetwood Mac,

I feel like we need to listen to their music and arguably two of their most important songs. To get us there, let's go back to the late 1960s. We're in the San Francisco Bay Area where you and I started our show Well, not the 1960s We started in the 2010s, but We're back in the 1960s, stay with me here

You're wearing a flowy scarf, okay? The pop smoke is wafting over H. Street. Lindsay Buckingham and Stevie Nix They're nearby in the South Bay They meet in high school, they form a musical partnership and join a band called The Fritz. A romantic relationship ensues.

They move to L.A. to make it on their own without the band, and they release an album called Buckingham Nix in 1973. It's a commercial failure, but one day, Mick Fleetwood, the drummer of Fleetwood Mac, also half named after him, walks into Sound City, a storied L.A. studio, and Lindsay Buckingham is there. He plays some of his tunes for Mick Fleetwood, and Mick Fleetwood is in need of a great guitarist for the band, so invites Buckingham into the band, who also brings along Stevie Nix, his partner. And it's not long before this mixed nationality, mixed gender ban starts to fall apart in the making of their album rumors.

John McVee and Christine McVee's marriage starts to fall apart. McFleetwoods got his own marital issues. And Buckingham and Nick's relationship is absolutely deteriorating. And they write a twin set of breakup songs that really go on to define this couple and the whole band for decades to come. this breakup births the immortal pop songs Go Your Own Way written by Buckingham and Dreams written by Nix that serve as contrasting musical accounts of their breakup. Nix says that they're effectively the same song

written by two different people about the same relationship. Let's begin with Go Your Own Way. I've heard this song so many times. I don't think I've ever thought about the genesis of it. Yeah. and the sort of extracurricular meaning of it, much less considered it the other side of a coin with dream. So I'm excited to hear these ubiquitous songs in a new light.

Yeah, I'd always just heard this as like an uptempo, guitar-driven, rocker, you know, raw, emotive vocal, some kind of go your own way, break up, whatever. But there's so much more going on here. And where it all begins for me is the real. of the song. You see, Lindsay Buckingham had been listening to the Rolling Stones Street Fighting Man and was inspired by its beat. I wouldn't have made the connection, but now I hear that both of these songs get a lot of

energy from this rhythmic dissonance between the guitar and the drums, mainly, I think. Yeah. Where the guitar is doing sort of this conventional strumming pattern. but then the drums are like kind of emphasizing these weird off beats that don't quite line up and you're like wait where is the meter

of this thing? Yeah it's all about trying to confuse you you don't know where the downbeat of this song is and that's exactly what Lindsay Buckingham does and go your own way okay Nate yes

where's the one well it's not where Mick Fleetwood is putting that snare hit every measure. I know that for sure. Yes. That would be too simple. No. I think it's right before that snare hit.

It's like one, snare hit. One, snare hit, you can go, one snare. You can go, you're like, is that, is that right? I think it's up for debate. You have three instruments here, each doing their own thing. You have an acoustic guitar strumming, an electric guitar chugging along, and this snare and tombs on the drums, everybody is hitting different parts of the beat,

quite syncopated, nobody's gelled together. I think this mirrors all of the tension in the band of everybody doing their own thing. And we really don't know where that sense of home downbeat is until we get to the chorus and everybody starts playing along. So the band only finds unity. when they're telling each other to break apart. Kind of, yeah. Isn't that dark?

And I should note, you know, in the rhythm section, supposedly the way that they made the song was that they tried to record it live together. Lindsay Buckingham even played an electric guitar with his guitar amp in the other room so that he could mic it in isolation, but he could play along with the whole group. And basically, it didn't work.

But when they were tracking, Stevie Nix was playing tambourine, And in the final thing, there is no tambourine with Stevie Nix because this song is a send-off to her, I think. I'm not sure. Whoa, so there was a Stevie Nix tambourine part that got left on the cutting room floor. That's what I'm telling you. And instead of actually tracking this thing live, this song came together as a set of overdubs. Every single track is recorded separately.

So the band only works when each of their members is performing in isolation. That's a pretty clear metaphor for the state of affairs here. Yeah. But it's also interesting because I feel like one of the hallmarks of this group and one of the reasons they've stood the test of time is the sort of factory sealed production where every musical element is so crystalline and perfect and it still sounds so tight and fresh, you know, half a century later in a way that fractiousness was also part of the secret of their success in creating this pristine sense. It took four months and three different recording studios to make this track. And you could say that, oh, it all is a metaphor for the band's internal turmoil. Or you might say, you know, Lindsay Buckingham is a real perfectionist in his production and made an absolute smash by working it out piece by piece and getting it just right. Nonetheless, the fissures in the music are present most potently, I think, in the lyrics. Yeah.

It's not just the lead, go your own way. It's from the very beginning. Kind of accusational here. Yeah. Loving is not the right thing to do. It's like, I could give you my love, but you won't take it from me. Yeah. This is very much a, it's not me, it's you.

It's a little toxic. And Buckingham really pissed off Nix when he put in this line in the second verse. Tell me why. everything turned around, packing up, shacking up, all you want to do. So essentially saying like you're not committed, you're always leaving and sleeping with someone else? Yeah, exactly.

That's nasty. It's really nasty. Nix would say that when he was saying this on stage live, because the crazy thing about the band is that it keeps on going for days. So bananas. You should just like seething at him whenever he would sing this line. I might be the only person in the world to hear this, but I just need to put it out in case there's someone.

else out there with this same experience. I always thought they were singing, you can call it thunder along the way instead of another lonely day. You can call it thunder. And it was only until very recently that I learned it was something else. Just need to know if anyone else had that same experience. Please write me. Well, I wonder if Stevie Nix maybe had that experience because thunder is an important

metaphor in her response song dreams, I think there is no better way to respond to anger over a song that so maligns you than to write your own response song. Man, if Go Your Own Way was all about like rhythmic complexity and sort of caustic anger, this song is all about simplicity and like the search for peace. It's so placid and almost ethereal. The lyrics are all about being washed clean, you know, like finding some kind of redemption. A little nasty as well. We'll get to that, I think. But then the last thing I just have to say is the chord progression of this song is incredible.

It's just these two chords oscillating back and forth for the entirety of this track. Is there a bridge? Is there like any harmonic departure in this song, Charles? Nope. The song just oscillates back and forth. F to G. doesn't stop four minutes

wild it never resolves home to see the home key I mean there are definitely precedence for this I think light my fire by the doors

you know that it would be untrue you know that I would be a liar John Coltrane's my favorite things does the same thing but this is this feels a little different here. This is like really creating this sort of trance-like vibe, I would say. And then you could almost miss the intensity of the lyrics for how soothing the music is, I think.

It's really fitting song, I think, for Stevie Nix. She says that she wrote this in 10 minutes. She was in a studio and needed a place to sit and write and got access to Sly Stone's special room that had shag carpeting all over the place, a vaulted bed with a velvet rope roping off the bed

and a Fender Rhodes piano. And, you know, she was sort of known as not being, you know, virtuosic on any instrument. But she was a very active songwriter. And I kind of get, like, if you're not a great piano,

so you might sit down, just go like, there's a chord F. There's another chord G. I've got my vibe. Yeah. And then it just poured out, you know, this raw emotional track. And when she brought it to the band, the reaction wasn't universally positive.

Christine said that she thought it was boring. By the way, critics also agreed when they finally hear the song. Rolling Stone said that Dreams is a nice but fairly lightweight tune. And her nasal singing is the only weak vocal on the record. Cream said that they could lyrically go without the meteorology. lecture in the chorus. That's cool. That's savage.

This song is all about that vocal, though. In fact, when they tracked the song, Nick's first recorded a guide vocal. This is a very common thing you do. Just sort of like a scratch vocal so that then all the other players can play along and then you'll maybe redo your main vocal and do harmonies and so on.

Now here you go again. But the scratch vocal had all of that just deep emotion, that they kept the scratch vocal as the final thing. So it's intentional. And I think all of those little moments of rasp and imperfections are what make it so potent. I mean, is there a better opening lyric than this? Like, right away, shots fired. Yeah.

If you hear this as a toy, twin song to go your own way, which claimed that, you know, I could give you my love, but you won't take it. Now, she's saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're the one who's like asking for freedom. And by the way, when they were an early relationship in L.A. and they were totally broke trying to make ends meet, she was the one waiting table so that he could sit at home all day, working out his guitar parts. Typical. Yeah, right? So shots fired from the very beginning. And I think you picked up something in the chorus as well that is not as maybe placid. as the song sounds.

So first of all, we have finally your thunder that you misheard in the other song. Thank you. Ah, there it is. I've never completely understood the inaccurate metaphor of thunder only happens when it's raining because, of course, there can be thunder and lightning without rain. Wow, you sound like cream, magazine. No, no, no, no. I think mixed metaphors or inaccurate metaphors are totally fine.

I feel like it's open to interpretation of like eruptions of desire and love only happen. and when there's lots of emotion pouring out is kind of how I hear it. That checks out. But then she's like, players only love you when you're playing. Like, you're only going to get with other players because you're a player, or you're only loved when you're playing on stage as a musician. Oh. Maybe.

Interesting interpretation. And then when you're off stage, you're kind of a jerk. And then this is where I feel like the strongest connection between the two songs exists is the lyric, say women, they will come and they will go. She's saying this to Lindsay Buckingham. who has previously accused Stevie Nix and his song of... Packing up and shacking up, yeah. You just want to sleep around.

And finally, when the rain washes you clean, you'll know, you'll know. As it's kind of like, after this big emotional storm, you'll finally realize, like, you made a mistake. This sounds pretty resentful to me at this point. I feel like this song has more emotional depth than go your own way, because the second verse completely alters our experience of this seeming resentment. It's only me who wants to wrap around your dreams and have you any dreams you'd like to sell. It's kind of saying like, once the rain washes you clean, I hope you realize, like, I'm still dreaming about you. The song is called dreams, but the title is buried in the second verse.

Like this could have been called Thunder only happens when it's raining The rain washes you clean Or even what you lost But she tells us that it's actually about a dream She hopes that both these lovers are having That like there's still there's still a chance Damn Charles

Have you shared this theory with a 420 doggy face 88? I've not, Stevie Nix has not been answering my phone calls recently So I think that remains Remains to be seen then You pointed out at the top of the episode, but one of the things that makes them so enduring is that Fleetwood Mac has these skills of songwriting and production that I think still sound very contemporary. In a lot of ways, Dreams to me is one of the earlier contemporary pop songs.

And a lot of it has to do with the fact that it is just a loop. It is these two chords, F to G, back and forth, never resolving. This is a very common way of writing today. Getting in a room with a computer, setting up a little loop, two or four chords, and writing as many melodies against that as you can until you get a whole song. We call that process toplining, right? And that's kind of what's happening in Dreams. In fact, Dreams is a loop. They literally looped Mick Fleetwood's drum part to make it more hypnotic.

It's a tape loop, an actual tape loop going around and around. Yeah. And they build each section so that it feels completely. independent, even though the harmony is so simple underneath. Like, you start in the intro and verse, drums, bass, guitar, flying all around, roads, piano. You move into the pre-cores. We add harmonies. The keyboard starts climbing up to a higher octave, arpeggiated guitars, and vibes. That is a contemporary pop production to me. That's a connection. That's a connection. to our modern musical landscape

that I wouldn't have made, Charles, but one that I could do is the fact that something we talk about a lot in this podcast is how much pop artists today mind their personal lives for their musical material. And I feel like now listening

to this track, I'm like, did Fleetwood back kind of start that? I did want to sort of dig through the history on this topic, because obviously people have always used their personal lives as source material for music. Like literally 11th century tubedores used to write about courtly romances and the scandals that were happening at court. Lord Byron in the 19th century, the poet famously wrote about his scandalous love affairs. Edith Piaff had famous relationships that ended up in her songs.

Joni Mitchell, John Lennon, Yoko Ono, Marvin Gaye had an album about divorce. but the thing about Fleetwood Mac is that they take it to another level, right? This is not one relationship. This is so many relationships. Buckingham Nix, McFleetwood getting divorced, John and Christine McVee, McFlead having a relationship with Stevie Nix

and like 17 other people, they're all getting together, all breaking up, and they're all writing songs and performing about those songs and making it their identity in a way that contemporary artists do too. Like Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears, laying their relationship

out in music. There's Beyonce and Jay-Z hashing out their marital issues in their music. I just do over. What if you over my shit? Levera Rigo and Sabrina Carpenter detailing their inner lives with celebrity boyfriends for fans to pick apart and try to find all the clues

to see what's really going on in their personal lives. And you're probably with that blonde girl who always made me out. Maybe you didn't mean it. Maybe Blonde was the only rhyme. So Fleetwood Mac, not the inventors of this approach of personal songwriting, but maybe they perfected a certain aspect of it. They perfected it. They took it to a whole new level.

And if you really want to understand where it all began, You have to go back to that long, out-of-print, early recording by Lindsay Buckingham and Stevie Nix before they joined Fleetwood Mac. Their album Buckingham Nix released in 1973 failed to chart in its time, but it has huge cult status amongst fans that can still find old vinyl imprints of it. You can not find that recording on streaming services. You can't even find it on CD. What? I know. That is until just a few weeks ago, the musicians Andrew Bird and Madison Cunningham collaborated on a new project called Cunningham Bird, like Buckingham Nix. It is a track-by-track interpretation of the Buckingham Nix album, and it features exceptional arrangements and harmonies.

provides a whole fresh perspective on Buckingham and Nick's early musical partnership and their creative dynamic before the Fleetwood Mac days. After the break, you're going to hear from Andrew Bird and Madison Cunningham about that storied lost album. Attention, Spotify. Has arrived on the new Good Girl Jasmine Absolute of Carolina Herrera, a fragrance intense with carathe gourmet and addicive.

Imagine a jasmine emvolventy, tofu caramelized, and tonka-tostada. A combination that seduce from the first instant and he has a wella. Good Girl Jasmine Absolute, hypnotic, irresistible. Discoveringlaoil and let's bea back involver for susentia.

Before joining Fleetwood Mac, Lindsay Buckingham and Stevie Nix were young lovers and musical partners struggling to make ends meet in Los Angeles while recording their debut album Buckingham Nix. It's long been unavailable. That is until 2024 when Andrew Bird and Madison Cunningham

revived this cult classic in an interpretation of songs that they're calling Cunningham Bird. Madison Cunningham is a Grammy Award-winning musician known for her sophisticated guitar finger-picking and her intricate and lyrical compositions, and Cunningham sings alongside her longtime friend and collaborator Andrew Bird, a virtuosic multi-instrumentalist, known for his creative violin playing, whistling, and plaintive voice. I think their update to this long, stashed away recording has a lot to tell us about the influence of Fleetwood Mac and the complex creative partnership

in the Buckingham-Nicks saga. I'm Madison Cunningham. I'm Andrew Bird, and we are in my backyard in Los Angeles. And we just released an album called Cunningham. Bird. You have recorded this album together, an adaptation of Buckingham Knicks. That album is sort of this like,

lost album that presages Fleetwood Mac. Could you share a little bit about the story of what that record is? Yeah. It's that record you find in a garage sale or like a used record store, and everyone knows the cover of them, topless on the cover and looking impossibly beautiful and airbrushed and all. And it was a very ambitious record that the two of them made when they were together. Lindsay Buckingham and Stevie Nix.

It's got a lot of songs. It kind of hinted what's to come with Fleetwood Mac, but not many people know the music. There's not a single measure on this album that's not trying to impress you with some interesting studio move or something, you know, with lots and lots of drum fills and drum pushes and syncopations.

And you can take the bones of all these songs, and like strip them back and as we say pull up the shagro carpeting and kind of see what kind of space there is and and find the room in the song is there songs are there it's just the way the production was in 73 was was a little you know heavy-handed perhaps i identify with it in a sense of like they're young i remember when i was making albums in my 20s i tried to throw every interesting thing I could into every square inch of the album. I relate to that too in a lot of ways. I feel like I've just recently kind of grown out of the like,

oh, I don't want to play every chord and I want music to kind of feel easy. Madison, is there a song in this record for you, which really captures that youthful quality? Yeah, the first song that really grabbed my attention was long distance winter. And I actually felt like that was the song that sounded immediately a little bit most like something that you and I would have maybe written just in terms of like those first three chords of that song. I mean, we were, we were honestly trying to figure out like how playful to be

while we were making it like, how far could we take this? Could we refurbish this melody and put it here? And, you know, like it was like finally like got to a place where we've, where we were like found the marriage between the complexity that we enjoy and the simplicity that is so important to like exposing the heart. I come running down the hill, but you're fast, you're the distance winner. One of those songs that really stood out to me is having that sort of youthful ambition, throwing everything you've got at it, is their song without a leg to stand on. The chorus is just so syncopated and challenging to sing, and yet you sort of found this new way into it.

But you know that I can't show. How did you go about wanting to adapt these songs, both honoring the nostalgia that people have for Fleetwood Mac and Buckingham and Nicks, and yet also make it fresh? I had studied the album more than Madison before we went into the studio, and that leg to stand on has those pushes I'm talking about. Like, you know that I can't let go, boom. That kind of stuff.

And I couldn't let go with that for a while. I just didn't want to let go of that push because it just felt it was physically in my bones already. Madison was just kind of... Just kind of kept not doing that push until I finally... Remember one time we were doing it and I just did it to spite you just kind of... That's the one time we fought in the studio is he spited me with a push. Yeah, it was rough.

It was rough. But then, yeah, that was the first one that came together. like, oh, this is something else entirely. And that song in particular felt like, like maybe we unlocked the sort of sweet tooth pop song that was in there. I think what the pushes did was it kept feeling like it would just be these weird sort of like breaks in the flow. And I think what we ended up finding was this constant movement in that song.

And I really love when songs do that when they still like ebb and flow dynamically, but they never stop rolling. And you feel like you're on some sort of like a track or a rock. or something and that song, it feels like every time I hear, I imagine, like, riding in the back of a carriage of horses, like, through the prairie, just continuing to move. Look around that you won't see me, just a picture of what I used to be. There ain't nothing to save me. Working on any material that is Fleetwood Mac related is necessarily in relation.

relationship to their complex relationships. Buckingham and Nicks were young teenage lovers. They make this album together, famous breakups, love affairs, all of this is a big part of the band. How did approaching this material affect your own collaboration and your own artistic partnership? How do you go about approaching these songs about teenage lovers at a different point in history between two very different people where you're often flipping genders, on these records. Yeah, and you've said it well that a different point in history

is a key line, because it's like, they were coming out of the 60s where, you know, guys referred to their girlfriends as their old ladies. And, you know, it's like, there was like a,

and then the 70s, the guitar god, McKizmo and, and gypsy, gypsy woman, gypsy lady. I was like, that stuff doesn't really speak to us now,

you know. And so we thought about just flipping everything gender-wise. But that didn't really stand up. We had to take it one tune at a time. But definitely Lola My Love was one that made sense to flip. Because neither of us could quite stomach singing that as is. Yeah, Lola My Love is kind of horny 70 guys, blues, rock. Absolutely.

We did things mostly in order, and as we got towards the end of the album, both those tunes, I think, Frozen Love are like pretty weird. It almost broke me. Yeah, both those songs. We were just like, thank God there at the end. We just kept putting them off

because we didn't know how to handle them. Then again, both of them turned out, like we're really happy with them. There's some of my favorite songs on the record, actually, which I think there's something to be said about that. There's the most trepidation and the most work that it took to get them to a place that felt relevant. And I think it paid off in some way. But, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I'm actually curious, Andrew, how you ended up emotionally relating to the songs.

I know for myself, I just, there was a lot of, like, personal things I was going. through that kind of started to reflect what some of the lyrics were saying. And previously before that, I hadn't really been attached to the lyrics at all. And kind of in the middle of recording, I was like finding myself really resonating and becoming very attached to these songs. And just us singing them too. Like that one song, don't let me down again. I love singing that one because it's just like you get to just put all of your anger into a lyric like that. Don't treat me this way. I'm going to make it again someday.

You were definitely going through something. I was more just worried, worried about getting sued. You were going through something too. I guess so. I mean, I was just trying to like just trying to relax into it. And I was the whole time, I was like wondering, why are we doing this? What? And it's so tricky because we couldn't rewrite any lyrics.

So our moves were pretty few. They were really important as to what they were going to be. Yeah. This is obviously not a Fleetwood Mac approved project. It doesn't need to be. No. You can get mechanical licenses to record covers of any album, I believe. So was there concern of like there's a few changes of pronouns by changing lyrics?

It's like its own thing. And that Fleetwood Mac would like not be happy with this project? We just didn't quite know why it was out of print. Yeah, it made it, made it suspicious as to why you couldn't, like a major record that could get a lot of attention, at least not at the moment, but in retrospect, why you can't hear it, you can't stream it. What do you learn in the process? Absolutely nothing.

I mean, I learned that there's some very vague legal language that may be a little nervous, that's all. But it's all good. It's all good. So far, so far so good. I mean, you are allowed to cover whatever you want without getting the approves. I just heard anecdotally that getting the blessing of Stevie or Lindsay has not always gone so well in the past for some people. That's all. Yes, it's a group of covers, but this is an interpretation on this record. You have completely made it in your own image.

And one of the things that really stands out is that your sound palette as musicians almost leans in the exact opposite direction as Fleetwood Mac and Buckingham Nicks. that the guitar sound, for example. Lindsay Buckingham's guitars are often triple-tracked, super bright, taking over the entire mix. And Madison, your guitar is deep and low and plucky and a little bit more removed. There's some really lovely violin parts that I think bring this record to life, for example, on crying in the night, which is a sort of bluish. lamey song as originally recorded.

I think you really sort of change the feeling of it and make it feel more like a lament. You know, it kind of saying, oh, there's this girl, she's around town. She's going to loop you in, but, you know, she's going to go and chase some other guys, and she's going to break your heart. Yeah. And I think you lean into the broken heart more, especially with this feeling of crying in the night, your violin soars, these high notes that really sort of text paint the lyric. Oh, okay, that's good to hear.

That's sick. It went in this sort of what we call posh, we're calling a posh direction with the kind of of dun dun dun dun dun dun it's I was worried that it had strayed from what the song really was which is a song warning this guy about the town flusy like what I feel like that warning like I would imagine like has to come from like a softer place you know then like don't you Fuck it. I mean, I don't know. It's probably more effective if it comes from a posh place. Right. This is one of the ways that I feel like the record has

changed a lot. And I actually have the pleasure of having experienced Buckingham Nix first through the two of you. I saw you perform the album live and full at Newport Folk this year. It was a total delight. I had never heard the songs. And then I eventually went and found a YouTube stream and I listened to the original and I have gone back and listen to theirs and yours back and forth and back and forth. I prefer the updated version. But part of the reason why is I think that we get so much more relationship. I think in the framing

of Buckingham Nix, it really does lead with Buckingham in so many ways. I think on a lot of the records, Nix does feel a little bit like a and Nix. And here, this, not only have you switched it, because it seems like your names were just destined to create this record kind of happened, but it flips the gender dynamic in the title. And you really split duties throughout the entire thing. This feels like a really natural collaboration. And so I want to go back to a question that we probably unintentionally evaded, which is how has it altered, you know, this album about relationships,

this very famous relationship, how has it changed your creative collaboration? Working on this record reminded me so much of like, oh, what I do love so much about music, though, is simplicity. Like, and really getting over all of my life. like, you know, crushes of like, oh my God, like, what about, we play five chords here. You know, it's like I'm really getting to a place where I just don't, I listen to music so differently and what I want from it is so different than what it was even like two years ago. But I also learned, in making this record, I heard things come out in Madison's voice that I hadn't

heard before, like on Crystal. Do you trust your first initial feeling? like a really deep, deep sadness. Like a different tone in your voice. And it was really emotional, especially I think Crystal is the one that kind of embodies it. Like I haven't heard that yet on your albums yet. And it was really like, whoa, that's something else. No one's going to be comparing you to Johnny Mitchell anymore, hopefully.

I hope not. Final question for you all. What is the enduring appeal of Fleetwood Mac? I mean, with most stuff, I'm in great melodic songwriting. But, you know, this album also is very interesting because it's all there. The whole dynamic between Stevie and Lindsay became very clear as we're working on it. Yeah. And Lindsay's like, I'm going to go conquer the world.

And you can come along if you like, but you're going to have to like really step it up, okay? And her songs are like, and you love only the tallest trees. It's like a conversation. It's an argument between two lovers. It's like you, you just appreciate like big phallic things. And so she's like trying to cut them. down to a human size. But then she's talking about a lot of water and crystals.

And together they make up like the full range of how you can live in this world. That's well said. As well said. How about for you? What is the enduring appeal of Fleetwood Meck? Why are they having such a renaissance and just keep on igniting new generations? It seems like they are, like you said, like they're a counterweight to each other. And I think that is always a powerful force.

It's like two things that, and obviously in Fleetwood Mac was many things. But I think obviously Stevie and Lindsay kind of being like at the forefront. I think Stevie is also just like an unforgettable voice. Like nobody sounds like her. And no, you know, nobody can really. And some of their songs, like I just heard dreams the other night and I jokingly said, oh, not dreams again. But as the song played, I talk about it.

a two-cord song that isn't boring and like still has arc and dynamic and I think they really found something that is is like they found what it means to be classic and not everybody does that. I think that's why they've, they're still just like in our, in our pop culture and in our like, you know, in our relevance. My headline is that they figured out what it actually means to remain time. Will we get a bonus edition with Dreams and Go Your Own Way? No. I don't think you'll ever be. No. But if it's a Christmas version, yes. Like with Slave Bells or something?

Sure. It's a really cool collaboration. I don't think I know another album where I prefer the interpretation. But this is something really special. Congratulations on it. It's really delightful. Thank you. Thanks for saying that. Switched on Pop is produced by Rihanna Cruz, engineered by Brandon McFarland edited by Art Chung illustrations by Arras Gottwee. Remember of the Vox Media Podcast Network and a production of Vulture, which is part of New York Magazine.

You can subscribe at nymag.com slash pop. Find us on social media at switched on pop. We only got to talk really in depth about two Fleetwood Mac songs today. So we want to hear about what are the other important songs in their catalog that help us understand

the iconic sound of this band. So you know what to do. Sound off in the comments. We're going to be back next week with a special limited series called Listening to Madonna. So excited. It's brought to us by a great producer, Rihanna Cruz. It's going to run Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. MWF, baby.

It's the week of Thanksgiving, listening to Madonna. It's going to be such a blast. We'll see you there. And until them, thanks for listening.