Switched on Pop - Have Disney musicals lost their edge?

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

Critics are not feeling the love tonight when it comes to Disney's latest sequels, Mufasa and Moana 2. They've called the animated films "lifeless and bland." But save some sympathy for the composers behind these blatant IP grabs. Lin Manuel Miranda and the duo Barlow and Bear had to match the original, iconic numbers from the Lion King and Moana, songs written by Elton John and Miranda himself. Are critics of the sequels' soundtracks being too harsh? We compare the new songs to their iconic predecessors, like "Circle of Life" and "How Far I'll Go," and ask whether Disney new composers face an impossible task in trying to extend franchises through song. Songs Discussed Elton John, Tim Rice, Lebo M. - “Circle of Life” Elton John, Tim Rice - “Circle of Life” (Radio Version) Elton John, Tim Rice - “Hakuna Matata” Lin-Manuel Miranda - “We Don’t Talk About Bruno” Lin-Manuel Miranda - “Melele” Lin-Manuel Miranda - “I Always Wanted a Brother” Lin-Manuel Miranda - “How Far I’ll Go” ft. Auli’i Cravalho Ariana Grande - “Imperfect For You” Barlow & Bear - “Beyond” feat. Auli’i Cravalho Barlow & Bear - “Can I Get a Chee Hoo” feat. Dwayne Johnson More Brett Boles’s wonderful analysis of “How Far I’ll Go,” referenced in the episode Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switch on Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. And I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. Charlie Harding, we're back 2025. And yet I still can't stop thinking about my Spotify wrapped from 2024 because my top artist, it wasn't Sabrina Carpenter, it wasn't Clero, it wasn't Chris Stapleton. it was someone very unexpected.

Jeremy Irons. Jeremy Irons. You know him. The actor. Brideshead revisited. Die Hard with a vengeance. Yeah, he's great. And here he is.

I never thought Hyene is essential. That's him as Scar in the original Lion King soundtrack. Of course. The track, Be Prepared. And so you're just a Lion King head or is this, I'm guessing, children in the minivan? Children in the Rav four. You're absolutely right, Charles. And I am completely Lion King Pilled.

I know the soundtrack inside and out. I'm proud to have Jeremy Irons is my top artist of 2024. You're definitely in the 0.001% of Jeremy Iron listeners last year. And it's a good time for us Ironheads. That's what I'm coining, by the way. because Disney just released the Lion King prequel Mufasa with music by Lynn Manuel Miranda. Is it rude to say I feel like this movie kind of came and went, though? I didn't hear much about it.

Possibly that's because it got lost in the holiday shuffle. Also, maybe this movie didn't deliver on the promise of the original Lion King. Our colleagues at Vulture in a review of the movie called it Lifeless. and bland. And they were not alone. There was not a lot of love for Mofasa, besides from audiences who sent its box office numbers into the multiple hundreds of millions. Okay. And what's more concerning for me and my Spotify playlist, Charlie, is that there doesn't seem to be any hit songs from Mufasa, no earworm that I'll be singing over and over. So I feel like this might be a moment of reckoning for The House of Mouse. And I want to ask, in its push,

to make bankable sequels, has Disney lost its musical edge? Just three years ago, we were here celebrating Lin-Manuel Miranda's soundtrack for Enkanto. Right. He had a number one hit. It was crazy. Genuine earworm. Now we're potentially eulogizing the most reliable source of crossover musical hits of the last half century. Is this the end of Disney's musical dominance? Charlie, I propose to answer this question. We listened back to what made the original Lion King soundtrack so good.

And then let's compare those classics with the newest songs from Mufasa. So you're putting Elton John against Lin-Manuel Miranda, just to be clear. Yes, but there's also an undercard in this title fight. Because in the second half of the episode, let's take Lin-Manuel Miranda's score for the original Moana and compare it to the sequel, which was released this year, Moana, which like Mufasa was maybe not as critically beloved. Okay, so what classic Lion King song should we start with? Charlie, there isn't even a choice.

I mean, is there a more iconic opening in the annals of music than this? A Zulu chant sung by Soweto-born singer Lebo M. Nansengenya Mabagitibaba. Behold a lion, behold the king. What do you think of when you hear that, Charles? All the animals gathering around the animal kingdom and the savannah coming together with a monkey named Rafiki, climbing a cliff, showing the baby Simba to the kingdom that he will later rule. And then we hear the magnificent voice of Carmen Twilly.

Okay, I'm confused. I'm looking up the credits here because I feel like I'm not a Lion King family right. now. We just haven't gotten into it. Their kids yet. And for whatever reason, I feel like with the Circle of Life, am I wrong to remember Elton John singing it? But then maybe this is the version which is in the movie. And it looks like there's also lyrics by Tim Rice and produced by Hans Zimmer. What the heck? I think I'm used to another version. There's a lot of cooks in the kitchen for this soundtrack. And you are absolutely right. Though this is the version we hear in the film, Elton John also recorded his own rendition. Should we take a listen?

Okay, that is a perfect song. The harmonies are amazing. It's a, like, early 90s, late 80s power rock ballad, which I think is really funny. And yet, it's totally appropriate that Elton John should not be singing that at the opening of Lion King over the whole Savannah. Because his version, which I believe is what we hear on the radio and was a hit in of itself, is totally decontextualized from the, sort of instrumentation and geography of the Savannah. It's so Elton Johnified that it definitely wouldn't work in the movie. But as you correctly say, it totally works as a pop song.

I love that you commented on the harmonies here. I think it's so beautifully written. Elton John's process is always that he's given a sheet of lyrics, and then he sets those lyrics to music. Lion King soundtrack, no exception. The lyricist, Tim Wright. in this case, supplied him with these lyrics. And according to Rice, Elton John basically took one afternoon to come up with this melody.

And it's about the circle of life, the unchanging nature of life on earth. These chords mimic that, right? They always come back to the same place through faith and love. Till we find our place. On the path unwinding. And we kind of hear some unwinding in the chords themselves, especially right there. But then it always comes back to the circle, the circle of life.

There's such a beautiful marriage of harmony and lyric there. And there's so many moments where the chords on top are changing while the base underneath is staying. And so there's this tension of things moving forward while they also remain the same. They are in this larger circle. Totally. I dig it. It's so hard to pick just. one other song from the Lion King soundtrack to talk about.

But if I was going to pick one, it would probably have to be Hakuna Matata. I mean, that is a bop for the ages, Charles. Yeah, it definitely is. It feels a little bit decontextualized, again, from the geography of the film. But I just realized, do you feel like it's paying homage to homage? Amage? Oh, God, it's happening again. Oh, we're back. Tribute.

Omage in French, I think. Is it paying homage to the Jungle Book? Like, it has that sort of jazzy swing thing, like, from the Jungle Book? Whether it's referencing the Jungle Book or this is just the default mode for Disney musicals when they need kind of a fun comic relief number, I can't say. But I think what elevates this song, besides entering this phrase, Akuna Matata, into like, our collective vernacular. is that it pushes the plot forward in this really indelible way

because something remarkable happens halfway through this song, right? So far we've been listening to young Simba discover this new philosophy of like, no worries. It's a montage song. I forgot. That's right. Then we get this instrumental interlude. Also, like, killer fretless bass. Fretless electric base?

Yes. Jock Astorius. Elton John's longtime touring bass player, Phil Spalding, could do a whole separate episode on that. But instead, let's just listen to what happens. Something is coming. A big reveal. Ah, there he is.

We just heard this young lion grow up in front of our ears. What an incredible musical moment. How does it do that? I feel like so much happened in that little instrumental section. We got these swelling. strings, these ethereal harmonies that sort of conjure this idea of time passing. And then we hear the same melody with a new voice, the voice of grown-up Simba, Joseph Williams, the son of noted film composer John Williams. No, for real? For real. I did not know this until researching this

episode, and that blew my mind. And then we've got Nathan Lane as Tumone, the Mirkat, Ernie Sabella's Pumba the Wardhog. Does my young teen age brain served me correctly that Simba was voiced by JTT? I know. It was Jason Weaver was the original way. That sounds like some crazy, like an urban myth or something. JTT, Jonathan Taylor, Thomas. Wow, I haven't thought about him in a minute.

Dude, Google this. The Lion King, JT voiced the speaking part of young Simba, not old Simba. I knew what I was talking about. Come on. Oh, the speaking voice and then Jason Weaver was the singing voice. All right. I stand corrected. But who voices grown up Samba?

No idea. It's a... Matthew Broderick? What? What? This movie's crazy. This movie's got it all, Charles. Okay, but here's the question.

Here's the question. How do you follow up this legacy, right? It's a tall order. Right. Now, we remade the Lion King once, but it was all the same songs. And we actually did an episode about this as well because... Beyonce came in and added some Afrobeat inspired songs that made it onto a separate soundtrack. Right.

But here's Mufasa. This is a whole new movie. This is the origin story of Scar. How did he get his scar? No one asked ever. We're going to learn in Mufasa. We're going to meet young Mufasa, young Scar. Okay.

And just like in the original Lion King, we have this kind of tone-setting song, like the Circle of Life, This time it's called Milalei. It's sung by Mufasa's parents, Afia and Masego, voiced by Anikinoni Rose and Keith David. And they're going to introduce this oasis, this land that they dream of called Malayle, which they're all going to go to someday. Okay, so a quick search points to Malayle is Swihili for forever or always constantly eternity, which is more fitting than. Zulu, frankly, because the Lion King Pride Rock is supposed to take place in East Africa,

which is where we hear Swahili, as opposed to Zulu, which is spoken in South Africa. But also important to point out that Malalia is also an auto dealer that exports tax-free vehicles to Africa, Asia, and Europe. What does this have to do with eternity? In Lion King, we had the circle of life, you know, this eternal dance, the Wheel of Fortune, as Elton John would sing it. Here we have Malayle, also this sort of eternal place. Is it real or fantasy? At the end of the film, spoiler alert, we will find out it is indeed real. And I think it's a very kind of similar approach.

The harmonies also always return to this home, this foreverness. And then we get this wonderful counterpoint between Mufasa's parents. Very Lin-Manuel Miranda. It's very carefully plotted these two voices, interacting with one another, but it also sounds like very off the cuff and kind of spoken in this way that he's so adept at. Yeah, that's definitely Lynn's style.

And then we get to the climax of this piece. And, man, Charlie, I was like, we're definitely going to get a modulation here. We don't, but we do get a really wonderful crescendo. Can you see it? I did hear that really lovely background element of the chant from the Circle of Life. So they're kind of mashing these things up.

Exactly. I don't get the modulation that I need, but you know what? I like the callback. So we'll listen to one more song from Mufasa, but at this point, I mean, are you in step with the critics who have sort of dismissed these songs as lifeless and forgettable? We were kind of bopping along to Malay.

I feel like this works pretty successfully as an intro track to this Mufasa universe. Yeah, I should say, I haven't seen the film yet, But I like it. I think it's doing something very different than the Circle of Life. The Circle of Life, especially when you listen to the Elton John power ballad version, you've got Elton John singing. He's a pop star. It really sort of does function effectively as a pop song.

Limma Miranda comes from Broadway. And I feel like this is much more a Broadway kind of song. You have characters talking to each other, establishing a narrative. I don't expect to hear this song on the Billboard. Of course, you know, whatever. Streaming can make any song go number one, a novelty. a Broadway song, but this is not a pop song.

I think this is serving the narrative. And I think it's got some really nice build throughout, and I love the callback. Just like Mulele kind of maps to Circle of Life from the original, we have a song that roughly mapped to Hakuna Matata as well. It's called I Always Wanted to Be a Brother,

sung by Young Scar and Young Mufasa, voiced by Braylon, Rankins, and Theo Simolo. Oh, I dig it. You like it? I don't like children singing in general. I don't also understand why they have British accents, but, you know, whatever. Well, I mean, Kenya is a British colony, so maybe that's accurate.

Yeah, the British voices is definitely a little funny to me, especially when there's local accents that could be used. It reminds me maybe more of, like, West African High Life music, though I actually can't say that I can speak to this style particularly well. But it also doesn't have the Hakuna Matata's unnecessary, like, swing era jazz. thing, it does feel musically, again, more appropriate for the setting. And then we get this kind of rock interlude.

I always wanted a brother. Oh, wait, what? I always wanted a brother, just like you. I always wanted a brother. I always wanted a brother. I always wanted a brother. It's so dramatic. It's great.

And then check out what happens here, Charlie. Remember Kekuna Matata? We had this instrumental interlude And then something changed Here's our moment of transformation New voice Time is passing Time is passing

See your son. Everyone sing for my brother. Do anything for my brother. And now they're grown up. Just like in Hakuna Matata, we hear these characters grow up now. They're voiced by Aaron Pierre and Kelvin Harrison Jr. And it's the same sleight of hand where, as we're listening, like years pass and the character blossoms. And it still hits.

I love it. What a great effect. I like this song. I think this demonstrates, again, Limelma will coming from the world of Broadway. And he's particularly excellent at using the chorus. The, you know, the extra actors, not the main actors, to add heightened tension.

The shift between these moments of the full chorus singing together, raising the energy, moving into the future, and then all of a sudden the focus on this one voice. And he's so good at that, moving between these action movements, where the scene is being reset and then calling attention to this pivotal plot point. Again, much more Broadway, I think, than pop song. I think that's very astute, Charles.

And that definitely seems to be something that separates the Mufasa soundtrack from the original Lion King soundtrack. I mean, as we heard, these songs, like, function pretty independently as these straight-up pop bangers. But I feel like there's a larger issue. And I can't lay this at the feet of Lin-Manuel Miranda or anyone else. How do you follow up, like, one of the greatest animated music? musical films of all time. Who wants that job? That's an impossible task. If this movie is being

criticized for being lifeless and bland, it kind of forgettable, I feel like it's no one's fault, but the very idea of like needing to rehash and ring out every bit of IP from these familiar franchises. Yeah. It's like maybe the issue is not the music itself. It's this very notion of we need to go back to this well and get even more out of it. And maybe there's nothing left to get. Well, we also have seen that every prequel or sequel to an existing IP has to be the same film. Like, Gladiator 2 is Gladiator 1. A Force Awakens is just Star Wars.

They have to do the same plot with minor changes, with new characters. And so you're asking people to both be nostalgic about the thing they loved before, while somehow being excited that it's, better than the original. It's an impossible task to live up to. And I don't see how this is a long-term winning strategy for Disney. Well, we can approach this quandary through one other example, Charles, because here, Lin-Manuel Miranda's faced with the unenviable task of following up Elton John and Tim Rice's original Lion King soundtrack. But Limamuel has his own original soundtrack that has reached iconic status, and that's the film Moana. So what happens when someone, else has to follow up

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ears. No, you'll be more vets. Your business will be a super-exit with Shopify. Empezae. Immigration may be Donald Trump's signature issue. President Trump is now targeting predominantly Democratic cities for ice raids and deportations.

Dozens of protesters clashing with immigration and customs enforcement agents in Minneapolis Tuesday. We will begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to do in this space is talk about America and politics beyond the current president. So what do most Americans think about deportation and border security? period. I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ICE. When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want order at the border. They don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. The view on immigration from the

bottom up instead of the top down. That's this week on America Actually. Every Saturday in your audio and video feeds. It's 2016. Lynn Manuel Miranda is writing high on the success of his musicals in the Heights and Hamilton. And he gets a new gig, Charlie, writing songs for an original Disney animated musical called Moana, the story of a young Polynesian girl, the daughter of the village chief who has to recapture her people's love for the open ocean, corral the demigod, Maui, to see. Save the world through the heart of defeating.

You know, you've seen it. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen this one a lot. This is a major rerun in our household right now. I don't know about you, but I feel like back when they announced this, I was like, this is a tough gig. Oh, yeah.

To come in and do like a Disney soundtrack. Hats off to Lin-Manuel Miranda because he delivered. Yeah. Let's listen to the I Want song from Moana, how far I'll go. Staring at the. What a great opening, Charlie, because it's always I can remember, never really knowing why. What a great opening.

Yeah. This song is so effective, Charlie, because it's always building. Here's this character. She wants to explore, she wants to travel, and the melody is always like reaching up and then falling back down. Goes up, falls down. And then we get to the pre-chorus.

Every turn I... ... every road leads back to the place I know where I can't. Building. Oh, falls back down. Same deal, right? And then it goes up. And then we fall down on your favorite chord of all time, the minor four. So throughout this verse and pre-chorus, we have the same thing.

Melody goes up, it falls down. Melody goes up, it falls down. What about the chorus, Charles? She finally made it. She's up in the highest register of her voice. It's almost like you can picture her out on the open ocean. We started down here. And by the chorus, we're up here.

It's like, she finally got there. What a satisfying payoff? I feel like there's something missing from your analysis, Nate. It goes even deeper than this. Like, the whole song, she's running around saying, like, this is the island I'm from, this island, this island. She keeps talking. She says the word island, like a thousand times in this song.

Doesn't the word islands start to feel claustrophobic, like being stuck on an island? We're like, oh, it's so nice. We're all on this island. But, like, I could use some time off. this island on this island off this. She is kind of like in the film running around, looking out to the ocean, constantly wanting to make it out there. And then, of course, towards the end of the song, she finally makes it.

And I remember seeing, gosh, back in 2022, a great music theory analysis of the song by Brett Bowles. And he has this whole analysis about how this song is about her wanting to reach the sea, right? The chorus line is, see the line where the sky meets the sea. she's trying to reach the C and embedded in the song is also the aspiration to reach the chord C Brett Bowles shows us

that the song which is in E major which doesn't have a C naturally in it has a C sharp right there's E there's C so very distant literally except in that moment when you play that minor four chord there is a C

where I long to be where I long to be where I long to be. And that minor four chord is that longing chord, that chord that you hear in all the Beatles songs, it's like, oh, and I really wish I could have her. Oh, I really wish I could get back with her. That is her feeling yearning for the sea. Then Brett Bowles shows at the end of the song, there's this series of modulations where we actually finally arrive on the chord sea. The line when the sky meets the sea.

It calls me. It calls me. All right. So now the sea fits into this key, but it gets so much better. At the very end, she sings, One day I'll know How far I'll go. And then we get the sea again with this new harmony.

And what happens then? Then the harmony shifts underneath while she's holding that seat. And we change keys. Oh! It's so rewarding. Lin-Mole Miranda is just like giving us gold here. Okay, that's hip.

I love it. I don't sure that it's hip, but it's cool. You know what else I'm realizing, Charles? What's that? This is a pop song. Like, you were talking about Mufasa, Mulele, I've always wanted a brother. Those were more musical theater songs, dramatic, you know, recitative, talking. This is like verse, pre-chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus, verse, free chorus, chorus, modulation.

It's just a straight-up pop power ballad. Yeah. And perhaps that's why it, like, sort of penetrated into our collective psyche so strongly. Alessia Kara was able to do a pop version of it, just like Elton John did with Circle of Life. That's the play. And then if we're talking, Moana, we have to talk Dwayne the Rock Johnson as the demigod Maui singing, You're Welcome. I think we all remember where we were when we heard the rock sing for the first time.

I mean, what a revelation. From wrestling federation to a Broadway-style Disney musical? I did not have that one on my bigel card. But to me, I think the highlight of the song is The Rap Breakdown. Kid, honestly, I could go on and on. I could explain every natural phenomenon. The tide, the grass, the ground. Oh, that was mad we just messing around.

I killed a Neil. I buried its guts. Sprouted a tree. Now you got coconut. Lemo L's like, come on, I just did Hamilton. You got to give me a rap first. well come to think of it. I mean, it's so well done.

And I feel like he got a lot of flack for some of the performance here. The Rock is not a singer. I think that he is singing with a lot of gusto. I think it's convincing. It is not Broadway's quality singing or hip-hop's quality rapping. But there's something about this sort of demigod who's got maybe an unearned amount of confidence. And I think he's singing from that same kind of place. And that, yeah, a little bit of vocal tuning might be helping him out.

But whatever, he's a god. So I let it fly. I actually think this is a very successful song. I agree. This is really successful. And part of that might be that they're actually following a similar formula to the Lion King. The music director of the Lion King, Mark Mancina, is back for Moana. And just like Elton John and Tim Rice collaborated with this South African singer,

Lebo M. Lin-Muel Miranda collaborates with the Polynesian singer Opataya Fawai to incorporate traditional authentic sounds into this soundtrack. But Charles, we have a problem. How do you follow up the success of this film? Because 2024 sees the release, the long-awaited release of Moana 2. It also gets pretty negative reviews, and nevertheless is one of the top five grossing films of 2024. The soundtrack this time is by the duo Barlow and Bear, Abigail Barlow and Emily Baer, who came to renown by penning the unauthorized Bridgetton musical, which debuted on TikTok.

On TikTok. I remember that. Good for them. And now we've got kind of a role reversal, right? Mufasa found Lin-Manuel trying to match Elton John. Now Barlow and Bear are trying to match Lin-Manuel. What do you do in this situation? Well, first, you need a song that's kind of like how far we'll go.

And in Moana, too, that song is beyond. It's sung once again by the star of Moana, Aulili I Krovalio, and it has the same yearning power. Let me ask the same question I asked about Mufasa. Is the negativity warranted? How are you feeling about this song? I actually think this is a neat song. I haven't heard it yet. This is my first time I haven't seen Moana, too.

It's kind of the same plot. She needs to go back out on the ocean and save the village. Okay, okay. I like the idea of we're not just trying to go out to the sea. We're going beyond, deeper into the ocean. And there's this nice little melody when she sings about going beyond. There is this sort of melodic, crunchy, dissonant thing that happens. And I really like it.

I feel like there's a little bit of modal mixture there. Whoa, yeah. We go from F major to D major. Super crunchy. Yeah. It reminds me a little bit of like what Ariana Grande does and imperfect for you. that great moment where she sings a note which doesn't really belong in the key. And it works because there's this imperfection in her relationship and she's getting over the need to be perfect in a relationship.

Beyond doing the same thing where there's a note when she sings the word beyond, she's reaching outside the scale that she's supposed to be singing in. Thinking of that analysis by Brett Bowles that you played, it's kind of similar. It uses chromatic harmony to give you the sense of something unknown, something distant, something that you're reaching towards. So that's a cool connection to the original soundtrack. Yeah, and not everything in this world is text painting. I get it, but that is a really deliberate chosen moment to sing beyond at that moment when the harmonies are a little bit off. And it's working for me. I like that.

Our last song under consideration is the counterpart to Your Welcome, another Dwayne the Rock Johnson feature. This one's called Can I Get a Chi-Hoo? Which is kind of Maui's catchphrase from the original Moana. Chi-hoo! Not ringing bell for Charlie, but that's okay. Maybe you'll recognize it after you hear this track. I need a, can I get a Chi-hoo! Who are you? Who are you going to be?

You're going to, you're going to make some mystery. This sounds like if Floraida wrote a kidda-said a kid's song. You wanna, got a. How are we feeling about Kamana-Mawanna? I do recall that our colleagues at Vulture wrote an article that says we owe Lynn Manuel Miranda an apology because I think originally our publication wasn't so kind to that film and thought, you know, why are you doing a Disney thing, Lynn? and now realized, oh, well, that music slapped, and now maybe, I don't know, rhymes like, come on, I'mawanna.

I don't know, it's fine. I actually think Lynn would make that same rhyme. It's fine. We're at the end of our conversation, Charlie. Not the end of, you know, these soundtracks. We've only picked two songs from each of them. Yeah. But we're at the end of our conversation,

and I feel like we've arrived in a similar place. Whatever negative feedback, these composers, these directors are getting, perhaps some of it warranted. But ultimately, I feel like this is an issue with the idea of the franchise itself. The idea of revisiting this IP over and over again, it stifles creativity. Like, why was the Lion King great? Why was the original Moana great?

Because they were new, because they were surprising, because they took these ideas and these characters and they introduced them with sounds that you'd never heard before. And it was like truly like an epiphany to see it and hear it. and it burned itself your brain forever. And Mufasa Mawanna, too, these are just riding the coattails. And again, what an impossible task to come in and be like, okay, I'm going to honor the original.

I'm going to continue this story. I'm going to keep it familiar. I'm going to try and put a little bit of my own spin on it, but not make it too different. That's not how you're to be creative. No. That's just a recipe for creating what the critics are going to call lifeless,

forgettable. But it's not their fault. I really firmly believe that. I think these composers all did as good a job they can. I lay this on the feet of our IP crazed modern culture. How about that, Charles? I dig it. You know, I'm avoiding watching Disney films that I don't have to watch because I know I will be watching all of them 10,000 times with my children once they're ready, which explains why I have not seen these two yet.

But what I do, I think I'm just going to close my eyes and enjoy the music a bit more because if these sequels aren't delivering on the narrative, I actually think there are some really great songs here. I've got no problem with them. I agree, Charlie. I actually think we have to go beyond. I'll be there with you. Switched on Pop is produced by Rihanna Cruz, edited by Art Chung, engineered by Brandon McFarlane, illustrations by Arras Gottlieb. Remember of the Vox Media Podcast Network production of Vulture, which is part of New York

magazine. Subscribe at nymag.com slash pop. You can find more episodes of our show anywhere you get podcasts. You can check out our website, www.Switch onpop.com. And there you can find a little box where you put in your email address, sign up for our newsletter. We're going to blast you once a week with a deeper dive into the episode that we released. And we also want to hear from you.

So talk to us at Switchdown Pop. What did you want to hear from Moana 2 and Mufasa? Or, you know, what did you love about the Lion King if you're revisiting that or the original Moana? Talk to us. We'll be back again next week with our 400th episode. And something very special. we're going to be rewriting to us what is one of the most important pieces of music of all time.

Until then, thanks for listening.