Switched on Pop - How Megan Thee Stallion brought Japanese hip hop to the Hot 100

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

"Mamushi," the fourth single from Megan the Stallion’s album Megan, was not supposed to be a huge hit. But thanks to a viral dance, the song has become the first song on the Billboard Hot 100 to feature Japanese lyrics since 1963. With a feature from rapper Yuki Chiba and a beat from producer Koshy, "Mamushi" creates the kind of cross-cultural musical collaboration that helps correct a long record of U.S. pop stars appropriating Japanese culture. Songs Discussed Megan Thee Stallion (feat. Yuki Chiba) - Mamushi Megan Thee Stallion - Hiss, Boa, Cobra, Savage, Megan's Piano, Otaku Hot Girl Kyu Sakomoto - Sukiyaki A Taste of Honey - Sukiyaki Selena - Sukiyaki Pikotaro - PPAP (Pen-Pineapple-Apple-Pen) Hikaru Utada, Skrillex - Face My Fears Gwen Stefani - Harujuku Girls Avril Lavigne - Hello Kitty More Hannah Lee of the Japan Society NPR on the story of "Sukiyaki" Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're tired of endless scrolling to figure out where to eat, same. I'm Stephanie Wu, editor-in-chief of Eater. We've just launched the new-ish and way better Eater app. It has all the restaurants we love, gives you personalized picks wherever you are, and serves up smarter search results just for you. You can find my list of the best places for martinis and fries in New York City. And save your favorite spots, share lists, follow editors, and book right in the app. the Eater app at Eaterapp.com. It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switched-on Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan.

And I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. Charlie Harding, back in June, there was an important release that we have neglected to talk about. What was that? Megan the Stallion's third studio album, Megan. Wow, it's like Prague fusion metal hip hop. This is awesome. That was the album's lead single, Cobra. But something interesting happened, Charlie. That lead single is not the biggest hit from this album. Okay. Neither was the album's second single, Hiss. Bodies on bodies on bodies on bodies. Say he fuck making it. Now he's a topic. These niggas think they lower the value. All this free promo, I'm turning the profit.

Nor was the album's third single, Boa. Do you sense a theme here? Snakes. It was Megan's fourth single off this album, Mamushi, featuring the Japanese hip-hop artist Yuki Chiba, that became the unlikely smash from this record. Yuki Chiba, not really a household name, I think, to most U.S. listeners. Certainly not someone with the same recognition as another of Megan's collaborators on this album, R.M., the rapper from BTS.

Right. Yuki Chiba, this is more of Megan going out on a limb, I think. And she's being rewarded. This song is incredibly popular. It has its own viral dance, of course, I mean, as one does in 2024. We need to make a viral dance. And when Megan performed the song on her tour in London, she brought out Yuki Chiba, and they were having the time of their lives.

Will I regret asking for the translation of Mamushi and does it have to do with snakes? I mean, you won't regret it. Okay. And you are correct. So, two for two. What does it mean? It's a venomous pit viper native to Japan. Oh, cool.

And my understanding is that within Japanese culture, there's also maybe certain folk tales that it references involving like a femme fatal. So I think Megan is also reaching into that meaning as well. Okay, I'm glad I asked. So this is pretty interesting, Charlie. Here's a hip-hop track by one of our most verbally dexterity. and attitudinal rappers in the game today.

Truth. It's become the biggest hit off this album, and half of the song is in Japanese. It's definitely notable on the Hot 100, and for any major hit, like K-pop has been having a moment, but J-pop definitely has been not a strong, and Japanese hip-hop has not been a big export

to the U.S. market in terms of chart performance recently. So with that in mind, today I want to listen to the, this track, Mamushi, I want to find out why it's resonating with listeners. And then I want to talk about the history of Japanese songs within the U.S. music industry. And we can think about how Megan the Stallion has maybe avoided some of the pitfalls of appropriation and exoticization that so many American artists have failed to avoid when they're trying to. to incorporate Japanese music into their work.

So you're saying that dabbling into the world of Japanese pop music is a bit of a Mamushi, a pit viper. Like, it's a dangerous game to play, but she's pulling it off. Or so we'll see. I like that, Charlie. Let's enter the viper pit. First, I want to unpack everything that's happening in Mamushi and see if we can uncover what makes this song so catchy and effective.

Let's spin that chorus one more time, okay? There's something about this groove. O'ganae Kasegu, O'erra waista. I cannot get this out of my head, Charlie. I'm going to become a weave after spending the last week listening to this track. Are you familiar with Weeb? Yeah, see, I wasn't either.

See, we're already learning. Okay, what's a we? A Weeb is a non-Japanese person who's obsessed with Japanese culture. Okay, okay. So you're on your duolingo, doing some language skills? Yeah, I mean, this isn't the hardest translation

because Megan the Stalian first gives us this chorus in English. I get money, I'm a star, star. Right. And then we get the Japanese version. And it's slightly different. Okanei Kasegu, Orera, Wasta. That's what the rapper Yuki Chiba sings, and that's like, first person plural. Like, we get money. We are stars.

And then Megan comes in and she says, Okane Kasegu, Watashi, was star. And that's like, I get money, I'm a star. And then they both say, star, star, star, which is a word that is the same in Japanese and English or almost. Yeah. So that's a nice bit of overlap. Stah becomes this point of convergence for these two rappers. It's something noteworthy in the performance that Megan gives, the way that she says the word, sta, the breath of it all.

Her breath is doing as much work as the actual words themselves. Stah. There's aggression. There's intensity. It's slightly distorted. I literally think we can hear more of the breath than we can hear the enunciated syllables. I think it's even more intricate than that. the breath becomes its own rhythmic element.

She says, sta, sta, sta, sta, ha, sta, ha, ha. I'm not sure that was... I don't know that that's... I apologize to everyone who just had to hear that. But here's what I'm trying to convey.

The breath becomes this triplet figure within the song. Let's listen to it again. And like you were saying, let's just focus in on that breathy triplet. I get money, I'm a star, star, star, star, star, Stop.

Stop. Stop. I think this is even like a sample in a way. Like, I don't think that's literally her breathing like that. I feel like it's been processed into the track, but I might be wrong. I don't know if it's a sample. I mean, it's certainly processing. Like, that's maybe very heavy compression and distortion.

It's emphasizing something happening in the back of the word, a very quiet moment that would otherwise be inaudible. So it's definitely some post-production trickery. I agree. Stah. Stah. Stah. I don't think you're doing it.

It's hard to do. It's hard to do. I don't think there's an in-breath and an out-breath. I think it's two out-breaths. I think it's stah-ha-ha-ha, not stah-ha-ha-ha-ha. Okay, we got to go back to the tape here. No, it's definitely an exhalation and then an inhalation. Stah, stah, stah. You're right.

If you're an inhalated. Stah, stah. Well, okay. This is a just upsetting. But let's move on to what this breathiness might symbolize within the track. And if I had to connect it to the world of the track, this is all, like so many of Megan's songs, this is really about her sense of empowerment and confidence and her place at the top of the rap game. It's like saying body, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada.

It's just like her breath is powerful. It's a sense of effort and hard work. And when you hear that, you feel like Megan is ready to leave it all on the floor with every track. She's like the hardest working rapper in the game. And you can literally hear her panting through it. It makes me think, I don't know if this pit viper or the Mamushi has some kind of hiss. But there is this sort of like snake-like quality to it. It's menacing.

It's fearful. It's going to put you on edge. Like, I'm paying attention. I like that. I like that. And that's like a core part of Megan the Stallion's imagery, not just on this album but throughout her career. So maybe it does give you that sense of danger and caution that she's trying to create. Now, if we move past this breathy triplet, we get to her actual flow in the

first verse, and she's not leaving behind the Japanese references. She drops this other great line in the middle of the first verse. drinking out the bottle getting twisted Meru chun Uh, Tetris Kawaii She's saying I'm like I'm cute You know, don't mess with me

But isn't Tetris Russian I mean it was released On Tetris is Russian I'm not saying Every lyric is Japanese Okay But it was released on the Game Boy And then it had

Okay but yeah And Nintendo is Japanese That's true Okay So this track is replete with Japanese language Japanese references and then we haven't even gotten to the feature from Yuki Chiba.

I love this guy's flow. It's interesting that the whole track is very minimal, and the voice is so present right in front of you. no reverb. It's processed. It definitely has this sort of distorted quality to it. But it really sounds present, right in front of you, intimate. They're not hiding behind anything.

And his style of rapping is so calm and collected. It's a nice counterpoint to Megan, because she's always saying everything in such a fierce and like, take no prisoner's way. Yuki Chiba, by contrast, seems like he's got all the time in the world. He's just kind of like speaking gently. It's so cool to me, but then he'll like drop in his own little triplets that connect back to that breathy Megan triplet from earlier in the track.

And then when we get to the very end of his verse, there's a great moment where he kind of does the inverse of Megan. Megan drops a few lines in Japanese. Yuki Chiba drops a few lines in English. I'm so happy. So there's this cross-language. cross-cultural exchange of two people saying, I'm great, I'm a star. You know, your classic,

progadocio, and I think there's something, you keep pointing out this triplet sound, the da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Yeah. There's a way in which the triplet against the beat is kind of emphasizing that quality of like, we are standing out, we are unique, we are special, we are a star,

when the beat is, you know, one and two and three and four-and, we're going against that beat. We're going against the grain. We're da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. They're fluid. They can kind of make anything work. Asserting their independence and agency and stardom.

Maybe this is an absolute reach, but I like the way that the vocal performance creates that confidence against that very simple beat right here. I think there's also something about the best of, beat of the song that gives a lot of space for these rappers to offer these different flows and syncopations. The beat is actually by a Japanese producer who's worked with Yuki Chiba before named Koshi. But I feel like this beat is also directly in the lineage of a lot of Megan the Stallion's other songs. Oh, absolutely. And it has a lot to do with the way it features the piano. This is like

one of the constants in Megan the Stallion's discography. Going back to what was probably her first breakout hit, Savage. I'm that bitch. Been that bitch, still that bitch. And followed up on tracks like Megan's piano from her last album, something for the hotties. Big ass chain around my neck so these niggas know I'm rich. And I don't need shit with the dick.

Big ass stack in this purse so these niggas know I'm working. I'm holding this gawk in my burking. Niggas got a whole that L trying to come from my purse. This theme of minimal, aggressive piano beats is continued in Mamushi. Kind of like if it's a Megan beat, it's got to have Megan's piano in it. Exactly. Now Mamushi is not the only track on Megan that has been influenced by Japanese music and Japanese culture. Let's spin Otaku Hot Girl.

Hey, can't touch me like Gojo. Look good at all my photos. Just landed in Kyoto. I'm war-wap these bitches local. Harigato. Artaku Hot Girl. I love this title because it really defines who Megan is to a degree. Otaku is a term that refers to someone who loves anime.

Hot Girl is Megan's whole identity. Exactly. So I wasn't aware of this. Maybe you were. Megan the Stallion is obsessed with anime. Oh, I had no idea. Okay. You can find all these videos on YouTube of her just like talking to various anime channels

about all the shows and characters she loves. She is deep in this world. So this is making a lot more sense. This is why she's putting a handout to the Japanese music market. Like, she wants to be a part of this culture. The lyrical references here are. are mostly to an anime show called Jujutsu Kaysen. And that's where the character Gojo comes from

that she wraps about in the chorus. So what's Gojo's thing? Like, why can't you touch Gojo? Okay, I didn't go deep into the world of Jutsu Kaysen. So someone else will have to chime in on that note. But I can tell you, Charlie, that this is not the only reference to the show. There's not just lyrical references.

There's a musical reference to this beat that we're hearing on Otaku Hot Girl. That sort of thing. Are you going to tell me that's the theme song? That is the theme song to Jiu-Jitsu Kaysen. Oh. A little plucky simple. thing. It's a cool sample. It's such a funny sample too because it's hardly a theme song that's almost more like an audio tag. That's like just a little ID. It's quick. Well, it's something that you would probably only know if you're a fellow otaku like Megan. You and I are not. I can't

even tell you who Gojo is. So like clearly I'm not going to catch this. Yeah. But what I can catch is a musical link between this song and Mamushi, which is the use of, you know, breath that we were talking about. I mean, the breath is almost like a counter melody to the words and the flow that Megan uses. I get the trinning off every new photo. Wants this horse on this track like a polo. She does a lot of ad-libs in her tracks. She does a lot of ad-libs in her tracks.

A lot of ah. You know, that's like her signifier. This track has a whole layer of ad-libs of her just going like, ah, ha, ha, ha. Ha. It's pretty funny. But they're even deeper than that. They're like, they're like,

I mean, when I did that, it sounded like a snake. So maybe that's another part of it here. But I just feel like there's this theme throughout these songs, throughout this whole record of like Megan putting in the work, her breath,

her panting, her effort. You hear it on every track. It becomes its own part of the soundscape of her world. It's really cool. So this is a surprising moment that these songs, which embrace Japanese culture and Japanese language have exploded into the U.S. public consciousness,

that is kind of unusual, maybe even unprecedented. And in fact, when other artists have tried to do this in the past, the results have been ranging from just kind of musically ineffective to downright offensive. We'll get into that after the break. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start actually. acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova, and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs

that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay. Ready? Ready. Do not sugarcoat something for me. No, no. No. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives. actors, entrepreneurs and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. Immigration may be Donald Trump's signature issue. President Trump is now targeting predominantly Democratic cities for ice raids and deportations.

Dozens of protesters clashing with immigration and customs enforcement. agents in Minneapolis Tuesday. We will begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to do in this space is talk about America and politics beyond the current president. So what do most Americans think about deportation and border security, period? I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ICE. When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want border at the border.

They don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. The view on immigration from the bottom up instead of the top down. That's this week on America Actually. Every Saturday in your audio and video feeds. Okay, Charlie, if we're going to talk about the history of U.S.-Japanese music relations, we actually have to go all the way back to 1963. And we have to listen to a number one hit on the U.S. Billboard chart. I'm talking about Sukiyaki by Kiu Sakamoto.

What a novel song. That was a number one hit in the U.S., Charlie. Wow. Okay. First of all, it's very important that we understand that this song's original title was not Sukiyaki. Okay. And this title, which was given to the original Japanese song by some record label executive,

shows us how there's already attention in the 1960s between the U.S. and Japan, because sukiaki is like a dish from Japan that was popular in the United States that consists of like thinly sliced beef and noodles. Okay. And to be clear, this song has nothing to do with some... Sliced beef noodles, I'm guessing. No, this song is not about food. Its first line, Uweu Muiite means I look up as I walk,

and then the lyrics continue so that the tears won't fall, remembering those spring days, and tonight, I am all alone. So someone chose Sukiyaki, assuming it was the only Japanese term. Someone might know, it's like calling the song California roll. Exactly. I mean, California role, the only, more offensive maybe. I'm not sure. I can't grade the offensiveness. But yeah, that's like incredibly reductive. This song is beautiful, catchy, clearly resonated with American listeners,

even if they didn't speak Japanese. And it also had another meaning for Japanese listeners as well, because later in the song, the singer, Kiyosakamoto, sings about looking forward to a brighter future. And that wasn't just about like a new romance or happier days in his personal life. The lyricist of this song was inspired by a debate going on in Japan in the early 1960s of whether to allow the U.S. to build military bases in their country. And this lyricist said he put these words into the song as kind of a subtle protest telling Japanese government. don't let this happen. Don't allow the U.S. to build bases on our land. Wild that it became a hit in the U.S.

and the U.S. listeners had no idea what they were listening to. Right. And of course the U.S. did build these bases after Japan agreed to a treaty the following year. And in a way, that probably influenced the development of Japanese hip-hop and artists like Yuki Chiba, who we heard earlier, because just like in South Korea, as we discussed in our episode about Epic High a few years ago.

The presence of these military bases allowed U.S. music to proliferate through these countries. The U.S. military industrial hip-hop complex? Okay, I want to move on from Sukkiyaki, but I just need to acknowledge, this song had a lasting impact. It wasn't just popular in 1963. There were covers of this song stretching through the next multiple decades of American popular music. The band, Taste of Honey, recorded an English version of Sukkiaki in the 1980s. What an interesting inversion where the original version includes sort of like a jazz orchestra

and feels in many ways much more Western. And in the cover, we're using traditional Japanese instrumentation and English lyrics, the whole thing has switched up. Totally. And if this inversion surprises you, I think. you'll be agog at the next version of the song I'm going to play, which is by the Tejano singer, Selena, recorded in 1993. This is neat because we have a very synthesized version of the song, which is using synthetic

versions of what may be Japanese instruments. What's very cool is that three of the most. important synthesizer companies are Japanese. The Roland Corporation, Yamaha, and Corg. And it's very likely that the keyboardist on this production by Selena would have been using one of these Japanese synthesizers. Combined with that sound are these traditional Latin percussion instruments.

I hear maybe like Aguero or a shaker, maybe some bongos or congos in there as well. It's like such an interesting mix. And of course, she's singing the lyrics in Spanish. So this song has had remarkable transformations since its debut in 1963. Since Sukiyaki, there have been a few Japanese songs or Japanese artists that have charted on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100, including Pink Lady with their song Kiss in the Dark in 1979. But it's not really until the 2010s that Japanese songs and Japanese artists start to appear more first. frequently on the Hot 100.

And some of these songs are not what you would call the weightiest imports. There's the viral track P-P-A-P-A-P by Pico-Taro, which charted at number 77 in October 2016. And if you need a refresher, Charlie, P-P-A-P, that stands for Penn-Pinap. What? I have a pen. I have an apple. I have a pan I have pineapple

pineapple pan Are you kidding me? What is this? Have you never heard this? Oh man You've never seen this viral video from 2016 Oh, that makes sense

So this is like a YouTube video That turned into a song That ended up on the charts At the, yeah, on the bottom Yeah, the charts, okay? It's 44 seconds long. So it's status as a song is even arguable.

But it's a very entertaining video, so I do recommend checking it out. In addition to this novelty song, Penn Pineapple Apple Pen, we have Hikaru Utada with Face My Fears, which just cracked the Hot 100 in February 2019. Charlie, could I put you on the spot and ask you to guess the U.S. music producer who worked on that track? It's Skrillex, obviously. It's Skrillex. Yeah. I mean, I was like, this is such a late dubstep entry into the charts.

Because dubstep's moment was really much more around like 2010-ish. And here we are, you know, nearly 2020. But Scrillx, you know, he just keeps pumping out hits. And maybe pumping is the right word because this song is pumping. Totally. You can hear all that side chain compression, that sort of breathing quality to the track. There was an English version and a Japanese version of the song. I'm not sure exactly which one charted, but either way.

there it is. Okay. Now, these are all examples of Japanese artists going back to the 1960s, who have managed to break onto the U.S. Billboard charts. But what about artists like Megan the Stalian, who are American but are trying to incorporate Japanese music and Japanese culture into their work? Well, that hasn't always gone so well in the past. We have to talk about Gwen Stefani's Harujuku Girls from 2004. I knew this is coming. Oh gosh. This is a lot.

We get a introduction with traditional Japanese instrumentation. I'm not an expert. It sounds like perhaps a koto could be another Japanese string instrument. We get some kind of traditional Japanese flute. There are a handful of different Japanese flute, so I can't identify which one it is. and then we get an 808 drum groove. The 808 drum machine, while popularized by American hip-hop producers, was produced by the Rowling Corporation, a Japanese company,

so maybe that's fitting. Then we just get her mewing like a cat, and it doesn't get better from there. I mean, even the lyrics of this song are a little cringy. Yeah. She says, a subculture and a kaleidoscope of fashion. prowl the streets of Harajuku. I'm hanging with the locals.

It's like your friend who goes to Japan once, and then like all their Instagram stories are about, you know, I feel like a local here, and you're like, you're not. You're not. It's just worth pointing out as a reminder. Harjuku is an area of Tokyo in which it's a major sort of shopping mall area in which there is a subset culture of mostly young people. dressing in very over-the-top fashionable ways. It's an ever-evolving place of fashion and culture,

which Gwen Stefani is trying to claim because maybe she went there once. So Harzuka Girls, it wasn't just a song from this 2004 album, Love Angel, Music, Baby. These were literal women who were Gwen Stefani's kind of backup dancers plus entourage. Each of them were given one of the names of this title. So one was love, one was angel, one was music, one was baby. They famously did not speak ever. They were almost like these background props. And this led a lot of critics at the time to really reject Gwen Stefani's perceived appropriation and exoticization of Japanese culture. I would love to think that Gwen Stefani is still walking around. with this posse of friends,

and they actually remained friends forever. She didn't go to Harjuku once. She actually completely transformed her identity. And she, this is obviously not the case. Like, this was like, she tried on a culture for a second, and then it sounds like she'd probably just turn around to do the next thing. Well, in her defense, she, like Megan the Stallion,

was someone who was a legitimate lover of Japanese culture. Her father was a businessman who worked in Japan for 18, years. So she grew up, always being exposed to this culture. She says her goal was to honor it and promote it. But maybe she didn't do that in the most tactful or respectful way. Yeah. I mean, Megan is sharing the mic equally with another star. It's a very different way of approaching the issue than having some people in the background. I think this is the key, Charlie. Megan the Stallion gives voice to a rising Japanese hip-hop artist, Yuki Chiba, in her track, Mamushi. She lets this culture speak for itself.

Gwen Stefani uses the culture to speak for her. And that's exactly what another pop artist did in their song, Hello Kitty, from 2013. And that's Avril Levine. Okay, besides the lyrical abomination that is, let's all slumber party like a fat kid on a pack of smarty, someone chuck a cupcake at me, which turns my stomach. It's giving big, how do you do fellow kids kind of vibe? Just like it feels like this was written by somebody who was like, I saw a postcard of Japan and we should do a song about Japanese culture. what do we say? Everle-Levin was already far into her career

at this moment. Like, she's not having slumber parties. She's not into quiet e-culture. It's just like, it doesn't read as genuine. Nor does the chorus. Come, come, kitty, kitty, you're so pretty. Don't go kitty-kitty, stay with me. That's all.

That's very silly. It's like every 10 years, there's an artist who tries this, apparently. Yeah. Right? 2004, Gwen Safani. 2013, Aver-Levin. And now, 10 years later, Megan the Stallion,

2024 with Mamushi, and yet it feels so different now. And I think that's for some of the reasons we've already mentioned. I mean, Megan, someone with a genuine love, an admiration, and deep knowledge of Japanese culture,

of anime, of Japanese hip-hop. Megan the Stallion brings these Japanese artists into the fold, the producer, Koshi, the rapper, Yuki Chiba. And she gives them a platform and allows them to speak for themselves. She doesn't use the instrumentation

of traditional Japanese culture. Instead, brings in Megan's piano. It feels a little bit more like a handshake rather than, yeah, I flew in once and I brought this little Choshky back with me kind of vibe that we get from the other songs. That's interesting.

She's maintaining her own sonic identity. So there's this sense of cultural exchange, perhaps, rather than cultural appropriation. There's a give and take, a back and forth that results in something new and exciting. and ideally, you know, beneficial for both cultures. We even talked about how she establishes this triplet feel in her voice, which is then borrowed in the second first rap.

And so there really is this exchange going on. And I feel like this is important because Japanese culture is on the rise in the United States. I spoke to Hannah Lee, who is the program associate in culture and entertainment for the Japan Society. And she told me that we should get used to more Japanese collaborations like this. Because Charlie, you and I may not be familiar with the world of anime, with Jujutsu Kaysen, with Japanese hip-hop. Not yet. But Gen Z is. 42 plus percent of Gen Z watches anime on a weekly basis.

In fact. According to the Polygon Report, more Gen Z follow anime. on a weekly basis and watch NFL or something. I was like, I can believe that. Oh, interesting, huh. So I feel like we are on the precipice of Japanese culture becoming something really ubiquitous within the United States, perhaps similar to what K-pop has done over the past two decades.

So what you're saying is Megan is catching the very start of this new wave. Exactly. At the very beginning of this episode, I described the song as kind of an outlier. but if we go back and listen to this conversation in maybe just a few years, it won't seem like an outlier at all. It'll seem like the start of a new cultural wave. Cool. And if we are on the precipice of a Japanese cultural wave, I want to look towards Megan the stallion as the standard bearer for how this can go down. Because we've heard this is what we could call a cultural exchange.

Yeah. It's respectful. It's deeply knowledgeable. It platforms and promotes Japanese artists. That's always important within any kind of cultural borrowing. But it's especially important in this relationship between Japan and the U.S. Because this is a fraught history. Yeah.

Socially, culturally, politically. World War II, the atomic bomb, Japanese intermin. I'm not saying that musicians have to deal with these. heavy historical facts, but that is always in the background of this transnational dialogue. Yeah. So here in 2024, when we might be on the verge of another moment of intense cross-cultural collaboration and exchange, who do we want leading that charge, Charlie? Is it Gwen Stefani or Megan the Stallion?

Yeah. Yeah. I know who I'm choosing. Switchdown Pop is produced by Rana Cruz, edited by Art Chung, engineered by Brandon McFarlane, illustrations by R.S. Gottlieb. Special thanks to Hannah Lee from the Japan Society and Davis Jung. We're a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network and a production of Vulture, which is part of New York Magazine. You can subscribe at nymag.com slash pod. Otaku's, webes, all other lovers of Japanese culture, find us on social media at Switchdown Pop and tell us what you're loving.

about Megan's album. Tell us what other Japanese hip-hop artists, J-pop artists, Ani song artists we should be listening to. And tune in next week when we'll be back with a brand new episode.

Until then, thanks for listening. Thanks for listening. Kasegu, O'Hareau what'stta. O'Kane, Kasegu, Watashi, what'sta. Attention, Spotify.

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