Switched on Pop - Kendrick Lamar's HUMBLE deconstructed w. guest Amber Mark

Episode Date: October 19, 2017

With Charlie off the grid, Nate sits down with singer/producer Amber Mark to explore the different levels of Kendrick's hit HUMBLE.. Then, they turn to the diverse influences (including house music, Carnatic samples, and autodidactic piano chords) behind Mark's own track "Lose My Cool." Featuring: Kendrick Lamar - HUMBLE. Amber Mark - Lose My Cool Amber Mark - SPACE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switch on Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. My collaborator, Charlie Harding, is somewhere on a flight over the middle of the country right now. So sadly, he couldn't be here. But I'm so excited because I'm in the studio today with Amber Mark. Hello, Amber. Welcome.

Hello. We are so excited to have you here. We've been listening to your EP 33 a.m. endlessly on repeat, heavy rotation, as they used to say. Thank you very happy to be here too. And so it's thrilling. We're going to talk to you not only about some of your own music, but also some of the music on the pop charts that you've been digging lately. And when I asked you what song on the top 40 had you really excited right now, your answer kind of surprised me because when we listen to your music or listening. we'll see it's very soulful, full of rich vocal harmonies and beautiful jazzy seventh chords. And then humble, well, a fantastic song, and it's great because we haven't talked about Kendrick before, is not any of those things. Yeah, that song has been really getting me going.

It's probably my most listened to track right now. And I just also really like the message, so I figured it'd be a good one. Right on. So let's spin the first. verse and chorus of Humble. Yeah, yeah. Hey, I remember Serb, sound with just and crime allowances

for messing on them with some counterfeits, but now I'm counting this, Mar-a-Jean with my- My left stroke just went viral. Right stroke, put a baby in a spot. Sit down, be humble,

Sit down, sit down, sit down. As soon as that V-Drop, we both started nodding our heads. Yes, definitely. What draws you to this song? What do you, you said you liked it's message, maybe start there.

Yeah, I mean, I really like its message. I think what did really draw me, though, initially, when I first heard it, because I don't, when I listen to music, I don't mainly go straight to the lyrics of a track. So definitely the production. I really just like that simple, low piano thing that happens in it. It sounds amazing. That sounds really sick. And I think the first time I heard it, I was in a car.

And I feel like personally, the best place to listen to music is in a car. And, like, really loud. And it was in California. Yeah. So it just kind of, I think, added to the whole experience. of first hearing it and I remember just being like wowed by that part. And then also the 808s. I just really enjoyed the production for sure.

That was definitely what got me going first. Yeah. And it's almost like this secret dream of mind to produce music like that. So I think that's like a subtle jealousy of mine. And when you say music like that, and we should mention at this point, this is a Mike Will made it production. Yeah, that's straight out of Atlanta. When you say production like that, what elements are you? referring to. I'm talking about that heavy 8-0-8, very rap-oriented, but done in a very tasteful way.

Like, I feel like there's not a lot happening in the production there. It's quite minimal. Right. There's certain accents here and there that he has like some like synthy horns and stuff going on. I'm always very pro minimal production just because I feel like a lot of the time my production is quite minimal. And then I slowly start to add, which I'm always very hesitant to do. So I do really appreciate that side of it. It's a very like aggressive. way, but done in such a beautiful way, like, lyrically. I love that.

There's like aggression and beauty simultaneously, a very sparse, almost militaristic or something production. And then the lyrics are delivered in a really, like, fast, percussive, hyperrhythmic manner. But then the subject matter, in a way, has this interesting tension with the... It's quite contradicting almost, but again, it's done. It works. which I think is really beautiful.

And again, like I said, I didn't really hear the lyrics when I first listened to it, but when actually, like, looking up the lyrics or listening to it multiple times and catching certain parts, I think what really caught me lyrically

was probably the second verse. I think also it's a message, the chorus, it's a message to really remind people, especially in the industry, whatever you're doing, it would just, you know, be humble.

So verse... Verse two, the most part that I thought was really important was the whole, I'm so fucking saying, and tired of the Photoshop. Show me something natural like Afro.

Like that whole like show me something natural like ass with some stretch marks. Yeah. I'm so, so sick and tired of the Photoshop. Show me something natural like Afro on Richard. Show me something natural. I want to feel some stretch marks in the, I think it was really great that first off,

it was a man saying that instead of a woman, which of course it's always great that women say that, but to hear it from a man who is trying to really show that natural beauty and just being natural because I feel like especially black women, which I feel like a lot of us know, they really are brainwashed in a sense with the media to want, you know, straight hair like this or get weave and, you know, just try and like completely alter their natural beauty, which I think that's what really attracted me lyrically to the song is that he's talking about

that. And then of course, the way he delivers it is obviously amazing. Yeah, I mean, he, his rhythm and everything with the way he wraps is amazing. I love your insight there because you're right, especially in the second verse, there's maybe a lot that surprises us. Yeah. We have, as you say, like a male rapper talking about concerns that you don't usually hear from people like that. And as we were describing the production of this song is having this really sparse, aggressive aesthetic. I could play that all day. Be too all out of a octave higher.

It creates productive dissonance. or something where you expect that kind of beat to be, I don't want to be too derisive or something of trap hip hop, but maybe you expect a certain kind of attitude towards the opposite sex. And here he just totally subverts that. Exactly. That's a very Kendrick thing too.

He always has a message, which is probably why he's one of my favorite rappers right now. And I think that's what's so beautiful. All of his songs, everything has meaning to it. And that's so important to me. And something that, like, I thought when I was writing my music, it was very important to me that it all had truth and it all had meaning and meant something to me personally and hopefully would mean something to other people.

Something I'm trying to do right now while writing the album is just make sure that everything, like, is actually meaningful and then has something behind it and has a story to tell. And that's what's so amazing about him to me personally. I love that. Not only does the song have meaning, as you said, it for a long time was the number one song. Yes. The country. Which is kind of incredible.

Is that like encouraging to your approach as well? I just love being able to connect with people and have them respond in a way that's telling me that it brings out emotion in them and touches them in a certain place where they really get emotional over it. So people tell me that they've cried over my music. I don't want to be like, thank you. Like that makes me so happy. But it really does that I'm like being able to bring out emotion out of people because personally that's what makes a beautiful song is whether it's happiness or something. sadness or anger or whatever it is to be able to really bring out that emotion and someone that's what music is for me personally. I love that. And they should all be number one. It's when it's

like that. Yeah. What a world. It's even better when that happens. Those moments are nice. Yes. They're all right. With meaning and the song that's popular coincide. Yes. I agree. Maybe just one more thought about this humble track. I think it all comes back to this piano line that kind of runs through the whole thing. And I think we can also use this in a way to pivot to talking about your music, because your music uses a lot of piano as well. But this is like using piano in a way that is so anti-piano. You know what I mean? It's like the whole beauty in a way of what you can do with the piano is you can make chords, you know? Yes, exactly. You can make beautiful harmonies that are lush and move you and inspire you. By contrast, this is just a

single note piano line. I wonder if that's another element that makes the song like really effective because the beat in many ways disorients us. It like doesn't use instruments in the way you expect. And even this line is a very tense line because it's very far from the root of the song, which is I guess nominally A flat. Yeah. But then this baseline only touches on A flat a little bit.

mainly it hangs around this E flat. Yeah, it always comes back to that, yeah. Yeah, which is very suspenseful because you don't really... It's almost like a building in the whole time. Right, yeah, exactly. And then it goes down to that A flat where it's, you know, supposed to go, but then it immediately jumps back up. And then you're in that sort of place of suspense and anticipation again.

So while there's not that much happening in a, I guess, melodic sense in this beat, what is happening is so calculated. to kind of put you on edge and really pay attention, I think, to what Kendrick is saying. Yeah, definitely helps. Again, it's that minimal, barely doing anything kind of, but it does a lot, which is, again, very beautiful. Once again, we're here with Amber Mark. We're going to take a short break following our exegesis of Kendrick Lamar's humble.

Despite this song, to me, sounding so different from what Amber does, I'm really curious after the break to maybe see if we can't find some connections between these two worlds. So sit tight and we'll be back with Amber Mark right after the break. Convierte your passion in a new new thing with Shopify and bathe records of ventas with the form of Pago with a better conversion of the world. Has you heard of the best. The incredible system of Pago of Shopify facilitates in your site web, in the reds social and in

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We will begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to do in this space is talk about America and politics beyond the current president. So what do most Americans think about deportation and border security, period? I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ICE.

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In the first half of the episode, we broke down Kendrick Lamar's Humble, a recent hit that Amber still has in her ears. But now we're going to turn to Amber's music. of the seven songs on your recent EP 33am, I feel like we could pick any to dive into, but the one that is continually in my head is lose my cool. It's one of my favorites too. Right on. Can we take a listen to that? I was so full of pain just stuck in my head.

There, one they could get me out of it. Yes. Drinking was a bit excessive. Just being what caused me to be aggressive. It's really hard to pause that, but we'll come back. So Amber, in addition to writing and singing, you also did the production on this track? Beautiful. I mean, I've a million questions, but I'll just ask like five of them.

This track notably starts with piano and voice. I love the beginning of it because it really keeps you on your toes. maybe there's a similarity with Kendrick actually because you've like a piano line and a vocal line that are both super syncopated and there's nothing else happening there's no percussion there's no bass so you as a listener are just constantly like trying to figure out where the beat is and and it's really and disorienting in a really in a really good way I would love to know like what was the first musical element of this song like what was the first piano for sure? I mean, I always start with piano. I think that's kind of why a lot of my music just starts with me and a piano, just because I tend to start producing. But again, I really like using piano and stuff like that. I'm trying to like kind of steer away from that now just because I've done it so many times.

But I always find myself coming back to doing that just because I find the beauty of just a voice in a piano to me is like so breathtaking when it's done right. Yeah. I mean, I tried to accomplish that. Hopefully it's been working. I mean, I think so. chords that make up the backbone of Luz My Cool. Is that right? Close. It's pretty close. Okay, thanks. It took me like five hours. I really, it's actually quite crazy because I don't really know that much music theory. So I would spend like four hours just trying to, especially with that song, I'd come up with chord

progressions and stuff like that. Really? Yeah. So you're kind of finding these progressions by ear. Yes, just by sitting at a piano and I'll have an idea in my head. So I'll try and admit it out, which takes forever. Yeah. And then it always ends up completely different to the idea. that I started with because I like get frustrated. Yeah. So it takes me a while to really, especially just with even getting a piano. When I start putting it laying down a beat, it's much easier because I'm just using the piano as like a MIDI controller. I see.

Right, right. That's fascinating to me because these chords sound very sophisticated to me. Really? Yeah. I mean, they're these gorgeous, like lush seventh chords. It's not really clear what the key is, which is cool. And then what I love about the song is that it continually surprised. you as a listener. Like I think that's one of the things I value most about this song and the other

tracks on your EP is frankly with a lot of music you can often hear where it's going. And that's not a bad thing by any means, you know. A lot of the pleasure I think in pop music is knowing where something's going to go and like appreciating the execution of it. But with your music, it's like, I don't know where it's going to go. And that even starts in this piano riff because first we have the first part which goes like this. So that's the first part of this piano riff. And then it moves here, which just the first time I heard it, I was like, whoa, I did not see that coming. Right? Again, close enough in approximation.

Yeah, that was pretty good. Nice. Oh, that's really validating. That was so easy for you to play. I'm so jealous. I wish I could just quickly learn like that. Right, but I wouldn't come up with that. Is it fair to say that your lack of theoretical training might take you to places that I wouldn't

go? You haven't been the first person to tell me that actually, the bassist in my band. and the keyboardist in their band, they both said that to me because I was really frustrated and I was kind of like, I do still to this day want to get some piano lessons just to like move a little quicker. But they were like, oh, I kind of feel like it's always good, you know, not really knowing anything when you're writing because it's a whole different ear. Whereas if you're a classically trained, skilled pianist or something like that, it seems to make everything more scientific on the music theory side of things. whereas like if you're just a new brain kind of just doing what you love essentially. Right. Then you're doing things that people haven't heard before.

Exactly. Like this little moment, which just every time I hear it, I'm just like, what? Where did that go broke? If you accept that surprise is an element of your compositional aesthetic, that continues through this track because once again, like what you might expect from this song doesn't happen. Like if I'm listening to the start of this with these gorgeous chords and soulful vocals, I'm kind of expecting something like maybe like a really stripped back R&B feel like some West Coast like the internet or something. I don't know, maybe that's what I expect like a slow jam.

I think that's what I was attempting to do in the beginning when I started writing this song and then I ended up going somewhere. Right. And let's see where you ended up going. Because for those who haven't heard it before, this might be one of the first surprises you encounter. Where did that incredible beat come from? Well, I had gotten a whole bunch of different sounds and stuff like that that day. So I think I was really excited to just kind of spend hours going through all these different sounds and stuff like that.

And so I had taken like a simple like logic sound and added another very like squary, bassy kind of sound to it. and then went up an octave and just added an arpeggiator and just played the same chords and did that. At first, I really questioned whether or not I wanted to just keep it straight piano. Right. But I really did want it to be quite an upbeat song and be lighter or brighter, I should say,

because of what the lyrics were about. They are said in a nice way, but they are very about getting angry and just lashing out on people and being very brutally honest with them. It was very important to me to kind of have that whole thing to it because I knew what I was trying to write about, which I didn't have the lyrics at the time,

but I knew exactly what it was going to be talking about. So that's kind of where the whole like bouncy house type, all of a sudden the beat has a very dance hall thing. That sound was kind of really popular at the time and or still is to this day. Totally. But I had just kind of come out, you know, and I was very in love with that, that whole rhythm. So I was like, oh, I want to do something like that. I want to kind of just have that feeling and something that makes you really want to move

and stuff like that. Kind of jump out and dance, but like not in like a like sexy way, kind of just the way where you're just like, kind of like shaking your head and moving your body and just like letting it out. Like a- Losing your cool. A cathartic way, perhaps. Yeah. Very cool. That's an amazing moment. And it's not the last surprise we're going to encounter.

That was a moment when I first listened to this song where I just had to like pick my job off the floor because I was like, wait, what just happened? So surprise number three, tell us about what we're hearing here. Okay. So those are actual other sounds that I got. It was a whole library that I had purchased because I really was very important to me, again, to incorporate a lot of Indian sounds and stuff like that and whether it was percussion or, you know, satar or even just vocal samples.

And I was going to actually do it myself, kind of do some Indian, like classical, like Carnatic, very flowy singing and stuff like that. But I really wanted a male voice to do it. And so I was looking online for some samples and stuff like that. but I didn't really find anything that I liked. And then I googled to certain libraries for a plugin that I use. And this whole library came up and it was just a bunch of like random sounds in the sky,

like just singing. And they had different keys and stuff like that. So it was really perfect for me. I just sampled him. And now I used him in a lot of the songs on the EP because of the fact that, I mean, the whole EP really has to do a lot with my mom. So I wanted it to really sound like India. She's not from India.

She's from Germany. but India was definitely her home. We lived there when I was younger and she would have lived out the rest of her life there. So I was like, okay, I want this to also sound like her and I just love that sound as well.

So that's why I ended up using him, but he's in a lot of the songs. So I've like named him like, sometimes I call him Rajah, sometimes I call Raju. Right, we also hear Raju on your track space as well. Yes.

Which creates a great continuity through the EP and as you say is not just a musical choice, but a personal choice. Not only did your mom spend time in India, you did as well, right? Yes, her choice, obviously. I was nine at the time,

so I didn't really get to make decisions. But I was happy about it because we were living in New York prior to that, and then she really wanted to go back to India, and she had been to India with my brother who was 10 years older than me when he was very little, younger than I was when she took me.

And I think she really thought it was important for me to experience it, and she really wanted to go back to further her studies and Thanka painting and stuff like that. So we moved when I was nine to 12, so I got to experience that whole vibe. And I think that's also when I really, I really did fall in love with music there,

but not necessarily because of Indian music, classical Indian music, just kind of fell in love with singing it and such because of what my mom was listening to at the time, which was like Ella Fitzgerald. But because of that, I really then became very into music and even Indian music.

and the sounds that they use. And as I got older, I really, you know, fell more and more in love with it. Thinking about the construction of this song, based on something you said when we were talking about Kendrick, which is the goal of making your music meaningful no matter what, it actually helps me understand or gives me a little insight into like how these disparate sounds came together because it's all about meaning, I guess. It's all, I mean, these sounds are there because they're important to you and they reflect what you want to say and what you want to convey.

So maybe it's like, because I was like puzzling over this, I was like, how does this work? Like, because on paper, I'm not, if you told me like, oh, this song combines R&B piano, tropical house drums and carnatic Indian vocals, I would be like, no, that's not, that's not a good idea. And yet when you listen to this, it's a very good idea. So maybe like an answer to my puzzling over that is what is the common thread here. and it's you. I guess so.

Definitely. It all goes back to my mom, I think, because it was how she had raised me. I mean, I wouldn't have gone there or even known really about the Indian culture

at all if it wasn't for her. And again, like this whole EP is kind of just how I dealt with losing her. And again, I really wanted to make this sound, represent her and sound like her and kind of show her

in a musical way so that people could kind of know her on that side of things. Yeah. And so I think that's definitely, definitely why I incorporated that. And I just really love those sounds. So it was like a win-win situation in the sense. Radu sounds awesome. Really happy to have him on. Mystery Man Raju is like one of my new favorite vocalists. You mentioned that you're trying to move away in fact from the piano.

Yes. Are you working on some new music now? I am working on new music. It's hard to move away from the piano for me because I always start on the piano. But I'm just finding myself just falling. falling right back into it. But I'm definitely kind of not really, I still have some Indian accents here. I've now, I don't know, I'm kind of just trying. Also, again, to stay away from that,

I'm just because maybe if I write about my mom or sometimes, again, like, meaning, you know, behind it. But I don't know. I've been kind of doing more of like this Brazilian, like, Bossa Nova type thing, percussion-wise and rhythmically. So I'm kind of going down that path right now. But we'll see.

end up somewhere completely different but that's where I am like in the head but writing head zone right now right well you got to know know thyself but you never know it could completely change but that's kind of what I'm doing yeah I really I've always been in love you know like Stan Gets and I sure Ghibertchu I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly and you know the whole Ghibertchu family yeah so it's always again something that my mom used to listen to when I was younger and that I fell in love with as well so I think that's probably where I take a lot of my influence from is things that I used to listen to as a kid because of her.

Totally. Well, that's, I'm really excited now to hear, to hear that the next batch of music, Fasanova, jazz, psychedelic Indian music. I'm just excited to hear whatever musical combination you come up with next. It's like the fruit roll-up factory. It's like, what is going on in there? Amber Mark, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me.

Yeah, it was really fun to talk about Kendrick and to sort of, get inside the DNA of your own music. No pun intended. Your EP 33. AM is available everywhere. Yes. And you are currently on tour. Well, let's see.

This will come out in two weeks. So. I don't know if I'll be on tour then, but I was on tour. You just wrapped an incredible tour. I did. It was amazing. Except for that one show.

Just for that one show. I was in Houston. You know. Oh, really? Yeah, October 13th, I was in Houston. Wow. It was great. Yeah.

So this was your first national tour. This was my... You already have some like tales. Yes, I did. From the road. Yeah. Yeah. I played Radio City in New York City.

Unreal. So keep an eye out for Amber's concerts and new music. And when your LP drops, we'd love to have you back. Thank you. I'd love to come back. Until then, thanks for listening to Switched on Pondon. Pop. This episode was produced by me, Nate Sloan, edited by Bill Lance. Design is by Luke Harris. You can reach us at switched on pop.com or tweet us at Switched on Pop. Amber, your handle. Oh, on Instagram is Instagramber.

Wait. That's my main social. Let's just pause for a moment to appreciate the sublime pun. Okay. Yes. Instagramber. At Instagramber. My Twitter, oh, God, I don't know. My Amber Mark, I think.

It's got a three instead of an E. I was trying to be creative in. Yeah. But definitely following Instagram. That's definitely social media. But it all links together. So I'm sure you'll find, you know, my Twitter on my Instagram. Yeah.

Yeah. Now that I know your Instagram name is Instagram, right? That's all I care about. That's all you need to know. The other ones aren't as interesting. We'll be back in two weeks with another episode. Until then. Thanks for listening.

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