Switched on Pop - Learning to love the Killers (maybe)

Episode Date: August 30, 2022

Are you like Nate? Is there one artist that, every time you hear them, you can't help it—you start to grimace, sweat, seethe. You can't explain it, but there's something about them that you just. can't. stand. For Nate, that band is the Killers. Lots of people love this band, they've been around for almost two decades, they're practically an institution! So why can't he get past his hang up? Charlie and Reanna step in to help break down what it is about the Killers that rankles their normally open-eared colleague so, and then step back to consider what it is that makes us think we hate the bands we do—and whether we can change those opinions. Songs Discussed The Killers - Human, All These Things That I've Done, When You Were Young, Mr. Brightside, Deadlines and Commitments, Where the White Boys Dance, boy, Shot at the Night, The Man, Tranquilize Ariana Grande and Zedd - Break Free Erasure - A Little Respect Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switchdom Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. And I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. And I'm producer Rianna Cruz. Charlie, Rihanna, making this show low these many years, I feel like I've become a more kind of responsible listener. And what I mean by that is I always try to come to music with open ears.

I try to be accepting, try to leave my preconceptions at the door. You're good listening Samaritan. Growth. Charlie, I remember something we said when we wrote our book. There's a saying, if you want to know someone, walk a mile in their shoes. Yeah. What did we say, Charlie? If you want to know someone listen for a mile in their ears, that's not right.

No, we said listen for an hour through their ears. but that makes a lot more sense. I was going to say listen to their podcasts. Really teed that one up. Okay, but there is one musical group that defies my most responsible listening practices. I knew there was a butt. Every time I seem to hear a song for them, my pulse starts to race, my skin breaks out in hives, my blood starts to boil. A very sensual experience you're describing here.

And that band is The Killers. Wow. Hot take. A musicologist starting a knife fight with a band called The Killers. Not going to end well for you. And I think the song that started me on this voyage of Antipathy is their hit song, Human. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was minding my own business in the protocile of Trader Joe's.

And all of the sudden, I noticed this song playing over the speakers. And I don't think it really proved that offensive. I certainly didn't, you know, grab my attention away from feeling a ripe avocado until the chorus hit. On the one hand, I'm intrigued to hear about how you handle avocados. On the other, I am perhaps a little disappointed and certainly curious about what's irking you so much about the song. It answers the eternal question. Are we human or are we dancer really makes you think. Nate's not a dancer.

That's got to be the issue. Is he human though? I'm a private dancer. Okay, listen. This is exactly why I feel like we need to have this conversation because I don't like the fact that the killers bring up all these feelings for me. I thought I was past that. I thought I was past fate and and snobbery. So I want to try to understand why this band makes me so mad. I want to listen to their newest song and I want to see if I can be swayed to rethink my anti-killer's position.

And finally, I want to try and figure out what it is we're really saying when we say, I don't like this artist. The first half of this conversation, it's, it's, it's, it's going to be ugly. What's the opposite of a greatest hits compilation? Worse hits. Okay, I probably could have come up with that on my own. So this is the worst hits compilation of the killers. Let's start with the, I think, the three major offenders in their, let's call it the triumvirate of trash. And the first one is that aforementioned chorus of the song, Human. So clearly your objection must be the grammatically incorrect use of are we dancer? Would you prefer that they say are we a dancer?

Do you have an issue with people claiming the full identity of being a dancer? Is that your problem? I actually find are we dancer to be one of the least problematic parts of this chorus. I mean, as we've discussed on the show before, sometimes grammatically, incorrect lyrics are some of the most satisfying moments in a song. Okay, agree. Ariana Grande's, uh, what is, what is that line from Break Free? Now that I've become who I really are. Now that I've become who I really are, perhaps. That's so true. Belongs in the pantheon of that. This is a better metaphor than that. That's a lazy resolution to a rhyme. Whereas what is,

are we dancer? Please don't tell me it's a metaphysical commentary on the human existence. I feel like that's their intention, whether or not it's executed. What's to say? Well, I'm certainly not the first one to complain about this lyric. You can go online and find much vitriol directed at the seeming nonsensicality of this phrase. But to me, it's like the even greater context of this chorus. Like, what does any of it mean? Are we human or are we dancer? Are we human? My sign is vital. My hands are cold. That's just gibberish. With the grammatically incorrect answer or not. Okay. I mean, with you that perhaps the second two lines, my sign is vital, my hands are cold, don't really follow from the question, are we human or are we dancer?

That said, there is an interesting musical connection with that first line where we have an underlying kick drum, four to the floor, feels heavy, feels like it should be a major dance moment in a chorus, but the music is really restrained, which might represent that tension between humanists in the want for dance and not knowing where we exist in between that binary. How much is Brandon Flowers paying you to be on this podcast right now, Charlie? I was going to say, Nate, can you see that? It's Charlie grasping at straws. No, I do appreciate your on-the-fly musical analysis and defense of this chorus. Maybe we need to hear some more. more of these lyrical misfires for you to start getting as exercise as I do when I listen to the killers. And so perhaps it's time to move to another transgression against musicality. It's all these things that I've done, particularly the second half of the song, which turns

into this, I think what is trying to be a kind of iconic chant. I got soul, but I'm not a soldier. I got soul, but I'm not a soldier. I got soul, but I'm not a soldier. I got soul, but I'm not a soldier. Yet again, another anthemic line that sounds really good and signifies nothing. I don't know if I have any more straws to grasp for here. Yeah, I don't think so.

It's really the word but that troubles me in this phrase because those two things are not connected at all. I've got a soul, but I'm not a soldier. What? Those things have nothing to do with each other. They just literally have a sound that's the same, which is soul. Okay, if that wasn't bad enough, then for two and a half minutes, they repeat this. They give us like a gospel choir as if it's the most profound utterance that any human, human being has ever come up with.

Okay, deep breath song. I'm just not that bothered. I mean, yes, there's a lyrical inconsistency because the butt does create cognitive dissonance. When you think of what it means to be spiritually connected and have soul and what it takes to be a soldier, there isn't really a butt between those things. they feel like they occupy different parts of the human experience. So, yeah, it's not a great lyric. And perhaps they really lead into it too hard.

I like how it syncopates. But, eh. I also feel like part of it has to come from the fact that Brandon Flowers grew up a Mormon. And I feel like that factors into the whole spirituality of this section. He's saying, like, I have soul. But I assume the soldier part. refers to something related to his Mormon experience. Okay, perhaps questioning the kind of doctrine that he grew up with.

Yeah, but that's me, that's me personally grasping at my straws. It's a compelling interpretation, Rihanna. I think it's a good read. Yeah. Let's go to another track and see if we can be equally as forgiving. This is the bridge of when you were young. They say the devil You don't have to drink

But you can dip your feet Once and a little while It's okay to be baptized in sin just a little bit Just slightly That's what I'm hearing It's another mangled metaphor It's saying you don't have to drink the water

But you can dip your feet in That doesn't make any sense That doesn't make any sense It's giving water park Yeah You don't bathe in the water that you're supposed to drink. These things do not go together.

It's giving like six flags Hurricane Harbor. Ew. I got to say, lyrical inconsistency is a mainstay of pop music. Like I was just listening to Duelipa's levitating. And the chorus is, I got you, moonlight. You're my starlight. I need you all night. Come on dance with me.

I'm levitating. It's like, wait a minute. Are we in outer space? Are we on the dance floor? Why are you levitating? I'm in your orbit would have been perhaps. perhaps a better extension of the earlier metaphor doesn't land as well, but it's forgiving because it's fun.

Here's the difference to me. And I respect your Duelipa levitating example, Charles. But those lyrics come in the context of a song whose only mission is to get you up on your feet and dancing and having a good time, whereas these killer songs are performing. formed in such a way that they sound like they're trying to be the most earth-shattering, revelatory, lyrical pronouncements, the way he sings them, the way the band creates these soundscapes, the way in that song we just listened to when we were young, the whole band drops out.

And it's like, listen, we're getting to the bridge of the song. We are about to drop something that's going to change your life. And then it's like, don't drink the water, but you can stick your toes in it. And it's like, what? That's what you've got for me? That's why you had to cut out the drums and bass. Okay, okay. Okay, so those were some of the musical felonies.

I think this band has committed. Now we can move to the misdemeanors. These aren't as egregious, but I think perhaps in the aggregate, I would hope you could see why I get so incensed when I hear this band. So we can listen to arguably their biggest hit. it. Mr. Brightside, what could possibly be wrong with this song, you think, right? Yeah, how dare you?

I am very excited for your negative analysis, Nate, because Mr. Brightside is one of the few songs that I've genuinely grown in a very strong dislike for over the years. I used to love it now. Can't stand it. I'm on the other shoulder. I've heard the song 2873 times, and I just really enjoyed hearing it for the 2874th time. I want more of it. I love Mr. Brightside. Once you go to a football school where you hear it at every frat party, every single function, you hear it out of cars everywhere. It sort of loses some of its effect, I'll say, because it just doesn't hit the same. Truly doesn't hit the same. Sloan?

Well, my issue with this song is very specific. That initial first verse we just listened to, you know, coming out of my cage, etc. What happens when we get to the second verse of the song, right? We just listen to the chorus. and now we're expecting the next verse which will give us a new development in this narrative of jealousy and possible redemption. And here's what happens after we come out of the chorus. Okay, it's the exact same verse.

It's the same lyric. That is lazy. At the same time, it is a very common thing. Pink Floyd do it in another brick-in-the-wall part two. Metallica does it on Nothing Else Matters. The Beach Boys do it and Girl Don't Tell Me. Oh wow, girl don't tell me. Everyone's favorite most famous Beach Boys song.

I want you, she's so heavy by the Beatles. Like the beginning of heavy metal. Okay, the Beatles one got me a little bit. But I always found it so unsatisfying because I feel like the song is such a narrative song. and at this opportunity, when it could have raised the stakes and taken it to another dimension, it just repeats the verse. It's like, what is that? I think it's a missed opportunity. I think I'm coming around to how both of you are hearing this song, because while repeating a verse can work, when the second or third time you hear it, it develops a new meaning because the music has shifted or there's been a verse in between. This is clearly just a pretty lazy, just do the verse again kind of scenario.

Rianna's kind of been on board, I think, to a degree with my anger from the beginning. Since Charlie's coming around, I feel like this is when I can deliver the fatal blow, depending on how you feel about this next example. It's deadlines and commitments. I had never heard this song before and listening to this. Nate, you kind of lost me. It sounds awesome. I don't know. It's the exact opposite of what I was.

Sorry, like, it kicks ass. What can I say? I'm a sucker for those drums. I was bopping my head to it. You had me, and then you lost me, because this song kind of rips. We'd never ride on horses that discourage you? What, that's a terrible line.

It's probably some literary reference to Milton or something important in the canon of literature, and you just haven't, you haven't thought deeply enough about this metaphor. Oh, yeah? But I don't really care, I'm with Rihanna. The song is kind of a bop.

And I like the chorus message. If you're ever falling on hard times, someone to lend a hand kind of thing. Yeah. Let's see if you can bring the same equanimity to our final selection of this hate fest. It's where the white boys dance. I mean, I don't like that.

I don't like that at all. Is that the name of a song? Take me to the place where the white boys dance. Take me to the place where they run and play. My baby is gone. You might have a chance. Just take me to the place where the white boys dance. Nate, you got me back on board.

100%. Also, that is the most out of tune singing with a groove that is the least groovy. I mean, maybe it's trying to represent the uncomfortable metaphor of, like, whiteness and artistic a creativity. Oh, Charlie, Charlie, your straws. They're over there. You got to reach. You got to reach and grasp. It doesn't work. This does not. This does not work. Congratulations for showing me one of the worst songs I've ever heard. Thank you, actually. People have bad songs in their discography. I don't think this was on the radio. No, and to be fair, this is actually from an album of unreleased songs. Hmm, I wonder why. Maybe that should have stayed. No, really? This?

Unreleased. Okay. This has definitely been probably the meanest we've ever been on this podcast. Yeah. But I do think it's been healthy for me. It feels cathartic. You has to get it off your chest. And I really do now that we've kind of released all of those nasty emotions, I want to take a break.

And when we come back, I want to try listening with fresh ears, with loving ears, kind of the way that you all have been listening, actually, and see if I can. can't learn to love the killers. Attention Spotify. Has yet got to the new Good Girl Jasmine Absolute of Carolina Herrera, a fragrance intense with character curman and addictive. Imagine a jasmine emvolventy, tofu caramelized and tonka-tostata.

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release now and I want to try and do so so in a way that is generous and open, you know, the kind of listener that I like to think I am. And already the song, I feel like even just looking at the cover art, it's making it hard for me. It's like the song is called Boy. Naturally.

It's a black and white picture of Brandon Flowers with a big bushy mustache looking plaintively out at me. He's the boy in question, assumedly. So let's see how this goes. Hit play on Boy Now. That's a note to you, Nate. Don't overthink it. Okay, this is awesome. Personally, the first time I listened to the song,

I immediately wrote it off as Human Part 2 because it sounds like if you expanded the chorus of human into a full song, right? Like, that was my first take. However, I have heard this song out in public maybe no less than eight times since it's come out. And like, that's not exaggerating. I've heard it in bars.

I've heard it on the radio. I've heard friends send it to me and be like, oh, you hear the new killer song? Like, I've heard it everywhere and I think I'm like Stockholm syndrome into liking it in a way where I'm like, ooh, this is kind of nasty. Like when the post-chorus comes and it switches up, I enjoy it. It kind of sounds like maybe late career Duran Duran to me. Like, I really enjoy where it goes. It didn't take any kind of exposure therapy for me to like it, Rihanna.

As soon as those chords in the chorus hit, I couldn't help myself. I was into this song. And then when the second verse landed and we get these pulsating synthesizers. Nice. Perfect. I was hooked. I can't deny, boy, I'm into this one. I got to say, the synthesizers are also where I was sold.

It reminds me of my favorite song of all time, A Little Respect by Erasure. Oh, yeah. Whoa. Yeah. I think it's even in the same key. DJ Rihanna. Damn, Rihanna, good ears. That's my favorite song of all time.

So I know that song extremely well, and I could clock those sins and be like, erase your sins straight up. And as soon as that kicked in, I immediately was like, this is human with the sins from a little respect. And I think that's why I like it. I think Boyd gives us a lot of what people like about the killers. They're immensely popular. and they mash up a bunch of different vibes that are familiar, but they do it in a new way.

I get like the background atmosphere of a Bruce Springsteen kind of track. I get drums and production from a racer. The vocals are very sort of Bono-esque, U-2-ish, and the guitars have a Ramones, punky thing sometimes going on. You put these things together, you get the killers,

and they've got a vibe. It might not be your vibe, Nate, but it's definitely their vibe. I think Boy has that in every way. It's very quintessential killers. So after I found myself unable not to love Boy, I thought, okay, maybe there is some redemption here. I shouldn't be going out and trying to find all the worst moments of the killers.

Maybe I can find some of the best moments, the moments like this that really make me feel good. So let me share a few of those. with you that I've discovered in an attempt to make up for all of the execration that I'd levied in the first half of our conversation. Here's a little bit of shot at the night. That's stadium music. That's fun. Yeah. Epic 80s drum fills leading into these glitzy choruses. I love it. I feel like they've always been doing the 80s pastiche, 80s revival. And I think that's why they've gotten such a fan base and why they're so big now is because they were kind of ahead of the trend in a way.

Another song that I think makes really adept references to the musical past is the man. It's a bob. The lyrics are stupid, but it's great. Oh man, if you thought that was stupid, Charlie, wait till verse two. That's bad. USDA certified lead. Talk about Paola. That is a USDA sponsored moment.

That's definitely what's happening here. I think now because it feels like they're not taking themselves so seriously, I find myself loving these silly, ridiculous lyrics in this context. Yeah. I'll give you one more. It's a collaboration with Lou Reed called Tranquilize. Baby don't talk that much. Baby knows that baby don't tease me.

I don't like that song. Well, that's okay, Charlie, because this isn't about your journey of self-reflection. This is all about me. Oh, so you produced an entire episode of the show just so that you could show off how much you don't like things, but actually you do like things. It's a hater mindset, which I respect. I'm modeling how to change one's, mind, right? What did Ralph Waldo Emerson once say? Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

That'd be a great killer's lyric. Seriously, though, thank you for being my co-pilots on this journey of self-discovery. Yeah, what do you learn? Well, on one hand, I think I maintain what I thought at the beginning of this episode, which is that ultimately there is no objectively bad music. And even hearing your reactions to some of these songs that caused me such pain and discomfort, and you either outright enjoyed them or, you know, at best just like tolerated them, that shows that whenever you have a reaction to a song that's really powerful, I think it's worth stepping back and thinking about,

okay, what am I actually feeling here? What is going on in my life when you are in the grocery store and you're all of the sudden shaking with rage because a song comes on the radio that you don't like? Chances are it's not the song that's the problem. I knew you were the problem all along. Yeah. It's the guy eating the chocolate cover peanut butter pretzels. So to everyone out there listening, I guess what I want to say is if I can learn to love the killers, I think anyone can learn to love. love even the music that they find most distasteful.

And in fact, I would love to hear from people what are the bands that make them quake with rage and whether they might be able to find something in that music that's actually redeemable and perhaps even beautiful. Switch on Pop is produced by Rihanna Cruz, engineered by Brandon McFarlin. This week, we're edited by Liza Yeager, illustrations by Iris Gottlieb, community management by Abbey, our executive producers are Hannah Rosen and Ashok Karwa. Remember of the Vox Media Podcast Network and a production of Vulture. You can find this anywhere you get podcasts and on our social media, Twitter, and Instagram at Switched on Pop.

This week marks the start of the fall 2020 school semester. So I want to give everyone a little bit of homework. What is the band that rankles you that you can't get out of your head in a bad way? Tell us on Twitter, on Insta. We're dying to know and maybe even think about. what it is that makes you feel that way. Extra credit, if you can tell us why you were wrong and turn your listening around, all the better.

And finally, before we sign off, our incredible illustrator, Iris Gottlieb, who makes the brilliant designs for every single episode, has a new book out called Everything is Temporary, Illustrated Contemplations on how death shapes our lives. It's beautiful. It's moving. It's funny. Go check it out at her website, Iris Gottlieb.com. We'll see you again next Tuesday.

And until then, thanks for listening.