Switched on Pop - Miley Cyrus goes avant-garde

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

Miley Cyrus just released three singles from her ninth studio album, Something Beautiful. Inspired by Pink Floyd's The Wall—specifically the 1982 feature film based on the album—Cyrus is not just sharing new music but a whole visual album, each song accompanied by a music video shot by director Panos Cosmatos. We last heard from Cyrus in 2023 with her massive smash "Flowers," which found the industry veteran finding some kind of inner peace. With her new songs, Cyrus is turning from healing herself to healing the world. She described the project as "a concept album that’s an attempt to medicate somewhat of a sick culture through music." What does such an endeavor sound like? For one, a lot of surprising textures and collaborators: Shoegaze guitarists, jazz saxophonists, indie rock producers. At least, sounds that are surprising to those who only know Cyrus from "Flowers," "Wrecking Ball," and "Party in the USA." The true Miley stans expect the unexpected from an artist who, it turns out, has always been weird. Songs Discussed Miley Cyrus - Flowers, Prelude, Something Beautiful, End of the World, Dooo It!, Malibu, Cattitude (feat. RuPaul), Plastic Hearts Blank Banshee - Eco Zones Caroline Polachek, Oneohtrix Point Never - Long Road Home D'Angelo - Send It On Alice Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders - Journey In Satchidananda Whitney - Forever Turned Around ABBA - Mamma Mia, Dancing Queen Alvvays - Easy On Your Own? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switch on Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. And I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. Charlie Harding, unlike a lot of people out there, I have a lot of sympathy for massive world-beating pop stars. A lot of you say that. I mean, it looks easy, right?

You're on top of the world. You're fully in control. But I think you and I know better. Actually, these pop stars, these people at the top of their game, they have a lot of pressure on them. They have a lot of expectations. Every single musical and cultural move they make is under intense scrutiny. Every release is not just a musical statement.

It is a referendum on your entire personality and worldview. Fame is isolating. I don't wish it upon anybody. Heavy lies the head, Charles. So I always get a little nervous excitement when a big pop star is about to release new music. And I'm especially excited because the pop star that we're going to talk about is coming off arguably their biggest career high. I'm referring to Miley Cyrus. When we last heard from Miley, it was 2023 and her song Flowers was inescapable.

Huge hit when it was released in 2023. But two years later, you know, Miley might be forking over a lot of money for those flowers. According to an NBC news article, Miley Cyrus is facing a potential wrecking ball of a copyright infringement lawsuit because Flowers, of course, nods to Bruno Mars as if I was your man. And she's currently being sued because of that connection. Proving my point, Charles, exactly. Because if you're successful in pop music, everything is scrutin. let's leave that interpolation drama to the side momentarily. Sure.

And focus on this glossy disco bop that was simply everywhere. And not only that, represented an important milestone in Miley Cyrus's career. It was her coming to peace with herself. I mean, when Flowers was released, Miley had lived many show business lives. She was born into country royalty. She became a child star at Disney. She was a pop ingenue, a glam rocker, a roots balladeer. And finally, a world-conquering industry icon, already kind of a quasi-legend at only 30 years old.

And she'd been through a lot in that time. Criticisms of perceived cultural appropriation, discussion of her sexuality, rifts with her family, a divorce. On her release prior to Flowers, 2020's Plastic Hearts, she sang that she felt nothing. Fast forward to flowers, and she's loving herself better than anyone else can. She's been through a lot. Now, I'm happy for her, but I feel like as an artist, this is a sensitive place to be. Because where do you go after you've reached self-fulfillment? Like, credits are already rolling.

You're walking off into the distance. I guess you need a sequel. In some ways, it's easier to mine your heartbreak and depression for musical inspiration. than it is to come out and say, look at me, I'm self-actualized, I'm doing great. No one wants to hear that. I'm still happy. I was happy, happy still, checking back in. No problems. So I think she's in an interesting position. She's just released new music this week. What is it going to sound like? And the answer, it turns out, is it's going to sound weird. Deeply existential. Experimental, avant-garde. There's collaborations with shoegaze guitarists and jazz saxophonist.

and indie rock producers. The sound is less personal, more mystical. Hmm. Okay, so we've got three singles so far from her upcoming ninth studio album, including the title track, Something Beautiful. Miley says this project was inspired by Pink Floyd's The Wall,

especially the 1982 feature film based on the 1979 album, because Something Beautiful is a visual album. Each song is going to be accompanied by a short film slash music video thing shot by director Panos Cosmatos. And this is in search of a bigger goal. Here's what I mean. She told Harper's Bazaar, quote, it's a concept album that's an attempt to medicate

somewhat of a sick culture through music. Okay, Charlie, so what I want to do is listen to each of these three songs and hear what a pop star sounds like who has healed herself. and now wants to heal the world. Wow. No, Charlie, that's not the introduction to a 1960s minimalist composition by Terry Riley. Yeah, I'm hearing like the minimalist performances of Steve Reich or even like the Coyona Scotse soundtrack by Phil Glass.

But yes, very minimalist electronic. Definitely in that wheelhouse. No, this is the first track of this upcoming album and it's fittingly called Prelude. Let's come back to those references in a moment. But before we do, skip a little further ahead to hear what this quote-unquote song is actually about. It's really more of like a spoken word intro. Anyway, I'm going to skip towards the latter half. Like witnessing my body standing in a mirror who finds alone is a prayer that longs to be shared.

Whoa. I love this album. I haven't even heard it yet. This is just a prelude. What? Aking to be seen, aching to become real, but the beauty one finds alone is a prayer that longs to be shared. Help me disentangle this.

We are a long way from flowers. And yet, I feel like there is a continuation of that sentiment. You know, I can buy myself flowers. The beauty one finds alone is a prayer that longs to be shared. So may I interpret this as, I... I found peace with myself on my last album, and now I'm ready to share that piece with the world. There's a little bit more here, though, because you skipped over some of the introductory lines where she says, like when following an image from a train, your eyes can't keep the passing landscapes.

Like when following an image from a train, your eyes keep passing landscapes from being swallowed into endless distance. There's sort of an inevitability of life that I feel like she's communicating. it turns darker. She talks about ashes. They will fall through your hands and dissolve into air. It's a very surrealist poem that has hints of that joy from that earlier album, but a lot more of like fate and the things that we can't control. It seem to be some of early metaphors that I'm picking up on.

Well, maybe that's why we're hearing this reference to minimalist music. And by minimalist, we mean 1960s composers like the aforementioned, Steve Reich, Philip Glass, Terry Riley. Their music is incredibly repetitive. It grows on a kind of cellular level developing over slow periods. We could take the beginning of this Miley Cyrus track, Prelude, and compare that to

Philip Glass's composition, two pages. Now, his is in 5'4, hers is in 4-4, but there is that sort of layered texture where like a wind instrument, maybe a synthesizer, things that are all bound together, you can't quite distinguish exactly what they are playing these descending arpeggios that feel like they're leading off into the distance forever.

It's inexorable. Once you start the process, it has to continue to its inevitable conclusion. I'm using the word you used earlier, inevitability. That's what we're hearing on this prelude. And it's not just 1960s minimalism. Is it fair to say that I detect some vapor wave references here as well, Charles? Oh, yeah, that's that Kmart music. Oh, yeah. That's EcoZones by Blank Banchi. I thought of this because years ago we covered the weekend's Dawn FM where he worked with One Otricks Point Never to create this sort of vapor wave tapestry.

I wonder if Miley's exploring something similar here. Right, which is a faux nostalgia for a non-existent digital past, reclaiming capitalist background musac for some. contemporary, I don't know, like work playlist. Is that what that music is? That what Paperwave is? Beautifully said, Charles. And I feel like that maps to this theme of, you know, ashes slipping through your hand, the temporality of everything. Everything's inevitable. It's also temporal. And she's titled the piece, Prelude. That's kind of like placing herself in a particular musical history, right? Prilude is a feature you find in Baroque and classical

music going back to the time of J.S. Bach. It's like setting the table. It's clearing the slate. It's putting you into the musical world that you're about to inhabit. It's saying, hey, this is some serious music worth paying attention to. Like, I'm putting myself in the same world as J.S. Bach. I'm writing a prelude. Get ready for this album. It's about to unfold. Serious is a good term. I feel like this is Miley Cyrus saying, I'm going to have my Carolyn Polichick moment here. I'm not going to give you the bright sheen of another disco throwback. I'm going to do something kind of bold and off the wall. Something like you might have heard on Carolyn Pulichick's album, Desire I Want to Turn

Into You, a song like Long Road Home. Experimental vocals, borrowing instruments from the orchestra. Yeah, it's saying, like, I'm making some serious avant-garde music. And I think Miley is not above that. She has previously collaborated with indie alternative. avant-garde, non-describable band, The Flaming Lips. And so I'm excited that she is taking us on this journey. It is not some pleasant flowers, but rather a pretty heady musical space.

If you hit play on Prelude and thought, okay, maybe that was just a one-off, maybe that was kind of an aberration. When you get to the next track, something beautiful, you realize, no, this is just the sound that Miley is going for. This track starts with a kind of familiar 6-8 R&B rhythm, but it's in this kind of off and glitchy, shadowy way. Is that Pino-Paladino on bass? That is indeed legendary session musician Pino Piano.

Are you serious? I'm right? Yeah, I thought you had read the liner notes. I'd begrudgingly impressed with that identification. Well, because it reminds me of his work with DiAngelo. It sounds like it could be like a B-side. to DeAngelo's voodoo. It's got that 60s retro Motown sound, but it's dragging in time.

It's really bubbly. Yeah, in terms of the opening groove, this feels like a spiritual successor to these slinky six-eight love jams like you would hear on Send It On from Voodoo. And then let's hear a little bit of the Miley again. So what is this like Neo-Neosol? What are we listening to?

This is neat. We've got some really fun chords here. A flat major to E flat major. And then up to an F dominant seven? You're the jazz guy, but my functional harmony courses tell me that those chords don't usually belong together. They're weird chords for an artist entering their weird era, for sure. And potentially another throwback to this sort of R&B sound of the year 2000 that DeAngelo was working on. And then we get the opening lyrics.

Tell me something beautiful. Too night, but too long. You know, the song that this makes me think of is like Billy Alice has Birds of a Feather, where she opens up with this sort of like, the lyric about love in a graveyard. Miley Cyrus is doing a similar kind of thing. She's like, tell me something beautiful. Like, what a lovely opening line.

And then until your lips turn blue. Yeah. That's so. The song takes this really dark turn. And now this instrumentation that feels throwback and nostalgic, set against the weird, clicky drum machine, it's starting to feel like we're going really deep and dark. There's a lot of contradictions here. Tell me something beautiful until your lips turned blue.

But then I don't want to talk about it for too long. But then, now I think I do. There's a lot of like going back and forth here, which I appreciate. It's unsettled. I mean, lips turning blue is frankly morbid. She could have said, let's talk all night, tell me something beautiful. Let's stay up until the break of dawn. Instead, tell me something beautiful to your lips turn blue feels like something is going wrong with her lover.

A little macaw. It's also kind of sensual. Yeah? Let's see what happens when we get to the pre-course. These sounds. I knew you would dig this, Charlie. It's all sounds. Can I just spout out.

Okay, there's a snare drum with this spring reaver, which is very 60s Motown. It's got these beautiful horn arrangements coming in, which, what is saxophone doing in a Miley Cyrus track? And then she is singing the onomatopoeas of crash bang, boom, like the sounds of a jazz band. And I feel like things are about to explode. Flash, bang, spark. In addition to all those explosions you just described, there's a harmonic

explosion as well. Back in the verse, we were in the key of E flat major, and then you're like, wait, but we end with F major, that's weird. Now the F major becomes a pivot to take us into this sort of darker terrain. F major, and then we settle into D minor. So we're into even further uncharted harmonic territory. This section I found really surprising, but it was nothing compared to my shock upon reaching the chorus of this track. This gives the feeling of the monster is getting closer, your feet are moving slower, and some terrible thing is going to happen. It's such a crazy moment.

Wow. It is the opposite of what a lot of contemporary pop songs do, where I feel like the chorus is supposed to offer the sense of like release and relief. This is the opposite. It's dark. It's heavy. It's distorted. It's just this D minor chord just cut.

just cutting through your nervous system. Yeah. It is one of the most out of nowhere moments in like a Bobstar's catalog that I've ever heard. And it's kind of constantly dragging. Like it's never hitting perfectly on the downbeat. I feel like each time it's like a little bit slower. Maybe another metaphor is it has that feeling of like your foot gets stuck in the mud and then it's getting like slipping further and deeper and you're getting sucked into this abyss

as the time slows down. Am I making any sense here? I don't know, but that's how it makes me feel. That, to me, signals the work of one of the many collaborators on this track. It's the Canadian producer, Sean Everett, who's worked with Casey Musgraves and the killers and the Alabama shakes. There's kind of a rock aesthetic here that I really like because it contrasts with that R&B aesthetic we heard earlier. Yeah, and also takes her back an album or two, back to her. to Plastic Hearts, which was a very rock-oriented album.

But that's not the only other style I'm hearing here, Charles, because when we get to the outro of this song, one of my favorite music styles appears. I'm talking about the J-word jazz. That horn. I'm so glad you asked, no one has ever raced to lighter notes quicker than I did when I heard these whaling saxophones. We have Josh Johnson, A wonderful L.A. bass musician who plays with guitarist Jeff Parker, among others. Adam Schatz of the Landlady Band, who's a longtime stalwart of the progressive jazz scene.

Our buddy, John Natchez, who is a regular Dave Harrington collaborator. No way. And plays with the war on drugs. The drummer, Nick Hakim. I mean, these are like heads, Charlie. These are deep jazz heads. These are your people. And I was doing a double take when I saw all their names on this album.

Okay. exciting about the jazziness of it for you all. I'm curious about how it connects to what she's saying in this song. Earlier she was like, crash bang, boom, everything's about to explode. Then everything explodes. And what is she saying during this explosive jazzy outro? Well, there's no lyrics here.

It's just vocalizations. But I think there's one kind of obvious connection, which is this is a song where the chorus is all about losing your breath. She sings, I'm losing my breath. it's popping out of my chest, I'm losing my breath. So it seems appropriate to have like some wind instruments playing so hard that it almost sounds like they're running out of breath. Cool.

But then there's this other dimension, which is going back to the kind of almost Zen existentialism that we've been hearing on some of these tracks. I feel like that's part of jazz, especially jazz of the 60s and 70s, Jazz like you would encounter from Alice Coltrane and Farrow Sanders on their track, Journey in Satchadena. Okay, was I looking for an excuse to play that in our Miley Cyrus episode? Yes, yes, I freely admit it. But I do maintain that there is a kind of spiritual connection here. Maybe this is yet a further reach, but I feel like so much of the identity of that music from the 60s was also connected to the existential.

of the Cold War. And here we have this song, which is both moving, beautiful, tell me something beautiful, some sort of romantic connection. And yet this flash, this bang, this spark leads into her singing about, you know, the great golden bomb, bomb, bomb. And there is a correlation between love and war going on in this song that I think was a theme that we heard in a lot of 1960s tracks as well. If I could do some more liner notes decoding here, Charlie. There's another producer, Jonathan Rado, who's worked with Wise Blood and Father John Misty, formerly of the indie band Foxygen. And I have an inkling that he might be responsible for this lush sax sound that we're hearing because on an album that he produced by the band Whitney forever turned around, you hear a very similar aesthetic. I feel like this is where I have to say, though I loved some of the singles off of the last Miley Cyrus,

album, I did find the overall scope of the work to be a little bit safe. And I felt like there was a lot of collaborators. It was like, let's make another pop song. And I feel like what I really like about the sort of bold choices she's making here, she's choosing a group of collaborators that have some kind of sound that they can do, that when brought together can make something unlike anything that's ever been exactly made before. And I think that's what pop collaboration in the 21st century is great at. It's like, select all of these different great skills, bring them together. We've got something new. Let's take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll hear how that ethos of collaboration

plays out in the next single end of the world. And we'll go a little deeper into something you've said. Was Miley always weird? Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova, and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay.

Ready? Ready. Do not sugarcoat something for me. No. No. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being

unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. Okay, everything we've heard from these new Miley songs has been surprising. Yeah. And this next track, end of the world is no exception. I know what you're thinking, but wait, isn't this just a return to that throwback disco sound from Flowers? That's what I was thinking. And I acknowledge we have some similarities. We also have the return of some of the songwriters from flowers, namely Michael Pollock and All Day. But if we keep listening to the verse, I think there's another musical reference that's happening. And that influence is legendary, Swedish supergroup Abba. Wait, what? Don't pretend, Charlie. This has got Abba written all over it. Not only do we hear

piano stabs reminiscent of dancing queen, but we also have a call and response between instruments and vocals a la Mamma Mia. Wait, I got to hear the Maya again. Wow. You know, maybe in maybe in 2025 it is experimental to reference Abba. No, I don't think we've gotten to the experimentalism yet. I think this is all a ruse. She's luring you in saying, look, it's Flowers Part 2.

But as this song progresses, the experimentalism, the weirdness starts to seep in. Let's pretend it's not the end of the world. Okay, to quote a great jazz album from Medeski Martin and Wood, this song is an end-of-the-world party just in case. It is eschatological Swedish pop. Yeah, okay, the world is ending, but let's have a nice time. That's kind of the disco vibe is giving. Okay, weird, experimental, maybe those are strong descriptions here.

This is still pretty accessible, even if it's got this certain apocalyptic sheen to it. And there's nothing wrong with accessible. I love accessible music. I don't want to be total snobs and say, experimental is what gets us going. But I want to shout out a really interesting element here, which is Shugay's music. this washy style of post rock that a lot of people attribute at the start to the Irish band, my bloody Valentine. And if you think of the most adept modern proponents of this sound,

I think it would have to be the Canadian outfit always. Their album, Blue Rev, is one of my favorite records of the recent past. And you can hear this washy sound on a track like EZion. Shuge's takes the 1960s wall of sound and turns it into a wall of noise. Yes, and I'm not just mentioning this for the sake of it. Molly Rankin and Alec O'Hanley of that band always are co-writers, vocalists, and guitarists on this track. So go back to that end-of-the-world chorus and listen to it this time as a Shugee song. I can hear some Shugee-Gaisiness, yes.

But I also hear in this final chorus a wonderful re-harmonit. new chords over the same lyrics and melody that makes this end of the world party feel a little bit less like a party, even if it has those great Abba piano stabs. And by the way, Abba, who might be known for things like Dance a Queen, really broke out with their song Waterloo, which is an incredibly weird song that metaphorizes Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo as a way of romantic surrender. So perhaps this end of the world war-like themes even fit into this Abba reference. Yeah. Yeah. The big guitar is shoegasy. It's all there.

And it makes me think that Ava is we might remember as well. Oh, Abba's funky. Turns out Miley Cyrus is weirder than I thought as well. You actually referenced this earlier, Charlie. I've been sharing these tracks, prelude, something beautiful, end of the world. And I've been like, what's going on here? We've got Shugays. We've got vapor wave, we've got minimalism, we've got jazz.

This is so surprising for Miley Cyrus. But I don't think I should have been so surprised. Because I asked our producer, Rihanna Cruz, to go through Miley's catalog and find me all the antecedents for this kind of experimentalism. And it turns out there's a lot. There's that collaboration with the flaming lips that you mentioned earlier, Charlie, Miley Cyrus and her dead pets, pets with a Z. That's from 2015 And here's the first track

Do It, let's do it with three O's And an exclamation point Whoa, whoa I did not give that element to do when it came out That's wild Why there is trees And what the F is love And what is flying saucers

Watching from above We are a long way From Party in the USA, my friend This must have been a bit of her psychedelic era, it sounds like. Indeed. which was followed in 2017 by her Americana era, the album Younger Now, written and produced entirely by Miley and Orrin Yowell with Dolly Parton features and a laid-back Rootsie hit in Malibu. I remember when this came out and I felt it to be just kind of like another pop song, but now I'm listening to it, I'm realizing it's got this really low-fi guitar with a very naked vocal, just front and center, super,

raw, very exposed. I like this. Which could not be more different than 2019's, she is coming with songs like Catitude, featuring Rupol. My Lee Cyrus, bitch, you look like you did already did have yours. You better go take your country ass in doors and put some damn clothes off because nobody needs to be seeing all of that. The library is officially open.

Now I'm realizing. that Miley is just a huge music fan. Like, her tastes are everywhere. She clearly wants to make every kind of music. And that is captivating to me as someone who is a fan of just so many different kinds of music. She's taking us on a world tour. I know. It's really put me in check, Charles, because when I think of Miley Cyrus, here's what I think of.

I think of flowers. I think of wrecking ball. I think of party in the USA, which are all, you know, unqualified bops. but are not what I think of as, you know, pushing the envelope of what we know pop music to be. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I hopped off the plane at LAX with a dream and my cardigan, welcome to the land of fame and excess.

Am I going to fit in, Nate? You do move your hips like, yeah, so I do. Your point is well taken. And a Jay-Z song was on. But I was missing so much, Charles. I was missing the weird prehistory of Miley Cyrus. I was missing all the eccentric collaborators that she's picked up along.

the way. I was missing what you described, her genuine love for music of all stripes and sounds. And so I shouldn't have been so surprised when I heard these new releases and encountered a pop artist pushing into new sonic territory and embracing her status as a 32-year-old music industry legend. I'm here for it. And I'm excited to hear the rest of this album and what other strange sounds might be in store. So, Nate, at the beginning, you're like, I'm sympathetic to pop stars. It is not easy having a referendum on your entire prior identity. And what I'm learning about Miley, she's kind of beyond it all. Like, she's willing to just say whatever she wants to say, even if it's not the sound of the moment, even if it's not cool, even if it's referencing some like

really wild throwback experimental music. And perhaps one of the things that you can be rewarded with in a late career album move like this is you can really turn on the jazz heads and former or sometimes still current music snobs musicologists, music professors, people who really love music. So she's making one for the heads and my guess is as this album rolls out

we're going to hear a lot more bops too because she's not afraid to make a damn good pop song as well. Is that the title of this episode, Charlie? One for the heads. One for the heads. I dig it. Alternate title, in case we don't run with it, for the heads. For the heads.

All right, Charles, elephant in the room, at the end of our last episode. Yeah. Everyone's favorite part of the episode, the very last moment. It's where we always reveal our deepest darkest secrets. I said that we would be covering on this episode, Generation Taylor, how a generation of songwriters was inspired by the singer-songwriter Super. star Taylor Swift. We have obviously not done that because I have a really exciting interview I was able to score. So I didn't want to do that episode until I was able to incorporate this conversation.

So loyal listeners, hang tight. We will get to Generation Taylor. Okay, Generation Taylor, coming sometime in the coming weeks. Until then, this has been switched on pop. It's produced by Rihanna Cruz, engineer by Randi McFarlane, edited by Art Chong, illustrations by Iris Gottlieb. Our theme song is by Zach Gennario and Jossi Adams of Ark Iris. Remember of the Vox Media Podcast Network and production of Vulture, which is part of New York Magazine. You can subscribe at mymag.com slash pop. Find us on social media at SwitchedonPop.

Go to our website, switchonpop.com. Sign up for our newsletter. And we'll be back next week with, what are we going to do next week, Charles? It's a surprise. Just like Miley Cyrus's new releases. I see what you did there. All right.

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