Switched on Pop - My Beyoncé Ticket Cost $4,000: Why the Touring Industry Might Be Broken – Into It with Sam Sanders

Episode Date: July 4, 2023

Us at Switched On Pop are off on vacation, but don't fret – this week we're still bringing you an episode, courtesy of the Vulture podcast Into It with Sam Sanders. If you've openly wondered why concert tickets seemingly have gotten more confusing and expensive, this episode's for you. – Content creator and head of the Beyhive Kalen Allen is more than OK spending four thousand dollars on one ticket for Beyoncé’s Renaissance tour. 2023 feels like a big year for huge stadium tours for artists like Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, Bruce Springsteen, Ed Sheeran and more. But why are tickets so expensive, and how much are fans willing to put up with in order to go? Sam talks with music journalist Nate Rogers about why the touring industry might just be broken and what lawmakers and some artists are trying to do to fix it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We're away this week on vacation, but we have a cool story for you coming from the Vulture podcast, Intoit with Sam Sanders. Sam's a friend of the show, and this episode is about concerts. So if recently you've thought that maybe ticket prices are too expensive, or you also have a vendetta against Ticketmaster, this episode is for you. You're listening to Intuit from Vulture and New York Magazine. I'm your host, Sam Sanders.

So then what level of a beehive member do you consider yourself to be? Oh, I have Renaissance on vinyl. Okay. I've seen her live now five times. And I am the kind of fan who knows that actually the best Beyonce album is B-Day. Okay. See? I'm in.

I'm with you on that one. That is Kailen Allen. You could call him the executive director of the Beehive. I don't like to say this about myself because I think there are some really crazy Beehive fans. But if you really ask anybody, majority of Beyonce fans will know who I am. You're the biggest Beyonce fans. I'm up there. You may have known Kalyn as a staple on Ellen's daytime TV show before it ended last year.

Hey, Kaelin. How you doing? I'm good. How are you? I'm wonderful, baby. I'm here with you. Or from TikTok. I booty getting big.

Don't talk to me because I'm going to be thick up in the street. So, yeah. Kailen does a lot. But for a few weeks earlier this year, his biggest job was trying to secure. secure tickets to Beyonce's Renaissance World Tour. Now, we're going to start this video by detailing and telling everybody how I ended up in sections at past concerts. Kalen documented his entire journey in detail.

But I do not want to go to jail because sometimes I did have to finesse. This year, Kalen is not alone. Hell, I traveled to London to see Beyonce perform. A lot of people all over the country, all over the world, they've been trying to get tickets to some really big tours this year. Taylor Swift, Bruce Springsteen, Drake, Madonna. There are way too many to count, which has me wondering,

what is up with this year and touring? And why does it feel like good tickets these days are more expensive than ever and harder than ever to get? This episode will talk about all of that. First, we'll hear a bit more of Kalin's saga, and then we'll talk with a reporter who covers the music industry.

He says, the entire touring economy right now is pretty broken. And there is someone to blame rhymes with thicket caster. All of that and more after the break. Stay with us. So it all started the night of the Grammys.

Okay, okay. It was the night of the Grammys and we all had... When Beyonce wins like the record breaking Grammy. Because we are witnessing history tonight breaking the record for the most Grammy wins of all time. The upstanding and Show your respect.

It's Renaissance. Beyonce. And, you know, all of us, we, everybody, depending on what date you were trying to get tickets for, were put in, like, these groups with Ticketmaster. Yes. And you had to sign up to get on a, you know, to get in to get the tickets. Basically, once the tour was announced.

Correct. You had to apply for tiered status at which point you could try to get tickets. Exactly. But everyone was already scared by this point because they had seen what had happened with Taylor Swift. Which is why this was introduced. because I remember being in high school for the Mrs. Carter Show World Tour and having like three laptops set up. Stop. And my chemistry teacher letting other people in the class get on their laptops to help me get tickets.

That's an ally. I know, right. We love an ally. He was holding it down, okay? And so we were all on the laptops and we were refreshing to get us into it. You know what I mean? And so this time, when this new way was introduced, I was a little nervous. And tell us the way, because I've forgotten how they did it.

Well, it was just like you said, there were like these tears. But the problem was, so on the night of the Grammys, I got an email saying that I had been placed on the wait list. All right, everybody. So it's officially day two without having any Beyonce tickets. It's like they're already telling you you're never going to go. Right. It's like a lottery kind of thing, like a little draw. You know what I mean?

And so I was like, how out of the world am I on this wait list? And then you never knew when you were going to get off the wait list. See. But the way that I got in was that there was a Verizon sale. It was like Verizon up sale. And my cousin had Verizon. Not my cousin. Yes.

And so I was like, can you give me your log in so I can get in and get these tickets? And so she gave me the login. That is against Verizon policy. Oh, well, but they should have taken me off the wait list. So then I got in. And then that was when I bought tickets for L.A. And then I had also, because you can use different email addresses, Did you make up alias email addresses?

So I had other email addresses. So that's how I got into the Kansas City sale. And that one wasn't hard. You know, the Midwest is a very different beast. So let me tell you where I'm at. Okay. Where were you at in London? Where were your seats?

Club Renaissance. Okay. So first show here in New York. And we're just like the Club Renaissance is the kind of mosh pit around the center stage. Correct. Correct. So the first show, I am on the on stage risers. You can do that?

Yes. I thought it was just friends of Beyonce. No, no, no, no. Those are, those tickets you could buy. They're called. They're called the on-stage VIP Rizers. How much does that cost? $4,000.

For one. For one ticket. How do you feel about that? I'm okay with that. Are you okay with that? Well, okay. So I was okay with it. And then, of course, I've watched the show, so I know it front to back.

Yes. And I'm like, she's not spending enough time. The ballads are over there by the panel, but then once she starts moving, she starts moving to the center. Right. To the center. I need to feel the sweat come from her weave and hit me hopefully in my cornea. I already anticipated that she would be spending the majority of her time in Club Renaissance.

Exactly. So in the middle here, the fact that this is called Club Renaissance makes me believe that a lot of the action is actually going to happen in this space. So in my opinion, Club Renaissance are the best tickets. That's where I want to be. When I got off the wait list, there were no Club Renaissance tickets. Oh. So there was literally the only eye.

options were the beehive pits next to the runway or the on stage risers or just like regular floor seats. The Beehive pits was good, though. Right. Okay. So the second night here in New York, I'm in the Beehive pit. Okay. So, and then in Kansas City, I'm in Club Renaissance. Sweet.

That's where I was. Now, I haven't bought the ticket for L.A. yet. And let me tell you why. Why? Because the L.A. ticket is September 4th, right? Yes. So New York is, uh-huh. Yeah, exactly.

That's why I got on. So New York is July 29th and 30th. And then the Kansas City show is September 18th, right? But I need to go and see it and figure out where I want to be. And, you know, I need to be where Beyonce can see me. You know, because I'm getting custom outfits made. She talks to the people out there. Exactly.

So I need to be. She'd be like, yeah, you're here for the fourth time. Yeah, girl. I want you to estimate how much money you've spent so far on those three tickets. What would you say? Close to probably $7,000, $8,000. Stop. I work my ass off.

There you go. It's your money. It's my money. I work my ass off to be able to go where I want, when I want, okay? And I'm going to spend my money the way that I want to spend my money. I love that. And if I go bankrupt because I was at Beyonce, so be it. What a great way to go.

I know. What a great way to go. I'm going to call her. Hopefully she let me move in or something. Now, you documented how hard it was for you to get tickets to all these shows. You made TikToks. Welcome back to KNTY Channel 4 News, where our team is. has been providing nonstop coverage of the long-awaited Renaissance World Tour.

There were articles written about you. You ended up in a piece on the Atlantic. Why do you think people connected so viscerally to your very public struggle to get these tickets? Well, I think it's mainly because of the fact that I've worked with Parkwood and they know that I've done like I've worked the wearable art gala for Beyonce's mom. I think it showed that this was a struggle that everybody was going to have. You're family and you still having a fight. Right. It's like everybody is having this.

I think that's one of the reasons. And I think also, because some people may see it, and they'll be like, it's just a concert, it's nothing else, but I only go to Beyonce concerts. Oh, really? It's very only, I go to Beyonce, Mariah Carey. So it's like, for me, because it's somebody that works all the time, it's like, that's my release.

So do you think there's something in the air this year? I've been seeing all these young women out at the Taylor Swift shows, so many people that they now tailgate in the parking lot around the stadium during the shows. What is it in the air right now that's making for all these big-ass tours? The pandemic. Tell me more. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that we, for so long, we're living in this world that we never expected to ever be in.

Or get out of. Or get out of. I thought we had some stuff. Exactly. And it was the fact that we, I think people are now craving. escapeism. They are craving an opportunity to release your mind. You know what I mean? Especially when you consider the fact that during the lockdown, all of us were turning to digital media, music, movies, TV, all that to help us cope. And it was like that's what

we connected through and how to have this music that is more about joy and having fun. It's like, I need to be there. I need to have that experience. I just want to live in that moment. Thanks again to Kaylin Allen, head Beehiver in chief, and master ticket schemer. Before we go to break, come show this show a little bit of love. Tell a friend, leave us a nice little review wherever you're listening. I appreciate it. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster?

Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova, and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay. Ready? Do not sugarcoat something for me. No, no.

We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have been. demonstrated the power in being unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. So, if you thought getting tickets to Beyonce was hard, can you recall when Swifties couldn't get Taylor Swift tickets? And they sued ticketmaster and Live Nation. And the Senate Judiciary Committee held a hearing over the entire mess. Doesn't take much to conclude that the whole concert industry right now is pretty broken.

That is pretty much the conclusion of journalist Nate Rogers. Nate wrote a piece for the ringer at the end of last year, and he argued that the problem isn't just ticket master. It's everything. So people are out there.

These tours feel bigger than ever. Taylor's show is three hours long. It's a good year for big live shows. But on top of all of this, there's a big problem. It feels as if tickets have never been more expensive. Some people are shelling out thousands for good seats at Bruce or Beyonce or Taylor.

Even nosebleeds can be in the hundreds of dollars. I saw one stat that says ticket prices have gone up 20% since 2019. Does it feel that way to you? It's definitely accurate. I mean, there's a couple things going on. It's not just the ticket prices themselves, but it's also the fees have never been higher. and for what it's worth, Live Nation Ticketmaster is reporting record profits again. So they're not missing their paychecks.

Yeah. For those higher prices, is there any real explanation for that except for just greed? Well, certainly, I think that there is, I mean, you have to incorporate inflation. You have to incorporate supply chain issues. You have to incorporate COVID protocol. I mean, there are a lot of reasons why I think ticket prices had to go up. 20% worth, though? Maybe.

I mean, and this comes back to what level artists we're talking about and how this affects their pricing. You know, when I wrote that story for The Ringer about Ticketmaster, what I kind of tried to understand was what the difference was between these pop stars that are having record demand like Taylor Swift and Beyonce. I mean, they have unbelievable demand for their concerts. Ticketmaster said they were swamped by about $4 billion bot attack requests when they were initially selling pre-sale Taylor Swift tickets.

But then on the other side of that, you have what you might call indie bands or mid-level bands that are saying that the finances of touring doesn't make sense anymore. And so the band Lawrence was sort of a big, you know... Oh, they testified on the hill about ticket. Exactly. Good morning, senators, and thank you for inviting us today to the most unique gig we've had in years. They were trying to represent art as well. And, you know, one thing that they said that stuck with me was that for a $30 ticket, they're only getting...

In our case, roughly 50% of our earnings is used to cover expenses. So that leaves us with $6 for an eight-piece band, pre-tax, and we also have to pay our own health insurance. And they're the ones performing. And they're the ones performing. So it's just the margins have become very, very slim. And I think Lord said, you know, for artists like her, it's... They can lose a little bit of money on inflation on supply chain issues. But anyone below her, you know, you're looking at debt.

I hear that, but like that's separate from the fees. Like, do the fees go to the artist or to the venue or to the promoter, to the manager? I don't yet know if all of the money I pay for a ticket goes to the actual ban. Yeah, it's very opaque. And this is one of these things that comes up a lot in the conversation about how ticket agencies work, specifically how Ticketmaster has taken over the game, is already. Are they really responsible for all this, or are they just acting as the punching bag for the promoters, the venues, the artists sometimes even? And I think with certain powerful artists, they have the ability to dictate that money might go back to them.

Now, that's, I don't think, very common, but if you go higher up the chain, there is a lot more authority to dictate that kind of things than I think a band like Lawrence where they have no say over that. Totally. So, yeah, yeah. And this really came to a head. I think when Robert Smith recently of the Q. he fought back against Ticketmaster. And for the big Cure tour that's ongoing right now, one of the biggest tours of the summer, and Robert Smith, who's usually kind of a reserved private person,

did everything he could to kind of circumvent Ticketmaster's extortion ring, as critics would call it, by not allowing there being a secondhand resale market, and by limiting fees and limiting pricing for the tickets He wanted to have $20 tickets through the fan club. Did it work? Well, in the long run, it did, but it did not initially because Ticketmaster was adding, you know, almost $20 in fees afterwards. And so it kind of defeated the whole purpose of this.

And here's where it gets interesting. Robert Smith, after, when he found out about this, he pushed back so hard that Ticketmaster refunded people who had bought tickets a certain amount of money. And in the case of the people who were up in the nosebleeds and supposed to be getting his $20. tickets. They got a lot of money back. So then, why isn't Biontha doing that for me? That is a great question. And I think Robert Smith kind of showed these big

star's hands by doing this. I mean, not... These artists have more power than they admit to. I mean, I'm even thinking back to the Taylor Swift of it all. She issues a statement saying, oh, it was a bear fight. But how much could she have thrown her weight around to make it a little better for all of us? We'll get more to that later. But I do

want to ask about macro, big picture, state of the concert music touring industry, it sounds like it's pretty broken from what we've talked about so far. These tickets are astronomically expensive. Smaller artists like Lawrence can't make enough money touring. Ticketmaster feels like a monopoly. Legacy artists like The Cure are trying to advocate on their fans' behalf and being thwarted. It seems as if this whole system, it does seem broken. You wrote a piece earlier this year for the ringer titled, Is Live Music Broken? Is everything in this concert touring industry broken right now? If so, how? Well, the main thing is that the monopoly of Ticketmaster Live Nation has a total chokehold over the entire aspect of the industry. It's not just ticketing. It's the Live Nation is a

They control the venues, too. They own and operate. The venues, they are the promoters, they are the management of the artists. They control every possible aspect. I want to talk about the monopoly of it all. You alluded to it. Ticketmaster and Live Nation are the same company now, and they kind of have a monopoly on the touring industry. On a 101 level, explain what that monopoly looks like. Well, Live Nation Ticketmaster merged. And at the time, a Ticketmaster was solely a kind of ticketing agency. And, and, you know, And Live Nation was historically a artist management and promoter. And they saw that Live Nation was basically considering their own kind of ticketing world in order to compete with Ticketmaster.

And instead they just said, well, why don't we just drone forces? So you're talking about managing and developing artists as they play every stage of venue, the small, the middle, the large. You're talking about promoting the shows. You're talking about running the venues. You're talking about managing the artists. You're talking about cutting the artists into all these deals and making sure that they kind of have no choice but to cooperate. How could you bite the hand that feeds if there's four hands that are feeding you from the same arm? You know, like there's not a lot of options.

So then if there's an artist, there's a potential for this artist to be managed by Live Nation. for their tour to be run by Live Nation and Ticketmaster, for Live Nation Ticketmaster to own the venue, and for Live Nation Ticketmaster to own the sale of the tickets. That's exactly right. I mean, and even, you know, it's interesting. That feels crazy. It is crazy.

And it's interesting, too, because, like, even with Taylor Swift, the promoter of her tour actually wasn't Live Nation. It was AEG, which is the biggest competitor to Live Nation. and they had to work with Ticketmaster on selling the tickets for the show that they were promoting, their biggest rival, which they didn't want to do, in order for them to play the biggest arenas in the country,

which they have to, because it's Taylor Swift. And for them, I think this worked out quite well because it made Ticketmaster look bad, that whole situation where no one could get tickets, and they were attacking with bots and everything. And it kind of showed why a healthy, competitive environment would be better for consumers. Amy Klobuchar, a senator who sort of led a lot of these antitrust conversations, particularly in music, that's the legislation that she recently introduced, which would limit the length that ticketers could have exclusive contracts with venues.

So will that fix things, or is the big fix ultimately breaking up ticket master in Live Nation? There are a couple options. I mean, there is kind of a congressional route where you have legislation, so something like what Amy Klobuchar, are introduced. You could restrict the secondhand market in certain ways. There's certain things that you could do from a legislative perspective that can make a big difference. Or you could have what's going on in the Department of Justice where they're doing their own investigation, and that would lead to potentially, you know, antitrust breakup of Live Nation and Ticketmaster. But what is the likelihood of either of those things? I think congressionally, there's a decent

likelihood that you'll start seeing some legislation that might limit the power of, you know, Live Nation and Ticketmaster, but so far the only thing I've seen that seems like it has an immediate impact is when someone like Robert Smith says, you know what, cut it out. This is ridiculous. You know, we have control. But the breakup thing, it's hard to say, most people think that won't

happen because they've already had multiple looks. The Department of Justice has multiple looks at this merger and has allowed it to continue with certain restrictions, which, of course, the company is broken. But the tide has risen high enough that it might be the time. We do not know if the government will break up Ticketmaster and Live Nation. In the meantime, what can be done?

And what I'm really asking you is, in the meantime, could artists like Beyonce and Taylor Swift speak up for fans as much as the cure does? Absolutely they could. And I think it would be great if they did because certainly as much as there is a mess and as much as you want to, to call the music industry broken or whatever. It's not broken for Taylor Swift and Beyonce. And they have a lot of power and they have the ability as representatives of the industry to try to shape things and say, you know, maybe legally you aren't required to do this, but we don't like our fans paying a thousand dollars for a seat. There is one other thing. I will say, I talk to Kelifasana. He's a New Yorker staff writer when I wrote that story. He's great. Yeah. And he, one thing

he said to me when he's talking about, he's like, you know, maybe concert tickets are just undervalued until now. Maybe concerts are just worth more than we've been paying. And there's nothing better than a great concert. And if it's worth, whatever it's worth, that just might be the new reality that we live with. I will say, watching Beyonce float up into the sky in the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium on a metallic disco horse, maybe it's priceless. Maybe it's f-n-priceless. You'll remember it the rest of your life. Rest of my goddamn life.

More than even the Marvel movie that, you know, costs $25 or whatever. Exactly, exactly. That said, in the meantime, if we are asking artists to do more for their fans, Beyonce, I would be happy if you reimburse my airfare and hotel stay in London. You could do that for me. Get me up. We'll talk. We'll talk.

Thanks again to Nate Rogers and Kalin Allen. Intuit is hosted by me, Sam Sanders. The show is produced by Janay West, Travis Larchuk, Roby Grossman, Jelani Carter, and Takka Zen. Our fearless editor is Jordana Hochman. Our engineer is Daniel Turrick, and our music is composed by Breakmaster's cylinder. The executive producer of audio at Vox Media is Neshot Kerwa. Listeners, we are back next Friday with a brand new episode.

Till next time, go to TikTok. Search for the clips from the Beyonce concert, where all of her dancers are dancing to pure honey, and they're just doing, like, ballroom for 10 minutes straight. It's great. Love it. Go find it.