Switched on Pop - Newcomers: Porter Robinson

Episode Date: September 6, 2024

Porter Robinson has a unique relationship with being famous. With his new record SMILE! :D, the 32 year old producer and DJ steps front and center into the spotlight for the first time in his career, working through his thoughts on fame in the process — something he says he’s “addicted” to. The first track on the record, “Knock Yourself Out XD,” is a hook-laden radio pop hit destined to sit on a neon green iPod shuffle, filled with chiptuned synth textures and tongue-in-cheek lyrics about what it means to contend with nuclear levels of celebrity. Robinson’s voice is also front and center, unencumbered by the vocal manipulation and heavy production defining his two previous albums. “”Knock Yourself Out XD” was me indulging that fantasy of like, This is so not a Porter Robinson song. Everyone's gonna hate this,” he said. “But this is what seems really fun to me right now.” The rest of SMILE! :D juggles two truths about Robinson: his innate desire for a positive relationship with the culture that surrounds him, and his dark, introspective nature, highlighted on tracks with stark names like “Is There Really No Happiness?”. But “Knock Yourself Out XD” is deeply silly – filled with cheeky lyrics like the line “Bitch, I’m Taylor Swift.” It’s new territory for him, but Robinson’s inclinations are, always, to “burn everything down and start fresh.”  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switchdown Pop. I am producer Rianna Cruz. And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. And welcome back to the newcomers, our series, where we talk to and about artists with new music that you should be listening to. And today, Nate, I'm here to tell you about an artist that has been around for a bit, but is a newcomer in the sense that he is trying out a brand new sound. He broke out as a teenager into the EDM scene, signing with Scrillix's label when he was 18. He landed on Billboard's list of 21 under 21 in 2012, then spent the next decade putting out three widely acclaimed EDM albums.

But this year, he's pivoting in a big way. And with this new sound, he puts himself firmly in pop music through and through. That artist is Porter Robinson with his new. record, smile, and that smile in all caps with an exclamation point and a happy smiling emoticon. We love typography here, so good to know. Here's his song, cheerleader. This is a cool finale for this series, Rihanna. I mean, Porter Robinson is someone, when I hear their name, I think of these like bash your fist in the air, head banging, EDM builds and drops, electric daisy carnival, furry boots and glow sticks kind of vibe.

But with this track, as you said, I'm getting more of a pop smash sensibility. We've got these super singable, catchy melodies. We've got a proper chorus. We've got some counter melodies in the synth. I mean, the textures are still EDM, but the sound is pop. Right, right. That synth line is so massive. and nuts.

Very cool. Love it. And it's different from anything Porter Robinson has done before. I think you could break up his career into four distinct eras. First, his debut record Worlds in 2014 was that festival-filling, melodic EDM, glow-stick, music. Here's the song, Divinity, off of that record. That drop is seismic. that caused a tectonic shift when I heard that.

The way I could describe most of his music is massive. After Worlds, he put out my personal favorite project of his. It's a trans house electronic kind of Eurodance hybrid under the alias virtual self. Here's the track off of that, Ghost Voices. This is fun to listen to because I feel like it takes all these tropes of electronic dance music and kind of mashes them together. we've got another one of those world-conquering drops with that massive sound you were describing. But then there's also kind of this like shuffly housebeat going on.

We've got some vocal chops as well, kind of out of the world of hip-hop production. So yeah, this is a real blend of different types of electronic music and somehow it all works. And then in 2021, Porter put out his critically acclaimed album, Nurture, which starts to blend that signature, electronic sound with the structure and the melodies of pop. Kind of like putting his foot on the gas of pop music a little bit. Here's the song musician off of nurture. Okay, there is that pop sensibility kicking in. We've got this catchy chorus.

We've got a singable melody you can follow along to. The EDM touches are still there, but it's definitely more interested in, capturing your attention on the radio dial than getting you to go ham in a club. Right, but Porter's New Era is fully pressing down on the gas pedal and just speeding right ahead into pop superstardom. Edium wholly on this album is tossed to the side in favor of a simple songwriting practice and crowd-pleasing radio hits.

I think it's particularly evident on one of Smile singles, the song, Knock Your Sings, self-out X-D. Imagine an emoticon in your head. I'm still processing the emoticon thing. X-D is like a face, a laughing face, capital X, capital D. I think I understand. Okay, now that's out of the way. This track is kind of tender.

It's giving me a little bit of like Owl City vibes, maybe. Ooh, so true, so true. Very fireflies coated. Very fireflies coated, very sensitive, very kind of beautiful in this way, even though it's still got that massive sound pulsing underneath. Yeah, I feel like this is Porter Robinson shedding his Electric Daisy Carnival persona and leaning into full-fledged pop stardom. Yeah, and you can even hear his voice clearer on this song and this album than previously in any of his other work. though there's inklings of said previous work in what he's doing here, and that's one of the things that I talk about with him.

But before we get into all of that, I did want to start by asking Porter about this line and knock yourself out, which I think you're going to get a kick out of me. Don't know my schedule on the fifth. I don't know my schedule on the fifth, bitch. I'm Taylor Swift. That's funny. It's like a decade ago, the chain smokers could say,

I want to be Kanye West today. It's like I want to be Taylor Swift. That is the paragon of success. And what a fun, unexpected line. I definitely need to know more about where this came from. So what do you think? Should we flip it over to you and Porter now and get more context on this Swiftian reference here?

Yeah, I'll let him take it away. And you'll find that this deeply silly line has much more thought than you could ever imagine. Nice. I'm Porter Robinson. I would most broadly describe myself as just a musician. Right now, I'm making, I would call it songwriting, pop, songwriting. Yeah. So let's start with a simple question. I'm sure you've gotten this a lot. I've been thinking about it for a few weeks. Bitch, I'm Taylor Swift. What does that mean to you? So I'm like a, I'm like a red and 1989 person. Like, I really like her most saccharin. Where that's saccharin actually has a negative valence to it. I don't like that. I really like her. Like I have such a musical sweet tooth. I love big, cute hooks and stuff like that. And I think that comes through in my music.

And that's my favorite work from her. But what that meant to me was I was kind of writing this album, despite being somebody of kind of middling fame about the pressures that I was feeling and the desire to both be consumed by it, but also to escape it. And at the same time, I was taking this approach towards songwriting where I was really embracing musical basics. I was really embracing cliche. So a lot of like chord progressions or musical moves that I had forbidden myself from using in the past because they were like, you'll hear people joke about four chord songs in music discourse a lot. And I had kind of written those off

for myself. And I embraced all those things on this album. And so there was a lot of very Taylor Swifty moves that I was making in my melodies, my chords. And I had just been thinking about her a lot. Like it would actually be a genuine infrastructure problem for her to take a normal flight, you know, like I was, I was reflecting on that. I was like, she has a degree of fame that's actually inconceivable to most people. And I think that she sort of takes a lot of flack for talking about those things. And I was talking about them as well. So I was thinking about her a lot. Like, I see parts of myself and her for better, for worse. And also, you know what the bigger thing was there? I was sitting down with an acoustic.

guitar on my childhood bed because I wrote this album at my parents' house and learning to play the guitar for the first time, trying to write songs with it for the first time. The words bitch time Taylor Swift came to my mind and I thought, this is so stupid, but then I couldn't get away from it. It was like anything I tried to replace it with just felt weaker and it felt less memorable and less like it was going to be screamed, you know? I was really chasing that feeling of something that would have that bigness and that catharsis and that shamelessness, you know? That's bitch I'm Taylor Swift. What better way to convey the like level of fame you're grappling with on the record than invoking the most famous person in the world?

That's definitely what was on my mind. It was like the more I keep talking about somebody coming up and saying hi to me in the airport, the more I was thinking about Taylor. I was like, am I going to be compared to her in a really unflattering way? And my instinct on this album was like, anything I'm scared of being said, I'm just going to say it. I think I'm a person who feels a huge amount of self-consciousness and shame and all the above. And I started off trying to play this unashamed rock star character. And I think what ultimately ended up happening was it kind of crumbled as I was writing the music. And I started telling the truth more and saying how I was really feeling.

But it was able to tap into it for a split second. You know, it felt nice. Not Yourself Out starts off the record. So was that your intention of putting it first, like putting this image out there, that this is like what I am wrestling with on this record? I was going to say it was the first song that made the album, but actually the song, Easier to Love You, which is a bit of a ballad, started off as like a dance pop track right in the aftermath of the previous record, Nurture.

But Knock Yourself out was the sort of vision board statement. It was the thing that I made when I was just feeling the most like wanting to, just burn it all down a little bit and wanting to start over and wanting to disappear and all the above. What kind of song would I make if I felt no fear? If I felt like there was no consequences, right? Like I talk about this a lot on the song Russian Roulette, which is there's like an economy around me now. There's like a bunch of people who I have on a salary and stuff like that. And my way of approaching music, every single album has been like burn everything down and start fresh.

I want to go somewhere new. I want to be standing in new creative fertile ground because that's the end. only thing that makes me feel that like vitality to like I got to make something new. Like I got to make something that's like I want to be somewhere else, you know? And Russian roulette was me reflecting on how that's harder than ever now because there's a lot of people that I love that are kind of in my world and are relying on me and like it matters now if my shit were to implode tomorrow. And I don't like that feeling to be honest about like, yeah, knock yourself out was me

indulging that fantasy of like, this is so not a Porter Robinson song. That's how I was seeing it. When I first made it, I was like, this is so not a Porter Robinson song. Everyone's going to hate this. But this is what seems really fun to me right now when I'm toying with this idea of burning it all down.

And I remember when I first posted, I was kind of like taking the Jojo Siwa school of music promotion because I posted the most like dragable possible clip of that song and just kind of like let the like quote retweets, Rollin for 48-hour cycle. I, like, posted the bitch of Taylor Swift part. And that was some interesting exposure of therapy for me. I used to live in fear of, like, getting dragged.

And then I was like, well, what if I thought about this as, like, a way of oiling the machine and turning eyeballs and stuff like that? And that fear of shame or that fear of being hated is a bit of a debuff for a musician. And I think that, like, for example, when Doja Cat was saying, like, I don't love my fans and her fan accounts were imploding en masse. I was like, man, her apparent fearlessness seems to really be serving her here. That's why people love Dojika, because she talks so bluntly about her work and her career and her fans.

Like, I think people connect with that in a way. Right, right. It doesn't feel like it's been media trained. It doesn't feel like it's been, like, rehearsed or like a TikTok team was like looking over it and being like, hey, like, this is the optimal whatever. So I wanted to tap into that energy, but I think there's this thing of grappling against my own nature. And I think my own nature is that I am probably more on the side of introspective and thoughtful and careful and conscientious. But I wanted to see what it felt like to throw that away a little bit and be a little more reckless.

Well, speaking of being thoughtful, like I was really taken aback by a lot of the internal modes of thinking on this record, like the end of Russian roulette, where they're There's the text, the speech voice, talking about how sonic clichés are beautiful. The kick Roman bass suggests the song is coming to a close. That's the format we're used to. Clches like this are beautiful because they reflect us when we are beautiful. Take, for example, this chord progression. The first time I heard that, I kind of just sat back and was like, wow, can you talk about that a little bit more? How do you see that manifest in your work?

I'm glad that resonated with you. So like I said earlier, I was embracing cliche on this album. I wanted to use, I was using the guitar for the first time, which is like the ultimate, in my view, it's the ultimate songwriter's tool. And I only learned like three or four chord shapes. Like I didn't learn anything advanced, but it was enough for me to kind of feel a song emerge.

On the left hand, I had the music, and on the right hand I had the drums, the rhythm. And in that, I could imagine the rest, you know? but what that meant was that I was playing fairly basic stuff on the guitar. And in the production, too, I was like, I don't want to be at all head-ass. Like, I wanted to get back to the things that are, like, these things that seem to transcend context, that must be a reflection of something deep inside of us. And I really do believe that human beings are beautiful and worthwhile and amazing.

And so anything that seems to strike a chord with almost everybody in a positive way, there's a beauty in that, you know, I don't think that should be condemned. Okay, here's a great example. So I'm sure you've seen the videos of the, of babies being shown, the meow version of what was I made for by Billy Eilish. Yeah. Meow, meow, meow. And they're just, like, moved to tears without any lyrical context,

without any, it's like how babies will instinctually see a snake and react in an Aversive way, you know? I just think it's fascinating and it's beautiful. And I think like some parts of our nature can become invisible to us because we're so close to our nature. I wanted to basically wear this like embrace of cliche and no embarrassment, no shame. It's actually something that's beautiful and worthwhile. And I think it's something that a lot of the hyperpop world has done in a roundabout way

before me. Like Gex, for example, they, I feel like approached this in a way where. with perhaps a twinge more irony, they were, like, visiting, like, actually not just the most cliched things, but, like, some of the most reviled genres, like ska. Totally. And I guess one of my favorite things in the world is finding something new to love or something new to appreciate. Like, dude, we're all going to die.

Like, I think it's, like, the more things you can love while you're alive, the better. And so if anything can open my mind in a new way and make me love something, I find that just to be ridiculously valuable. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness.

I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay. Ready? Ready. Do not sugarcoat something for me. No, no. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being unapologetic in their pursuits.

I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. Well, I feel like it's fascinating that, you know, on Smile, you're pursuing more traditional songwriting approach. when the record is contending largely with your relationship with fame. Like, you know, my first thought would be the natural progression to be like to step backwards, you know, into more abstract genres, abstract sounds. If, you know, the natural reaction to fame is to be uncomfortable by it. So what made you pursue this kind of full pop pivot?

Well, there's two things because like one, I'm reckoning with downsides of fame, but I'm also addicted to it. And that's just the reality is it's like, I feel like that's something that people don't want to say, but it is true in the same way that I'm addicted to like my phone or addicted to caffeine or League of Legends or the whole nine. Like that is insanely addictive. And it's something I would miss if it went away

and it would be hard for me to deal with if it went away. And I feel like I was in denial about that in public ways for so, so, so long, but it is true. So that's one thing is I think that like I'm, to some extent, I was still pursuing success. But I think the much larger part of it is that my taste just changes over time. And like I said, I'm always looking for something new to love. And one of the things that was really starting to hit for me on this record was the rock music of the 2000s.

Like, I never had really listened to The Killers before, for example. I'd never really listened to, like, cold play. I'd never listened to Radiohead or Nirvana. Like I was always such an electronic music person. I hadn't gone deep on these things. And another weird micro thing that kind of hit me really hard was listening to the like warped tour era scene, MySpace, emo bands for the first time.

I was like, wow, this stuff is really, really, really, like there's so much value in it. It was like I fell in love with this stuff through a lens that was not a nostalgic lens because I didn't grow up with it. I was only listening to electronic music. And like, there was just a new place that my taste had gone. And I was like, I want to get as close to the feelings

that this music gives me as I possibly can. And my way of doing that is to try to embody it and to live it. Like when I love music or any idea or aesthetic, I just like I feel like I need to drown in it. Like I need to be so immersed in it that it's all I can feel. And when something inspires me to do that, like it's like, I will know life it until I feel like I'm living it. And so for me, that was just like a lot of like rock and pop. I was like, I want to know what it feels like to make something in this genre that's great. Even if I wanted to alienate my fans deliberately, the creativity shows me the path when I'm in the studio.

Like when I'm making something, five options will emerge in front of me and one of them lights me on fire. I don't really have much say in that. You know, like I'll strum a certain chord and it'll hit me in a certain way and it just screams at me. It's like, it almost wouldn't have even mattered if I was like, I want to make something that all my fans are going to hate because I think my only choice in the studio is to go down the path that just makes me fall in love. But it's funny. This album has alienated a lot of my fans and the EDM fans are not happy. But it's every, every project I've ever done feels to me like it's kind of underappreciated in its time and then people tell me to return to it three years later. So I'm just very used to it at this

point. Nurture and virtual self and worlds, all of them at the time were met with ho-hum reactions or the thing that I did previously was better, that I need to go back to what I was doing before. Why did I change? And at this point, it's just like, that's the most expected thing in the world. Well, like the reverse of it, though, is that, like, I do hear inklings of your previous projects in Smile. I'm a big fan of Virtual Self.

I saw the shows, like, I was really locked into that one. That's awesome. That's my favorite project of yours. You know, they're all good. Oh, awesome. I love Virtual Self. And when I was listening to Russian Roulette, there's like that drop towards the end.

And I was like, oh wow, this is reminding me of that EP, of that project. I was wondering how do you see your previous work come through on an album like smile? That section reminds me of virtual self too. It also reminds me of the music that I was making when I was 15. I had my first alias was ECHO-Rath or ECHO-Rath. I don't even know how to pronounce it, but it was Eurodance, hands-up music, like similar to Bass Hunter, Cascata, anything Nykohl. or that was like what I was making when I was a teenager.

In a way, the end of Russian roulette, since I'm talking about life and death and wanting to see my family one more time and wanting to play my songs one more time, I wanted to sort of harken back to the very first musical output I ever had. And as far as how my previous projects are reflected through my music,

I think this is weird. I kind of see knock yourself out as having some world's DNA, and I don't know if other people see, that besides me. But I think it's the fact that it's like every sound is as big as it can be and it opens with this really clear hook. Like it reminds me of the song, Divinity from Worlds in a weird way, even though the attitude and the lyrics are so different. Like something about that song makes me think about worlds. No one sees that but me. Smile is a record that literally

in the title, it's all caps, exclamation point, happy emoticon, you know, it's positing itself as this reckless happy record, frankly, and has a lot of really contemplative heavy themes. How did you conceptualize that juxtaposition that it come through as you were making the songs in the studio because it took a pivot in the middle of the songwriting process? You did take a pivot in the middle of the songwriting process. There was the record that I wanted to make, which was this reckless, happy, fun album that was shameless and a nonstop party. I was like I wanted to make Porter Robinson as fun as it could be.

I really wanted it to be fun. I felt like that it was missing from nurture in some ways. There was the album that I was trying to make and then the album that actually emerged. I've blamed the guitar for this several times. Picking up the guitar, my emo side flowed really effortlessly. Something about even the posture of it, just the feeling of holding a guitar makes me feel dramatic and it makes me feel like a poet it makes me feel like the things I'm saying have weight and meaning and so yeah I think all the the somber contemplative

introspective stuff was like I kept writing songs like that and I was like okay yeah there'll be one or two of these on the record but ultimately ended up being more like half of it. But the you know the title smile it's not a purely positive thing like somebody telling you to smile can be like a unwanted cat call, you know, like somebody telling you to smile is actually really unpleasant and it has an exclamation point at the end of it. It's like this like demand in a way. Yeah, it's like partially a reflection on all of the teeth related lyrics that are on the album and it's partially a reflection of how I felt in the years leading up to smile where I was trying so damn hard to be like somebody worth, like, somebody worth,

looking up to, I guess, and somebody that people thought was a good person and somebody who was worthy of admiration and respect and all of the above, like, I think I kind of, like, made myself into a caricature at times with nurture, where people started really putting me up on a pedestal and acting like I'm starting to think that I had maybe more answers than I did. That was one of the things that I really wanted to shed. I was starting to get really scared of the caricature that I had created of myself. And that's why the album looks the way it does, is this, like, perfect little cartoon guy that's getting squeezed to death is what it looks like. And I was like, I saw myself in that. So I was desperate, I think, to show some uglier sides of myself. You know, I have a kind of a

silly question, right? Hit me. The first single you released was cheerleader. And to this day, I am hypnotized by that opening synth lead. Can you just talk a little bit about like, what is it? How did you decide on that specific sound? Like, talk to me. Because I've literally tried to sit and parse what you're doing in the production to make it sound like that because it really just blows me away. It's this big texture. Thank you. That's amazing. Well, I was, that day, I had taken a long drive to a coffee shop and I was listening to a band called The Teenagers. And they were like an XL recordings French band that was kind of doing like satirical American high school pop. And it's really, in my opinion, it's fairly half-baked. It's like pretty, pretty.

jokey. But I was like, there's something to this that's like strangely beautiful. And I came home and I was like, I want to write something that has that kind of adolescent feeling to it. And so I like lay down the drums. I laid down like a bass line. I was like, I think this would really benefit from a synth hook. And that was in this time period where I was like, I want everything to be as loud and

as bright and as huge as possible. I was pushing off of nurture. I was like, I want this to be like a break the windows kind of sound. And I modeled it off of a lot of the synth lines you would hear in Eurodance, like German hands-up music that I grew up making, these really fat, brash, noisy super saws. And I even want, like, there's a little bit of like, technically, like a slightly wrong note in there as well. Like the synth keeps like bending and it's like pulling out of pitch. It's like, bha-oh-uh-that is like not really in key technically.

It almost sounds to me like a synth worm that's like, thrashing and is like really unstable. I just wanted something that sounded like it was so big it was going to be breaking apart. So, I mean, I could further break down the sound design, but that's going to be on my Patreon for but yeah, I mean, cheerleader was like, it was one of those moments in the studio where I knew, like I knew I really had something. There's something that happens in the studio. It's like one out of every 700 attempts of writing a new song, something will hit me and I will go,

oh my fucking God. Like it feels like a nuke just went off in front of me. I feel like a song that that actually does kind of hit, like cheerleader requires not just one breakthrough, but like six. Like I remember writing the verse for cheerleader and feeling like, oh my God, like I got two things now. I have this intro hook that's so good and I have this verse that feels like really

dancey and really youthful. And then I wrote the pre-chorus and I was like, oh my God, this is so great. Where is this going? Like having three really great sections, but not having a chorus. Like I'm sure you can imagine how terrifying that is because it's like,

now I'm building some kind of contraption or some kind of machine where all the weight is being put on this one point, which is this course that I have not yet written. And it's like, if I don't get this thing, all this other good stuff I just made is going to buckle. My God, I hope I can see this through and make it awesome. So it's like just this feeling of being certain. Once I made a certain sound, I was like, this is going past the finish line 100%. Like no matter what happens, like I cannot die until this thing comes out. I love that feeling.

I love that feeling. Making music is something that scares me headlessly. Just because I care so fucking much and I want it to be as great as I know it can be. It's like, I love it. Like I, dude, this is such a,

this is going to sound like a like Kanye statement and not the type of Kanye statement you might be thinking, so don't worry. We can air this. I really do wish that God could come down from heaven and just play me what my next project will sound like. I think it would give me some clarity actually

to hear my own music without context. I think I would really like it probably. Maybe not. Maybe I'd be like, you overthought this shit, bro. I don't know. But I do dream about that sometimes. I wish I could hear the next thing I'm going to make. Switched on Pop is produced by Rihanna Cruz.

We are edited by Art Chung. This episode was engineered by Bill Lance. Iris Gottlieb makes our illustrations, and Nishat Kurwa is our executive producer. We're a production of the Vox Media Podcast. podcast network and Vulture. Vulture in turn is a part of New York MAG, and you can subscribe with a special link.

It's nymag.com slash pod. You could find those on social media at Switched on Pop. And, you know, we're done with this series of newcomers, but there will be more in the future. So tell us. I'm kind of sad, Rihanna, that this little trilogy is coming to an end. I know, I know. But hopefully there'll be more in the future.

So let us know on social media, who you want to see in a newcomer's interview. We'll be back next week with our regularly scheduled Tuesday programming. Rian, I think we need to talk about a much-beloved band that is reuniting after a 15-year hiatus. Oasis? Ding, ding, ding, that's the one. Oh, incredible. That's the one.

We're going to do a deep dive into the Oasis catalog to help you find out if it's worth a thousand pounds in a flight to Cardiff to see the Gallagher brothers on stage again. And until then... Don't look back in anger. Thanks for listening. Attention, Spotify. Has arrived the new Good Girl Jasmine Absolute of Caroline Herrera, a fragrance intense with character gourmet and addictive.

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