Switched on Pop - Nicki Minaj's Roman Empire

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

Nicki Minaj is one of the most unique rappers of all time. She’s given us numerous iconic guest verses from “Monster” to “Flawless (Remix),” everlasting hits like “Super Bass” and “Starships,” and legions of loyal fans in the Barbz. She’s also given us over twenty alter-egos in the course of her career. However, no alter-ego of hers has been more impactful than Roman. The voice at the center of Nicki’s most unhinged music, the “Roman” persona serves a conduit for Nicki to put forward a high level of theatricality and character work in her music, from beats to bars. And to understand Nicki, you need to understand Roman.  This episode of Switched on Pop, producer Reanna Cruz takes us on a journey through the history of Roman, on the heels of Nicki Minaj’s latest record, Pink Friday 2.  Sign up for the Switched On Pop Newsletter Songs Discussed: Nicki Minaj – Chun-Li Nicki Minaj – Red Ruby Da Sleeze Nicki Minaj – Itty Bitty Piggy Kanye West, Nicki Minaj, Jay-Z, Rick Ross, Bon Iver – Monster Nicki Minaj – Roman In Moscow Nicki Minaj – Pound the Alarm Nicki Minaj – Starships Ludacris, Nicki Minaj – My Chick Bad Nicki Minaj, PTAF – Boss A** B**** (with PTAF) – Remix Nicki Minaj, Eminem – Roman's Revenge Nicki Minaj – Come On A Cone Nicki Minaj – Beez In The Trap Nicki Minaj – Roman Holiday Eminem – The Way I Am Eminem – My Name Is Lil' Kim – Queen B**** Nicki Minaj, Drake, Lil Wayne – Truffle Butter Trey Songz, Nicki Minaj – Bottoms Up (feat. Nicki Minaj) Nicki Minaj – Barbie Dreams Nicki Minaj – Super Freaky Girl – Roman Remix Nicki Minaj – My Life Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switch on Pop. I'm producer Rihanna Cruz. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. All right, Charlie, Nate, you guys might know Nikki Minaj, yes? Yes, yes. Cool. How familiar are you guys, though, with the Nicki Minaj Cinematic Universe? I probably end somewhere around SuperBase, sadly.

Oh, not a barb. Not a barb, I see. Not a barb, but no one ever invited me in. I similarly, I feel like I'm familiar with some of her big hits. I will never forget when I first heard her guest verse on Monster by Kanye West. But no, I don't feel like I do know as much about the Nicki Cinematic as I should, given that she's probably one of the most influential emceesies. of the last 20 years. She is.

I mean, at least, I would say so. In the NMCU, you know, we have such characters as Chunli. They need rappers like me. They need rappers like me. So they can get on their fucking keyboards and make me the bad guy, Chung Lee. There's also Red Ruby and Duslees,

both mentioned on the song Red Ruby Deslis. Only on them seize if it's breeze. Red Ruby the sleaze. And these, one to be chunleys anyway, yeh out. Who the fuck told bitches they was me now? I know these bitches were- And these, my friends, are just the tip of the iceberg in the NMCU. Nikki Minaj has over 20 alter egos most carefully documented on the

Nikki Minaj fandom Wiki and in songs of hers like Itty Bitty Piggy. I'm Nikki Minaj, Nicki Lewinsky, Nikki the Ninja, Nikki the Boys. Nikki didn't have a juke of Barbie. Like, I mean, I don't even know why you girls bother at this point. But perhaps the most outspoken and famous alter ego of hers is none other than Roman. What up? He's mean. He's angry and he's vicious.

Saying Roman is here to stay. So I take it you guys aren't familiar with Roman. No, negative. But I also feel like unless I have gone and really. engage past the singles and the endless features that she's done. I feel like I wouldn't, I wouldn't have entered this universe. And now I'm realizing that there is an incredible amount of depth to go into, to understand her entire musical universe. Well, Charlie, whether you realize it or not, though, Roman has been featured on some of Nikki's biggest hits in the early years

of her career, songs that you have heard and maybe even talked about on the show. Romans featured on a song like Pound the Alarm. Yep. And you might be thinking, Shirley Roman isn't on Star ships. Well, I'm here to tell you that he is. Nikki's first big smash.

Let's go to the beach, each, let's go get a wave. They say what they're going to say. Have a drink, clink, found a bud light. Bad bitches like me. It's hard to come by the patron. And that vocal affectation is signature, Roman. So Roman was there. whole time. Roman was under our noses this entire time. And as Nikki has released her latest

album, Pink Friday 2, a follow-up to her debut, Pink Friday, it's time to explore the career of Nikki Minaj through the implementation and use of Roman, one of her characters in the an MCU that gives Nikki Minaj her sauce, so to speak. It's what makes her music fun. It's what makes her music exciting and kind of forces her in the conversation of one of the best rappers of all time. So I'm here to be your tour guide into Gag City and take you to explore who really is Roman. And just to get this out of the way, Nikki Minaj does not historically have great politics. And And this character, Roman, is actually a pretty good example of that because Roman's full name is Roman Zelansky. Like perhaps a takeoff on the disgraced film director Roman Polanski?

Yeah. And it's tough because it's spelled exactly the same way, just swapping a Z for the P. Nikki has addressed this. Here's the line from the song, Stupid Ho. Good to know. I don't know. It still kind of plays out as a bad tasteless joke to me. But Nikki Minaj is in fact one of the biggest female rappers of all time, and Roman has evolved to become a really interesting facet of her rapping.

So it would be remiss not to explore this character. Let me take you on a journey through the story of Roman. In Nikki Minaj's documentary My Time Now, Nikki says that Roman is an alternate personality. He was originally female, fun fact, and described as a twin sister, but soon into his implementation, Roman is retconned to be male. He's a boy, assumedly British, that lives inside of Nikki, and he's mean and violent and rude and rebellious and also a homosexual. Roman has a mother, Martha. This will become important later. She appears in multiple Nikki songs as well, and they function.

kind of as a straight man and comedic foiled duo, with Martha making appearances through the Nicki Minaj canon the same way that Chun Li has, the same way that Roman has. Martha has tried to have Roman exercised. Roman fights an evil demon called nemesis, et cetera, et cetera. There's lots of lore in there. The core idea here is that Roman in all of his personality traits

serves as a conduit for Nikki to be more outspoken, crazier and more brash than usual. Is it maybe a cop-out for when she acts a little too wacky, a little too crazy? Maybe. But Nikki has released some of her most interesting music under the sort of alter ego of Roman. So since we've introduced his character and his origin story, I want to talk about his key appearances. So we get to know him better. And just to understand, how do we know when we're hearing Roman?

Does she always announce the Roman character, or is there a particular voice that she does to indicate him? We'll get into that. The first appearance of Roman is on Nikki's feature on Ludacris's song My Chick Bad. She introduces a character on a feature. Okay, this is cool. Now we'll these bitches want to try and be my bestie, but I take a left and lead them hanging like a test. Trash town to him then I put up and I hefty. Running down a court I'm dunking on on Lisa last sleep.

It's going down. Basement. Friday to 13. Guess who's playing chasing? Tuck yourself in. You better hold on to your teddy. It's nightmare on Elmstreet. And guess who's buying Freddy?

So immediately, right? We have no explicit references to Roman in the beginning of this verse. But as you asked Charlie, we're seeing signifiers that will notify his presence on future Nikki hits. Going lyrical. We have a penchant for crude insults. You know, the second. line that she says in this verse is, I take a left and leave them hang in like a testy, you know, crude, kind of childish, you know, puberty humor.

Yeah, it's like middle school on the bus. Right, exactly. It's like if you're having a rap battle at recess, type 5. Which makes sense because Roman is, you know, a boy, as Nikki Minaj says, you know, like a younger boy where his mother still needs to come in and scold him type B, you know. So we're thinking like maybe 13 or 4th like bar mitzvah age. Exactly. Exactly.

Okay. I got you. I got you. Just hitting puberty. So it's the lyrical content, but more importantly, it's this vocal affectation she uses. And it's on display, particularly in these two lines. Is it the voice when she almost kind of goes like into her sinus more? It's like well up here.

Like lo, lo, lo, lo, lo, lo, lo, lo. which is really different than her like twang that she sometimes does. Exactly. So Nikki Minaj is from New York, right? And she has a very heavy New York accent. Yeah. Roman, in contrast, is from London. So she's probably trying to do this weird London accent, which is not good.

But it kind of morphs into this different voice that she uses, where it's pushing your vocal chord. past the kind of reasonable breath point, right? Like, it's like you're rapping until you're like nearly out of breath. And then it's like you're forcing your chest to kind of cave in as you're like giving your all to the line, right? Because when she's saying it, it's like, nightmare on Elm Street and guess who's playing Friday? You know, it's different than the way Nikki Minaj is rapping at this time, like on her

mixtape, Be Me Up Scotty. A song like her boss-ass bitch remix, she's using a heavy New York accent. accent, and there's kind of like a lackadaisical approach to the rhymes that becomes defining of her early tracks. I said, rule number one to be a boss-ass bitch. Never let a clown nigger try to play you. If he play you, then rule number two, fuck his best friends and make him yes men. And get a dick, yeah, pure New York accent. Boss, I'm a boss. It's much different than like the almost goofy approach that she takes when she's embodying Roman. distinguishing the character from the regular or classic presentation of Nikki Minaj as a rapper. There's two distinct ways that she's rapping around this time where you have this heavy Queen's accent,

you know, the New York, like boss, but you also have Roman where she's doing a voice. It's different. So going into the music that Nikki Minaj has released solo, Pink Friday, her debut album, and of course, the record that catapulted her to stardom comes out in 2010. The second track on the record is called Roman's Revenge, and it's a track that stands in stark contrast to the more bubbly, melody-focused songs on the album, like Moment for Life and Super Bass.

It functions as kind of a thesis of sorts for Roman. So let's take a listen. So right off the bat, right, it starts with this deep 808 thump, And then it's followed by kind of extraterrestrial sounding synthesizers, as though something is like being beamed in from space. And then the violins come in as though they're scoring this kind of intergalactic space scene. I am not Jasmine, I am Aladdin. So far ahead these bumps is lagging. See me in that new thing, bumps is gagging.

I'm starting to feel like a dungeon dragon. Ra, raw, like a dungeon dragon. I'm starting to feel like a dungeon. Wow, that is some dexterous rapping. A reference to Tribe called Quest's track scenario, Bust the Buster Rhymes verse in that Ra, Ra, like a Dungeon Dragon. I know that one. I got that.

I know that reference. Does she kind of like slip into Roman as this goes on? I felt like there was a moment where I was like, oh, now that you primed me to hear this voice, I was like, oh, wait, there's. I heard it sort of like emerging as the flow. went on. Right, right. Because she starts, you know, I am not Jasmine, I am Aladdin. She's kind of in her regular cadence. And then when she gets to the line, see me in that new thing, bums is gagging.

That's when she's starting to get into the Roman voice because it's not, see me in that new thing, bums is gagging. It's, see me in that new thing, bums is gagging. I am not Jasmine, I am Aladdin. So far ahead, these bums is lagging. See me in that new thing, bums is gagging. I'm starting to feel like a That's the Roman in her, right? And the song, and these lines in the song, carry like a more primal tone to it. And she kind of brings out a vibrato almost in these lines when she's saying dungeon dragon. You know, she's like, rah, raw, like a dungeon dragon, you know. Right.

I think what makes Roman so commanding in his songs, because I love this song personally. I love the other Roman songs that we're going to get into. there's an urgency to the way that he wraps where it's kind of like you're in your chair. You know when you're like playing video games, maybe you guys, I don't know if you don't play video games, but there's that moment in a video game, right, where you're playing and you're leaning back and then like shit gets real so you like lean forward, you know, and you're like, oh, I got to lock in. That's how I feel when listening to Nikki Minaj, particularly on these Roman songs.

There's something so specific about how she locks in as Roman. that kind of flips a switch in my brain, and it's like, oh, shit, just got serious. I love that analogy. I haven't played video games in a minute, but I do know that feeling you're describing Rihanna, and I feel it too. There's this intensification that happens when she slips into that Roman persona. It's that vocal timbre moving up into the nose we were talking about. It's the way she kind of puts this like a little bit more swing into the rhythm of it,

and it's like, yeah, da, da, and you're like, whoa. And all of a sudden, you're just locked into it. And it always seems like it's cresting up to some point of sort of like explosion. So you're on the edge of your seat. Like where is this going? Right. Her songs as Roman have this extended crescendo where that's why it feels like you have to sit up, you know, because it feels like it's going to explode.

There's really no release in these songs where she's rapping the whole time as Roman. It just goes up, up, up. And then the song ends and you need more Roman. It's like the equivalent of the shepherd tone. the musical trick where a pitch seems to ascend forever. Nerd. Sorry. Excuse me.

Bringing it back to stuff that's cool and everybody knows. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm sorry. That's too mean. That's too mean. I love the shepherd tone. Big fan of it. It's fair.

It's fair. It's fair. Maybe Nicky Minaj, though, also noticed what you guys are mentioning, right? Like, there's a constant crescendo. And she thought. maybe what I need to do is really lean into Roman. So the real hallmark of Roman's artistry comes on her second album released two years later called Pink Friday, Roman Reloaded. And it's reissue Pink Friday, Roman Reloaded, the re-up.

Talk about upping the ante on every single title. And these records could be considered, in my opinion, a character study where Nikki Minaj is actress, exploring the limits of Roman as a character's form through immersion into sheer pop maximalism. Most of the Roman songs have beats that are similar to Roman's revenge, the intensity that we heard on that song. There's tracks like Come on a Cone. Excuse me. Bees in the Trap. And a personal favorite, Hovelane. I also noticed that these beats are pretty hawed. As, as Roman might say, like, they are pretty minimal. They're, like, very bass and drum heavy.

Mm-hmm. I feel like when she's adopting this persona, she's also gravitating towards these beasts that have a little bit more edge and oomph and power to support that character. And almost, like, annoying, repeating synthesizers. They're grading. Right. I like them.

But they're definitely, like, they're poking at you. Like, pay attention to me. Right. I mean, I know myself and, you know, other. music journalists have called what Nikki Minaj is doing on Roman Reloaded proto hyperpop, where it's annoying trying to make you pay attention very digital, very attention-grabbing. But speaking of attention-grabbing, there's one song in particular that shines a little brighter than the rest on this record. And it's, in my opinion, the record's centerpiece.

It's a little ditty called Roman Holiday. Roman take a short vacation Roman you'll be okay You need to know your station Roman some alterations on your clothes and your brain Is that Audrey Hepburn on the mic? Close it's Martha

Oh that's Martha okay Okay Wow yeah It's getting some real like Roll doll Matilda vibes there And then that beat switch and that, oh my God, this is a track for the ages. Right. So right from the get-go, we have Nikki doing the voice of Martha, Roman's mother,

and already there's storytelling. The chorus, you know, take your medication, Roman, it'll be okay. And as she's saying that, we have short, punchy synth stabs that are the same notes as the vocals evoking a very simplistic and childlike feel. It's like you're seeing Martha tell Roman this from the eyes of Roman, from the eyes of a child. And then the synths drop out, the drums switch to this primal rattling drum,

which shifts us from the things happening around Roman to Roman's internal monologue. There's deep storytelling going on here just through Nikki's timbre and the beat. You don't want a round three you to suffer twice. Worship the queen in your micah past. Keep a real least bitch is cutting wipe my ass. Anyway, stylist, go get Bogari.

I am the ultimate Zengali. You bitches can't even spell that. You host... This first contains one of my favorite Nicki Minaj lines, by the way, which is I am the ultimate Spengali. You bitches can't even spell that. That's perfect. That's great.

Lots of gems in here. Lots of gems. I mean, this track is blowing my mind. And it's also such a crystalline example. of why I've always had so much reverence for Nikki as a rapper. It's like the precision of her flow is like Mozartian. Everything is just in its right place. The way she hits the punchlines and the rhymes,

the way she articulates everything with such clarity, even when she's doing these like really verbose and multisyllabic words, the way she varies her rhythmic flow. There's just like so much going on in any stanza of a Nikki Minaj lyric. And I feel like with Roman, that's even amplified to the nth degree. Nikki loves using puns in her wraps. And you could hear it here when she's like, Youho's buggin, repel that.

That's something that's present in a lot of Nikki Minaj's music. She loves a punchline. And when she wraps as Roman, those punchlines are, there, but it's more deft wordplay. Do you get that, do you get that, Charlie? I, no. No, I missed that. Charlie, it's just staring, staring blankly ahead.

You give us that line once more. You host Buggin, repel that? So, wait, am I repelling down like that? I get it. I'm just messing with you. Do you? Oh, you do get it. Yes, yeah.

Bugin. Bug repellent. Yes, I used to lead wilderness trips in the woods of Maine. I know. I was just going to say you're such an outdoorsman. I was like,

why is he not registering this? I don't believe in Bugra Palladin. I am an anti-Diet person. I tried to use just long-sleeve clothing. Spoken like a true New Englander. Citronella, yeah. Citronella is discussed. Citonella will ruin a good meal.

If you're like everyone's like, let's sit outside and we'll just put a citronella candle on. And you're like, how am I going to enjoy my food when it smells like this? hell, it's gross. But the rap is great. Charlie's not into Al Fresco dining. He's red-pilling us on

bug spray right now. Is this the kind of unsavory opinion that Nikki Minaj would have? Like, don't wear bug repellent, which in reality, like, you know, protect yourself from mind disease. Like, you should definitely wear a deed if you're going, hiking in the woods. Like, please. Right. Absolutely.

I heard bug repellent makes your testicles swell to the size of a grapefruit. I mean, that's, which, which To be honest, is like part of the reason why I think I've never turned towards her music is like these, these takes on anti-vax stances that she's held, just, you know, being broadly very highly opinionated about very controversial things. And now I'm also like kind of questioning all of it.

Where is the boundary between Nikki and Roman and all the other alter egos? Who am I actually hearing from? The over 20 alter egos that populate her life and music. Unfortunately, I think the character espousing anti-Vax sentiments and defending sex offenders is Nikki Minaj herself. But I feel like if we still want to enjoy her music, we can maybe embrace some of these personas that she's using within the songs, not to absolve her necessarily, but to recognize this sort of creative playground that she's creating for us. Yeah, maybe when you create these alter egos, you slowly become them as well. Anyway. Very fight club-esque.

Yeah, right, totally. Will you continue? All right, so to bring it back to Roman Holiday, kind of like our conversation, right? After we have this mad digression where it gets a little wacky, Martha is here as kind of a solve to take us back to the core story. Oh, my God. But we're also like traveling around the world here. We have these EDM risers, but then these giant orchestral horn stabs, tabla drums in the background. I feel like I am going on a Roman holiday around the world.

Absolutely. I feel like it's the perfect bridge of rap and pop. Cinema too, almost. Absolutely. It balances both sides of the Nikki coin so well, where it's sheer insanity. and like scope and vision and theatrics with measured and calculated rhymes that have that punchability that you remember. And just when you thought you had it down, here comes the chamber music.

Nate went on a limine evoked the great Amadeus Mozart, but now I'm hearing almost like Gregorian chantey, you know, hanging out in a big old cathedral momentarily. she's taking us everywhere but we're not done yet this is wild I pose the question is Roman holiday a Christmas song I would love to hear this

in Nordstrom's you know just like next to Bing Crosby this does feel like a statement this song you get the sense that this is a song that she's pulling out all the stops for

and like this this is meant to represent some apotheosis of her artistry. There's so much going on here. It's so kind of experimental but also incredibly catchy. I see how maybe this Roman character is not just like on the fringe of her creative expression, but somehow like central to how she identifies as an artist. And the arc that you've taken us on so far begins with, a character Roman who doesn't even announce their name.

It's maybe harder to identify to so clearly presented front and center, announcing himself, changing voices, playing multiple characters. The artistry of these alter egos has evolved. And I imagine Charlie and I might have the same question after hearing this chronology of the Roman persona. Why? Why does Nikki Minaj need to channel a pubescent British, potentially Jewish? Just going to put that out there, boy.

Like there's so many swaps going on there, right? Racial, gender, age, like... Nationality. Nationality. Like, what is this character signifying for Nikki? That is my burning question right now. Great question. We will get to that after the...

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No, let's more vets. Your business will be a super-exiton with Shopify. Empecia to a period of per year for a euro at month in Shopify.es bar records. So, despite Roman having such a distinct sound,

vision, and place in the Nicky Minaj Canon, Roman, of course, is only Nicky Minaj's entry in a long line of musical alter egos. Musicians historically love an alter ego, right? In some cases, thinking of like a Garth Brooks Chris Gaines moment, it allows artists to reach outside of their comfort zone and tackle genres that they wouldn't be accepted in or even allowed to participate in otherwise. Garth Brooks is a country artist.

Chris Gaines was his more rocky, poppy, weird 90s take on the more mainstream music that was happening at the time. Artists like Beyonce have alter egos. Sasha Fierce was the character present on Beyonce's album, I Am Sasha Fierce. Ziggy Stardust can be considered David Bowie's alter ego. This thing has always been present in the biggest pop stars of all time. And it's a gimmick, but it's also a way to try new things, imbue your songwriting, with story because, you know, at the end of the day, however corny it may be, songs are

storytelling. And that's what Roman is. He's a character in Nikki Minajah's story. He allows her to stretch the limits of her sound, try new things, and to touch on new elements to make her music more exciting, more fun, and everlasting, memorable, like you guys have been saying. It also explains, I think, to a certain degree, some of her career longevity, that as a rapper, there's so much expectation of speaking from your personal truth. And, you know, you got to keep on spitting bars. And, you know, if you're only going to draw from your personal experience, it can be hard to come up with original material. But if you have all of these characters in which you can evoke, you could write token length, you know, epic fantasy novels.

I think Roman partially explains her career longevity, too. Right. And in hip-hop specifically, the alter ego is a way. to do many things that are different in a rappers over. The alter ego can be implemented to do a different style of rapping, give a different flow, wrap over different beats, provide a persona or a different narrative for your work because, as you said, Charlie, rappers are kind of expected to provide their own personal experiences.

So an alter ego is, at the end of the day, used to keep the artistry exciting. Madlib had Quasimodo, two popes, had Machiavelli when he was releasing his posthumous records. But there's one persona that is maybe the biggest in hip-hop. Do you guys know what that is? I mean, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Are you talking about Humpty Hump from the Digital Underground?

Oh, no, but that's a good one for Shock G. It's actually, and you're going to gag when you hear this, Eminem and Slim Shady. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gagging, who literally gives us the idea of Stan. So similar to Nicky's Roman Reloaded and Roman Reloaded the re-up, Eminem has two full albums dedicated to the persona of Slim Shady. There's the Slim Shady LP one and two. And then we get the Marshall Mathers LP later and we get to hear the real Eminem. Exactly.

So compare the choruses of the way I am off the Marshall Mathers LP with my name is off the Slim Shady LP. And here's my name is. These names. These records, my name is. These records are a year apart. Slim Shady LP preceded Marshall Mathers LP by a year. And it's so drastic how the personas are different. You know, my name is as goofy, it's fun.

As you get into the song, there's a lot of fun, silly ad libs. The way I am is angry. And the voice is in an entirely different position. Again, here we're getting in sort of nasally, high-pitched. It makes it very goofy. In contrast to when we're hearing Marshall Mathers, which is like low and guttural and forceful. And granted, it could come as part of the subject matter of the songs where the way I am is kind of him getting stuff off his chest versus my name is, which is like goofy. character work, you know, but it's still kind of what Nikki Minaj is doing. And Roman even has a tie-in

with Slim Shady. Eminem is a feature on Roman's Revenge, as we talked about up top. But in the music video for a moment for life, it's mentioned that the two, Roman Zelansky and Slim Shady, as punishment for the events depicted in Roman's revenge, are sent off to boarding school together because they're so wacky. Oh my God. So this is like when the Marvel and DC cinematic universes combine, that's the hip-hop equivalent. The lore runs deep, y'all.

It's crazy. Really? I know so, darling. I don't want you to worry about anything, darling. Well, where's Roman, Godmother? I know you brought him. Where is he? Oh, darling, don't you start worrying about Roman, darling?

Listen, he's off to boarding school, by the way. Him and Slim Shady. What? So when we can havoc over the industry, darling. Oh, no. Never mind. It's all about you. Isn't it a deli? And sidebar, that is a funny moment because

Moment for Life is one of Nicky's most personal songs, both in delivery. It's very delicate in the construction of it. So it's kind of, Roman is gone. It's you now. It makes me wonder, you know, aside from the tradition of

alter egos and hip-hop and popular music, do you think there's any particular reason that it came into Nicky's world? Is that something she's, shared it all? Well, Nikki grew up in Trinidad and Tobago and she has mentioned in interviews before, she devised characters as a child to kind of help her escape the turmoil that was going on in her home. Moving to the industry, though, Nikki has said on multiple occasions that the hip-hop industry

is hard and difficult to break into and succeed in as a woman. So under this lens, Roman, specifically could be seen as an aid, the way to help Nikki succeed in a male-dominated industry. Roman helps her be tough. He helps her have the wherewithal to hold her own against men. He helps her kind of establish her presence, considering her first few big moments were on men's songs, like Kanye's monster, ludicrous is my chick bad, as we talked about before, or Tray Songs bottoms up, which to me I remember as the first time that I was really hearing Nikki Minaj.

If a bitch tried to get cute, I'm a snuffer. Then we'll add a money out of done, y'all fucka. Then I'm going to get my Louisville. Wait, who was she just at the end of that? She's doing multiple voices here. She's doing so many. I think it might be slipping into the Harajuku Barbie persona.

It could be the female Weezy persona. because as we said, there are over 20. Yeah, wow. But I'd be remiss if we're talking about female alter egos and we didn't talk about where Nikki Minaj takes inspiration from with these characters. In female hip-hop, there's less alter egos, but they still exist. There's Megan the Stallion and Tina Snow. There's Mary J. Blige and Brooklyn.

But it can all be traced back to Lil Kim, who set the blueprint with Queen Bitch. and Queen Bitch, short into Queen B, is present on multiple songs, including the titular Queen Bitch. Off like Plythe, hit hard like sledge hammers. Bitch with that platinum brimmer. I am a diamond cluster hustler. Queen bitch, Supreme Bitch. Kill a nigger for my nigger by any means bitch. Because I know the Barbes are going to kill me if I don't mention this.

Lil Kim has a longstanding beef with Nikki Minaj. Okay, okay. Good to know. The Barb is, of course, being Nikki Minaj's fan group. Yes, yes. They've been going at it for a while. But Lil Kim is also so deeply important to the modern state of female rap because Lil Kim is credited as being one of the first female rappers

to be openly and overtly sexual in their lyrics. And Queen B in Lil Kim's career is kind of the parallel of Roman in Nikki Minaj's career, where instead of Queen B being a child who airs out, you know, his wildest thoughts and song, Queen bitch is kind of a conduit for Lil Kim to get more overtly aggressive, more overtly sexual. And it's an alter ego that is present in some of her most popular music. So bringing it back to Nikki Minaj's solo career, it's unfortunate because at some point post-Roman reloaded, the album with which Roman had the reins, Nikki grows tired of him.

She kind of kills him off in the NMCU, basically, and tosses him to the side. Well, he had to go to boarding school and, you know, learn all of his proper manners and things like that. So maybe he had to grow up. Yeah, I mean, maybe. But either way, by the pink print,

Nicky's 2014 album, Roman is nowhere to be found. Roman's gone. You have some songs that have a Roman vibe, right? Like Truffle butter. There's an intense beat. The rap goes hard. But it's all Nikki.

She's rapping as herself. Thinking out loud. I must have about a million on me right now. And I ain't talking about that little Wayne record. I'm still a highest selling female rapper for the record. Man, this is a 65 million single soul. Rapping as herself as we understand her to be. Right.

I mean, she says she's the highest selling female rappers. So she's very much in the Nicki Minaj self because as we've established Roman as a man. I feel like maybe I'm being a little too picky here, but I think it's always important to think about like in all of pop music and especially in rap, there's this expectation of like you're singing as yourself. And I think it's always like you are singing as pop star persona. And I think the self is incredibly flexible even when it is a more personally narrative track. In fact, you know, as you absorb your alter egos and potentially become some of them, we should always be suspect of the details and what is. fact and what is fiction in any given moment in a song. I mean, clearly Nikki Minaj brings back these alter egos at will, but a few years past

and in that time, people are asking, Nikki, are you bringing back Roman? What's the deal with Roman? And she's like, oh, we'll see. He's at uni, you know. Right, exactly, exactly. But inevitably, Roman is MIA. Nikki's fourth record, Queen drops in 2018. And there's no Roman on the record except one verse on Barbie dreams.

He done body, everybody ain't closing these bitches loosing. Use it. U's an up my bitch moving. No, I ain't studying to know I ain't roving. Damn my bitch snoozy. Shout out to my Jews, the hymeric roving. Big back to these, yes, they be protruding. I'd be like, fuck on.

Okay, so was that Roman for just like two seconds in there for a minute? Well, exactly. It's Roman for, you know, 30 seconds. The Roman voice. Right, right. And we hear the hallmarks of Roman because there's sirens in the beat. It's more primal. It's directly in contrast to the majority of the song,

which is a riff on notorious B.I.G. The vocal affectation is there, but when Roman is rapping on Queen, it's like he's neutered. Something is off. And even though, you know, she's getting in these goofy moments where she's like,

you know, like actually like snoring and stuff, the urgency there really isn't present for me. Roman, where have you gone? Perhaps some evidence for my theory that Roman is Jewish, you know, he's shouting out. He says shout out to my Jews. Le Chaheim, Rick Rubin.

Just going to throw that out there. I caught that. I have a pathological urge to identify everyone who might be, even the hint of Jewishness. Representation matters, Nate. That's right. So that was the second to last formal appearance of Roman to date. Nikki totes him out for the remix of Super Freaky Girl, but it's the same thing. The voice is lessened, and it honestly feels wrong to call it a Roman remix because the

beat doesn't change either. It doesn't match the Roman persona. Lots of references here to prior work. We got the Anaconda in there. Lots of references here to prior work. We got the Anaconda in there. Obviously we have references to the horror films that we heard in the very first inference of Roman. So Roman is president, super freak.

Roman is president and super freak. But the voice, I don't know, when I tap into Roman, something that gets me there is the voice. And I feel like the voice is secondary in this. You know, it's really like Roman got sent off to boarding school to be normal and then comes back and is just like a lesser tiny version. Yeah. He went to boarding school somewhere. in New York City and yeah he doesn't have that British accent anymore. So I don't know.

I hear the lyrical connections, but I don't know, it just feels wrong to me to call it a Roman remix. And it feels like Roman has become more of a marketing ploy than anything, like something to get people to listen to a Nikki Minaj remix without her putting in the effort that Roman honestly deserves. So that brings us to her new album, Pink Friday, too. It's out as we speak. And listening to the record, it seems like Roman is gone for good. Oh. I know. No.

I know. Sab. There's no formal appearances of him on the record, which is fascinating, considering Pink Friday 2 is in the timeline a sequel to Pink Friday and Pink Friday Roman Reloaded. By naming the record Pink Friday 2, maybe I'm crazy, but I would automatically expect a Roman connection there. Yeah, but trying to think about what the corollary in film is where a sequel is made, but none of the characters are the same.

Maybe like the Jurassic Park franchise is a good example. We're like, whatever happened to the scientist? Where did he go? And you're like, you know, some convenient excuse that that person is not in the film and the sequel. And those sequels, though, because they don't have the same characters, they don't have the same reverence. Are you saying Jurassic Park 2 isn't cinematic gold? What are you talking about, Rian? Okay, okay. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But...

You are a film major who reviews films nearly daily. And you're calling the Lost World Jurassic Park, too. So, you know, just don't get too big for your britches. But, I mean, it reflects, like, the reverence that people are having for this record or the lack thereof. People do not like this record from what I've been seeing so far. and it's because a lot of people feel like they've been misled. Why would you name an album Pink Friday too and not have even like your starships or your super bass type songs on there? You know, there's no Roman.

There's no tries for, you know, a big sweeping pop hit. And the ones that do are kind of relying on samples. I mean, just look at the song My Life, which is on the back half of the record. It uses a sample of Heart of Glass by Blondie. just pitches it up and doesn't even implement it in a way that serves the song. There's a term for this, which is narrative debt, right? She's set up all this expectation given her listeners, this connection to this character, and you expect some kind of resolution, but this universe of music has gotten so complicated

or she has gone in other directions that there are these narrative trails that just haven't been fulfilled. It also is probably part of what initially inhibited me from getting into the music, which is like you really need to get into this world to get into it. And then it's very satisfying. And so I can totally understand for anybody who loves any franchise when the franchise departs from your expectations. You're like, well, I'm out of here. And I think Marvel Cinematic Universe, for example, has the same problem. Right.

But there's also a difference. I mean, I think, I think as we've articulated here, certainly Nikki has every right to retire this character. if it fails to move her or serve her artistic needs. But I can also understand from a fan's perspective if there's no closure. You know, there's no

ceremonial, you know, just putting Roman on a on a Viking ship and sending him off to sea and sending a arrow with a flame to light it on fire. You know what I'm talking about. There's no,

Barb's fans don't have a chance to, you know, more and say goodbye, whatever they need to do to process the end of the Roman era. It's like... The Roman Empire. The collapse of the Roman Empire. All we do is think about Rome and clearly she does not fulfill that expectation. Roman Zelansky is our Roman Empire.

Yeah, that's good. So, yeah, you know, maybe that's part of this is like there's not that sense of closure. I don't know. Yeah. It feels like without Roman on Pink Friday, too, it's... hard to discern what makes Nikki Minaj work as an artist. It's hard to discern what makes Nicky Minaj really Nikki because throughout this record, you know, her wraps to me feel kind of purposeless and nondescript. And it seems as though, you know, despite the inner barb in me

telling me otherwise, Nikki might need Roman to keep herself relevant. These other personas like Red Ruby, the sleeves, Chunli, they're not pulling the same wait. So I, for one, am waiting for the Roman Empire to come back in full force. This episode is Switched on Pop. It was produced by Rana Cruz, edited by Julie Myers, engineered by Brandon McFarlin, illustration by Iris Gottlieb, community management by Adam Far, and Nashot Car was our executive producer. You may recall that we have a newsletter. Whoa. Beon, beep, bea, boom. Wow. What? Crazy.

Yes, it's true. A newsletter. You can sign up for it. Okay, calm down everyone. Sorry. I got to get through this. But Nate, what will it give us? Oh, well, thanks for asking. We'll give you what we're listening to this week. It'll give you our favorite stories that we can't cover on the podcast.

We'll give you an insight into our weird and wonderful personalities. If that's at all appealing for you, go to switchjumphop.com and sign up today. Also on our website, you can find some very hot merch, some cool hats, all kinds of things, last minute gifts. And if you want to chat with us, we are on social media at Switched on Pop. We'll be back next week with a very special holiday episode. Nate, tell the good people what's going to be happening. Y'all, we sat down with this year's holiday hitmaker Matt Rogers, comedian, podcaster, actor, post of a dog grooming show on HBO Max. A multi-hyphenate is what I'm saying.

Hysterical Christmas album that we are going to unpack in all its glee. you don't want to miss it. Truly the funniest Christmas album I've ever heard. So we'll see you next Tuesday. And until then, thanks for listening. Thanks for listening.