Switched on Pop - Olivia Rodrigo has The Cure for sadness

Episode Date: June 15, 2026

Olivia Rodrigo is back with her third studio album, you seem pretty sad for a girl in love. As the title might suggest, it’s a deeply personal affair, with moody soundscapes supporting hyper-detailed lyrics of soul-wrenching depth. This album is a meditation on desire, and intriguingly, the letdown that can occur when desire is fulfilled. Each track is haunted by a band that basically invented the idea of unfulfilled longing, The Cure, who receive multiple direct shout-outs and numerous subtle references. But the album isn’t a tribute, or a rip-off. It’s a continuation of the voice Rodrigo has been developing ever since she debuted “drivers license” in 2021. It’s a sound distinctly her own, with signature techniques to match. The “re-verse” in “Drop Dead,” which we discussed in a prior episode, and a spiraling structure that keeps listeners waiting and waiting for the final word. Tune in to hear how Olivia channels her gothic predilections and fastidious lyrical craft into a powerful emotional payoff.  Songs discussed: Olivia Rodrigo - drop dead, stupid song, u + me =

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All vets are in network. Go to fetchpet.com slash save right now for your free quote. That's fetchpet.com slash save. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu. It's the only business software you'll ever need.

It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, economy. and more. And the best part, O-DU replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try O-D-U for free at O-D-O-D-O-O-O-D-O-com. My mayor's Muslim. My bagel's Jewish. My jazz is B-BOPP. Olivia Rodriguez got a brand-new album. We're going to break down on Switch on Pop. Whoa! Welcome to Switchdown Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. Charlie Olivia Rodriguez is back with her third studio album. It's called You Seem Pretty Sad for a Girl in Love.

It's a good title. It's produced by Dan Nigro, who worked on all of her previous albums with her. And many of the songs were written with him and Amy Allen. Otherwise, this is a really intimate affair. And it sounds like a deeply, personal album. It's got these moody soundscapes supporting hyper detailed lyrics with soul-wrenching specificity. It's also a meditation on desire and maybe more intriguingly a meditation on what happens when desire is fulfilled. Meditation with a bottle of wine, you mean? Yes, I don't know if that's approved, you know, Zen behavior, but don't think so. The beats were probably into it. This album is also an extended homage to a certain band whose name rhymes with demure. The cure. Yes.

And finally it finds Olivia honing an approach to songwriting that I think she's been developing over her entire career. And I am finally ready to identify and name today, Charles. What's that? Whoa, whoa, whoa. Save it. I'm not going to give it to. This is a meditation on desire unfulfilled, Charlie. I'm not just going to give it to you right out of the gate. I'm going to make you wait for it. You're going to make me feel how this album is trying to make me feel? All right. Exactly. Exactly. And now, are you ready to get sad? I'm ready. We kick this album off with a track that we've actually already broken down on the pod. It is drop dead. So good. Suspended animation. We're waiting for the love to happen.

A couple important things in this track that set the tone for the whole album. Again, this word I'm going to keep coming back to desire, wanting to be with someone so badly that you feel like you might drop dead. And an important reference to the band, that haunts this album, The Cure. We have a shout out of the words did just like heaven. I know why he wrote them now that you're standing right here. We have a shout out to their song, Just Like Heaven.

And this song also introduced us to a concept that we identified as the reverse. or maybe the Voltaverse, a second verse that doesn't return to the music of the first verse, but actually introduces something entirely new. And I feel like I might throw up, left hook, right punch to the butt. You're just so pretty boy. I'm paranoid. I made you off.

We can go real slow because I got chewing gum and a bunch of stuff I'd like to know. Have you ever been to? We speculated that this Volta rebuttal. verse might stem from Olivia Rodriguez's musical theater background. It's also maybe a larger trend in some of the artists of the moment, such as Chapel Rhone. But what we didn't know at the time, Charlie, was that this single Drop Dead was actually going to be part of a larger treatise on love and desire. And when Olivia teased the album on Instagram, and when Olivia teased the album on Instagram a few weeks ago, she actually divided it up into two parts. Girl in Love is actually going to be

the heading for the first seven songs on the album. And then you seem pretty sad is going to be the heading for the last six songs on the album. Okay. So there's kind of a diatic structure here that reverses the chronology of the album title. The first half of this album is, going to be about being in love and the second half is going to be about being sad to some degree. Diatic. You know I love it when you use those professorial words. Bipartite, perhaps, is an alternative. So Drop Dead is not only the first single, it's not only the first track on the album. It not only gives us the Voltiverse and our references to The Cure. It also kind of announces like, okay, this album, at least in its first seven songs, is really going to be all about feeling love, feeling

desire feeling like wanting someone and i think there's something we missed that i want to name now which is the way that olivia builds these songs so that they intensify those feelings it's something i propose we call the spiraling song you mean like emotionally spiraling Well, yes, because a lot of these songs do a lot of emotional spiraling. But also there's a literal spiral or a music theoretical spiral happening. Unspool this for me. When we get to the chorus of Drop Dead, it's going to circle around and around and get closer and closer to the center until it finally ends with the pronouncement of the title of the song at the very end of the song. chorus.

Okay, it's going to start to the center of the vortex. Building, building, building, until we fall through the center. Right at the moment when we get the title of the track, the central idea. The chorus builds, builds, it increases in intensity and momentum, and then finally, it plunges into the central idea of the song. That's so satisfying. The spiral song. The image I keep having in my head is very specific, and I'm curious if you

can relate to it. You go to like a children's museum. I mean, this is something we do a lot, so maybe it may be more familiar. They have these big, circular games where you drop a coin in one end and then it rolls around and spirals into the center. It's like the most basic

arcade game ever invented but it is mesmerizing. I don't know if that thing has a name but that's how I that's what I picture when I'm listening to some of these songs. The coin just getting faster and faster until it falls through

the middle. So a lot of these techniques we hear on Drop Dead, the expression of desire, the spiraling structure. It's continued in the next track, which is called Stupid Song. Why is she belittling the power of a song? Because a song can never actually replace the power of a emotion, right? It can sort of like limit and describe it, but it's asymptotic. It gets close to it,

but it never quite captures it. Well, it's also a quick fix. It's three minutes long and then it's gone. We have another spiraling chorus here. Oh, yeah. I'm a heart made of wax and I'm melting in the sun, getting closer and closer. I'm a thread on your shirt that's coming and done. It's increasing.

I feel right. I feel wrong. It feels totally insane. And I want you more than... There's our title phrase. It builds up to the title. You're waiting for it. You're waiting for it.

And then finally you get it. this moment of climax. Perhaps it's worth, you know, comparing this to the typical approach to a chorus, which does not make you wait for the payoff like this. It gives you the payoff right at the start of the chorus. Take a peer of Olivia Rodriguez that uses the same producer, Dan Nigro, Chapel Rhone. Her song, Pink Pony Club, is like a paradigmatic chorus. It's the title of the song and it gets repeated over and over again.

Not to overgeneralize, but that's like the classic way to write a chorus. Pink Pony Club. Pink Pony Club. Pink Pony Club. Let's say it a lot. Let's get a suck in your head. Let's have you sing along. That's not what Olivia Rodrigo does. It's more of this approach of delayed gratification.

It makes me realize that all of her training in television and theater, musical, world, I think, is also paying off, right? In theatrical work, you need to have drama always moving you forward, pulling you through. You can't all of a sudden arrive and be like, oh, everything feels totally concluded. If you do, it has to be quickly upset so that Act 2 can come next. That's right, Charlie, you have to ratchet up the tension. And that's something she does really nicely in the bridge of this track, Stupid song. Dream of you from like one to four

Positively and truly sure Nobody's wanting somebody It's a good that I can't make more Tell your friends at your mind on your With the hand of my heart I swear Nobody Oh that's I love that call and response

Oh my gosh It's really intense It's a smart move too Because I feel like there are a few moments On this track maybe throughout this album Where it almost gets like a little Too introspective or too sad or slow.

And then she'll always, like, throw in this little burst of energy that just, like, keeps you alert as a listener and locks you back in. Just really managing our expectations. At the same time, this bridge is just deepening the message of the first part of this album, you know, Girl in Love. Nobody's wanted somebody more. That is, like, such an Olivia Rodrigo mantra, you know, like, I can't, even. and deal with how much I'm crazy about you.

It's a theme that gets picked up in another song from the first half of this album with a title that I'll try and decipher. It is the letter you plus sign me equals hard emoji. Pause. You're 100% sure that that's not a cure song? Yes. Okay. I'm so glad we're on the same page here because we've arrived at our.

second pretty explicit cure reference. Certainly not a carbon copy, which is something, you know, Olivia has had to deal with before in the past, whether it's references to Paramore on her first album Sauer or even Elvis Costello. By no means am I saying she needs to add Robert Smith as a songwriter to this one. No.

But yeah, there's a resemblance to the opening of one of the Cure's big hit. It's Friday, I'm in love. And play back the Olivia. It's actually more subtle than I realize. It's just kind of in the universe of the cure, the chorusing on the guitar. Really, they both have this way of playing simple rock chords that instantaneously bring a tear to your eye. You're like, well, I'm getting in my feelings right away.

Just in that intro. I feel pretty confident saying that for me, the references to the cure, and there are more coming, if you're not, don't ever make me feel like she's trying to, you know, use our love and familiarity with this band to, like, advance her own agenda. It really feels like she's just genuinely been in her feelings listening to The Cure and went into these songwriting sessions and was like, I can't help it. This is the vibe I'm on right now. And it just made its way very organically into the songs. That's my take on it, at least. I also think that she has throughout her three albums gone deeper into her references, rather than splinter into I'm going country, I'm going, you know, pop, EDM, whatever.

She's always just done the sort of like ballad thing, you know, your driver's license, piano. I got my driver's license last week, just like we always talked about. Your vampire. I hate to give the satisfaction asking how you. you're doing now. How's the castle built off people you pretend to care about just what you want it? Look at you. Cool guy.

You got it. And then she has punk and pop punk and alt rock is kind of like, that's her other thing. And I like that she's showing us who she loves paying fealty to them, I think. As we continue with you plus me equals heart love emoji. We get yet another one of these. spiraling choruses. Spiraling faster and faster. And there's our title phrase.

Finally. Fact-checking department coming in really quickly. A emoji is a actual drawing of a symbol, whereas what we were talking about is, in fact, an emoticon. I really appreciate that correction, Charlie. You know, I'm a stickler for... Lexographical issues such as this, so much appreciated. And I feel like that. like Olivia would be the same. She's clearly a hyper-literate kind of writer, despite her affinity for

emoticons here. And I feel like that's why this spiral song technique works so well. It allows her to like literally spiral out in real time with her language. And then we kind of get to the end of the chorus and we reset. And the next song we'll listen to is actually kind of a reset for the album. So the album, let's see, it's 13 tracks. And I told you it was divided into two halves. Our love set that we're just making our way through now and we're about to embark into the sad set. And we have this like kind of transitional piece called purple, which is literally like the merging of two colors into one. And it kind of represents our movement from the pursuit of desire to the fulfillment of desire.

So it goes And you Kiss my neck Okay, first of all Fabulous Metaphor Red and blue Creates purple

Simple, but really nice Purple in my quick research Symbolizes royalty, luxury because historically creating purple was very challenging. That's right. Oh, that's what the Roman senators would. I think they would wear purple togas, as I recall. But also symbolizes magic and mystery.

And there's something very mysterious about that line. When she sings purple harmonically, that blending of the red and blue, this is not a beautiful purple. There is some tension happening there. Circle. Is there tension? It feels like just a kind of, major key harmony to me. Let's see.

What is? There's something really... It's like a minor for the first purple. That kind of moves to some kind of diminished chord, I think, before. Okay, so at the risk of derailing this whole discussion to go nerd out over the harmonies, I am hearing what you're saying. There's a little more tension on that word purple than I originally noticed. This color theory metaphor is. indicating that transition as you're putting it from like love fulfilled into something isn't quite fulfilled in the blending of these two colors. That's what that chord is telling me.

Yes, I think that's a very trenchant observation because throughout the first, you know, six tracks of this album, it's like, I want you, I want you, I desire you, I crave you, I can't stop thinking about you. And in this song, I finally get you. And then what happens, Charlie? Yanked away. It's not all it's cracked up to be. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu. It's the only business software you'll ever need.

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Our colors are merging. Purple Theory. And yet almost instantly in the next song, it's like, oh, man, I finally found you and I'm still not satisfied. This is, well, it's called The Cure. Huh. They're together, but all is not well. There's jealousy, there's doubt, there's insecurity. And once again, a spiral chorus will deepen the intensity of those emotions.

like medication and sure but it don't matter how your love feels and never it will ever be the cure Nate Charlie I'm galaxy braining on this Okay take

Take me there This is our transitional song And I was so confused When the verse started happening Because I was like, wait, is this Major or Minor? Mm-hmm The opening chord is this

The foreground of my mind I thought I'd done enough But they keep moving the line The opening chord is this Right That's a B flat Suss 2 Which is to say It doesn't have a major or minor third in it

We don't know if it's Or this It just... Cool And so it's really ambiguous to have... Cool. We don't really know where we are.

Yeah, it doesn't give you enough sonic information to know if we should be in love or sad. Exactly, exactly. It's right in between the two. She's having this crisis both lyrically and harmonically. Well, that crisis only deepens when we get to the, I guess, like, refrain of the song, maybe a bridge, maybe a refrain, maybe an interlude.

It just consists of one repeated phrase, I'm unraveled. Okay, I think you are feeling very smart right now because you've got your whole spiral song and now she is unraveling that spiral. I mean, I do most of the time. But if we're unraveling, you know, that takes us back to the thread on the sweater from which song was that? Stupid song, I think. Oh, my gosh, right. There's so many interior references in this album. Because you've also got the chorus, right?

But my head is full of poison. My heart is full of doubt. I got toxins in my bloodstream. You tried hard to suck them out. Who sucks out toxins from people's bloodstreams? Vampires. Vampires. Yeah.

I love when someone has like inner mythology of their work. It's kind of a reverse vampire in a way. She's like, you know, flipping the idea of that song from guts, perhaps. I'm with you. It could easily be read as a reference to that track. We get this unraveling twice. And the second time, towards the very end of the song, it leads into a great reveal. It's like if The Cure wrote a song in 2026, it's about the Cure, not being the Cure, the whole thing unravels.

I love that build. It's another kind of delayed gratification that takes a lot of boldness to pull off as an artist, especially as like a big pop artist in on. Dono, Domini, 26, to wait. I mean, what was that? That was three and, like, a half minutes for the drums to finally kick in in this song. Wow. Yeah. That's a crazy move in this short attention span economy.

Yeah. But, again, it supports so many of the messages of this album of, like, just, like, waiting and hoping and trusting things will work out. And they don't always, in fact. But, hey, we did get another cure reference. So by my count, that's three so far. And also another great opportunity to hush the voices of her critics who are going to say, you're just doing the cure.

And she's like, it will never be the cure. Right. That is a fun way to read it, right? She's literally talking about like the cure to these things she's feeling. And she's also like maybe just talking about the band. You'll never be the cure. She's never as great as that greatness, but I'm happy to reference it. That's kind of a sentiment that.

emerges over the course of this album. Like, you get what you want, and yet it's not what you hoped it would be. There's this song called Begged that captures this really beautifully. Nothing's quite enough when I know that to get it, I beg. Yeah, to get it I. Nothing's quite enough when to know that I get it, I begged. It's like finally got this relationship, finally got this fulfillment,

but there's all these things that are making me question it. Is it real? Because I begged, is it ever going to be enough? This might be like the most beautiful song on the album to me. And maybe the moment that kind of highlights what she can do as a vocalist. Yet I still cling, cling to hope like snow on loud.

Careless words. Beautiful countermelting that over. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful countermelodies happening here. But there is some wish fulfillment on this album, Charlie. I'm happy to report because the next song we're going to hear is actually a duet. with the spirit that has been watching over all these proceedings until now.

It's what's wrong with me, and it's a duet with the lead singer of The Cure Robert Smith. There's that. There's that unmistakable. There's that unmistakable. unmistakable voice that launched a thousand goth rock imitators and here he is literally singing harmony for Olivia it's like somebody

grow away on my chest I should talk to a friend but I can't get out of bed my head is spinning and my stomach is sick stay I'm in love so it's hard to admit I can't eat I can't sleep. I think you what's wrong.

And yes, that is another spiral chorus. There we go. Building up to that central title phrase at the very end of the chorus, making you wait for it, Charlie. She's even got Robert Smith caught up in this spiraling out now. I love that she brings Robert Smith in, not just as a collaborator, but the cure in general, because their music, I really feel like captures the same kind of sentiment that we're hearing on this song and on this album. You've got like driving drums that you want to bop your head along to.

Yeah. And the saddest lyrics and melodies that make you want to cry. And that's what's happening on this album. It's like love unfulfilled. Pop song, but you're going to hunch over and wear some red lipstick and dye your hair black. Totally. And even on the cure songs that are unironically positive, like Friday, I'm in love, perhaps. Yes.

Yes. Yes. The way he sings still makes you feel a little sad somehow. It's like even when he's singing, you know, about being in love, you're like, are you though? Because love despite the world. You sound kind of tortured to me. Let's quickly listen to less another sad banger with a spiraling structure. This is the most musical theater moment on this album.

I can totally see this as the moment in the second act when the character is sort of like at their breaking point. And then, you know, something positive happens that we go like right into the grand finale. And I would not be surprised when there's a blockbuster musical written by Olivia Rodriguez hitting Broadway in the next 10 years. Oh, for sure. I mean, this is your spiral chorus, right?

We get that line at the end. But it's done with some sort of like classical pop harmony. We're sort of moving through traditional pop chords. And it does make you think that some of that spiral chorus nature hitting the title line at the end does really feel very classical pop, musical theater. It is that sort of old AAB style of writing a song where you land the title of the song at the end of the verse here. of course, at the end of the chorus. So you can feel the influence really clearly on this song. You know, this whole time we've been talking about influences like The Cure.

And yet you also have musical theater happening with these cure references at the same time. So she's blending it all together. Totally, which raises a question for me, like, will these songs be played on radio? Because I feel like there is something unfriendly, frankly, to the commercial mass media market with this approach to songwriting where, again, you have to wait for. it. Like, it requires a certain amount of patience on the part of the listener. Like, do listeners have that kind of patience? I mean, there's that old adage, don't bore us. Don't Boris. Get to the chorus. Yeah. And here she is making us wait. Now, there's one exception to the rule, which is the next track expectations. This kind of breaks the mold. It's pretty much an 80s pop banger. Oh, wait,

turns out it is another spiral chorus, actually. And yet, it feels more. sort of radio friendly and I love this idea of like, you know, now I've got expectations. But Charlie, I have a gift for you. I hope it's a synthesizer. Not quite. No. It's a Voltaverse. Oh.

So I hit the new year like a single girl at a Vegas bar. Rock in my mini dress with a vodka crann and open heart. Yeah, I've got hope. Yeah, I've got drive. I will not lose my face. Don't think my future husband's up this bar in Silver Lake. One thing that I really like about the combination of this very hyper 80s sort of new wave sound with that reverse, Vultaverse, we still haven't decided, is that spoken quality feels very new wave.

We had seen it from lots of different angles. We had talked about maybe some of the Taylor inspiration and the chapel does it. But it's not something new. It's actually something quite old. It feels like David Byrne or something. How about once in a lifetime? And you may find yourself living in a shot-on-share. How did I get here?

And of course, David Byrne has covered driver's license. David, keep it, PG. Thank you, David Byrne for always keeping it weird. David Byr and Levera Rigo have collaborated on stage. They've sung Burning Down the House together. So this talk-sing reverse thing, once you put it in the context of those 80s sense, you realize, oh, this is something old, and it's just having new life. We've made it to the last track of You Seem Pretty Sad for a Girl in Love.

And here's the very end of the final track, Cigarette Smoke. So gentle and it's so sad. Yeah, I mean, there's that reversal of the title again. You seem pretty sad for a girl in love. The memories are going dark. The guitar is like fading out, making it quiet or inquire as the final line is go dark. I know. There's also kind of a devastating moment.

Like we talked about this album being kind of self-referential earlier. There is a song we didn't discuss in the first half called Honeybee. That's like a love song about the person she's crazy for. and she has this, you know, pet name for them, Honeybee. And then in this last song, which is so sad and quiet and dark, she makes another reference to Honeybee, but now it's a very different context. Oh, wow.

There's also a reference to that song, begged too because she's begging it's also a reference of driver's license i mean it has that very strongly particularly placed f bomb and also the phrasing of those triplets the da dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun i mean it might just be uh olivia irrigaism for sure yeah but yeah we are in the web of her creative world yeah the spiral we are in the spiral we're in the spiral whoa charlie the vortex it engulfs us all yeah it's a dark way to end this album but it feels fitting it's a creative statement of an artist who is going to be unapologetically herself she's not going to play to commercial appeal she's not going to sort of mold herself into something that she thinks the market

wants this is very much an album that only olivia rodrigo could produce and i have to say i wasn't sure that she could keep this streak going you know She conquered the sophomore jinks by many metrics with her album Guts, which was a powerful, you know, sort of development of her artistic voice. And she's continuing that here. Yeah. I still have some questions about like how these songs will resonate commercially. But, you know, who really cares? The artistically, they're solid gold.

But whenever you're listening to Olivia and you're at risk of feeling too many emotions, just step back. think about the cure references, think about the Volta reverse verses, and let yourself spiral into something with every chorus because you know the payoff is always going to be exquisite. Okay, even though it has nothing to do with anything we've talked about, I can't end this episode without asking if you've seen the clip of Robert Smith being interviewed on the red carpet prior to the Cure's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction? I did not see this. Congratulations, the Cure Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees 2019.

Are you as excited as I am? By the sounds of it, no. Oh, no. What are we going to do? I'm sure we'll get there eventually. It's a bit hard, isn't it? I guess it is. Maybe we just need a few drinks.

Like, there's nothing more fun than just messing around a little bit, giving some funny answers. But also, isn't it a sign of maturation? We're just like, this is great. I've, like, done something wonderful. I feel like I've earned this and I feel good about it. It's just like the Knicks. You saw that interview.

It's like, how you feel? Oh, my God. It's OG Ananovi after hitting the game for game winner with like two seconds left. And this press conference, he was like, yeah, it's really exciting. Yeah, we're very, yeah, we're really excited about it. And the whole press room just cracks up because he's being so calm about it. All right, you know what? I'm not calm about, Charlie. The fact that we have an unprecedented schedule on Switched on Pop this week. That's true. Yes. Right? First of all, we're releasing this on a Monday. Usually we're released on Tuesdays, but this week we're doing something different. We're about to drop three episodes on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, all exploring the phenomenon we're calling feral pop. The new sound of popular music, it's all over the place. Rihanna Cruz is reporting some really, cool music with us. So come back for the next three days to learn about the music that you

might be missing. And if you're not and you're already enjoying it, you're going to enjoy it a whole lot more. Come check out some Farrell Pop. We're talking Nina Geraci underscores to Hollis. It's going to be super fun. Come check it out. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I'm in love. Switched on Pop is produced by Rhana Cruz, edited by Lizza Soap, engineered by Brandon McFarlane, illustrations by Iris Gottlie, video by Nick Rips. Our music is by Zach Tenario and Jossi Adams of Arc Iris. We're a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network and a production of Vulture

which is part of New York Magazine. You can subscribe at NYMatic.com slash pod. We'll see you tomorrow. Until then. Thanks for listening. Spotify, it's Jay Shetty. Are you one of those media strategy people

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