Switched on Pop - Sicko Rap and Drunk Country

Episode Date: October 3, 2018

Four songs on the Hot 100 pop chart reveal the new directions in which music is headed. Travis Scott's "Sicko Mode" boasts an unprecedented formal structure that points to the future of hip hop. Meanwhile, in the world of country, Jason Aldean, Mitchell Tenpenny, and Dan + Shay are putting a modern spin on one of the style's oldest tropes: drinking bourbon. Together these tracks make up the vanguard of their respective genres, but are fans willing to take the plunge? Featuring: Travis Scott - Sicko Mode Skrillex - Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites John Zorn - Cat o Nine Tails Jason Aldean ft Miranda Lambert - Drowns the Whiskey Mitchell Tenpenny - Drunk Me Adele - Hello Justin Bieber - Sorry Dan + Shay - Tequila Recommend Reading: Kathryn Schulz on Chris Janson's "Drunk Girl" Recommended Viewing: Rich Redmond's studio drumming Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switched on Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. And I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. Charlie, today we are going to be listening to some sicko rap and some drunk country. And I'm hoping by the end of this episode, we're going to be asking some very provocative questions about where these two genres of hip hop and country music are. headed because I feel like there's a few songs on the charts right now that are pointing

towards the future of this music. I don't even know what you're talking about. I literally have no idea of it. All right, then let's dive right in. Okay. First half, side A, sicko rap. And I say that because the song we are going to talk about is called Sicko Mode by Travis Scott. And I think we're hearing the disintegration of modern hip hop into something new. Drop the needle. Drop the needle. It's down, freezing cold That's how we already know When it's here

My dog will probably do it for Louis Bell That's just all he know He don't know nothing else What's happening? Okay, so this is a little taste Of the beginning of sicko mode We're in the first minute or so And I don't know about you

But it sounds like it's just the prelude To something that we're kind of building up, right? It's kind of a sparse texture Definitely is about some sort of like rhythm drop to come in all of a sudden. Yes, I do too. And I think that's exactly what we're going to get. Let's go a little further into the track about a minute in, and you're going to hear this texture start to escalate into something new.

Nice. Ooh. Oh, yeah. Ooh. Gone on you with the pick and roll. Young a flame here in sickle mode. What? What?

What's happening? There were three fake outs. Yeah. Charlie, you asked what's happening. I'm not sure I have an answer, but I definitely want to try and come up with one with you. This feels like what dubstep was to electronic dance music, sick I was doing the hip hop. Ah, okay, pushing into new directions. Well, in particular, like, giving you jarring moments of unpredictability.

Okay, let's slow. I love where you're at, but I got to slow your role because we, we, we, we, we, first have to answer that first question. What is happening? We have a bridge to nowhere, kind of. We have this build from our intro section, which sounds like it's going to explode into this rhythmic kind of climax. And we get that for a second. Yeah. But then, you know, things break down just when we think we've reached the sort of heart of the song. I think you've got to slow it down because even before you get to the pretend base drop, There's this lead-in of these high hats that are sort of descending chromatically.

They keep happening. So this arpeggiated downward something. And it's building anticipation. I actually have no idea where it's going to go. So when that base drop happened, I was like, ooh, that's exciting. And then as if the tape machine was destroyed and some alien music is just thrown in and spliced into it. Let's listen to this moment one more time. I love that.

Goose, Ronco's snares. Snare hats. Boom. Gone on you with the pick and roll. Young a flame here in sickle mo. I love that. It's very disorienting. So disorienting.

As you say, we have these sort of cascading drums. Yeah. High hats or snares. Kind of combined. It's both of them. And it just sounds like we're reaching this cathartic moment. No sooner do we get there than it disintegrate. Well, even the base that lands, first you get this big slug 808, right?

So that's that low toned bass sound. And then all of a sudden, it has this sort of like syncopated stuttering. Yeah. And so already you're like, wait, what happened to my hit? And then that just extends into this dub delayed out tail and we get a whole new song. It falls apart multiple times. It's like watching a really slow car crash. Yeah, Charlie, you don't even know the half of it.

So let's just recap. We started with this sparse texture, had this buildup that sounded like it was reaching a steady groove. As soon as we got there, record scratch, on the word sicko mode, the title of the song, this shift to a new beat, a new texture, a new vocal approach. Yeah.

So at this point, about a minute into the song, you're like, whoa, like you said, what a fake out. Right. Right. Not what I expected. Right. But that's not the end because there's another. fake out at least one more it gets worse it gets better it gets something let's fast forward to the next

moment in this song where we have one of these radical textural shifts right she thought it was the ocean it's just a pool now i gotta open it's just the ghost who put this shit together i'm the glue so on said shorty face time me out the blue so and said someone said someone said mother so Charlie looks terrified. Amazed. Wow. Now we're in a trap track. Stage three.

Yeah. This is the same song. This is the same song. What? Yeah. I love that moment where he says ghost and then everything just drops. Like there's some great text painting and I'm not holding on to anything. Right.

And maybe this is what makes it so interesting is that they're not trying to hide the seams. Right. Between these radically different sections. Yeah. There's not like nice little pre-court. where things build and get you to the place perfectly. You're like, oh, what a reward. They're not delicately sutured together into a seamless hole.

You can really hear, whoa, this is something's happening. We're dipping into the primordial ooze and then coming out into a new pattern, a new groove, a new vocal approach. Which is why I evoke dubstep because oftentimes you would have these like, you know, fun, upbeat thing. And then all of a sudden kind of sound happened. You're like, what is happening? but it's the constant change is somehow psychologically pleasing. Yes, I'm swayed by your analogy here. And yet, again, I think there's something different that we need to identify here

because in a dubstep track, while there are these radical shifts, they're still invested in keeping you dancing, keeping your body moving. So there can't be that, you know, too many interruptions. Yeah. But here there, I think there is this weird starting and stopping. And it's like, is it, one? One song? Is it three songs in one? It's hard to say. As you point that out, it makes me think about what dancing to this looks like. I'm sure people are dancing to this music, for sure. There's got to be

some really cool forms that are constructed to work with this sudden change. I think visually it must be really compelling. Oh yeah. And I think if you go on YouTube or you go on genius.com, look at the video or the lyrics, all the comments are just from people going, what, what is that? What's happening? God, God. Now, this should be the end, but there's actually one more little, they can't resist throwing in one more of these tectonic musical shifts at the very end of the song. So let's just hear the outro, which is a whole other different world. It's beautiful.

Passes to my daughter. I'm a show what it took. Maybe mama cover Forbes got these other bitches shook. Oh, no. Oh, that's very sort of mothership. And that's it. So one final, one little just vision of a whole other world before the track cuts. Yeah.

Very disorienting. And I think, I did do. And I think in surprising ways, this whole song, the construction is analogous to a lot of postmodern classical composition, which was similarly trying to create these, like, very disjunct sections. And I think a composer who does this really well from a very different world. would be John Zorn, who has his fingers in a lot of different musical styles from jazz to heavy metal to all sorts of things. But he wrote a series of compositions in the late 80s in which he would write different themes out on index cards and then randomly shuffle them into a score. So the score is essentially a series of totally discreet, unrelixtual. musical ideas that are then randomly sorted into a particular order and played through.

Sicko. Sicko mode. Exactly. Sicko mode for string quartet. So to give you a sense of what this sounds like, this approach, this sort of disjunct collage approach in a very different realm, let's listen to just a little bit of John Zorn's string quartet from 1988, Cat of Nine Tales. I'm a cure

No I'm a question Shut up It's comical Uh Take your time So I have a question about it

Please Was he entirely committed to the algorithmic sort method Or would there be some Composer's hand After the things came together? It's a great question. I think nominally the answer is no, but who's to know? Who's to know if he cheated a little bit?

Is that what you're asking? Well, you know, sometimes I think that procedural composition for sake of the procedure does not necessarily result in things that are humanly interesting. I love that because I think that brings us right back to sicko mode. And the question, is this a coherent whole? or do we hear it as kind of three or even four disjunct individual pieces sort of roughly and maybe ineptly tied together into a single track? And I think the answer can be found in Travis Scott's own vocals. She thought it was the ocean, it's just a pool.

Now I got to open. It's just a ghost. Who put this shit together? I'm the glue. Who put this together? I'm the glue. Yeah. That to me is the thesis statement of the song and helps explain why it sounds the way it does, why it sounds so bizarre. It's almost a boast in itself. Do you think I could pull this off? Do you think we couldn't stitch all these different tracks into one thing?

We can because I'm the glue. Right. I'm the connective tissue here. Wow. Huh. How discordant can we make something and still hold it all together based off of my skill, my charisma, my identity? All of it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think this is into, in terms of now going back to, like,

the future of hip hop and, like, where this art form is going, he's opening up space for a lot of experimentalism in how hip hop is put together. And yet there's still this wonderful continuity because it's still about,

you know, the classic themes of fragadocio and, you know, self-confidence and ego. Right. So I think this track is pointing towards new directions in hip-hop. while also maintaining so much of the core themes of the genre.

It certainly feels deeply postmodern and yet of its time simultaneously. If you were to slice up each piece of this, you could probably take, we haven't listened to the whole track, but I'm guessing 60% of it, you're like trap track. That could just fit in with other stuff happening on the hip hop charts. But if it were not for all this other disjunct cut ins, and I don't have the vocabulary for it, which is exciting. Really exciting.

Yeah, exactly. So we've just been listening to some hip hop that's kind of at the vanguard of the genre pointing towards new directions. On the second half, side B of our session here, I want to dig into songs that are at the vanguard of another genre, country. You're absolutely mad. Sick of mode, Charlie. Beautiful. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster?

Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova. and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay.

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Immigration may be Donald Trump's signature issue. President Trump is now targeting predominantly democratic cities for ice raids and deportations. Dozens of protesters clashing with immigration and customs enforcement agents in Minneapolis Tuesday. We will begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal. aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to do in this space is talk about America and politics beyond the current president. So what do most Americans think about deportation and border security, period? I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ICE.

When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want border at the border. they don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. The view on immigration from the bottom up instead of the top down. That's this week on America Actually. Every Saturday in your audio and video feeds. Welcome back to Switch on Pop. And now, Charlie, it is time to check in on the country charts.

I have been absent for a while. Ditto. And there's a lot going on. So this is by no means a full. diagnosis of modern country, but rather I'm interested in focusing in on three songs that are currently on the Billboard Top 100 as of this recording, and that are all connected by a common theme. Are you ready? See if you can see what connects these three songs. We've got roads. It could be bourbon, beer. Oh, no, no, you're already, no, you're already there.

No, no, no, no, sorry, I should have stopped you, bourbon drink. Let's let's alcohol at a writ large. How novel. Yes. But as you point out, in talking about three songs that address drinking, this is a classic country trope. Yeah. But as we listen to these three songs, I think it'll also raise some questions about, again, where is country headed? In some ways, we're dealing with, yeah, one of the age-old tropes of bourbon. But as we listen, I think we're also going to hear some new musical directions opening up, even as they're still holding on to those generic conventions.

Let's start with a wonderful song by Jason Aldeen featuring Miranda Lambert. All right. All the folks down in Lynchburg, Tennessee, been working hard for good old boys like me. I don't want to be the one to tell them. That stuff that they even sell them ain't working like it should. That's a bizarre thing because you've got these like, synth sequencey things happening in the background before you get the lyricism

you might not know it's going to be a country song if not for the telecaster guitars but musically it's not doing like the 1-5 country bass thing like it's poppy well this Charlie this is exactly the question I want to pose with each of these songs you know what are the elements of this that sound country to us and what aren't and by the end I think we may be asking ourselves

what does country sound like and maybe it doesn't sound like we think it Yeah. So first of all, let's just get into the lyrics a little bit. Lynchburg, Tennessee. It's where they make all the whiskey. It's where they make all the whiskey. And then let's just, we got to get to the chorus because, you know, this is a great country song has a payoff. You chopped it off. It's a terrible thing. Well, I wanted to pause. I wanted to discuss. Now let's give it. Now let's give the payoff. Whiskey's supposed to drown. Too many. It's me. It's how your memory drowns whiskey. Ooh, a great country reversal, right? The memory drowns the whiskey. Just a wonderful little turn of phrase there. Charlie's looking at me very skeptically right now. His arms are crossed. What's going on, Chuck? I'm obviously most interested in talking about the music here. And I have to say that lyrically, there's something that I do find off putting. There is this nice turn of phrase. Like, there is something lyrically interesting about memory, whiskey, memory. But I don't, I feel like, yeah, I feel like, yeah, I feel.

not great about songs promoting the idea of drunkenness fading memory. Yeah, I totally agree. And I'm absolutely glad you brought that up, Charles. But in defense of the song, I do think it is, I mean, literally the last line is the memory drowns the whiskey. So the memories are stronger. And I think in general, like so many country songs, it expresses a very ambivalent relationship to alcohol. It's the source of joy and escapism and also a lot of... You're right.

Fear and melancholy. So you're hearing there's like there's a version of that happening in this track and that turn of phrase is suggesting that not only is the relationship to alcohol that is a trope in country music unhealthy, but at least for this narrator, it's not even working. Yeah. I'll also say as a quick aside, there is another song on The Charge Right Now that is really interesting in reference to what you're just talking about. The hearing of our Supreme Court Justice nominee, Brett Kavanaugh, everything around that.

Yeah. There's a song on the country. charts called Drunk Girl by Chris Jansen. And I thought about including that, but the author Catherine Schultz of The New Yorker has already written an amazing piece about this song and its relevance to the moment. The song is about taking a drunk girl home and just putting her to sleep and not taking advantage of her. So it kind of takes what you might think the song is about and flips it.

But it still maybe has some issues in that. Anyway, so rather than discuss it here, here, let's throw a link up to this great piece by Catherine Schultz on our show notes. Yeah. And people can read more about that song. Yeah. I think it's worth saying just personally, as I'm hearing all sort of cliches and tropes and pop music, which sort of refer back to the most sort of toxic parts of our culture

are feeling less and less okay to just bury them in the music. Yeah. So I appreciate you bringing things which are beginning to subvert, uh, sever those expectations. Yeah. No. And let's keep this alive as we go through these three songs. songs because I think in some ways they'll play into tropes of toxic masculinity and in other ways undercut them. And whiskey and drinking is a powerful metaphor to reach those things.

So let's return to the very beginning of the song, though. You were saying parts of it maybe sound quote unquote country, capital C country, but others don't. So what does sound country here? Let's spin the very beginning of the song again. Or whatever sound. Sounds almost like a secret. win-synthy thing. It's a guitar, but it sounds simple. It's a delayed guitar. Yeah, I see what you mean. And then you have the picky guitar, the dun, dun, down, do-dun, down, down, sounds like a blink 182 punkish thing. Now we get the country twang. And, okay, I don't listen to country song. But I obviously, as a guitar player, recognize the single coil pickup, fender twang in the guitars that they're playing.

But you could have played the exact same thing without the twang. And it could have gone into Kelly Clarkson song. It could have gone into a pink song. It could have been any sort of other pop song to me. I hear that, Charlie. So what is connecting this to country music, if anything? What sonic landmarks do we have? I think the most important thing that makes this country is timbre. It is the quality of the sound of the voice, which is obvious. The twang, the depth of it, the harmonies that Aldean and Miranda Lambert are singing. Yeah. And similar the voicing of the guitar itself. You could play the exact same guitar lines, literally on a different guitar. And it would have potentially been in another genre. So we don't get to talk about

on our show enough, the importance of timbre, and it's signifiers. I often think about country and I think about chord progressions which follow more of a 1-5-15, maybe a little four in there. This has got some minor chords.

And you also expect a baseline that's going, boom, boom, boom. I mean, that's like, it's almost like a caricature of a older country, and that's not so common in modern country at all. But those signifiers have really faded from the country landscape, and now what we're left with is the timbre,

the quality of the sounds of the instrumentation in the voices. All right, that's great. Let's keep those qualities in mind as we move on to our next example, okay? So there's another song that's currently, again, on the top 100. This is Drunk Me by Mitchell Tenpenny. Some people don't know when they quit And that's why they quit Some need to hit the bottom

To see they got a problem They can't end to leave To start a clean in a body There's no way to know that that's country Charlie my favorite thing about living In the same place is Recording together and just watching your countenance As we listen to these tracks

I look pretty dumbfounded Yeah, okay So why are you so mystified? know. So many things. Yeah. This sounds more like the chain smokers than it does what I would expect of country music. And there's a couple things that I'm listening for. Great. The kick drum. Yeah. The kick drum is really sparse. You get like a boom. Like that kind of thing comes from dance music sounds and more what's happening in future house, not what I would expect in country. And then just production wise, you have all these reverberations and tails. And it really is about soundscape. And, and, and

And then really only at the end of that clip, there was a little guitar that's like, and so we're going to go somewhere, which I think will probably sound more country. You're going to get... Well, let's see. Let's go to the chorus now. I'm being so like you. No, no, no. Baby, can you come on?

Because drunk me can't get over again. I mean, there's also there's like 90s R&B. Like, I feel like in another world, I'm going to offend. some people and I'm very sorry, but just music production wise, if Whitney Houston sang over this, I'd be like, we're back? Well, so funny that you say that because of course some of Whitney Houston's biggest hits, including I Want to Dance with Somebody, were originally country songs. No.

Yeah. What? That were recomposed to fit more in her R&B style. I had no idea. But still, we're some of the biggest, quote unquote, crossover successes. And that's probably because of their very specific genesis. There's such narrative. strength to those songs. It makes sense to be coming from country. So let's talk about timbre for a second,

because in the last track with Jason Aldine, you were saying that's something that really anchored us to the country tradition, the twang, the depth, the harmony. Do we have that here? Wow, there are so many songwriting tricks here. Like, I think I want to like sit down and just play on the piano for hours to learn every part of this song. It's really effective. Yeah, there's a lot of moments where things drop out and harmonies move stepwise and there's literally every measure something potent is happening to keep pulling you forward. Form wise is fascinating because you have this big chorus come in and then there's a sudden Danuma and everything drops down and then they add in this quasi-anthemic post-chorus that has this sort of like fists in the air excitement but it's

also kind of delicate yeah it's constrained. It's constrained. everything is held back, which makes so much sense because the song is about sobriety. Very good. Very nice, Charlie. But texturally, it's top quality, pristine music production in a studio, which doesn't really seem to fit a country aesthetic. Right. I mean, once again, I think we're asking ourselves more and more, what is actually the country aesthetic today? It might not look.

I mean, you've done a great job of avoiding my question, by the way. What was your question? Tambor, are we hearing that southern country voice here? Hardly. Yeah. There's a deep emotional quality to it, but that's ubiquitous in pop music. Okay. But I am not getting a, yeah.

Ooh. No, I don't know what that is. Cut that out. What is that? We're going to cut that out. Keep that in. This is my vocal audition for American Idol. Okay.

One more, Charles. Yeah. All right. Our final entry in this great drinking trilogy here. another song from the top 100. This one is Tequila by Dan and Shea. I can still shut down the party. I can hang with anybody.

Okay, I now have a hangover. Another modern country song, another bug-eyed, classic Charlie expression. What are you feeling now, Chuck? Well, first of all, no one should mix those alcohols. That sounds terrible. That's obviously what he's going for, but that's the worst idea ever. The first thing I heard was this chord progression. We've talked about these core progressions before, and they aren't from country.

I think we've called it an ambiguous chord progression in which the home key is not really clear. There's kind of we're moving between major and minor tonalities, and it's really less about having a clear home in a way, attention or release sort of thing, but rather this open, ambiguous space. And that is ubiquitous in dance music and hip hop. And it's not common in... Well, it's actually kind of... It's everywhere. Let's throw out a couple examples. We can hear it, for instance, in Adele's Hello, an ambiguous four-cord loop.

Hello. It's me. I was wondering if after all these years you'd like to me. Or Justin Bieber's, what do you mean? Yeah. Another ambiguous four-cord loop, yeah. played on piano. This is a writing technique and a texture,

which I would expect in the pop world. It does have this nice quality of giving room for things to breathe. I kind of think about it. I'm not as good of a classical scholar as you are, but it feels like the bridge from classical music into romantic music in which there was less an emphasis on cadential movement and more an opening for harmonic texture.

that don't have to go in a particular direction, that leave room for interpretation. You are looking at me with deep skepticism. No, no, actually, you know that's not half bad, Charles. Oh, thanks. That's a solid B plus for sure. Yeah. All right.

Pass your class. Let's do the same thing with tequila by Dan and Shea that we did with Drunk Me by Mitchell Tan Penny. Okay. And drowns the whiskey by Jason Aldeen. Let's get to the course of the song and ask ourselves, what, if anything, makes this a country song? Yeah, okay, great.

I taste tequila in the last one you wore when we were sky high and cut lips pressed against. Baby I'd never leave it. I remember how bad I taste tequila. You talked about the post chorus in the last song we listened to. Check out this post chorus. Is this Toto? Blowing my mind. Well, you know, it's funny you say that because when we were listening to the very first song, Jason Aldean,

drowns the whiskey, I was like, wow, these drums sound so programmed to me. And then I went on YouTube and just thought maybe by some chance, I can find something else more about this. And the session drummer for this song, Rich Redmond, has uploaded a video of him tracking this song. No way. And let's listen to a little bit of it. He is not a drum machine. He is just like a human metronome, just playing this steady beat through the whole thing. So that's all from a live drumming session.

Shout out to Rich Redmond, the drummer there. Because he sounds like a drum machine. Well, I was saying one of the things that modern country does is it is all about perfect production quality. Right. There's no imperfections. Every measure is measured. Yeah. And these session musicians are real pros.

So good. It's really, it's worth checking out some of these videos. It's really fun to watch. Okay, but let's return to Tequila. You're hearing echoes of Toto. you're hearing program drums. Yeah. And once again, such a crucial question for me is this one of timbre.

Are we hearing that twang, those harmonies? Not really. Like, the only thing we're getting here is now when you're hearing a song about tequila and the memories that it brings up and how we need to stop drinking tequila, you're like, oh, okay, this is a country song because... Some of the imagery, the specificity of it, the conversationality of it. But this whole conversation is making me realize the absolute absurdity. of assuming that people listen idiosyncrasically to single genres

and that producers and songwriters work only in single genres. Right. There's so much bleed. And now we're at the end and sort of the meta wrap up. And we're actually, I think at this point, we can go back to sicko mode. Because what we're really asking ourselves here, what are the limits of genre? What are the limits of tradition? And how do you push against those?

And whether we accept changes in these genres, it's as much about the music itself as the identity that those genres create. So what's at stake here when we lose that southern twang? In some ways, musically, you just can shrug. I don't know. If it's a good song, it's a good song. Right, right. But of course, there's so much more embedded in that twang than just a sound.

Oh my gosh. There's a history. There's a tradition. There's an identity. Right. So I think we're at this really interesting moment that honestly I might not have been aware of where country is changing. And I think we're going to see some reactions both positive and negative to that.

It's sobering up. It's so, wow. Wow. Great. Just to be clear on my sort of my own perspective, there are parts of country music that need some sobering up. No doubt. Yeah.

No doubt. Well said, that's a great button to end on. I think, Charles, it's been really fun digging into sicko mode and this drunk country trilogy. You're about nine, man. Yeah. There's a lot to impact. Just you can learn so much.

so much about our world by just checking out the top 100 Billboard charts. Yeah, there's absolutely. It's really taking the pulse of where we're at. Switched on pop is produced by me, Nate Sloan. And me, Charlie Harding. We're edited, as always, by the incredibly talented Bill, Lance, go mudhens. Our community manager is Sarah Terry and our design is by Luke Harris. You can find more episodes of our show on the Apple podcast app, Spotify, or any podcast player you prefer. I have to make a plea. Oh, a plea. We've talked about throwing up ratings on Apple. Yeah. It really does meaningfully help the show. We have a lot of ratings.

Yeah. But I figured out that it's like less than 1% of listeners have left a rating yet. So if you feel like you might not be in that 1% of folks who've left a rating, it would mean a whole lot to us. If you left us some feedback and even just a little star, whether you like it or not, it means a lot to us. Wow, are you my Jewish mother, Charlie? Because that was quite a guilt trip. But yeah, yeah, I agree. we'll be back in two weeks with another episode till then thanks for listening thanks for listening