Switched on Pop - Summer Hits: BTS - Butter (with Jenna Andrews)

Episode Date: June 29, 2021

In summer 2020, BTS released “Dynamite,” their first single recorded entirely in English. The song shot up the charts, became one of the most successful YouTube videos in history, and won over pop radio, which had stubbornly refused to play their songs in Korean. Now, in summer 2021, BTS have topped themselves again with “Butter,” yet another English-language bop that melts like … well, you get it. BTS member Jimin told Variety that they wanted to make an “easy-listening,” fun song, and it arrived as a much-needed distraction from the interminable global pandemic. With everyone constrained by travel restrictions, the song was written over WhatsApp, a collaboration achieved via text and voice notes sent between South Korea and the U.S. Jenna Andrews, one of the songwriters, says the track went through at least 50 rewrites to reach perfection. The final single is a tightly produced, less than three-minute song in which every moment is a hook. It shifts nostalgically from ’80s Prince to ’90s Michael Jackson through 2000s EDM, each second highlighting BTS’s musical savvy and distinctive vocal performance. In our kick-off episode of Switched on Pop’s Summer Hits series, Andrews spoke about how she worked with BTS to craft this song remotely and map out every throwback reference. In the second half of the episode, we speak with Bora, a prominent BTS translator who presents the case for why we should hear “Butter” as the first step down the BTS rabbit hole, especially into their Korean-language discovery. Songs Discussed BTS - Butter, Dynamite, Silver Spoon, Dope, Dis-ease Michael Jackson - Smooth Criminal, Rock With You, Man In The Mirror, Remember The Time, Bad  Usher - “U Got It Bad” Daft Punk - Harder Better Faster Stronger More Bora’s BTS Rabbit Hole Playlist ARMY translators' lyric translations:  doolset lyrics – BTS Lyrics in English BTS TRANSLATIONS – (do you, bangtan / do you bangtan?) Lyrics — BTS-TRANS/BANGTANSUBS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Euporia of Calvin Klein, the new collection elixir. Three new elixires perfume intense. Solar, Magnetic, BOL. Pulsed in the banner, do you quiz, and discover your fragrance euphoria. Welcome to Switchdown Pop. I'm a songwriter Charlie Harding. And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan.

This is a very exciting summer for us. And it's all possible via JBL, who are hooking us up with the gear that we need to record on the go, as Nate and I both visit friends and family for the first time in a very long time. And to kick off this season of summer songs and our new segment making of a summer hit, we've got to listen to BTS's Butter.

At last. So butter, so butter at this moment, might just be the biggest. might just be the biggest single song. It has broken seemingly every record that BTS has already broken. It's their biggest debut ever. It's destroying YouTube numbers. It might even be breaking the idea of breaking records itself. It's currently BTS's longest running number one song on Billboard's Hot 100.

Right. But is it popular? It's immensely popular. And to highlight why, I think we should just do a close listen. and see what is making us wiggle and move. I am deeply down. So let's start right from the top. So the first thing I notice is this is a song

pulling on so many different generational references, and that opening drumbeat for me just feels like the opening of like an 80s prince sort of song. It's very emphatic. It's like one, two, three, four. It's almost like a march or something. And there's the way that the drums just hit. They're really sharp.

They hit hard. They're simple, but they're great. And when we move into the next section of the song, we go right into the 90s. I don't know about you, but this is for me, just like pure 90s Michael Jackson. I love how they kind of switch the feel and the musical reference of each section. It's really fitting for a band that has seven members. It's like each one of these sections gets to highlight a different member, a different personality. It's really this kaleidoscopic kind of approach to song.

And then just seconds later, we're moving from this sort of 90s feel into something which feels very contemporary drawing from the sort of EDM, maybe some future house. Yeah, these like pulsing synthesizers feel super contemporary. It's another moment where you can hear BTS bringing all these decades together. And they do something else really interesting right out of the gate with the song. Because in order to illustrate the idea that they're smooth like butter, they actually start on a very unsmooth kind of pitch, a very tense pitch. It's the minor seventh of the key. It's very like kind of crunchy and full of tension.

smooth. A little jazzy. It's like, I mean, the key here is A flat. And then the note we start on is here. Duh. Like if we sung those at the same time, duh. That gives you a like, oh, I don't like that dissonance.

But then they go down and resolve it. Smooth like butter. And by the time we finish that phrase butter, we've like landed on the third. Smooth like butter. And it's like really, really smooth and really satisfying. So just from like the very first line in the subtle way they're like literally illustrating how smooth they are as they smooth out these dissonant pitches into consonant ones.

Man, that is so fun. I think it's easy to sort of say, Nate, Charlie, stop over analyzing something which is just fun. You know, like the band member of Tiamen told variety. that if you hear the title butter, you know immediately that we try to prepare a song that's easy listening instead of something with a really heavy or profound message. And yet, I love getting into things that are just fun. Like, it's fun for us to do this. And I think the timing is right for this summer. As more people are getting the vaccine and able to participate in society again, we don't necessarily want something super heavy. But just because it's a fun song,

doesn't mean that we can't have a lot of fun listening closely to it. And so I thought, wouldn't it be awesome if we could speak with one of the songwriters behind Butter? I actually got to speak with Jenna Andrews, who's one of the co-writers, and she also vocal produced on BTS's previous hit Dynamite. Sweet. I know, it's very exciting. And one thing that surprised me about Butter is the immense amount of work that went into making just a fun song and how much intention they had in all of the musical choices and even the decision to keep it light. The intention coming out of quarantine in such a, you know, obviously a dark time for a lot of people. I was like, what, how cool to have a summer song that it can just make people feel happy,

you know? For Jenna, making people feel happy started out just as a little melody idea that a producer had sent to her and she believed this one little nugget of an idea could be a hit. I was like, this would be perfect for BTS. Played it for a couple other people. They did not agree. They were like, eh, it's fine. I'm like, trust me, it is amazing. It's so great. Okay, so now Jenna has to prove herself. She goes to her co-writer Ron Perry, who pushes her to take that hook and just take it over the top so that it could be a strong follow-up to dynamite. Ron was like, okay, now you guys have to find like an amazing concept to match how great this melody is. Here, actually, Jenna gets so excited talking about this melody that she starts pounding

her nails on the table, which are, of course, decorated with little buttery. They're really nice. The moment of magic when we were like, okay, we have something was when Ron was like, I want something like smooth criminal. So I'm just saying like smooth like butter like criminal undercover. When he said that, I literally just saying that and that's what happened. I love that. Also weird because I happen to also have nails with little butter icons on them too.

but it's such a shame that we're not together right now. I want to see these. I don't know if you can handle it, check. Okay, back to Jenna. Her challenge is that she has to go from this moment of inspiration, smooth like butter, this melody, and then share it with BTS and develop it together as a song. The problem is that the song was written in the peak of the pandemic, and they obviously couldn't be in the same place.

I was working out of my garage. A lot of times, like, I do vocal produce on Zoom, but for dynamite and for butter, I did a lot of it over WhatsApp. It was our only way of communication. So she's working from her garage in New Jersey and sending voice notes to her other songwriters and BTS and Seoul. And they collaborate in this way

with everyone singing ideas into their phones and texting about what works all through translation. I recorded a lot of the harmonies and the adlips and stuff and I would send them, hey, do you like this part or do you like this part?

And they'd be like, we like this, we don't like this. And then obviously the stuff they liked, they would cut and we did it that way. And it went back and forth like this almost endlessly. In fact, I asked Jenna how many voice notes it took to make this song. Honestly, there was so many different, like, voice.

I mean, I would probably, like, have 300. No, really. She pulled up her phone for me and just, like, kept scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. And I was blown away how much effort went into making a two-minute and 44-second fun summer song. I can tell you that we did probably around 50 rewrites. Yeah. I love that insight because it reveals how. how to create something that sounds totally effortless and like it just came off the top of your head,

you have to laboriously like try every idea and every iteration until you get just the right kind of summer levity. Totally. And you can hear it and how the production in the song is smoothed out. There is not one section of lull. Every little moment is filled in. And the challenge is how do you go from a moment of inspiration into this built out project? For Jenna, it was all about taking that initial idea and going deeper into the Michael Jackson illusions.

What immediately went through my mind was like, okay, this would be really cool to give a nod to all the 90s references. A bunch of stuff that's going to make people feel nostalgic. So they run with the Michael Jackson idea and sprinkle his sound throughout in all of these passing references. The rock with me, obviously rock with you. It's like, you know, similar. I feel like that was, but it makes you think of that era, you know, and I feel like it makes you think of Michael, even with like in the pre-chorus when it's like, when I look in the mirror. It's like just tiny little references that I feel like people might recognize.

One of the subtler references like Hot while listening to the instrumental version of the song includes all these vocal adlives, which are very MJ to me. You know what I'm talking about? Oh yeah. Shimon! Yeah. Exactly. And so I asked Jenna if this was.

was an intentional nod. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course that's intentional. I mean, in this, but it's like, it's not even like intentional in the sense that like, hey, let's add those parts because it's nostalgic. It just felt very, like it just, it's just felt right to do it that way. You know what I mean?

It's like, it's like, that's what the song deserved in terms of the performance. You know, hearing Jenna talk about this makes me think about how Michael Jackson as an individual has such a tough and complicated legacy. but at the same time, you know, his musical innovations are like an indelible part of the fabric of popular music. And, you know, whatever we think of him, however maybe disturbed or upset we are by him, like, when we hear those sounds, I don't know about you, I can't help but feel that sense of nostalgia and like honestly familiarity that I can't deny. And, you know, it's not the only reference that is bringing about nostalgia in this song. Michael's not the only inspiration. Butter kind of plays like this great 90s

playlist of references because they wanted the song to reach the broadest audience possible. That's why the usher, I thought of the usher line. Don't need no usher. Don't need no usher. To remind me you can it bad. Yeah.

You remind me of a girl. I was like, oh, that'd be so cool because I was like, so many people will be able to, you know, feel like that reminds them of their childhood. Yeah, hearing Jenna talk about these references, it's like I'm just moving back and back in time to my middle school dance floor. And it's starting to make me understand why I dig this song so much. This is great. You know, one of the parts that really takes me into my nostalgic moment is Ron Perry, one of Jenna's co-writers on the song.

He even threw in some talk box as an homage to Daft Punk, who of course recently disbanded after 28 years and are like, you know, my dance party heroes. You know what I'm talking about like very hard or better, faster, stronger. Yep. And if you're playing Charlie Bingo at home, you know, just cross out that daft punk square. Got to mention in every episode, Chuck. I'm sorry. I know.

It's great. I never will be sorry to hear a talk box in the middle of a number one pop hit. There's just so much fun stuff here. There's, of course, even a nod to the BTS's fandom called Army. I'm sure there's all kinds of other BTS references I'm missing that others will find. But something that struck me about the song is that as big as the song gets in the chorus, it's actually sprinkled with space. Lots of instrumental silences where the voices really stand out.

I asked Jenna, what's up with all that blank space? One of the reasons why I feel like we chose to do that is because they are amazing singers and I feel like this was a great opportunity to see just how great they are. The verse, it's basically just the drum in their voice. It's pretty crazy. Beyond obviously just their collaboration and vocal performances,

I was thinking about what makes this song distinctly BTS. And the one thing that kept coming back to me was what we were talking about at the beginning of our conversation, that they have this amazing way of bridging musical styles, not just song by song, but even like section by section. So I ran my theory about the like 80s, Prince, 90s, MJ and 2000s EDM by Jenna and she loved it. So we're crossing generations in the musical Sonic Soundspace and the lyrics. Love it. When I was speaking with Jenna, it was just days after the release of Butter and she was totally vibing off the energy. But when I

asked her about where her head was at, she brought it all back to the group. I feel very grateful to be a part of this journey with with bt s it was like the nail stopped clacking on the table she's just like this was a moment it's a summer moment you know the thing is i really love this song but here's the funny thing that in the btss fandom it's both celebrated for breaking records and for its obvious fun summer bob qualities but some people are also bothered that their biggest radio hits are their singles in english when bt s have such a deep repertoire There's actually this meme that captures this idea perfectly. I want to show it to you.

Here's an image from Purple Soldier on Twitter. So can you describe to me what you're saying? Okay, I'm looking at this cartoon. It's like a Trojan horse in front of a castle. Right. And the head of the Trojan horse has this text, Fun Summer bop in English. The Trojan horse is being brought in by BTS and Army.

And it's being met at the door by people who didn't want to give BTS a chance because it wasn't in English. And inside of the Trojan horse, the secret that they're smuggling in is a rich, varied, and top-tier discography in Korean. How'd I do? Perfectly. And it turns out that you and I are really slow to pick up on this meme. That meme has been around since Dynamite. I'm Bora.

I'm a huge BTS fan. I'm what you call a transator. Bora is a very well-known figure in the BTS fandom for her prolific. contributions to translating everything BTS related. And she explained to me that she hopes that songs like butter help listeners like you and me go much deeper.

People who may not have known who BTS was or have never ever listened to their music. They listen to dynamite and then say, hmm, what else do they have out there? And, you know, we call that falling into the rabbit hole. They just dive in and they just never come out.

I wanted to invite Bora onto the show, not just to open up the Trojan Horse, but also because she's been one of our chief critics of the show, appropriately calling us out for our lackluster coverage of BTS, especially their music and lyrics in comparison to other pop acts that we cover. So when we come back, Bor is going to take us down the BTS rabbit hole. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it.

What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova, and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay. Ready? Ready.

Do not sugarcoat something for me. No. No. No. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the path. and being unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us.

New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. I thought what we could do together is open up that Trojan horse. Awesome. You've selected a whole playlist of music that you think our listeners should listen to. We're going to listen to three songs today. Cool. We'll share the entire playlist afterwards. Awesome.

And I just want to say that choosing that playlist was really hard. And I try to focus it more because, you know, it's the summer and butter is kind of like the song of the summer. Right. So I wanted to go for more like hype songs. So this is the primarily Korean lyric alternative to butter, song of summer, playlist of great BTS songs. Okay. The first song that you brought us is off of their 2020 record B, which dynamite was also on. The song is called Dizzy's.

Disease with a hyphen, dis hyphen ease. And that's important. Yeah, so this song clearly has multiple meanings. Yes. Let's start with the opening where Jay Hope is opens the song. But immediately I am drawn into the way in which he uses flow and timbre where each word has not just a different emphasis, but a different sound to that emphasis that clearly is making some kind of comment that, I'm not able to discern.

Help me out. Right. So the entire B album was written and made during the pandemic. Right. The entire album is kind of expressing the discomfort, the anxiety, the nervousness, the sort of about like the uncertainty of the future. And this song is perfect. The song, it's talking not only about disease, like an illness that we may feel, but like the hyphen ease is talking about the unease at rural feeling during this pandemic. And actually the Korean title is called Pyong, which has two meanings.

One is a bottle, and the other is illness. And so there's that kind of wordplay as well. So it's like feeling bottled up, like constrained and the concern of, okay, yeah, as well. And is there a lyric here in this opening bit that you wanted to highlight? So in the opening, he's basically saying, and this is Tulsa Panktan's translation, we call her the queen of the lyrics. I feel like I miss something with a sip of coffee I swallowed down my uneasiness

an endless rest the uncomfortable happiness that has come to me suddenly 24 hours I have so much time even if I sleep all day there's no problem now it feels like I should be doing something to the point where my body shatters

but I'm just a bastard who eats all three meals a day which is like you know all of us sort of had like this busy lifestyle before the pandemic and we're all stressed about working so much but now that we don't have that work or not going out and working,

we also feel that pressure of like, hey, I should be doing something right now. I should be working, but what am I doing? And that kind of uncomfortable feelings. And this song is kind of like a perfect exhibit of that. The song seems to have this contrast in it where musically it's very laid back. It feels really comforting.

but the whole thing is about discomfort disease, and the lyrics are quite heavy. A lot of BTS's songs are that way, where they're absolute bops, but if you actually take the time to go through the lyric translations, a lot of them are very heavy subjects. They talk a lot about mental health. They talk a lot about anxiety.

A lot of their songs, especially their earlier ones, have to do with social political commentary. You're sort of drawn into the sound, but once you get into the music and the lyrics and their messages, it does have a multilater meaning to it. Speaking of their earlier work and making commentary, you also brought us the song Silver Spoon. When it comes to the spoon theory, that's actually in Korea,

where they have four different types of spoons to describe your socioeconomic status. There's dirt spoons, there's bronze spoons, silver spoons, and gold spoons, with gold spoons being the wealthiest. And the English title Silver Spoon is kind of based on being born with a silver spoon in your mouth. So that's kind of why they use the English title that way.

It's funny because not only this is a song about their criticism about the older generations and them not acknowledging that they had a factor in why millennials and the younger generations aren't quote-unquote doing as well as they are, but BTS themselves were known as the dirt spoons of the music industry because they came. from a very, very small company in an industry that was dominated by artists from three major companies in Korea. They basically

really crawl their way up and gained more and more fans as they release more and more albums. From 2013 to, I would say, like, around 2015, BTS was relatively not that popular in Korea. They were actually more popular abroad,

and the more overseas success they got, the more the Korean general public and the media started to pay attention to them. How are we hearing their commentary on both their own class position and class theory more generally within Silver Spoon? So the lyrics are really about like this current generation's lack of financial stability. And this song came out in 2015. It was pretty relatable then. It's pretty relatable now. I think for anyone who's a millennial or maybe even younger, they kind of understand like when the so-called boomers are kind of like, oh, you just need to work harder.

you just need to do more of this. And we're all kind of like staring at them like, no, that's not it. Like you guys made this environment for us. You have to, you know, sort of acknowledge that and own up to it. Like we can't afford a house. People are not getting married in Korea. They're not having kids. They are having trouble buying a house.

And all of that is because of the conditions that the older generations had set. The lyrics that we listen to where he's saying, at a part-time job, it's all for experience. You know, what they're saying is we're doing all these jobs. We're not getting paid for them because we're told to do passion pay. And passion pay in Korea is like a specific term. It's when companies are basically exploiting labor from young people where it's like, oh, you can gain experience, but we're not going to pay you. Oh, the classic unpaid internship.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And everybody relates to it, right? Like they're saying, oh, you're so lucky you got this internship. You're going to gain all of this experience. but you're not going to make any money from it.

And because you're not making money from it, you're not going to be able to, you know, get a house or buy a house or get married and have kids. Right. There are multiple metaphors here about class. There's the spoon theory, but there's also this very curious translation about a series of birds that I honestly don't totally understand.

Yeah. Can you share this with me? Yeah. So Pepsate, the title, is based on this Korean proverb. saying pepsi's hongseh that's which basically means if a crow tit

or parapel depending on which terminology you want to use type of bird Yeah it's a type of bird tries to walk like a stork it will rip their crotch or like split their legs

Yeah It's basically describing someone who like goes beyond their capacity like tries too hard and they're just going to like go past their limits The proverb is basically saying Stay in your lane

So then how are they playing off of this pro verb? So basically here, BTS is the pro tit, the bird with the stubby legs. And they're basically overworking themselves to take over the storks, right? Like I said, they were dirt spoons trying to make it in an industry who was basically telling them, no, we don't want you, you're never going to succeed. And they made it that way. And they're also, this song was written in 2015, where they were quite young in their 20, early, very early 20s, some in their genes.

And they're saying, like, we are working our asses off and we are going to succeed as well. So, you know. But it seems to be there's almost even commentary to hear about, like, burnout culture. Like, sure, you can take unpaid internships and work forever. But the reality is, like, if you work too hard, like, you might actually just, like, fall flat on your face. Exactly. From exhaustion. But we're going to try.

I feel like that message is realized in the third song that you brought us called dope. Yeah, or Jada. Arms flow is amazing. Incredible. One of the greatest rappers and lyricists ever. I don't even know what I'm experiencing. I mean, I do know what I'm experiencing. I'm feeling like high energy, confidence, but also some angst.

Like, I'm hearing that, but I don't know exactly what I'm hearing. Right. So the lyrics, I specifically wanted to sort of highlight these lyrics because I think it really relates to what we talked about class theory and, like, the criticism on socioeconomic. in Korea, but also the world. So here, RM is singing about Sanpo generation, Opo generation. Then since I like beef jerky, let me be yukpo generation.

I don't know what you're saying. Right. So Sanpo generation, 3 has to do with the number 3. O has to do with the number 5 and yuk has to do with the number 6. And these are all essentials that basically the generations are giving up. So Sanpo Sadei is a term that was given by the

Korean media to younger generations. that they're the generation that gave up the three essentials, which are relationships, marriage, and kids. And then they made up this other term, Opo-Sheadé, or five-essential generation, because they gave up five essentials of life, which is the relationships, marriage, kids, but now we're adding housing and a social life because they're just too busy working and trying to make it and survive. You don't even have the five essentials. You don't even have the five essentials. RM is saying, oh, we're actually the Yuk post-ati, which is the six essentials.

We're not only giving up relationships, you know, a family, marriage, and kids, and housing and social lives, but we're also giving up our dreams. The beef jerky line, I think people get a little bit confused about. Yeah, because you can also mean six, but with Korean, there's always multiple meanings. So you also mean beef. Yeah. So there's like this really, you know, kind of clever. wordplay there since I like beef jerky are you going to call me you post heading now? Oh, I see.

Okay. Yeah. Whoa. All right. I would, yeah. When I read the lyric translation without the additional commentary, I was like, beef jerky, I had no idea what he's talking about. Yeah.

So I know big hit music, which is their label. This was one of their title tracks that they released a music video for. And it's actually one of the, I think this music video was one where it sort of brought a lot of Western YouTubers and Western, like there are a ton of reaction videos because it has really intricate choreography. It's a great music video. And, you know, like the brass sounds and are fantastic. And so when you turn the subtitles on and you see the subtitles, people really don't understand what they're saying. And that's why if you become a fan, like, you really have to go like take that extra step and go deeper into the lyrics and understand all of this context.

And so the song here is unpacking this idea that the current generation isn't able to provide the basics of life. And BTS are a stand-in for people because even at this point, this is 2015, so they're still part of this. This is like their global rise, but they're still the underdog. And so fans are seeing their perspective within this group who are iconic classic within the larger, K-pop music industry. Mm-hmm. That's right. That's exactly it.

I mean, this song is such a hype song. And again, like, you're listening to it, you're like bopping your head. You may not know what the lyrics are saying. But once you actually read the lyrics, it's like, you know, a totally different, like, you know, a message in that. layers of meaning for sure. Okay, so if people want to go and get deeper into finding places to experience the cultural context of translation, where should they go? We are really blessed as a fandom where we have a multitude of translators who are fantastic at lyric translations. The ones that I've been reading are from the Queen of Lyrics,

Tulset Pangtan. She has her own blog where she's basically translated every single song that they've ever released. Another one is two years. Yu Bangtan, Army Salon. Yeah, there are a few. And Bangtan trans who have been translating since 2013. So there are a lot of translators. So this is like people who are really into the classics, it's like you can't read just one translation of the Iliad. You have to read a couple of them because there's many different takes on it.

Yeah. And also with translations, every translator has their own style. I have my style. You know, the Doolset has her own. Wisha has her own. And it's always great to read more than two just because, whatever I think is more important, they might not think it's important, or they might think a different thing is important, or they might interpret it a little bit differently. So it's always

best to read multiple translations to have like a very full understanding of what the lyrics are. And I will also plug genius here because I think genius has also been doing a good job recently. Their genius Korea team, you know, shout out to Mikey. They've really been working hard and making sure the translations are more nuanced than than previous times. And also to make sure that they allow people to write annotations and stuff where they're explaining the context and nuance. Those are all great resources. In addition to these three songs that we've listened to together, Disee, Silver Spoon, and Dope, you've put together a whole list of songs you think people got to dive into.

It's more than 10. I was wrong. I have 15 songs. Butters at the top because that's the Trojan Horse. Right. 14 other songs. So we'll post all of the resources to the translations. as well as your playlist in our show notes and on our website.

Perfect. Bora, it is so much fun speaking with you. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Switch on Pop is produced by Nate Sloan, Megan Lubin, and me, Charlie Harding. Our editor is Julie Myers. We're engineered by Brandon McFarland, illustrations by Iris Gottlieb, social media by Abby Barr, and executive producers are Nashak Kerwa and Hanna Rosen, were a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network,

and a production of Vulture. Big ups to JBL for making our summer. series possible, and you can find more episodes both in our Making a Summer hit series. You can find it all on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, basically anywhere you get podcasts, including our website, switchedonpop.com. You can get us on social media at Switched On Pop, and though we usually drop new episodes on Tuesday, this week will actually be doing a special release on Friday. We're chatting with Lucy Dacus, one of my favorite songwriters right now about her new record home video so check that out on Friday and until then thanks for listening