Switched on Pop - Taylor Swift has "evermore" of a good thing

Episode Date: December 15, 2020

Just five months after releasing her Grammy-nominated album “folklore,” Taylor Swift surprised fans with a continuation of sorts — her ninth studio album “evermore.” Working with many of her “folklore” collaborators, Swift says that the team “couldn’t stop writing songs.” Like its sister album, “evermore” shies away from over-the-top pop production, and leans into Swift’s craft. Stripped of the highly produced synth layers from her “Lover” and “Reputation” era, Swift’s lyrics and vocal performance shine in their unvarnished restraint. On this hour-long album, Swift shows her ingenuity with the building blocks of songwriting, giving us more of her signature Swiftian strengths: Lyrics, melody and story.  More Read "Figure It Out: The Linguistic Turn in Country Music" by Jimmie N. Rogers and Miller Williams in Country Music Annual 2000 Listen to Jenny Owen Youngs album Night Shift for more rubber bridge guitar and great songs Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. There's not a lot of things that would pull my collaborator, Nate Sloan, out of paternity leave for an emergency recording. However, Nate, something important has happened. Charlie, I'm here. Just five months ago, Taylor Swift shined the Swift signal at the moon and announced that she dropped a new El album in quarantine makes this record folklore. Surprise, she's done it again. She's created a sister album.

Your mom's ringing in your pocket, my picture in your wallet. And I kid you not. I think this is the most requested piece that our listeners have asked for. So here we are. A few things could draw me from the bliss of being a newborn parent, but Taylor Swift dropping an album supersedes everything. So I'm here. I'm ready to listen and overanalyze. Let's do this. Welcome to Switchdown Pop. I'm a songwriter Charlie Harding. And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. All right, Evermore, our task, is it Evermore or an afterthought?

That's what we're going to try to look at, because here's the thing, is like, someone puts out an album, you kind of expect the next album to be an evolution of that material. And yet Taylor has done something fairly original. Just continued the writing process, continued that sort of same project, same collaborators primarily with Aaron Destner of the National. her partner, Joseph Alwyn, under the pseudonym William Bowery, Justin Vernon of Bonifere and Jack Antonoff, and a handful of other collaborators have come together. According to them, they just couldn't stop writing songs, right? And so we need to take a listen to them and figure out, yeah,

how does this project stack up? Be honest with me. What was your impression when you first listened to the album? Were you, like, listening in the background with a kid going on? Yeah, I don't know if it had my undivided attention, and it kind of felt like folklore, Part two. It was lovely.

It was wonderful, but it wasn't melting my brain like folklore did back in July. Similarly, I was listening in the background and had a initial first impression that's like, oh, yeah, the sonic territory of this thing feels familiar. And I've seen a lot of writing where critics are saying, well, this is just more of the same. I think that as a sort of first reaction doesn't do this album justice. Because when I took a deeper listen, I realized. there's a whole lot more there. And yes, the more that you say, the less I know, wherever you stray a follow. I'm begging for you to take my hand, wrecked my plans, that's my man. Life was a blue when it been right.

And yes, some of the instrumentation, the sort of folkiness of the previous record is here as well. But this is really an album about songs. This is a project about songs. and frankly, I really like a bunch of songs here. That's awesome. I'm ready to plumb the depths and turn this afterthought into the main focus. If we take the 30,000 foot view of the music here, it's a really curious project because you have silly songs, songs like Dorothea. Hey, Dorothea, do you ever stop and think about money making a lark of misery? Which is basically like a makeup note to an old school friend that she's fallen out of touch with.

And it's a little goofy. And we even get some of that playground game sort of rhymes that she does in songs like me. And I fell from the pedestal right down the rabbit hole. Long story short, it was a bad time. We have allusions to Alice in Wonderland going down the rabbit hole. And we actually get some real nursery rhymes like she's done in me and shake it off. On the song, Champagne Problems, we get one for the money, two for the show. One for the money, two for the show.

I never was ready, so I watch you go. So there's a lot of sort of childhood nostalgia, some really sort of fun, silly work. There are songs that are often about characters that she's making up. Then we have very personal songs as well, some very serious songs. Songs like Coney Island. It's melchreke my soul into Looking for you but you're right here If I can't relate to you

Any more than who am I related to It's melancholic and nostalgic She's written this with the national Who are sort of known for that exact sound I think when we listen closely though What we're going to find is that This is in many ways Yes a continuation of folklore

But what Taylor does on this record is synthesizes her country early period Tennessee Taylor her pop middle period New York Taylor and her introspective later period L.A. Taylor Yes, she takes all of her

songwriting skills from all those places and phases of her career and combines them together in Evermore. We're going to hear Tennessee Taylor lyricism a bunch of pop instrumentation and all of it subdued in this very sort of fulky production because this is all about highlighting songs. And I think the first song that we should listen to

is the opening track and single off the album, Willow. The more that you say, the less I know, wherever you stray, I follow. I'm begging for you to take my hand, wreck my plants, that's my man. I mean, I'm picking up on what you were saying earlier. It's like this feels like a right. record about songs, about songwriting.

Yeah. It's interesting because I feel like whenever Taylor Swift releases a new album, everyone rushes to try and kind of decode the meaning the Easter eggs. Totally. What is this? Who is this about? What is she trying to say? What's the secret meaning of this line of this word?

But it's like this album is such a clear indication of the opposite that this is like a testament to creation and to make believe and to imagination and to this skill. of songwriting and like the first line of this second verse Life was a willow and it bent right to your wind Life was a willow and it bent right to your wind Is like, who yeah I mean first of all it's a beautiful image And a compelling metaphor right But then also the kind of scantion of it the declamation

the way it starts with that life that's kind of soft L and then right in the middle you get that hard bend and then the soft wind again it's like very omnipoetic This is the Tennessee Taylor right This is like that is that country metaphor There's some more direct Tennessee Taylor things that we'll hear But for me this is as you as you put This is about songwriting and certainly there are Easter eggs

She's brilliant at placing puzzles in her music. And if that's what you want to do, cool. Go find them. Figure out what songs about who. See how it's all interrelated. But this is a piece where, yeah, the music just immediately jumped out for me. As I was saying earlier, this is not any one genre. It really feels like her merging all of the things that she knows how to do.

So we have the lyricism. But we also have some very clear pop sensibility to the song, right? supporting this wonderful declamation that you pointed to, the way that she places her words in the meter, there are these very pop syncopated drums. And I think a lot of folks might think, hey, this is a folk record. But a folk record is usually going to have pretty straight rhythms.

Her rhythms here are danceable, right? This is almost a Caribbean beat. And you can even catch some of that in the sort of a marimba-like quality and the instrumentation. Yeah, we've got that prototypical reggaeton. Boom, chip, boom, chip, boom, chip, boom, chip, boom, chip, boom, chip. Exactly.

Part of what we get when we are listening to Evermore plus folklore is, yeah, there's some fokey elements, but really what this is, is about taking the elements of pop and then really kind of putting them in the background, right? The percussion here is very me. It's not in your face. I'm like the water when your ship rolled in that night. It's definitely recessed. Willow's not the only song borrowing from pop.

We can hear pop electronics in the song Marjorie. And if I didn't know better, I think you were talking to me now. We can hear skittering high hats and tolerate it. All throughout the All throughout the album There are, again, in the background, kind of behind everything else, behind her voice, because her voice and her lyrics ought to be centered. That's what this album is about.

We still have the skeleton of a pop song. And then she takes all of this pop production, and she pairs it with these more foxy elements. She's kind of riding this indie wave that's happening. And one of the instruments really gives this away for me. When we listen to the beginning of Willow, we get these really lovely sort of muted guitars. This is a increasingly popular sound in the world of indie folk poppy stuff, right? We hear very similar sounds on Phoebe Bridgers, album Punisher.

Her producer, Ethan Grisca, is known for using these guitars. that have these muted rubber bridges that make them almost sound like almost like a banjo-like quality. People like Blake Mills use it as well. Our friend Jenny Owen Young's plays with these as well. Jeff Tweedy from Wilco.

Chuck, can you elucidate a little more the differences in these guitar tones that you're talking about? A typical guitar is going to sound like this. It's going to ring open and bright. And then when you do this sort of rubber bridge method, you can hear it's muted and as I was saying it has this like banjo quality

it's very plucky and it's good for adding a great percussive element which we're getting in Willow even though it's acoustic guitar it's acting not unlike even you know EDM plucks whoa you could even

associate it in the same world of something like Shape of View by Ed Shearren it's got that same plucky quality but moving from EDM into indie folk so with Willow we've got beautiful lyrics We've got that pop production hiding behind the vocal, and we have these indie folk sounds. And that's what we're going to get through a lot of the rest of this album.

And to take us into our next song, I actually want to have Taylor cue us up with one of my favorite lines from Willow. Taylor's not above putting a meme in even a very serious song. Do we hear any 90s trends on this record? Yes, I think we do. This brings us to one of the most fun songs on the record, Nobody No Crime, or Nobody No Crime. I think it's the latter. I think he did it, but I just can't.

Nobody no crime, but I ain't letting up until the day I die. You asked, are there any 90s trends here? And doesn't that just feel familiar? Sounds like a Dixie Chicks song or something. Ah, yes. No, no, no, it's just the chicks. Or Oasis, maybe. Yeah, totally.

I mean, it has a lot of 90s elements. I mean, even has some early Taylor. I can hear some, like, Tim McGraw or teardrops on my guitar kind of acoustic qualities. Maybe even a Pollock hole, I don't want to wait kind of thing. But if there's any one song, trust me, I just. You're going to put a minute. They work. No, I don't.

I'm not giving you that. But yeah, please continue it. All right. If that doesn't work, what about this one? Oh, it's like an acoustic version of Tom Petty. Yeah, Mary Jane's Last Dance. Song dropped in 1993, very popular throughout the 90s. And it has a similar drum groove.

It has a very similar sort of guitar sound, except for from electric to acoustic, as you pointed out. Yeah, yeah. This is a friend of mine. So this is a Every Tuesday night For dinner and a glass of wine Estes been losing sleep Her husband's acting

So this is a song With the wonderful Women of the group Hymme, the three Hymme sisters And this song is sort of In that same format Of one of her great songs From the last album,

The Last Great American Dynasty This is a song where Based around some truths, there's sort of this imagined world That Taylor creates And in this one, it's a murder ballad about SD Hyde. Yeah, this one is a lot of garden at her job or any where he reports is missing why. And I noticed when I pass this house, his truck has got some brand new times.

And his mistress moved. Yeah, this one is so much fun. And it's like a testament to that theme we were talking about earlier, right? Like, I defy you to argue that there's any Easter eggs in this song about one of the Hymn sisters actually committing murder. This is made up. This is invention. Totally. And it's brilliant and it's fun and it's clever.

And the joy of it is not trying to understand how this might translate to events in her real life. It's to kind of marvel at the wit and the danger and the kind of. macabre fun of it. Yeah, you're totally right. This is also fun because it's in the country murder ballad style. This could be a Johnny Cash kind of song. So again, we got some early roots kind of thing. We've got some 90 stuff going on.

But there's one thing you're wrong about. This is a place where I actually think there are some fun Easter eggs because you got it wrong a little bit. By the time we come back to the end of the song, it turns out, no, no, S. S.E. didn't murder anybody. Oh, right. She's the victim. She's the victim. Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry. Exactly.

And so this is kind of like in the style of blank space where Taylor really plays up the media narrative of her being like conniving or backstabbing, right? And so she's kind of like playing with that concept because, of course, she does end up being, I guess, the literal backstabber in this song.

She thinks I did it, but she just can't prove it. This is a double, backer, I wasn't letting up into the day. No, nobody, no crime. I wasn't letting up into a day. This is a double murder. But she's, I mean, backstabber is not the right word because she's taking, it's a righteous, it's a righteous kill.

No, of course. I actually was trying to flip the metaphor. It's not actually about her stabbing someone. It was about her stabbing someone in the back, literally, not figuratively. Yeah, totally. So there's also. This features one of my favorite kind of rhetorical musical devices in Taylor Swift's songs. What's that?

Which is where the chorus changes from beginning to end. Exactly. Right. In the beginning, the chorus is, I think he did it, but I just can't prove it. I think he did it, but I just can't prove it. And by the end, it's they think she did it, but they just can't prove it. They think she did it But they just can't prove it

They think she did it That is so satisfying When she does that It really gives you this sense of The song having like an arc And a progression And it's such a great payoff When she tweaks the chorus like that

To reflect how the song has developed And revealed itself to you M-W- Good thing My daddy made me get a boating license when I was 15. And I've cleaned enough houses to know how to cover up a scene. Good thing Esty sister's gonna swear she was with me. She was with me, too.

Good thing, his mistress took out a big life insurance policy. That's a beautiful thing. Even that subtle, she thinks I did it, but she just can't prove it. But of course, she can't prove it. But of course, she can't prove it because she had an alibi. The Heim sister was like, no, she was with me. It's a really fun track. And this is what's so wild about this album is at times it's very serious.

Just like on folklore, there are these really fun, playful songs that are often the sort of Tennessee Taylor throwback country illusions. one that might sort of blend between the serious and the playful be a song like Tis the Damn Season and in many ways for me this is the most country of all the songs on the album even if it doesn't have that twang

it's got the lyric It's the damn season right this time I'm staying at my parents' house in the road not taking looks real good now and it always leads to you in my hometown We've got all the essential elements.

We've got messy mud on the truck tires, and we have a nice little tag of, and it always leads you to my hometown on an unresolved chord, which is kind of nice. This also has just that fundamental country kind of phrasing, where she takes a rhyme and then we'll play with the phrasing, extend it out, something like, we could call it even.

You could call me babe for the weekend. So we have a short line. we could call it even, and then a long line. You could call me babe for the weekend, tis the damn season. So we get these rhymes occurring at different points in the bar, and it just has that real country sort of feel. No twig, but it has the cadence, it has the lyrical tropes. And we see that she's obviously pulling from the things that she's great

from the very beginning of her career. There's actually a term for that in country music, from the country scholars, Jimmy N. Rogers and Miller Williams, it's called the hinged figure. All right, hold on there, Cowboy. We're going to take a short break, and when we come back,

you can tell me about this so-called hinged figure. Maria, you have a podcast now, and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova, and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women

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Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. Immigration may be Donald Trump's signature issue. President Trump is now targeting predominantly democratic cities for ice raids and deportations. Dozens of protesters clashing with immigration and customs enforcement agents in Minneapolis Tuesday. We will begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to do in this space is talk about America.

and politics beyond the current president. So what do most Americans think about deportation and border security, period? I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ICE. When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want border at the border. They don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. The view on immigration from the bottom up, instead of the top down.

That's this week on America Actually. Every Saturday in your audio and video feeds. Okay, Nate, so what is this hinged figure in country music that you speak of? It's when you kind of have like a double lyrical figure that goes in two different directions. For instance, like the country artist Bobby Bear has a line, By day I make the cars. By night, I make the bars. But by day I make the cars.

by night I make the bars Conway Twitty has Since she's not with the one she loves She loves the one she's with Uh yeah yeah Now since she's not with The one she loves She loves

The one she's with So how does this work in Tis the Damn season The line is We could call it even You could call me babe for the weekend Tis the damn season We could call it even You could call me babe for the weekend.

Teasing right this down. Because she's transforming the meaning of call from the first line to the second line. Oh, you could call it even is like a one turn of phrase. And then she kind of transforms the meaning in the second phrase to call me babe for the weekend. Ah, got it. So, like, sets you up for, you're expecting to hear kind of one thing, but then it takes you in a different direction. That's a very country turn of phrase. That's the hinged figure.

Oh, ooh, okay, neat. This is so much fun. You know, we've probably explored Taylor's work more than anybody else's on our show and yet they learn new things every time. The hinged figure. Here's one from Ronnie Millsap. She didn't come here for the money.

She came here for the change. Ooh. Where are you getting these? It's all in this article by Jimmy and Rogers and Miller Williams called Figure It Out the linguistic turn in country music. Okay, cool. We'll post a note about that in our show notes.

Okay, so we've talked a lot about how she's using the skills of her early period. We've talked about the pop production from the middle period. We're going to talk about, I think, some of the creativity that has come in what you call maybe her L.A. period. In this place where I think she's really taken on a mastery of songwriting and song form and is pushing the boundaries of how a song can be structured to surprise us in new ways and to express yourself in new ways.

And there's two songs that come to mind here. The first is a gold rush. I don't like a gold rush, gold rush. I don't like anticipating my face in a red flush. I don't like that anyone would die to feel your touch. Everybody wants you. Everybody wants you. So this is funny, Nate.

What section are we hearing here? Is it the chorus? Is it the verse? I don't know. We'd have to listen to the rest of the song, I think. Okay, so here's the next section. What happens next? All right, so what's that?

A bridge? Or a chorus? I mean, they're both really hooky. I think they're just. both hooks, right? There's obviously an intro, but then the first part that kind of was like a chorus repeats.

And then the next part, which is like a different chorus, repeats with a subtle variation. My mind turns to your life into folklore. I can't dare to dream about you anymore. A nice one in which she actually drops the name of her record. Wink, wink, wink, wink. Very nice folklore.

This song has got a funny structure. It basically is like two different sections that are repeated with a slight variation. And yet the whole time, I just feel like I'm listening to a chorus. The song's over three minutes long. I never get bored. I don't know. It doesn't structure itself like a normal pop song. and yet it's entirely catchy.

And I think that is a testament to just like everything in it is great. The melodies are good. It's got this propulsive beat. It has wonderful lyricism. Even the central metaphor, I think it's particularly strong. I don't like a gold rush. I don't like anticipating my face in a red flush. I don't like that anyone would die to feel your touch.

I don't like a gold rush, gold rush. I don't like anticipating. paid in my face in a red flush i don't like that anyone would die to feel your touch everybody yeah i think she's kind of showing off on this one a little bit because in that first section whether we call it a chorus or a verse or a bridge or whatever it's like she's really trying to use every it's like she's breaking out the rhyming dictionary right rush flush touch brush blush brush that's good that's That's an impressive array of ush rhymes. They're not multisyllabic, but they're great,

because each metaphor is really strong. I don't like anticipation of my face in a red flush. The shame, you actually feel that rhyme. And then in the next section, she does this other kind of lyrical trick where you have internal rhymes, right? And the coastal town we wandered round had never seen a love as pure as it.

I call you out on your contrarian And the coastal town we round around Have never seen love as pure as it And then it fades into the gray of my day old tea So it's like there's that inner rhyme Between town and round And then the next line does the same thing And then it fades into the gray of my day old tea

So it's like AIDS gray day I mean the rhyme in each of those Is not those internal rhymes It's the end rhyme. In that case, it's T. But within the structure of the line, there's these internal rhymes that match each other. Is she showing off here?

But yeah, this is a beautiful song. I love that moment in the very beginning where it starts with this ethereal, choir-like opening. And then just kind of like, and then all of a sudden it's like there's a door slam shut and we're like in this other musical world. It's a very cool moment.

courtesy of the producer Jack Antonoff. I recognize this one as a Jack Antonoff production for a couple of reasons and to maybe use some mixed metaphors yours and hers, the door slamming shut and maybe even this gold rush metaphor. There are some sudden and unexpected changes, and this is where I really picked up on some of his participation, perhaps in this production. Oh, right, you're right.

Yeah, the better metaphor is jumping into underwater, and it's like, yeah, okay, forget the door. Scratch the door. Go ahead. You can hear what I talk about when it switches. which is from the something chorus into the next chorus. Right when she says, I don't like a gold rush, we get this very strange downward modal modulation

moving from the key of a major into the key of a Mixolydian. this might feel like it's wonky and unnecessary to talk about, but I think it's relevant because I do believe that perhaps part of what really drew me to this song was another song. What song is that? Did it frighten you? How we kissed when we danced on the light of floor.

On the light of floor. So it turns out Lord's Green Light, also produced by Jack Antonoff does the exact same move song is in the key of A major and it makes this shift down into a mixalidian this dark funky chromaticism

with actually the exact same chords very similar rhythm and a very sort of strong connection between these two not the same song We can all re-borrow chord progressions. Very common. You talked about it not so long ago.

And Queen borrowing from themselves as well. But this was curious to me. It was like, it caught my ear. It was like one of those things was like in the background scratching my head and I couldn't figure it out for the last day or so. And then all of a sudden I was like, oh. Oh, yeah. This is that other song is kind of present here.

What's that modulation again? So they both do this sort of funny thing where you're nicely in this like key of a major. and it shifts to, in the end of the section, it moves to a big E. You think it's going to go back to A. But instead, it goes E to G, which has this sort of chromatic note that you don't expect. The subtonic. Yes. And they both go through that same core progression, G, D, A.

And at that. exact moment the vocals shoot up in both in both songs giving that contrary emotion you were talking about chords go down vocals go up very satisfying yep you could kind of mash them up back to back yeah listen I don't think there's any problem borrowing from yourself that there is a shared producer here. That's totally fine. This is Taylor's own song. And this is, again, what stands out for me here is this very sort of strange structure.

And I like that this metaphor of sudden change is realized in the song. There's unpredictability in this song. And so it's one which where the lyric and the production, I think, really match very nicely. Which brings me to the other track that I wanted to chat about in terms of how Taylor is using her skills, a songwriter, to do some creative and funky things and use this underlying production, your pianos and plucky guitars

and sort of fulky sounds, some electronic drums, pop production drums in the background, and do something new in each song, so each song sort of stands on its own. And the song I'm talking about is closure. Start some of those drums, distorted, almost like through a

cassette tape, and then the piano enters this wonderful little riff. You can hear the keys clacking. Yes, I got your letter.

Yes, I'm doing better. It cut deep to know you right to the bone. Yes, I got your letter. Whoa. It's a cool one, right? Five four odd meter. Yeah.

In this one. How unusual and how fun. Yeah. The music nerds are going to love this one. Totally. There's something about

whenever someone does a song that's not in beats of four and when people use especially odd numbers like five, seven or eleven, the music nerds come out and freak out and it's true. It is a slight musical feat to write a good song in an odd meter. Yeah, let's break down how that works real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we've got a beat of three and then a beat of two. You count one, two, three, one, two. Okay.

One, two, three, one, two. Yes, I got your letter. Yes, I'm doing better. Yes, I got your letter. Yes, I'm doing better. It's good to know you right to the bone. It's cool. Yeah.

But it's not, for me, this is not just about, like, music nerdery showing off. The song just works on its own because the first couple times I heard this, I didn't put my nerve brain on. It just worked. like it's got this good phrasing yes I got your letter yes I'm doing better kind of like falling onto itself which is what that odd meter does to us

like there's this extra beat we don't know quite where to dance to and it's one of those moments where the song fits the meter because this is a song where she's saying I don't need closure like I don't need your closure

she's just going to keep on moving just as the meter just as the drums keep on moving along in a slightly unpredictable Whoa. Isn't that nice? I don't need your closure. You're closer. Mama like.

That's cool. That's great stuff. All right, ever more. I think my opinion of this album is utterly changed. I'm really, I'm really into this. There's no afterthought here. Especially Gold Rush and No Body, No Crime. Like, mm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ah, yes. Eat that up with a fork and spoon. I totally see how this feels like a, you know, definitely a continuation, right? Similar timbers, same collaborators.

You could shuffle these records and it all just nicely comes together. And yet, this is really about songs. There's a lot of lovely songs here. we should probably close out with the eponymous song Evermore features a lovely duet with Boni Vair. As I said, this album has winky, funny songs of made-up characters and some other more serious songs of personal nature,

relationships, life challenges, and so on. And this is, I think, a really lovely one to end on because it takes us on a journey from despair through to hope. the first time we hear her chorus, Taylor Swift is in despair. And I was catching my breath, staring out an open window catching my death. Be sure. So peculiar that this pain would be for evermore.

I don't mean to make light of the moment here, right? Like this is a lovely little turn of phrase that this pain would be for evermore. Forevermore, for ever more, the album, Evermore, so on. Well,

we've got another one of those hinged figures from country music again, right? Is that right? Oh, I didn't even recognize this.

Catching my breath, catching my death. Oh, you know? Yeah. That's similar to this Loretta Lynn song where she sings,

well, he's making love and make and believe. Anyway, please go on. It's right. So she's, all right,

she's just weaving all that good stuff in there. But this is a, obviously, This is a dark, dark chorus catching my death, worried that this pain is going to be forevermore. And then the song goes on a journey and we get a new collaborator. Justin Vernon of Boni Vair comes in and the whole song moves into an entirely new domain. The music shifts.

The action increases. and we collide in an ocean of waves. It's the metaphor, but there's a collision of this duet between Taylor Swift and Justin Vernon. And after going through this torrent, this storm, the music recedes back into that sort of calmer place where it was in that despairing first chorus.

And yet that thing that you love, Nate, is that it changes the next time around. What a way to nail the ending. Yeah, it's beautiful. I have nothing to add. That's just lovely. Yeah, it's lovely. So, you know, this is an album.

I think everybody should go and explore. It's got 15 lovely songs. They are all kind of their own little world, whether serious, playful, whether they are in the nostalgic past of Tennessee Taylor or pop Taylor or future master songwriter Taylor. There's a lot to check out here.

along with songs or you get the deluxe version you can even more songs but overall evermore folklore lovely little pairing i really just have one you know one question remains for me what's that how many more times is she going to make us do this this year you know i can't i need i need i need my sleep i can't be waking up at midnight you know every month to to listen to the new taylor swift album so just like you know chill chill taylor next time she wants to do a secret release she should Give us a call. Come on the show. We'll drop out on the show next time.

Yeah. How about that? Call us, babe, for the weekend. This episode of Switch on Pop was produced by us at a time that didn't make any sense, but it got done. My friend Nate Sloan, me, Charlie Harding. We are mixed edited and engineer by brand name Farlin, illustration by our Scott Leeb, and social media by Amy Bar. Our executive producers are in Shott, Koura, and Liz Kelly Nelson, and a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network. You can listen to our show wherever you get podcasts.

Tune in on Tuesday for a very special Christmas episode, our annual tradition. We'll be featuring a conversation with the great Chili Gonzalez and breaking down the song Last Christmas by Wham. Exclamation point. We'll be concluding our year the following week when Nate will be back for good, which is great. They'll be taking a little short holiday break and back again in the new year. Can't wait to see you there. And until then, thanks for listening. Euforia of Calvin Klein,

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