Switched on Pop - The Pop Music Forecast (with Lauren Michele Jackson)

Episode Date: October 14, 2020

Shawn Mendes, BTS, Alicia Keys, 24kGoldn, Dua Lipa, Justin Bieber & Chance The Rapper are all in the Hot 100 with songs that attempt to cope with the state of the world. What do they tell us about the sound of popular music and our collective psyche? Charlie is joined by writer, critic and friend of the podcast, Lauren Michele Jackson to offer a meteorological reading of music in late 2020. MORE Read Aja Romano's article "With 'Dynamite,' BTS beat the US music industry at its own cheap game" on Vox.com SONGS DISCUSSED Shawn Mendes - Wonder Alicia Keys - Underdog Hamilton - My Shot Dua Lipa - Break My Heart INXS - Need You Tonight BTS - Dynamite Justin Bieber - Holy ft. Chance The Rapper 24kgolden - Mood ft. iann dior Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Welcome to Switched on Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. We've been doing a lot of throwback on the show, classical series on Beethoven. We've been diving into country music, but I feel like we've been missing out on something that we love to do, which is looking at what's happening on the charts and seeing what's new.

So I thought it'd be fun to do a chart-topping weather report, do a breezy look through what's happening in music. And Nate is out today. but I'm delighted to introduce to you as my co-host, friend of the pod, writer, critic, and professor Lauren Michelle Jackson. Welcome. Hi, thanks for having me. Oh, so great. Okay, so we have set out the rules of today is that each of us have picked three songs that are either topping the charts or are significant new releases.

And you have picked three songs. I have picked three songs. Our goal is to figure out what do they tell us about where we are at musically and maybe more broadly. as well. Do you want to lead us off? Yeah. So, first off, we have Wonder, the single by Sean Mendez. I think this really kicks off what is called the, we could call the Wonder Era of Sean Mendez. This is him moving into his introspective phase. And, I mean, I'm kidding a little bit, but I do think that as much as this song, is sort of a ballad and isn't really a huge vocal departure for him.

The lyrics do sort of sound more interior than usual. And so, like, in contrast to other songs and other singles, he's done where there seems to be a really clear sort of second person in play, this one's more on that eye voice and asking rhetorical questions and being open. Right before I close my eyes, the only thing that's on my mom, There's a video with it where he's running through the forest and getting splashed on by waves

and doing all the sort of like pop music-y theatrics that, you know, I personally enjoy, even if it's a little silly. I tend to agree. I mean, I love the over-the-top epicness of this song. It's one of those like slow builder ballads that he is just such a master of starts off really quiet and just his voice and then it's like,

I wonder, I wonder before I close my eyes the only thing that's home I'm been dreaming. And then it's like

the world is opening he's running through the forest the rain is starting to come down and then like all of this big bombastic drumming and he's shouting out over the ocean I feel like there's something really meaningful about the confessional yearning nature of this song that provides an emotional catharsis that I feel like it stretches my own emotive capacity in a time when I've been entirely permit-like at home and sort of feel really constrained.

It's a real relief from that. It's a really good like, I think like shower song, car song. and I think these are really important things in this time right now. I think another musical moment for me that really captures that is the when we finally get to sort of at the end of the song we have these wild drum fills

that are just going like and underneath it these heavy, heavy, heavy sub-base notes where the beginning might feel yeah, a little tame. We get the full emotive capacity throughout the arc of the song. And it's such a fun one to bring to the show. Okay, let's keep on moving.

So I've picked the song Underdog by Alicia Keys. There's actually a lot I really like on this album. there's some beautiful songs. great production. There's songs that came in where I was like, ooh, immediately my ear is just like, I'm listening.

There's a three-hour drive with SAMHFA, also Me Time 7 with T.R. Wack. There's some really lovely songs here. But that brings us to the single Underdog. This song is her most successful song since 2012's Girl on Fire.

It's got a lot of co-writers, including Ed Shearin, of all folks. I think we actually hear a lot of his influence. And it's trying to speak to issues of inequality, sending love out to

essential workers in the pandemic. And the song even has a sort of campfire sing-along type feel. We're supposed to use this as an anthem for overcoming and celebrating underdogs. Like, I appreciate the attempt here. And I know that Alicia Keys

started out herself as an underdog. And I think works hard to stay connected with that. And yet, I feel like despite the great intentions, this really feels like a song of a celebrity who's failing to see the power dynamics at play in their track. It feels like a sort of corporate empowerment anthem, and it has some issues with power. The literary devices that she uses, I think, are quite problematic.

In the first verse, we have a homeless person without a name. She was walking in a street, looked up and noticed. He was nameless. He was home. She asked him his name and told him what hers was. He gave her a story about life. And the narrator speaks to this homeless person and is inspired by their story. And then we lose that character and said in the second verse go to a taxi cab driver from another country.

She's riding in a taxi back to the kitchen, talking to the drive about his wife and his children on a run from a country where they put you in prison for being a woman and speak in your mind. And here the narrator decides to talk to their taxi cab driver and Lauren's all about the challenges they've overcome in their life. And I think that those are both of you from privilege and not of you from actually being the underdog. No, I completely agree. It feels very much like a sort of anthem that I felt like we passed by in the last moment of, us trying to like come together as a country and like elect somebody for like the highest opposite like it felt like very 2015 2016 and I felt like we kind of learned from the what's the katy perry song the like roar of it all like the like that kind of version of like a rousing

song yeah and I think we're like really in a moment where people are noticing a profound misreading on behalf of a lot of celebrities who are like trying to do the good thing right now. And it's like, do the people want a rousing anthem or do they want a jam or like something they can dance to or something they can nod their head to or something they can think to? Right. I just, I always just like kind of wonder what who these kinds of anthems are for, especially in a moment where we're not like gathering together in like a stadium. I mean, I think a great counter example would be like Anderson Pock's lockdown.

He's like you should have been downtown, like the people are rising, as they're happening, releasing a song that is of that moment, and it feels like he's there telling that story as a participant feels really different than, yeah, like the view from above or like the view from the stage at stadium where let me tell you how other people are feeling in a way that just, again, it's just, it's so, it's in the subtleties, but it doesn't work. And I, I have to say, I have, I have another, another gripe, which is that the final line in the chorus. This goes up to the under door. Keep on keeping and what you love. You'll find that someday soon enough. You will rise up, rise up. Yeah.

This goes out to the underdog. Keep on keeping at what you love. You'll find that someday soon. You'll rise up, rise up, yeah. And this feels like a message, which is in so much contemporary popular music. This is not unique here to this song. I think it's an issue that we're all grappling with,

which is like the way in which we have absorbed neoliberal ideology so deeply that the only way for us to succeed is to be the underdog and to pull ourselves up through our own bootstraps. And it's funny, though, because this moment here sounds a lot like another song that I think offers perhaps another reading of the same idea. All right, Hamilton, what do you think? That's my shot from Hamilton, one of the most successful songs off the record. and when we hear Underdog, it feels like really similar.

You'll find that someday, Sunina, you will rise up, rise up, yeah. Wow. No, that's like exactly. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Even the like rise up, like very like very little text painting moving up. Yeah, absolutely. It's very broadway. And I guess this is why I'm thinking like I like the idea that we could maybe think

about it from the Hamilton perspective, which is like rising up isn't spontaneously through your own work, through your own individual effort, becoming the star you've always wanted to be that breaks the mold, but rather the collective rising up. And I think that I don't mean to say that that's not in the song, but I think it's another way, like it reclaims the song a little bit if we think about it from that perspective. And again, I like, I celebrate the effort. It's important that we're trying to look at these issues. I'm glad that pop music is trying to think about issues of inequality, but I think we need to make sure that we do so in inclusive ways that doesn't tokenize people. And in all that said, like the rest of the album, it's beautiful.

Go and listen to it. It's great. It's work worth engaging with. And I appreciate sort of thinking critically about what celebrities are trying to do and why the view from the top might not always be the view that the people need. Well said. So maybe on a more upbeat note, You've brought a really fun song. Yeah. So my next song is, it's not a new new song, but it is on the charts. And it's Diolipa's Break My Heart, which is a song I can, I'll already admit my bias I love. But I think what's interesting about the life of this song is that it was released as a single during those sort of early lost, like staggered weeks of quarantine.

And it was the single that I think more than anything made Dua, like, the frontrunner for this, like, impromptu title of quarantine queen because, you know, the lyrics are all about, you know, warring internally between the safety of, like, staying in with the risks of going out. You know, the song is about, you know, mostly about emotional safety, right? and about heartbreak or potential heartbreak. When it came out, it just felt so timely in terms of the sort of shared risk of, you know, not only not going out or the shared risk of going out, but going out in the way that like disco is made for, you know, getting close and being with your friends

and rubbing up on people and breathing on each other and all that jazz. And in a moment when we can't do that, you know, the lyrics just felt so poignant and very like, home disco. And then of course there's that interpolation from in excess

which is like the most attention grabbing thing I think Wait, I don't know this I totally missed it. What is it? And break my heart? Yeah, I totally miss this.

What is it? I should have stayed at home because I was doing better alone but when you said hello I know there was the end of it all It's the guitar line Oh! That is like

Great reference. And I also love how the song borrows so much of NXS's production. Like it's got the disco funk, which NXS has two, but it also has like sort of like Prince 80s style percussion. Oh, I love that. It's a banger. I think the song more than anything kind of means that we're more or less still listening to a lot of the same or rediscovering a lot of the same albums that have been coming out with. in the past couple months because there's time to

and there's room too and still thinking with future nostalgia which I mean I sure am I still play that album a lot. Oh yeah. It's on our opinion.

This is one that I feel like we are willing to look at some of the hard things of what's going on the world right now as long as it's like caked in some disco fun

and I don't have to look at it too closely and I can dance along. Yet the song does use its core message in some really creative musical ways and there was one that I wanted to point to that I was listening to this while driving down the highway yesterday

and I almost had to be like, oh my God, I have to pull off and listen to this thing because it's so brilliantly produced. How would you describe her voice in that moment? Transcendant. Is that the right answer? No. Does it feel like it's in a sanctuary? Like the voice is.

cavernous, it's enormous. This is that moment that I think, as you're pointing to, is like this feels like in a dance club kind of moment. She's saying on the center of attention, all of the world is sort of like starting to focus in around. Like, it feels like the lights are bright. She's speaking about, it's in you, in my reflection. Her voices are reflecting around the room.

It feels like Dua is all around us. And then... It gets like real quiet or like whispery or just like it's very like local. Exactly. It's totally narrow. All that reverb that we had earlier, all that sanctuary, cavernous sound. I would have stayed at home. I would have been alone. It becomes interior. I would have stayed at home because I was doing better alone. But when you said hello. So even the way that the song is produced, I think, creates that feeling of expansiveness. Like, I'm going out.

And then, like, actually, no, no, no. In the chorus, like, it's just me. I'm here dancing by myself. Yeah. And I think, like, the song as a whole balancing those two scales. Like, it really does, like, replicate the kind of, like, ambivalence of, like, do I go out or not? Or, like, do I regret going out, you know, sort of while you're even in the experience? It's like, do I, was this the right choice?

in thinking of all the counterfactuals. I think you said it just right. That's why this song has persisted for so long because we are still living in exactly that question. There are many more questions about where we're at that we need to explore, where we're at musically, societyally, and we're going to do so in the second half of our episode. Attention Spotify.

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get explosive in here. We're going to listen to BTS's Dynamite. This is a fascinating

track with a lot more going on than I had originally known because I thought this was

just riding that disco-funk wave, that Duo-Lipa kind of sound that we had been hearing. You know, it's got fun house beats. It's got a pop drop, it's got these huge horns. It even has this hilariously over the top modulation, which mirrors the explosiveness

of the dynamite in the chorus. But I always thought that lyrically this was a really weak song until a colleague of mine helped set the record straight and totally changed my mind. Hi, I'm Asia Romano. I am a culture reporter for Vox. And I recently wrote an article analyzing the BTS song Dynamite, which has been a chart top of the last couple of weeks, a really popular fun summer bop. The song debuted

at number one. It's only the third song in history to do that. This is a big song, and Asia's a real K-pop fan, really knows the genre, and sees Dynamite through a lens that most U.S. listeners are probably missing. So I asked Asia

what's significant about this song. A couple of things. It made history because It's the first time a K-pop group has ever reached the number one spot on the Billboard Hot 100, which has been a goal of the band for several years and was really, really treated like a national event in Korea. The president of the country congratulated them on this achievement. It was a big, big deal and certainly a big deal for the fans of the band. And for the band, this is significant for another reason as well, aside from being nationally celebrated, which is extraordinary. Asia told me that this is a song which is musically consistent with past summer hits from BTS, songs that are airy and breezy and bubbly, kind of like DNA.

Or Boy with Love. But the real change here is that they're singing exclusively in English. And this is a band who said that they want to keep a. keep their identity true. They want to make music, which is authentically Korean. And in fact, there's this ongoing battle between the BTS Army and US radio, because despite being one of the most streamed artists right now, US radio has been reluctant to carry BTS because it's predominantly in Korean. And so at first glance, it kind of feels like, wait a minute, has BTS caved to that pressure? I want to make very clear that the lyrics were not written by the band. Often the band has considerable creative control and creative input into the songs that they produce.

Many of the band members are musicians and producers themselves and have written or co-written songs on their albums. But Dynamite was essentially ordered by the CEO of Columbia Records, who is BTS's US distributor. And he basically tasked UK producer David Stewart and UK songwriter Jessica I Gombar to write a song that could be a number one hit for BTS. They were essentially writing to spec. I feel like this is a story that so many people get upset about in pop music, right? Like there's some behind the scenes, corporate boardroom, manipulation, and maybe that explains the songs totally

inane lyrics. They sound like they were algorithmically produced in kind of a vacuum based on the criteria for what Americans think American pop music should sound like. Right. Like, the opening lyrics of this, I think, are a shining example. Shoes on, get up in the morning, cup of milk, let's rock and roll. Asia points to this lyric as a surreal echo of the first line of Rebecca Black's notoriously derided song Friday, which became an internet meme. go downstairs.

Gotta have my bowl, got to have cereal. Asia thinks that this whole thing going on is pretty postmodern. You get this really weird disconnect because you have this idea of what Americana is being refracted through two British people handed to who are writing for Korean singers

and you get this idea that there's something else at work in these lyrics that's about sort of exploiting and manipulating American perceptions of what Korean singers think American music should be and American images should sound like and how Korean singers would then present

that to them. But again, none of this is authentic. It's being written to spec by British people on demand for an American producer. So it's very kind of smoke and mirrors-ish. And in the middle of it, you have these lyrics that are very, they're very sunny, very fun. I'm in the stars tonight.

So watch me bring the fire and set the night alight, shining through the city with a little funk and soul. Light it up like dynamite. That's the chorus. And it's peppy and fun, but what does it mean? I don't know. I don't think any of us know exactly what these lyrics mean.

They are, as agents said, smoke and mirrors. It could be upsetting that BTS has sung a song all in English to get their number one hit. But maybe there's another way of thinking about this. What I said my article is that dynamite is a collection of disjointed cliches that are trolling Americans. On the one hand, I'm disappointed because I feel like BTS's music and their lyrical abilities are so much more powerful and sophisticated and complex than you get a sense of from dynamite. And that should be more widely recognized. But on the other hand, I'm amused and I'm happy that they made them number one. And I'm amused and delighted that they seem to have trolled the U.S. music industry and beat them at their own game.

I'm really glad for Asia's analysis because I think my first. thought was also really liking the idea that America's own like nonsense narcissism is like becomes a gimmick because I think we're so used to the narrative going the other way. The like despisito conversation with Justin Bieber or thinking about the way Drake likes to, I mean, Drake is Canadian, but the way in which he likes to sort of dip and dabble. into various ethnic languages, right? But here we actually get the reverse. It's like playing upon Americans' own self-image.

Yeah. That's brilliant. Totally. I also just love how it helps me realize how empty and meaningless so many lyrics are within popular music, which is often okay. Like sometimes we just need something silly and fun and there's nothing going on there.

I actually don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing, unless you're trying to write a good lyric, and it turns out like it's not a good lyric. But here we have someone who's taking that whole cliche and turning it on its head and making, as Asia put it, it's like a song which was commissioned written by these other songwriters for this producer then performed by BTS feels more like some kind of like art, pop commentary.

And I think that the curation in them singing this song and getting a number one hit, is a fascinating reflection of where we are at at this particular moment. It's so emblematic not only of how I think a lot of music actually is made today, but also just the way that culture is consumed and interpreted, where on Instagram and Twitter and all the apps, just like everybody's sort of culture is like side by side in a way that wasn't possible before the internet

opened all these regional borders. So you have Korean influencers sliding next to the Kardashians, next to Afrobeats artists, next to all these different people. And as a consumer, as a user, it's just all getting sucked in and not necessarily differentiated

in any sort of specific way. And so the idea that music and culture goes through all these different channels before it gets to you, I think is just a real thing. Speaking of genres all kind of alighting together, you have a, I think, a really interesting shift to take the conversation with your next pick. Yeah, we're going to church again, but not quite.

So the song I have is from Justin Bieber called Holy featuring Chance the rapper. Can't wait in that the second Because the way you hold me, oh me, hold me, hold me, feel so holy. They say what too young.

They've collabed before. I think this is a sort of unique in their line of collapse that they like to do every now and then. They've mostly made party songs in the past. Yeah. They usually do like, I mean, I guess the song could be considered fun.

But instead of the more sort of R&B or more like poppy, or even like sort of like rapish songs that they like to do. I'll call this one gospel inflected pop. And I think if I say that, I think you kind of know what I mean because that's a thing now.

And I think it's very standard chance fair. And actually I think something interesting about this song is that you can almost switch their parts and it would still make sense as a song without either artists needing to like stretch. too far outside of their comfort zone. So it's like that very like sway and snap R&B or like sway and clap R&B, the lyrics are about God, but they maybe are also about a significant other. I hear a lot about sinners.

Don't think that I'll be a saint, but I might go down to the river. Because the way that the sky opens up when we touch you, it's making me say that the way you hold. The video for this one, I feel compelled to mention just because it's like so odd. There's a video for it where Bieber is, he plays an oil rig worker who is suddenly out of work. And then he and his wife are evicted. But like destiny smiles on them in the form of Omar Valderrama. And it's a lot. They're like praying by the table and it's all very earnest and heartfelt.

And altogether really matches the song, which I think wants to be earnest and wants to you know, evoke a sort of spirituality, if not a strict sort of scripture, understanding or interpretation of Christianity, which kind of tracks with both of artists. I think as we look at the video as well it has this same issue. It's like, celebrities, what identities is it appropriate to try on? Or the video almost feels like it could have been a commercial like on this during the Super Bowl or something like that. Like that like that genre of like whereas I actually think Bieber usually has pretty fun videos. I thought like the Yummy video was fun.

I thought, like, a previous track he was on that Chance was on, I'm the one, like, where they're just, like, at a huge mansion. There's just, like, having a ball. Like, I would love to see that because, like, I can't, you know, I can't go anywhere. Right. But this, like, idea of, like, trying to be relatable. Thank you so much pop musicians for looking at issues, trying to get them, trying to represent them.

There's still homework to do. With all this, with the holy nature, with this collaboration, with this gospel inflection, with these trying on of identities, how are you feeling about holy right now? I think it's saying that Bieber has, and Chance has,

found something meaningful, that is meaningful to them that maybe doesn't necessarily fully translate to other. You took us to one side of the pendulum, a shift towards the holy. I'm going to shift us into a moodier direction. We're going to listen to as my final pick, 24-Karit-Golden's mood featuring Ian Dior. One way of trying to move past this moment we live in is looking to a holy power, something bigger than ourselves. And another way of looking at this moment is also looking at this moment is also looking at.

looking inwards and seeing that, hey, sometimes we're not in a good mood. And a song that on one hand feels upbeat and playful, but is really masking these quite honest and clear lyrics about dealing with depression, dealing with romance that isn't going well because people's emotional well-being is not going well, people playing with, toying with each other's hearts. It feels, on one hand, you know, this is a very sort of teenage love song, Who Broke Whose Heart, kind of a thing. And on the other, sometimes listening to this song actually makes me feel all the feels.

It's heavy. The, like, we're trying on love to avoid the depression. We play games of love to avoid the depression. We've been here before and I won't be a victim. Why you always in a moon? I think it's further heavy because if we look at the charts, you know, emo rap is doing still very well. And this song obviously owes a lot to artists like XXTentacion,

Little Peep, and Juice World, who currently has three songs on the Hot 100. And of course, Juice World recently passed away. His song, Wishing Well, which is also on the charts right now, points even more directly to depression and issues of drug abuse. So this song for me, I think, kind of like the pills, I won't be here. But if I keep taking these pills, I won't be here. Yeah. I just told you my secret.

Yeah. So this song for me, I think, kind of like the Duelapa track, does that same thing where it's like, there's some heavy stuff going on. I'm going to put it under a beat that is really fun, but it feels very human in that way, right? Where the only way that we can seem to deal with the heaviness is to try to find some kind of musical levity, try to dance to it.

Yeah, the song totally takes me to that, like my Midwest emo, like, sad kid place where you think it's just you, but actually it's just like, everyone actually is like going through it but we're all going through it alone um kind of like right now or like all the time i appreciate that you look to your moody teenage years with smiles on your face you know it's like what else can we do in a lot of ways that is a more comforting sentiment to hear from an artist and and from musicians than maybe something more cheery or something more rousing. Like sometimes you just want to sit and all you can do is just like sit in your feels

and and just like wallow in it. And I think every, I mean, I think that's what we're doing. We're all wallowing. But I also think we also deserve, we deserve to wallow. Yeah. It's like if someone's just like buck up, you're like, excuse me, I'm really not feeling good here. And I appreciate that there's music that's finding ways to channel that. All right. So we said we were going to do a meteorological analysis of what these things point to do we see any patterns emerging i mean it seems like we have the pattern of the there are some songs and artists that seem to really tap into the like interior life of of quarantine um but not just quarantine but just like life under um life under a lot of like

sort of chaotic pressing matters and then there's seems to be art artists who are kind of trying to reach outside of the self in a way that isn't all the way working or doesn't feel as as close to what people are going through right now. Yeah, for sure. Like you started with Sean Mendez and Wonder and in some ways that song's about nothing and yet it helps me feel the most. And a lot of that just has to do with like the arc of how it's built. And in some ways, the sort of openness of its message rather than trying to be specific and capture somebody else's story, strangely is really working for me right now. And what I think we're hearing all kinds of approaches to dealing exactly as you said,

how do we cope? And we're hearing it across really different kinds of music. We're hearing it in ballads. We're hearing it in disco fun. We're hearing it in gospel. We're hearing it in campfirey pop songs and in emo rap. It's across the board it feels like it is nice to know that we're all grappling with how to deal with what we're at right now. And we're being offered a lot of different kinds of solutions.

Yeah. And it's also a reminder that no single genre has a monopoly on a mood, so to speak. Hmm. Even if you can title your song, Mood, you don't own it. Switched on POP is produced by Bridget Armstrong, engineered by Brandon McFarlane, illustrations by Iris Gottlieb, and social media by Abby Barr. Our executive producers are

Nshott Karwa and Liz Kelly Nelson, a member of the Box Media Podcast Network, or of course hosted by me, Troy Harding, and Nate Sloan. He wasn't here today. That's because Nate is a brand new dad. It's so exciting. Congratulations, Nate. Congratulations to the entire family, and welcome

baby Sloan. So happy to have you here. While Nate is going to be out for a little while, he's actually pre-produced a really fun little series on what makes anthems so effective. We're talking about the music you hear when you go to the sports arena, you're in the stadium, and the song you've heard a thousand times, but still it gets you stomping your feet, pumping your fist, yelling out loud with everybody. Things we can't do right now and wish we could, but I think going into the music will help take us there. It's a really fun series. We've got four episodes coming up in two weeks. We'll be back again, of course, next week on Tuesday.

Until then, you can find us on any social media platform at Switchdown Pop, and you can get to us on the web atSwitchdownpop.com. Until next week, thanks for listening.