Switched on Pop - Willow Smith rocks harder

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

Coping Mechanism, Willow's new album, is her heaviest music yet. Charlie and Willow chat about the making of the new record and the many multitudes of rock music. Music Discussed The Anxiety - Meet Me At Our Spot Willow - Maybe It's My Fault, UR Town, Human Leach, PrettyGirlz, Lipstick, Why, Breakout, Hover Like a Goddess, Curious/Furious, Ur A Stranger Yungblood - Memories (with Willow) Deftones - Sextape Radiohead - I Will Straight Line Stitch - What You Do To Me Killswitch Engage - My Curse Lamb of God - Redneck Primus - Lacquer Head Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to Switched on Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. A little over a year ago, Nate introduced me to the fact that Willow Smith absolutely rocks. At only 22, Willow has released six studio albums and shows off a lot of musical breadth. Her recently released album coping mechanism is the heaviest, hardest hitting work she's made yet. And as someone who formerly played a lot of loud power chords on guitar,

I wanted to speak with Willow about the making of this album. So here she is. I am Willow Smith. Willow, you had a huge success in 2021 with Meet Me at Our Spot. Yes. You wrote a song about catching a vibe that literally caught a vibe. Yes. Now you've got a new album coping mechanism that has a much heavier, sometimes darker sound. What's the story that led up to the creation of coping mechanism?

You know, I, with lately I feel everything. You know, I had always wanted to make a rock-inspired album. And even in my first album, Art Epithicus, most of the songs were guitar-driven. On my second album, the first, I had a song called Human Leach. You are a Human Leach. That was like seven-string guitars and like growling vocals in the background. And even in Willow, there were some like psychedelic rock.

influences. So rock and the guitar have always been kind of my inspiration. But with coping mechanism, that was the first time that I really wanted to mix my love for like metal, the harder side of rock with like ethereal sounds because I had done a lot of like big harmonies and beautiful melodies. But I had never really, I mean, I guess lipstick off of lately I feel Everything was a song that kind of had those big operatic melodies, those big harmonies. It wasn't as hard, it wasn't as dark, but that was kind of like a bridge into this new area. Yeah, I just wanted to go in a weird way. I wanted to go prettier and also uglier than I had ever been before. And I feel like I did a pretty good job.

For coping mechanism, you collaborated with the producer and guitarist Chris Criotti. How did you all get together and how did the album begin? I had done a session with Youngblood, which was amazing. We did a song called Memories Together. And I had met Chris in that session. Chris Griotti is a bubble gum pop metal sorcerer musical wizard. And we just clicked. There are some people who are.

meant to be business partners. There are some people who are meant to be siblings. There are some people who are meant to be lovers. And there are some people who are meant to make music. So we got into the studio and we're bouncing off ideas. And he's just playing riffs. I mean, I walk in and he's just holding the guitar. And he's playing different things and I'm like, oh, I like that.

Maybe a little bit less like this. Maybe put that riff in the beginning. Maybe we do whatever, whatever. and we're vibing really, really strong. Yeah. Face to face, just guitar and two people. And then we start putting things in the computer. And once we started putting things in the computer, I was like,

hmm, okay. I kept on telling him, I'm not making an album. I don't want to make an album. I just want to have fun because I had just put out lately, I feel everything. And I was just like, I don't really want to do another album so soon. Yeah. And it happened pretty darn fast, way faster than I,

than I anticipated. Tell me about that first song. The first song we did was Why. I was writing Chris. He was cutting up some drum loops. What's really, really cool is that he has a friend who is a really amazing drummer, who sends him a bunch of live drum loops. And so everything is live, which is really, really cool.

But then he cuts up the live drum loop. What is the vibe of why to you? Like when you're getting out of that room, what are you feeling? What is the emotion that you all conjured in that first day? Because I didn't really know how it was going to go, I just kind of wanted to not get too deep. I mean, my perception of not too deep is, I don't want to keep feeling alone.

Isolation got me going psycho. I don't want to keep feeling alone. isolation got me going psycho. I just want to, I just want to. I just got to stop asking myself why. That sounds like a down chorus, which is something that I had never really done before. I was kind of nervous about it because I was like,

oh, people are gonna get bored, like, but then the verses come and it's like, I just am screaming. When that breakdown happens, that's one of my favorite parts of the song. And because everything else was very emotional, that kind of just brings it right into almost like, A classic rock metal moment. I still wasn't convinced I was going to make an album,

even after we had finished that first song. And then we got together again a couple weeks later, and we made maybe it's my fault. It made me rethink everything that I had said before. Yeah, what changed? How I like to make albums, I never go into the studio saying, I'm going to make an album, let's go.

I never do that. I always am like haphazardly in the studio. I, you know, collaborating with different people, going in by myself, whatever, whatever. And there's always one song that is the mother of the album. Like for lately, I feel everything, Transparent Soul was the mother of that album. From that song was birthed all the other songs. This song just needs to have a bunch of kids, and that's the album. That's how I think about it.

There seems to be some kind of larger truth to that process of being like, I'm just doing this for fun. Something is happening. Do you have to ignore the pressure of the larger project in order for that just sort of magical thing to happen? Once I have the seed, once I have the mother song, it's all turned into excitement because now I know exactly what I'm doing. So there's like a switch that flips? 100%. And maybe it's my fault was that song.

And I was like, wow, this is the mother track. This is the one that I want all of the other. songs to kind of take the DNA from. What is that DNA? That DNA is the kick-ass, hard, dark guitars with the unexpected, emotional and kind of creepy, main vocal and harmony. What role has heavy music played in your life? I mean, it reminds me of my childhood, weirdly enough, some of the first concerts I ever

went to were metal concerts. It's very close to my heart and it's just badass. That's really how I feel to put it plainly. And that was always a vibe that I really enjoyed with the deaf tones. The spookiness of the vocal, I really wanted, and the harmonies even, I really wanted to be inspired by Radiohead. I was listening to a lot of straight line stitch as well. and Chill Switch Engage Lamb of God In an interview with NME You said that you'd like to work With Les Claypool of Primus Oh my goodness, yes

Oh yes Lackerhead is fantastic Lackerhead Dachda-Dun Do you I love it so much But okay The stats besides the point

I was listening to a lot of different things And I just wanted to kind of put it all together Maybe it's my fault becomes sort of like the parent of the rest of the record. So that song comes along. Yeah. What's going on in your head? How do you arrive at? We need to keep doing this and this is going to birth many children.

Because I kept on saying I wasn't making an album. And so then I looked at him and I was like, I think I'm making, I think we're making an album. And Chris cracked up laughing. And I was like, and I was like, well, here we go again. And so, yeah, it was really that simple. It was really that simple. he was waiting for me to wake up to the, I wake up to the truth of the matter, which is that we were doing something brilliant. And yeah, I just looked at him and I was like, I guess we're

making an album. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharpova and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay. Ready? Ready. Do not sugarcoat something for me. No, no. No. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being

unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. Immigration may be Donald Trump's signature issue. President Trump is now targeting predominantly democratic cities for ice raids and deportations. Dozens of protesters clashing with immigration and customs enforcement agents in Minneapolis Tuesday. We will begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to do in this space is talk about America and politics. beyond the current president.

So what do most Americans think about deportation and border security, period? I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ICE. When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want border at the border.

They don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. The view on immigration from the bottom up instead of the top down. That's this week on America Actually, every Saturday in your audio and video feeds. Your music contains a lot of multitudes. It has a lot of different vibes that it plays with.

Rock itself contains multitudes. Yes, it does. And that's what I want people to understand. I feel like we're stuck in this kind of like pop punk world where it's like, people called lately I feel everything a pop punk record. But if you listen to it, the only pop punk songs on that record are gaslight. and grow. Transparent soul, it's raw, but I wouldn't necessarily call it pop punk. Lipstick

don't save me. All of these different songs are like, they have almost an operatic feeling to them. They have almost like, it's way more like musically complex than pop punk. And there's classic rock, there's psychedelic rock. There's drone rock. There's all these different kinds of rock exactly like you're saying. And I want people to realize that, like, we can open our eyes to all of these different multitudes of rock, just like you said. Like, I think about a song on your latest album, like Hover Like a Goddess. Mm-hmm. Where we have jazz chords.

Yeah. We have ska. We have garage rock. Totally. When we made Hover Like a Goddess, I was like, yes. This is the kind of music that I want to make. One of the things that stands out to me on this album is that your vocal goes to so many different places, often within a song or even within a section of a song. Yeah.

So that when we're listening to a song like Curious, Furious, for example, we get hushed willow. We get like really pointed in your face, Willow. We get screaming to the point where you're like, I don't know if she's holding it together, Willow. Exactly. Yes. Yes. How do you approach your vocal performance? So in order to really explain that, I have to take it back a little bit.

When the pandemic started, I went into training mode. I was training super, super hard on my vocal, getting very technical with all of the bad habits that I had gained over the years and really trying to like unravel and then reconstruct my vocal again. For a while there, I mean, I just kind of hit a wall. I was like, my voice isn't doing the things that I wanted to do and I need to work hard to get it to a place where it can accurately express what I'm trying to say. And while I was in that process, I was recording lately I Feel Everything. You can kind of hear me trying to come out of my vocal shell

in that album a little bit. But during coping mechanism, while I was recording Curious Furious, I was kind of holding back a little bit. Like I was like, okay, I want the lyrics and the content to be the shining star here. The wind in the trees whispering mathematics. That's one of my favorite lines on the album.

I think that's just fantastic. During the verses, I kind of just wanted to let the content, let the lyrics be the shining star and just kind of hold back. But then when the furious part comes in with, I don't want to stop. All the verses before that

were me being curious and having kind of that compassionate, warm, kind of feminine approach to it all. But then I'm just like, fuck this. I'm sick of trying to learn all of these things that are causing me so much pain. I don't want to start a fight. I don't want to resist life. I don't want to resist ultimate truth, but I kind of want to because I'm really angry about what's happening in my life right now.

You change your vocal register in how you approach singing that line. 100%. But that was to personify or to exemplify, rather, the emotional sentiment of the line. That's a lot of walking through a dark and forth is going home. Curious, furious, I feel... That's a lot of how I approached my vocals on the album. What is the sentiment calling for? What's the emotion here?

And how do I accurately portray that in the vocal? So it's like, yeah, I'm super chill. I'm trying to be patient. I'm trying to allow this. But now I don't want to allow this anymore. And I'm over it. And at the drop of a dime, I'm just like, I'm sick and tired. You know what I mean?

When things are feeling really heated, there are moments where your voice almost cracks, where it's at its edge. But as I'm listening to the song, it's clear that, oh, yeah. I'm at my emotional edge as well. You can re-record and comp a vocal as many times as you want, but you want the crack. Oh, no, the crap. Okay, specifically on the like, that specific part. Yeah. So this is the thing. It's a little bit easier for me to sing it straight without the crackle.

If that makes any sense, without the dirt on it. Dirt and your voice is unhealthy. Like, if you use too much rasp in the wrong way, you can truly permanently injure your voice. 100%. So what I like to do is start with that pretty plain foundation of like I'm reaching the note in the healthiest, strongest way that I possibly can. There were two takes of that line where I did it straight. And the take that we used was where I kind of pushed it a little bit and put just threw some dirt on it because I was like, in order to really express what I'm emotionally trying to say, I need to go outside, grab some dirt, and eat it.

You know what I mean? And then sing the line again. So for a lack of better term. But yeah, you're completely right. Like, that was a very calculated and thought out and intentional thing. I mean, me and Chris even had a talk about it, like, should we leave it clean? Should we do it so and so? And I was like, no, the emotion calls for it.

And that's what led me throughout the entire song. And what led me throughout the entire album was following that emotional curve. You really push to the outer boundaries of vocal health and emotion on you're a stranger, where you just go straight into screaming. But there's actually a healthy way to scream. You trained to scream. I found out a way to scream where I don't lose my voice. Sure.

I should train to scream, but I kind of just found a way that works for me, and I think everyone kind of has to do that. And there are people that can teach you how to scream. I just haven't met those people, but I should. I really should. But it's working for me. It's been working for me. I haven't lost my voice.

What did you need to scream on you're a stranger? The emotion of that song is anger, abandonment, and a deep sense of loss. I'm not the kind of person that like to manufacture a moment. I like to go with the authenticity of the feeling. And that's just what it called for. I mean, if you listen to the lyrics, it paints a picture. of a lost love, to say the least, and of just feeling abandoned.

And I think when we feel abandoned, we sometimes we get angry, you know, and I just needed to express that. What do you hope that people are going to get from this album? I hope people understand that in order to become the most amazing, versions of ourselves and the most mature and the most beautiful and the most potently honest versions of ourselves, we have to face the darkness and we have to look at the sides of

ourselves that we don't want to look at. And we have to hold the hand of our scared inner child and our raging inner child and be like, I got you. And I'm not afraid of you and I'm not going to ignore you and we're going to work through this. I hope that it inspires people to look at their shadows and try to accept the parts of themselves that they haven't before. Switched-on Pop is produced by Rihanna Cruz, engineered by Brandon McFarland, edited by Jolie Myers-Meyers, Community Management by Abbey Barr, Illustrations by Iris Gottlieb. Our executive producers are Hannah Rosen and Ashok Kerouk, a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network

and a production of Vulture. You can find our show anywhere you get podcasts. on our website, switch to on pop.com, and on social media at Switchedonpop on Instagram and Twitter for as long as it lasts. And while it does still exist, I would love to hear what you're listening to in the world of Willow. We'll be back again next Tuesday. And until then, thanks for listening. Convierte your passion in a business with Shopify and bathe records of ventas with the form of pay with a better conversion of the world. Has you heard of the best?

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