TAKE ONE Presents... - Pod With Us If You Want To Live 7: Outro

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

In this epilogue to their Terminator series, Simon and Jim wrap up their thoughts on the franchise as a whole, explore what the directors of these films went on to do, give their final rankings of the films in the franchise, and expand on their thoughts on the impact of capital on this franchise through how the rights were passed around in a way that makes the franchise more of a commodity than a creative endeavour.Our Letterboxd rankings for the Terminator franchise are available at https://letterboxd.com/jimgr/list/terminator-franchise-ranked-take-one-presents/ and https://letterboxd.com/simonxix/list/terminator-ranking/Content warnings: capitalism; misogyny and patriarchy; nuclear war and apocalyptic destruction; murder and violent death.Our theme song is Terminator Theme Song (32Stitches Remix) by 32Stitches available on SoundCloud at https://soundcloud.com/32stitches/terminator-32stitches-remix

Hello and welcome back to Take One Presents Pod with us if you want to live, a podcast where we've watched all the Terminator franchise films in order, contextualizing them and critiquing them. I'm Simon Bowie. I'm joined by my co-host Jim Ross. Hi Jim. Hello. So we've finished. We've finished the Terminator franchise. We've watched all six films. Not a mammoth undertaking. Not like the alien franchise was the biggest one we've done. But yeah, six films from 1984 to 2019, and we've watched them all, and have a vague idea of the shape of the franchise. Now, well, a firmer idea than we did have. So this is our wrap-up episode at the end of every season. We do a wrap-up episode where we talk about the trajectory of the franchise,

what the future of the franchise is, what directors are doing now, and just generally wrapping up our thoughts on Terminator. Yeah, so what are your thoughts on the franchise now we've seen all the films? Your thoughts as a whole. It's, um... The average... The average quality of it really does kind of get dragged down over time, really. You know, I think we'll talk about what, you know, our ranking is, and I don't think it's kind of like,

a slow... I think a lot of people would probably characterize this as a slow decline, right? You know, particularly when we're talking about Dark Fate and Genesis. I don't think I agree with that. That being

said, it is a general kind of not fall from grace, but kind of stumble from it at least. I also have some thoughts that we'll probably get into a little bit, about the way the rights for this franchise have been like passed around is an interesting one because I feel like there's a desperation to use those rights here and the film kind of the sequels kind of

came too early you know I feel like if it had a proper legacy sequel you'd either like some hud other franchises it might be in a better position to capitalize on some of the ideas it set up. So it's an odd duck. I feel like it really is the oddest one of the films that we've looked at, right? We've spoken about identity crises

with the previous franchises most extensively with the alien one. I think this has it as well, but it's a different expression of it, right? And it's more one of incoherence

rather than anything else. So yeah, overall, it's kind of, it's a bit mixed. It's got two very, very, just superb entries, and then a bunch of others which are decent to shit. Yeah, it's a funny one for the franchises we've looked at because it's not quite consistently making films, which I think Mission Impossible kind of is, but there's not a huge break either.

Like the largest break is 1991 to 2003, Terminator 2 to Terminator 3. And Terminator 3 is just a direct sequel. It's not a legacy sequel or anything. So whereas with like Jurassic Park, you have the huge break between franchises and then get this legacy sequel, Jurassic World, which is a reboot. With Terminator, you have three in a series and then like free reboots, essentially, coming on the back of one another very quickly, or fairly quickly, 2009, 2015, 2019,

each one saying up a separate kind of continuity that is in dialogue with the previous three films, but is also taking wild leaps with canon and whatnot. It is setting up different narrative strands. So, yeah, like you say, you don't end up with this legacy sequel, you don't end up with this reboot

in any kind of way which you do with so let's think about alien like Prometheus is a break from what came before obviously in dialogue with it but is kind of narratively a break with what came before and sets up this new path

path doesn't go very far because it ends of Alien Covenant but nonetheless And then Jurassic Park We just talked about It has this clear break between the Jurassic Park trilogy and the Jurassic World films Until it doesn't

Much to his day Yeah Yeah yeah It's all muddled and whatever And And I think we talked about Mission Impossible Having a pretty clear delineation

Between the first three films and the last, whatever it is, after they stop putting numbers on them, there is a change in how they are structured and put together, but they are of a coherent piece. You know, the films from, what's it called, Bradbirds one onwards, it's not Rogue Nation, Ghost Protocol.

Yeah. From Ghost Protocol onwards, they feel coherent, and the tone shifts, and they get into this mould that persists through the franchise. But here you have a fairly coherent, a stable start, Terminator 1 and Terminator 2, feel very stable and very locked together. Terminator 3 is a weird appendix, and then every film after that attempts to reboot it,

but doesn't really succeed. I mean they were all intended to be the start of new trilogies. which is a wild film production, but they don't work. And I think a film that keeps popping into my head as we're talking about this actually, right? This is not a particularly great comparison, but I'll explain why it's popping into my head, right? Is Batman begins, right? Now, the reason this pops into my head is... Because of Christian Bale.

Well, actually, yeah, now that I think about it. It sounds exactly like John Connor. But it was a big franchise reboot, right? You know, and in the case of that one, you know, it had run itself into the ground with Batman Robin, and there was quite a big gap. And it came back to it. And it was a very different, different tone. But the thing is, right, everybody kind of, and maybe I'm being revisionist here, but I don't think I am. I remember the instance.

insane clamor over the dark night, right? It's one of the few times I've gone to a cinema and, like, you know, insane cues to buy tickets and things. Like, I remember that being a huge deal, and that came off the back of that, right? Batman begins itself at the time wasn't... I don't think it made a huge... I mean, it made good money, right? It was well regarded, but it wasn't kind of like...

It wasn't the kind of cultural moment that the Dark Knight became. and it's kind of like basically we have had four attempts now three attempts right salvation genesis and dark fate essentially for the Terminator franchise to have its Batman Begins moment

right a film that sets up enough interesting ideas and is well enough executed that people get excited about this franchise again, right? Yes.

And we've had three failures. To varying degrees, right? You know, like we discuss Dark Fate. I think Dark Fate is a lot better than kind of the reputation that has at the moment, you know. Yeah. You know, attributes to it. But ultimately, it doesn't really work, right? and to my mind

that comes from partially I think the fact that their husband since James Cameron was involved their has been a lack of I think it just comes down to the fact it just feels a bit creatively and narratively bankrupt really

like there is no vision here and I think maybe part of that does come from this fact that the rights have been tossed around like a dog toy, you know, whereas if you look at something like Batman McGins, like, you know, and like, you know,

I like Chris Nolan as a director. Some people do, some people do. Some people don't, you know, no point getting into it here. But the point is there is a vision there, right? There is a tone in a vision there. For all of the faults of the alien prequels in Prometheus and Covenant,

I do feel like there's a vision there. There's ideas there. You know, I think we're, let's say the Jurassic World sequels kind of fall down is because there isn't, right? It leans into the iconography of it. And it's just, that's the feeling of me. It's one of it incoherence. It doesn't know where to go.

And I think that's because the business part of it has dominated it. I think there's a bunch of people who have been in charge of progressing these films who do not understand just at a basic level what was good about the first two. Yeah, there's really something missing. And it comes down to the Genesis problem. Like, in our episode on Genesis, I talked about how I liked the first half hour, recontextualizing what we already know, but doing it in a different way, wiping the whiteboard and then starting anew.

But then it doesn't start a new, it just does the same thing again. And that's what all these films do, essentially. after two onwards, they all just do the same thing, or variations on the same thing. So Terminator 3 is just Terminator 2 again. You know, a good Terminator comes to battle, a bad Terminator. Terminator salvation takes it in a different direction, but it is still all the same plot points merged together. There's a Terminator who is, you know, unsure about his identity and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Terminator Genesis literally just does the same thing again. Good Terminator protecting someone and Terminator Dark Fate is essentially the same thing again. Done better than the others but this is the same narrative structure. And they just get bogged down in this. They get bogged down in it being the same thing. And I think you mentioned the rights. That's a really interesting point. We've discussed it on previous episodes, but

tracing the rights to this franchise is a really interesting and productive way to look at how that impacts the creative vision of these films and how that impacts the screenwriters, the directors and how they put these together. Because it is a franchise where the rights have just been tossed around as a commodity and traded from company to company. And that has a huge impact on the storytelling or lack thereof in the past in the last free film. Yeah, and it's interesting. It does feel like a bit of a victim from the sort of like Terminator 3 period onwards, right? Not the first two. It does feel kind of

it's a victim of this absolutely tortured business model in Hollywood. Right, and I watched a video recently which went through studio acquisition timelines, right? you know, like starting with kind of like the silent film era through classic Hollywood, like who acquired who and what catalogs went to whom and all the rest. And it is utterly bizarre. Like it is just, it's just mental. Now, the term rare rights have kind of like sat outside that a little bit, right?

So I'm not saying that that is to blame for it. But I am kind of drawing a parallel in the sense that when you look at the kind of like incoherence of streaming catalogs and brand and franchise identities now is because it's all tied up in these decades of like

American corporate shenanigans, right? And this feels like a sort of like little micro example of it right? Because this has been tossed around so much as not as a creative endeavor as an asset

a financial asset, right, to be, it's been, like, it's almost kind of like, the people who find themselves in charge of the story here have made it a commodity, right? It's not a piece, you know, I don't want to get too, too grand about it, but I do want to get a little kind of like grand about it. At some point, it ceased to be a work of art, right? Yeah. It ceased to be a creative expression and it's become, you know, it's become a product, right? And cinema always exists in this duality, right? I'm not going to be too purest about this, particularly big budget, Hollywood films like this. They always have this kind of like art business duality. That's just the world we live in and, you know, that's something I, you know, I've come to peace with. But in this case, this is one where the complete business incoherence here, I do think has had a fundamental effect on how good it is. actually ended up not only as a work of art, but also as a product. It's not one that anybody understands anymore, and nobody has any incentive to do so.

And I think that probably explains the pretty poor financial performance of the last two entries in particular. Yeah, you can see it seeping into the films. Like, being passed around like a commodity, it seeps in and it makes it creatively incoherent because there is no follow-through. There is no one leading this. There's no, you know, Christopher McCrory directing the last Mission Impossible films. There's no Steven Spielberg,

executive producing the Jurassic Park films and Jurassic World films. There is no continuity behind the scenes, and you feel that in the creative vision, which is incoherent. All these aborted, reboots that don't go anywhere because no one has

a plan well they have vague plans but they can't bring them to to fruition because yeah and that's the thing for me actually that you fit upon there is vague plans right they're too vague right because

in terms of kind of like there being no continuity and all the rest of it to a certain extent like I don't want to say a franchise can get away with it. But it can still do something distinctive, right? I mean, we spoke at length in The Impossible Pod about those first four mission possible films, right? And how it is fucking stylistic whiplash, right? In terms of the general approach, and even some of the character stuff with Ethan Hunt, there's not necessarily a lot of continuity, right? But for better

or worse, right? The first film, it's a Brian De Palma film. The second one, It's a John Wu film. The third one, much for worse, in my opinion on that one, it's a JJ Abrams film. The fourth one is definitely a Brad Bird film. I actually watched Incredibles recently, and I kind of like really, really noticed it there, right? So there's a lack of continuity there,

but there's still a creative vision in each individual one. Christopher McCawry, you have the consistency. Is it as strong a creative vision? I don't think so, but it's there, right? You know, that kind of like muscular action type approach. There's something there. Here, from Terminator 3 onwards, there isn't. And something that I think we'll probably go on to talk about it,

and certainly we have done previous kind of wrap-up episodes, is looking at kind of like what the directors did afterwards. Yes. I think, frankly, you see that in the careers of these directors. And I don't want to cast aspersions on any of them, particularly Alan Taylor, who's done some very good television work, and Tim Miller's done a couple of films that are fine. but there's nothing

on that level that you get for some of those other directors I just mentioned for Mission Possible for instance. I think you could say the same thing for Gareth Edwards even with kind of like, you know, if you go outside his Jurassic World film, I think it's particularly the case

for a lot of the alien directors we're talking about. Like, there's nothing in you know, there's nothing in Terminator 3 that makes me think this is a Jonathan Mostow film. There's nothing to... Actually, I mean, there are things in Terminator Salvation

to make me think this is a McGee film, but not very positive. There's nothing in Genesis that makes me think this is an Alan Taylor film. There's nothing really, apart from maybe some of the special effects, that makes me think Dark Fate is a Tim Miller film.

And that's why. Is there something there? Yes, but it's very weak. It's very weak. And that's why nobody remembers these films, really, in my view. Yeah, the lack of distinctiveness that links to the lack of creative vision. Yeah.

And you can make franchise films with vague plans. So I'm thinking of the Star Wars sequel trilogy where famously they just didn't have a plan for the story of the trilogy. They were playing exquisite corpse where each director was writing. a new film based on the previous one. And so you end up with this huge disjointedness between Ryan Johnson's entry and J.J. Abrams's entry. But they had enough money to carry that forward. They had enough money to push that forward.

And of course you had in background Kathleen Kennedy as a producer really working away and ensuring this franchise got made. Whereas you don't have that for Terminator. Like if they produce a bad first film, there's no one. pushing it. There's no one who decides where we're still sticking on this train. We can right the ship.

They'll just abandon it because it's a money-making commodity. If it doesn't make enough money for the Halcyon company or whoever owns it, a company shuts down. Yeah, whatever. You know these stories you hear about if a cat goes sit on somebody's hospital bed

or something, then the person dies the next day? I feel like the Terminator writes are that. for film studios, you know? Yeah. But I think the thing that, the thing that this maybe sounds a bit businessy, right? Which is a bit hypocritical, given I've just kind of like railed against business for basically killing this franchise. But I think it's important, right?

It's hard to avoid business talk with this franchise. Like, we are getting into the rights a lot more than we have on previous films. But it's hard to avoid because it is, it's, the franchise is like, like, like, like you've said, an asset, like I've said a commodity. It is just something that is passed around these capitalist, you know, mega corporations. Yeah, and right. And so the thing is, right, whilst I've been criticise that, if we approach this in terms of the people who've bought the rights up,

like a commodity asset, we'd understand. What I'm seeing here is very much a failure of strategy by leading into tactics, right? this has been tactically deployed to make money when it needed to, right? But there has been absolutely no strategic thinking about where they want to go with this. And you can see that lack of consideration now in that the thing I keep coming to is, so Dark Fate came out in, what was it, was it 2019? Yes. Yeah, right?

So just before COVID and before anybody, like, The irony is, there's this absolute, in my view, right, sitting here in 2026, and I'm sure they're coming, right? You know, because there'll be stuff in production, films take a long time to me. There's an absolute vacuum of cinematic work which deals with this idea of the impact of AI on society. when it is all anybody is talking about right now. It dominates the economy. It's dominating labour market talk. It's dominating policymaking talk.

It's everywhere. Right. And I genuinely cannot think of a blockbuster media franchise that would be better placed to meet this moment thematically than the Terminator franchise. Yeah. Right. Like an entire subplot going through the second film, one of the best regarded action films of all time, is how much can this machine become a human? Right. And there's just this absolutely, you know, like it's ready made there. But because you've tactically exhausted this thing that you've acquired, you've complete, you have a complete, you have a complete, absence of strategy and you have no ability to then use it to meet this moment and make some

sort of cultural comment on this, right? Films have tried, mission possible to talk about another franchise that we've looked at, tried to do it, and did it poorly. It did it in this caricature way. To an extent, actually, even with the, you know, the synth stuff, alien earth tries. to do it. Prometheus and Covenant kind of like, you know, had something before then that was a little bit more than the older mode of thinking about this stuff

from a sci-fi perspective. But when you're thinking about kind of like what exactly will these machines do, what impact will this have, how much, like there's nothing that it would have been better place to do this in this franchise,

but they've just completely exhausted it on time travel mumbo, Jumbo, crap action, and, you know, wheeling out Arnold in his, like, wheelchair. And they've spent it. Like, if it's a commodity, they've used all of that commodity. They've been so desperate to cash in on that commodity. They've now got none left when they could make so much more of it. They've sold low when they could have sold high, right, to go.

continue to lead into the business won't speak. And I think that that I find as somebody who loves those first two films is really good. It's really frustrating. It is actually really frustrated to have made an absolute art of it.

Yeah, I mean, this leads us quite nicely onto the future of the franchise, what future there may be. But I just want to briefly linger on this. Because I think you're right, like the Terminator franchise would be uniquely placed to talk about AI and the influence of AI on our lives and stuff.

But cynically, I think this is exactly why a company wouldn't want to make a Terminator film. Because a company in the current climate is inevitably getting into AI and investing large amounts in what we call AI. They absolutely wouldn't want to make a film. that suggests that AI is a bad thing or, you know, destructive to the human soul or whatever, or whatever the Pope said. That said, there is also this kind of counter-narrative of people talking about how AI, what we call AI in the context, is going to, you know, take over the world and destroy humanity and stuff like that, which is also buying into the media narrative,

the corporate narrative of this kind of AI as a transformative tool when it's actually just fancy predictive text. So maybe there is a place for it. But the thing is. I think it's complicated by the current corporate positioning of AI as an inevitability. You know, companies want to show AI in a positive light, which isn't necessarily what this franchise... does. That's true. The one thing I would say is, I think, like...

To be clear, I think that's what would be interesting. That would be an interesting thing for the films to do, and I don't see a studio making that kind of interesting, you know, interrogation of AI. Yeah, I don't know, it's just I can see a scenario in this very convoluted world that exists in the Terminator franchise of, like, contrasting this very science fiction-driven apocalyptic vision of AI against the, you know, like, we're not going to get into discussion about Jenny I, there's relative merits and lack of merit and all the rest of it. But like, in terms of like where it actually kind of like sits in its effectiveness, it's a mirage right now, you know, right? Yeah, exactly. And I, you know, there's something

there about like the way things are presented and contrasting the classic sci-fi AI against this and you know how much is a threat what are they a threat too like there's something there but the thing is that requires

creative vision to unpick that right as you can tell by the fact that I can't do it in about like 10 seconds speaking on this podcast but like there's something there right if you have a story to tell and a creative vision to attach to that this has the building block to build something out of it

but they're not interesting that. The one the rights to scroll something on an app can sell it, you know. Yeah. Yeah, before we get on to the future of the franchise, which is a lot of talk about AI, I recently, my friend of mine recently passed me

a link to a fan edit of Prometheus and Alien Covenant called Paradise. You heard about this? I don't know. There's a fan edit by Job Willing. A golden reference on. I guess so. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a fan edit by Job Willings, and he has combined Prometheus and Alien Covenant into a single David-centric narrative. Now, I haven't watched this. This edited version runs 2.5 hours. But that's an interesting way to go about it, to talk about the focus on AI and humanity,

because that is what David's function is in those two films. So maybe I'll watch that at some point, but just to highlight it. But yeah, in terms of the future of Terminator films, there's actually been a Terminator thing that has come out since Terminator Dark Fate, as well as Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles, which I don't know if you've seen. I've seen a few episodes of it. I haven't seen it as entirety. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting.

it's quite well regarded I think but to me it's good some good performances but it still has that kind of like you know naughty's American network television it's like cheapness to it for one of a better to be honest yeah but apart

from that there is a series called Terminator Zero which was an anime series that came out on Netflix in 2024 this took place in Japan without any ties to the Connor family and instead had entirely new characters dealing with robot assassins and soldiers from the future. I haven't seen it, hadn't even heard about it until I was researching this,

but potentially interesting. In the English dub, The Terminator is voiced by Timothy Oliphant. Anyway, so that came out. Apparently it was well regarded, but I literally never heard about it. So I don't know whether that's to do with Netflix's marketing or whatever. But in terms of the future of the Terminator franchise, James Cameron has talked about this a lot because I believe he now has the rights or he's a lot more involved in production than he was. And James Cameron has been on the Smartless podcast where he talked about if I were to do another Terminator film and maybe to launch that franchise again, which is in discussion, I would make it much more about the AI side of it

than bad robots gone crazy. So clearly, James Cameron's thinking about AI and stuff. Yeah, a year later, in 2023, a Twitter user called Rob Macardo tweeted, so James Cameron just told the Dell Tech World crowd. What a great place for a director to talk about his creative vision. you. This is like when you find out about fucking Disney films

like the Disney investor call or something it's just like oh Christ of I shoot me in the face yeah James Cameron addressing the Dell Tech World conference that he started writing a new Terminator movie three months ago but he wants to see how AI

shakes out before he goes any further like it's like it's a five minute experiment that will be done by the end of the year. It's supposed to get it shakes out. It's just ridiculous. I wasn't even mean that's like going back however long it was and saying,

yeah, no, I would write something, but I want to see how the printing press shakes out. What are you talking about? Yeah, I wouldn't publish a website, but I want to see how the internet shakes out. In James Cameron's defence, there have been a lot of changes. in what we talk about as AI since 2023.

There's a huge shift in how we talk about things now compared to 2023 and a lot more LLM technology, a lot more Gen AI stuff, a lot more machine learning. So, yeah, I could see telling the Dell Tech World Conference, you want to see how things shake out, but I don't know, it feels a little creatively bankrupt, like you've implied. But Cameron is thinking about AI a lot.

And, you know, Cameron likes to be first to try things. You know, he did a lot of tech stuff on the Avatar films, a lot of pioneering CGI work and stuff like that. So Cameron does have his fingers in kind of AI pies. He's actually advised filmmakers to not replace actors with artis. official intelligence. He said that while actors may be expensive, they are not generic but idiosyncratic. He's actually said that the only use of AI in filmmaking should be pre-visualisation,

just for putting together kind of pre-vis, pre-production stuff, which I think is an interesting take from him, because a lot of filmmakers, I recently saw that Gareth Edwards has talked about getting all into AI for filmmaking, Gen AI, and using it essentially as a second unit director. Yeah. And it's coming. I'm pretty, I mean, I think there have been, like, AI, things pitched as AI films, a few film festivals.

Like, I just read this morning. I think there's some film that's, like, premier in the Tribeca, which is AI made. You know, like, it's a thing. The train has left the station. The Glasgow Short Film Festival a couple of years. ago. I wrote a piece on it for Take OnCinema.net, which you can read. The festival was themed around AI. So there were a lot of films that were using, kind of AI tools to generate things. I found that the more obviously a tool had been used extensively, the less good the film was. And the more obvious human intervention there was, the better the film was. But that was a couple of years ago. I think it's just interesting that Cameron has this cautious approach knowing Cameron as someone who goes headlong into various tech things

he still advocates this cautious approach when it comes to AI interesting Yeah I mean it is interesting but it's more He does seem kind of like the character where For all that he leaps into new technology he is very much, from what I can see, of the, it's a tool mindset, you know. And I think you see that quite clearly in the Avatar films, right? Yeah.

He is still trying to tell a story. Yes. I don't think it's been a particularly great story in the context of the kind of the, the Avatar films, in particular, the sequels. But that is what he's doing in service of. It's not, like, I see a lot of people describe the Avatar films as, like, tech demos. I don't think that's right. I think that's...

Yeah. I don't think that's accurate. The fact that the story's a bit overwhelming doesn't make it a tech demo. It is crafted as a story. Yeah, he has something he wants to say. And then you look at things kind of like, you know, the abyss and Terminator 2's effects and things.

Exactly. It is usually always in service of stuff, you know? Yeah. You know, Avatar is trying to say something. I'm not interested in what it's trying to say, but it is trying to say something. So there is that. also in the kind of future of the franchise

Schwarzenegger obviously very embedded in the franchise and the future of it Schwarzenegger has said the franchise is not done I'm done I got the message loud and clear that the world wants to move on

were a different theme when it comes to the Terminator he said someone has to come up with a great idea which is kind of what we've said the Terminator was largely responsible for my success so I always look at it very fondly

the first three movies were great number four was not number four I was not in because I was governor then five and six didn't close the deal as far as I'm concerned we knew that ahead of time because they were just not well written it's it's cute do you think starrnery

three is well really yeah yeah that's the first three movies were great the first three movies are great all right Arnold I don't know man sure and then Linda Hamilton

Linda Hamilton obviously very involved in the franchise as well as a major star for this. Linda Hamilton has told Business Insider, again, another interesting outlet for entertainment news. I know. An interview with Business Insider, Linda Hamilton said, I'm done, I'm done, I have nothing more to say. The story's been told and it's been done to death. Why anybody would relaunch it is a mystery to me, but I know our Hollywood world is based. is built on relaunches right now. So a bit of a more candid to take

from Linda Hamilton. Yeah, and I'll tell you something, I don't blame for that more candidate because I think if there is any actor amongst the various people who have been in these films who has been who

those sequels have been more of a disservice to than Linda Hamilton, I'd like to meet them. Right? Because I think And we said this during the Dark Fate episode. I think if you look at Dark Fate, she had a lot to give. There was more in her performance.

Well, first of all, I think her performance there was pretty good. But it does show in terms of contribution to other films, potentially in this franchise, she had a lot to give, and they could have got a lot from it. But they've showed zero interest in it in three and four. and in five the flat out recaster you know and that

that I find interesting as well you know yeah you know like the aging male star has brought back multiple times

and all the rest of it but the you know arguably much more expressive female star is not until it's kind of like a proper Hail Mary

frankly yeah he's brought back once and and then kind of discarded. Yeah. Yeah. So Hamilton and Schwarzenegger out of the future of the franchise.

But Cameron, it still is working on more films. He has confirmed that he is still working on a new Terminator film, but is struggling to come up worse story. He's been working on this more in earnest following the release of Avatar Fire and Ash and said,

there needs to be a broader interpretation of Terminator and the idea of a time war and super intelligence. I want to do new stuff that people aren't imagining. I mean, I mean, is he, though? Is he working on a Terminator film in the same way that

I've been working on a feature article about Zadana, 21st century portrait for take one, because there's an ever note in my ever note that dates back like five years? Like, is he working on it in the same way I'm working on that? It sounds like it, yeah. Like, are you James?

you know well I mean we discussed in a previous episode like when he said which what was it he said was good before it came out and then he turned out

it was it genesis he said I mean he was genesis that he said oh it's great and then after he came out he said no I just did that as a favorite to one

oh actually I was full of crap I don't believe anything you say that yeah I think I'll believe you've worked on a Terminator film when I see the trailer for it. Yeah, we've talked about James Cameron quite a bit on this podcast because he did Aliens as well.

And he does seem like quite an unpleasant man. He seems to have mellowed out in recent years, actually. I was reading around this and in 2021 he said that if he could go back in time, he would improve the working relationship with his cast and crew members because he'd been to see Ron Howard director film and he was like astonished at how nice Howard is to his crew

and astonished that you can get results from that which does sound like Ron Howard to me Dickheads and people like nice people shocker. People like nice people and want to work with them. That's why Ron Howard has secretly directed

so much so much stuff so Cameron said he wants to become his inner Ron Howard. God Almighty. It's so much wrong with that sense. He's introspective now he's in his old age. His late period.

But speaking of his late period, on these wrap-up episodes, we run through the franchise directors, and we talk about what they have done since Terminator and what they are doing in the future. So we'll do that. While I was putting this together, I realized that we have never covered a film with a woman director during this whole podcast. Not Alien, not Jurassic Park, not Mission Impossible, not Terminator.

The closest we got is Ugler Hog's daughter, who directed two episodes of Alien Earth. But we didn't really talk about the direction on those films. so yeah and to give ourselves a little bit of a pass here i think that says a lot about how directors are pointed to hollywood franchise yeah 100% anything else you know yeah yeah i'm not necessarily blaming us though you know we do pick the franchises but i do think it speaks to uh how hollywood handles uh women directors uh and and franchise film making but yeah so j james James Cameron directed Terminator 1 and Terminator 2. Since then, he has directed True Lies, which I've never seen, and Titanic, which is decent, if too long.

And then he got really into being a rich guy who has a submarine. So he got really into deep sea exploration and directed a few films about deep sea exploration. Men will literally dive to the bottom of the ocean rather than go to third. Yeah. So he got really into that and then he got really into Avatar and made three Avatar films, which are, well, I've only seen one and I didn't want to see anymore. They're in that category of film that I describe as aggressively fine. Yeah, I'm sure they're fine.

I don't have the time for three hours of fine. Yeah. The last thing he directed was Billy Eilich, Hit Me Hard and Soft, The Tour, Live in FreeD, which I guess is a free-day recording of a tour show. And I suppose we've got more Avatar films coming theoretically. I haven't chained how much money fire and Ash made, but... Yeah, so in terms of what he is working on,

his company bought the rights to the informationist which is a thriller set in Africa that he was slated to direct but hasn't come about he also wanted to adapt a book called The Last Train from Hiroshima which is about Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the atomic bombings

so he did a lot of research around those his company has acquired the rights to a Joe Abercrombie novel called The Devils and he stated that he would begin working on a screenplay for that after Avatar Fire and Ash but he also said that about Terminator so and I imagine he wants to make more Avatar films as well because yeah like you say I don't know how well Avatar Fire and Ash did No, but I mean

He's clearly got a little theme going, right? Because the first one was obviously a sort of Was it the earth one? And then we had the water one, we had the fire one, so we're due to a wind one. Yeah, so Avatar 4 is due out on December 21st, 2029, with James Cameron directing. And then Avatar 5 is due out in 2013.

So presumably they are getting made. there's nothing to indicate that they're not. But yeah, in November 22, 5, Cameron said that the next two sequels wouldn't be produced if Fire and Ash was unsuccessful at the box office. He instead said he would write a book to resolve the plot threads.

Cameron has also said that he would consider making 6th and 7 films if there was demand for them. Jesus Christ! Stop! But he said he'd have to try the successor to direct them. just stop it James with the best will in the world there's not demand for him

he's going to end up he's going to end up a Futurama head in a jar directing Avatar films into like the year 3000 No he'll be directing his successor directing the films He'll be micromanaging

Whoever takes over from him Dear God I mean I would estimate I would probably expect an avatar for. I'm looking at this. The budget for Fire and Ash is down as 350 to 400. But it did make 1.5 billion.

Pretty good. So, like, not as, you know, not quite as good as kind of the original or way of water. But, you know, I don't know. Mm-hmm. It's kind of borderline probably. for bloody expensive films

right so Jonathan's fine you just needs to get them all in 4DX and jack up the price oh yeah people still love going to 3D and 40X screenings that's that's super popular 4DXs is

is it no I'm being sarcastic oh right sorry it's too too too late in the week to pick up on the sarcasm I can't remember if I've ever mentioned the 4DX

my one and only 4DX experience on this podcast I went to see so if anybody doesn't know 4DX right you've got the chairs that move you get scents and water spraying you in the vase yeah and they can do smells

they can spray water the chair can freaking beat you up as well right is the other thing I realize you know like these horrendous massage chairs you get in like down market shopping malls You can sit and pound it, right. Basically, they're kind of like those, but they can move around in the 4DX cinema.

And the film that I made the mistake of going seeing in 4DX, I didn't realize it was 4DX until I got there, because it was a Cine World Unlimited ticket I'd bought, was Aquaman. Oh, hell yeah, a lot of water, I imagine. Yeah, and the opening scene is a fist fight in a thunderstorm. So I was constantly getting sprayed with water. whilst I had a bag, I was meant to be reviewing this goddamn

so I was trying to take notes in this chair while I got water sprayed at me and at one point I think Nicole Kidman's character gets a spear through her shoulder and the chair at that point punches you in the back of your shoulder I'm like, this is shit who wants to do this?

This is terrible this is too, oh dearie me Yeah, anyway. Anyway, go see Avatar 4 in 4DX, coming to you, 229. Yeah. Jonathan Mostow directed Terminator 3, and since then, he has gone on to write a comic book series. He directed a film called surrogates with Bruce Willis.

Oh, my God, did he do surrogates? I only just... Yes. God, my own. I haven't seen it. It's... good idea, bad execution. Right.

It looks like... I'm just looking at the poster. It looks like Minority Report, you know, kind of sci-fi thriller, kind of thing. And then he directed The Hunter's Prayer with Sam Worthington, also a Terminator. Alumni. Alumnus. And he doesn't have anything else. seemingly publicly in production.

I didn't know that he was attached to direct the game. I watched the game the other week. And he was originally attached to direct the game with Carl McLaughlin and Bridget Fonda. But obviously that ended up a David Fincher film, which maybe works better because of David Fincher's obvious contempt for wealthy people and how that comes across in Michael Douglas' character.

So, we come to Muggee. We come to Jonathan McGinty Nickel, also known as Mokie. And he has directed quite a lot since Terminator Salvation, none of which I have seen. This means war, three days to kill, the babysitter, rim of the world, the babysitter, killer queen, family switch, uglies, and Way of the Warrior Kid. The only one of these I've seen. started watching Ugly's actually Ugly's was that Netflix film

about a future a sci-fi future where everyone gets cosmetic surgery at the age of 16 it's like it's Hunger Games yeah

the poster makes it feel it kind of lives alongside that sort of like YA adaptation yeah Mazeeruner kind of thing Hunger Games What's that

what's the one of Shailene Woodley was it diver Yeah, something like that. Yeah, certainly that seems to be the aesthetic, the posters. Anyway, as I said, I started watching it. No, the only one of these I've seen is this means war.

Which was pretty shit. Pretty shit. Yeah, so like I say, he's done these kind of middling thriller films, he's moved, into kind of Netflix films like the babysitter and Rim of the World

and this Ugly's film he was slated to direct the Masters of the Universe reboot Oh my word which is actually out now as we record but then didn't direct it for unknown reasons

Honestly that film is one that just confuses the hell out movie like who's asking for a He-Man film in the year of Our Lord 2026. And I say this as a kid who went through a phase, I think in the late 80s, where in like very early days where I really liked He-Man. I remember having a He-Man action figure.

Like, who's asking for this film? Studio executives. Studio executives who remember being young. Yeah, especially, like, I looked it up, right? Because somebody, you know, and I try not to think about films too much in financial terms. Like, I like to consider them. kind of independent of that.

One, who wants this film? And two, who wants this film on a $200 million budget? Like, who thought that was a good idea? Pro money at it. Yeah. People definitely want to go see the He-Man film if we spend $200 million on it.

It's obviously going to lose money. It's so obvious. We'll see. we'll see God alighty Yeah people are flogging to the cinemas to see the Masters of the Universe film

and the Mandalorian and Grogu They can't get enough of it Right We're recording this As the film comes out And this is actually going to come out Like two months after This film comes out

You know what's going to happen It's going to end up making a billion dollars And I'm going to look like an absolute dick here That's what's going to happen Yeah Our next series will have to be the Master of the Universe franchise because they released so many in such quick succession.

Yeah. We'll open the next episode of our next series by reason by the power of grey skull. Hell yeah, hell yeah, Will. Oh, dear. Alan Taylor. Alan Treyla directed Terminator Genesis and has since,

broadly speaking, gone back to directing television. so he was a talented TV director before they brought him in for Genesis and he's gone back to direct episodes of Interview with the Vampire, House of the Dragon, but also the Many Saints of Newark, the Sopranos kind of prequel film, which is relentlessly fine. I haven't seen it actually.

But, you know, it's a work on Game of Thrones. It doesn't surprise me as we've been going back to his job. I mean, like, yeah, that was decent work there. Yeah, no, I think that's where he works best. So, yeah, nothing much to say about that. Tim Miller, directed Terminator Dark Fate, has since gone on to direct nothing. He was an executive producer on the Sonic the Hedgehog films.

He did uncredited reshoots for the Borderlands film, and he has a film coming out in 27 called Shiver which is a sci-fi film starring Keanu Reeves produced by our favourite director

Sir Matthew Vaughan Sir Matthew Vaugh Oh Jesus Christ, us again Sorry, sorry Sir Matthew Allard de Verre Drummond Also known as Sir Matthew Vaughan But yeah, the closest thing he's got to direct him You know what?

As long as he's doing that, he's not making another goddamn Kingsman film. Fill your boots, Matthew. Fill your boots. Tim Miller has also been hired to direct an adaptation of Neuromancer, the William Gibson film, but that's not come to fruition yet. He's interesting,

and I think some of his producer work is maybe a little more interesting than his directorial. Yeah, it looks like he's mostly going to produce. I think, Of the ones that we've spoken about, right? I mean, James Cameron's like, obviously, is obviously very well-sad. Tim Miller, I feel like, is the one where if you look at, you know, and like, I mean, some people like Deadpool, some don't.

I think it was perfectly entertaining. But if you look at Deadpool, you look at Dark Fate, and some of the love death and robots stuff, right, that he's done on television, I think he has the potential to do something interesting in the future. I think the other, like Alan Taylor on TV, sure, but like film. it's not happened. The other two obviously not at this point. But, like, Tim Miller, I think there's, like, his is still a name where if it was to pop up in a directorial role again, like that

2027 film, yeah, I'll check it out. I think there's potential for him to do something in the interest. Yes, agreed. Yeah, he has potential. I'm more interested in what he does than anything that McGee does. Yeah.

Jolly good. So those are the directors. and the future of the franchise. I think all that leaves us to talk about is our rankings for this franchise. We know you love doing a ranking, and we both put together rankings for this. All right. So how do we do it? Remind me how we do this? Do we do it?

I don't remember. Do we do this kind of like gradual reveal at the same time, or do we? I think we alternate. I think we usually get. one at a time one at a time through so do you want to start off I think yours gives a little better place to start

yeah I think like going from the top I don't think if you listen to anything I've said over the course of this this franchise I don't think it would be much of a surprise what the top two are and in my case I would be much of a surprise that I've put the first one

the term near at the top I think for me it is lean, effective. Some of the imagery from it has stayed with me for decades. And that's saying something, given the strength of the effects work in particular in Terminator 2. I find it very hard to fault this film at all, basically.

The performances are great. Arnold is deployed superbly. You could work. watch this film and none of the other ones and this would just be an excellent film. Got done. Interesting. So yeah, I mean, I have the same top two as well, but I have them in the other order. So I've put Terminator 2 top.

Yeah, nothing against Terminator 1. I just think I've put Terminator 2 top because Terminator 2 is like a perfect blockbuster film. I think it succeeds at being a blockbuster film. a franchise film incredibly well and succeeds at being a sequel because it builds on the original and shifts it just enough that it feels distinct and it is interesting and unique. It does something new with the material. Obviously recontextualizes Arnie's role in an interesting way and plays to the strengths of Arnie's acting. It allows Arne a bit more to do.

I probably could have equally put Terminator at the top. It's a very solid film, very good. I think I'd just prefer the more kind of bombastic action of Terminator 2 than the kind of gritty tech noir to coin a term of the Terminator. Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah, I think this is the thing. It's kind of a focal finish, right? I don't disagree with anything you've said there.

I think the reason the reason I'm probably just nudging the Terminator ahead of Terminator 2 is probably... I think some of the humor and the slang stuff has... I would say is aged poorly in Terminator 2. Like, I wouldn't go as far as that, but it's not aged well. I think the Terminator has, for me, a slightly more timeless. quality to it. It feels a little bit less

kind of like set in the time and place it is, you know, and that's not a perfect thing. Like I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't die on that specific phrasing. But to me, you know, taking the films on their own terms, because you could also talk about

the lessons the franchise learnt from Terminator 2, and I think it learned some of the wrong ones, but that's not that film's fault. But it's kind of a full finish for me on these two. We'd nudge the Terminator head just because I feel like it ages a bit better than the other one.

But, you know, we're talking about fine margins here. We talked about it on the episode a little bit, but I really like and appreciate how embedded in the 80s Terminator is, how embedded in its time and place it is, and how it's not ashamed of that. It's not trying to look, you know, timeless. It's not trying to look like today.

It is embedded in that time and place, and that's important to the, the text of the film to the kind of time travel shenanigans. But I think I also just like things that are embedded in a certain time these days. You know, there's so much slick production that is trying to look

out of time. And I like the idea that it just has 80s music, 80s styles. It's not ashamed of where it is, you know? Yeah, but also in a sincere way. Yeah, yeah. It's like 80s nostalgia has been a big thing

over the past decade or so, and it's like, you know, but this is actually genuinely a product of the 80s, and it feels like it. I think the distinction I'm probably making between the two, though, is it's embedded in the 80s in a way that feels most of it.

As I say, there's just kind of like persisted better. Yeah, it feels in sense. I don't think it loses anything, but like I think it gains something by being so embedded in the 80s in the way it is in terms of kind of like music, visuals, fashion, that sort of thing.

Whereas Terminator 2, it's kind of like, there are a few dialogue exchanges where they're very 90s coded in a way which was trying to be ironically funny in the 90s, and that's not aged as well,

I don't think. But as I say, it's fine margin. Do you want to go to number three? Yeah, so in my case, I've put dark feet. I have also put... I think, yeah, I think it, to me, it's easily the best of these four sequels to Terminator 2. It has the best ideas. It's got an interesting performance in Linda Hamilton.

I like the fact that it changes up the setting and does something different with kind of a non-American setting compared to a lot of Hollywood films, in particular, even these films in Terminator 2 in particular. I think it's got a lot going for it. It kind of falls apart a bit. There are a lot of things it doesn't do well. And, you know, we discussed it at length why it doesn't do well. I think it has more interesting ideas

and executes on them better than the other ones. It's still a long, long way down from those first two we've spoken about. But I do think it's the best of the four sequels after the original pair. Sure. Yeah, agreed. I think it's just clearly superior to the other films that came afterwards. It's got more of an interesting hook. It actually feels like a sequel to Terminator 2.

It's developing on the ideas of Terminator 2 in an interesting way, especially through the Arnie character. And it does interesting stuff with Linda Hamilton and with the other characters. So, yeah, I just like it. I think it works well. The representation of Mexico is a really interesting thing that it does, how it shows something different to just kind of Los Angeles and California in these films. It gets a bit bogged down in the action later on, which isn't terribly interesting,

but still, head and shoulders above the rest of the films we're going to talk about. I think we've actually ended up here with, the only way... The only permutation of the three remaining films, it means we have them all in different positions to each other. Right? So, I have

put... For number four, I have put Terminator Genesis. Yep. Right. Again, I think we have a pretty steep drop from one entry in my list to the other. This at least had a couple

of good ideas floating around the place. I think the opening of the film works well. It sets up some interesting stuff, and it has some interesting ideas. It then completely falls off a cliff. But I at least watched it for a while with some hope. Yeah. It's not good. It's not good.

But it is at least trying something different to begin with, and then it's abandons it. And, you know, there's a reason I said there's a big drop-off. There's a reason it's number four on this list and not, you know, it doesn't make number three. It's not great, but I've got that there. Number five, to my surprise, to a certain extent, I have put Terminator Salvation. I again think this is a big drop-off. I don't like this film. It's not good. It's boring. It's dull.

but, you know, it is where it is. It's like I said, I don't think it's a good film. I have actually put Terminator 3 at the bottom. Yes. Because the drop-off, you know, and I've said kind of like, as we go through this list, right, there's a drop-off in terms of my ranking. But you need to remember, this is a direct sequel to Terminator 2, right? Which, you know, you have just said is the perfect blockbuster film. I have not at the top of my list by kind of like some minor quibbles about a few lines of dialogue, right?

The drop-off from that film to Terminator 3 is absolutely catastrophic, you know? And I look at so many things like the sequence in the military bit where they say, the machines are taking over and there's like one sub-dalek thing trundling around. and like the absolute dog shit editing of some of the chase scenes and the inflating breasts and the Elton John glasses Jesus Christ, man.

Like salvation, the reason salvation is sitting one step above this, and again this is fine margins, is it's trying something different. It chose the wrong person to direct it. It's not well written. But it does have the odd redeeming feature. I'm going to lean on Anton Yeltsin here. Okay, right?

That's a performance I kind of appreciate in that film. I think it probably gets Kyle Reese better than any other interpretation, frankly, that there has been since the first Terminator. But that's the thing that moves above it. Terminator 3, looking back on it, and I'd have to listen back to the episode to see what I said, specifically about it at the time, it's dog shit.

I'm sorry, it just is. So, yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's the reason for my run of the final three and where they sit where they do. So, yeah, I have gone softer on Terminator 3, because I have put Terminator 3 at my number 4 position, followed by Genesis at number 5 and Salvation at the bottom at number 6. I think, partly it's a nostalgia factor for Terminator 3,

which I saw when I was younger when it came out. And partly it's just, I remember it being very generic. I remember it being very, you know, generic action film, generic 2000s action film, but it didn't annoy me the way Genesis and Salvation did. It didn't have the same kind of squandered potential. And I appreciate what you're saying about the drop-off from two to three, which is huge.

There is a massive gulf in my ranking between 1-2 and 3 and 4, 5 and 6. But I think it's the... It doesn't feel like it's striving for anything interesting. Whereas Genesis and Salvation are. And so I'm more disappointed in them not achieving it. which feels like a funny thing to say considering I've put it above them. I'm sort of talking myself out of it.

No, but... No, but I think, you know, I don't think I would change my ranking. You have hit on something there, though, where you could make the argument that, on its own terms of what it wants to achieve, Terminator 3 does that better

than either of the other two films. Yeah. I think that would be a fair argument. It wouldn't be enough to make me shift mine around, but I think there's something there, right? Terminator 3, as I said, I don't think it's good. I think it's shite, right? But the one thing I will give it is, it has a, it's quite brave with the bleakness of its ending. I'll give it that.

and the one thing I will say about Terminator 83 is it doesn't fundamentally misread any of its ideas in the way that Genesis does with the consumer sky net angle You know? Like in fairness to it it, It doesn't position an idea like that somewhere And then lean into it in this way Which I think is a fundamental misreading of the ideas

That is trying to put forward You know, so there's In fairness, I think you have something there for me, I think the thing that I probably end up leading on with Terminator 3 is I think in a, on a technical level. Like, you know, I'm thinking about the editing, the visuals. I feel like it's, for a film of it, scale, it's technically incompetent, frankly. Yeah. That's very harsh, but, like, you know, like, Salvation, I didn't like what they were going forward.

There's at least some sort of aesthetic vision there. And Genesis, like, it has some actual decent moments there, I think. but Terminator 3 is none of that. Yeah, to be honest, I could, I think, swap Genesis and Terminator 3 potentially. It's fairly close. Genesis squanders its potential to do something interesting, in a tedious way,

and winds up doing really boring things and talking about kind of consumerism in a really dull way compared to the kind of anti-militarized... anti-militaristic bent of the first few films. But I still think salvation has to be at the bottom for me. I think salvation is just bleak and tedious and the idea of everyone being conscripted into this kind of US model of military.

I find distasteful and gross. It just looks terrible. It's boring. John Connor is nothing here throughout. It just annoyed me. It annoyed me more than every other film. So that has to be on the bottom for me, even if I swapped round three in Genesis.

Yeah, you know what, actually, for the first time, I think, on any of these wrap-up episodes we've done, I'm going to cheat. I'm putting salvation at the bottom. Yeah. I'm putting salvation at the bottom. It has to be.

Terminator 3 annoys me, but you have talked me into putting salvation at the bottom, right? because I kind of surprised myself in putting Terminator 3 at the bottom rather than salvation but I've just like just sitting here it's like I block out my mind every time I've seen the film

and then I come back to it like that film is a slog man it is difficult it's difficult to get through brown and grey and dull and unpleasant yeah it's that that is a tough one to get through so yeah no first time I think on any of these episodes

I will be changed changing my ranking. Salvation. Down to the ball. So not that different really. We've got a few in other places. We've swapped around Terminator 1 and Terminator 2, and we've swapped around Terminator 3 in Genesis. But I'm broadly similar.

Yeah. Yeah, a downward trend after the first two, like very clearly. Terminator Dark Fate, I think, is good, but it's not great. And the first two are great. Yeah, and we discussed. on the episode. I don't think I'd even

necessarily say it's good, but it's, it is clearly the strongest of these films that came after Terminator 2, in my view. I think it's interesting. If none of the other films existed, right, and Terminator

Dark Fate was a legacy Terminator sequel, I'd be kind of interested to see what sort of reception it would have gone. Yeah, I think that's, that's An interesting thought experiment. You know, like 2019, so that would have been 27, yeah, 27 years after Terminator 2 came out, he would have brought back Schwarzenegger

and Linda Hamilton in the same film. Like, I do genuinely feel it's like, you know, maybe some slightly tighter writing towards the end of the film. That could have been a real sort of force awakened moment for this series of films but you know there's too much water under the bridge

with kind of audience perception Yeah too much terminate of fatigue by that point yeah there is and I think that's unfortunate because I think there was the potential for a good film in there but yeah where's the other ones where's the other ones

you know that's the key difference actually why it sits there Terminator Dark Fade there's the potential for a good film in there and I think they ended up with a decentish one the other ones, I don't think there's even the potential for a good film in a lot of them. I mean, like, Terminator Genesis maybe comes closest, but the way it ends up leaning into this, like basically consumers are to blame type angle, it's like, no.

It's very disappointing when you think about where it came from. So, yeah, it's interesting. An alternative history here, I think this could be quite different. but, you know. Yeah, if someone came to me and said, what terminator films should I watch, I think I'd still say, stop after two.

I wouldn't say go on to Dark Fate, and I certainly wouldn't recommend any of us. I mean, I certainly wouldn't bother your arse with three or four. Oh, Lord, now. Right, so three or salvation. Genesis, I mean, probably not. I wouldn't. And then Dark Fate?

Maybe. I'd say maybe treat it as a trilogy, but... I'd say treat Dark Fate the way I did. Don't watch it for years and then... Be pleasantly surprised later. Yeah, sure. Well, there we go then. I think that's the Terminator franchise all wrapped up. Yeah. For now. For now, you never know. We could do... Or now. Could do an alien Earth, could do an alien Romulus, could do a dresset world rebirth.

where they come out with a new one and we have to go back. Yeah, let's see. Yeah, the list of franchises that we have to go back to when they make a new one is getting longer. It gets longer every time. But yeah, that's the Terminator franchise. Hope you're jazzed for Alien Earth season two, so yeah. Yeah, I can't wait.

That'll be great. Some shows get better in season two. Seinfeld. Maybe we'll finally see what that eyeballs's up to. Yeah, because it wasn't paid off in the show where they could have paid it out. Not even slightly. No, but yeah, that's the Terminator franchise. You have any more to say on Terminator before we close the book?

I don't think so, no. As I say, I do want to kind of like sit in, I want to percolate an idea. about the effect of the rights being tossed around on this series? We mentioned there's like an interest and I do think there is. I'd probably quite like to write something about it from that perspective because I think this is a

this is where there's a difference with the other series we've looked at, right? I think there really is a very, very clear effect of the business history of film on the creative output of these films, which I don't think is as a patent in the other ones, right? And I think if you look at those

they don't have the same impact like it's still there around the background particularly with Jurassic Park I would say and alien some you know the confusion about who who could take it forward and mission possible particularly at the start

like there's elements there of like the movie business encroaching on the creative expression I think this is the one where I think it is fundamentally undermined it completely sure yeah yeah, it's clearly a different shape than the previous franchises we've talked about, but they've all kind of been different shapes. I mean, that's the interesting thing about looking at franchise films,

is they all have different trajectories. Great, so thank you for joining us for another franchise on the Take One Presents feed. What's the future of this feed? Well, we'll be back at some point with another franchise. franchise, maybe something smaller, maybe something big. We've yet to decide. But we will discuss it, yeah. We'll be back.

We'll be back. Continue to subscribe to this feed and new episodes will drop when they come out. Hopefully not, after too long a delay. But we'll see. For now, thank you for joining us. Take One Presents is produced by TakewanCinema.net, which is a website that has film reviews of Art House and Festival Films, and wider cinema more generally.

So please do have a look at that and read the reviews by all the wonderful writers on there. I'm on social media at SimonXXX. Go to SimonXX.com to see where. Jim, you get anything to plug? Not particularly. It's the usual thing. Take OnCinema.com.

Go there, read it. If you want to link up with us on social media, Simon said his, I'm usually Jim GR in a bunch of places or some variation there all. Smashing. Lovely. But yeah, thank you for joining us. We will be back,

but not doing Terminator. So we'll be back. Other puns here. We'll be back. We'll be back. We're all been not obsolete. Yeah. In a different form. Morphing into a different kind of form. But yes, we will be back. And thank you for joining us.

Bye. Bye.