TAKE ONE Presents... - The Impossipod 9: Outro

Episode Date: December 24, 2025

Simon and Jim wrap up The Impossipod series with a discussion about the overall trajectory of the Mission: Impossible franchise, what the directors of these films went on to do, the politics of these films, their rankings of every film in the franchise, and some thoughts about how this ties into their wider thoughts on blockbuster franchise filmmaking.Our Letterboxd rankings for Mission: Impossible are available at https://boxd.it/nUsNA and https://boxd.it/EIfj2$bq018RHfaf81ior5Content warnings: sexual abuse in the context of Harvey Weinstein; American neo-fascism and militarism; cult leadership and the Church of Scientology; misogyny.Our theme song is Star - X - Impossible Mission (Mission Impossible Theme PsyTrance Remix) by EDM Non-Stop (https://soundcloud.com/edm-non-stop/star-x-impossible-mission) licensed under a CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 license.

Your mission should you choose to accept it is to obtain photographic proof, theft, shadow blitzin to his buyer, and apprehend with both. As always, should you or any member of your I am force be caught or kill Secretary of Sabo? Hello and welcome to Take One Presents the Impossopod. Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to listen to us watch all the Mission Impossible franchise films in order, contextualizing them and critiquing them. We've actually done that, we've watched them all, and I'm your host, Simon Bowie, to talk about this, along with my co-host, Jim Ross. Hello.

Hello there. So yes, we did watch all the Mission Impossible films. that's done and that's behind us. But today we're going to review the franchise as a whole. This podcast is all about film franchises and how they work together or don't. And so we tend to go back after we've done a franchise. We did this for Alien. We did this for Jurassic Park.

We tend to go back and review the franchise as a whole. Talk about what we've learned and talk about what the future of the franchise is, if any, in this case. Yeah, spoilers for the final reckoning if anybody doesn't watch it at this point. Oh yeah, there'll be spoilers for every mission impossible film. Yeah, yeah. You know, not specific, but we will be talking about the full gambit of the films. Yeah, but I think in particular, I mean, we'll get to, we'll get to. I think there's something about the ending of the final reckoning now,

but we're talking about the future of the franchise, which I think is particularly amusing and indicative of modern films. But we'll get to that. Yeah, I mean, talking about the future of the franchise then, the future of the Mission Impossible franchise. We just released an episode last month about Mission Impossible, The Final Reckoning, a film that has the word final in the title. And yet, there is some ambiguity about whether they want to carry on making these films. So Tom Cruise has been interviewed in various sources, saying that he's been inspired by how he's, Harrison Ford's career. So Harrison Ford is in his 80s, and he keeps making Indiana Jones films.

So I think Tom Cruise wants to continue making Mission Impossible films until he's in his 80s. He actually is quoted in THR, the Hollywood Reporter, as saying, I actually said I'm going to make movies into my 80s. Actually, I'm going to make them into my hundreds. So obviously not read the reviews for Dial of Destiny then. Well, yeah. or the final reckoning for that matter he said in a statement that sounds like a fret

I will never stop I will never stop doing action I will never stop doing drama comedy films I'm excited and he's probably said I really hope there's video of him saying that because I can imagine exactly how he says I'm excited in that sort of slightly overly intense earnest way I'm not sure what comedy

films he's talking about, apart from Tropic Thunder and Austin Powers Gold member. Yeah, I mean, you have to go back quite a while in his career. And I think he was a dedicated Tom Cruise comedy film.

It was gentle humor. I don't think you'd call them comedies as such. Yes. But then Christopher McCrory in June 2023 had said that Dead Reckoning Part 1 and the final reckoning are not the end of the series.

as there are plans in the production company for future installments. Cruz has also expressed interest in making other films as Ethan Hunt, despite some people also billing these two films as a send-off to the character. Most recently, in May 2025, Cruz said this was at the New York premiere for The Final Reckoning. He said that the film would be his final film in the series, stating, the film is the final it's not called final for nothing so mixed messages it's fair to say but i think this is the first time we've done one of these outro episodes where there isn't a confirmed next film coming out because we filmed we did the xenopod when romulus was about to come out

and we did uh the Jurassic park ones when Jurassic World Rebirth was about to come out so here we have no future for this franchise Yeah, I have some theories about this You know, I mean, they're very much hedged their bets with the ending of the last one Right, the character's still alive, he's out there with the entity in a little per space cube or whatever it was I forget what it was Yeah, I forget which episode it was, but I did predict that Ethan Hunt would die And I was wrong, he lives to fight another day

Yeah, which I did, you know, I think probably the reason there isn't a confirmed sequel to this, this is just a theory on my part, is I think it's interesting that he says he wants to emulate the career of Harrison Ford, right? Because I think the Indiana Jones films are a key example of a long-running film franchise where I think they would desperately love to move beyond the central figure in them. And I can't say to capture that same sort of, you know, the vibe of those films. And they just can't do it, you know? It's intrinsically tied up in Harrison Ford. Like, I remember, you know, I mean, I've been on social media long enough to remember when everybody wanted Chris Pratt cast as Indiana Jones for, you know, I mean, you'd do that now. You'd probably get slapped in the face, right?

Yeah, it seems like nonsense now, but. Um, you know, but like I, I remember that and there's a lot of, there's a lot of series that I think fall into this category, right? And you hear a lot about Tom Cruise being the last movie star. Well, it's tough. It's tough for Indiana Jones specifically when the franchise is named after this one character. Yeah. It's, it's tough to move on from that. It's not like Star Wars where you can move away from Luke Skywalker because his name isn't the name of the franchise. But, you know, so I think it kind of has that problem here, and I don't think they really know what they want to do with it, right? Because you've also got, in terms of, like, action films, and I realize the tone of the Borden films is quite different. It's a lot more somber and dramatic. But, like, they tried to do that, right? You know, because you had the Born legacy with Jeremy Renner. We spoke about Jeremy Renner as part of the series. And it didn't really take, you know, and then they come out with another film just called Jason Bourne, just to make it very clear to everybody. This one is definitely. him, you know, a number of years later. And yeah, I think it's probably, we've spoken a lot about the alien franchise as a bit of an identity crisis, right? I think this one would. It would if he had tried to move beyond Tom Cruise. And I don't think they've got an idea of what that would look like. But they've also not mothballed it for long enough to go down to the legacy sequel route. No, I mean, you get hints of it.

you get hints of it in like gross protocol when they're clearly trying to set up Renner as a replacement for Ethan Hunt, but it never gets into full-blown identity crisis because that film course corrects to such a degree and focuses on kind of Ethan Hunt and the team in a way that will be expanded throughout the next few films where it's all about friendship and the team and blah, blah, blah, as we've talked about. so you get a hint of it but it never it never wobbles fully into identity crisis in a way that i think we said both alien and Jurassic park did it's surprising to me given how many directors there are and how many different directions it takes it's surprising to me that this franchise doesn't have

more of an identity crisis yeah obviously it takes a while to stabilize in terms of the wildly divergent tones of one, two, and three, and even four to some extent. But then it's fully on a very set path. Like, they finally get a tone in mind and stick to that in a way that they never did for Alien and Jurassic Park. I think it's probably, I mean, for me, and this is where it's probably a little bit odd, right? I think part of that is because if you think about kind of like the directorial vision such that they exist for each of these films, it's almost kind of gone in the opposite direction, right? Because it started off with this very kind of, you know, breakneck changing stylistic direction, right? De Palme of Wu, I mean, I can't think of any other, I can't think of any other, you know, sequential pair of films in any.

any of the series we've looked at that has quite as ridiculous sort of like changing styles that. Yeah, Whiplash. Yeah. Maybe some of the Bond films but yeah. Yeah. I mean, for the ones we've looked at, the Jurassic Park franchise, I don't think there is.

And I think film franchises in general modern ones I don't think so either, right? It starts off that way and then it's settles into something, and we've discussed at length Christopher Macquarie's filmmaking style, right? And, you know, pluses and minuses of it. And that becomes the identity. So it's almost like it has its identity crisis up front, really, as opposed to, you know,

I mean, you know, the Jurassic Park films, obviously the first two were Spielberg. He's remained on as a producer through kind of like, you know, so there is some level of consistency there. it's more kind of the approach to the film, the type of stories they were telling was affected by the landscape that came out in, the alien films, it kind of, you know, it starts off with a very, you know, neat, coherent idea from Ridley Scott. It's built upon by James Cameron. And then after that, it's kind of the push and the pool between those two. That kind of gives it a lot of its confusion as well as kind of that same kind of like changes and trends and things as it goes along. There's this one I think that's part of the reason It's not sailed into an identity crisis Because it found one It's just kind of stuck with it

And I think that Yeah I think the word crisis is important as well As part of this trend That we've identified for these franchises Mission Impossible has never had a crisis Like it has gone from strength to strength really You know

The film started off fairly small but have built into this juggernaut of Blockbuster Cinema where these latest releases are you know the big temple releases of the year or intended to be where they're you know getting people back into cinemas etc after COVID and so it doesn't have that downward trajectory

that the alien films all happen like they go sharply downhill in quality after the first one in quality and in box office and so do the Jurassic Park films although this latest Jurassic World Rebirth has done very well at the box office but not necessarily as well with the critics but the point is that

Mission Impossible hasn't had that downward trend it's never had a dip arguably we say it does have a dip in quality but in terms of like popular opinion it is a kind of juggernaught movie franchise yeah and I think

You know, I mean, we're quite negative on the final reckoning, but I think it would, I think it would be fair to say, I think we were probably, and certainly I did, but significantly more harsh on that than general opinion, I think. I mean, it was only after we spoke about it and I wrote about it, I went and listened to Mark Kerrmode's review of it, right? So, Mark, I used to listen to him a lot, I'd listen to him less these days, but, like, and he's really quite positive on it, you know, and I think that's an opinion that you can. can you can find. I don't think it's one that I necessarily agree with for, you know, obvious and well-documented reasons on the previous episode, but it's, you know, I don't think there's many people out there. This is foreshadowing everybody, just so you know, this is foreshadowing. I don't think there's many people out there who are putting the final reckoning below Mission Possible, too, for instance, you know. Um, foreshadowing. no I think you're right it did seem to be there was a lot of positive opinion about it and then just a few perplexed critics like me and you wondering around like

what's everyone talking about like this emperor's got no clothes on what are you all seeing here like yeah I still think of that first hour and how absolutely abysmal it was with the bizarre thing to be that some people praise that. And I've listened to Christopher Macquarie in interviews saying, yes, we learned from Dead Reckney, we decided to just set everything up at the front and then get into it. Now, yeah,

okay, sure, that works if you're doing that probably 20 minutes at all, not for like, you know, nearly half the runtime of the movie, Chris. And going back through your whole franchise, not just recapping the previous film, but recapping you know, John Voight's character from

the first film and oh Christ Ethan's wife and everything I'd forgotten about and the fucking rabbit's foot which is apparently now a digital we talked about this last month we don't have to re-litigator

but it's just it's all coming flooding back right I think what will be lost in Mugans and then there's been like what probably like a two month getting two three month gap between us two

that last recording this one and we're talking about it I'm like oh Christ I forgot about that Jim Phelps Jr I forgot To bring us back I think when we talk about identity crisis it's not that this film does

not that this franchise doesn't change because obviously it does it goes from kind of this quite tight spy thriller to this big bombastic stunt driven action piece driven film franchise and obviously Ethan's character

changes as well from a kind of jokey but effective spy in the first film to I don't know whatever kind of blank slate he becomes for Tom Cruise later on Stoic espionage Messiah Yeah And obviously with the changing themes like around friendship

And the importance of friendship and blah blah blah So obviously the franchise changes But it never feels like a crisis And it's so gradual as well that you don't really notice it. I mean, apart from those shaky first few films. Yeah, I mean, the funny thing is, actually, if you look at, I would say the first four films in particular, right?

It's almost like the identity crisis, any identity crisis that actually comes off the back of it, and, you know, so we put show notes together before you and I come on to record this. And I was looking at it, I was looking at yours, and you've got the bit about what directors are doing. next, right? Because this is something we've looked at when we have, you know, multiple directors on a franchise. And I was looking at it, in particular for the first four, right? So, you know, which all had different directors, right? So Brian De Palma, John Wood, JJ Abrams,

and then Bradbert. Right. If anything, where the identity crisis has manifested is been in the careers of those directors, frankly, right, in terms of like what they went on to do next. Because, like, Brian De Palma, a fantastic filmmaker. I mean, he'll look at his career since mission possible, it's pretty mixed, it's pretty mixed and it looks quite different to what he had before then. John Wu, you know, same sort of thing, but to a different extent in terms of, you know, where the type of film, maybe more where he was making the films than the type. J.J. Abrams, I don't think he can really quite decide whether he's a TV director, a film director, or a film producer. I think we've kind of

settled a little bit into the last one. Films upcoming, notwithstanding, which I'm sure you'll talk about. And then Brad Bird, kind of like, he's flipped between going back to animation. He has made, you know, one live action film since then, was it tomorrow? Yeah, well, I think this is a good

opportunity. This is a good segue into talking about the careers of directors of Mission Impossible films. So we usually talk about the ongoing careers of directors of these franchise films. There's not usually this many. But, yes, that said, Alien had quite a few different directors,

especially with the length of that franchise and the Predator films as well. But yes, so Mission Impossible was directed by Brian DePalmer. The section after Mission Impossible on Brian DePalmer's Wikipedia page is subtitled Career Slump. So that is the direction that Brian DePalmer's career has apparently gone in. After Mission Impossible, he directed Snake Eyes, Mission to Mars, Femfetal, the Black Dahlia, redacted. I haven't seen any of these. In terms of what he's doing now, it was announced in 2018 that he was going to direct a horror film called Predator, which is inspired by Harvey Weinstein and the sexual abuse claims against him.

And a film called Sweet Vengeance, which is based on two real-life murder cases. Both of those have fallen through, so they're not happening. And the last update in September 2024, talking to Vulture, was that he has one of an undisclosed film he's planning to make, and he's trying to cast it. But we don't know what that is, and he hasn't produced anything since 2019, which was a film called Domino and was director video. And he's also 85 years old.

He's not wanting to be too morbid. And he's an old man. He doesn't have to do this anymore. I'm sure he could just retire, and that would be fine. But to contrast this with John Wu, so John Wu, after Mission Impossible 2, sort of went away from Hollywood and moved more towards

back towards Asian cinema. So he directed a number of Asian cinema films films in China films in Hong Kong and most recently he posted something on Instagram with Sparks

with the band Sparks suggesting that they're working on a collaboration this collaboration is apparently not an action film what an odd direction yeah I'm kind of fascinated by that I can't even begin to think what that would look like

to be honest. Now, so Sparks have worked with... But it's kind of good, you know? Yeah, I mean, sparks are great, like, musically, artistically. Sparks worked on Annette with, what's his name, Leo Cracks. Yeah. Worked on Annette, which was a musical. If you want to hear my full thoughts on that, I reviewed it on an episode of Sinatopia podcast,

which you can find, but I thought it was terrible. So I don't know what they're going to do. I'm sure I remember defending it because I quite liked it. I think maybe you were, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, I really didn't like it. It doesn't work.

Actually, yeah, it's coming back to me. I'm pretty sure I was the only person of those of us reviewing on here. That's like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amanda, Roger is the host of Sinatopia. Hated it as much as me. So, it was against you.

It's coming back to me now. Yeah. But, you know, I like Sparks, and I like what they do and they're kind of vibe so I'm interested in them producing

what they describe as a half musical with John Wu of all people Yeah, I have interested it sounds like one of those things that would be kind of like

you know as a fake poster in like a South Park episode or something but yeah we'll see we'll see J.J. Abrams. J.J. Abrams directed Mission Impossible 3

and J.J. Abrams has been in director jail since Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker. And rightfully fucking so. I was going to say, he should have been put in real jail. Or, or better still. Don't put him in jail. Just put him in a giant box with a question mark. on it.

It's J.J. Abrams in there. Who knows? The point is the intrigue. Yeah, it doesn't matter if he's in there or not. I don't want to know. Take your mystery box and kick it into the river. Like when

Solomon Lane gets kicked into the river in his little boxy van. There's your mystery box. It's not a mystery. You're just dead. So J.J. Habims hasn't directed anything since Rise of Skywalker. He is instead focused on producing

with his production company Bad Robot. So he's produced quite a lot of things and he's currently slated to produce Flower Vale Street which is a David Robert Mitchell film. Sorry, Flowervale Street. Is that David Robert Mitchell

of Under the Silver Lake? Yes, correct. Oh Lord. Okay. Under the Silver Lake is great. I don't know. Actually, you know, I know what my feelings. Under the Silver Lake I did not like, and I reviewed it such at the time. It strikes me as the sort of film where I'm going to write that

and I'm going to find myself watching it again in like 10 years and I'm going to think it's great. That's the sort of film that Under the Silver Lake strikes me as. Yeah, I know I'm in the minority of saying it's great, but I really do think it's fantastic, much better than it follows. So he's producing that. He's producing a Hot Wheels film adaptation for Mattel, hoping to kickstart their Mattel's Cinematic Universe alongside Barbie. And he's producing an animated film based on Dr. Zeus's O the Places You'll Go. But he's also directing an upcoming film called Ghost Writer, or at least codenamed Ghost Writer.

And I have some exclusive information about this because I'm nominally. a film journalist, but I have exclusive information having visited the set of Ghost Writer because it was filming in Glasgow, and they made these streets look like a futuristic or a fantasy futuristic New York, and there were all these tiny little vehicles, tiny little sci-fi vehicles, which kind of reminded me of Brazil, shuffling around the streets. So yeah, I know all about this. So it's JJ Abrams, Brazil? it looks like it

based on what I know of it which is wandering through the set and seeing these tiny little vehicles do you honestly they should market it that way regardless of whether that actually bears any resemblance to what you should actually be doing

that's all I know I know it's a fantasy film a kind of fantasy sci-fi film I know it's got Glenn Powell Jenna Ortega Emma Mackey and Samuel Jackson who were all in Glasgow filming but that's all I know about it I have a photo on my phone

of the funny little vehicles and when the film comes out I'll go see it and I'll point at the screen when I recognise the funny little vehicles that I saw Yeah, you'll see the vehicle you got photos, Leo DiCaprio pointing meme Yeah, exactly, yeah But yes, I assume

in making it look like New York because that's what they often do with Glasgow That's certainly what they did with Spider-Man 4 Which was filming here a few months ago So that is Ghost Writer and that is upcoming I don't think it has a release date, but that is JJ Abrams next project. Brad Bird, who directed Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol, went back to... Well, he was first asked to direct the Force Awakens

in place of JJ Abrams, but he turned that down, so he could work on Tomorrowland, which I haven't seen. Nor have I, and that probably puts us in quite significant company. not well received but he went on to go back to Pixar which is where he sort of started his career

and directed The Incredibles 2 since then he has expressed interest in developing an animated western or a horror film he has a project called Ray Gunn with Warner Brothers Animation Studio that he's trying to make

and Pixar have already announced that Incredibles 3 is being developed but Brad Bird is not directing because of his commitments to Raygun so he's just producing it yeah I mean we'll get into when we get into the rankings I think but I think that's that's the one that kind of is a surprise me and I'm not denigating I'm going back to animation right because Incredibles too was good and like you know clearly he's an excellent director in that sense but I do think the lack of him

trying something like Ghost Protocol, whether it's within Mission Possible or something else, I think it's a shame, right? I think there was enough I saw enough in that film to kind of think there are better live action films in Bradbird than Tomorrowland. Not that I've seen it, but I just have to go on the basis of...

Well, yeah, it does seem like tomorrow land has... It's overwhelming at least by the looks of it. It seems like tomorrow's... Orlando set back his career in an unfortunate way where he's not come back to live action and sort of retreated back to what he was familiar with, which is animated features. Which is a shame because, yeah, I rate Ghost Protocol very highly, as we'll discuss. And that only leaves us with Christopher McCrory, who helmed the franchise for the last four films and became very important for setting the tone of the franchise for the last

what, decade more than that? Yeah. So, yeah, he has signed on to direct several films. Ice Station Zebra, Free to Kill, The Chameleon. He's also announced that he's developing a new project with Tom Cruise, because they're good buddies, which he has described as gnarlier than the Mission Impossible films, and way outside what you're used to see and Tom do.

They've also announced that he and Cruz are looking at, An original musical for Tom Cruise. Sorry, I shouldn't want it. Why? Yeah. So there's the comedy that Cruz mentioned in his quote, where he wants to do more comedy. He's also looking to reprise the role of Les Grossman,

Cruz is, with Christopher McCrory. Les Grossman was a character from Traffic Thunder, where Tom Cruise had a load of prosthetics on and maybe a fat suit and danced around a bit where this is yeah I don't know I just sigh deeply this like

so I like Tropic Thunder right I also quite like the Les Grossman character I know that like you know some people who think it the funniness of it is overblown I think it probably is but like you know I got a laugh out of it

please dear God do not make a film with that character or bring about it's like it's it's funny in the exact amount it was given to us it's just yeah i found it funny because it was tom cruise laughing at himself because he is this kind of flamboyant producer character and this is an exaggerated version of himself i don't think he understood that he was laughing at himself yeah and so when you make a whole film you can't make a whole film laughing at the character you need to be laughing with the character in some extent

and I don't think that would work as a full film yeah it's not even that it's also just it's also just it was exactly the sort of character that is funny in small doses it's like I keep thinking back to like the thick of it right so you had you know you had the Malcolm Tucker character and all the main characters and then there was another character

Jamie McDonald right another Scottish guy who came in like you know was you know even more sweet and even more aggressive than Malcolm Tucker, right? Yeah, the angrier Malcolm Tucker. Yeah, right. And that character, you couldn't have put a character like that in the Malcolm Tucker role or Huddom's a main character for every episode, right?

It'd be too much. Same with this, right? You know, there's types of characters. It's just, if anything, this just shows kind of like, part of the reason that Tom Cruise has kind of ended up doing so many of these films is, I think, some of his instincts on stuff like this are just abysmal. It's just so bad It's a terrible idea

You know It's exactly the sort of thing Where if we get nice people Go oh Les Grasman's coming back And you know Post a load of clips on social media How funny it was the first time The film would come out

It would be fucking terrible Yeah So I don't think that's a good idea And then McCrory and Cruz Are also developing a Reacher Like Jack Reacher

even though I think there's a Jack Reacher TV series isn't there? There is, which I haven't seen any of it. I think it's meant to be half decent, but yeah. Yeah, no, I've heard it's decent, but I haven't seen any of it. So a lot of stuff with Tom Cruise, like Christopher McCrory and Tom Cruise get on very well. Tom Cruise obviously likes him as a directing and producing partner, so there's a lot of projects they're looking at together.

and as we said at the start there's also these vague gestures that McCrory has made around continuing the series and developing the Mission Impossible series so who knows yeah and it's an interesting one because

and I think and I said I can't remember which episode it was I said it on it would be one of the obviously one of the ones where Macquarie was directing the thing for me is just whenever I'm thinking about Christopher McCoy I just I still can't escape the fact that he's the writer of the usual

suspect, you know? And it's like, I feel like you know, and you know, what was his rolling edge of tomorrow? Did he, did he write that? Yeah, he did. He wrote that. You know, but mainly, like, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean, live, die,

repeat? Yeah, no, I mean, I mean, live, die, repeat. The edge of tomorrow. You know, that, that one. But, you know, and that's a That's a really smart film, you know, and I think it's smart in the way that, you know, the mission possible film films have not been. I don't mean that to imply that they're dumb popcorn munchers, sometimes you need to turn your brain off.

Because there are interesting ideas under there. We've spoken about them, but it's not the primary focus of it, right? And it's certainly not been the primary focus of the Macquarie entries. So I honestly have absolutely no idea what to expect of him. the future as a filmmaker. He's all over the place. I mean, I think I said in one episode he's a better, did I say he's a better director than writer?

Yeah, because I think this is how we came on to this discussion, because I think based on his recent filmography, I would agree, but based on his older filmography, like, you know, I mean, it's hard to say, because then you've also got shite in there like the tourist, right? I was going to say, he did uncredited writing work on Batman and Robin, the Wolverine Rogue 1 Yeah but then it also says

he has uncredited writing work on X-Men World War Z Exactly Yeah You know Like I say He's just all over the place He's all over the

Yeah it's hard to To nail him down really And it does It feels like his career Has also been mired You know Not mired He's making a lot of money

And doing very well Mired in his relationship With Tom Cruise because his last few films are the mummy well mission impossible Jack Reacher the mummy mission impossible Top Gun mission impossible mission impossible

so he's just he's I don't know not stuck as a Tom Cruise collaborator because he's clearly happy and doing very well out of it but that's very much the mode he's entered into yes exactly yeah because I'm looking at it here

and I think there's so his first his first collaboration with Cruz is Valkyrie in 2008 and since then and if we assume that, you know, if he's not going to say, let's assume that it's going to be at least two years from now before he released in our film. You're going on 20 years there

where I can only spot one, two films that are not in some way a cruise thing, you know? Because you've got the tourist and then Jack the Giant Slayer. But apart from that, you're looking at Valkyrie. Jack Reacher, Edge of Tomorrow, Rogue Nation, the Jack Reacher sequel,

The Mummy, Fallout, Top Gun Maverick, Dead Reckoning, Final Reckoning. I find that... Yeah, you know, it's... And maybe it's unfair of me to use the word Mired, because, you know, it's clearly a fruitful collaboration. I didn't like the last few Mission Impossible

films, but that doesn't mean it's not, you know. I wouldn't use the word Mired to describe Martin Scorsese and Robert De Niro, for example. Yeah, I mean, I mean, true, but I mean, you know, Martin Scorsese and Robert De Niro haven't made the mummy,

you know? Like, you know, um, not quite apples and oranges, but apples and, you know, a slightly mouldy apple with a wormhole in it round one side, if you look hard enough, you know? Yeah.

But no, but it's interesting, but it kind of, it speaks to that point I was making earlier, where if you, like, looking at all these directors we've spoken about, like, the series that doesn't seem to end up with that identity crisis. The directors do, in this case, really. Because, you know, I don't think McQuarrie has it, right, because we've gone through it there.

But even then, he's kind of a bit all over the place in terms of what he's working on up to this point. And then he's settled into this rhythm. It's kind of, you know, it's almost like his career kind of like it's very much similar to the path of the franchise in general. Yeah. But, yeah, but, no, it's interesting. though. It's interesting because I feel like Mission Possible, the series, has kind of by accident because of the Macquarie cruise relationship ended up in a similar mode to a lot of modern blockbuster franchises where it can end up feeling a little bit samey and not to a good degree, right? particularly if you look at that run from the Macquarie run, right, from Rogue Nation

through to the Final Reckoning, right? I think there's a very strong argument to be made, right? And when we get to the rankings, you'll see my ranking doesn't quite follow this rule, where none of them are necessarily terrible, but they are incrementally not quite as good as the last one. Yeah, right? And there is a very much a save, meanness to them. I can't think of anything that is being done aesthetically or stylistically

or tonally that is wildly different across those four films. I think the final reckoning makes a mistake in kind of like how much it kind of bogs down its first hour. We've spoken about that, right? And that's maybe a difference. But generally speaking, there's a consistency of tone and approach there. And if anything, it's actually a little bit like the way a lot of these big blockbuster franchises are made now, right? And I've referenced the MCU before in this way, and I'll do it again. You know, like so much of those films is kind of laid out ahead of time in pre-vis, and it needs to fit into, you know, there's only so many moving blocks that a director can push

in order to kind of like put their stamp on it. To the extent that there isn't really one a lot of the time. I mean, I think the last one I watched where I could say I saw the director behind kind of like, you know, what, you know, actually saw their kind of vision coming through was probably actually the Doctor Strange sequel, Sam Ramey, but even then, I don't know if that's just because I was looking for Sam Rameyness in it, because I knew Sam Ramey was the director. And you've kind of ended up with the same thing here. But it's like, rather than it being imposed by Cruz, it's kind of been posed by Bacquari as well, right, because of that kind of rhythm they're going to. got into, whereas I feel like the earlier films reflect a little bit more what you actually saw with, you know, sequels back in the day, right? I've spoken a lot about how people always talk about, oh, the sequel's never better, and, you know, by the time you get to the third

one, it's, you know, it's never as good. That's not true anymore, right? No. It's definitely not true anymore, and this is the prime example of it, but it's also true across all sorts of things, you know, I mean, I think I've said, I can't remember which, which episodes or series I've said to some before, but, you know, like the second cat in America films better than the first one. The third Thor film is better than either the ones that came before it. The Dark Knight

was better than Batman begins. Like, you know, I don't think any of those, you can disagree with any of them, but I don't think any of those statements I'm saying are particularly controversial, right? But I think it does come into the expense, particularly in these big franchises, right? I think it does come at the

expense of something different, right? Something breaking out of the mould and appearing distinctive, right? Like it or not, right? Maybe this is a segue to what we'll talk about in a bit. Like it or not, Mission Impossible 2 is a distinctive film. Does it do it particularly well? No.

I don't think it entirely suits. I don't know on a script level, this is not a visual thing, it's leased with that sort of like, you know, quite sort of like, you know, distasteful misogyny that we spoke about, right? But I don't think anybody could accuse the Mission Possible. to of being a dull, undistinctive film, right? I don't think anybody could say that of Mission Possible 4, certainly not at the time. It's definitely not true with the first one, with De Palma and the approach that was taken there.

Could you say it about Dead Reckoning Part 1 in the final reckoning? Yeah, absolutely you could say that, right? As I say, anybody can disagree with any one of these individual statements, but I think, if anything, that's how it's reflective of the time in which is made, it's, that it's become more samey, you know? Yeah, it's become, it does take less risks, and I mean creative risks, right? I'm not talking, like, you know, because obviously you say

that and you say, what are you talking about? He was hanging off a biplane, and it was like, yeah, okay, but creatively, creatively it takes far less risks and it did early on this run. Yes, I mean, that's a trend for all the franchises that we've seen, is that they get into a mould and they stop taking risks and they stop being original. So, you know, like the Jurassic World films gradually become

incredibly samie and dull. The alien films settle into this trend where they're not actually exploring anything interesting or new. But yeah, I think it's to be pretty clear that this franchise does the same. It settles into this tone that is comfortable and this mold that it does not shift out of and it stops taking risks and it becomes very samey. I think I kind of I mentioned this on the Final Reckoning episode. Like, the climax of that film is just the climax of fallout, like straight up in terms of structure and character motivations. It's just fallout again.

And it worked in Fallout, but it doesn't work in Final Reckoning because you did it two films ago. And in terms of directorial distinctiveness, interestingly, I think you can also hear us disagree on this on Cynotopia podcast with regards to the Sam Rameyness of Dr. Strange 2. which I think we reviewed on there and I didn't think it was very Sam Ramey at all

but we had that description. I can't remember what I said at the time I'm doing it wrong, it's very fleeting when it does appear but yeah I find that an interesting aspect of it and I've said it takes less fewer rather

creative risks right it also takes fewer risks in terms of the themes and ideas it kind of laces through it, right? Like, if you think back to Mission Possible, the first one, right, and all the stuff about, you know, how security agencies operate that was underneath all that and, you know, who's in charge and how do they treat people and all this sort of stuff. And you think even, you know, and that carries through,

it kind of disappears maybe a bit for Mission Possible too. But then when you come back to Mission Possible 3 and particular ghost protocol and the initial Macquarie ones where there's still this element of you know who watches the watchman to a certain extent right it kind of drops that as well I mean like at that point it really has none of this see here so it's not even saying anything particularly like even Rogue Nation right so the first Macquarie one I've spoken before about how you can read that in a certain way with kind of like these deep state ideas and this sort of Like, it's getting nowhere near that now.

I mean, like, the final reckoning is in this kind of, like, mode where, you know, we spoke about at the time where we've got nuclear powers up on the wall and kind of like, you know, we're, you know, Matt's established countries and just, and there's nothing about kind of like what the relationship is between these countries and how they trust here, if not. And again, I'm not saying they has to do that. That's not what I expect from a mission possible film. But it's also impossible to escape the fact. it did make nods to these things just a few films ago, right? Nobody's saying it needs to be the primary focus, but it's just not taking any risk there at all. And it's also indicative of Macquarie's approach, right?

If you think about Top Gun Maverick and, you know, the way it kind of talks about kind of like enemy, you know, the way it presents kind of the enemy there, it's just, it's very, it's become blander, right? It's not that I want these things to be the main focus. but I do want a bit of seasoning, you know? Yes. I mean, this comes back to the article that I've referred to throughout this series

in the Los Angeles Review of Books by Pat Cassells talking about how the Mission Impossible franchise talks about American intelligence, how it talks about unaccountable government entities. And that talks about how the first film talks about the Frank Church hearings in a way that later films just absolutely could not do. Not just that they wouldn't, that they couldn't, because structurally and tonally they have changed to such an extent that it would be, it makes no sense for it to be there anymore.

And yet those first few films do have this political edge, do talk about government overreach and the overreach of intelligence and the limits of what you can do in terms of intelligence, that entirely goes away, you know? And then we have Tom Cruise putting someone in a box and tricking them into giving some kind of confession in a way that's wholly unethical. I'm just going to go off on a small tangent here. Have you seen the naked gun? I haven't yet, no.

There is a great mission impossible bit around kind of putting someone in a box and getting a confession out of them using, you know, faking a, faking a scenario. that's by the buy but yeah it's entirely lost its political by it and you know it's interesting that in retrospect that charts with the rise of neo-fascism

in America these blockbuster franchises don't touch politics anymore like at all like no the MCU is completely apolitical attempts to be

because obviously it's embedded in a kind of militaristic American way of doing things Yeah, I mean, I think the thing It's like, just because this is an idea I've been tossing around my head and writing I may well have written an article about it by the time this episode comes out, we'll see.

But I think the thing that I find strange about let's see, and I think it's particularly clear in the final reckoning, right? If you think about the way, you know, the way that the present in that film butts up

against her joint chiefs, and then, you know, you have to see where, kind of like, Nick Offerman gets shot, protecting, or despite the fact he's the one who's disagreed to her through it out and that sort of thing, right? It's not even so much that they're being apolitical, right? Because apolitical kind of implies to say that there and said that there are no politics, right? Yes. It's more that they are being, they are, and I've got the most recent Captain America film in my head when I say this. I think it's true for others as well that will come to me in a minute. But they are being

actively and aggressively bipartisan, right? Yes. It's not so much that they're apolitical. Yeah, it's not so much that they're apolitical, it's that they're so embedded in a politics that they can't see outside it. And that politics is, like you say, trying to be bipartisan

then, within the kind of American context of what is right and left wing. So you do end up with this slightly, maybe not slightly, but certainly kind of centre-right version of reality that is trapped in American hegemony. Yeah, and it's this slightly, I mean, it's, I think my problem with my problem with films that have taken this approach recently is they basically sometimes end up amounting to kind of, and I think I wrote that, I didn't write a review of it, but I think I said this about

Alex Garland's Civil War I think was the one that I first said this about. It's just kind of like slightly limp, can't we all get along? You know, and it's like, no. No, we absolutely could not. And like, I don't think this

I don't think the final reckoning does that. to the same extent. I think it maybe is slightly more apolitical than something like Civil War or Captain America. What was it in the end? It was a Brave New World. Was the

title in the end? It was going to be New World Order until someone pointed out that right wing conspiracy. Which kind of speaks to my idea that these are all framed in terms of centre-right politics. You know, and it's just that is something that you also see happen over

time with this, and it's something that you've seen happen with blockbuster films in general. I think it's quite striking to look at older films and see when there is actually kind of like an explicit political point made. It might only be made briefly. It might only be made in

like a couple of lines or via one character, but that's just something that's not really happening now. And I do think the Final Reckoning shows that quite markedly, but it is a slow drift over time, right? And that comes with Macquarie. It comes comes with the more recent films.

Like that seems kind of, you know, that's suspicion of the state that is present in, for certain, the first film, right? But also, frankly, the first Macquarie film in Rogue Nation. Totally gone by the Final Reckoning. Just not there. No, instead it's propping up this kind of individualistic idea of a messianic figure who will do the right thing who will do the right thing

independent of government or state none of those powers matter because ultimately it's down to the individual will of this Uber Mensch, Ethan Hunt who will always do the right thing and is driven by his kind of libertarian impulse to do the right thing to freedom

apart from kind of the American state or the government while also still be complex while also still complexly being intertwined with the state because he is still a state functionary ostensibly. Yeah, I mean, I think, and it's interesting what you say there because that's definitely what, that's definitely the mode. I mean, again, a slow drift over the Macquarie films

to this kind of like messianic interpretation of Ethan Hunt where, you know, I mean, I think we put our, you know, I made the point before about some of the lines that Alec Baldwin have. You could just stick lemon on the end of them and that shows up how ridiculous they are, sound like 30 rock lines. But the serious point underlying that is it becomes about him. And we've spoken about the physicality of Cruz

and how he's kind of like, you know, more reluctant than, you know, typical kind of like superheroes engaging in superhuman feats would be. But that's the unique aspect. beyond that it has very much drifted towards this is all about him right and you know there's course corrections along the way like mission possible three for all of its faults brought back in the team dynamic the mission possible two got rid of uh ghost protocol then did it you know extremely well and then it kind of you know it persists but again there's a drift away from it right and there's a and it's a weird weird thing going on with the final reckoning where we said there's

not a identity crisis, if there's anything resembling it, it's the desire to keep this kind of like theme of friendship and teamwork around, whilst also basically making Ethan Hunt the superhero. I mean, he is at this point. You know, and the focus on it

and kind of like everybody relying on him, you know, in that sense, him averting wargretta, I mean, it's kind of indistinguishable from like the general plot trajectory of a Captain America film. You know, and that That's an interesting change, particularly when you look at it compared to the first one.

So it's still, it's kind of, you know, it's a juggernaut that's plowed on regardless. It's not, it's not immune to these trends in filmmaking. And I think that has probably come about because, frankly, Christopher McQuarrie as a director, does not have a particularly identifiable stylistic vision. Right. So there's much less to mark the films out in that regard, and he and Cruz just seemed to become less interested in that over time, just as Blockbuster filmmaking has become less interested in that over time. Yes. Ultimately, these are creators who do not tie aesthetics into politics. Like, they don't bring a political aesthetic. They're entirely separate. Not entirely separate because they are obviously impeded in this kind of deep. default centre right position that is the kind of American Hollywood

blockbuster position but they're not tying it to a particular point of view or anything like that or questioning it I mean I think that's the thing you can look at you could look at certainly the first mission possible even the second one with the kind of like

the Sean Ambrose character being a weird sort of inversion of hunt even Mission Possible three when you think about kind of you know, the way that Kerry Russell's character is treated. There's at least some questioning going on there, right?

You know, it's meant to be an accessible blockbuster film. I don't think it's necessarily doing it very well, in particular in Mission Possible Three's case, it's doing it poorly and embracing other aspects of it that kind of undermining anything we do in that regard. But the point is there is at least some

prodding at the status quo there, right? As much as you might expect from an action blockbuster franchise, but That's completely absent as the films go on. Well, yeah, compared to the Final Reckoning, kind of half-hearted. Oh, AI might be bad. Theme, you know,

where you've also got Gabriel, who's doing it for some reason, doing something for some reason. But it's never clear what it is, and the problem is just this AI, which happens to be bad. Yeah. Yeah.

That was quite a long tangent, because I want to take us back to what directors are doing now, because it feels remiss to talk about this franchise without talking about what Tom Cruise is doing next because Tom Cruise has been such a important creative force on this franchise as an actor but also later as a producer.

He has produced the last majority of these films and he obviously has quite a direct impact on them as I don't want to say Artur because I don't believe in Artur Fairy but as anuteur, like he is the driving force behind them, it would seem. And so to look at what Tom Cruise is doing next, he is continuing to produce, obviously producing all these things that we mentioned with Christopher McCrory, but he is also starring in an as yet untitled film directed by Alejandro Gonzalez in O'Too,

which was filming in London recently. And sounds like, I don't know, a refreshing change of pace for him, maybe. Yeah, because the thing is, right, I mean, like Tom Cruise has become Mr. Mission Impossible, but I actually think he's a very interesting career, and I think many of my favorite films of it are actually not Mission Impossible films, right? No, in the last few years, it has been Mission Impossible and Top Gun, which is a shame, because there is more to him than actor than those. Yeah, like, you know, we've spoken a little bit about that little period you went through

where he did a bunch of sci-fi stuff, which I think was all quite good. And I find him working with Inoritu, I find interesting. Because for me, I think one of Tom Cruise's best performances is probably Magnolia. Oh, yeah. And so Paul Thomas Anderson's Magnolia. And so I find it interesting that the first thing he's doing that were kind of like off the back of Mission Possible films is going back to somebody who would probably be, more traditionally seen as an otter, right? Yeah, a bit like you and I questioned, you know, otter that you were not going to get into it,

but like somebody you certainly placed in that kind of category, right? I think Cruz works best when he has a, someone, when he's working with someone who has a stronger vision than he does, where Cruz is not guiding the vision. So Paul Thomas Anderson for Magnolia, Stanley Kubrick for Eyes Wide Shutt, directs him in a really interesting way and get something really interesting out of the figure of Tom Cruise, who obviously was quite different in 1999 than he is now, but still gets something interesting that is kind of deep inside Tom Cruise struggling to come out.

Well, I mean, his best modern performances, I think, right? Or, let me put this a different way. The films that have utilised him, I think, in the best way possible, or the ones that kind of harness that weird intensity he has because we've spoken before about how Tom Cruise is a deeply weird little man, right? You know, and I say that, is it, how tall is Tom Cruise, actually? I know he's meant to be short, but how... He's meant to be short, he stands on boxes and gets lifts and stuff.

Yeah, I'm just watching what I say, because I'm not convinced I'm actually... Reportedly. I'm not convinced I'm actually any taller than I'm... Yeah, but you're not trying to hide it. Yeah. No, no, true. I'm not... I'm not... I'm not walking around with three-inch, lift to my shoes. Yeah, right. So, they're the ones that kind of like harness that weird intensity

has, right? Magnolia is a good example. Eyeswise Shout is another example. I'm actually quite a defender of Vanilla Sky, right? I think that's another one where it matches. And I think maybe one of the best examples of it, I'd kind of forgotten about it was collateral Michael Mann's film, right?

Yes. I watched that a few weeks ago and yeah, that really works for Tom Cruise. Man clearly understands what Tom Cruise is and what he is capable of because he gets this really intense performance out of him while also being, while also letting Cruz be incredibly charming, which he is, but there's like darkness behind that, that smile. Yeah.

That man absolutely captures. So yeah, Michael Mann is another example of someone having a stronger vision than him. Yeah, exactly, which is why I brought it at that point you read there. That, to me, is like a perfect. I think Magnolia is a good vision, but I think collateral actually. I mean, I like both films. I think they're both excellent. I mean, I'd probably put it in a way above collateral.

For the point you're making, I think collateral is really a perfect example of exactly what you were talking about there. Yeah, I did hear one of a story about Tom Cruise recently, which is that Glenn Powell, his friend Glenn Powell, went to visit him in London on the, set of this Inuitou film and it was the day that David Lynch passed away and Glenn Powell was on the set at this moment as Cruz gathered everyone for a moment of silence. He sort of said, can we just talk about what an amazing guy David Lynch was and what he did for filmmaking and we're about to get the honour of making a movie so let's talk about this guy and Glenn Powell was very impressed by this. But, you know, Tom Cruise is driven by, I think a job.

genuine love of the movies. Like, he does love cinema, and clearly he has an appreciation for figures like David Lynch, who have a strong duetorial and creative vision. Yeah, and I think I've seen, I've seen video of him talking, you know, when they were doing

runs of, um, the Mission Possible films at the BFI, right? And I've seen videos of him talking about cinema and filmmaking, stuff. And I, I, 100% find it sincere, you know, like, I don't think there's any disin, you know, I don't think, um, for all Tom Cruise's

fault, I don't think he's, I don't think he's a disingenuous man, right? I said, you know, like, I mean, from whenever I've seen in public statements and like, that comes with, it comes with many problems. No, I think it's played up for PR purposes, especially this all-encompassing vision of him as the saviour of the movies. Oh, yeah, no, I'm not on board with that, but, yeah, you know. But I think the man, the man himself, as far as, as we can ever know the man

does have a genuine love of cinema and doing this kind of work even if he is a cult leader. Yeah, even if he is a deeply strange little man. Deeply weird little man. You know, and I don't think we have in this series, and I've been very keen to not do

that, and I don't want to gloss over that, right? Because I think another thing that I find fascinated with the Mission Impossible films, and maybe this is, you know, putting my conspiracy hat on, right, the blandness of some of its political underpiddings, you know, growing is maybe a part of this. It has managed to launder his reputation in a way that I think is absolutely unparalleled in modern celebrity. Yeah, truly. You know, like, you know, and I'm not

one of these people who kind of like bangs on about cancel culture, right? But I do think, like, we are in a mode, a period of history where because we've got social media and, you know, information is freely available where, you know, anybody gets any modicum fame, like, we're automatic that, like, there's all, say, a pool to kind of, like, find the tweet or the thing they said, right? So, I don't believe in cancel culture or such, but, like, that's, this kind of, like, trying to pin people for, kind of, like, the most minor indiscretions is definitely a thing. However, going against all of that, you have the scenario where Tom Cruise has definitely engaged in some extremely questionable

things. The cult, which he is at the head of, most definitely has. And he was pilloried for it a lot. And I remember the Oprah sofa jumping and suffolkate homes and, you know, various other bits and bobs. And that's not really, it's not the primary thing that is mentioned about Tom Cruise anymore. And it's kind of like pushed to one side. the idea that he is with some of the stuff that he's been involved with over the last two or three decades sitting answering questions at the BFI is kind of

incredible in some ways because I can think of lots of people who have probably done far less objectionable things than him where that wouldn't be greeted with quite the same sort of excitement and warmth and I'm not really making a value judgment about whether one is better than the other or whether that should be the case.

It's just interesting to note, you know? Yeah. What did you do this evening? Oh, I went to see a talk by a close friend of David Miscavich. Yeah. No one's saying that. But they did. And they will.

Yeah, so I think on that note, we should pivot towards looking at our rankings, overall rankings of this franchise, and how it sits with each of us. Do you want to go first? Yeah, are we going from top to bottom or bottom to top? Let's go top to bottom. Okay. So at the top, I have put the original at the top.

Mm-hmm. I think pretty much from the start, I have been thinking I would probably end up with this one at the top. Well, getting to kind of the things that ran it close, but for me, there is just a sort of, a clarity of vision here from a filmmaking standpoint that I still find incredibly engaging. And I think even if some of the effects

for kind of the final sequence have aged a little bit, it is paced in such a way that it's just you can't take your eyes off it. I also love the way that it seems to bridge the gap between, I think, kind of the older kind of espionage like Lacare style thrillers, with kind of modern action cinema I think makes it kind of unique

in that regard. So I think that's why I've ended up putting it there, I think. Yeah, no, I agree with all that. Go to your next one and then I'll discuss my top two. Yeah, because I think we've got it on the other words. So my second one is Ghost Protocol, right? I think just because

it represents for everything with the later iteration of this series, right? Because obviously we're skipping over two films, which we'll come back to in coming to this one this one to me represents everything

that is good about the later mission possible films the set pieces are engaging they are past well there's a fun character dynamic it has the heist element

it has kind of the hijinks and the ridiculousness whilst also not being too kind of like too far-fetched and out there but I think what it has above the Macquarie versions that come after this is it has that visual, it has that visual language understanding, it has an understanding of how to shoot these scenes to really take them up a level, right, to take them up from just impressive to impressive and engaging and memorable,

right? So the first one, I prefer it because of all the things I mentioned and kind of like that nexus point in filmmaking, it almost kind of seems to embody, this one, This is the best one of the rest of them, by far, because everything that I expect from these films, and I think this film does well, these films rather do well, this does it well, and it is the kind of just the most skilled expression of them. Yeah, so I have these first two as my top two, but they are switched around. So I have Ghost Protocol at number one, and Mission Impossible at number two, for all the reasons that you have said, but ultimately I think I edged out, I, ghost protocol, edged, it to number one for me because it is such fun and it clicks in such a great way. Like it is just great blockbuster filmmaking in a way that you see so rarely these days. That everything, almost everything about it just works incredibly well.

Like the script is great, the set pieces are fantastic, the cinematography it looks great and it really establishes what a Mission Impossible film should be for me. It is like this platonic ideal of the Mission Impossible film. If we're taking in the whole span of the franchise, this is what they were aiming for, like, on average. Hmm. So for me, that one really works particularly well. I love the first mission impossible film for all the reasons that you've said and what it represents and the kind of clear directorial vision that you get from Parma de Parma and what it achieves in terms of spy film, spy cinema.

Yeah, for me, ghost protocol just edges it. know, it's nothing against mission impossible. Yeah. No, I think it's interesting because when we're going to talk about the rest of the rank, I think there are ones where I could easily switch them around. I don't think I would be on this one, right? But I think these two are clearly the best two to me, right? Yeah. And I think what's interesting is I think clearly we agree on that, particularly once we actually get into the rest of the rank, I think it will become clear that as the case. and it's just kind of like

we're putting different weights on the things that make these things, these films good. Yeah. So I think it would probably like, I'm looking at our rankings here. I think it would be good to talk about the next two as a pair as well.

Yes, so do I. And the reason for, yeah, the reason for that being, so I have put Fallout in third place and Rogue Nation in fourth and you've done it the other way around where you've got Rogue Nation slightly above Fallout. Correct.

So this is one of the, this is probably, Looking at my ranking, yeah, this is kind of the other pair, I would say, where on a different day, you could probably convince me you put these another way around, right? They kind of, they sit together for me, like, pretty well. And when you think about the plots of the two of them, kind of like the way Solomon Lane carries over, like, you know, that kind of stands to reason. I think for Fallout in particular, I think there's just, I think that concluding set piece is very. very good. I really appreciate Henry Cavill's role here. I think Fallout, just, I found it slightly more engaging, perhaps, but I'm not going to lie, these are kind of sitting together. I could easily switch these around on a, on a different day. But I think there was something about the twistiness of it with the Henry Cavill plot and all the rest of which I found quite engaging and in a slightly more interesting way than I think they did

with Ilsa Faust in Rogue Nation, right? But they're both very good films, they both establish things like Ilsa Faust, which I think go on to be extremely good part of the franchise. They both have memorable set pieces, I think maybe Fallout built towards theirs a little bit better. You know, like Rogue Nations, I think about it, like, it's essentially a foot chase, really, and it's kind of neat at the end, whereas I think Fallout built in a way that I would expect,

but I could easily be convinced to switch these around them, kind of, their minor differences here. So, as you said, I have those switched around. I have Rogue Nation at number three and Fallout at number four. And this is because I don't think Fallout works as well as Rogue Nation.

I think by the time you get to Fallout, it is starting to feel a little stagnant, as I said on the episode. Things are starting to feel a little stade. It's still a great action film. It still works. It is engaging for all the reasons you said. It's just starting to feel a little stale in a way where Rogue Nation feels fresher. Not as good as Ghost Protocol, but it still feels fresh and innovative and exciting. Rebecca Ferguson gives a real boost as Ilsa Faust and I like what

Rogue Nation does in terms of kind of inverting the franchise as I talked about on the episode there's some interesting inversions particularly in the structure going from a big set piece to a smaller chase to cap it off that's an interesting thing to do

more interesting I think than what Fallout does which is kind of stayed for me yeah I thought that you know I mean, that's evidence about the fact we put in a different order. I don't 100% agree, but I think that's all fair enough comment, right? I think for me, there's something about the action fallout that feels a little bit more ambitious,

and I think that kept me engaged. And I think these two films represent, in terms of kind of the expression of this franchise, right? They represent the peak in a way. I don't necessarily mean that in terms of kind of like quality of what I think the film because as we just established, I think, there are two films that I think are better than these two films. But I more mean it in these are the films where it's not outstayed, it's welcome, right? I don't believe Fallout is significantly better than Rogue Nation, right?

I just said that. I do feel like, and, you know, we'll get into it in a minute, Dead Reckoning Part 1 is noticeably a drop off in Fallout. and, you know, we'll get into the rankings after that. But the point is, I feel like this is the point before they became tired for me, right? And I think Fallout didn't feel tired in a way that the ones after it did. In the case of your ranking, I think basically you've got that sense from Fallout more so than me, right? I think the trend is very similar.

I think it's more just, obviously, I've had a bit more patience for Fallout. But as I see, you can convince me you switch these around on a different day, I think. Then I think the next three are a good set, because they're all different for us. You go through your next three. No, numbers five, six, and seven. Yeah, okay, so we'll do five, six, and seven, which we'll reveal that we've both put the same thing as... Well, yeah, obviously. I'm sure we'll talk about that at the end, right?

So after this, I have put... Actually put, and I'm quite surprised by this, I've put dead reckoning... Part 1, or Dead Reckoning, part 1, in fifth position. I've put Mission Possible 2 and 6th, and then I've put the final reckoning below both of those. Whereas in, well, I'll let you talk about your order when you come to it, because we've actually ordered us, the one way that could be entirely different, I think. Yeah, right. So part of the reason for this is, I don't think any of these are particularly.

great films. You know, we've reached this stage in the ranking where, you know, I'm not, I'm not really on board with any of them to an extent. However, on re-watching it, I enjoyed Dead Reckoning Part 1 a lot more than I did in the cinema, right? And I think part of the reason of it, particularly when we were watching this, when I was watching this through as a run for this series, it does thing, anything it does poor, mission possible two or the final reckoning probably does it worse in my view right the action in the the actioning and dead reckoning part one is pretty good right i think for me with you know a couple of caveats it's pretty it's pretty good right it's a damn sight better than mission

possible two's right the team dynamic is there in a way that it's not in mission possible two it's portentous and is definitely trending towards this weird messianic status of Ethan Hunt doesn't do it as badly as the final reckoning does it have a lot of flim flam exposition talking about various other things and fanny and around with that stuff yes the final reckoning does it worse right so it's more a case of it does enough things just well enough that I think it's better than those two I also kind of there were aspects of it I appreciated, right? I like the set piece on the train. I like the ridiculousness of the Vanessa Kirby switcheroo. I thought Haley Atwell was very engaging. There are things I like

about this film, right? There's very little that I like about Mission Possible too, to be honest. Like there's bits and bobs. The final reckoning definitely does some stuff well, but, you know, we discussed at length the problems with that. So it's not that I think dead reckoning part one is good. it's, I think it, all the things it does, it does better than the other two. With regards to the rank of Mission Possible 2, above the Final Reckoning, that's purely just because at least it's doing something different, you know? Like, you know, I mean, it's, it is a more memorable film. I remember more about Mission Possible 2 than I do about the Final Reckoning.

And then particularly if you fast forward, 10 years, there's been no Mission Possible film and a legacy sequel comes out, I will remember more about Mission Possible two than the very last film in the franchise. And it comes all of its issues that we've discussed at length, but I think you would struggle to describe that film as boring, right? The final reckoning is incredibly boring for huge stretches of its runtime. So again, it's kind of, I don't believe either of them are good. In fact, I would go so far as to say both of them are bad, but I would put Mission Impossible 2 off to Final Reckoning for that reason.

Sure. So for similar reasons, I have Mission Impossible 2 at 5, Final Reckoning at 6, and Dead Reckoning at 7. So the reason behind that is I think Mission Impossible 2 is a more distinctive film,

is a more interesting film, because at least it has a directorial stamp on it, and it's doing something interesting. Even if I don't particularly like it, so I'm facing the same dilemma I faced in the Jurassic Park ranking which is that Mission Impossible 2 is a misogynistic film in a way that Jurassic World also was and how do I you know how do I lower it in my ranking because of that

and maybe it speaks badly to me that I have been able to overlook the misogyny in favour of interest in favour of my own interest in the film but yes, I've put it above Final Reckoning and Dead Reckoning just because it's doing something more. So the thing with Final Reckoning and Dead Reckoning is that they are so boring, like they are so boring and overlong and badly written and a real slog to get through.

I've put Final Reckoning above Dead Reckoning because I think Final Reckoning picks up in its last hour. I think that last hour works pretty well. in a way that Dead Reckoning does not work throughout Dead Reckoning is a poor script all the way through whereas Final Reckoning has a very poor first outer but is then redeemed by the second half which is not bad

not great but not bad Dead Reckoning is just a slog Dead Reckoning is so poor I see this is a funny thing because I think like having especially having like done the rewatch of Dead Reckoning for here everything you're describing is kind of how I feel

about these films in reverse right you know because I think Dead Reckoning part one it definitely has a poor script right as evidence by the fact it has Strasser and then drop to the next film and it doesn't have proper ending like you know I don't think either of us are saying this is a good film right

they're both poorly written and they're both examples of why would you commit to two films without having written two Melton's. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, I think there's things about Dead Reckoning part one

that I enjoyed, right? So I mentioned Haley Atwell, and I think like some of the stuff with like slight hand or being the pick pocket, that's fun, you know? I find that interesting. It brings back Tom Cruise's terrible Italian pronunciation and accent, you know, I appreciated

that. It's got a pretty good car chase with the you know, the feet. Like, there are things I like about it and I think they're kind of spread across the film. It's got like four car chases. It's got like four car chases and one of them is pretty good. Yeah. Okay. No, like yeah, okay, the ratio is not great.

Like, you know, but there were things I liked to that. Like the final reckoning, though, I just you know, I don't know, it just reminded me as so many films that I was just bored by. Like, and it's... Yeah, I don't

think it's good, but I like the bit on the submarine. I liked what's his name? The character who's married to the Indigenous woman. I liked him. Yeah, no, that's fair. Yeah. A great deal.

This is all true, but at the same time, the climax of that film is, you know, Haley Atwell trying to pull a USB thumb drive out at the precise, correct? You know, it's just like, like, guys, come on. You know, and I've realized that, you know, cruise is dangling off a plane, you know, simultaneously with that. But, like, but as I would said, you've already really seen that with Fallout.

And the other part of it is kind of like, you know, Haley Atwell and Simon Pegg sitting in a server room, basically, like, trying to pull a dongle out at the right time. And I'm like, this is ridiculous. Like, this is absurd. You know, so, like, I appreciate it does pick up. But I think in comparison, the Dead Reckney Part, one, it tried my patience so much by that point that I was just past it, you know? Yeah. Yeah, we're just going around on this. Yeah.

So, no, I find that little run of rankings, though, interest, you know, because we've actually, we've ordered them in the one way that we'd, like, have them just completely different to one another. Yeah, I mean, on a different day, I would probably put Mission Impossible 2 below Dead Reckoning. I think I'd treat Final Reckoning and Dead Reckoning as a pair and move to either where it is now above them or below them entirely, depending on how I feel like on the day. I think that's where we're probably slightly different because I do get a much different sense from

Dead Reckon. I could imagine myself watching Dead Reckon. Genuinely, right, if for whatever reason I was tasked with watching the Mission Possible films again and I got to watch them in my preference order of my ranking, right? I would definitely watch the first four again.

I might watch Dead Reckoning part one and I wouldn't bother my arse with anything below it. So in that sense, they do feel separate to me a little bit. Yeah, I think this comes down to how we feel about dead reckoning, because I was toying with dead reckoning dead last, but ultimately couldn't justify it, but I just dislike dead reckoning so much. It is such a slog, it is so badly written, but ultimately had to go with what we've both put at number eight. On the topic of badly written slogs.

I couldn't justify it because I had to put this last. It's Mission Impossible Free. And we both put that last. It sucks. It sucks. It's poorly written. The action set pieces are incoherent. And it looks terrible.

That's the overriding thing for me. Digital camera. I actually really solidified it here. You know, oversaturatedness. That just looks really bad. It's not pleasant to watch. It's not fun to watch. it also has

some egregious violence against women for no reason maybe the only redeeming feature is Philip Seymour Hoffman yeah Lawrence Fishburn is okay but he has that weird line about slavery

at one point that is quite a strange thing to make him say yeah I think the thing the thing that ended up being the biggest issue with this film, right?

I think for me I actually did end up being the aesthetics of it. Yeah. Because I think it's been discussed on the episode, right? And this is also it speaks to a little bit about our thing about these films becoming less and, you know, more apolitical

or less kind of like interesting in their politics as they go along. The politics of this film is quite interesting, right? That was one thing that I do think it had going for it, right? And you could disagree with the way it presents various things, but, like, there's something there to, like, glom on to. I think also, if this film is going to be redeemed in any way whatsoever, it would be

Philip Seymour Hoffman's performance, right? Yeah, I know a lot of people really rate it. I think it's just fine, but it is a highlight of this film. Like, it stands out, like, a diamond and a turd. Yeah, I think that's the thing for me. Like, I mean, I'm not... You know, I don't know. Philip Seymour Hoffman, wonderful actor, right?

and as a result he gives a good performance here and it elevates the film the film is shit you know like the film I'm sorry the film other opinions are available don't don't at me etc

right the film is shite the script is shite right Philip Seabor Hoffman is a talented enough was sadly a talented enough guy

that if you're given that you'll get something out of it it's still shite you know and I think the thing is you can get you can shite can go a long way do you think I've sworn enough to get us that

putting in a warning label that we have on the podcast spot for JET right but like you know it a shite script can still go quite a long way if you make it look good

yeah right you know cinema is a visual weed job right but this is horrible it's just there's nothing there's nothing I cannot remember a single shot from this film that impressed me. You can give me any of the other ones,

and I will probably be able to come up with something. This one, no, absolutely not. And I think when you combine that with all the other kind of like underwritten elements and uninteresting bits, it doesn't have a lot left going, to be honest. You know, it's like, you know, and maybe that's just unfortunate, you know, I mean, maybe if you gave Mission Possible 3 the budget of the final reckoning

and, you know, better cinematography, maybe it might sit higher in this list, I don't know, but it doesn't. Yeah, that's not the film movie. And I think that, like, my opinions on the final wrecking Mission Possible 3, and again, this is probably where our rankings differ, despite the fact I have Mission Possible

three at the bottom like you, is I would consider switching those two, right? but there's just something about kind of like the style or more accurately in my view the complete lack of it in Mission Possible 3 that ultimately is what's made me put it at the bottom and I'm surprised by that because going into this series I had much better clearly they were very rose tinted spectacles or maybe you know J.J. Abrams had put a ridiculous filter on my vision or something where like I actually thought it was half decent but like watching it now. admittedly my sensibilities have probably changed a lot in the whatever it was like 20 odd years since I'd watched it previously not good not good not even half decent so yeah to sort of run through that as a whole my ranking is number one ghost protocol number two mission impossible

number three rogue nation number four fallout number five mission impossible two number six final reckoning number seven dead reckoning and number eight mission impossible three In my case we've gone for Mission Possible Top and Ghost Protocol Fall Out and Rogue Nation and then Dead Reckoning Part 1 Mission Possible 2

The Final Reckoning and Rockbottom Mission Possible 3 And I think I'm trying to find I'm trying to find our show notes here Because I've actually got some broad categories for each of these

Right? You do Yes I do So I've got Mission Possible and Ghost Protocol I've put into the category of superb. Fallout and Rogue Nation sitting really good. Dead Reckoning Part 1. They match, you know, how we talked

about them. We said we'll talk about these two, then we'll talk about these two. Yeah, and then after this is when we start to diverge, right? I've got Dead Reckoning Part 1 is eh. You know, very expressive. And then the last one's Mission Possible 2, Final Reckoning, and Mission Possible 3, is

a bit shit. Yep. Yeah. I am a very articulate and well-spoken film critic Please read my writing on take one cinema.net Where I would give you such insights as it's a bit shit No star reviews but eh reviews Yeah

Yeah ratings When will letterbox catch up to that I would actually do rating a letterbox if that's how you did it To be honest You should be able to You know you've got a pro account or whatever I think if you're paying enough money I think of it, like, you could just map onto the existing star ratings.

You just need one in the middle, right? Super, really good, fine, eh, and a bit of shit. You should be able to customize your rankings. Yeah. That should be a feature. But yeah, that is, that's our final ranking. That's our final reckoning, I think, of the Mission Impossible franchise. Do we have any more to say on Mission Impossible,

or have we exhausted everything over the months that we've been doing this? yeah i'm pretty sure over the course of nine episodes on it i think we've said everything if we haven't done any two better show notes frankly everything that's possible to say about mission impossible so this has been the impossipod our third series in this take one presents series where we look at franchise films what's coming next for take one presents. I don't know.

At the time of recording, I don't know. I think you might need to have a conversation. We don't know. We'll have a conversation and have a think and potentially come back. So do say subscribe, you know, continue listening to the feed. We'll put out of our stuff on this feed as and when we have it. But for now, I think that covers Mission Impossible. So we can close the book on that and put it on the shelf like we did Alien and Jurassic Park.

And maybe one day it'll come back off the shelf in the way. that those series did but as of now there is no plans for another mission impossible film so yeah thank you for listening continue to follow us on social media wherever you found us

go to take one cinema.net for more cinema discussion and reviews and whatnot listen to Cynotopia podcast which we occasionally guessed on to talk about films that are coming out independent films art house films and festival films

and yeah continue to follow us wherever we are. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Simon. And we'll see you next time, whenever next time is. Staying, self-destrooked. Thank you.