Taking 20 Podcast - Ep 191 - DM Lessons from Baldur’s Gate 3

Episode Date: September 10, 2023

Baldur's Gate 3 is an amazing game and even though it doesn't have a Dungeon Master per se, it does have some good advice and lessons that all of us can use to improve our DM style.  In this episode I give 8 tips I learned about DMing from Baldur's Gate 3   #dmtips #baldursgate3 #dnd #pathfinder   Resources: https://www.hipstersanddragons.com/difficulty-classes-for-ability-checks-5e/ Larian Studios:  https://larian.com/

This week on the Taking20 Podcast. In Baldur's Gate 3, nearly every combat I've had so far has afforded the opportunity to get your ranged martial and spellcasters to higher ground. That makes them more effective since it's easier for them to cast at distant creatures, and it makes creatures expend more movement to get to them. wherever you happen to be thank you for listening to the taking 20 podcast episode 191 lessons we can all learn about dming from balder's gate 3 i want to thank our sponsor computer mice i tried about four different mice on my computer until i found the one i adore i knew it was the right one because we just clicked. So what did you all think of the interview episode? Now that you've heard one again, should I do more of them? And if so, whom would you like me to interview? If you have ideas and or know someone that you feel would give a good interview, feel free to send me their information

or have them reach out to me directly on social media or feedback at taking20podcast.com. For those of you who don't follow video games, Larian Studios recently released a game called Baldur's Gate 3, which is an absolute masterpiece of the RPG genre, built on the rule set for D&D 5e. Like, I'll bet, quite a few of you, I've carved out a little bit of time, not nearly as much time as I want, mind you, to play a little bit of Baldur's Gate 3. The greatest praise I can heap on that game is that it makes me feel like I'm young again, playing some of the great RPGs from yesteryear, like the Mass Effect trilogy, the Witcher series, Fallout, the first Diablo, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic,

and I could go on and on because I love me some RPGs. I haven't completed Baldur's Gate yet, because no, I haven't had close to the amount of time that I need to complete it. I'm just in Act 2 at the moment, and there's a lot of loose story threads to pull on and one boss fight that looms really large in the near future. It's going to be a doozy. So since things like work take up a large amount of my life, I'm playing when I can. An hour here, an hour there, and really just soaking in the game. I tend to make my first playthrough of most RPGs as close to my personality as I can, and honestly, I've made some mistakes along the way. I've had some glorious moments

and some horrible failures and built great relationships. I will admit I love me some Shadowheart. Pretty girl, dark hair, pale skin, mysterious past, my god, there's nothing appealing there at all. And you make sure you tell my wife I said that. But then I found Karlak, who is just so freaking charming. She's fun and funny, and she has some depth to her personality the more you interact with her. I really, really like her. But no, I made my choice, and I'm going to ride or die Shadowheart. Hi, this is Jeremy during editing. I realized by accidentally leaving out the word with, as in ride or die with Shadowheart, instead of ride or die Shadowheart, just how raunchy that sounded. So I am sorry about that, but I'm not quite sorry enough to take it out, because it made me laugh.

This doesn't change the fact that I'm going to try to forge a relationship with Shadowheart, or as I've heard her name shortened online, Shart. I do love me some Shart. Anyway, Baldur's Gate 3 is a computer game and doesn't have a DM per se. It has core programming based on the 5e rule set and things like object states and traps, monsters, quests, scenarios, outcomes, and a branching decision tree. It's not a DM, but it kind of feels like one. Plus, the narrator, voiced by Amelia Tyler, has one of the smoothest voices I have ever heard. I would give my eye teeth to have a voice that sounded that refined. Sorry, back on topic.

Despite multiple articles that I've read describing the Baldur's Gate DM as, quote, hard or quote mean, I think there's a lot we can learn about running our games from the programmed DM in Baldur's Gate 3. Fair warning, if you've listened from the beginning of my podcast 191 episodes ago now, I have talked about some of these tips previously. But that being said, I think good advice is evergreen and all of us, including me, need to re-hear these things from time to time. My goal at the time of this writing is to have

no spoilers in this episode at all. That may blunt some of the points that I'm trying to make, but believe me when I say the best way to experience Baldur's Gate 3 is however you want to play it. And I want to be mindful of those who do not want spoilers going in because that's always been my methodology, avoiding spoilers and walkthroughs during my first playthrough. And believe me, I'm doing that and having an absolute ball with the game. Without further ado, here are eight pieces of advice we can learn about DMing from Baldur's Gate 3. Tip number one. Have multiple solutions in mind to solve a problem and advance the story.

Or, another way to say it, if the players present a possible solution and it's feasible, then it's viable and accepted. In the game, the overwhelming majority of conflicts between groups can be resolved in multiple ways. the overwhelming majority of conflicts between groups can be resolved in multiple ways. Any or all of combat, diplomacy, trade, bribe, problem-solve, seduction, and other methods can be used to keep Group A from attacking Group B. There are exceptions. Some groups are unrepentant asshats who really don't listen to reason, so my fighter introduces them to his halberd up close and personal.

You're trying to kill him and you won't take no for an answer? That's unfortunate. I would have preferred to talk this out, pulls weapon off my back. Bonjour, stab! Sorry, I don't know why I made my halberd French, but it's part of the episode now and I'm going to roll with it. Utilisez-moi encore une fois, s'il vous plaît. And I've just exhausted most of my French I last used in a trip to Europe in 2010 or so for an IT conference. Most of the rest I remember would be like Où est la plage nude et je suis un poisson excité. I bet there are like three people listening who just laughed at that joke. That joke was for you, my three friends. Besides multiple solutions for conflicts, there are multiple solutions for things like traps. You can disarm them or render them ineffective with creative use of the environment,

placing boxes in the right spot, triggering traps by shooting them with weapons, or even tricking enemies to set the traps off for you. There are also multiple solutions for exploration, with perception and stealth and deception and other skills potentially being used at times to keep the party alive. Second tip we can all learn from Baldur's Gate is to use a mix of PC choices, character abilities, and the die rolls to adjudicate outcome. In the game, you'll have different dialogue and action choices depending on your character class, skills you're trained in, and the background your character has. For example, my first character is a fighter, and in the game I've had special choices when it comes to setting up battles, inspiring people, and even a bonus to a check regarding an in-game board game based on medieval warfare. Think chess, but it looked a little different.

As DMs, we should be encouraging our players to be creative when it comes to getting bonuses on checks based on skills, abilities, backgrounds, and other aspects of their character. Honestly, if they say that they want to use their barkeeping background to help identify a stain on the floor, that's not out of the realm of possibility. They've probably seen blood, spit, goodness knows what else, spilled where they were working. Give them a small bonus to the role and it'll make them feel like their history matters, that their character backstory matters, and they can use that in situations at hand. Should the dice help determine the outcome unless it's painfully obvious? Absolutely, that's what the game is built on. But don't be stingy with the bonuses if the player suggests it and they halfway make sense. Third tip from Baldur's Gate would be to adjust your world based on character actions.

When players see the world change for the better or worse, depending on the choices their characters make, it makes your game better. For example, suppose the character saved the life of a young druid who was cornered by an aberration, but that aberration was much stronger than that druid was, so they saved their life. The young druid is thankful and promises to pay them back. And maybe down the road, when the characters need it, they may meet the head of the, I don't know, druid circle who can assist the characters with information, bonuses, blessings, or even items to assist them on their quest because of the help they provided a member of the circle earlier.

I'm thinking of specific examples in the game, but to keep the spoiler free, I'm going to try to keep it generic. Suppose the characters free someone from captivity. going to try to keep it generic. Suppose the characters free someone from captivity. That someone could help negotiations between conflicting groups or stick up for the PCs when they run afoul of that captive's group later on in your adventure. Choices that the PCs make for good or ill should have reverberating effects down the line. They're the ripples that affect your campaign. Okay, I need to speed up. Fourth tip, never, and I mean never, let the rules get in the way of fun. And if they do, change them or ignore them. The rules are there as guidelines to help keep the game moving and assist the DM in adjudicating issues. Okay, before you at me, I am as lawful neutral as they come. My job

involves enforcing rules, so I understand the importance of having those rules and following them when they make sense. Baldur's Gate, though, plays a little fast and loose with some of the 5e rules. For example, in the game, a natural 20 is always a success on a skill check, and a natural 1 is always a failure. That's not rules as written for 5e. Effectively, it treats skill checks like saving throws. I did a double take the first time it happened, but after that, it really didn't bother me in the least. It's not rules as written, but it didn't affect my level of fun at all. Another example, in the game, scrolls are universal. You don't have to have the spell on your spell list to use a scroll. My fighter once used a

scroll of Healing Word to bring up an ally at range. That is a spell that only bards, clerics, and druids should be able to use rules as written. But there was my fighter using an action to cast a spell instead of a bonking a monster on the head. It basically turned scrolls into, for lack of a better term and using an archaic phrase, spell in a can or on a paper. Instant spell, just add water. No, literacy. Fork it. They're universally able to be used. Other changes from rules as written. Drinking a potion is a bonus action instead of an action. You can also throw potions at allies who are down and impart their effects on them. Yeah, it's kind of funny to be on a roof and chuck potions of greater healing at allies to

help keep them in the fight when you're out of healing spells. Ray of Frost freezes liquid on a surface. Acid Splash leaves a small pool of acid behind and other changes that aren't technically in the rules. Rather than spend 30 minutes at the table arguing whether a person covered in salt water should get extra damage from lightning spells, if you want to rule it that way, DM, rule it and move on. And if you're a player and the DM rules it that way, congratulations! It works both ways and you now have a new way to damage your enemies. Time to start buying water skins and chucking them at things before the sorcerer hits them with lightning bolt. Fifth tip, encourage creative solutions to in-game problems. As DMs,

I encourage you to let your PCs get creative when they come up with a solution. You get no bonus points for treating your characters like garbage and forcing them down the only path that leads to your devious trap. If they come up with a plausible way to disarm a hazard or route around an encounter or some way for them to gain advantage leading up to it, at least give it a chance to succeed. If your party rogue figures out a way to cut the string of the burning hands trap, rendering it ineffective, they feel like big damn heroes, and that's what we're going for. Maybe they find a trap that will release poison gas into the room, and they suggest something like,

there's a metal cylinder over there. I want to puncture it with an explosive arrow, or I want to throw this sack full of grain on top of the pressure plate, or run it some other way to cut the Gordian knot of your devious trap. Give them a roll or two to make that happen and congratulate them on their ingenuity. Shooting the poison gas cylinder? Sounds like an attack roll. Throwing a heavy grain bag? Yeah, athletics check. Whatever makes sense in the moment. Don't just say, you can't do that because it's not technically a thievery check to disable it. Give it a shot. If a thievery check is 15 for the trap, maybe if they hit an AC 18 or 17, it does the exact same thing. Tip number six. By the way, the flip from phrasing it fifth tip to tip number six is just the type of thing that will really piss off my accomplished author of a wife,

and I'm going to snicker about it later. Tip F. Your environment should be varied and interesting. So let's start with varied. In the adventure I've seen so far, we fight in forests, ruined towns, old castles, underground, in caves, each with their own aesthetic and environmental feel, for lack of a better word. The ruined town areas have balconies and items that you can move around and stack that would make sense for a ruined town. Barrels, crates, old furniture, that type of thing. While underground has rocky outcroppings, stalagmites, and old castles have some stone furniture and chests.

They have other items that just make sense for the area. I know it's more work for us DMs, but one lesson I've taken from the game is to make sure I vary up my descriptions more for different areas. It makes the areas feel different, even if under the hood they're just reskins of the same type of item and you can do the same type of things with them. Which brings me to the second part of the tip, making environments interesting. I want to focus on encounters because that's the easiest way to demonstrate this. I've said before, you shouldn't be running combat on a flat plane. Combat is better when you add a variety to the battlefield.

Traps, difficult terrain, different heights that players can move their characters to. It makes battles interesting for the party. Make the environment part of the battle in some way. For example, in Baldur's Gate 3, nearly every combat I've had so far has afforded the opportunity to get your ranged martial and spellcasters to higher ground. That makes them more effective since it's easier for them to cast at distant creatures and it makes creatures expend more movement to get to them. You should do the same thing for combats in your game. Add a third dimension, whether that's on top of furniture, huge mushrooms, rocky outcroppings, whatever makes

sense for where the battle's taking place. Learn the rules for your game system when you're attacking from range from an elevated position. For example, higher ground can negate cover bonuses in Pathfinder 2e, and in 5e it's up to the DM what bonuses are given for high ground. If you allow bonuses in that regard, let your PCs use them if it makes sense, but make sure your smarter enemies do as well. Tip number seven, be reasonable with regard to DCs. One thing that is programmed very well in Baldur's Gate 3 are the DC calculations in the game. It seems like a lot of thought went into most of the DCs based on the level of the characters and the actions they are attempting.

I was at my friendly local game store a couple weeks ago and I was talking to a friend of mine who worked there. He had a friend that was DMing a game. I didn't know this person, but it was arranged for me to just sit in and listen. I'm a huge believer that we all can learn from one another, so I wanted to listen to another DM for a bit and glean some knowledge from him. He was playing 5e and I was enjoying his varied voices and off-the-cuff style, when a player said they wanted to use an insight check on a particular NPC, and the DM said, okay, make me a roll, it's DC 35. I had been paying attention, and the highest skill modifier that I remembered was like a plus 10. Even with a guidance spell that gets the maximum variable bonus,

the character would still fail with a natural 20. During the long break, I briefly spoke to the DM about that DC, and he said it was because the NPC they were talking to was a master of deception. I nodded, thanked him for the explanation, and didn't say anything. Not my game. He can run it how he wants. But DC 35? Let's take a look at the 5e player's handbook, page 174.

There's a handy-dandy little DC chart with sample DCs as reference. It gives DCs for very easy tasks like tying your shoes, all the way up to nearly impossible tasks like impressing a deity with your YYZ drum solo. Shout out to the four people who know what the hell I'm talking about there. Now, this chart could be an episode all its own, and might be sometime in the future, but let's save that conversation for a later date. For now, let's focus on DC35. That number is not on the chart anywhere. Something that is, quote, nearly impossible, end quote, is a DC30. DC35 just seems ludicrous. I decided to try to build a sleight of hand focused rogue. At level 13, I had a 20 dex, expertise, gloves of thievery, and I had my modifier up to a plus 20. Even with

all of that, I'd still have about a 70% chance of failure. I think numbers like were being thrown around are just insane. That's why my fellow DMs out there, I want you to take a look at the DCs that are used in tables and consider maybe dropping them a little bit. You could counter that argument with that DC table as a guideline and I agree. I'd tell you to run your table how you want to. However, I'd also ask you what the point of DCs are. They are there to give your PCs an understanding of the difficulty when they fail and a sense of accomplishment when they succeed. Duncan over at HipstersAndDragons.com had a great write-up discussing the DC chart,

and I'll link to it in my resources of the episode. He has a different idea for the DC table that I would encourage you to read, but here's my take on the topic. I think we should consider, as GMs, reducing the DC of a I would encourage you to read, but here's my take on the topic. I think we should consider, as GMs, reducing the DC of a lot of our skill checks that we ask the PCs to make. And I'd argue Baldur's Gate does just that. A lot of the pre-written adventures that I've read tend to use the medium DC of 15 for a ton of different checks. Even then, the chance of failure is pretty high. The characters played by the players around your table

are supposed to be better than the average bear. They're the big damn heroes who are going to slay Strahd, survive Avernus, rescue the Queen's Prize Chihuahua who was kidnapped, or whatever. Throughout Baldur's Gate, when it's a non-boss encounter, just trying to follow tracks or make perception checks or whatever, the most common DC I've seen is 10, not 15. The game is purposely designed to make it more likely that you'll succeed, especially when you're controlling the right character or follower. The game doesn't make it a gimme, but by the same token, it doesn't make a DC 30 freaking 5.

The game doesn't make it a gimme, but by the same token, it doesn't make a DC 30 freaking 5. There's a challenge to the role, and of course a concept known as karmic dice that I'm not going to get into that was programmed in, that keeps the game moving while still feeling like heroes. Boss fights? Yeah, absolutely. I've been in one of the boss fights, and there's a chance we could have talked ourselves out of it, but it required making two DC 18 checks in a row to do it. None of my characters could do that, so we fought the boss. In our games behind the screen, we have the final say on bonuses, advantage, and yes, DCs. Now I'm about to tell you something I hope my players never learn. That's probably not practical because I think at least three of them listen to this podcast. But DMs, lean in here a little closer. Did you know that you can adjust the DCs behind

the screen and not tell the players? I know, right? You can play with those to your heart's content until the players exactly know what DC they have to roll, then it's set in stone. Here's what I want you to do before your next session. Assuming you know the characters your players are bringing, you'll likely know who's the most likely to attempt diplomacy, intimidation, stealth, other skills in your game system. Write those skill modifiers down behind your screen, and here's a number I want you to keep in mind. 10. Add 10 to that skill modifier, and if you do, that character has about a 50% chance of success for that DC. A 50-50 shot should be fine, but I tend to use that for my

slightly difficult skill checks and back it off by 2 or 3 for more routine checks and rolls, and maybe even back it off by more than that for easy checks and rolls. The player wants their character to sweet-talk the bartender for information, and they have a plus-four modifier to their persuasion check. If the bartender's gruff and doesn't like the PC, that's probably a DC-14. But if they're neutral to the PC, I'd probably go for like a DC-12. And if the bartender's a little hornball and wants to impress that PC because they're interested in getting closer to them, or if the PC pays them for information up front, that DC may drop to 10 or maybe even 9.

On the other hand, if the PCs are trying to get a better deal and the bartender is really a contract devil in disguise, yeah, DC 18, 20, something like that, maybe higher. That's probably my biggest takeaway from Baldur's Gate is to look at the DCs that I use, and maybe think about making them easier. Pathfinder 2 EGMs, you're not exempt from this advice either. Page 503 in the core rulebook, there's a table of level-based DCs. Generally, these level-based DCs give players about a 50-55% chance of success. chance of success. Consider making some of those skill encounters easier, dropping the DCs that the PCs need to hit to allow them to succeed maybe just a touch more often. Eighth and final piece of advice, be accommodating with the type of characters the PC want to run, but incorporate their choices

into your game world. In Baldur's Gate 3, you can play as a variety of races, even though some of those races would have a greater difficulty interacting in the surface world of Faerun. In some adventures, for example, drow are despised, dragonborn are shunned, humans are rare and stand out in certain areas of the world. The game doesn't prevent you from selecting those races or backgrounds. It rolls your choice into the game itself and shows reaction to these choices in subtle ways. If your player wants to run a race or a background or a class that would make them stand out or might not fit the world, talk to the player about it, but only

say no if it absolutely does not make sense or would not be possible. Difficult does not mean no. If the character would have a difficult time in a particular adventure, then tell the player that, and if they still want to run that character, so be it. Let me give you an example. If I were running a post-Cataclysm game in the Dragonlance world of Kryn, clerics are absent from the world, completely. If a player told me they wanted to be a cleric of Mishakal or Paladine, my answer is probably going to be no. There are no clerics, and anyone who could display any sort of healing and blessing powers, anything divine would be swarmed under instantly by requests for help.

However, if the player wants to play a Dragonborn on Kryn, I'm not automatically saying no. I will let them know that a percentage of the dwarves and humans and elves could be prejudiced against Dragonborn and may start out one step worse on the attitude chart. The character may have to work a little bit harder to prove themselves in the NPC's eyes. By the way, DMs, I'm not going to subject the Dragonborn PC to straight-up racism. No one's going to form a mob to try to kill them. They may, however, see people move away slightly when they sit down in a tavern, or they may pay slightly higher prices when shopping. That kind of thing. Give the player a heads up. If they still want to play that character,

give the entire table a heads up, and if everybody's okay with it, let's go. I'm playing a flesh warp in Pathfinder 2e that would be shunned, so I keep my face covered with a mask and wear long sleeves and gloves. I tell NPCs who ask about it that I'm horribly disfigured and sparing them the discomfort of what I actually look like. It's technically true, so I'm not lying. I knew about these problems going in, and if my real appearance was discovered, I may have to resort to magic or other means to go back into hiding. I like this for my character, discussed it with my GM ahead of time. It's an

additional challenge over a traditional character. My GM has been very accommodating when it comes to this different character. Even games like Baldur's Gate 3 that doesn't have a traditional DM has a lot to teach us about being DMs and GMs. Have multiple solutions in mind. Use PC choices and die rolls to adjudicate outcomes. Adjust your world based on those character choices and outcomes. Encourage creative solutions to problems. Fun is more important than story, which is more important than the rules.

Make environments varied and interesting. Set reasonable DCs, and be accommodating of the characters the players want to play, and I'll bet you and your players would have fun doing it. Supersized episode this week, because there was a lot to get in. Do you have a topic idea? Send it to me at feedback at taking20podcast.com or send it to me via direct message on social media.

Tune in next week when... Oh, baby, I'm looking forward to this one. We're going to have a Monster Series episode, this time focusing on doppelgangers. But before I go, I want to thank this week's sponsor, Computer Mice. Did you know that Computer Mice rarely use cuss words? They really do know how to control a cursor. rarely use cuss words, they really do know how to control a cursor. This has been episode 191, a spoiler-free set of DM lessons from Baldur's Gate. My name is Jeremy Shelley, and I hope that your next game is your best game. The Taking 20 Podcast is a Publishing Cube Media Production. Copyright 2023. References to game system content are copyrighted by their respective publishers.