Taking 20 Podcast - Ep 244 - Guard the Fun

Episode Date: December 28, 2024

There’s a lot to playing and DMing a tabletop RPG.  There are quite a few rules, a story the DM is trying to create for the players, encounters to design, sessions to plan, characters to role play and so much to do to ensure the game can happen.  However, don’t lose sight that the game is supposed to be, first and foremost, fun.   #pf2e #Pathfinder #gmtips #dmtips #dnd #rpg #fun Resources: J.R. Zambrano - One Passage in the New DMG… - https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2024/11/dd-one-passage-in-the-new-dmg-writes-down-a-powerful-unwritten-rule.html What is the peasant railgun? - https://knightsdigest.com/what-exactly-is-the-peasant-railgun-in-dd-5e/

This week on the Taking20 Podcast. Some of these may be soft limits at your table, which means they can cause player anxiety, fear, or discomfort. Or these could be hard limits that should not be mentioned or described at all. Thank you for listening to the Taking20 Podcast, episode 244. A piece of advice from the new D&D Dungeon Master's Guide that can be summed up as guard the fun. I want to thank this week's sponsor, Bridges. Did you know most Bridges can speak? The problem is they only speak span-ish. Hey, we have a website, www.taking20podcast.com.

Come on by, check out some old episodes, leave some comments, make me your primary heir of your vast fortune, whatever tickles your fancy. There are a lot of basic tenets when it comes to tabletop gaming. Make a character that can work with a group, give the game an appropriate priority so you can be there as often as you can, buy pretty dice, and then buy more pretty dice, and when you think you have enough dice, go shopping for more dice, and then start looking at more, ooh, are these made from mammoth bones?

Ooh. But one of the most important rules when it comes to gaming is that everyone should have fun. How can you, as a DM or a player, help that happen? Well, I'm glad you asked. I recently purchased and was able to access the 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide on D&D Beyond and I was giving it a read before the holidays to calm my nerves and relax in front of the fake fire we put on the TV like our ancestors used to do. As I poured over the new version of the book there was one section that really grabbed

my attention entitled Ensuring Fun for All. Now first off, back to basics, that should be the mentality of all DMs, all GMs, all players, anyone who adopts this hobby no matter how in depth or casually. The game should be fun, first and foremost, and I admit that I have beaten that horse so long that it's in danger of coming back to life and kicking my ass. As to why this section grabbed my attention, it's because, to my knowledge, none of the previous versions of D&D had a section covering the topic of fun in such an in-depth level. I've been playing tabletop RPGs since the Red Box days, and most of the books for the Dungeon Masters talk about rules

since the Red Box days, and most of the books for the Dungeon Masters talk about rules interpretations, and encounter design, and treasure tables, and maybe some sample monsters thrown in here and there. In later versions of D&D, they included important sections on social interaction, and maybe a little on table etiquette that mentioned fun, but it wasn't covered nearly as thoroughly as it is in this version, and I want to give Wizards of the Coast their flowers for including it in that depth. In this section of the book there were the following major topics when it comes to ensuring fun for all. Setting expectations. Making sure the GM and the players are all on the same page when it comes to the contents

and theme of the game. I talked at length about this in episodes 47 and 48, and to sum up, there's no right or wrong way to play D&D or Pathfinder or Blades in the Dark or any other tabletop RPG. Yeah, you heard me. During Session 0, and you should always have a Session 0, the DMs should talk about the type of game they want to run, and the players should talk about the type of game they want to run, and the player should talk about the type of game they want to play. This meeting is an opportunity to set the expectations around the table, ensuring that all players and the DM are on the same page when it comes to the campaign. That way, you don't disappoint the player who's expecting a gritty, grimdark type campaign when you want to make a lot of fart jokes and have a lot of thinly disguised

anachronistic 1990s references in your game, like the group who's been nicknamed the Party of Five. They have to rescue the musical Child of Destiny with the help of the Tu Wang Clan. I'm sorry everyone, sometimes he gets like this. Oh yeah, okay, I tried to mix it up and not be obvious and Wu Tang came out as two Wang My bad about that with the help of the reservoir blink dogs. There we go. I'm back on track the Prince of air Bell has made this request of the party of five and something something over the creek owned by the Dawson clan into the Park of the South

Someone wanting a call of Cthulhu-esque type game probably wouldn't be happy with that type of venture. So get everyone on the same page in session zero. Another topic it talked about was setting and respecting hard and soft limits. This ensures that no one introduces aspects of the game that will make other players or the DM uncomfortable. I mean, everyone has things like that.

They have triggers. They have topics that make them feel uneasy. Things like character on character sex, character on NPC sex, and other in-game activities like sexual assault, harm to minors, slavery, body horror, that type of thing. Some of these may be soft limits at your table, which means they can cause player anxiety, fear, or discomfort, or these could be hard limits that should not be mentioned or described at all. One of my current players has a strong phobia of insects, scorpions, spiders, all those things, which makes that a hard limit at my table. Every encounter with insect

swarms or giant spiders or something similar is converted to another creature type. The insect swarm became a parasitic cloud of vapor that had similar stats but didn't contain the creatures that would cause my player discomfort. Similarly, a player in another game was uncomfortable with slavery. It was a part of the world and he acknowledged that, but we treated the subject very carefully as a soft limit. Interestingly, by the way, that group would go on to join the Bellflower Network, who works to free halfling slaves from the Devil Worshipping Nation of Cheliacs. I wound up focusing on how the party's actions were

having a positive effect on the halfling nations, cultures, and people. There was plenty of good adventures to design since a Devil Worshipping nation makes for an easy and convenient pool of big baddies for the PCs to foil. Another section discussed in the new Dungeon Master's Guide is a section on intra-party conflict, where there is a conflict between characters in a party. Generally, especially in role-play-like campaigns, the causes for character-character conflict are rooted in the players themselves. Sometimes conflict is caused Generally, especially in roleplay-like campaigns, the causes for character-character conflict are rooted in the players themselves.

Sometimes conflict is caused by a disruptive player, and I started to include my thoughts on that, but I have a lot to say about this topic and plus I got a user suggestion this week so that will be covered in the next episode. However, sometimes it's not just a disruptive player that causes a problem, sometimes the character conflict is caused by conflicts between the players. Players can sometimes get crossways with one another for one of a thousand reasons. Maybe they have clashing personalities, maybe both want to be in charge, maybe one slept with the other's boyfriend, whatever the reason. Player A and player B just plain do not like each other and it flares up during gaming.

GMs, my beloved GMs out there. This is one of the hardest problems to deal with and it requires willpower and being a little bit forceful when you talk to your players about it. If two players are causing a conflict at the table you need to talk to each of them one-on-one and then bring them together. Player conflict can drive a table apart and cause a game to break up entirely. I've seen it happen more than once. So put the kibosh on uncomfortable arguments and muttered insults quickly. It's not fun, it's not comfortable, and it can even cause one or both players to leave the table. Even so, their arguments, pettiness, shouting, whatever it is can ruin the fun for the other players

and for yourself. If you see these interactions starting to escalate, call a break, speak to the players. It's not fun to listen to players argue between each other. Unless it's the final type of character conflict, good role playing. Characters can have vastly different worldviews that can result in conflict between them while role-playing. The party happens upon a

holy relic in the Giants' treasure trove. The paladin wants to return it to the nearby town's temple because there's a strong presence of that deity in town. The rogue, however, wants to sell it and maybe pocket cash. This is a character conflict and in role-play heavy campaigns there's nothing wrong with discussing it and disagreeing in character as long as tempers don't get heated. I love, love roleplay heavy campaigns and I need to get another one going or find another one because character conflict makes for amazing stories. My character was a fighter, by the way, whose

family was slain by an uncontrolled horde of undead. She had made it her life's mission to eradicate every undead she could find. So in late game, when the vampire asked the party to take care of something, she wanted nothing to do with this creature of the night and voiced her displeasure of being in the same room as this thing as she called it. In the end, my character still worked with the party on the quest, but whoops, that vampire skeleton minion may have just took a tumble out the window. I don't know how that could have happened. They really need to be more careful.

Despite character disagreements, my character still worked with the party to get shit done, which brings me to the next section of the Dungeon Master's guide, Respect for Players. More coming on this later, but in short, the game is meant to be fun for everyone and everyone is meant to work together. Players should respect other players' decisions about their characters, and players should never feel uncomfortable or threatened at the table. This is part of the social contract of being in an RPG together. Everyone's character should generally work together with every other character, even if they disagree on the how and the why.

Players, run your characters as members of the party and make sure your character is willing to work together with the other party members. It's what my character would do is not a get out of jail free card for being a dick at the table. You're robbing your fellow party members because it's what your character would do? Fine. Your character is now an NPC? Make another choice or make another character who wouldn't make that choice. DMs have the responsibility for respecting the players as well. DMs should respect any limits discussed by players and make sure everyone has the opportunity to be

in the spotlight, show off cool abilities, and be the one that helps this ragtag group of murder hobos maybe a little strong. How about manslaughter vagabonds? DMs, you should make sure everybody at the table gets to be the big damn hero every now and then. If the party consists of a wizard, a fighter, a rogue, and a cleric, then make sure there are times when knowledge and or skills with the arcane, use of a sword, someone who can sneaky sneak, and someone who can pray pray all have a chance to solve problems and be heroes now and then. Case in point, to the credit of Tom Robinson, one of my DMs, I'm playing an awakened animal

who used to be a bear but gained sentience. I'll just ask you to trust me that that happened and I'm not going to give his full backstory, we do not have the time. But my bear has a class of a barbarian. I know, I know, actually what I couldn't think of a name for him at first, I named him Barbarian, but I maybe should have stuck with that. Funnily enough, I named him Bjorn, which I did not know when I named him that, is actually bear in another language.

Anyway, as a Barbarian most of his spotlight time was spent tearing the throat out of anything that wants to harm his friends. However, I don't know if Tom changed the adventure for me or if it was written this way, but part of our adventure involved taking care of a werebear, which allowed my character to do more than just rip and tear. It gave me an opportunity to role play, to do more with that character, and it helped me be the hero, not just in a teeth and claws way. Now, that being said, respect goes both ways. Just as DMs should respect their players, players should respect the DM and the game the DM is putting together. Any adventure depends on buy-in by the players. We all know we're not actually a young ragtag group of plucky adventurers traveling through the plains of

Morrocity to find a group of friends who got lost and no one told you life was going to be this way. Yeah, you thought the 90s references were over. Think again. Yeah, you thought the 90s references were over. Think again. Players, as I mentioned earlier, buy into the campaign your DM is running, be present at the table, and support your fellow party members' choices. And make sure you respect the social boundaries of the table. I don't know if I've said it before, and it should be common knowledge, but respect the rules of the game and of the table. Don't try to make the game all about you and your character and don't lie about die rolls or cheat. Don't read ahead in the

adventure to try to get knowledge that your character wouldn't or shouldn't have. Don't sit at the table or between sessions looking up monsters to try to gain an advantage for the combats later on. Don't mix up player and character knowledge. Allow others to have their time to shine and And in short, this is a long way of saying, don't be an antisocial asshole and help your friends have fun. I mentioned it earlier, but there's an unspoken social contract with regard to tabletop gaming. The DM provides the world and the people in it.

They run the game and set expectations and boundaries that hopefully meet player expectations and respect the boundaries that they have. In short, the game should be fun for everyone, not just you. And that's part of what I mean by guard the fun. PC should cooperate with each other and everyone should cooperate with the GM

to create a fun, engaging, compelling, and thrilling story for everyone, not just you. So players, support the fun by playing the game in a way that supports everyone. Don't look for ways to exploit rules in ways that were clearly not intended. What do I mean by that? The classic example is the peasant rail gun.

Now, if you've never heard of this, the peasant rail gun is this basic idea. Imagine you had 2,280 low-level peasants in a straight line, have them all ready in action to take what's handed to them from behind and hand it to the person in front of them. When it was first proposed as a thought experiment, I think on 1D4chan a long time ago, this was the time of D&D 3.5 ready actions that took no time to execute because they were intended for action interrupts, taking actions when a certain set of circumstances happen, that kind of thing.

So someone hands a spear to the person back of the line and the spear effectively is instantly thrown by the person in the front of the line, 2280 people ahead, and so according to the original post that means the spear is going a little over a thousand miles an hour post that means the Spear is going a little over a thousand miles an hour doing 300 d6 damage to a target if it hits. It's bullshit by the way for so many reasons it abuses so many rules like can't use readied actions that way used falling damage in a way and frankly it also abuses common sense. The rules are not intended to describe the physics of the world. The rules create a framework where a game can be played and interpreted consistently. If a PC falls for 50,000 feet up, don't spend minutes arguing about the terminal falling velocity of an armored dwarf or

how long it would take them to hit the ground. They take max falling damage according to game rules and moving on. The rules are important, but and while fun is more important than rules the rules do depend on good faith interpretation of them. Trying to manipulate rules to take advantage of friendly DMs can ruin the fun for the DM and the other players. Don't look for a way to exploit the rules in ways they obviously aren't intended like the peasant railgun. By the way I'm going to include a link in the resources if you want to read an article about it

that discussed the original post. Don't try to stick a cure potion in each tooth in your mouth or use summon nature's ally to get a flying horde of pixies to carry everyone thereby giving everyone infinite fly or a third level creation bard creating 60 gold piece objects over and over and over again, selling them in town and then leaving before they disappear, effectively giving them infinite money.

While we're on the topic of money by the way, as a reminder, their game really isn't an economy either. The money rules were not intended to model reality, there are edge cases like that creation bard where the PCs could theoretically generate enough wealth to fill an entire plane of existence. Come on man, no. GM needs to shut that down quickly because the game isn't fun if the PCs can just buy godhood for example. Finally, my most important rule of thumb and when I am asked for that one piece of advice for new DMs, this is what I tell them. Fun is more important than the story which is more important than the story,

which is more important than the rules. But Jeremy, you said the rules are important. I did. The rules are important. But to quote Pirates of the Caribbean, they're more guidelines than actual rules. Should the DM disregard the rules entirely? No, it becomes chaos. However, should the DM wield the rules like a hammer and crush the fun? Also, no, absolutely not. I once talked to a DM years ago who was running a D&D, I want to say it was version 3.0 game. It was the early 2000s, a simpler time, and there wasn't the prevalence of let's plays and how-to videos, just a bunch of people arguing on in-world forums. No one at the table had ever run or even played the game before, and he stepped up to run

the table. Good for him. He mentioned how embarrassed he was when he discovered he screwed up how attacks worked and was giving opponents and PCs reflex saves to have damage on all attacks. I know, I don't know where he got that either. But I asked him one basic question. Did everyone have fun? He said he thought they did and they were planning their next session.

My answer then, okay, so you messed up. It doesn't matter. I also suggested that he talk to the table, admit that he messed up how attacks work, and try to run them rules as written, but that fun was the most important part of playing tabletop RPGs. If the DM and players enjoyed the session, you flubbed up every single rule in... It's still a good session. Period. Full stop. Hell, if that DM told me they liked the saving throw for half damage on attacks

and wanted to run the entire game that way, then you do you, my friend. No judgment here. Of course, keep in mind, that might make rogues a little too powerful and combats are going to take a lot longer, but I'm not going to yuck their yum. Fun is more important than the rules of the game. Similarly, if you have this great campaign planned where the PCs are going to save the nation of Crobatia from the invasion of the hill giants, but the party is having a blast going on adventures with the centaur refugees who were booted from the Feywild, then don't worry about saving the region from the hill giants. Let them adventure with the centaurs and do what you can to change your adventure to suit the game

the players want to play. Or, what I do, incorporate what they're enjoying into the campaign that you want to run. Fun is also more important than story. That being said, part of supporting the DM's fun is buying into the adventure that they're running. If your DM says, hey, I know you guys are all hanging out in the Everdell forest with the centaurs and loving doing it, but this adventure that I have prepped and I'm ready to run is more about saving a nation. That's what I prepared.

Can the party do things more related to that, at least occasionally? If the DM says that, then meet them halfway. Go on the adventure they prepared. Meanwhile, my beloved GMs, you should meet them halfway as well. You should try to work to incorporate the centaurs into the adventure that you're running. In the interest of full disclosure, as I'm researching every episode, I always look at what other people have written about this week's topic. Sure enough, I found an article on thebelloflosssouls.net by J.R. Zembrano, which covered a large portion of this same topic. I'm going to provide a link in the resources, and really, you should go check that out as well.

As I said, the game is supposed to be fun for everyone at the table. Players and DMs should play and run the game in a way that supports everyone, respects limits, doesn't involve cheating, and doesn't try to exploit the game rules in a way that they're obviously not intended. By being respectful and buying into the game, I'd be willing to bet that you and your fellow players would have fun doing it. Normally here's where I'd ask you to do something I have nothing to ask of you this week other than my wish that 2025 is a much better year for you and yours than 2024 was. I hope all of you have a very happy new year and I'll be back in January with another episode. The next one by the way is a listener

requested topic dealing with unruly players. But before I go I want to thank this week's sponsor, Bridges. Did you know that most Bridges have healthy self-esteem? After all, they are supported by their peers. This has been episode 244, giving you some tips for keeping the game fun. My name is Jeremy Shelley, and I hope that your next game is your best game.

The Taking 20 podcast is a publishing cube media production, copyright 2024. References to game system content or copyright your best game.