Taking 20 Podcast - Ep 245 - Unruly Players

Episode Date: January 12, 2025

No one enjoys having a disruptive player at your table but what can you do with players like that?  This listener-suggested episode has some ideas on how to deal with these unruly players.

This week on The Taking20 Podcast. At its heart, role-playing games are inherently social activities that require human beings to interact with each other. Anytime human beings interact, there's always a chance for a rough patch, a conflict, a disagreement, or what have you. Thank you for listening to the Taking 20 Podcast, Episode 245, a listener-suggested episode about dealing with unruly players. I want to thank this week's sponsor, Shopping Carts. Did you know that most shopping carts are like Wyatt Earp?

They eventually make their way to an okay corral. Oh, okay, yep, I definitely deserved sorry about that one. Happy New Year! This is the first episode of 2025 and I am ready for something new. And what do we get? Snowstorms and wildfires and everything else. Now before I move on, I want to extend my thoughts and well wishes and prayers to all of those who have been impacted by those wildfires and snowstorms I mentioned. My heart goes out to those who have lost loved ones, homes, or livelihoods. To those who are listening, thank you for tuning in.

Hopefully, this is a brief respite from what you're dealing with. Stay strong and know that there are people who care and are wishing you the best during your difficult time. Let me start this episode by saying I owe you all an apology. I listened back to my last episode of 2024 and I spoke way too fast. I was up against a deadline and evidently I was caffeinated out my cloaca and I'm sorry the episode was a little disjointed and crazy and hectic. I will try to do better this time. Speaking of which, I received a message via a YouTube comment from a user who wishes to remain anonymous who wanted some tips for dealing with unruly players. I love this topic, but there's one problem. There are a lot of flavors of unruly players. I am going to take

my strongest cut at this, so to the listener who suggested the topic, if I missed your intention, if I'm off track, please message me back to let me know how I can improve my response to your suggested topic. If you go digging for stories about problem players, you're going to find way more than you could possibly read. If you run games long enough, all of us will have a difficult player or two at the table. One time at a convention, for example, I had a player get upset that I wouldn't allow them to use a spell in a way that was

kind of contrary to the way it was written. They wanted a spell to work without a saving throw by the victim. I told them that, hey, I can appreciate that their home DM allows them to use this spell this way, but I can't do that because that doesn't feel like it's within the rules. He told me I was a bad DM scooped up his stuff and left the table. Throughout my history he's not the only person that's stormed off. I've been yelled at, called everything short of a

gelatinous cube by players before. These things happen and if you ever vary who you DM for, in other words, if you ever allow new players at your game or run games at conventions or your local game store, you're likely going to have this happen too. That being said, there are ways to handle unruly players, so stay tuned for some tips. There are unruly players, and there are unruly players. If you ever have the worst of the worst happen to you, in other words someone at your table who creates a

scene, threatens you, threatens other players, starts screaming at others, you must take control of the situation no matter how much you dislike doing so. The safety and fun of the other players around your table is paramount and if the disruptive player doesn't respond to being talked to like a rational adult, then the fastest way to protect everyone else around the table is to remove them either temporarily or permanently. Not murder, more on that in a moment.

The first classification of unruly players I'm gonna call it takes two to tango. These would be the players who become unruly at each other or because of each other. This can be between two players, or a player in the DM. I'm generally a pretty laid back GM. I want to craft a story that makes my player characters feel like big damn heroes and will generally err on the side of allowing those characters to do cool shit. You want to slide across a table, fire your hand crossbow and take cover on the other side? Okay, that doesn't fit cleanly into the action economy of this

game, but fuck it, it sounds cool. Make the attack at a minus two. Now if the NPCs want to do that against the party and one of the party members starts to gripe about it, I'll just have to say, hey, remember, hey, you could do it, so the baddies can do it too. Similarly, if there's a rules debate, I'll make a ruling and promise the players to look it up during the break or between sessions. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. My bad. We'll run it differently the next time, and if my ruling was too harsh on the PCs, then

I may even give them a makeup call down the road. For those of you who have never played or refereed or watched a sport, a makeup call is a ruling that favors one team or one person, often perceived as an attempt to compensate for a previous incorrect call that disadvantaged that same team. In other words, I made a ruling that went against the party. I might make a rule another ruling later on that gives them a little bit of an advantage or a bonus or I'll give them a hero point for use on a future role something like that. I make it very clear that I'm a human being I make my share of mistakes but I will try to make it right in the long term. When I accept a new player at my table I also make it

very clear that outbursts, name-calling, making other players feel uncomfortable and screams of that's unfair when a ruling goes against them are beyond the pale and aren't allowed at the table. It is a hard limit that I very clearly communicate to my players. At its heart role-playing games are inherently social activities that require human beings to interact with each other. Anytime human beings interact there's always a chance for a rough patch of conflict, a disagreement, or what have you. I've been running games a long time and I've had my share of disagreements at the table.

Rarely have they become what the original requester called unruly, or I would say difficult or truly problematic. The vast majority of conflicts when they surface at the table can be resolved with a polite conversation and after a brief break, everyone can return to slaying the bandit king of Olag Danor who's been harassing the town of Fairweather. That being said, unruly players usually only have a few causes for their existence and the solution will vary depending on that root cause. One common root cause for unruly players would be disagreements in game. The player may disagree with another player or GM.

The unruly player may be trying to quarterback other players and tell them how to run their characters. This can lead to disagreements and upset feelings around the table, and no player, let me go on record, no player should be telling another player how to play their character unprompted. The most common variant of this I see is the experienced player trying to help, notice the air quotes around the word help, the new player that run their character. No, don't flank, this is the turn you should hide and next round you should flank or hey newbie your character has the highest charisma so

you should tell us what you're going to say to the gate guard to let us in. Uh-uh, not kosher. You need to talk to that experienced player and guard to let us in. Uh uh. Not kosher. You need to talk to that experienced player and ask them to back off just a bit. They are being the unruly player in this example. Every player has agency or autonomy over what their character does. If the new person asks for help, by Jove, you and the other players should help them, but never, never, never

provide unprompted help because if you haven't been asked, they may not need your help or want it. You are being the unruly player in that example. Another in-game disagreement is when the DM makes a ruling that a player disagrees with. Maybe the player is in another game where the rule is interpreted differently. They don't understand why they can't try this trick with a backpack that their Friday night DM lets them try. DMs, one of the roles you play is rules arbiter. It's impossible to know every rule and there are different interpretations for the same rule. What you will need to do is try to determine ahead of time how you will handle these rules disagreements when they happen at your table.

Players, my beloved players out there. Different DMs have different interpretations of the same rule. Plus, a lot of rule systems have areas that are at the edge of the defined rules and they require the DM to make a call in the moment. Hell, some of the rules explicitly state that the DM to make a call in the moment. Hell, some of the rules explicitly state that the DM decides. If you look at the D&D 5e rules on crafting, it says that the DM has to decide if the PCs can craft magical items, and in the entry for hiding it expressly says the DM decides when the circumstances are appropriate for hiding. I might make a call completely differently than another DM DM and a third DM may rule differently than both of us. Another example, surprise rounds are solely at the

discretion of the DM. In each of these examples and countless others, it's the DM's call. I may rule that the goblins lying in wait get a surprise round when they ambush the party or as another DM may say, no, no they don't, we're all going on initiatives. Some DMs are free with magic items and diminish the crafting side, where others are the exact opposite. You need to know that if you sit down to a different game with a different GM, they may interpret the same rules differently than your previous DM does, and that's OK. Different DMs have different worlds with slight variance on the rules. High magic vs. low magic. Lots of class levels running around the world vs. class levels that are rare and so forth.

If your DM makes a ruling, there is no need at all to make a scene or get upset. If you really really disagree with the GM's ruling, talk to the DM during a break or between sessions, and if it's really really hampering your fun, maybe find a different table. Every table is different. Some pause the action to look up a rule, and some tables like mine we make the ruling in the moment and look up the rule later. I even played at one table where the DM called for a vote on rule interpretations. Weird and easily abusable, but okay, whatever method you want to use, just use it consistently. In-game disagreements, should they escalate to becoming truly unruly, the DM should call

a break for everyone to get food, take a bio break, etc. and then talk with the player or players that seem to be at the center of the problem. Listen, really listen to their side and think about what they're saying. Look up a rule or two if you have to, correct it back at the table when you resume if that's necessary, and keep the game moving. If the disagreement's over a rule, then maybe discuss the rule around the table. However, remember, you are the DM and your rule decision is ultimately the one that matters. In another example of it takes two to tango unruly player situations, sometimes a player gets unruly

because of disagreements with another player outside of the game. As I said earlier, RPGs are a social game and it's nearly impossible to compartmentalize everything that happens out of the game from the things that happen inside of it and vice versa. Sometimes differences in, I don't know, political parties, religious beliefs, or something really important like what football team players root for. This can creep into the game and cause unruly behavior. I'm an Everton fan and one of my players roots for Liverpool. We're good and just agree not to talk soccer the two weeks per year where our teams play each other. She understands my rooting interests and if

she wants to root for the lesser team from Liverpool then who am I to judge? To stem the tide of hate mail from Liverpool fans, they're a fine football club. I'm not from the area so I don't have a true dislike for them. They've enjoyed more success than Everton is late, and I'm sure some of it was done without the favoritism they seem to always get from the refs. I'm kidding, I'm kidding, kidding, I love you all. But sometimes it's just one player who causes the ruckus at the table. And I'm going to be honest, these situations can be very delicate and either be handled with a scalpel or a machete. Not literally, don't go stabbing and cutting players. That's probably not going to end well for anyone involved because you might go to

jail for assault with a deadly weapon, they could die from inflicted wounds, and blood is so hard to get out of carpet. I'm not taking questions about how I know that. What I mean is that there is a delicate solution to unruly players. This involves time, communication, a crap ton of diplomacy, and patience. It may require you to pull the player aside, mid-session even, to have a conversation about their disruptive behavior, and why it's causing a problem during the game. This is my advice for your first action when facing an unruly player is to just talk to them like you're both damn adults. In my experience, 95% of the time that solves the problem. Maybe they thought they were being funny or maybe

they didn't realize their actions were causing a problem. One, maybe two conversations and you're done. The game continues and everybody's having fun. However, if you talk to a player who's causing disruptions and they continue to do so, it may be time to take the machete approach and sever them from your game. Politely but firmly ask them to leave the table. Whether this leave is permanent or temporary

will need to be a judgment call and all players in the DM should have input. Let me explain with an example. Suppose we have a player we'll call Adam. He is constantly disruptive at the table, distracting other players, causing arguments, pushing boundaries, making other players uncomfortable, whatever it is. And let's say it's constantly starting conversations mid-game about other topics where everyone else is trying to play. You talk to Adam. You ask him to stop doing that.

You politely ask him to focus on the game while we're in the game. When he does it again, you may call a break, pull him aside, ask him to focus on the game because that's what everybody wants. Stop doing whatever else he's trying to talk to the players about or distract them with. And now is when I'll give Adam a warning. It's happened twice and if it happens again you might need to leave my table. Be kind, be polite, but be firm. Or as James Mattis and the sniper from Team Fortress 2 said, be polite, be efficient, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. In this case, having a plan in case you do need to ask them to leave the table. I will talk to a player a couple of times in a short time span to ask them to correct

their behavior. I may even give them a third reminder if there's been a long time between say the second and third occurrence, but past that, I'm done. Meaning they're done at my table. I will again politely but firmly ask them to leave. With regard to single player disturbances, I have been talking about DMs acting unilaterally. What if another player, let's call them Bob, comes to you privately about Adam's actions? Now is when I'll probably accelerate my timeline. I'll still have at least one

conversation with Adam privately about their actions. I'm not gonna say, hey Bob said that you were doing whatever. No. DMs, being in that chair is similar in a lot of ways to having management responsibility at a job. You need to be strong and engage the player one on one about their negative actions. In this case, I will directly say that I've noticed that you're making the entire table uncomfortable when you do blank, whatever blank happens to be. I am asking you not to do that anymore. You may think it's fun or funny or part of the game,

whatever is appropriate to say here, but it's disruptive and it needs to stop. Please don't do that anymore. Remember, have this conversation alone with the problem player. Going back to being a DM, being like being a manager, praise in public, correct in private. So with problems with a player, talk to them one on one. Give them multiple opportunities to correct the negative actions, but if they don't,

politely ask them to leave. If you ask someone to leave, the nickel question for you and your table is whether this banishment is temporary or permanent. DMs. I would definitely recommend talking to the table as a whole in this situation. After you've banished them from the table, encourage your other players to talk to you and bring their thoughts about the banishment because you may only know part of the story. You may only have a

partial list of transgressions committed by this player. A long time ago, just after college, so eons ago, there was a game I ran with four players. One of the players got upset, caused a scene, called everyone a list of varied names and epithets, and left the table. A week later he called me to ask if he could come back. I told him I'd have to discuss it with the table. We got together at a local restaurant. After the initial pleasantries and ordering of food and drinks, we started talking about the incident and I asked everyone's opinion before offering mine.

During the conversation, one of the players indicated the exiled player had tried to corner them and get them to agree to a date. She felt very uncomfortable around him and honestly, nothing more needed to be said. I kept the floor open and more people talked and there was a general consensus that this player had made the game less fun for everyone. So no one wanted him to return to the table. So I called that player another evening, had a beer with him, explained that I wasn't going to allow him back to the table. I mentioned that this was a unanimous recommendation, but the decision was mine because I don't want him yelling at the other players.

I'm the one making the call. He got upset, blamed me, blamed the other players, blamed the game, everyone but himself. He stormed off without paying for his beer, by the way. For the cost of a pint of beer, I was able to remove an unruly player from my game. There was probably some deep-seated reason why we didn't mesh with this particular player, and I really can't get into that because I am not qualified to determine the root mental cause of unruly players. They say every time someone latches out or acts out, it's done out of a deep seated

fear. Okay, maybe. Maybe they have something going on in their personal life or maybe they have a newly diagnosed health condition or they have social issues or stressed at the moment. I'm not equipped nor could I give you the cure for every one of these situations, because if so, I'd probably be a professional negotiator and probably a social worker or something like that. What I can give you is a broad-based set of tips and tricks

for dealing with some of these situations, but largely, each one's going to be an individual case that will require a little customization of the solution. If you have an unruly player at your game, the first thing you need to do remain calm. Yelling at them, escalating it probably won't solve the problem. It's only going to exacerbate it. Just step in to protect your fellow players from their vitriol, but in general you should be trying to de-escalate the situation as best you can. Try to lower the temperature in the room and ask the

unruly player to explain the issue, why they're angry or crying, yelling, throwing dice across the room, whatever it happens to be. If they say they need a break, give it to them. If they say they want to talk, try to let them do so safely, away from the other players. Maybe they'll disclose the reason for their outburst and you'll be able to help them. But then again, it may just be that they're upset. If it's a disagreement over rules or ways to play the game, listen to their concerns and make a decision if you want to try to find some common ground. A compromise that might appease everyone. It's not always possible, mind you.

They may want to run the fireball like it was in 3e instead of 5e. Nope, sorry, we're playing 5e and we're not doing fireballs by volume anymore. The way the rules read now is the way we're going to enforce them. However, maybe they're adamant that they should get a saving throw to try to catch the ledge before they fall into a pit. Okay, maybe that's not rules as written for the game system or the adventure or this particular trap, but alright, what could it hurt? After all DMs you set the difficulty class or DC of what they need to roll to make such a check anyway. Make it possible but tough and if there's your compromise, bang! They get a roll, they pass or fail the check, they feel

seen, voila the game moves on. That being said and I can't stress this enough, do not let one player have fun at the expense of others If you're a regular listener, you've heard my rant about the excuse. It's what my character would do Yeah Well pick a different character one who doesn't hurt other players by stealing from them or harming their other characters You're in an adventuring party and need to work together The game is meant to be fun for everyone so if one player is distracting the others, dominating the others, belittling the

others, or diminishing the fun for the other players in any way, they're an unruly player and they need to be dealt with no matter how uncomfortable the conversation will be for you. If you can get the player to calm down and play nicely with others, great, but if not, maybe it's time for them to find a new table. Exercise a little control over these types of players and I'd be willing to bet that you and your players would have fun doing it. Normally here is where I would say we have a coffee and please donate and yada yada yada, but I would rather you take that money and donate it to causes that are helping people deal with the aftermath of the wildfires and this horrible weather events that we've had.

Please donate if you can but obviously don't feel shamed if you can. Tune in next week where I'm going to expound on a bit of wisdom offered by the great DM Brennan Lee Mulligan. But before I go I want to thank this week's sponsor Shopping Carts. Did you know one grocery store has announced that they're going to try using little ponies to help shoppers instead of using buggies like they do now? I guess they tried the cart before the horse. Aw yeah.

This has been episode 245, dealing with unruly players. My name is Jeremy Shelley, and I hope that your next game is your best game. The Taking 20 podcast is copyright 2025 by Jeremy Shelley. The opinions or views expressed by guests are their own, is your best game.