Taking 20 Podcast - Ep 256 - Player Cheating 2 & WOTC Turnover

Episode Date: June 22, 2025

What do you do when a player cheats in your RPG? In this episode, we tackle the tricky subject of player cheating from the DM's perspective, exploring why players cheat and specific types of in-game d...ishonesty. Learn practical strategies for DMs and players to address cheating, foster a fair and fun gaming environment, and ensure everyone at the table has a blast!   #pf2e #Pathfinder #gmtips #dmtips #dnd #rpg #cheating #WOTC #JeremyCrawford #ChrisPerkins Resources: Crawford and Perkins join Darrington Press - https://www.gamesradar.com/tabletop-gaming/legendary-designers-ditch-d-and-d-for-critical-roles-with-critical-role-in-major-coup/

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Starting point is 00:00:00 This week on the Taking20 Podcast. You call for initiative behind the screen without making an obvious roll. After that moment, Bob says, hey, oh, I got a 20 on initiative for a total of 25. What he'd been doing is rolling a D20 over and over again until he got a number he liked and waited for the right moment to use that pre-rolled value. Thank you for listening to the Taking 20 Podcast, Episode 256. Hey, that's 2 to the 8th power, math! Today's topic is what to do when you have a player that cheats, Part 2. This time, focusing on what DMs and maybe players can actually do about it.
Starting point is 00:00:47 I want to thank this week's sponsor, Shovels. I have a friend who is extremely talented with a shovel and she seems to always have the one that we need. She's a real ace of spades. Thank you so much for listening to this little podcast. If you happen to like it, please like, subscribe and follow us on social media. I'll include links in the episode description. Come on by and say hi. Interesting gaming news this week. I previously mentioned that Jeremy Crawford and Chris Perkins were leaving Wizards of the Coast, and they have done so. I read this week where they have joined Darrington Press, the publishers of Critical Role's new game, Daggerheart.
Starting point is 00:01:24 Darrington Press, the publishers of Critical Role's new game, Daggerheart. Crawford and Perkins were, in a lot of ways, architects of D&D's resurgence after the failed fourth edition release. They are, it's not underselling it to say, Titans of the industry, and I have watched more videos with them, except for possibly Critical Role and Glass Cannon podcast. I greatly value their opinions and feel that they are wonderful ambassadors for this hobby that I love. Will this be a good move for them? Maybe, I kinda hope so.
Starting point is 00:01:54 I've read the character creation portion of Daggerheart and I love the narrative focus of the game and how players are encouraged to help world build and build connections with each other. I'm trying to find a game to play in by the way and when I do I'll give you a more thorough review of the game proper. All of this to say is that if Jeremy Crawford and Chris Perkins ever hear my little podcast I genuinely wish them the best at the new company and I hope that they can steer Daggerheart and future games to the same success that they had with D&D 5e. Now, onto the episode.
Starting point is 00:02:26 Whoops! Not yet. Literally while I was recording this episode, I received a notification that Jess Lanzillo, the vice president over the D&D franchise, is leaving Wizards of the Coast, and Todd Kenrick was laid off. You may have heard Todd's name before. He hosted a lot of the video content that Wizards of the Coast put out over the past couple of years, and Jess was the VP that oversaw the entire D&D franchise. Okay, if you've listened to me for any length of time, you know I'm not the hot take guy that says something shocking for the sake of getting clicks. So I'm not going to sit here and tell you that these four people leaving will be the death of Dungeons and Dragons and Wizards of the Coast is doomed. D&D is 50 years old and survived the twilight years of TSR who, by everything that I can read and tell, seem to run the company on
Starting point is 00:03:17 high costs and hopes that they would make it big. If D&D can survive those years, this will be just a minor speed bump in its history. D&D is still the 800 pound gorilla in the room for a reason, and for every person who's put off by Wizards of the Coast and the Pinkerton Fiasco or the OGL Shenanigans, there are a hundred new players whose only TTRPG they've ever heard of is Dungeons and Dragons. The game will remain strong and I think these experienced professionals will still be producing game content somewhere for someone. That means there will probably be even more variety in games that come out in the future and that is never a bad thing. Now no really on to the episode. Way back in episode 32 I did a discussion about the types of cheating that you see at
Starting point is 00:04:07 an RPG table, but that was in August of 2020. It even predates my uploading audio episodes to YouTube. Back in episode 32 I generally summed up my feelings on player cheating as, don't. You're robbing yourself and others of fun by doing so. What I didn't talk about much in that episode is what DMs and other players can actually do when they discover one of the players is cheating. In general what I will say is that do what you can to handle it in a mature and socially acceptable way. I think it's easier to prevent things like cheating when you
Starting point is 00:04:43 realize why certain players cheat. There's no way I can make a comprehensive list, but cheating commonly is caused by only a few things. They want to win, they don't want to disappoint their teammates, or they feel like they're losing the power dynamic with the DM. But Jeremy, that's a lot of complicated words in that sentence and we're not but humble gamers. Okay, fair enough. First, players want to win quote unquote at tabletop RPGs. They feel like the ultimate goal of the game is to beat the adventurer or conquer the campaign or whatever. This is a misguided belief in the purpose and fun of tabletop RPGs.
Starting point is 00:05:23 These games like Dungeons and Dragons, Blades in the Dark, Pathfinder, Daggerheart and so many others, they're collaborative storytelling. I mean you've probably heard me say that before. The point is is that there's not an antagonistic relationship between the GM and the players. They are not competing against each other. The player believes they are and they feel like they need to cheat to quote unquote win. A lesson it took me way too long to learn is that if you win all the time, the story gets boring.
Starting point is 00:05:55 The game becomes dull. If your character passed every skill check, hit every attack, made every roll, successfully pulled one over on every NPC they meet, the game becomes boring. Awful. Pointless. Okay, look, I killed another monster coming at me. Let's loot the corpse and move on. Yay. Another reason players cheat is that they don't want to let their fellow players down. Sometimes players feel the weight of expectation from the other PCs. These other PCs are depending on your character to do what they do. Whatever that is, find the trap, make the skill roll, hit the purple worm.
Starting point is 00:06:38 You're the rogue, the scout, the cleric, the frontline fighter or damage dealer and if you don't do your job well, the entire team suffers for it and all the failure will be your fault. All you want is for everyone to have a good time, but your dice aren't fucking cooperating and it's going awful. How can I miss nine damn attacks in a row? You know what? Okay, that's fine. I'll just lie about what I roll the next time so my friends don't think I'm some incompetent moron. You're willing to let part of the victory your party secures to be built on a lie. If I had a player who felt this way, I would sit down with them one on one and let them know two very important things about tabletop RPGs. One, very few things in the game can only be done by one character.
Starting point is 00:07:23 And two, that failure makes for great stories. The vast majority of the time there are multiple characters who can search for a trap, try to heal someone who's hurt, or attack the burrowing monster in front of you. Yes, some classes are more suited than others, but usually there are ways for others to fill in when you fail. So you're a bard and you can't roll for shit tonight. It's glorious when the barbarian has to make a charisma check to make an impression on the duchess, and thanks to the fickleness of the dice gods, somehow rolls high and passes
Starting point is 00:07:58 the check. The charming, sophisticated, erudite bard fumbles all over her words while the barbarian with a low intelligence and even lower charisma somehow, somehow breaks through the Duchess's cool demeanor and charms her heart. That's a moment that will be talked about in your gaming circle for a long time. And how did it start? By your bard rolling badly. I remember a combat in a game I was running in college where there was a desperate battle towards the end of a session
Starting point is 00:08:27 against a Medusa. Nasty fight, especially in the old days. The fighter was petrified, the cleric was unconscious and dying, and the Ranger was not in great shape either and rolling hot garbage all night. During the break the Rangers player was obviously getting frustrated and I reassured him the combat was exciting and that everyone seemed to be having fun, even the fighters player who was, I'm happy to say, cheering everyone else on, bringing snacks to the table, and just being an awesome teammate. The wizard was out of spells, completely, and down to hand-to-hand combat as their only solution left.
Starting point is 00:09:04 They made the saving throw against the Petrification and rolled above the Medusa's AC to hit her with his staff. He rolled max damage, which was just enough to kill the creature and save the party. That exciting moment would never have happened if the Ranger had been cheating and lying about his dice rolls all night. What makes RPGs fun is the fact that with every die roll your character could succeed or fail, be the hero, or die ignominously, or die in some forgotten shithole of a dungeon. The realistic threat of failure makes the game compelling, exciting, and so satisfying when you defy all the odds and emerge from a dungeon with the baddies head in a sack and your backpack full of brand new loot. Here's the thing about cheating in D&D or any other tabletop RPG. It robs you and your fellow
Starting point is 00:09:59 players of that incredible sense of accomplishment and sucks the fun out of the game. Fun is in the uncertainty of the die rolls, the difficult decisions you have to make every laugh and nail biting moment while you're playing. It's not about beating the DM, it's about collective overcoming of obstacles, fairly, together. Finally, sometimes players cheat because they feel like the DM has all the power, too much power even, and they need to feel powerful themselves. It's not fair that the GM can do so much. The GM has the power to change the entire
Starting point is 00:10:35 world. That's not fair. They will claim that when they cheat they're just trying to make the game fair. This indicates two things to me. One, a fundamental misunderstanding of tabletop RPGs. They assume that since the DM is portraying all the people and creatures in the world, friendly, unfriendly, and neutral, that the GM will bring all those resources to bear to make sure the player characters lose and the DM, air quote, wins. That's not how this game works. The GM is a player just one with different responsibilities. Yes, some games are harder than others. I've been in some games where it felt like the DM was constantly nerfing the baddies like
Starting point is 00:11:15 we're on bowling with lanes I have the bumpers up to keep you from getting a gutter ball. Then again, I've been in some games that felt like it was a complete meat grinder. Hell, the old module Tomb of Horrors, you can die in the first room very easily. I've played games where the rests were rare, healing was almost non-existent, and we faced wave after wave of things that wanted to eat our faces off. The DM didn't play the game trying to kill us, the module did a good enough job on its own. And I learned later, actually, that one of those modules, the DM was actually adjusting the adventure to make it easier. Let's just say the DM is an
Starting point is 00:11:50 asshole and they want to bring all the resources they have to bear on the PCs to kill them. News flash for you, any DM can, at their whim, make events happen in the world that will instantly kill the PCs with no hope for survival. It's the old joke about rocks fall and everyone dies, or a meteor crashes on the party, or the player said their character was old, like 35 or something, and that's when I decided a hundred dragons attacked the party. DMs control the entire game universe. If they really, really want to kill the party, it's trivial to do so. There's no amount of cheating that any player could do that would equal the power dynamic between
Starting point is 00:12:28 player and DM. I once saw a t-shirt that said, DM isn't a god, gods of the DMs NPCs. The GM could squash the characters in one round, but is that fun? No. There's no joy in destroying the character creations of those who come to your game to play. They're here to have fun and so are you. The DM presents what they consider a fair challenge to the PCs and allow the PCs the freedom to try to overcome it within the confines of the rules and the game system. Period. The second reason that a player may believe that cheating is required is that the player does not trust the DM to make the game fair and
Starting point is 00:13:09 fun. Yes, as I said, DMs are all powerful in their game world, but the fun does not come from DMs wielding that power to make players feel small. Any DM who uses it to massage their ego or fuel their power fantasy is just an asshole and you should find a different GM. I have said this too many times but I want every DM to think like this. Fun is more important than the story which is more important than the rules. From behind the screen the most important thing DMs should focus on is that the game is fun for all and perceived as fair by the players.
Starting point is 00:13:47 Behind the screen you could be doing whatever you need to do to make sure that the fight is fair, adding or removing reinforcing monsters that show up in later rounds, changing hit points, monster stats, even fudging die rolls in certain situations, because encounter balance is more art than science. certain situations because encounter balance is more art than science. If you do any of those things behind the screen to make the game more fun for your players, then your heart is in the right place. Players, don't cheat to make the game fair. Trust your DM that they will adjudicate the rules, provide encounters and challenges that are fair, and yes, I can see that it is a trust fall on the player's part.
Starting point is 00:14:26 But to properly quote the colloquialism, the truth is in the tasting of the pudding. If you trust the GM and you have fun, that's all the reason to trust them more. If you trust them and they punish you for it, find a better DM. Okay, I'm sorry, rant over. But what does cheating actually look like when you're at the table? Okay, I'm going to start over. But what does cheating actually look like when you're at the table? Okay, I'm gonna start my answer with a big ass caveat. Not everyone who does the things I'm going to describe
Starting point is 00:14:51 are always cheating. But some of these things are methods by which cheating can occur. Something to keep in mind is that one or two or even multiple instances of what I would describe wouldn't be concrete evidence of cheating. Sometimes it's a result of honest mistakes made by you or them. However, if some of the behaviors are consistent or always happen at the best time for them, maybe it's worth paying a little bit closer attention to what this player is doing. There are many types of cheating, but in general
Starting point is 00:15:19 it boils down to cheating with dice, misrepresenting something, bad calculation, or lies of omission. Let's take these one by one. It is easy to cheat with dice. Honestly, don't actually cheat by the way, but next time you're sitting around the table with your friends ready to roll them bones, take a look around. Usually the other players trust one another. The DM trusts you. You could easily do any of the
Starting point is 00:15:45 cheating methods I'm going to talk about. Should you? Please don't. For the love of Paylor, please don't. The first cheating method I'm going to talk about is the quicksnap. The player rolls the dice and after seeing what it rolled, picks up the dice really quickly and tells everyone what the result is. No one can see the dice but it sounds like this. After he rolls a five in front of him, he snatches the dice and says, ooh 15! That makes my attack a 26! Do I hit? No one saw what they actually rolled. Remember my caveat. Does a quick dice snatch automatically mean they're cheating? No, absolutely not. When I roll low repeatedly, I'll grab the die and
Starting point is 00:16:23 hold it up in front of everyone like it's on trial. You have failed me for the last time. I've been known to use dice jail to publicly shame the die for rolling so poorly so often. I'll put my other dice around it so they can witness what happens to dice when they disappoint. Sorry, where was I? Oh, oh. Another way players will cheat with dice is that they will always roll behind cover. Now I hear what you're saying. Jeremy, if players are smart, they'll make sure that their characters are behind cover if it's
Starting point is 00:16:52 available. To which I would say no, but no wait yes, characters that's a good idea. Dice are rolled behind cover so no one can see it. There was a time when the only way we could keep our rules handy at the table was via books. Hardcover, big heavy books. Stacks and stacks and stacks of them surrounding our character sheet because we needed the player's handbook and fiend folio and legends and lore and oriental adventures and unarthed arcana and all these books to keep track of our characters' abilities.
Starting point is 00:17:22 This created a two foot high stack of books around where we sat. by arranging the books in a certain way you could have a little improvised dice tray in the middle where the roll would bounce off one book or another and stay in a small area. Unfortunately some would use this area of limited visibility to try to hide what they rolled. They rolled the dice announce what they rolled but no one else can see what it is. The player would consistently have better than average rolls behind their wall of books, but no one would have any proof that they're cheating. They just seem to be remarkably lucky at the exact right time they need. Remember my caveat, just because someone is rolling behind a wall of books doesn't automatically mean
Starting point is 00:18:04 that they're cheating. It just makes it harder to verify if they're not. Also just because a player is rolling consistently high doesn't mean that they're cheating. I've gotten on great runs of luck as a player in a GM where seems like my d20 is only giving me rolls of 14 or higher for an hour or maybe even an entire session. Those are glorious times. But with a truly random roll the luck always eventually runs out and the dice roll distribution returns to the standard that you would see for rolls. There's another way players can cheat with their dice and that's doing
Starting point is 00:18:38 something known as pre-rolling or unprompted rolling of their dice. What does this look like? While the party's trekking through the forest, Bob, sitting at the table, keeps seemingly absentmindedly rolling a die in their tray or on the table and will suddenly stop and pick up a different die and start rolling that. The party encounters a vicious Minotaur bounty hunter sent to bring one of your murder hobos to justice and you call for initiative behind the screen. Without making an obvious roll, after that moment Bob says, hey, oh, I got a 20 on initiative for a total of 25. What he'd been doing is rolling a d20 over and over again until he got a number he
Starting point is 00:19:15 liked and waited for the right moment to use that pre-rolled value. They may do the same thing with damage dice or any other die rolls, but d20s are the most common way they do this Because they're commonly used in a wide variety of game systems This one bugs me a lot more than the others I've listed so far The player desperately wants to roll high numbers, so they toss their math rocks until they get a number that they like It's understandable to want to roll high, but it's also cheating Moving off dice for just a moment. Let's talk about other forms of cheating It's understandable to want to roll high, but it's also cheating. Moving off dice for just a moment. Let's talk about other forms of cheating. I'm gonna lump this into the general category of lying or what's on your character or inventory or spell sheet.
Starting point is 00:19:54 Anything they're responsible for tracking. Lori is a wizard who likes to hoard magic potions and scrolls, etc. She is always just on the cusp of being overburdened by weight, but never tips over the edge. Always just a half pound short of slower movement. But hey, maybe that's good weight management. No fault there, my low strength characters walk that line pretty carefully in games where encumbrance is tracked. No, no, I'm talking about they're fighting a Yeti, they happen to have a potion of flame breath. When they need to escape, they happen to have a potion of speed or invisibility. A guard notices the party sneaking around and they capture her.
Starting point is 00:20:32 Okay, well she just happens to have a scroll of mind erasure or wand of amnesia or, as they called it in Megamind, a forget-me-stick. They always have the right spell memorized for the day or picked up a rope and pitons the last time they were in town they're maintaining their sheet and always just happen to have the one thing they would need a Variant of this would be that they forget to mark off consumables when they use them They drink that cure moderate potion in the middle of the minotaur fight It was the only one they had but when they get into a fight with a group of displacer beasts down the road, they say, oh, I'm gonna drink my Cure Moderate potion. Wait a minute, where'd you get
Starting point is 00:21:11 that potion? Oh, I've had it for a long time. Didn't you drink it last combat? Yeah, but I had two before that. Okay, and the game goes on. A variant of this is not tracking ammunition. Different DMs handle ammunition different ways. For example, I tend to not make my players track non-magical ammunition. Toss an extra silver piece every now and again when you're in town and it's assumed that you bought plenty. However, I do require tracking of magical ammunition and those should be marked off when used. Some DMs do that with all ammunition. It's up to you. No judgment here. The conversation with their player goes like
Starting point is 00:21:48 didn't you already use that Ogre Bane arrow? No no no I hadn't used that one yet. You seem to remember they tried to fire it at the troll from two sessions ago but you know God maybe you're wrong. Remember my caveat just because the player has more inventory or different inventory than you remember doesn't mean that they're cheating. I don't know about you, but behind the screen I am juggling a lot of things while running games and it's easy for me to lose track of who has what in their inventory. You could have forgotten, hell I do all the time. I forget sometimes from the equipment that my baddies have.
Starting point is 00:22:22 I can't tell you how many undead I've run who were destroyed with a potion of inflicted wounds on their belt that would have partially or completely healed them. One thing you can do is ask your players to provide you a prepared spell list and inventory at the beginning of each session. It's more work for the players and for you. The players are probably gonna grumble,
Starting point is 00:22:40 but the smart ones will probably figure out pretty quickly why you're doing it. Then as consumables get used you check off or cross it off or otherwise mark it so that you can catch when a player accidentally tries to use a spell twice when they can only cast it once or accidentally tries to drink a potion twice when they only have one of them. Another value on the character sheet that could be manipulated by a player who wants to cheat is hit points Oh, they have a value on the sheet and but they may have forgotten to deduct the full damage a few times Well, you know any errors that they make while calculating their remaining hit points Always seem to be in their favor saying that they have 55 hit points left when they should only have 45 There's no good way of keeping track of this except for the DM to keep a hit point tally
Starting point is 00:23:26 behind the screen or using a virtual tabletop that does all this for you. The last category of cheating is what I'm going to broadly call lies of omission. There's a portion of the rules that they conveniently forget when the rule would hurt what they want to do. For example, they're playing a Pathfinder 2 ee game and say they want to cast needle darts at the kobold 100 feet away. You ask them what the spell does because, let's face it, there's a shit ton of spells out there and it's hard to remember all the new spells with new names in the game system.
Starting point is 00:23:56 And so they give you the details about the traditions and oh it targets one creature and does 3d4 damage and requires an attack roll but they leave out the part where the maximum range of the spell is 60 feet. So you look it up, isn't the maximum range 60 feet on that? Oh yeah you're right, my bad, I'm gonna do something else this round. Or they forget that a certain action will provoke an attack of opportunity or reactive strike unless you call them out on it. Oh this spell has the manipulate trait? I must have forgotten, my bad. Again, just because someone leaves out part of the spell description, does that mean that they're cheating? No. But if it happens a lot,
Starting point is 00:24:34 does it make it more likely they're cheating? Yeah, especially when the stuff that they leave out would always be detrimental to them. Unfortunately, if you have a player that's doing this, the only solution is to keep a reference handy of spell and item information. Online sites and virtual tabletops are great for this so when they cast a certain spell you can look it up very quickly. Earlier I talked about why players cheat but regardless of the reason occasionally players may try to cheat and you may catch them. Do what do you do? I've talked about some strategies throughout the episode,
Starting point is 00:25:08 but I think there's some generic solutions that you can consider. Start off by setting the expectation of a fair game early. In session zero or during discussions with potential players, discuss your distaste for cheating with your players and let them know that you expect honesty from them at all times. Honest mistakes are fine, we all make them.
Starting point is 00:25:28 There's a lot of fucking math in this game. Forgetting to mark off healing serum you used in a fight, giving yourself extra spell slots that you shouldn't have. Okay, mistakes happen but when it's regular and always to their benefit, tell them you would need to address it. DMs generally trust your players. This is my default state that I come into nearly every game with. I'd recommend you not assume that they're cheating unless you're told by another player, or witness it yourself with enough evidence that you're convinced. And even when you discover it, by the way, you need to ask yourself if the cheating is affecting the game, your fun, or the other player's fun.
Starting point is 00:26:07 If yes to any of those three things, then the cheating needs to be dealt with. And as the DM, chances are you're gonna be the one that has to do it. So what do you do if a player you suspect is doing the quick snatch or rolling behind cover, in some way you suspect the player is not being honest about their die rolls? Ask for all rolls to be made in the open. Use a communal dice
Starting point is 00:26:28 tray or if you're on a virtual tabletop, configure it so that all dice rolls are displayed and ask your players to use that instead of physical dice at home. If you suspect one of your players is pre-rolling, tell them stop. Rolls before they announce what they want to do are null and void. The proper way to take an action is to announce what you want to do, roll the dice the appropriate number of times, most of the time this is once, barring advantage, disadvantage, luck, or some other mechanic. Then tell us what the result is. Now dice is easy. Let's get to the hard stuff. If you've read forum posts and reddit threads about what to do when a player is easy, let's get to the hard stuff. If you've read forum posts and reddit
Starting point is 00:27:05 threads about what to do when a player is cheating, the most common answer is talk to them like a damn adult. Yes, but I think that oversimplifies the problem. Do you need to have a conversation with this potentially cheating player? Absolutely. As the DM, if I have to make a direct accusation, that's the first arrow I always pull out of my anti-cheating quiver. I always have this conversation one on one. This is not the time to go all Salem witch trials and stand up at the table with a accusing
Starting point is 00:27:33 finger screaming, CHEATER! No. If you're a player, find a quiet time and let the DM know your concerns. Leave open the possibility that you could be wrong and misreading what's going on by that player. Stay humble and this goes a lot better. If you're the DM and you need to make a direct accusation, choose the right time and place to do so. Talk to them one-on-one, away from the game, away from the rest of the group. This avoids public embarrassment and hopefully reduces the automatic defensiveness that tends to show up during these conversations.
Starting point is 00:28:07 While this is a direct conversation about their possibly cheating, I would recommend that you don't accuse them of cheating directly. Tell them the evidence that you or your other players have observed and let them know that if they're not cheating, it kind of looks like they are. This gives them the opportunity to correct the behavior or explain what they're doing that's not cheating. If they have a valid explanation for what you thought was cheating, accept it and most importantly see if the cheating behavior changes. Be calm, be direct, don't beat around the bush. As I mentioned, don't be aggressive. Use I statements. For example, for example, hey Bob, can we chat for a minute?
Starting point is 00:28:47 I've noticed a few instances during games where it seems like and give specific non-judgmental examples. Focus on fairness and fun. Explain that cheating impacts the fairness of the game and can reduce the fun for everyone else. Emphasize that these games are social and collaborative. Now listen to them, listen to their perspective. They
Starting point is 00:29:10 may have an explanation, even if it's not a good one, or they may deny it. Try to listen, but make sure you stand firm on the importance of fair play. Set those clear expectations. State to the player that cheating is not acceptable and that you expect them to be fair moving forward. Discuss what will happen if the behavior continues. For example, they may be asked to leave the group. The other possible solution is to change the rules for everyone because of one cheater. All dice rolls are now public in a central visible location, like a centralized dice tray. Maybe if a player consistently misinterprets the rules, look them up and if necessary gently but firmly clarify the correct ruling. Actually the ability works like this. If the issue is data on their character
Starting point is 00:29:59 sheets, occasionally, maybe between sessions, ask everyone to double check their sheets for accuracy. This can be framed as a general good practice anyway. But also, collect copies of the character sheets for you to check as well. At this point, remember, you're doing it for everyone, not just the cheater. My final statement is that if you have a player that's cheating and they won't stop, they are a burden on you and the other players, and the DM must remove them from the group. If you've ever been in a game where one player is cheating and everyone knows it, when they leave it is such a breath of fresh air and the game immediately gets better.
Starting point is 00:30:37 You don't really realize what a fun and time suck cheaters are until they are removed. Players, before you leave a game where someone else is cheating, talk to your DM about it. Give them a chance to fix the problem. And DMs, I know confrontation is hard, but in this case remember the non-cheating players whose fun is being harmed by the one cheating player. Steal your resolve and however you want to phrase it, invite them not to return. Kick them to the curb. Tell them the group is moving on without them if they will not stop cheating. Yes, it's going to be hard. It's going to suck.
Starting point is 00:31:14 There may even be yelling and accusations, but if you've reached the stage where you feel like they need to go, then they need to go. The game should be fun for all, and that starts with a fair table. Very occasionally you'll discover a player that's cheating, lying about dice rolls, manipulating dice, forgetting important rules, and neglecting to track data properly on their character sheet. As a player, let your DM know your suspicions, but leave open the possibility that you're wrong. DMs, if you notice one of your players cheating, it needs to be addressed, whether indirectly through modifying
Starting point is 00:31:48 table etiquette and the way you're playing or via a direct conversation with the player and ask for an explanation. Focus on fairness for everyone and I'd be willing to bet that you and your players would have fun doing it. Thank you so much for listening to my little podcast. Again, please like, subscribe. If you have any topic ideas, send them to me on social media or feedback at taking20podcast.com. In two weeks, we're going to have a player focused episode encouraging you to play your character more recklessly to have even more fun in your game. But before I go, I want to thank this week's sponsor Shovels. Shovel technology
Starting point is 00:32:25 has come a long way in the past decade. They're always breaking new ground. This has been episode 256 talking about player cheating. My name is Jeremy Shelley and I hope that your next game is your best game. The Taking20 podcast is copyright 2025 by Jeremy Shelley. The opinions or views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host. References to game system content are copyrighted by their respective publishers.

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