Taking 20 Podcast - Ep 263 - DM PCs

Episode Date: October 19, 2025

This week, we're diving into the often-debated topic of Dungeon Master Player Characters (DM PCs). In this episode we talk about alternatives ot the DMPC, how to effectively integrate a DM-controlled character into your campaign without overshadowing your players, maintaining player agency, and enhancing the overall game experience. Give us a listen to discover tips for creating supportive DM PCs, managing their role, and knowing when it's best to let them go.    #rpg #ttrpg #dnd #pathfinder #gmtips #dmpcs #tabletop #roleplaying   Resources: Buy Me a Coffee! - ko-fi.com/taking20podcast www.taking20podcast.com  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/taking20podcast  Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/taking20podcast  Bluesky - https://bsky.app/profile/taking20podcast.bsky.social

This week on the Taking 20 podcast. But suddenly, a lot of the plot hooks revolve around your DMPC and not the other party members. And the DMPC becomes the center of all the cool story beats to the detriment of the fun of the other players. Thank you for listening to the Taking 20 podcast, episode 263. advice for DMs out there about DMPCs. I want to thank this week's sponsor, vacuum cleaners. If you think social media has been spying on you, I mean, it is, don't get me wrong, but your vacuum cleaner has been gathering dirt on you for years.

Normally here's where I would ask for donations like a street performer with a very empty hat, but someone has filled that hat to the brim since last episode with a very generous donation of $70 that covers the rest of our costs for 2025. I have a message out to them to see if I can thank them by name, and if they respond yes, then they're going to get thanked again later by name in a future episode. It's a common scenario. The party's ready to go into the dungeon, but they're missing something, some skill or ability that you as the DM know they are going to need.

You have a perfect character concept to address this need, and if you're honest with yourself, you're itching to play this adventure. But you're the DM. I know I'll include a D.M. DMPC. It's a character played by the DM. That way I get the best of both worlds. I can DM and I can play at the same time. While this seems like a good idea, it comes with its own set of challenges and pitfalls. Today, we're going to explore how to navigate these treacherous waters successfully. But hey, I get it. A lot of us DMs out there only run games because no one else

will. Hell, I'd argue that most of us become GMs because no one else in our friend group wants the responsibility. It's how I started DMing back when dinosaurs ruled the earth, and I think a lot of us come to DMing the same way. By the way, I think the Stegosaurus that I played with wanted to GM, but not with that tiny brain, and then the T-Rex volunteered, but they can't roll the dice with those stubby little arms. Sorry, the point being, sometimes DMs crave playing, and the thought of running a character alongside their players seems like the best of both worlds. However, I'd argue that there are more ways for this to go wrong than there is for it to go right. It comes down to a fundamental difference in the roles of GM versus player.

The job of the DEM or GM is to facilitate the story and challenge the players while the players attempt to overcome the challenge with imperfect knowledge of the universe, with that last phrase being the key thing. They don't have perfect knowledge of the adventure, what's coming, what's needed, the DCs they need to be able to roll. They haven't seen the answer to the riddle, the trap, the haunt, and therefore have to solve the problem with the knowledge they have. They don't know how many floors are in the Emerald Spire Super Dungeon.

They don't know the motives of the NPCs that they interact with. That's one of the most fun parts of being a player in an adventure like this, being able to come up with a workable solution despite a potential shortfall of information or overcoming level after level of dungeon, never knowing where the bottom and the big bad truly is. A DM, by nature of their role, knows all of those things. Part of running an adventure is knowing the adventure,

or at least knowing what's coming immediately next. During their preparation for the session, the GM has to read how to solve the riddle, knows what monsters are right around the corner, knows the dungeon is 16 levels deep, and is aware that Drianus the Marchant is shady as fuck. Because DMs have that knowledge, if you include a DMPC, there's a temptation to let that DMPC provide the solution, take center stage, become the main character, if you will. The DMPC can easily take up too much session time, become the go-to solver of problems, and become, by very nature, central to the story even if they shouldn't be.

The other players sometimes even unconsciously step back and just let the DMPC be the star. And frankly, there's a huge temptation for DMs running DM PCs to let their PC become the be-all to end-all for the campaign. The DM, I mean, like all the rest of us, if you're playing characters, you want that character to be cool and awesome and amazing at all of these things that are needed for the adventure. I get it. Who doesn't love to be the star? But suddenly, a lot of the plot hooks revolve around your DMPC and not the other party members. The DMPC becomes the center of all the cool story beats to the detriment of the fun of the other players. Our tabletop role-playing games are meant to give all players an opportunity to be the star, to collaborate with one another.

The game should not become a stage for you to be the controller of the game and the star of it. Also, it's difficult for DMs to separate their knowledge from the knowledge that the character would have. This results in a ton of metagaming, and the DMPC starts acting on knowledge that maybe the PCs don't or shouldn't have. Even if you as the DM are very good at isolating your game running versus game playing capabilities, DMs would still be tempted to give their DMPC exactly the equipment that they want in the situations where they could shine. That being said, if you can avoid the pitfalls I've mentioned, there's one primary reason for including a DMPC, to include capabilities or skills that are missing in the current party makeup.

Case in point. Years ago, we had a player who had to leave the campaign because of real-world issues. Unfortunately, that player was running the cleric character who was the only one who could provide healing to the party. Needless to say, D&D at the time, was built around the party, always having some kind of healing available. So what did I do? I added a cleric to provide that necessary healing.

However, that cleric was a DMPC, but was little more than a slightly more helpful and loyal NPC. More on that in a minute. Suppose that's the situation your party's in. They're missing a frontline fighter or a trapfinder or cleric or whatever, and the DM believes that being without such a character puts the party at a severe disadvantage. In that case, it might make sense to include a DMPC, or even better, an NPC hireling.

There is a huge difference between a DMPC and an NPC companion or hirling. The DMPC is built as a true player character, having all the class rules, is a full member of the adventuring party, gets treasure and loot. They have goals and dreams, just like any other PC would. An NPC companion or follower, by contrast, would just be a... bare-bones character. I mean, at one point, I had written a skeleton of a character, but gullenton characters are a thing, and I didn't mean to bring that up as an ancestry or race that was... You know what? There are a lot of reasons to include undeads as PC possible races or ancestry. And that's why you should avoid romantic encounters with the undead.

Anyway, NPCs aren't full members of the party. They provide a specific service, and that's about yet. They're along for the ride to support the party, not become full-fledged members of it. But Jeremy, my PCs are a bunch of murder hoboing idiots. Important NPCs who deliver plot end up on the ends of their spears. I need a convenient method to deliver adventure information like plot hooks or critical information to the party. They don't talk to NPCs, so I have to include a DMPC. All right, I will grant you. There are some campaigns that are purely combat-focused dungeon crawls with almost no NPC interaction, no social skill checks, no opportunity for lore or exposition dumps.

In those cases, it maybe include one, but even then, I'd shy away from that. I mean, we can all figure out how to use an NPC that was a captive or defector from one of the groups in the dungeon, or find other ways like notes found on bodies or creatures who give up information rather than dying at the hand of the PCs. Let's get the biggest and most controversial tip out of the way first. In my experience, DMPCs introduce more potential harm than good, and I wholeheartedly recommend against adding them if you can avoid it at all. I've seen this tried at least a half a dozen times,

and it generally ends poorly. Disaster. Or maybe not that bad, maybe hurt feelings. The DMPC starts getting the glory, making the decisions, and generally the players start feeling like passengers in the campaign where they really should be the main drivers. I would argue if you really feel like you need to add a DMPC, because there's a specific capability that's not included with the party,

maybe see if there are magic items or other capabilities that can augment or provide that missing service. For example, if you have a cleric who's going to be gone from your campaign for an extended period of time, maybe be freer with the healing potions. Oh, doggone. It seems like there's a potion to cure moderate around here everywhere. They're like common as milkweed pollen. That might serve to fill in that missing capability

without requiring you to run a DMPC. Now, in the rare circumstance where a DMPC is absolutely necessary, here are a few tips to including a DMPC. One, try to go the item or NPC companion route first. That way the DMPC is not taking a share of the treasure and introducing potential hurt feelings when disagreements happen or the other players just decide to let the DMPC just kind of go hog. 2. Never forget why you're including a DMPC. Before you even create one, ask yourself,

why do you need one? Is this to fill a particular party role, deliver plot hooks, provide information? If you can achieve your goal through an NPC or through any other method, do that instead. DMPCs generally should be a solution of last resort. Now, as soon as you know the why of the DMPC, and as soon as that Y is no longer needed, the DMPC needs to leave. Maybe another player joins, or the PCs level up and now have that missing piece or capability. They now have a cleric. The Ranger takes a level dip in rogue to be able to find and disable traps. Whatever it was, as soon as there's a chance that the DMPC is now redundant, they need to bow out. They get called back home, or they leave in the night the next time the party camps,

or they die a heroic death passing the torch to the new PC that will fill that role. Have an exit strategy for your DMPC for as soon as they are not needed anymore. 3. DMPCs should never grab the spotlight. They should be supporting the other PCs, providing assistance to let the other PCs be the stars. Ensure your DMPC doesn't take up too much of the narrative spotlight. The story is about the player characters, not your DMPC. running. Anytime I have to have a DMPC. Next tip, anytime you're running a DMPC, make sure they have no opinion on major party decisions. Leave that to the other players. I know that's not realistic because

we all have opinions about everything, but in order to completely eliminate any chance that I'll use metagame knowledge for my DMPC or influence what the party does, the DMPC lets the other players make decisions for the next big choice or next direction of the adventure, which way to go at an intersection, which NPC to interview, what hex to uncover next, sorry, Floyd the Cleric has no opinion on this and supports whatever the rest of you decide. If your DMPC has a strong opinion on the directions the PCs take, the other player characters will start deferring to the DMPC for all decisions and opinions. The other players will assume that, well, you know, the DMPC. I mean, you know, they're the run by the DM and, you know, the DM probably knows what the best possible outcome is, so let's just listen to that PC because they'll never steer us wrong. The party's in a dungeon and they reach an intersection. They don't know whether to go to left or right. The DM knows, and if the PC played by the DM keeps saying, we should go right, then the PCs are going to assume that the DM knows what the hell they're talking about. Whether the DM intends to or not, a DMPC making suggestions,

are arguing for a certain decision, could be considered a form of railroading by the DM, making the other PC decisions less important or maybe even irrelevant. Finally, imagine your DMPC emphatically says the party should go right, and the party encounters a tough fight or gets lost in the maize and suffers a TPK. The players are going to resent the DM for trying to drive the party into that situation, whether the DM intended that outcome or not. So, if you do decide to play a DMPC, which again, I recommend you don't, always let the non-DMPCs make the decisions for the party. Running a DMPC can be a delicate act.

The key is to remember that your role as a DM is to facilitate the player's story, not let your own character become the center of the story. In general, I don't recommend running a DMPC at all, and instead, adjusting an adventure behind the screen, adding idols, or adding followers that can provide these capabilities. But if you do include one, by keeping your DMPC in a supportive role, you're giving your players agency, and by having a clear purpose and exit strategy, you can avoid some of the common pitfalls and potentially enhance your game. The most memorable moments in tabletop RPGs come from players overcoming challenges together,

and a well-managed, well-distant DMPC can be a part of that rather than a distraction. So be careful about including a DMPC, and if you do, keep them in the background. If you do, I'd be willing to bet that you and your players would have fun doing it. Thank you so much for listening. I'd like to get your feedback, by the way, whether via social media or email, feedback at taking20 podcast.com. What topics would you like to hear me cover? Is there a particular tabletop news items you'd like me to discuss or GM topic? Please send me a message and let me know what you'd like to hear.

But before I go, I want to thank this week's sponsor, vacuum cleaners. You know, I've used a lot of vacuum cleaners throughout my days, and I guess they all just suck. I'm like, okay, you had to expect that joke. I mean, as soon as I said vacuum cleaners at the very beginning of the episode, you had to know a suck joke was coming. So if you're upset by that joke, I apologize, but man, it was right there. I can't pass it up. Anyway, this has been episode 263 discussing DMPCs. My name is Jeremy Shelley, and I hope that your next game is your best game.

The Taking 20 podcast is Copyright 2025 by Jeremy Shelley. The opinions or views expressed by guests are their own, and do not necessarily reflect those of the host. References to game system content are copyright their respective publishers.