Taking 20 Podcast - Ep 276 - Try New Games

Episode Date: May 24, 2026

Is your long-running RPG group stuck in a rut, playing the same game system year after year? In this episode, we tackle the toughest quest in tabletop gaming: convincing your friends to try something new.  I’ll talk about reasons for resistance, the best arguments for trying new systems and some tips for making it successful   #rpg #ttrpg #dnd #pathfinder #gmtips #NewRPG Resources: Buy Me a Coffee! - ko-fi.com/taking20podcast www.taking20podcast.com  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/taking20podcast  Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/taking20podcast  Bluesky - https://bsky.app/profile/taking20podcast.bsky.social    Chris Cocks Interview:  https://www.gamesradar.com/tabletop-gaming/our-players-are-going-to-be-pretty-psyched-hasbro-ceo-talks-d-and-d-video-games-and-playing-to-win/  Ep 184 - Preparing One Shots - https://www.taking20podcast.com/e/ep-184-preparing-one-shots/  Ep 221 - Rules Light RPGs - https://www.taking20podcast.com/e/ep-221-rules-light-rpgs/

This week on the Taking 20 podcast. The way to approach your group, by the way, is to focus on the positive aspects of the new game system you want to try, not the negatives of the existing system. Instead of saying, I hate sitting in town while we debate which fucking potion to buy, we should play blades in the dark. Turn that idea into a positive. You're focusing on the unique mechanics that might solve a pain point in your existing game.

Thank you for listening to the Taking 20 podcast. episode 276, discussing the challenge of getting your group to try a different tabletop RPG. I want to thank this week's sponsor, Numbers. Hey, to the person who invented the number zero, thanks for nothing. To my listeners in the U.S., I want to wish you a very happy Memorial Day weekend. I hope you get a chance to do some grilling or cooking out or whatever it is you want to do to enjoy an extra day off. Do you have any topics you'd like to hear me discuss or questions you'd like me to answer or maybe issues I can help? with around your table. Like this one, by the way, that was suggested by Kurtloy over on coffee.

If so, send me an email, feedback at taking20podcast.com, or message me on the socials, or you can send me a message on my coffee page, k0.fi.com slash taking 20 podcast. And if you're so inclined, you can even donate to help keep the podcast alive. Also, if you like the podcast, please mention it to the other gaming friends or share a link wherever you found the episode on social media. Thank you so much in advance for taking any time that you can to interact with me. To start off, please accept my apologies. I started writing this episode and more and more just kept pouring out of me, but not

quite enough for two episodes. So all this to say is that I'll damn near guarantee that this is going to go longer than 20 minutes, and I'll simply ask your forgiveness for it. But I want to start the episode with News from Hasbro, the parent company of Wizards of the Coast who owns Dungeons and Dragons. In a recent interview with Games Radar Plus, Hasbro's CEO, Cook's outlined a future where he hoped that D&D will work around a live service model of releases. He spoke about how it just makes sense for players to consider D&D from a live

service framework with seasonal models and weekly drops of digital cosmetics for your D&D beyond account as long as you subscribe to their service. It sounds like rather than releasing a big book, they'll trickle out changes over time. There's no pricing details or anything like that released. I don't even know what it all it will entail. It was just a very interesting statement to make by the CEO. Live service has traditionally been associated with things like video games. The term has some serious negative connotations like releasing stuff that's half finished and patching them later. Predatory monetization and a feeling that you never actually own what you're using, that you're just paying a monthly fee to rent it. I completely understand

any concerns you may have with this direction the Hasbro CEO wants to take D&D, and honestly, I share them. But before we start taking up torches and pitchforks, let's wait and see. Even if the worst comes to pass and Hasbro starts selling D&D as a service, but that would only apply to electronic content. As long as hard copy books are produced, those will be buy once and they're yours forever. I don't anticipate that they're going to show up at your house and demand to repossess your hardcover edition just because you're not subscribed to D&D Beyond anymore.

Don't get me wrong. As someone who plays and runs games in virtual tabletops, I love having electronic integration, but it's not critically necessary. I could drop back to running games in person and with a stack of books around me if needed, and if D&D wants to try to live service the game, then I'll drop back to playing older editions

or maybe a different game system altogether. Speaking of playing other game systems, today's topic idea came from Kurt Loy over on coffee. He generously donated to the podcast and asked the question about getting your group to try different game systems. Kurt Loy, I hope this answers the question, and if not, please feel free to message me, and we can have a one-on-one conversation. So your group has been playing D&D for many years now. You've run through the Lost Minds of Fandelver, Curse of Straw, Tomb of Annihilation, and even a third-party module or two like The Rise of the Drow. You've played nearly every class you've ever wanted to play, and you're starting to get kind of a,

been there done that feel to D&D. Maybe even the release of the 2024 rules feel too similar to what you've been playing and you're itching to try something honestly new. You've watched a live play of Blades in the Dark, listen to a podcast where they played Call of Klu, and maybe at a recent convention you tried Starfinder 2E and had a great time. You want to bring these games back to your gaming group, but how?

How can you convince your group to exchange swords for laser pistol, or crossbows for shotguns. So let's get the obvious out of the way first. This is going to be a difficult task for you. I don't mean to start this episode off on a downer or crush your hopes that this will never happen, but there are some factors that will be working against you to get people to try new game systems. It's going to be hard to get them to try this new thing for multiple reasons. First off, we humans are creatures of habit.

We find something we like and we get. get into a comfort zone. This isn't just true for RPGs, by the way, but life in general. People generally gravitate towards their comfort zones and have built-in resistance to change. That could be a psychological podcast episode all its own, but entire books have been written about that, so who moved my cheese, what got you here, won't get you there, so many other books encouraging people to embrace inevitable change. But again, I am nowhere near qualified enough to talk about resistance to change in broad terms, so I'm going to stick to RPGs. Your group's been playing D&D for a long time.

They're familiar with the rules and it's a tried and true system. They know how initiative and skill checks work. They know how to bend the game system to do what they want it to, both behind the screen and in front of it. To them, D&D is like that old pair of jeans that you own, that you've had it and it fits so well because you've worn them for so long. That's the first bit of resistance you're going to need to be ready to address, their comfort zone and familiarity with the existing system.

The next thing you need to prepare for is the sunk cost argument. The sunk cost fallacy is the natural tendency to continue with something because of the resources you have already poured into it, even if continuing it is not the best choice. You go see a movie and it's just awful. You're 30 minutes in and it's just the worst drek you've ever seen. But you've already paid your $25 for a ticket and snack so you stick around because you think, well, I'm already out the money. I might as well stick around and see the end. Or one that I had last year, you've paid to repair a car for four times the last two years.

You've already invested so much money into keeping it running, you might as well pay for this next repair too. In both of those examples, you're focused on the amount that you've invested in the past, not what future investments will lose you. Like more money to keep the car running or two hours of your life watching a garbage movie you'll never get back. Similarly at the RPG table,

People have spent years in game systems, spent hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars on books, modules, miniatures, maps, subscriptions, and goodness knows what else to play that RPG. They very well may wring their hands at all the money they've spent and not consider the fun they might have playing something just a little different. Lastly, it's a common human tendency to think new things are scary. I'm sure there's some pre-wired part of our cavemen brains that tell us that the new cave over there might have a freaking bear in it, and our club just won't be much use against it. The vast majority of us aren't at great risk for turning into bear excrement anytime soon, but that doesn't stop that portion of our brain, immediately jumps to new thing equals scary. And keep in mind, when you approach your group to propose playing something new, new systems are scary and unfamiliar. There's a comfort to knowing the rules inside and out.

People fear getting rules wrong, looking like a fool in front of a group of people, even good friends. None of us like getting laughed at or feeling like we'll be ridiculed, so we stay with what we know, the comfortable rule system that we cite like it's holy scripture. I'm not even going to expound upon people who are just crotchety old farts who, By God, I like my game system. I don't want to change. You remember, I remember when this was all strawberry fields as far as the eye could see. Everyone memorized the Thaco tables, and an elf was a playable class, not an ancestor. It was so much better when the old...

Okay, I'm going to stop you right there. I was there, Gandalf, 3,000 years ago when the strength of men failed, and we were all a bunch of gatekeeping assholes. people get lost in the fallacy that anything new or different is inferior to what they already know. Jesus, I just thought about how this could expand into a whole episode on its own, about people sticking with old systems because they know it better and they feel superior to others by being able to cite obscure edge cases just because they've been soaking in the rules for 10, 20, 25 years or more. Okay, sorry, I've got to stop this line of thinking right now because we do not have the time.

Those are the headwinds you're going to be sailing into. Fear of the unknown. Comfort with systems they know. The sunk cost fallacy and the misguided belief that older is always better. Well, shit, Jeremy. Why should I try anything new now? You're just making it sound like it's just an impossible ask. Not at all.

I'm a 50-something-year-old proponent of the new. One of the things I've committed to in 2026 is trying some RPG game systems I haven't had a chance to play yet. Or maybe that I've only played once or twice. So far this year I've played in games of Blades in the Dark, Call of Cthulhu's 7th edition, and one game of fiasco that I'll call kind of an RPG light. I enjoyed all three of them,

partially because they were different and new. Heck, a few years ago, I made the transition from Pathfinder 1E and to 2E and then now to remastered. After doing that, going back to play a 1E game just feels clunky. Not because of the people or the GM, but I've seen another game system

that I think does it better. Heck, I'd love to try this year draw steel, shadow dark, fate just off the top of my head. I think what I'm saying is that I'd like to be independently wealthy and live like a 32-hour day so I can get all the RPG playing in I want to.

I'll just quote Billy Joel who's saying, the good old days weren't always good and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems. The same is true for RPGs. I mean, okay, I mentioned Thaco. Anybody remember that hot garbage? Oh, and treasure type listing like Treasure Type G, and the weird-ass categories of saving throws like petrification and polymorph,

new can seriously mean way better. And believe me, the new additions are way better than those old ones. So let's start with the basic arguments you can make to your group in favor of trying something new. Absolutely acknowledge it will involve learning new rules and doing RPG things in new RPG ways. But the main reason to try something different is it might be fun. One of my favorite sayings is that if you do what you've always done, you're going to get what you've always got. For different outcomes, you need to do different things. If you keep playing D&D, sure, it's fun, and there are different DMs and campaigns that can add spice to it,

but it's still D&D at the core, and it will do what D&D is good at. A fairly simple, high-fantasy magic RPG experience. Different rule systems, going to something else, has different strengths and mechanics that will make them unique. Of course I don't have time to go in-depth into a lot of these, but in my opinion, for example, D&D is high fantasy streamlined. No must, no fuss, it's the most approachable and easiest to play. Pathfinder 2E has the three-action economy and much more tactical adept, but makes combat easier. Call of Cthulhu is... God, it's just horror done right, where your character feels so small against the unknown forces behind the world. Blades in the dark with its flashback mechanics,

where groups can, instead of spending a damn hour planning a heist, it can be boring for some players. It lets you get on with the action by paying a stress tax to have prepared for the unexpected ahead of time. And Delta Green has this bond system, by the way, that I love, where you can sacrifice connections with the people your character loves to keep your sanity. Playing the same thing over and over and over again can get you in a rut, and new game systems make you think about playing RPGs differently, than your old system did.

Playing Cthulhu, by the way, which is much more free form than your traditional D&D adventure paths, has made me more bold in my questions to the DM. This town has a library, right? Wouldn't the local librarian be able to find something out about the Evermerk Woods? I never would have thought to do something like that

pre-call-of-Cathulu game, or if I did, I wouldn't have asked because I didn't want to run the slightest risk of possibly going off the rails. Now, my attitude, fuck it, we ball. I'm going to ask the questions, and I know the DM that I'm playing with has the capability to adapt and provide information if it's available. Okay, Jeremy, you've convinced me. I want to convince my friends to play a different game system.

How do I do that? Great question, voice in my head. Something to keep in mind, they may say no. And they have every right to say, that doesn't sound fun, or I don't want to play anything new right now. And if they do, you have to accept that. groups latch onto a game system and don't want to change. That's their thing and may not be receptive to change, maybe as, or at least as receptive as you are in this moment. If they say no, don't push, don't whine, don't complain, they have made their decision and it's okay. I once heard that

answers to requests like this fall into three categories. Go, no, or slow. In terms of trying new games, go means, hey, the group wants to try something new, let's do it. No means absolutely not. But slow means, okay, no, not right now, maybe later. Two of those answers mean, by the way, you're not trying new games right now, but only one of them means never. Sometimes the timing isn't right. Just because you get a no answer right now doesn't mean it will always be a no.

You just may need to ask again later. The way to approach your group, by the way, is to focus on the positive aspects of the new game system you want to try, not the negatives of the existing system. Instead of saying, I hate sitting in town while we debate which fucking potion to buy, we should play Blades in the Dark. Turn that idea into a positive.

Hey guys, I played Blades in the Dark and one of the neat things that it does is it minimizes this micromanaging we're doing right now. So like all the party shopping and preparation and that kind of thing, it has this thing called the flashback system. You're focusing on the unique mechanics that might solve a pain point

in your existing game. And makes the new game different, by the way, and possibly better, and it might even peak their interests. Secondly, people will be more reticent to play a different game system if it means a three-month, six-month, year-long commitment. Instead, propose a one-shot with a new game system. That makes the... It's a lower-stake proposition that you're making.

They're committing to one night of trying something new, and that is a more than reasonable request than asking a group to try it for four to 12 sessions. Third, timing is everything. If you propose a one shot in the middle of a major campaign right in the middle of a huge plot point, it's more likely to get shot down. Look for natural breakpoints in the existing game. For example, Paiso breaks up their adventure paths into three books,

so maybe at the end of one of the books might be a good time to do it. Or if you're in a traditional adventure, maybe right after you take down a lieutenant and your characters would have some downtime. You slay the beast of Karbanog and the session ends. The DM says they're happy but exhausted. Float the idea out there, see if anyone on the table bites at it. Sometimes, by the way, you get what you ask for, and you may be saying, okay, good!

Now what? Oh, God. They said yes. That means you're playing draw steel next week. Yay, I'm so excited. I know you are, but let me throw out a few caveats. If you're the one suggesting to try a new system, you'd better be willing to run it. You've probably read more about the system that others have, and the others will be looking to you to learn more about it.

That might mean that you have to sit behind the screen. And don't be all red skull. I lead others to a treasure I can't possess sort of mopey DM. No. Being a DM or GM or Keeper or Storymaster or whatever the game system calls it, is still playing the game and you can still have. have fun doing it. No, wait, stop, stop. I'm not done yet. I'm the episode's still going.

You get back in your music hole. I know I said the thing that usually ends the episode, but I'm making a point. Not time yet. Besides, I haven't made my second pun. You can come out when I tell you you can come out. Sorry about that. Sometimes the music jumps the gun just a little bit. I mentioned earlier about running one shots instead of campaigns.

If you do, as I mentioned in episode 184, link in the description, by the way, keep the game moving. Now isn't the time to get bogged down to the minutia of the game. If the party can't make a skill check, fail forward and keep the game moving. You want to highlight the positives of the game, not spend all three hours with your nose in the rulebook,

looking up whether you can spend luck on a pushed roll in Call of Cthaloo. You can't, by the way. Now is a good time to any to remind you that I'm working on an episode about Call of Cth Cthillow's 7th edition game system. Going by the number of games advertise, it's a fairly niche system.

Frankly, though, I am falling in love with it. Look for that episode in not too distant future. Back to that foray into a new game system, don't bury everyone in rules when you first start. Unless you're running a rules light or one-page game system, see episode 221 for examples of those, then there's no point in going over 70 pages of rules to start the game. Start off with the very basics.

For example, suppose you're explaining DM, indeed to someone who has never played it before. Start off with the very basic explanation of, hey, when you want to do something, the DM's going to ask you to roll a 20-sided dice that looks like this and add the relevant modifiers that you can find on your character sheet. That holds true whether you're trying to swing a sword or pick a lock. See? Bang, done.

Nothing about advantage, disadvantage, initiative, what the frickin' charms person's spell does. Keep it simple. Focus on the fun. As the game progresses and the players get more comfortable and the situations come up, then you can explain the new mechanics. By the way, we're about to start combat, which means you'll need to roll a D20 and add your initiative modifier,

which is located right here on your character sheet. Oh, does that mean I can stab something now? Yes, yes, it does. Go show that Colbold who's boss. Keep it simple. Traveler is a 2D6 system instead of a D20. Call of Cthulhu is a D-100 system, etc. Explain the nuanced rules.

in situations only when and if they come up. Also, by the way, for this first foray into a game system, don't make the players create their own characters, which just about every game system ever played, character creation is probably the hardest thing to do. Instead, start with pregenerated characters, or pregenes, if you want to shorten it. Select a broad range of pregenerated characters

for the new players to play. Think in terms of what you're used to. fighters, intellectuals, charming rogues, medics, healers, that type of thing. If one of your players has a vague idea of what they'd like to play, try to find a pre-gen that matches as closely as you can or modify one to meet their needs. And while we're on the subject of keeping it simple, do what you can to keep access to the rules as simple as possible

for the people who are doing you a solid by trying a new game system. Assuming you do understand the basics of the rules, give them a cheat sheet of those basics. Like I said, a cheat sheet, not a cheat notebook or cheat novel, cheat sheet. Maybe as long as front and back. And don't pack it in, by the way, like a cheat sheet when you're allowed one for a test in school. The page should be sparse, only have what's needed to play the game of that session. A lot of game systems have these intricate complexities that probably won't come up in the game,

so don't put it on the sheet. Base the rules you do put on the sheet on the adventure you're running. Obviously, I don't want to spoil any game systems or adventure, so I'll just keep it generic. Delta Green, for example, has sanity mechanics, but the one shot doesn't have any mechanics where someone can go insane or even maybe lose sanity, so if not, don't put that crap on the cheat sheet. Focus on the core rules, D100 versus a skill value, 2D6 plus an attribute, stick to bullet points, Taking an action to aim gives you a 20% bonus on the attack roll. That kind of thing.

Quick to the point. No paragraphs, no exposition. To quote the ancient movie and more ancient TV show Dragnet, just the facts, ma'am. Keep it simple. If you are designing or picking the adventure, pick one that lets you show off what's different. In other words, let the new system and its new unique mechanics shine and take center stage.

Whatever those mechanics happen to be. suppose you're playing fiasco. One of the core mechanics in fiasco is that you set up a situation. You're confronting your spouse about their affair with your boss and the mafia, or you're trying to get the jewels out of the office safe before the police arrive, or you're driving away from baddies who are shooting at your car. However, the outcome of the scene that you just set up is not continued by you. It's continued by the other players,

who will give you a die out of a dice pool where either, good or bad things can happen depending on what kind of die they give you. So you decide the ending based on whether your character has a good or a bad outcome. Again, depending on the type of die they give you. Fiasco is narratively based and if you have a bunch of people who like telling stories, show that off to the other players who may see how different that is from Starfinder 2E

that you've been playing for the past two years. Do not try to run the new game system the same as the old one. try to run fiasco like a Starfinder game. It's not designed for it, and the inevitable result will be all the other players saying, well, Fiasco can't do Starship combat like Starfinder can, so we're going to stick with that. And they'd be absolutely right. For maximum chance of success in the new system, end the game with a hook. I just looked up my old topic spreadsheet, and I realized that I have never had an episode dedicated to hooks and cliffhangers. Well,

that's going to be coming soon, too. Keep an eye out for that. As a gross oversimplification of what I'll say in that episode, what I mean by end with a hook is that there should be a resolution, but the resolution should hint at a bigger world, a bigger big bad, a deeper conspiracy or meaning. We human beings are drawn to unresolved issues, and that might make the group, or even part of the group, eager to know what other mysteries abound in this world where Cthulu is real,

and cults are all over the place. Yes, you found the stone of Marrakesh, but it's an instruction manual for opening a gate to the plane beyond the stars. You're too late, says the dying priest. The blood debt is being paid in Cairo, and the great Yag Sothothothrains at his failing shackles that hold him. Who the hell is Yogsothoth, and what's holding it back? How do we make sure what whatever the hell that is doesn't come to this plane of existence?

That's a hook that might capture a group's imagination. I hooked a few groups, by the way, into Pathfinder 1E and 2E by dangling hooks at the end of one-shot adventures. When the session is over, by the way, or at least ending, take some time, ask your fellow players what they liked and didn't like about the night and the game system and the one-shot. Even if the group doesn't want to change game systems, there may be something you can borrow from that new system and bring it into the old one. For example, I've used the flashback system in Pathfinder before, so the party doesn't have to

remember to buy items for every possible contingency they might run into in the abomination vaults. For you Pathfinder 1E fans and officinados, it's basically a free junior varsity version of what's called the Brilliant Planner Feet. During this talk, by the way, don't pressure the other players to keep playing the new system. Ask if they enjoyed it, and if so, what part they liked. There's always the chance that some or even all of them may want to keep playing the new system, and voila, you may have just doubled your number of game nights per week.

Resistance to change is common, simply because your players are human. Even if you make the most cogent and passionate of arguments for playing a new system, they might say no. Time the ask correctly at a natural break in the campaign. Be prepared to run the game you'd like the group to try or play. Keep the night simple and highlight what makes the new game system unique, and I'd bet that you, somebody unlocked the music cage, and your friends may have fun doing it. Thank you so much for listening.

I'd like to get your feedback either via social media or email feedback at taking20podcast.com. Please send me a message and let me know your thoughts on the episode. Tune in the next episode when I think it's time for another episode to talk about what expectations GMs should have for their players at their table. And then players, what you can do to help your GM and be a good member of your adventuring group. But before I go, I want to thank this week's sponsor, Numbers. I challenge the number one to a fight, but when they showed up, they brought three, five, and seven with them. I knew right then the odds were against me. This has been episode 276, hopefully helping you

convince your group to try a new game system. My name is Jeremy Shelley, and I hope that your next game is your best game. The Taking 20 podcast is copyright 2026 by Jeremy Shelley. The opinions or reviews expressed by guests are their own, and do not necessarily reflect those of the host. References to game system content are copyright their respective publishers.