Tech Brew Ride Home - (Bonus) The Moon Landing With Charles Fishman

Episode Date: July 20, 2019

So, today, July 20th 2019 is the 50th anniversary of human beings walking on the moon for the first time. As Glenn mentioned on Friday’s weekend longreads segment, Fast Company has been doing a 50 days to the moon thing. 50 different stories around the moon landing. They’re all from Charles Fishman, who wrote a book that came out this summer called One Giant Leap: The Impossible Mission that Flew Us to the Moon. Please buy that book if you want a super great summer long read, literal longread. But also, listen to this conversation with Charles discussing amazing stories about the moon landing that I for sure never knew, and 100% blew my mind… Sponsors: MarketingByMoe.com Castro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On April 4th, 2023, around 2 in the morning, a man was found stabbed multiple times on a sidewalk in downtown San Francisco. Hey, who did this to you? What happened next turned the story into a political firestorm. Reports have identified the victim as Bob Lee, the founder of Cash App. From Bloomberg Podcasts, this is Foundering, the Killing of Bob Lee, beginning April 16. Welcome to another weekend bonus episode of the Tech Meme Right Home. I'm Brian McCullough. So today, July 20th, 2019 is the 50th anniversary of human beings walking on the moon for the first time. As Glenn mentioned on Friday's weekend Long Read segment, Fast Company has been doing a 50 days to the moon thing, 50 different stories around the moon landing.

They're all from Charles Fishman, who wrote a book that came out this summer called One Giant, leap, the impossible mission that flew us to the moon. Please buy that book if you want a super great summer long read, a literal long read, but also listen to this conversation with Charles discussing amazing stories about the moon landing that I for sure never knew and 100% blew my mind. Just for the note for listeners, we're actually recording this ahead of time, but the day that you're listening to this, you may or may not know, is the 50th anniversary of human beings landing on the moon for the first time. Yesterday, I told you about the Fast Company series in the Long Reads segment, but also that's all based on a book by Charles Fishman, who we're talking to

today called One Giant Leap. So if you want a long read suggestion, please buy that book. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but based on the stories we're about to talk about, it's fantastic. Thanks for talking to us, Charles. happy to be here. All right. Like, literally, I just want to go down some of these fascinating stories that you've uncovered. How did you, I mean, obviously, you know, you were cognizant that the 50th anniversary was coming up, but how did the idea for this project? I believe you worked on it for four years of research. Well, the book took, the book took four years of research and reporting and writing. And when I write a book,

in order to get ready to talk about the book, I usually go through the book after it's written and sort of being copy edited at it. The publisher, I go through one time and I make a list of every cool story or sort of thought in the book that might make a little standalone anecdote. And so I did that with one giant leap. And the truth is that my mission in writing, about the race to the moon was very different than most of the people who've written about this. There is a whole library of books about how we got to the moon. Every piece of the book, every, I'm sorry, every piece of going to the moon has a book or three about it. The computer that flew us to the moon, there's three books. The Lunar Rover, the Little Moon Dune Buggy. There are two whole books just about how the Lunar Rover came to be. So my goal was to tell the story of the people back on Earth. Almost every moon book is told from the perspective of the astronauts. I wanted to tell the story from the perspective of the people who did the work to make the

astronauts mission possible. And when I went through the book looking for, you know, keeping a log of stories that might be sort of wonderful little standalone moments, the list is just astonishing. And that's because this project lasted 11 years. years and there were 400,000 people, and there are so many incredible innovations and sort of harrowing moments, not in space, but back on Earth. How are we going to make that happen? How are we going to make it happen on a deadline? And so then when I was thinking about trying to be in the conversation, it's nice to write a book, but the hoopla around the moon landing on an anniversary is a little bit like the ramp up to the Olympics, right? There's stuff everywhere.

Everybody wants to do something about the anniversary. And I thought, well, I have this book out, but no one's going to sit and read a 400-page book to get ready for the anniversary. How about we tell the stories one at a time at Fast Company? And it's the 50th anniversary. So it was sort of natural to just think 50 days to the moon. Let's unfurl one little. little story at a time. And my editor at Fast Company, David Lidski, who is really a minch and has taken such great care of this project. And I kind of thought it wouldn't be that hard. I'd write, you know, seven in advance on Monday and Tuesday. And then by Thursday, I'd have the next seven. And, you know, very quickly, we'd be, very quickly, we'd have them all in the bank.

And they'd be, you know, four or five hundred words. This morning's is about the advertising around the first moon landing, which was epic. It was just like the Super Bowl ads. There were some absolutely brilliant pieces of ad work and some things that just make you wince and grown, and they got an incredible amount of attention the way the Super Bowl ads do. We, we edited that one at 7 o'clock this morning. It's live. It's live right now. I'm looking at it. Yeah, yeah. We have not, in fact, gotten that far ahead. And as it turns out, I would say about a third of them, there's one sentence about a topic in the book.

And then I took that sentence and thought, you know, this is really interesting. And there's a lot more to say, let me just do an item on it real quick. As it turns out, by the time the series is done, I will have written as many words as if I had written one-third of the book again and done it in whatever it is. It's been seven weeks. My editor at Simon & Chuster could only dream of me being that productive, that quick, in other circumstances. Well, listen, because it sounds like you're going to have to get back to writing, let's dive into this and let me stipulate that I'm jumping around here. I'm not going chronologically or anything. Let's start here, because I had never heard this before,

and it's absolutely fascinating to me. In a sense, when they were on the moon, Armstrong and Company were lost, and actually NASA never really knew where they were. It wasn't that they had, that they ever lost radio contact. It was that they landed not in the place they thought they were going to land, right? That's exactly right. The coming down to the surface of the moon, Armstrong and Aldrin ended up having to pick a new landing place. The place they were aiming for and the place the lunar module's flight computer was programmed to fly to on autopilot,

turned out to be a crater as big as a football field and 60 feet deep. And at the bottom of it, rocks about the size of Honda Accords. So that really proved to be not a good spot. You don't want to put your lunar module down in a 60-foot deep hole. And just as an aside, sometimes people are like, well, that seems sloppy. How come they didn't know that? This was an incredibly early moment in the world of technology, photography. you know, the lunar module flew to the surface of the moon, and that whole event was televised.

It took 13 minutes to get from orbit to Tranquility Base, but the networks had to show animations and recreations because there was no outside camera showing the lunar module going down to the moon in real time. In fact, there was actually an outside camera, and it was a beautiful high-resolution color camera, and it was recording the landing on film, which had to be flown back to Earth and developed a week later before before we could see what that film looked like. So they're flying to the moon. They have to pick a new landing spot. And there wasn't any particular way of keeping track of the lunar module in navigational terms while it was finding its new place to land. So they settle on the moon. And it's, Both things are silly. It's silly to say they were lost.

We knew they were on the moon. And at the same time, it was sort of silly to imagine that we couldn't figure out where they were, but also it didn't matter, right? The radio worked. The radio up to the command module in orbit worked. They were four miles away from where they had intended to land, and they eventually, they actually figured that out with a lunar orbiting satellite a little later. but it didn't actually matter where they were. And also, part of the issue was that, so like the Sea of Tranquility, we know that that's where they intended to land, that's where they landed, but that's like the size of Manhattan. It's like this huge, so that even when the orbiting module is going around, like NASA says to whoever it was that was in there, sorry, you know, see if you can see them.

But he's trying to scope out an area of the size of Manhattan for the, this tiny, tiny, tiny little vehicle, and he never even sees them orbiting above them. Right. So the Sea of Tranquility is even bigger. The Sea of Tranquility is more like the size of a Great Lake, but the landing area inside it was the size of Manhattan. And then, yes, Michael Collins is up in the command module, orbiting around over his crewmates who are on the surface, and he actually has a telescope. The command module had a telescope for navigation with the stars. It had a telescope and a sextant and paper star charts. And they said to him, every time you go over, we're going to give you some coordinates.

See if you can find them. And he was like, okay, I'm going to program the telescope. I'm going to aim it. I'm imagine as he said, imagine trying to find a large truck on a road in Manhattan when you're 60 miles over and you have exactly two minutes to look down as you go zooming over from 60 miles. So he never, he never even came close. And as like he made whatever, you know, 15 or 12 or 15 passes while they were on the moon, he said the coordinates sort of got more and more random. and I realized that mission control had absolutely no idea where they were. They were just sort of trying this and trying that. And so I did what they asked, but I was pretty sure I was never going to see them through the telescope.

So tell me the story of the real first American flag on the moon. So if you don't know the story of all this stuff, obviously the lander in 1969 is not the first trip to the moon. and there's other trips with probes and things like that. And so in one of those earlier trips, somebody snuck an American flag onto the moon. This is such a wonderful story. I mean, my real goal was to remind people that human beings flew us to the moon. And all human beings are sort of quirky and interesting and entertaining and have, you know, have great stories to tell. And I was sort of amazed when I stumbled into this one. So, right,

the story of Armstrong and Aldrin raising the flag on the moon, that flag, that picture of them was on half the newspaper front pages in the world. That was sort of the iconic moment. Interestingly, it wasn't ever mentioned in that coverage. There was already an actual American flag on the moon. There were a series of unmanned robotic probes that landed on the moon before. Apollo called surveyor. There were seven of them. And the point of surveyor was very simple. Let's put some robots on the moon and see what the surface of the moon is like. Because, again, hard to believe now, but scientists and engineers had no idea what the surface was like. One very distinguished astrophysicist thought that because the moon had been exposed to four billion years

of pummeling by asteroids and meteors large and small, that the surface would be six feet of lunar grit, lunar dust, and that anything that landed would sink immediately, like quicksand. So the goal of surveyor was to sort of test that out. So the surveyor probes were designed and built by Hughes aircraft with the Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena with JPL. And about eight days before the first one was launched, there was apparently this really elaborate, minor conspiracy to put an actual American flag on Surveyor 1. And so the chief scientist for surveyor, Sidney Shallen, went out and bought a flag at a Savon drugstore on Sepulveda Avenue in Los Angeles. I love that. The 1960s version of Walgreens and CVS. It was a flag that you'd

buy for an eight-year-old kid at July 4th with two staples and a wooden stick. remove the staples, remove the stick, then he put the flag in a plastic bag and put it between the pages of an important report that he was carrying into the assembly area. He then handed off the report to technicians who were working directly on. He was the chief scientist, and he handed it off to technicians who were working directly on the final assembly and checkout of the spaceship. one of them washed it very elaborately in solvent and then dried it with nitrogen, sealed it again to prevent any contamination. Then it was taken into the spaceship assembly room, rolled up, you know, in a little, like a little scroll, and slipped in using a needle in the hose screwdriver into one of the hollow structural members of Surveyor 1. Surveyor 1 was launched.

Actually, our early moon probes were a tremendous story of devastating failure. And so the odds, the surveyor scientists themselves thought there was only really a one-and-five chance that Surveyor 1 would land successfully. It not only landed successfully. It was a wild success. It took tens of thousands of pictures, really did great scientific work and good work helping prepare for Apollo. the day after it landed successfully, Shallon held a press conference to announce that he and his colleagues had snuck a flag onto the moon, that the flag had cost 23 cents and had come from Save on drugs. And they were just, you know, they were just delighted. And that story, just three

paragraphs made the front page of every newspaper, you know, in America, of Old Glory Flying High. That was a typical, a typical headline. And oh my goodness. NASA, JPL, and Hughes were so furious. The reason we know about this is that there were all of these investigative memos and scolding warnings about doing this again and so forth and so on. Well, because the reason being, aside from, you know, this is an unauthorized prank, essentially, but also, even though they took great care not to have anything go wrong, like you're potentially introducing something that could contaminate and screw up the craft, basically. That's why NASA and JPL were upset. You don't want people slipping stuff into a spacecraft

that isn't part of the plan. And so both halves of this are completely understandable. The guy doing this was the chief scientist for the mission. So of all the people to slip something unauthorized onto the spaceship, that's a guy who's probably not going to screw up his most important career project to that point. I would trust him. At the same time, you can understand there was a memo written like 10 days before the launch of Surveyor 2, which was literally only three months later. And it went to the distribution of the physical memo in those days was the equivalent of the, you know, all hands distribution of an email. And it basically said, we want to be really clear, don't you dare do anything like this now

and then listed all the future surveyor flights or in any of these flights. So you can understand the management reaction. But it was such a wonderful sort of insurgent little moment, exactly perfect. One story that I think listeners of this show would find especially fascinating, is the whole idea of the computers in these vehicles and these rockets and things like that. As you said, there's probably been many, many books written about this. But, you know, this is at an era when computers that would be required to do the things that these would have to do would be the size of a room. So the fact that NASA took a flyer, as it were, on integrated circuits, was

sort of a risky bet. And so, like, you know, we think that, well, obviously that's the way computing was going to go. But at the time, like, this was really cutting edge and probably a gamble. It was a huge gamble. The computers for the Apollo spacecraft for the command module and the lunar module, they're actually identical. They're about the size of a large briefcase. And as you say at that time, a small computer was the size of three or four commercial refrigerators lined up next to each other. That was a small computer. MIT was given the contract to do the computers and then all of the navigation equipment and also the programs to fly to the moon literally eight

weeks, 10 weeks after Kennedy said, let's go to the moon. The computers were the first Apollo contract even before the spacecraft contracts were issued because NASA knew how hard this was going to be. And for about a year and a half, MIT worked on developing computers using transistors. Transistors were the reliable, bulletproof, settled, relatively inexpensive, cutting-edge technology of the moment. And it just turned out that transistors couldn't do what needed to be done in terms of processing power to get people to the moon. It takes a lot of math to fly a spaceship to the moon, and you've got to do it instantly in real time. And so the head of the hardware development at MIT, a really interesting guy named Eldon Hall,

who almost ended up as a farmer. He sort of managed to get himself into college and then graduate degrees from Harvard almost by accident. Eldon Hall wrote a memo to NASA and said, transistors aren't going to cut it. We want to use this really new technology called integrated circuits, computer chips. There's only two or three suppliers. And by the way, each integrated circuit costs $1,000. But we're going to buy 64 of them. We think they are the correct path.

$1,000 in 1961 was $8,000 or $9,000 now. Imagine buying a single chip that cost $9,000. And by the way, they had six transistors on them. This was hugely risky. The chips were not considered reliable. As I just said, they're really expensive. At that same moment, IBM was developing the IBM 360 series computer, which really broke open business computing in America.

And IBM made the same sort of assessment that NASA did, that MIT did, and they chose not to use computer chips. IBM didn't put computer chips in its computers until 1970, after we had flown to the moon twice. So MIT picks the integrated circuit, and then they literally had to turn around and teach the semiconductor companies, Fairchild and Texas Instruments,

how to make their own products. MIT set up a battery of acceptance tests. They knew that the computers had to work absolutely perfectly for many days in a row. The missions lasted 10 days or more, the Apollo missions. NASA wanted a computer that would work 100 days or 300 days without a failure. That kind of computer chip didn't exist in 1962. So NASA set up a MIT set up a battery of just acceptance tests. We're going to test all these chips before we start using them. There were a dozen tests, You know, vibration, they immersed them in Fri-on to see if they leaked, those kinds of things, shaking.

And if one chip in a lot of a thousand, in order of a thousand, if one ship failed one test, MIT sent the whole lot back and said, these aren't good, send us some new ones. And so, MIT single-handedly did two things. MIT drove the cost of computer chips down from a thousand bucks each by the middle of the decade to $7.50 each. MIT was the only one buying them. And MIT improved the reliability by a factor of a hundred. And so chips that used to be okay for a thousand hours ended up being reliable for 100,000 hours. And so that just transformed, it transformed the. semiconductor industry deep inside and those people will tell you that it did it

also transformed the the reliance the sense about computer chips in industry oh look they're reliable enough to bet the lives of the astronauts on I bet we can use them to run our food factory or run the elevators in our skyscraper if you'll indulge me I want to hit two more before I let you go As you say, you know, the sort of joke is all we really got out of the Moon project was Tang and Velcro. Even though, as you're just pointing out, it also gave us modern computing, but okay, no one's giving credit to them for that.

But it turns out that Tang and Velcro kind of didn't come out of the space program anyway. They just kind of got roped in with it in the public's imagination. It is kind of amazing. In fact, so there's no question that in the popular mind, Tang and Velcro are what's associated with Apollo. You say, you walk up to a sort of an ordinary American and say, what do we, what did we get out of going to the moon? And they'll sort of smile and say, Tang, Velcro? I mean, it's literally, people have said that to me many times since the book came out in the last.

in the last six weeks. Tang actually was invented in 1957 by the same guy who invented Cool Whip. And Pop Rocks. And Pop Rocks as well. Pop Rocks are a wonderful little side story. Pop rocks are a failed effort to make Tang that was carbonated with the carbonation built into the product itself. The same scientist was trying to create something you could add to a glass of water and it would be flavored like Tang but also carbonated like soda. But Tang wasn't a very successful product. And those folks who have sampled it may understand why it wasn't wildly successful. And it was used on some early Mercury and Gemini, I think Gemini flights, and Tang just went crazy

sort of marketing itself as the drink of the astronauts. And so it became associated with them. Then this really important Apollo flight, Apollo 8, the first actual flight to the moon. We navigated the spaceship, the Apollo command module to the moon, orbited 10 times at Christmas 1968 and flew back. Tang sponsored ABC News coverage of the Apollo 8 flight. That was a flight that people were riveted to. It's sort of been swept aside by the actual moon landing in just the way they were riveted to Apollo 11. And the logo of Tang was on the ABC News desk right in front of him. You know, this coverage brought to you by Tang.

So Tang did a very good job of connecting itself to NASA and Apollo so much so that it really made NASA uncomfortable. In fact, the astronauts did not love Tang. The Apollo 11 astronauts, Collins, Armstrong, and Aldrin were sort of given a set of things they could pick from, and they specifically did not pick Tang to take. There's a funny little moment. There's a flag company that thinks that it is the company that made the flags that were flown to the moon and then erected Annen in Company, A-N-N-I-N. And NASA has always refused to reveal what brand of flags it used explaining that they didn't want another tang. And Velcro is sort of a slightly different story.

Velcro, too, existed long before the Moon missions. Velcro was invented, I think, back in like 1947, 1948 in Switzerland. So it wasn't invented for the Moon missions, but Velcro was actually. indispensable to spaceflight and remains indispensable. Zero gravity is really charming for about 15 minutes, and after that it can be really inconvenient if you're trying to get something done, because you set something floating in the air, go do something, come back, and it's not where you left it. So Velcro lets you sort of put your pen, your laptop, your memo, your piece of equipment, your screwdriver, your wrench, put it somewhere and it will stay there. In fact,

there was even Velcro inside the helmets of the Apollo astronauts walking on the moon to give them something to scratch their noses against. Some equipment, like extra equipment, was literally attached to the spacesuits using Velcro. So Velcro was very important, but also not an Apollo spin-off in any way. NASA is so irritated by the all we got from going to the moon was Tang and Velcro that NASA maintains a web page on the official NASA website saying, these are useful products, but they had nothing to do with Apollo in terms of us inventing them. They debunk, they themselves debunk the Tang and Velcro myth.

All right. Last one is sort of just a fascinating data point, really. But Apollo clearly, actually the whole space race, as it were, is the largest peacetime project, certainly this country ever has undertaken. First of all, you point out that at its peak in 1965, more than 410,000 Americans were employed working on the project. At its height, Apollo required more people to work on it than fought in the Vietnam War in those years. And then, like, there's literally tens of thousands of companies. And so you actually, the data point that you have is the actual amount of man hours involved

in just to get the few, like slightly more than 100 days that the astronauts were in space. But just the idea of the scope of this project is so much more immense than we could even conceive of today. Well, and I, you know, that's why for me it was a rich, that's a rich arena to find, to find good stories to tell in, of course. But as you say, it was the biggest peacetime undertaking in the history of humanity, 10 times the scale of the Panama Canal, three times the scale of a Manhattan project, bigger by far than the making of the pyramids. And yes, there were more people working on 11 Apollo missions. back in the US, then we're fighting in Vietnam. It's just sort of an astonishing, almost half a million Americans working on Apollo. But here's what I did. I did something a little crazy. I'm a storyteller, but I love math. I'm a failed mathematician, but I can still do addition, subtraction and long division. And I decided to add up the total number of hours that going to the moon took. And the numbers are sort of astonishing. First, there were a total of 2,500 hours

of Apollo spaceflight. The Apollo spacecraft were in flight, the astronauts were in flight to the moon, walking around or driving around on the moon and flying home for 2,500 hours, about 100 days. That number alone is kind of amazing, that it took us, that there were 100 days of space flights just in the Apollo program alone. So here's the number I came up with. For each hour of Apollo space flight, for each of those 2,500 hours, for each hour of Apollo, a million hours of work was required back on Earth. So what is a million hours of work? A typical American will work 100,000 hours in their entire life, in their entire career. That's 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, 50 years. So a typical American will work 100,000 hours in a career. So a million hours is the entire

work life of 10 people. Each hour of spaceflight required the equivalent work of the entire work lives of 10 people. There's kind of another way. It's almost hard to get your brain around. Imagine Brian being allowed to do something for one hour that 10 people had worked their entire careers to get you ready to do. And then in the second hour, 10 more people had worked their entire careers to get you ready for that second hour and so on through 2,500 hours. That is the level of intensity that going to the moon required. And that is sort of mind boggling. Right. It's also another way you did the math is, for each hour in flight, there's a total of a million hours of work done back on Earth, however many people that worked out to and stuff like that.

You know what? Actually, that's why – let's end by – with this. And it's almost me commenting, but you can comment on my commenting on it. It's almost nostalgic to read all this stuff, especially all of these people, all of these corporations pulling together with – the government to do, the whole nation pulling together to do this one thing. And it occurs to me that, like, in everyone's memory at the time, they had had experience with this, because World War II was within everyone's memory, and even, like, you know, trying to pull the country out of the Great Depression. So this idea that I kind of feel like has been lost, that there are certain times when your country calls you, and all of the country stops what it's doing and rows in the same direction.

You know, like in World War II, like General Motors and Boeing, they shut down their factories and turned them all over to war production and things like that. I'm just curious, like, am I wrong to feel nostalgic about that? Like, do you think that the United States could pool together in a similar way on a similar project and everyone put all their petty jealousies aside and row in the same direction? Well, I think I would say two things. The first is it's important. important not to romanticize this very complicated moment in time. There were dissenters. There were

people who thought going to the moon was not the right use of money and energy. Right. A huge, a huge amount of resources devoted to something that maybe could be devoted to other things. Right. And the further you get into that, the more complicated it gets. We did, we did fix, you know, we did have a huge civil rights movement. We did fix our laws about water. and air pollution and so forth during that same time. But I'll tell you what, I came away incredibly optimistic from spending four years immersed in this. And I'm optimistic because of just what you said. Americans love to be told something's impossible and then make it possible and then do it. We rise to the occasion. If you tell us something's really hard and it might really be

out of reach, we want to show you that it isn't out of reach. That's part of the reason. That's part of of the American character, in fact, and one of the more admirable parts. And so there is no question that, you know, the biggest problem obviously facing us is climate change. Climate change is a good deal more complicated than going to the moon in one sense because it's a social problem. There's not an engineering fix. There's not a science fix. There are engineering and science fixes, but also requires different thinking and a different outlook. But it's easier in a different way, which is when Kennedy said, let's go to the moon, we had no idea how to do it. When he said, let's go to the moon by the end of the decade, even the people in NASA didn't know how they were going to make that happen. There were no tools or equipment to go to the moon.

We actually know how to fix climate change. There's a list of 20 things that if we do them, they will have exactly the impact we want. And so what we really need is leadership. And so there is no question that when Americans are rallied to a cause, when the cause is explained, and when there's a sense that the explanation matches reality, right? There was a reason to go to the moon in the 1960s. We were being challenged around the world in the Cold War. And going to the moon was a symbol of, I mean, not to be cheesy. It was a symbol of the power and imagination.

an innovative capability of democracy and of capitalism. When Kennedy said, let's go to the moon, he said, it's going to require the full speed of freedom. I just love that phrase. And so if we are rallied to a cause, if we are asked to do something, we always rise to the occasion. And so I came away, absolutely, you know,

the people who did this were people just like you and me, Brian. There were totally ordinary people. talked to hundreds of them. They will tell you what we did in the 1960s was extraordinary, but none of us was extraordinary. The mission brought this incredible work and this incredible commitment out of us. And so that just, you can't help but be optimistic when you sort of learn the details of the story and what the challenges were and how they were overcome. And frankly, that's sort of what I was trying to do with the series, with the 50 days to the moon, is to say, here's a little story. Just imagine you're a character in this story and see how these

people sort of overcame what was in front of them to make this happen. Well, listen, that's a beautiful place to add right there. Thank you, Charles, for talking to us about this, but also thank you for collecting all these stories and sharing them with us on this anniversary. My pleasure. Thank you, Brian.