Tech Brew Ride Home - (Portfolio Profile) Argyle

Episode Date: September 24, 2022

Argyle is a BIM to Augmented Reality app for Heavy Construction. More at Argyle.Build Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On April 4th, 2023, around 2 in the morning, a man was found stabbed multiple times on a sidewalk in downtown San Francisco. Hey, who did this to you? What happened next turned the story into a political firestorm. Reports have identified the victim as Bob Lee, the founder of Cash App. From Bloomberg Podcasts, this is Foundering, the Killing of Bob Lee, beginning April 16. Welcome to another portfolio profile episode of the TechMeme Right Home podcast. We're going to talk today about a space that if you're a long-time listener of the show, you know I've sort of been obsessed with.

I've been sharing long reads and links about this space and wondering why it hasn't taken off yet for a while now. Let's go ahead and get right into it by introducing the founder of Argyle, Merritt Thatcher. Merritt, welcome to the TechMeme Right Home. Thank you for having me, Brian. So Merritt, Argyle, just from the name, people can't guess what the space is, but give me the two-minute sort of elevator of what Argyle is or is becoming or is trying to do. Yeah, so Argyle is overlay of building data on a job site. And if you think about that Argyle pattern, diamond overlay, that's where we got the name from. So we convert building information models into an AR-ready format that's lightweight enough to run on even the current headsets that we've got.

And make all of that building data available based on your physical walking location. So as you're building the project, you have reference to the design models, to the self-perform models. All of that spatially, our dream for spatial computing. Today, we are a BIMD-AAR visualizer. Tomorrow, our goal is to become the first spatial project management tool in construction. So the idea is, at least again, with the technology right now, I put on a headset, I'm on a job site, I'm walking through the job site, and sort of the... Describe what BIM is? Building Information model.

Okay. It's both the 3D shape of the model, but it also contains information about its parts. The wall knows how thick it is and what's inside of it, etc. It's the plans. It's what the engineers and the architects have drawn up. So you're on the job site, and that is overlaid on top of what you're seeing as you're walking around a construction site. Correct. That's right.

It's what we do. It's done to save money and time because construction sites. as we will get into later, I'm sure, are incredibly complex places to be. Sure. Well, so how do you come to this startup, to this technology? I assume you come from architecture or construction or what's your background? Sure. Well, I'm here, but Logan, my CTO is not. I'll introduce him first. He was a building architect. He's a building scientist. He's a math nerd. And we started Argyle, or so we started actually studio before Argyle. When he got laid off from his architecture job, I was a lawyer at the time.

And I just saw this space, maybe like an early fan like you, and I said, man, somebody's going to put these building models onto a job site someday. So we started this studio in 2017. We did a bunch of visualization type of work. We did interactive showrooms and a bunch of things for architects. But where we decided to product down was this overlay piece when we realized how much time, money, effort, material waste we could prevent by seeing the design on the site. Of course, there are a lot of challenges to that. So I guess a little bit about me. I'm a third generation construction contractor who became a lawyer to help out the family businesses in this lawyer, way. And then after years of that became an estate planning lawyer. And critical to this story is I sat in

earshot of another lawyer who advised startups. And I got to tell you what, wills and trusts look very same from client to client from person to person. And so my brain would be half in my own work and like listening to advice from this other lawyer to these startups. And I noticed jealousy. You have to pay attention to jealousy. So within about a year, that's when I decided, no, I got to do something in this space. I see AR and VR being the big wave of the future. And that's when Logan got laid off.

And I was like, hey, you want to be my AR guy? So that's how that started. At this studio, we tried some building information modeling, the BIM to AR solutions, probably around 2018, 2019. We had a base of existing clients and customers who, you know, they tried the VR thing, and then the HoloLens was getting just a little bit more popular. And they were like, hey, can we try this same experience we're doing in VR, but get it on the actual site?

And so we're like, hey, let's give it a shot. We tried some early products and we were so disappointed and it was so not what our customers wanted or needed. Um, they, the, first of all, the amount of model content that you could put into one of these devices was extremely limited. So you could get a room or two. Uh, but the file sizes were huge, just huge. And it's impossible to run that on a HoloLens while it's impossible to run that on a HoloLens while it's processing the world around it. The next piece of that that was so difficult was when you get in there,

the model was blocking your view of the job site. It was kind of like VR, but it was meant to be AR. And so you couldn't really walk around the site. You didn't have a sense of movement, which was fine because you could only get like one room and one view anyway. It was this, it was like a giant disappointment, both for the customers and for us, And it got us thinking that if we could solve this problem, both with the model content size and with the fact that models tend to drift around the room in using traditional computer vision,

if we could solve for that, we would have the backbone of spatial computing and of spatial project management. Not just a visualizer, but something where you, that your human computer interact, is with a hologram where you can get additional information by clicking on a building element and you could record and report back what you've done simply by walking the site and having that scanned as you as you move. So that was our big vision. We wanted spatial computing and what was given to us was an incredibly limited visualizer. So we did some of our own prototyping on this before we started Argyle and then when we got a successful round where we were checking the concrete embeds before you pour the concrete, I mean, I don't know, listeners might not realize it's not easy to move something once the concrete's been poured and it's hundreds of thousands of dollars of cost to fix something.

Errors like that happen on construction all the time and you sit in these buildings that are more or less fine and perfect. but the process of getting there was one full of what we in the industry call rework. So that was our big vision. That was it. So, and I will, we're going to have to, I'm going to use layman's terms because, you know, even though my wife's an architect, I'm, I have to assume that the audience knows about as much as I do. And by the way, I want to mention at this point, if you want to see kind of some of this stuff in action. Their website is Argyle.B-A-R-G-Y-L-E. So you can get a sense from some videos of what it feels like to walk through a job site. So the first base use case here is, as you're describing, you go to a job site and you say,

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, the jam on this door is three inches over than it should be, or this window is not in the right place. or the plan, it's off the plans because you're in the space and because now with the modern headsets, not only are you able to bring the plans with you, but you're allowed with the, you're able with the outwards facing cameras to overlay those plans and see in real time and in the real world, shit's not right here. Correct. And that saves a ton of money if you're doing that in real time.

as opposed to coming back later and surveying and measuring and things like that and realizing. Or the next trade comes in. So let's say your plumbing guy installs something and then you have the mechanical gal show up and she's like, I'm supposed to be here, but you're there. So you can see trades overlapping one another as well. You can see how your work will impact another. And because, you know, obviously I've seen some demos with you all that there's also the ability to someone can be on site and then someone back in the office sitting in front of a computer with the plans and stuff. So you could have someone be like, hey, Merritt, I think that this is wrong. I'm going to put on my headset, do you see what's happening here and you can be back in the office and you can be like, yeah, that's right or wrong, or yeah, we can adjust that? Or like, so it's, it sort of allows sort of you to be virtually anywhere in terms of managing a job site?

It's, yeah, it's kind of a remote work tool. We didn't think of it that way initially, but for sure, it's become one. A lot of that coordination can happen instantaneously. And by that, I mean, while you're in, in process saying, hey, the thing you designed clashes with existing conditions that maybe weren't modeled, that the designer, the person who's running the model can make a change in the model, click that change up to the cloud, and it's on the device within that same conversation. And so, again, maybe the people in the room on the job site could see the change happen in real

time and implement the change because they put on the goggles, okay, I see what we need to do. thanks. You don't have to go to the job site and, you know, explain everything. Like, it can be as instantaneous as, here, watch this and then change can happen. Correct. And, and, again, I can't remember how, how, what sort of demos are on the website. But in the demos that I've seen, like, it is, like, if people are familiar with VR, sort of the, the way VR works, like, so with the hand tracking and stuff. Like, you can be, you know, walking through a room and you pull up your hands and you bring up a menu. And it's like, okay, I want to switch from this plan to that plan and I want to overlay this versus that. So again, it has a really robust when you say, what was the term

not computing in the real world? What was the term you used? Spatial computing and human computer interaction. Yeah, yeah, right. So it's not exactly sort of the, what's the Tom Cruise movie, where he Minority report. It's not exactly minority report, but in, in physical terms, today, it's as close to that as you can get because you're walking through the space and it's like, okay, I'm going to bring this plan over and adjust this one and sort of. And so like you're there making the decisions and making the design decisions that can be implemented right in real time. And again, without having to do the back and forth between the studio and the office and the site. Correct. Yeah. And a lot of these, a lot of these job sites will have absolutely no internet bandwidth. They're low infrastructure. And so we're doing that on mobile hotspots. So part of the genius and what we're so proud of at Artegile is we made the models small enough to run anywhere. If any architects are listening, just opening up your model at the beginning of the day,

sometimes takes a good 20 minutes. They're huge. And we made something that it's not where you can edit your model, but it's where you can view your model in just a few seconds. And that model is overlaid precisely where it should be on site. And that's really the other piece is our patented alignment technology. So we just received our patent last day of August, got issued, and we're so excited because we can talk a little bit more freely about it.

But it's essentially, it's called RISA, resilient, interdependent spatial alignment. And what it allows is for this AR experience to be persistent over multiple sessions. You can show up later that week and you can still have your plans aligned to the site. And it's resilient because job sites change. And if you know anything about how these devices like a HoloLens are finding themselves in space, it's computer vision. Well, what happens when the palette of materials gets moved and you build a wall and you install that mechanical?

Our software uses existing cues to inform broken anchors. So that's how we are able to do a large portion of the building without any drift. And if you get drift, it's super easy to correct within the interface. And again, I'm going to ask this question, not knowing the right question to ask. I know I know AutoCAD, I know Revit, but the question is I'm assuming that right now you can interface with all of the software platforms and tools that folks are used to using right now?

I wouldn't say all of them yet. We are still in early page company. The best ones. Yes. So our MVP was Revit and we are now putting the same type of parsing and that file compression style onto NavisWorks is our very next. one. That said, we do get requests for, I will call them specialty data types. And the question tends to be, can I just use your alignment software? We're not, we don't have that in an API quite

yet, but it's interesting that we're starting to get other augmented reality developer types and owners, I would say like big brands in the Metaverse who are like, hey, we have an experience. We just can't get it to sit on our building. It wants to walk around everywhere. And what are the headsets before we get into what you feel about the AR space as it exists now? Like, what does, you mentioned HoloLens. If I wanted to use this on a job site right now, what can I use it on? You can use it on a HoloLens. You can, like, very shortly, maybe by the time your folks are listening to this, get it on their iPads or iPhones. less immersive, but it gives you a window to the world. And then very soon we will be on Magic Leap too.

And we are considering some other devices as well. But there's quite a few now that are great. They're high quality. The holograms are bold and shiny. The HoloLens itself is where we started, but it's a three-year-old device at least. And so it's really exciting to get this on new platforms. Well, that's a good segue to the reason I said at the top that, you know, listeners will know that I've talked about this all the time is that two things on construction sites and job sites that I'm like, how come this isn't ubiquitous? Yes, is drones, you know, the ability to always fly drones up and get right up there with cameras instead of having people climb up there and stuff like that.

And then AR stuff like this, right? It seems very obvious to me that this is where things are going to go. To whatever degree you want to talk about it, where are we in the state of AR entering the real world in this way? Are we on the cusp of it? Are we behind where you thought we would be? You said at the beginning that this is why you wanted to start the company, because it's obvious to you, like it's obvious to me. So why is it not ubiquitous already, is I guess my question? Oh, gosh.

I think a lot of that is the limitations of early BIM to AR experiences and solutions. So the limitations being very little of my model is here. This experience doesn't stay until the next time. I got to put QR codes up everywhere. and when I turn my head, I'm getting all this drift. So it's not, in the past, I would say up until Argyle, it's been a cool way to see your site. It might help you get layout or have some communication,

but construction is a process. And if you can't really make something part of your process, because it's so difficult to set up, it's not going to be there. And this question is so funny about like, are we, are we, Are we there yet or are we not? I go back and forth weekly. It's like, am I on the cusp of this? And I'm back there right now.

So we just went to this conference and we had so many people tell us they were ready to implement this on their projects that they have starting right up and can we have their cards more than I expected. And certainly we're going to need help on these because we're going to have customer service and sales at a stage that I thought we'd be in maybe six, 12 months from now. I'm seeing the seeds of that now. And I think it's just kind of that wave of construction, how that happens. Another piece to this is the infrastructure and the chips bills. There's so much construction work that 90% of contractors are having difficulty staffing. So they are looking at ways to attract, on board, and upskill new people to the projects.

And in construction, you know, it's so specialized. Yeah, you'll have a general laborer, but there are people who specialize just in fire protection systems, just in these mechanical systems, just in these electrical systems. Absolutely no one on site knows what anyone else is doing. And so having a visual tool like this for the project manager, for the supers, it becomes incredibly compelling. So, okay, we originally said this is a great tool to save screw-ups, which can cost a ton of money. This is a great tool for doing remote project management, which can save money and time, and time is money. And now you're also saying that this is also a labor-saving thing as well in terms of, you know, if sites are having a hard time,

finding hands to do the work. Like, this is something that can make existing labor more efficient, et cetera? I mean, absolutely. I don't want to say it does everything, but it's all based on that visualization piece. If you see it, you're able to comprehend it in this new way. The way construction is done today is with 2D plans. They really are just looking at their 2D plans. And those are great legal documents.

You know, that's kind of what they're there for is to make sure you're complying to a set of documents, but they're not great for helping people understand what's happening on a site. So one of the quotes I've been using in my pitches was from a guy named Eric who does quality control. And the thing about quality control and construction is they will see the job that they, you know, oftentimes the person who's like doing the inspection for quality control is the same guy who installed it a little earlier that day. And they're like, oh, yeah, that looks good. I installed it correctly. But when you put on a device like Argyle,

put on software like Argyle, you're able to see clearly discrepancies that you wouldn't have seen if you're just laying at the plans. And so the quote from Eric is, hand a first year kid out of college, Argyle. 30 minutes later, they're back with a QA report. This job that took a specialized person to do

and that person kept making mistakes because they kept making the same human error as when they installed it, as when they inspected it, is now able to be accomplished by somebody with pretty little project knowledge simply by observing the locations of the holograms versus the locations of the install. That can also be done before install. So trying to figure out the layout of a complex mechanical system. I have one new, you know, potential customer in the pipeline who says he's got 300 pipe installers on this project. 300. And to manage them all and have a visual component to do that is going to be incredibly helpful.

And also, we're talking about right now, which is also the segue and track. transition I was thinking of. But if you're to believe what I report on the show every day, we're on the cusp of Apple getting into the space in a big way. Samsung, whatever meta is going to do. So there's snap. The point is, is, in theory, if you believe Silicon Valley hype, which sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. We're on the verge of AR happening. And people like to put it into the metaverse is coming. AR is going to happen before the metaverse and before VR.

And so what are you thinking of in terms of if there's Apple. Apple apparently is not going to name them eyeglasses, which is such a miss to me. If there's Apple glasses and there's four or five different competitors, and they're getting smaller every year, and they're getting cheaper every year, what are your thoughts in terms of this AR space and what that would mean for what you want to do? Yeah. Right now, we're selling to project managers. That future you're talking about, I get every laborer on site involved. I don't see why this is going to be any different from their, you know, their pro-core. That's their project management tool, a lot of folks use, where everyone on site gets access to the information that they're authorized to see.

And that information is now spatially located on the job site. And that's always been the goal is to have everyone being able to answer their own question. to have sort of an internet of the job site. I mean, that's a little bit of a silly term. But it's not. You can search specific data in your specific location, and it appears there because you are there, and it knows where you are.

That's what our technology does. And so in the same way that we can expect that any laborer on a job site has a smartphone in their pocket, maybe by the end of this decade, we can assume that any laborer, even if it's not there, if it's company assigned or whatever, might have a headset that would be actionable and usable on a job site. Sure. Yeah. I mean, even with their cell phones in their pocket, I am making that play right now. Right, with the iPad. I want them to have the window. Yes,

exactly. The iPad and the iOS and the smartphone window thing. All right. So, Merritt, I, so first of all, again, if anybody is interested in this, and I mean, if, anybody that wants a demo that wants to see if this is something that they could use tomorrow. It's argile.billed. There will be a link in the show notes. But also, the round is not closed yet. No. Yes.

So if there was anybody listening that wanted to participate in this round, what would you say to them? I would say yes, yes. Come join us. We are early stage, but we have the technology, we have an actual working product, and we had to build it up to this stage where we can get it onto projects, which is where we're at now. We're onboarding our first paid customers that we don't know from anybody. So it's a really exciting time to get involved.

We are looking for folks in and out of the building industry. We are looking for folks who are excited about augmented reality. I want to say if anyone knows about how to align things to an environment, that's what we do very well. That's our very special secret sauce. That's our patent is environmental alignment. So if you think about big data and a big space, that's where we come in. And we're focusing our first product right here on this construction piece.

But we see ourselves as part of the fundamental enabling technologies for the metaverse, such that the metaverse is in real space, is in AR. Some people think that the metaverse and reality, it's going to be indistinguishable. I think we talked about that in some degree last week. I was listening to that. Yes, yes, yes. All right, Merritt, thank you so much. Again, if anybody wants to find out more Argyle.bill or get in touch with me or I'll put

contact info for Argyle and the show notes. Thank you so much for sharing this. And thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to hopefully bring to life something that I'm like, like you, why has this not happened yet? Right? Yes. Thank you. I mean, I appreciate it.

And thanks to the listeners.