Test Match Special - #40from40: Al Murray

Episode Date: September 3, 2020

Award-winning comedian Al Murray - creator of the The Pub Landlord - joins Jonathan Agnew for a memorable interview in 2014.

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Well, for this episode, we're going back to 2014 and the Adjiaz Bowl in Southampton. Ingram were playing India in a test match that saw welcome runs for Alistair Cook, big centuries for Ian Bell and Gary Ballance, and also six wickets in the second innings for Mowin Allen. In our makeshift country box in the half-built hotel, we welcome into one of Britain's best-loved comedians, the pub landlord himself, Al Murray. Winner of the prestigious Perrier Award of the Edinburgh Festival,

Al's appeared on stage and screen across the world for the last two decades. When he arrived in Southampton, he was perhaps a little wary of showing his face at the test match, having been the entertainment at a dinner for England ahead of the disastrous Ashes Tour the previous winter. Well, I'll put my hand up right now. It was I. an inspiration in the style of the pub landlord i gave the england team an inspirational speech she did it that way

right yeah uh at lords at lords at the pcia dinner and uh saw them on their way and uh put them on the steamship wherever they get there these days and uh sadly from then on disaster so it's not alister cook it's it is i i'm happy to take i'm i'm happy to put my hand up at least someone around here well well high time i said they enjoy it where we did it go down well they seem they seem to all in the right places and everything and i did a i did a long i did a sort of briefing document uh well the pub landlord gave them a briefing on how to behave in australia and what to expect from australians and and uh and how the australian was a was a a weak figure who would crumble under pressure and uh and uh i see you've got that the wrong ground right my confidence was quite high then

too i was quite a quite a cheerful do was it was a fantastically cheerful do and the the spirits were high and the new faces in the team as well going out on the bigger squad and it looked very exciting and we were full of the prospects of the summer of maybe repeating itself and everyone admitting that there'd been a couple of tough test matches over the summer

but you know we were out to Australia to do our damnedist and it's my fault I took the wheels off I undid the nuts on the wheels the wheels came off because of me and you know that's what we need is someone to take responsibility I'm happy to do it I guess

it must have been As a cricket lover, though, I mean, a big gig for you. When you go out there, you play all these audiences all the times at theatres. But actually, you get a bit out of your comfort zone. You do something like this. Oh, good Lord. It's so nerve-wracking. And the other thing is, you know, Swanee spoke at that thing as well at that same lunch.

And, you know, so you've got the view from the dressing room. And he's a very confident speaker. And you do feel like an interloper. You feel like the sort of, you know, you're a fan. of the thing but then you come in and try and crack jokes and maybe you've got them slightly wrong and maybe there was one about Kevin Peterson's BlackBerry that didn't go as well as I expected did. Did you get one in it? Yeah of course it did. You can't. The thing is you're in that situation. There's absolutely no way you don't address that. Yeah. But it went to, that one,

well that one didn't either bounce nor span, put it that way. I don't have thought other people might have laughed at it. Well I think, depending on what you said of course. But I can remember exactly what it was, but it was something to do. with messages on a blackberry and the simple thing is there is that business of people being seen to laugh at that joke and maybe they want to and they can't show

that they're finding that funny at the moment because that's still to be dealt with and of course KP was there so you know I suppose we admire if we're taking it on that particular topic yeah but you know it's there the thing is is you

you know you can't as a comic when you're in that situation you can't pretend that didn't happen You can't ignore it. You've got to go in and at least try and address it. And if you get it wrong, so what? So be it. At least you had a go.

It's quite a good example, though, of comedy actually being funny when it's at someone else. Oh, yeah. But actually, when it's you, it's pretty raw, can't it? Well, yes, exactly. And there is that, there is that business of, you know, when you say it, when the guy's in the room, it takes on a different text. Yes, it's not even having to go to a politician who isn't anywhere near you. And he's a lot bigger than me. KB

actually that was I mean we're talking about this early because I brought my daughter and it's her first test match and I'm getting it and she's perfect name Willow what a lovely name exactly spot on

and she's being properly indoctrinated now and learning the ways of test cricket and all this sort of thing and she said it earlier on she's nice isn't it it's nice and slow and I don't have to concentrate

the whole time and I can take it as it comes but it is beautiful and this is part of the game I mean what's your cricketing background well I went to I went to Bedford School, which is of course where Alastair Cook

came from. Just a year or two before him, possibly. A decade or two before him. And I really wanted, I love summer sports. Rugby, I can appreciate rugby now, I don't have to play it, but it does not, it never held much appeal

essentially that business of fighting over a ball while, and we had a very angry Welsh man who stood on the tri-line shouting at us. So I, I, it's the summer sports for me. And I love playing tennis. I love watching tennis. I love cricket. But when I was at school, it was a very sporty school. If you didn't show immediate ability, you never got in a net. So we played a lot of, a lot of that kind of cricket where you have a box

with the pads and the bats and the stumps in it that you'd drag around and take turns to carry and someone would score. And we played that kind of cricket. And I fancied myself as a batsman and a bit of a spin bowler, but never really displayed the required or requisite talent to receive any coaching. Not none at all. No, none at all. That's a bit sad. That must have a third or fourth 11.

Well, no, I think there was a fifth 11. We had a music teacher who used to umpire the cricket. And I remember umpire cricket frequently. And he was a real cricket fan. And I remember one time bowling and over where the third, I got a hat trick, but the third ball was such a ludicrous delivery. he disallowed the wicket.

And then I thought, well, this is no good. That's not fair. Well, of course it's not fair, but is life fair, I guess. I mean, there was no DRS at this point. There was a music teacher. The only way he could have disallowed it was if you build a no ball, because you can get out of a wide, and if you hit it, it's not a wide.

Yeah, I know. So you were robbed? I was robbed. I was robbed probably of a promising start, and there you go. That was the moment. Exactly. That was the moment. And it was my dream, my tiny dream was. crushed than in there.

That's quite sad, actually, isn't it? It's very sad. So have you lived in Alastair Cook's footsteps ever since then? Have you been aware of him, I guess? Well, I'm entirely aware of him, because the other thing is that I grew up in a village

called Stucley, which is where Alistair Cook is from. Indeed. Or is settled. And it's a source of enormous relief because until his cricketing career blossomed and he became Stucley's favoured son,

it was me having to do fundraisers at the village hall. and being pestered in the pub. Open in the village fate. Yeah. Well, I've done two fundraising gigs in the village hall to raise money from the village hall. And now I don't have to do any of that anymore.

And I can go see my parents without, you know, without the nudging and the pointing. It's quite nice. So thank God for Alistair Cook. Yeah, yeah. He does like village life. I mean, you're a village life person, presumably. Well, no, I'm moved to the city now.

Because that's where the comedy clubs were when I want to start out. So I'm a London guy now. But, yeah, he's taken a lot of heat off me there. So just as I'm prepared to take responsibility for the recent run of form, he can help me out in Stukely. You must have been watching pretty intently the last couple of months then, have you? God, yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't envy. Especially we do have that sort of a bit of an attachment to something.

You feel that little bit of, and he spells his name, Alistair right, like I do. You feel that slight, you do feel that sort of slight connection. And the pressure that probably, comes with the modern world and social media which is the thing I'm very much engaged with is it's it's a sometimes you think I mean obviously he can't go there's no way he could be going on Twitter on a regular basis because if he he doesn't go on well he's very wise you drive himself insane I mean it's and it the it seems very brutal and I think when you're in that position where you're maybe your

form's gone and and you're under that captain captain pressure yes it must be very hard. Of course, no one was banging about his captaincy when he was winning, because nothing succeeds like success, does it? How do you cope with all that? Because it has been very noisy, to use of a Twitterish word, these last couple of months, with so much dissatisfaction, politics, decisions and so on. And there are a large number of disaffected people, should we say. So it has been a very hostile environment if you've been involved in cricket and social media. Do you enjoy it? Why, you made the point of engaging with it? Yeah, you're riding in the rapids, aren't you? That's part of the sport of it. And I do, I do like occasionally

engaging with the people who crop up who are fools. And, you know, although there is that thing you shouldn't argue with the fools that only draw you down to their level. I mean, I thought yesterday was very, very telling when, when, when, uh, when, uh, cook was scoring runs, how much the, the, the crowd here were behind him. Yes. And, and the one of the thing, I think one of the problems with, with, with, with Twitter is it's easy to report, because there it is in black and white, you can quote five juicy tweets that say he's no good, but that's five people and however many thousands of people there are here cheering him on. And the thing we all want is him to score runs. No one doesn't want him to score runs, do they? I mean,

it's absurd to get behind the idea of him, not of him being out of form. It's a peculiar thing to want. So I think sometimes social media can be beguiling because it offers you things in, that look like, they're almost in print. And if, if, if you, if you want to report them, they're there and there. You can't report people applauding or, or a warm feeling in an arena. Anywhere, anywhere near as, uh, juicely as you can say, you know, they're all like I've got the hashtag cook must go is busy today, you know, it's a nonsense. Yeah. It's the hostility that gets me.

Yeah. I mean, in your game, and, and especially a comment, I mean, are you a very confident comic? I mean, I guess, I'm bristling with confidence. But a lot of comics, I've made. They aren't. They're actually quite shy, and if someone says something nasty to them, they don't like it very much. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe that's their way of, maybe that's their defense mechanism. I mean, I always think, I think, I mean, I've been doing, I've been a stand-up comic for a very long time, and I've been doing the pub landlord now for 20 years. If people don't like it, that's for me to get over, really. It doesn't matter. And the thing you learn, I think, as you go into any aspect, I mean, a broadcasting career, too, you realize that some people aren't going to like it. Sure. And that's fine. You know, they don't have to. There's no, there's no.

no element of compulsion. There's no, exactly. You like it or not, yeah. Whereas, you know, there aren't, I mean, there aren't statistics in stand-up comedy like there are that stood at the crease, you know, I don't have an average. I have some fairly average jokes. I was going to say that. I thought I'd beat you to it. But I don't, you know, there's no, you know, three years ago the laugh rate was higher, maybe. I mean, I don't know.

Perhaps best not to know. Please could people not contact me via Twitter about that. So do you like your stats? I mean, is that part of... If you've only played cricket to a humble level, what is it about the game now that you... Oh, the drama. The drama.

These guys stood at the crease, are gladiators. There's people hurling balls at them with potential lethal force. They're living right on the edge of their nerves. They're athletic. They're living on their reflexes. It's the most fantastic vital sport. And I get into this terrible thing where people... Oh, quick, it's boring.

And you think, all right, then let someone throw a ball at 84 miles an hour at you, and you flick it away with your wrists past third man. And, you know, come on then, let's see it. And the sheer athleticism and the focus and the concentration. I mean, you know, if you're in all day, what does that require of someone's effort and their concentration and their skills and their, you know. And come out next day and don't keep going. Shutting out, have I paid that gas bill

and all that other chatter in your brain, you know, and I think it's the most extraordinary thing and beautiful. And when you see, and the other thing I love about cricket is that it's peculiar blend of the individual and the team and that, you know, that football, I thought what was really interesting in the World Cup is we had a lot of commentary about individual players

and teams marked by their individual star players. And then the Germans fielded a team and won the thing rather than a team built around a star player. And cricket does that peculiar fluctuation between the team operating as a functioning organism and then a very individual thing too. So bowlers can be extremely individual and batsmen can be extremely individual. And I find that absolutely fascinating.

And there's an element of dueling as well, you know, as the ball comes down. It's like guys with pistols facing each other off. And I think that's... It's a sport within a sport, actually, isn't it? All the subplots. That's what makes it certainly intriguing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it goes on all day.

And if you're a writer trying to put off actually having to write anything like I am very often in the run-up to the Edinburgh Festival at the test matches of, you know, you could decide not to write today. I'll think, oh, this session's good. So you're there with the... Put the laptop there.

Put the laptop there. Oh, yeah, very much so. Yeah, that's lovely. And tests particularly, do it, do it for you? Well, yeah, but this is... But the test in its long form, you know, the long form of the game is the sort of... It's where it's really at.

I mean, 2020's exciting, and one-day cricket's good fun. But this is, you know, it's a one-night stand versus a love affair, or a lengthy seduction. And the test match is your lengthy seduction. It's a story told and laid out before you, a five-act play. Often a tragedy. That keeps shifting.

It has been recently. But Willow, I mean, how old's Willow? Willow's 11. So she's coming into the right at the top end? Well, yeah, and she got hooked. it's quite a recent this is quite a recent development actually she's really into her netball

and plays a lot of netball and really loves it but the other day I was picking her up to take her over to her mums and moaning alley had been in all day and Jimmy Anderson had just come in and I said can we watch five minutes of this please before I run you over to your mum's

because there's only going to be five minutes let's to be honest now and then of course we went to the penultimate ball and that was the tragedy that was the tragedy there it is if anyone says oh quick it's boring there it

that's that's it laid bare and she she figures it out very quickly oh great he's left the ball brilliant keep leaving it

Jimmy Jimmy keep leaving the ball oh no he's he's on strike again oh god help us and all this

sort of thing and she got completely drawn in so we're we're following that up today by coming that's lovely seeing it

and sitting in the sunshine and I brought some friends and she's tutting her just drinking lager before lunch but there we are but that

that moment that stand that the theatre Absolutely. The theatre of that is what's got through. Absolutely. And the bit, you know, in that gladatorial business of the ball coming down at 80 miles an hour and the guy living on his reflexes. And then, of course, and then of his triumphant innings the other day, you know, which was just, just extraordinary. But just the point, though, isn't, I mean, and I know it's a subject that our listeners really feel very strongly about. And I do too, about the question of television, free to wear. I mean, you were talking about this yesterday, or someone was talking about this yesterday on TMS that it used to be millions of people would, would, would, would, would. watch the cricket all day on BBC 2 or whatever, and that's gone, and that's so social media stepped in as the pressure valve or the pressure cooker. I don't know. It would be, it would be nice.

It would be nice if we could, but there we are. I can segue. The world changes. What can we do? Well, that world tradition. Oh, you see you're doing it for me. I was going to take you now into the pub. Oh, yes. Where did this chap come from? Well, he was an accident. I was in Edinburgh in 94 with Harry Hill, who's an old friend of mine. We had a show called pub. International and we did this it was only one bit at the end with a film and then a band called the pub band which was myself and him and a friend of us

and we didn't have a way of gluing the show together I tried to write another action it hadn't worked and so the night we opened and we were in the Pleasance Cabaret bar in Edinburgh the night we opened I said how about I say that the comp air hasn't shown up and the bar managers offered to fill in and Harry

saw and yeah whatever I don't care you know because he was more worried about his bit and I went on and started talking talking in that... ...talk like that! And it worked, and it was the most peculiar thing. And then he went on and did half an hour, and I sat down and wrote the first things that came into my head, went back on and did a bit more.

And we got to the end of that, Edinburgh, and picked up what was a Perrier nomination back in those days, which was very encouraging. Then we went on a 70-date tour, and by the end of the tour, because we'd had to put an interview in the show, so the time stretched, I had an act by the end of it. And it became quite clear to me quite quickly that it was a bottom- pit because it's an attitude, you can feed subjects into it, and they tend to come out the other end funny with any luck. Yeah. Well, they do, come on. It's been a huge, it's been a massive success. Yes, it's been, I'm still pinching myself. And the, and the, and the, because it was an

accident, because I never figured it out. I think that's partly why it sort of worked, and I never gave him a name, and I never named the pub. Yeah, yeah, he hasn't a name, has it? No, no, because the idea is, it's raining and you go in a pub to get out the rain and this, and the bloke behind the bar starts on you because you're the only person there and it's since turned into something else and in this year's show he's he's he's actually trying to form a government with the audience in the in the room in order to save great Britain from itself with a common sense revolution which may have a great deal of nonsense but um yeah it luckily it keeps it keeps it keeps it keeps going because it's an attitude rather than a strict set of rules and do those people in the front row

do they book do they know they're going to be sitting in their front row? Do you sort of, you know, you book those particular things? Yeah, we get people book, you know, and again, this is, I know this is, I know this now. I used to suspect it, but I know it now from social media. You get people going, oh, yeah, you know, booked front row, you know, bed not. And then they tell me, my brother-in-law, Jeff, he's the fat bloke who works for whoever, who'll be sat next to me, and it's his birthday. That's quite useful.

Well, yeah, although it can't be spontaneous if it's not spontaneous, which is my kind of, if you know a bit too much, it can feel cooked. And it's always better when it's, when the, when they're talking to the front row is really happening for real. But that's what I admire you, you say, because someone like me, for I'm honestly, very cautious scripts. Yeah. You know, that's my sort of world in delivering a, not commentating, obviously, not this program, but speaking. Yeah. You know, meticulous note. Well, you know, I've got my notes here.

Yeah. That's brave what you're doing. Yeah, but it's just practice, to be honest. I mean, there was a, there was a, there was a, when I first started doing the circuit, there was a period of four or five years where I was doing 400 gigs a year. and you end up, you end up, you turn a lot of it into reflexes. And also there's that thing of allowing the space in the, when you're talking about it, it's allowing the time and the gap to, it's very hard to explain how it works, but you kind of give space for it to work and you ask leading questions

and you get answers and then you can extend them and because it's a mindset as well. You just, you use, I use the pub landlord logic on a thing someone says. and turn it the way I want it to go. So you are the leading questions that take you to what to your stuff, yeah. Yeah, and he's very, he's, he doesn't believe a word anyone says to him, and he's disparaging about everything and reduces everything down to sort of very basic. Yes, you must have had, see, my pub landlord, a lovely chap. Yeah.

You know, he's not like that at all. Very gentle, very hospitable. You had a bad experience somewhere or something? Well, a man did once come out in the audience a very long time ago and grabbed me by, my tie, and then the moment of being on stage, I think, got too much for him, and he went and sat down again. So, um, nothing, nothing particularly... No. I mean, I'm going to touch the wood. No, no, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Have you based this on somebody that you... No, no, no. Although there's a guy in Hammersmith who's convinced

it's him, but it isn't him. No, no, I never, I never really based it on it. Although there's a little bit of a friend of mine in it who got, who got digested and, and, uh, and, and sort of, uh, spewed back in pub landlord form but I can't say that about Big Dave on the radio because it would do his head in and the spontaneous bit

I'm going to going back to the comparison with you Mr. Mr. Carefully meticulous and notes I get a bit bored doing too many therefore in a row as it was whereas the excitement for you presumably well yeah I mean in a in a

theatre show I do which is sort of about an hour and then a second half of about 45, 50 minutes roughly the first half hour is pretty much improvised so I get different people in different combinations and there's things you're looking for because you need to reintegrate them later

to make other points but there's things you're looking for and people that you find but then the rest is just whatever's in front of me and very often you get really peculiar combinations I mean there was a guy found once whose job was weighing dog dirt

to check the year or the bins are being used properly and of course the pub landlord got very upset because he weighs it in metric not an imperial. So that won't happen again. And then there was a fantastic night in Dartford or somewhere where there were sat next to each other was an undertaker and a bloke removed asbestos for a living.

So then you're immediately into, well, can I have the undertaker's business card, give it to the asbestos guy, whatever you do, don't try and cremate him, it won't work, all that sort of stuff. And that won't happen again. And that's the really good fun bit. Of course.

The first half hour is always different. You draw them together. Yeah, yeah, and you try and draw them together, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And that's the other, that's the other bit, sometimes it really doesn't work, and, and then you've got to think. So, and if you're making yourself think, then it stays interesting. Yeah, tradition is key, isn't it? Yeah. Are you more, actually, deep, deep down, actually, rather more traditional than you'd like people to think you are?

I mean, the public school, boarding school background. Yeah, but yes. You like your cricket. Oh, well, yeah, maybe, yes and no. I mean, you don't look traditional. No, no, no, I haven't dressed, I mean, I didn't wear the Panama hat, like the gentleman on the train next to me on the way down, who woke himself snoring. That's quite fantastic. You knew he was coming to me. Work up everyone else in the train. Well, no, I think I come from a fairly, yes, a fairly, I suppose, what you'd call a kind of traditional background, but you go into stand-up comedy and you take a fairly circuitous route away from a lot of tradition. I don't think my, I don't think my parents for a minute expect.

me to work in rooms above pubs for such a long time and in such a you know the way my education was going didn't lead me to where I where I've ended up at all which is

which is sort of fun really I mean it's nice to do something different isn't it yeah of course it is like us like watching this here we are you this couldn't be any better could it sorry about this question of I was reading an article about you about this question of have you written a book about it about watching the war films with his with his dad

Now, that's an extraordinary thing. What is it about this? Well, my father... Well, yes. My father, my father was a soldier in the 50s. It did his National Service, and then went into the TA. And I grew up around this kind of... And he was a parachutist.

So I would go and watch him parachutes at the weekend, which when you're four, gives you this kind of feeling of a faintly super heroic father. It did to me anyway, you know. And then, as I... as we grew up, he would, if a war film came on the teller, if he took me to see a war film, he wouldn't be able to help himself, and he'd pick them apart. And unfortunately, I've inherited this. And the book came about because I was watching a bridge too far, which is a film I

absolutely love, and it's about the Battle of Arnhem, which is an extraordinary story. It's a huge film, an enormous film, three-hour epic and a million extras and all the sort of stuff. And it really is fantastic. But there's a point in the movie where Colonel Frost's men, which is Anthony Hopkins, are on the bridge at Arnhem. and a tank comes over the bridge and they can't stop it. And they bring up the pier, which is this peculiar anti-tank weapon they had, and they try and blow it up, and they can't do it, and the tank just drives on and carries on.

And it's roughly right, given the accounts. Roughly fits what happened, roughly. But the tank's wrong. And it's a leopard mark one from the 1960s. It's not a tiger tank or a panther tank, which is what is supposed to be in the accounts. And my father, when I was out... How did you know that? How do I know that?

Well, because I'm in the cinema when I'm eight years old, and my father is watching this film and he's been controlling himself the whole time with all the mistakes and he finally, it's like the fourth wall break he turns to me and goes, it's the wrong tank! It's a leopard one!

No! Like that. And so I can't watch that film anymore because every time that tank comes over the original oh, there we go, they're game over, they've got it wrong again, you know, and I'm almost willing them to get it right each time might see it. But it's the wrong tank and once you start,

once that infects you, It'd be like watching a movie about cricket. Yes. And the things, the truncation. That old bodyline series, perhaps. When you had actors trying to be Harold Law would and running in a bowling, it looked horrible. Exactly.

And the truncations needed to tell a story. And you'll leave someone out. They'll put someone in or they're amalgamated bunch of characters. And they say that's an offspin and it isn't. And in the commentary. I mean, there was that film last year about Hunt and Louda Rush, which was pretty good. But if you watch a lot of Formula One, it wasn't.

And so I've ended up, and I did a history degree, so I'm very fascinated by history. So I end up with this problem with historical films and war movies and it's a proper problem. In fact, I have to not watch them and have to avoid them. But at the moment, all the World War I business, I mean, are you interested in that? Yes, fascinated by it. Yeah, it's very, it's interesting. I mean, the sheer weight of it is quite, the sheer amount of it is quite interesting. And I think other things are going to get drowned out too. I mean, but it is fascinating, and it's only 100 years ago.

It's really not very long ago. If you look at things in a big sweep, it's really very recent. Yes. And it does seem like an age. And yet it seems like an age ago. And I think the thing that's really striking me as well at the moment is the Second World War is 70 years ago, which is an awful long time ago actually. But that somehow culturally seems much closer to us and seems much more recent and fresher.

And a thing that people draw on more still in the way that they can't. of don't want to with the first one war and I think that culturally that's quite interesting and and you know here we are playing a Commonwealth sport aren't we you know and a post-imperial sport and this is a you know you could see England India as a post-imperial moment and part of our legacy from those two wars even yes or something like that well I mean well indeed I mean cricket changed hugely as a result of the second world all amateurs and professionals that was a big beginning of the end of all of that yeah yeah society changes and it it runs off into

Yeah, and the game moves on and, yeah, and altars. So, yeah, so I'm, so my, but it's my father in a cinema and Luton with a leopard one tank coming over the bridge. I do not make an embarrassment. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But then I made my children watch it and sat there sort of, you know, gripping the furniture. Oh, God, here comes that tank again. I can't bear it.

I heard you mutter something about the DRS. Is that something you like the technology? Well, we just, a moment ago we said the game moves on and the game changed. And I think it could be time for that to catch up. I think DRS has been a fantastic addition to the sport and it's something that I don't understand the resistance to it really. Because obviously the swings aroundabouts work even with DRS. But you see, your alter ego would.

Because you've made a change. The unpassed decision is final. Yeah, the unpast decision is final, absolutely. He would hate it. Yeah, absolutely. He'll be railing against the DRS. And yeah, he would. be really. And he wouldn't like your pink shirt either, Agass.

Well, I was going to ask you, actually, if I was to sit the front row of your show, would you just say, what's your name and say, Jonathan? Oh, well, then that's, well, we're a beautiful British name, but the problem is that that's John with an extension, isn't it? That's like you've got tickets on yourself. If you're adding a thorn on the end of a John, it's like you think you're special, Agass. That's what that means. But what if I then say, what do you, I say, cricket commentator? Oh, well, then I'm afraid the next two hours of the show would revolve around you.

It's been demolished. You haven't had one yet, I suppose, in front row. No, no, no, it hasn't happened yet. No, no. It's always time. No, you've got a great afternoon. I mean, you know, with England, you know, as a cricket enthusiast, I'm about to cricket for a minute.

Have you been disappointed with what's happened? I mean, I say, you started it. No, it's been a return to the old days, isn't it? It's been retro. We've got a conservative government, an England cricket team that gets stuck. I mean, what else do you want? Yeah. But it's sport, though, isn't it?

It's sports. It's sports ups and downs and lots of the thing. And one of my very best friends has come with me today, who's an Australian fellow, who has been enjoying greatly our recent run of form. So I thought I'd bring in here today to show him how it's done. Yeah. Well, we're not particularly pleased of brought an Australian.

Well, yeah, but he's behaving himself so far. He's well-strained. Well, we'll take it around for a bit of a traits around the commentary boxes, because some of your old heroes are also here. I mean, you'd be an Ian Botham mad, with you, and a David Gowl. Oh, well, that's, yeah, or that vintage. And, I mean, interestingly enough, the Shane Warnstand. Yes.

Which I expect is where there's the, is the pie shop in there? Oh, several. Oh, there would be a traditional pub or two in there. I mean, what is a traditional pub for you? It's sticky floors, saloon doors. Oh, is it? A circular flies over the pool table. Two retired regulars who are making that half of mild last all afternoon.

Two students drinking cider, four other assorted scyvers. fight on a Friday night and a glass of white wine for the lady. Glass of white for the lady. What else do you want? They still exist, those pubs? Well, I don't think they do. I mean, that's actually the thing is that as the act has developed, I mean, he used to, the pub landlord about 10 years ago,

was particularly agitated about Irish theme pubs, and they've gone. They've sort of shuffled off. And his real problem right now is pulled pork. How can pulled pork be traditional if we only first heard of it two years ago? artisan, bakeries. What is an artisan? Has anyone ever actually met an artisan?

And gluten. Right. He's puzzled by the existence of gluten. Right. He'd never heard of it until last year. What are gastro pubs? How do you feel on that? No, well, the word gastro belongs in front of the word enteritis, not the word pub.

Right, so that's, that answers that. Because, Ashley, the more you keep doing this, in, I mean, it's, it is sad. I mean, you know, coming from rural, places. Yeah, I'm sure. There's city pubs too. Yeah, but they're closing. Yeah, well because I think, you know, there's that business of them, I think in cities in particular, then

suddenly being real estate, suddenly being a, having a property value rather than possibly a social value. And I mean a half empty pub is half full, I think, you know, and even a cricket ground with not many people are. That's still an important thing. You know, that fifth day of a test match

is like a half empty pub. It still has to happen. Yes. These places have to exist so people can come together. And I, with the pub landlord, I went for being sort of phony nostalgia about all that sort of thing. And now, actually, I'm fairly nostalgic for it. I like places you can get in out of the rain and, and there's no one in there. No.

They do play a key part. I mean, our little village, you know, the pubs? Yeah. What it's all about? It's the nerve centre. Do you still have a post office? No. No, they obviously.

Well, we have a couple, to be fair, a couple of hours a day sort of show. Well, in Ireland, of course, they sell stamps in the pub, don't they? And that sort of saves you one trip at least. I'll still love to know what you said to some of those players. The KP one, I guess, is off limits. I can't remember. But there was a lot of stuff about Australians folding under pressure. I'll have to confess.

I misjudge them. Well, will you come back and tell us about it when you found it? Yes, I will. I'll take it up. I'll go through the archive. I find it. I think we need to know. Al, it's been lovely to have met you.

Oh, a real pleasure. And look how quickly it goes. I was already coming out. Yeah, yeah. So enjoy a day. I hope Willow enjoys her first live day of Tuscry. Yeah, yeah. Well, she's loving it so far.

Yeah. Good man. And good luck on your two hours. Sort of those dates. Yes. How do you do so many night after night after night? Well, how much do you like service station sandwiches, Angus? Not a lot.

Yeah. Yeah, there I see. You've just had a glimpse into my soul. Yeah. Do try and get home after most. I try, I do try to get home. Yeah. But, but, you know, another town, another show.

And there's nothing I love more than the theatre. Oh, boy. But it's hard to keep going on the road. Yeah, but I can't do anything else. You know, I've painted myself into a corner here, haven't I? And then I blagged my way into the cricket. Yeah. And those are the sweetmeats.

You've lost England in the Ashes? Well, I'm not sure Al could be held entirely responsible for the result in that Ashes series. Was that lovely half hour, Al Murray continues to tour and delighted audiences and even stood as the pub landlord for election in 2015, but he didn't win the seat. So let's enjoy a taste of another classic view for the boundary

you can find on BBC Sounds. It's the former England and Manchester United Star, Gary Neville. When I think of my childhood, I think West Indies must have about 15 slips in my childhood. When you're watching in the 80s. You just think of Marshall and Garner coming into ball and you just think of all those slips. Or you see warm ball and everyone's round the bat.

And it's intimidating. It's intimidating. It's a unique experience. Chattering away. Yeah, just chipping away at you. And football doesn't have that. Even in the big stuff, when you're playing Liverpool, isn't that stuff between the players? There is a bit, there is a bit, and a few of us were a little bit chippy at times, and I was one of them, but not all the time. You wouldn't go out in a game to think I'm going to just disturb him, I'm going to say something to him,

unless you felt there was a point in the game that you could gain an advantage. But I think in cricket, you definitely would go out with that intention to try and intimidate the batsman and to affect him. Look at this picture of it, given here. Do you remember this? Yes, I do remember. You're Matthew Hayden? I don't pay, oh, it's the Bury Times. You're featured in the Bury Times.

It's my colour photo with Matthew Hayden. Two-ton route to cup final. Yeah. There we go, Green Mount. What did it say here? They massed 278 for two against Astley Bridges. Thanks to two individual hundreds. Gary Neville, comma, an apprentice footballer with Manchester United,

strolled to the middle to join 21-year-old Australian professional. Matthew Hayden, there you go. It's all there's recording. If you've got that to me, it's a cutting. Yes, it was the best moment. Forget all the England stuff, Gary. Forget all the Manchester United medals. It's their stuff like that special, isn't it?

It was the best moment in my cricket career, but also it finished my cricket because it just mentions there that I was an apprentice at Manchester United. And my youth team coach actually didn't realise that I'd carried on playing cricket in the summer. So he got in trouble. So he basically said, what's this, what you're doing? You've got to stop, you're not insured and all the rest of it. So that was actually, probably I would say, my last game of cricket. I actually played in the final.

against Bradshaw, we lost, unfortunately. But I actually played one more game of cricket after that. It's great you can remember all these games. I mean, for all the stuff that you've done, all the football that you've had since, you still remember playing in these games? I remember everything. I really do.

I remember as an under 13, Lancashire, under 13 player, being left out partway through the season and the upset and disappointment that that caused me at the time. I remember getting back in the year after at under 14 level, and I then remember being quite prominent in the under 15s. remember all the individual experiences not walking for my school team on the 49 you know Nick won't behind and thought it's been unpopular with me that Gary yes I know but I didn't do it and I think that to me yeah I didn't walk and it was selfish it was

selfish and it was a way in which to say I didn't walk it wouldn't be something that I don't I don't think my grandparents would have been proud of me for not walking because they used to come watch me all the time but I wanted to win and that's why I've got sympathy now for somebody who's out there in that middle and desperately they've fought all the career to get into the middle and all of a sudden that moment comes and it's through disappointment sometimes through that wanting to win

I know you should always say sportsmen should think more and they should pay more attention and the responsibility that they have but sometimes you can't help but getting caught up in the actual event and the game and the moment that you're in as a sportsman. If you want to hear the rest of that interview you can find it along with dozens of others on BBC Sounds.

BBC Sounds In 2017, a huge news story brought me back to my hometown of Huddersfield. A man has been shot dead by police. I want to know why he was killed. I'm Rabinazar, and what I uncovered was gang violence, money laundering and drugs. There's been another incident.

Sounds like something out of the godfather. Hometown, listen on the BBC Sounds app. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcast. podcasts.