Test Match Special - #40from40: Ben Travers

Episode Date: March 30, 2020

Brian Johnston chats to playwright Ben Travers in the very first View from the Boundary interview. Look out for memories of watching WG Grace amongst and many extraordinary tales.

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Hello, Jonathan Agnew here to welcome you to a very special series of classic View from the Boundary interviews as we celebrate 40 years of this iconic radio feature. The concept of a consistent view from the boundary feature came about after the first celebrity interview had taken place. Then producer Peter Baxter was walking to broadcasting house from St. Pancras Station when the name came to him and it's stuck ever since. As we launch our series on BBC Sounds, it only seems right that we include that very first interview

and what a remarkable discussion it is. Ben Travers isn't a name that will necessarily be familiar to all listeners, but for the majority of the 20th century, he was one of the most prolific and acclaimed writers for both stage and screen this country has produced. We'll hear plenty more about his career, but it's his cricketing memories that really stand out. Born in 1886, Travers was 93 when he climbed to the old Lord's commentary box in 1980. He began by telling Brian Johnston about the first first-class game he'd watched. Well, the first test match, I think it was the first class of the first class match I saw. The first test match I saw was at the Oval in 1896.

I was nine years old. And my father took me. It was three-day matches, of course, in those days. It started on a Thursday and it rained most of the Thursday. They didn't start until after tea and WG Grace and F.S. Jackson

opened for England, followed by Ranji. Ranjit's ginger. Rather, it chose the crowds were still enthusiastic in those. I remember when Ranji came into bat they started singing. I think he only made seven. It was a very low score.

match. And that was my... What did W.G make? Do you remember? 24. Court Trot Bull Giffin. And he was out first and then Jackson played very good enough. England won an adventure. It was Bowler's wicked.

And that was... And then later I saw WG when he left Augusta, he started London County, the Crystal Palace. Think of his own club of his own He used to get all the first-class cricketers to come and play for him

on their days off against the Countess and that sort of thing. And there I saw him make a hundred with Ranji the other end making another hundred, a very fine partnership. And then I saw him again, the Hastings Festival. Oh, and I saw WG in one of the only two matches in which he played with Jack Hobbs. or which Jack Hobbs played with him if he used to take the London county team to the Oval

right to the beginning of the season this was Jack Hobbs first play I saw Jack Hobbs play his first inings in first class cricket made 80 on I must tell you a bit more about WG Well I want to ask what would he like as a man oh well of course

he was a big thing about WG in his time was he was the great predominant figure of cricket, more so, I think, than any other individual since his time. He had a rather odd stance in that he cocked his left toe up. He had his left heel on the ground, cocked his toe up and stood, and he also, in those days, stood and awaited. the delivery of the ball when the bowler was half well

through his run, fast bowler with his bat off the ground and that has some comments have been made in recent years about modern bassman who'd done that Tony Gregg and Amos and Brearley and so

and Gooch that was now but he started that or he did it in his day did you hear him talk yes he had he had a Like another very large man, G.K. Chesterton, he had a curiously, a falsetto voice coming out of so huge a frame. He was also, incidentally, you know, he was a practicing doctor.

My mother was born and brought up in Clifton, and W.G. Grace was their family doctor. None of them lived very long. Oh, except one who... Well, he was always playing cricketing. No, she became on that. Did you ever see him disagree with an umpire? I mean, he's got this repudence. Disagree.

When he made his hundred, he, well, I saw him make his hundred. He was caught at short leg by a pro called Brockball, a silent pro off the morning of Lockwood, for 24, 22 or something. And he made out that this was a bump ball. He hit the ball on the ground before. And he went towards Brockville,

flourishing his bat over his head. head, as if he was going to fell him. And, of course, the umpire at Peel stood there, utterly intimidated, not like what, it gave him a lot out, and he went on to make a hundred. Well, that was WG, wonderful character.

Of course, you must remember the days he lived in, quite apart from cricket conditions. You must remember WG never saw an aeroplane. WG never saw an aeroplane. I mean, she never saw any type of motion picture. They were very... How did they arrive at the ground in those days?

Well, I should think some of the professionals probably were on bicycles and tricycles, and certainly horse-room carriages. Handsome cabs were the stuff. Yes, but handsome cabs not so much outside London. They were sort of a motor vehicle. Then I must say, if I may, that your performance in scaling these stairs to the commentary box which flaw me, and I've done for three seasons, I think it was a prodigious effort,

arrived in full puff too. Well, I don't take more exercise than I can help. I take immense amount of mental exercise, perpetual mental exercise, but not more physical exercise like that. I don't want to be unkind, but I think I'm rather... like some of the English batsmen. I take a lot of mental exercise, but not much physical exercise.

Are you brutal exercise? Are you broody at the moment? Are you writing a... I'm always doing it. I'm writing my latest. Oh, yes, I've got two or three waiting. However, we don't want to talk about cricket. I do, I do. But what a wonderful life it must have been before the First World War, a life of...

What about Jessop? Would you like to tell you about that? I love it. Because I think I must be rather unique. I can't be many people about now who saw Jessop's classic 104. The Oval in 1902? The Oval in 1902.

Took it out of my mouth. And, oh, it was a wonderful occasion. That was a very interesting test match. The Australians had already won the Ashes. And this was the last test match at the Oval. and in the last innings it wasn't particularly bad wicked I don't think but there was a bowler there called Saunders

a left arm fastish sustainable sort of predecessor of Davidson though he wasn't as good a baller as Davidson a few people were I think and at the second innings England had to make 263 to win and the first four bats were on the English side

were McLaren, LCH Pallaret, J.T. Tilsley and Tom Hayward and Saunders got them all four out for respectively 2, 6, 0 and 7 and this was just about F.S. Jackson then went in and stayed there, pretty good, but this was just about the luncheon interval last day. And these four wickets were all down, all to Saunders.

The other end, old Hugh Tramble was bowling. He'd had eight wickets, 64, in the first inning. So he was a menace. And some, I remember, sitting on the right of the pavilion. And old, or rather elderly, members, left the ground disgruntled. They couldn't bear to see England so humiliated. Well, Brombe came in with Jackson Laplace was immediately out for two, and in came G.L. Jessup.

Jackson, well, up a wonderful, the presidency performance, but most sensible innings. At the other end, Jessop went absolutely crazy. He, this many Saunders had already dismissed all our salmatsmen. Joseph hit him for four falls. A huge trouble was bowing the other end. Joseph hit him onto the awning in the pavilion. The ball came back, he hit him there again, the next ball. And so he went on.

And in those days, the enthusiasm was... Of course, England had utterly no chance at all. But hadn't they? They, this thing began to dawn, this paint up with this man going crazy. And in those days, the Bota Hat was the fashion. Everybody wore a boater hat. And I remember when Joseph made his century, stayed citizens in the... Removed their bowler hats and threw them like boomerangs into the earth.

Unlike boomerangs, they didn't return to the only. A severe loss in those, a great sacrifice. They must have cost at least three shillings a time. Oh, a wonderful sight. And, of course, the most threatening thing of all, the finish of that, because when he was out and Rhodes came in to join her, as they wanted 15 runs for the last wicket. one of the most tanny bit of bowling

they made them gradually and threw up to the score was a tie and huge trumbull from the pavilion end would bowled right through the evenings 263 both 31 over there and he had a chap called Duff a very good opening Australian batsman

He had him deep long on, on the right of the pavilion at the Oval. What later always became known as Sandham's Corner, because Andy Sandham used to say. And he served Wilfrid Rhodes up with a slow half volley on the next time. Almost any bachelor, anybody in the world would have said, Ah, here we are, crack, wallop, hid it into the air and get caught by that. Not a bit of it. Wilfred Rhodes

gently tapped it past square leg and ran the one run and there to be there. You've made a lot of tours of Australia, haven't you? Yes, I've been to Australia several times.

I was there very luckily in 1928, 29, when Bradman first, I saw Bradman place his first innings at Brisbane.

Yes. And against England, English bowling, that is. And, of course, a wonderful side, England had probably one of the best day ever, Percy Chapman was there, and Jardine's taking, making his first tour, Farmer White. Those were the three amateurs, the days of amateur and professionals, and Jack Hobbes, Suckliff, who made the greatest. I always say, Brian, that I think the greatest innings I ever saw the cricket, the test match, anyhow.

was an innings played by Jack Hobbs at Melbourne at the last days of 1928 was a test match, a third test match at Melbourne. And Jack Hobbs made 49. And I think that 49 was the greatest innings ever. It had a terrific... Of course, the wickets weren't covered in those days. The mercy of the elements.

And there had a tremendous thunderstorm on night before. and the Australian sound came out next morning and fairly big to the wicket and Australia had two or three wiggins to lose Farmer white polished them all in a couple of overs and Jack Hobbs said I'm afraid we should

this was lunch at the start with late and Jack Hobbs said I'm afraid we'll all be out by tea time and at the end Tietam he had Suclip was still there. And that was the worst, that must have been

the most, the worst batting wicked. Anybody could ever conceive. I went and saw it at the end of play. It was like concrete with great lumps and holes in it. It's utterly terrible. What about the best batsman?

Have you ever worked out who you think the best batsman have ever seen the best bowler? There are two kinds of batsmen, aren't there? Surely. There's the batsman who says, I'm going to slaughter to you and the batsman who says, you can't get me out. I think the greatest slaughterer, I ever saw, undoubtedly Don Bradman, the greatest you can't get me out of was Jack Hobbs.

And, of course, there were others like that. It's the approach to the game, not merely the execution, but the mental approach to the game. I think, you can't get me out as, of course, they can't. make to play excellent scoring innings past in and circumstances arise but there are sort of a general

attitude to it Hutton Woodpour Bill Lorry you remember John you remember Bill Lurie a boycott and then of course

on the other slaughterers there are many well we had one yesterday it's hard to believe watching that innings yesterday that there could ever be a better slaughter of cricket but I think Dun Bradman must have been tops and of course the greatest all-round I saw Gary Sobers, I don't suppose of much argument about that

No, not all. Bowers? Well, the traditional greatest burly is Sydney Barnes I suppose the Australians would put in a case for O'Reilly and we had some all these very good medium bowlers Morris Tate, Alex Denzer well it's awfully hard to say

of course the greatest classic bowling performances like Lakers and Verities at Lords at 1934 they've got 15 wickets I love and detract from the brilliance of their

performance, but surely they were done under circumstances which helped the bowler. Absolutely straightforward. I suppose it doesn't, hasn't stopped improving altogether, I hope, cricket. This garden is a pretty good bowler, isn't he? He's pretty useful, yes, and of course the fielding is better now, isn't it, until it's ever been before? It's a story thing, John. The fielding compared now, of course, that isn't one thing about this one day game, which I don't think was cricket at all apart from being awfully good fun and entertainment

and you and Jim Laker between you managed to make it very interesting, exciting on Sundays but fielding and throwing you know in the old days I'm talking about the race Jessica day

until quite a long time after throwing to the wicket always used to be on the long hop people didn't throw to the weed keeper. And now, some of them return, you see Lever and people

that return the ball you see some quite good ones this morning. It's a delight. I love watching fielding. That's one of my

things. You use the word watching. Did you ever play, Ben? Were you any good? Oh, no, no. No, no.

But's too small. Oh, no. I love, I think Percy Chapman was the greatest all-round field, I don't think.

There have been so awfully good come. Do you remember before Randle, Do you remember that chap bland? Well, Clive Lloyd went in a little bit, a year or two ago. Phil Sharp was the best slip cash-wise.

What about Jack Hobbs at cover? Offly good, awfully good. So was Jessup. Hobbs, wasn't all that good when he started. He taught himself to be a great cover. Very good return for the mother. Yeah, he was very good. But to go back to Matty for a moment,

I think I've always pleased but, mind you're a spectator I don't in a moment pretend to be an expert or connoisseur secretly, like all cricket as I secretly think I am myself but I never tell anybody but elegance

I loved elegance in bad the most graceful, elegant batsman I ever saw was Alan Kippex to watch it was absolute joy, his movement. And we've had a calm graveness. Do you see Trumper?

Oh, yes. How great was he? He was great, but he wasn't all that graceful. He was supposed to be very, he wasn't. He had an extraordinary stance with his right knee bent in front of him.

He was, of course, terrific. When I saw Bradman play his first eddings and he made him at Sidney, and Sidney in 1928 and he made a glorious cover drive

and an excited member in the Australian stand jumped up and said Trumper blasphemy Did you think then that Bradman was going to be the great player

did you think when you saw him then? Well yes we'd been told beforehand there were two chaps who were up and coming great cricketers Archie Jackson

and Don Bradman of course poor Archie Jackson would have been I think. But he had that consumption. Died young. But, oh, Bradman. Yes, he was terrific. Do you like watching wikikeepers?

Who do rate as a great wiki-keepers? The greatest week-kib I ever saw... Oh, of course, I think Alan Nott. Bertie O'Field, my younger days, always supposed to be the best. And then he was superseded by Evans and now Alan Hott. But it was a very strange week-kiver

in my younger days. who's still going strong, not weed-keeping still, but still going strong. You know him, Howard Levitt, Hopper Levitt. He used to stand up for France Bowler. Of course, he couldn't do it today, unless he wore a pair of stills. That could rather handicapped with weed-keeping ice things. But he was an amazing chance. Oh, yes, there was some...

Just one more question, Ben, if we can. You wrote one farce about cricket called a bit of fash. A bit of a test, yes. I did that really. It was often expected to appeal to a very large public. It was after Douglas Jardine's tour with Loudwood and the bodyline row. And it was a sort of skit of man. What was Ray Flynn? Was he Captain of England? No, I'm Fred Robinson Hare.

He went in first with Rayford. Yes. And Tom Wals? What was he, the villain? No, Tom Wals merely produced, I think. I don't think he kept asking it. I used to have a great fun with Robertson and Cruising. You know, Robertson Glasgow, dear old Crohnardt. Oh, what fun, you know. But then, you know.

When he was taking me, doing, picking a world team of those you would like, of world's history, you would like to see playing cricket, playing in a test match. I had a wonderful opening pair, Beethoven and John the Baptist. Look, on that note, Ben, we've got to... And then we had Attila. hum, am being the fast-bowl, and talk for Marder, the spinner, and took glory some powers, Judge Jeffries and Pontius Spiler. Well, on that note, we've got to stop, Ben.

I've got a magnificent choice, and we've had 25 minutes of absolute magic, and I tell you what, if it's raining at a test match, can we ring you up at your flat and say, come round at once and entertainers? Yes, as long as you don't come round to my flat, I would not move. Thank you for some many delights. father and the great cricket lover. Thank you very much, Ben. Extraordy memories from Ben, who sadly

died later that year at the age of 94. There's so much to look forward to from the archives. Let's get a taster of another real classic, the James Bond director, Sir Sam Mendes. I would say it was a good schoolboy cricketer. I loved it. It was the thing I was best at at school. I wasn't academically very strong at school, and it gave me a kind of identity at school

in the way that often being good at one particular sport does. captain of cricket for a couple of years, the last two years I was at school, I played Oxfordshire Colts, you know, so I was a decent schoolboy cricketer and certainly as an off-break bowler which I was took a lot of wickets. I think if you're a decent spinner at schoolboy level I think you'd take a lot of wickets. Whole straight, whole full, hit the wickets. And just I got a lot of people caught at mid-off and mid-on but that kind of disappeared when I went to Cambridge I went determined to play cricket and then discovered theatre

parties, girls, et cetera, and I got slightly distracted, and I never really was any good. But then there was a brief flourish. I have to say about 15 years ago, I started playing quite regularly across a couple of summers for my local village team, for Shepton Under Witchwood. And we got to the final of the village knockout. And because the very first at Lords, this was, because my very first visit to Lords had been for that weirdly, that's amazing thing. It felt like everything had come full circle.

And from that moment, it felt like I'd sort of. come to the end of my intense playing days. And now I play maybe four or five times or summer if I'm lucky. But you played in the file, didn't you? I did. What was your memories of that? In the dressing room?

I mean, it's a proper match here, isn't it? Great tradition. The England dressing room, which was a great thrill. But unfortunately, it was, of all things, the day that Princess Diana died. And it was one of the strangest and saddest days, well, I can remember. It was very overcast.

And I think if we'd been playing a day later, they would have cancelled the game, but they didn't really know what to do. So the whole day was played under this terrible cloud. So it was quite a strange occasion. And we lost, which was sad. But I think people weren't really understandably focused on the game. No. But you chose your spot in England dressing room?

I remember walking in there? Oh, yes. By the window. I went to give by the window. But it's amazing to be in there, isn't it? Don't you think you feel... Yeah. You can't help but feel the tradition of the game

when you're in that laws with it. Yeah, and it's very difficult to describe to those who don't love the game and also those who don't understand the very subtle differences between grounds. Why this place feels slightly different. When I was a schoolboy, I came a couple of times on my own. I must have been 12 or 13. And to county games, you know, I used to come during the course of the summer. And I remember sneaking into the old grandstand

and climbing over the metal railings that led to the boxes and spending a whole day alone in a grandstand box watching. And I remember it quite clearly. It was Middlesex Worcestershire, and it was the Glenn Turner era of Worcestershire. And he was batting beautifully. And, you know, he made a century that day. And I just remember sitting alone and watching it

and being absolutely perfectly happy. And it's a real golden memory of my childhood. So to come back to the ground that has that personal significance, on top of which the historical significance, really it always gives me. me through. Well, that full interview, along with so many others, will be shortly available to download. To make sure you don't miss a thing, just hit the subscribe button on BBC Sounds. The TMS podcast. Classic View from the Boundary.

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