Test Match Special - #40from40: Brian Johnston CBE

Episode Date: June 11, 2020

Brian Johnston has the tables turned and becomes the interviewee on the occasion of his 80th birthday in 1992.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible. Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimeters and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at landrover.ca. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Classic. on the TMS podcast.

Hello, welcome along to the Test Match Special podcast. I'm Jonathan Agnew, and he may have listened to an episode earlier in this series where I was surprised by Sir Michael Parkinson and interviewed myself to celebrate 25 years of Test Match Special. Well, that wasn't the first time such a trick has been pulled. This episode, from our 40 from 40 series, sees Brian Johnston, the King Prankster himself, given a shock on the occasion of his 80th birthday. 1992. Producer Peter Baxter needs to find someone who would be a believable guest for Johners to

interview, but who could also turn the tables and ask the questions instead. So step forward, the broadcaster Ned Sherin, a guest Brian had long wanted to speak to. Well, unknown to Johners, the studio in London was also in on the game and handed back to Lords for a mighty surprise. We're turning the tables on you today, Brian. This is, this, today, this is your boundary. What are you doing to me? You're being interviewed. I am not. I don't believe this.

Absolutely true. Aren't you going to be 80 on Wednesday? Haven't we been hearing about that all week? That's right. I was going to ask you a few questions. How do I fill sort of half an hour talking to you? Because you must, I mean, you've done 46 years. You've ever counted up the number of hours that you've rambled on up here?

Rambles ago. Yeah, because I didn't ramble quite so many words, of course, the first 24 years, because I did the telly. You see, and one was then meant only to speak when you could add the picture. which if you watch very close, you needn't speak at all, really. That was our first thing we were told about television commentary. Your first cricket team was Temple Grove, wasn't it, where you played with Douglas Barter, I gather.

He was very popular because he was a brilliant cricketer, and every Saturday he used to get a hundred against schools like St Andrews and Anthony's and all that, and we used to get some off-prep every time he got a hundred. It was before the legs went, presumably. Well, that was right, and he was a marvellous rugby player, too, so he'd have played for England at both, I think I'm sure he would have. Then there was a terrible irony of your... or a terrible injustice of your

Eton career not being crowned with the wicket keeping for the first evening. I don't about injustice, but a chap did stay on a little bit longer. He was 19 and a half, I think, and I kept in the second 11, and as usual, I had probably more fun doing that. And the trouble was, when he came here,

we had two very fast bowlers called Page and Hambry, and if you look up in the record of 1931, he let 35 buys. Well, goodness knows how many I'd have let. So that I had a quiet chuckle. He was a very nice chap, and we were friends. And you had the sympathy of a great cricketer at the time, George Hurst, didn't you? George Hurst was the coach there, and one of the most lovable characters you could ever think of.

And he took me under his wing, partly because just previously to the Lord's match, I'd stumped someone down the leg side of him. He was a little round ball of a man, then used to bowl, left arm, around the wicket sort of in-swingers. And I actually whipped off the furnishes, and so he rather liked me. And he took me all round lords when I came up here, took me up the scorebox, and introduced me to everybody umpires me. So he was a lovely man. The early hero was Patsy Hendren.

Patsy, I became a hero of his, my brother threw me a cricket bat when I was age seven and said, you're Patsy Hendron, I'm Jack Hearn. And I worshipped him from that moment, and I used to get the times before my father could get it and put it on the floor

and look at all the cricket scores. And I then read in a paper one day, an advertisement said, why not take Wynkarnis wine like E. Patsy Hendron of 26 Cairn Avenue, Ealing, London, W5. Well, who should give an address nowadays, like I imagine

Ian Bowen doing it. Yeah, I did. wrote to him, said, please, Mr. Hendon, and have an autograph. And he wrote back, and said, just, he didn't say anything, just three little autograph. And the only thing about that is the effect he's had on my life, that Patsy, he never crossed the T. And when he wrote Hendren, under the end, at the end of Hendon, there are two little lines. And when I saw

my autograph now, it's Johnston, without a cross T, two little lines. So he had a great effect. What about this trick, which has never been done on radio before, I gather, and I shall have to describe it, the ability to tuck your right ear, Take the headphones. Yeah, take the headphones off. They're quite useful.

Well, I used to be able to tuck both in, and I think only one stays in. I have done this on Derek Nimmo show and on Parkinson. The top part of the lobe is going in. The lobe is going in. And it'll say in this, because hot weather stays in rather longer, and then I can flip it out by going, like that. Ah, beautiful.

Bravo. First time he's been tucked in on the air. Now, I hadn't realized that you'd had a sort of distinguished career by political association. You and Neville Chamberlain were godfathers. to the same child. Right, Eric Agnes-Hum, his lordship. He made me and Neville Chamberlain,

a very nice daughter he had called Merriam. We were our joint godfathers. And I went to see him off because he went with Neville Chamber to Munich, and he was short of a shirt. He was suddenly told he was going to... He came round to William, his brother, we shared a house.

Anybody got a spare shirt, I got to go off to Munich to see Hitler. So we lit him a shirt. We went down to Heston. And they got into a tiny little aeroplane. I mean, it was sort of thing you see at a display of a display of... moths or something, all

strapped up and everything, and they got into this and went off to Munich. Most extraordinary. Prime Minister of England into Black Homburg. Always. We better move on to the actual after the war period, but is there one fragrant pre-war memory? I mean, you were shipped off to broke coffee or something in Brazil for a long time. Were you captain of the Brazilian

national side then? No, I didn't. I went to study the coffee bean. I didn't learn much about it. There's an awful lot of coffee beans in Brazil, but I did play cricket out there on the mat, and what I and in Rail Triumph was when an American cruiser came in and we took them on a softball, which is equivalent to baseball and I think the ball's slightly bigger.

And I scored a home run because they have no mid-off at baseball and I hit the ball through one mid-off, and I got a home run. Back here in England after the war, 46, you joined the BBC. Was that a chapter of accidents or a chapter of luck? A chapter of luck, because when I was in the Grenadiers of the war, Winford Vaughn Thomas and Stuart McPherson came down to brush up on their war reporting in Norfolk before they went across normally and I happened to

they came and had supper in a wood with us in Norfolk and I got to know them then and I thought no more about it and after war I happened to meet him at a dinner party and they said oh we're short of people at the BBC come and do a test and they stuck me out in Oxford Street and they said you ask passes by what they think of the butter ration but you ask silly questions you get silly answers but they said

not very good but at least you kept talking come and join us and I said well I really want to go into the theatre somewhere but they said no come and join us for three months and I staged 1972, and I have to retire. The television box had three distinguished names alongside yours early on, PGH

Fender, Crusoe and Aden Crawley. Robinson Glasgow, the best cricket writer ever. Absolutely, and a great humorist. He didn't quite come over on the telly so much, he had rather a sort of Palkra voice, but he was very funny and when the producer sort of said, well, give the score

for those who weren't listening when I gave it two balls a go, I mean you know, and repeated the score. And Percy Fender, indignant, because he had a nose even bigger than mine, and the chap up the line, so Mr. Fender, will you please hold the microphone nearer to you? We can't hear you. And he, nothing happened. And they said, no, we still can't hear you. Will you hold it so it's touching your nose? He said, I am. And of course, he was miles away from his mouth. And he, and he got indignant. He was talking about Haywood, how he used to wear Panama hat when he was playing for Surrey. And this was in the middle of a rather exciting hat trick, I think. And he said, stick to the cricket. passing, and he put his microphone down and said, well, he said, Clever, let him do it himself, you know. They were a bit of regular in those days. It's interesting now, the Somerset tradition of excellent cricket

writing has continued. You've got young Marx up here, and there's Roebuck doing it for the time. Yeah, but Marks has got a rotten name for Somerset. I mean, it's so short. I mean, they used to be Critchley Sammonsonsons, didn't there? Randall Johnson, yes. And wonderful names like C.C. Case. Yes, he's just before me.

Horace Hazel. Horacee. H. Anyway, we'll do that. You can ask me about Somerset when I really am your guest. We'd better stay with you. You'll have to come another time. Stay with you, stay with you for the moment.

And you, poor Pauline, you postponed your wedding simply because there was a test match. Well, it was... Move the date, Brian. Come on, admit. Well, we had to get married a bit earlier. It was a rather good thing, really, because I wanted to make sure of being here for the test match. And the colonel, her father wasn't too pleased, because I proposed to her after a week. And she gave me an answer after a month.

And then we decided we had to get married before the cricket season started. So we were married within three months. But it seems to have worked. People lived together these days, but we didn't. And it seems to have worked. Where are these tattoos that she disapproves of so much? I've only got one just on my left arm here, which is of two cross cricket bats, which I went to do for me when I was doing in town tonight.

We went down the ship, I don't know what it's called, something union, the shipbuilders union or something, down in the east end. and this chap with an little electric needle, I was interviewing. I mean, he's so nervous, and the bats don't look anything like bats, and the little ball doesn't look like a ball, but it's on my left forearm, and I can be recognised by that. We'd better examine the question, I suppose, of the gaffes. The famous one is the batsman's holding, isn't it?

Yeah, well, that's the only one. I didn't know I'd done. I got a letter from a lady who said, Mr. Chance, we do enjoy our commentaries very much, but you must be more careful. We have a lot of young people listening. Do you realize what you said the other day at the Oval, when Michael Holdings was wearing Peter Willier,

he said, welcome to the Bowler's holding, the batsman's Willie, which, and no one tell me about it at the time, so she said, you've got to be more careful, but I didn't realize I've done that. Then you got Botham into trouble with the leg over situation. Well, this is Agers' fault, you see.

We were perfectly normal last season, the Friday of the Oval Test match, bad lie to stop play, producer who bullies are like mad to say, go through the scorecard. So we went through the score. card and we got to Ian Botham, we'd hit wicked. And Agers made a very long

explanation of why he did it and couldn't quite see why he tried to hook that ball and very, very, very, very, very like me. And he said, in the end, he said, he just couldn't get his leg over. And I said, couldn't get it. I got as far as that. And then I, but I was very, I think, more professional then than I've ever been, because I went on

reading the score card for at least 30 seconds without going. And then I had to, and so I went wheezing away, but what didn't help? Peter Baxter, stupid ass, said to Agus, say something. Well, Agers was hysterical. All agons could get up was Lawrence, and he went off after saying

Lawrence, and he was laughing. But the interesting thing is, in those giggles, we've had lots in the box. We've always had a professional like Trevor Bailey or Richie Benno on television who'd take over. A person with no sense of humor, may we? No, no.

No professional, disciplinary. And we had Tony Coezy this time, who just sat silent in the thing, just listening to it all. He should have taken over and said, well, I'll go on with the talk on. But none of that So we've made it across two people. Has Mrs. Rex Alston forgiven you yet? From Southampton to Ederson,

were they playing late up there at 7 p.m. So over now for some more balls from Rex Alston. She didn't forgive me for a long time about that. Which do you prefer the cricket ones or the state occasion ones? I mean, is it apocryphal the one about there's Princess Diana going up the steps into the... No, no, no, that was right, because I was on Queen Anne's some statue for her wedding. Queen Anne's wedding no

No not Queen Anne so much of Lady Diana She was in And I was on her statue there Looking over my shoulder Coming up Lugget Hill I saw this carriage with two outriders And she said Lady Diana coming up now And her carriage will draw up and her

She'd been met by our father Earl Spencer And they'll walk up the steps into the pavilion I mean cathedral And up they went We haven't been able to trace that one actually It has been sought but nobody can find it And no one find it It's about somewhere

but it wasn't a very good one. The funeral, George the 6th, I imagine, is extant. Yes, that was unfortunately because, and it didn't, listen to know what had gone wrong, but I had been booked to do this with Richard Dimbleby, of all people. He was in St. James Street, and I was at High Park Corner, and I thought, I must get this right, and I wrote down the opening and read it to myself

as I went to sleep every night for about five, well, how much do you have before funeral, about five days or something? And I wrote down, here comes a procession, now, led by five metropolitan police and mounted, and they'd tell me they'll be on white horses, on white horses. And, of course, when the day came, I heard Richard Dimbly say, over to Brown Johnson High Park Corner, and Keith Rogers,

my producer, go ahead, Brown, good luck. I said, yes, I come as a possession now, led by five metropolitan police and mounted, and they came round the bend, and they were on black horses. Well, at least they had black and white then, so there's no point you pretending. So all I lamely said, mounted on horseback, and Keith Rogers, in this very serious occasion, said,

what else do you think they're mounted on? Camels. And that was eyes of trying to be serious. There wasn't there a time when, I think it was after Home Moss when Old Trafford and Heddingley came into play, when suddenly you were commenting on a close-up of Yardley. This was a Trent Bridge, the first time we went there when Weeks and Worrell put on 200, goodness-knows-what. And at about 4 o'clock, I remember saying, well, it was the Norman Yardin's got to do something about this. I wonder what he's thinking. Let's have a look at him, and there he was at Mid-On, and as we put the camera on him in close up,

he was scratching himself in a very unfortunate place. So I quickly said it was obviously a very ticklish problem But his wife gave you the most terrible rocket when he got back Poor Norman, what lovely chap he was There was a definite, you're a sort of precursor of Jeremy Beedle In your radio career too, weren't you? There were all those sort of practical jokes who used to play on the radio There was the restaurant gag with Cliff Mitramore

And two other commentators Yes, that was rather extraordinary To see what people's reactions were And Cliff Mitromor was a guest And was this when I was this guy the waiter. Yeah. And we sort of did things like everybody had a lovely bit of Dover's soul except for the

chap's leg we were pulling and when it put down to him there was just the backbone with just the head and the tail on and Mitch Moore was the host and said I'm quite happy with all fish and this chap said very good very good and never reacted at all and we did these things like at the railway station

at Victoria we've seen people's reactions and I had a face of a mark like a wolf. And I heard people say, look, there's a wolf there. Let's go and we must catch the train. And we said, will the people who've taken the 818 train from Platform 6, please return his needed first thing in the morning?

All these going out, it was quite funny. It was one faith in the interoperability of the British character. We had this marvellous thing where Kenneth Horne and I tried to give money away. We literally did the old thing of a pound notes. And people wouldn't you know, he was saying something about his old aunt having left him money and wanted to distribute and all that. But people just didn't take them at all.

Did you enjoy tremendously the change from commentating on the television to switching to the radio? Well, I mean, let's say that radio is a more natural medium and it is easier because you keep on editing yourself on television. But people, if you're very, very technical,

you don't really want to be told what this happens because you understand it. And if you don't understand it, you don't understand the technicality. So a television commentator in a difficult position and perhaps they prefer some of them and they like to check up

on the old jokes which they get every night and again. How did you enjoy your first trip to Australia? Because it was quite late in life. I did tell you well, yes. Ten years and you get a thing called Grace Leave in the BBC and they let you go without paying you, but they can go off for three months. So I took myself there and then the be very kind of

said, well we'll lose you a one so there. And I went out very posh, first class in a Britannia and arrived 24 hours before the test match started in Melbourne. and went there, and there was kept commentating to stop it, and they said, you've got to go on second Anna McGilvery's airplanes. And when I started, England was seven for three,

which wasn't if I could start. And at that moment, a pigeon dropped something from the rafters and that big stand at Melbourne. And that was my christening to Australia. This was the time when Benno was captain, wasn't he? And there were three bowlers who you accused of blatant chucking. I never accused them at all, but the umpire should. No, there was Meckiff, who rarely did.

He was a bit. And I remember seeing Slater, who was an off-spin, bowling in the nets. I said, what a good idea, because so often people bowl at the nets, much better to chuck at someone, because you can be more accurate. The chips said he is bowling. Slater, we didn't mind about him, but Mecky was a bit dangerous. How many tours have you done since then? How many tours have you done since then? Well, I did altogether ten tours. One I was very proud of. I was the neutral commentator for the last test matches that South Africa played when Australia went there.

I was the neutral one between Charles Fortun and Alama Guilvray. One of your favourite interviews is with Fawkes. And you had a problem by understanding how he and his wife, he spoke no French and she spoke no English, how they could... I was interviewing him on telly, and I said it's very extraordinary. Especially, your wife speaks no French and no English and you speak no French. How is it work? And he said, my dear fellow, only three things in life worth doing,

eating, drinking or making love, and you speak doing any of those, you're wasting a time, which is a good philosophy. He was a lovely chap. How about umpires? I like the story very much of the Duke of Norfolk's umpam. Well, this is the old classic. It's an old one, really, but he used to run these matches. That's never stopped you before, bro.

Never stopped. He won't ever again. I told it only about ten times last week. But he was playing a match against the Sussex Martyrts and at 11 o'clock start, quarter of 11, umpour short. So the dukes are, all right, I'll go down the castle, I get my butt on meadow, so it goes down, his shooting breaks, the labrador doors, the back goes down, goes through the green bay's door,

and there's meadows, the bust are polishing, all the copper and the silver and all that. And he says, Meadows, take your apron off and put a white coat on and come and umpah. It was one of those days, gentle drizzle, not wet enough to go off, but making the ground very slippery. And the Duke came in at number 10, and he was 110 for 80's side, and he was a non-striker, said, and the chap batting thought, well, better let him have the bowling. Push run to cover, say, come on, he race, come one. And his grace set off, and he slipped up, landed, slap in his face in the middle of the pitch,

come point, picked the ball up, put over the top of the stump, so we keep a whipped off the place, turned the square like umpire and said i said square like umpire never do was meadows the bustle i said what does he do with the master like and he drew himself up and he said his grace is not in which was rather nice that's a little classic there's a nice so is it equally uh shops oil the the bradman one when he was defending um australian umpires yeah this is a friend of mine called tom crawford was arguing with don this was during um peter may's tour where there been a very good umpire on the previous tour of Lynn Hutton's called McKinney's. He was not quite so good on this tour.

And Tom Crawford was saying, what we often say, our umpires are term. It doesn't quite apply now. But they've all been old test cricketers and they know what goes out in the middle. And he said that Don Trubber was the old people. They learn all the laws and they've never actually played first-class cricket.

And Don said, what about McKinney? He said, what about McKinney's he played for South Australia until his eyesight went and they realized what he said. We're drawing peacefully to a close, I think. Perhaps, can you pick out a special, since we're at Lords, a special Lord's memory? Well, I suppose the best one was in 1969 when Alan Ward of Derbyshire bowling his first test match. Off the fifth ball of one is over from this end, bowling to Glenn Turner, New Zealand, hit him very hard in the box, he collapses in the crease.

And the cameras pan in, and there he is lying in the crease who pretend he's been hit anywhere, except where he has a bit rude, and suddenly he gets up, so he's looking a bit pale, but very plucky, he's going on, batting. one ball left, which was absolutely true, it was. No, I was hoping for an epic cricketing memory, Brown. I wasn't hoping for another bit of sleeves. The epic, as undoubtedly

that best test match of all, 963, one of the great test matches, and Colin Cadry came out with a wrist in plaster, two balls to go, six runs to win, David Allen, and just starting the last over, we'd got shackled on out, there were two balls to go. And at that moment,

just we're about to start, and my producer said, right, hand back to New Zealand, he was on the Palace. But luckily, Kenneth Adam, who was then mad on Cricket and the director, he was listening at home, got on the telephone and once said, go back at once. In the middle of saying something about President Kennedy, they said, we've got to go back to Lords and we got the last over. And I think that was the most dramatic of a lot.

Well, wasn't Brian as good a guess as he was an interviewer. I hope the man who made view from the boundary his own would have enjoyed the many names and voices we've had on the program since his death in 1994. Of course, one of his favourite parts of the programme was the sampling of cakes from generous listeners and this year 2020 marks 50 years since the first one was sent to the programme.

Eileen Cohen of St John's Wood London started the tradition thanks to Gary Calver for getting in touch and reminding us of the anniversary. Look out for plenty more classic view from the boundary interviews. Here's one of my favourites, the rock guitarist Eric Clapton from 2008. Test cricket for me is the ideal. It's the sort of the Arthurian thing about England and just,

There's so much romanticism and drama in a test game. If you've got the weather. I mean, I really am a real stickler for good. I mean, I miss the days of my youth when summers were, you know, three or four months long. And it's always sad when games are drawn because of the weather. But to watch a good game, you know, like there's something, the strategy and the subtlety of that game, which you don't get, I think, with limited. over games. It's just

far more refined. It's funny because the appeal of that of One Day Cricket seems to reach far and wide in it. Whoever we talk to in here, whoever comes in, musicians, actors, politicians, whatever it may be, they'll always say, but Test Cricket's the one that matters. Is that a fact? Yeah. Because I know I understand the thrill

and the drama of One Day Games and in a way it makes you wonder whether they're trying to integrate it into a matter because that's the way the American market is. They can't, you know, they can't watch cricket because there's not enough commercial breaks. Well, they could be, but there's not enough. It lasts forever.

It's not fast enough. And a test game is so deliberate. And it has, but it has all of those ups and downs. You can be watching for an hour, and it looks like nothing is happening. And then in the next five minutes, all hell will break loose. You don't get that anywhere else. Do you persuade people sometimes that test cricket isn't boring? Do you find some of your mates say, pooh, how do you watch that, Eric?

Dear me, that's a test cricket. I mean, you know, all these sort of rock musicians you hang out with. I mean, it doesn't necessarily go together. Does it test cricket and rock music? Well, I don't really, I don't see myself as being a particular kind of music. I probably think I'm more of a blues musician anyway, which is, it's more to do with, it's a slower kind of medium anyway. And a little more subtle.

I'm not a pop. I'm not really a pop person. I'm not attracted to pop media. So I put, you know, one day games along with that, you know, in 2020s go. With that for me, it's all fast food. That's cricket is blues, then, is it? Test cricket, could be blue? Yeah, you could put it in the same thing.

Well, thanks so much for joining us again. Remember to keep up to date with everything from Test Match Special on BBC Sounds by hitting the subscribe button. Classic View from the Boundary with the Test Match Special team. Alan Shear and Ian Wright are in my kitchen. What's going? on here. The all new Match of the Day

Top 10 podcast answering a huge football question every week. This has not been easy, hasn't it? Like the top 10 Premier League strikers. Personally, I think it's really hard

to have Shearer anywhere near the top 10. The Match of the Day Top 10 podcast. Only available on BBC Sounds. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts.